Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals MYTHBUSTING: Will Going Under Center Really BOOST Joe Burrow Explosives?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The sky is the limit for Joe Burroughs offense, but is going under center the real answer for unlocking explosive plays? We're going to break it down in today's Locked on Bengals. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. He's Joe Goodberry. I'm Jake. Let's go together.

Starting point is 00:00:33 We've got a decade plus. sometimes two decades depending on how you're doing the math of covering the Cincinnati Bengals and we're doing it here on Locked-on Bengals today. Diving into the topic of the under center game, finding explosive plays for the Cincinnati Bengals offense. And that intricately ties into the discussion of the Bengals and under center play action game, which has been a point of emphasis in the narrative world lately. Would it be the magical silver bullet that will. would fix the explosive play issue for the Cincinnati Bengals, where we haven't seen them be one of the more explosive offenses in the league since 2021,

Starting point is 00:01:14 despite their general offensive success rate. Do you really even need to be explosive? Well, the answer to that question is to some degree, yes, being explosive in the NFL is very helpful. We'll get into all of those points today as we're discussing the idea, whether or not it is in fact a myth that the Bengals need to get under center and run play action more. We've looked at a lot of numbers for this,

Starting point is 00:01:38 and obviously we've watched the Bengals for the last five years, six years, and they are very much not at this point an under center team. They are not the Zach Taylor, Sean McVe, Rams that we thought the Bengals might be getting when they hired Zach Taylor all those years ago. There are Joe Burrow offense, and teams treat it the way that they treated the Peyton Manning offense in a lot of ways where there are some reasons that going under center might not be as beneficial as you think. So there's a lot to unpack here, Joe.

Starting point is 00:02:09 Yeah, that's right. And the first part is let's set the premise of what the myth is because whenever I talk about this offense and the potential and how to get more explosives and how to run the ball better and all of these things. And this happened actually when Joe Flacco entered the discussion midway through the year at the trade deadline and had to start, you know, his eight games or whatever it was,

Starting point is 00:02:28 that people will say the Bengals need to go on her center. That's why they can't do this, fill in the blank, protect Joe Burrow, can't get explosive plays, can't run the football. Yeah, don't disguise their offense well enough against defenses or whatever comes up that why the offense isn't as good as it potentially could be. I mean, we're talking and we'll get to it. About a very good offense that sometimes struggles in September, but how do you fix that in September?

Starting point is 00:02:54 How do you get them over the hump to be a number one, two, or three offense in every category? A lot of times the answer from people when I'm doing this online is, They have to get under center, Jake. Yeah, and it's not just the national media in this case, where previously we were talking kind of about national media myths. And there is some degree of truth to this one, too. And it depends on what the Bengals approach would be. So part of the conversation will eventually also be,

Starting point is 00:03:23 well, there could be a massive benefit to going under center. If X, Y, Z thing happens, if defenses play the Bengals differently when they go under center, if the Bengals pushed the ball downfield a little bit more when they go under center, if the Bengals were really dedicated to building out their under center package and using it as more than attack on to their offense. Like there are all these ifs that I think we can get into a little bit later on. But when you look at the last few years of how the Bengals have gone under center, what their success rate is under center, especially in the passing game,

Starting point is 00:04:00 where in the NFL most undercenter passing game is play action game at this point. You have a few guys who are going straight dropbacks every now and then. Joe Flacco did it. It was very noteworthy when Joe Flacco did it for the Cincinnati Bengals. That's a straight drop back from under center. You don't see that every day, especially if you're watching the Bengals. But the Bengals have not been a very good undercenter team in the Zach Taylor era. And Joe Burrow has not been a very good undercenter quarterback,

Starting point is 00:04:28 especially when you compare it to the lofty production that he's achieved when he's in the shock. Yeah, that's right. And why I think this gets brought up so much and why it's a focus if you're confused on that. If you look around the league, and this has been the case for a long time now, teams that utilize play action or get under center and disguise things just a little bit more, use a little more motion out of from under center. And play action is a big part of this. And it'll be a big part of our discussion today. But when you use these things, you tend to to have a higher yards per attempt. You tend to have a little bit more explosive plays.

Starting point is 00:05:02 You tend to complete more passes. And the protection tends to hold up a little bit better. Now, this is across the league, and this is a variety of quarterbacks. A lot of discussion when you hear this guy's a system quarterback. That system almost always throughout my adult life has been a Shanahan-style system where that guy is under center, they're running a lot of play action, bootlegs, giving them easy reads, easy options, and letting the players do work down the field. you know, whether you're coming out and booting and hitting a guy in the flats or hitting

Starting point is 00:05:31 the second read on a crosser or creating an explosive play down the field, even the Sam Donald offense last year when people are like, hey, look what they're doing. Through the first half of the year, their yards per attempt was crazy high. Their EPA was crazy high. A lot of it was getting under center and using play action to disguise what they're doing. That all sounds great. Let's get all of those things. Let's tick up Joe Burroughs numbers a bunch by getting under center running this play action.

Starting point is 00:05:58 A problem with that idea uniquely to Cincinnati here because they're an outlier in a lot of these numbers that we look up is that they are worse in almost all of these situations, especially when we're talking about the passing game. And Joe Burrow is worse in all of these under center. And he's not just straight dropping back. That's why I always add in play action. The under center play action game for Burrow is worse than his straight drop back game. And at some point, we're going to dig into all this. But at some point you have to question, is it worth it for this team to actually make it an effort for their offense to get under center and maybe be worse for a little bit for the benefits later? Or just I think they know what they are.

Starting point is 00:06:39 And this is why it's a myth to me that they need to do this. They know what they are. And they know if they need a drive, they're going to drop back from shotgun and let Joe Burrow do what he does best. And I think where it gets complicated is, and even Dan pitcher acknowledged as Paul Dana Jr. wrote about it for the athletic. they can pitch or talk about. You look at the splits, the teams that are most explosive are going under center and they're using play action.

Starting point is 00:07:01 The Bengals are not currently explosive. They're winning on offense in different ways. They're methodical. They're shurning efficiency. They're high in the success rate metric. They're high in the EPA per play metric. But they're not high in the explosive play metric. And like I said at the beginning of the show, you don't need to be explosive.

Starting point is 00:07:18 And I think like the 2024 Bengals are a great proof for this that you can be a very good offense, even if you're not explosive, but your points per drive skyrockets if there's an explosive play. What time is the rate? That should be obvious, right? Like you chunk off an explosive play. You're almost immediately in field goal range now with average starting field position in the NFL. But sometimes an explosive play is like a 20-yard pass when you're back on your own 20-yard line. And even on those drives, your scoring rate increases significantly.

Starting point is 00:07:52 It's just easier to put up points if you're chunking off yards because you're reducing the amount of exposure to making mistakes or getting behind the chains. And we've seen the borough offense is actually, I think, better than most when they are behind the chains because Joe Burrow is Joe Burrow. And, you know, what was it like a third and 29? They converted against the chiefs that one time. Yeah, they just laid it up. That was 2021, right? A go ball to Jomar. Maybe it's third and 27.

Starting point is 00:08:20 And you don't really get that a few times, too, just to be clear. Like, yes, that's what you're not confident in the Alex Smith archetype quarterback making that throw. That's uniquely elite quarterback stuff. Or when Joe Flacco got behind the chains last year, it's like, that's probably the end of the drive. Or go back to Andy Dalton feelings and get behind the chains. That's probably the end of the drive more often than not. Joe Burrow behind the chains, you're still at a disadvantage, but you have a little bit more going for you there. The point is that when you don't have those explosive points,

Starting point is 00:08:50 as you're likely to find yourself in those disadvantageous situations where defenses can do what they want to dictate things and you as an offense are less able to dictate because there's less available to you in the playbook. And so, yeah, the Bengals do need to get more explosive, Joe. And if going under center and going into play action isn't the way to do it, well, what is the way to do it? I think that's part of the question that we need to ask. We will dive into the play action numbers why it might not be the thing that will cure this for the Bengals and what the alternatives might be. be. And like I said, there's some really interesting quotes from Dan Pitcher, that piece from Paul Dander Jr. that I want to reference as well today. We'll continue the conversation around

Starting point is 00:09:29 how the Bengals can rediscover the explosive play. A hot topic for Dan Pitcher, for Joe Burrow, for Bengals fans coming up next. Running a business shouldn't feel like you're trying to connect a bunch of systems that were never designed to work together. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odu comes in. Odo is an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together and one powerful platform. From sales to accounting to inventory and marketing, everything works in one place and works for you, helping your team move faster, stay organized, and focus on growing the business instead of managing software. The best organizations know that

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Starting point is 00:10:35 win because operations matter, and that's why you should get O-D-O-D-O-D-com slash lockdown. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com slash lockdown. Jake, I've got some numbers here for Burrell splits between play action and dropping back, just straight dropbacks. And the play action largely is coming from under center play action. They do a lot of shotgun play action as well.

Starting point is 00:11:03 We're just going to, we looked at these, the splits between getting blitzed, and we'll bring up that because I think that draws a direct correlation from being under center. But just looking at play action numbers, just we'll start there. In his career, he completes about 65.7% of his passes with a 5.3% touchdown rate, a 2.2 interception rate.

Starting point is 00:11:24 He gets pressured on about 34% of those. attempts. It's passer rating in those in those play action scenarios, a 98.5 for his career, PFF grade is 75.5. His EPA is a 0.02 per attempt. Now, all that sounds good. If you're an average quarterback, that's just a tick above average. But Joe Burrow, just straight dropping back has a 69.7% career completion rate. He's got a 1% higher touchdown rate, a 6.1% touchdown right. He's got a lower interception rate, a 1.8 interception rate. His pressure percentage is lower when he's not using play action. 31.7% of the time. He has a 104 passer rating in his career. He has a PFF grade of 88.5 in his career. His EPA goes from a 0.02 to a 0.10 per attempt

Starting point is 00:12:17 in his career without using play action. If you look at his career from PFF, just no play action, take all the play action plays out. His grade ranking, at quarterback passing grade. 2021. First, he's the highest graded quarterback. 2022. First. 2023 has the calf.

Starting point is 00:12:33 Everything's messed up. He was 17th. 2024. First. 2025. First. He's been the best graded quarterback from PFF and the numbers when we just talk about straight dropback.

Starting point is 00:12:42 No play action. He is. That's where he is elite. And that's when the offense is at its best. And he's significantly worse on their center. And that's the tricky thing to deal with. with here. Just looking at regular season, what was his, what was the EPA number you have for him under center play action?

Starting point is 00:13:04 0.02. So I've got the Bengals EPA on under center plays in the last two years, 2024, 2025 for Joe Burrow at minus 0.33, which is fourth worst in the NFL. The only worst by those splits. The run game, I'm sorry, Jake. The run game is negative 0.124 the last two years under center per play. And yet when we look at the Chase Brown splits here in a minute, Chase Brown much better when he gets those under center opportunities. You compare that to Joe Burrow as a shotgun passer in the last few years.

Starting point is 00:13:45 He's first in success rate in the last two years under center or in the shotgun. I don't think he's first in EPA per play because you, You've got Josh Allen up there, his running game contributing there. Jared Goff is actually ahead of him, incidentally, an EPA per play. Jordan loves slightly ahead in EPA per play. This is in the last two years. So it includes the kind of weird 20, 25 for Joe Burrow. There are also very few plays for Joe Burrow under center.

Starting point is 00:14:14 So it's a small sample size. And when you see the idea that Joe Burrow can't play under center, or you have certain accounts tweeting about how, Joe Burroughs so bad when he's under center and it's not play action. And then you go look at those plays and it's actually like three plays over the course of an entire season. It's a little bit too small of a sample size there to make a judgment. One of those plays is a Christian Benfer pick six, I believe. And that's also why the EPA per play number here is what it is when you have a minus eight or nine EPA per play number on a pick six.

Starting point is 00:14:49 Because you might be expecting two points on that drive. Exactly. Instead, you give six points the other way. That's a minus eight on a single play. That's going to really skew things. But Joe Boroli is 85 plays in the last two years under center compared to 947 plays in the shotgun. So a lot more exposure in the gun, obviously, a lot less exposure under center. But do those numbers tell you that the Bengals should get under center more?

Starting point is 00:15:19 No, they don't. However, it's not as simple as just looking at what the numbers have been in the past. Because I do think there is actually a potential advantage for the Bengals to get under center. It just comes with a dedicated change to being instead of a, what would this be, like, less than 10% under center team with Joe Burrow to being a 20% undercenter team with Joe Burrow and really dedicating themselves to that in a way that they haven't in quite a while in the Joe Burrow era. And I want to bring up to the Flacco stretch of games. A lot of people attributed to that offense clicking at a high rate to look,

Starting point is 00:15:59 it's because they get under center more. They really did not, not significantly. It was a small percentage point more. If you look at Chase Brown the last two years, he had 97 carries from under center this year. He had 88 the previous year. So less a half a play carry more per game. You go back and look, when did this really change?

Starting point is 00:16:20 because another kind of narrative or myth, I will say. I just had this the other day in the comments on Twitter, and I don't disagree wholly, but it was an interesting idea. They said, well, if this Bengals version of this offense gets into the playoffs, it won't be successful because they can't get under center and can't run the ball. And I thought that's not right. Number one, Chase Brown has been really good while under center. They can run the ball from under center.

Starting point is 00:16:42 Number two, yeah, 2021. They ran the ball 275 times under center that year, the most in the Zach Taylor era. The next year, though, 2022, they got to the AFC championship game and lost by three points. It wasn't because their lack of being able to run the ball. Probably their lack of explosiveness down the field and not having that slot receiver and be able to protect Bill Burrow, of course, rather than run the ball. They went from 275 under center runs in 2021 to 143.

Starting point is 00:17:08 You know how many had Joe Mixen had that year from under center? I said Chase Brown in 97 this year. Guess what Joe Mixon had if you had to guess in 2022. Yes, 97. You were going to say it. And 32 of them happened in the first two weeks. until they made that switch. That's 30% of them, 33% of them.

Starting point is 00:17:23 So after that, they rarely got under center. And there was no problem with that offense. That offense was extremely efficient. It was lacking the explosive plays from 2021, but it was highly efficient and within a play, again, of making it to the Super Bowl. At the same time, it's this thing that, as Dan Pitcher says, it kind of smacks you in the face.

Starting point is 00:17:44 Dan Pitcher told Paul Dana, if you look at the landscape of the league right now and how defenses have evolved, if you're truly open to learning from your peers. It's not hard to make the connection. And Paul wrote that NFL teams over the last three seasons have produced 1,499 explosive completions while using under center play action. Joe Burrough is a pretty good quarterback. Surely he makes up a significant chunk of these

Starting point is 00:18:07 plays, right? Of course, Jamar Chase, T. Higgins, good offense. Joe Burrow has won over the last two years. Three seasons. Joe Burrow has one of the 1,4,400.9. 99 explosive undercenter plays that are using play action. That's another smack to the face. As Paul wrote in his article, there has to be something that the Bengals can figure out there. And Burrow has talked about we're trying to find ways to be more explosive in the run game and then get some things off of that to find the easy explosives.

Starting point is 00:18:41 It feels like every single year for the last four years, we're talking about, man, they sure are going under center a lot in training camp. They sure are going under center a lot in OTA. is a mini camp and the regular season comes along and maybe you see it a little bit on the scripted drives i wonder if we went and looked at the percentage browns last year and yeah because i just watched all the play action plays for the next bengals on the brain up film review and a lot of them came early while burrow was in the you know first two weeks and then it was like that was you know and this is a habit for i think zach taylor where like when things get real they go to

Starting point is 00:19:18 the things that they're most comfortable with i think that's pretty common for most NFL offenses, but like their scripted plays will involve more of this designer stuff, more of the under center stuff where they're doing things that they haven't necessarily put on tape a lot. And then when they're out of that part of the playbook or out of that part of the game, then they go to the things that they're more comfortable with. Well, what if they were a little bit more comfortable with some of these under center concepts so they could go to them more readily because they have them.

Starting point is 00:19:41 They've had them in the playbook. This is an offense that's been in place for forever now. Joe Burrow, go back to 2021. Did all that under center work with Joe Mixing in that 2021 run? It's not like that didn't happen. Joe Burrow still has that in the memory banks. And the offense was a lot of these players were part of that team. But the key pieces were part of that offense as well.

Starting point is 00:20:02 So they do need to find ways to rediscover the explosives. I want to talk a little bit about the Chase Brown splits, what they can do, what they can explore, what they can figure out to finish the show. We'll do that next. Support for today's episode of Lockdown Bengals comes from Square. the business platform that helps a seller become a neighborhood favorite, whether you're preparing for a busy summer season or managing everyday demands, Square will help keep your business moving with everything from payments and online orders to inventory and staff management, all in one place. So you can spend less time as a business owner or a manager managing tools and more time focusing on your customers. Square will help simplify the everyday work behind running a business.

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Starting point is 00:21:45 All right, Joe, let's talk about what the Bengals can do here. We've talked about what hasn't worked. We've talked about what works for other teams. We've talked about Dan pitcher and Joe Burrow talking about these concepts. But what do you think that? the Bengals can do here to get more explosive because clearly it's something they need to accomplish. And maybe they don't get there in the shotgun because teams are going to keep a lid on them when the Bengals are in the shotgun.

Starting point is 00:22:06 They're not going to blitz when the Bengals are in the shotgun, even when they do try to use play action to try to suck those linebackers in toward the line of scrimmage. So what do you think the answer is here? So this is where we can marry the data and the myth with what we see on film as well. And like I said, I went back and watched all of the. clips of their play action game. And the one major thing, the takeaway I came away from this was they are not affecting linebackers at the second level.

Starting point is 00:22:35 The linebackers and the defense as a whole, you're not even getting that extra safety to come down in the box. As a whole, do not believe you're running the ball number one and are not scared of it. And I think that's the bigger point of emphasis here. And it's not even that the Bengals had a bad run game last year. It was good. And Chase Brown was good from under center. We'll bring those numbers up.

Starting point is 00:22:55 It's just that if I have to choose between two things here, let you run 30 times for 150 yards and a score and put up 24 points and have time of possession, or let Joe Burrow drop back and complete 40 passes on us for 350 yards and four touchdowns, maybe five. He can do that in a game if you really allow him to do it and have Mar Chase streaking past us and gritting in the end zone and T. Higgins dunking on my best corner down 40 yards down the field. what are you going to choose? I'm going to choose let you run against me.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And defenses can't defend everything. And you see it. You watch the rest of the league and watch the rest of these passing games around the league. They treat the Bengals differently. They are scared to death of the Bengals' weapons and passing attack because it will kill you. Absolutely, not just lose the game. They will embarrass you on national television. And those highlights will we play it all week if you allow them to beat you.

Starting point is 00:23:49 So fine, Chase Brown averages 4.9 yards per carry from under center. We do not care. And it's very evident when you watch the tape. Maybe this is a running backs matter argument. Maybe it is. I remember when Seyquan Barkley was changing teams, there was some discussion about the Bengals upgrading a running back. And there's some discussion around like,

Starting point is 00:24:10 oh, maybe the Bengals should go get, you know, mid-level running back. I don't remember who it was at the time. But I was like, oh, well, if they're going to go pay a running back, might as well go pay for the top running backs. the Sequin Barclays or Christian McCaffrey. The argument to go draft Jeremiah, I love this year that my esteemed former co-host, James Rapine, loved to make.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Not that they would have had that opportunity, obviously. But when you get a player like that, maybe you can actually put the fear of God into these defenses and make them respect it. Like if you have the Bijon Robinson back there or the Jonathan Taylor back there, maybe it makes a difference. I'm not even sure it would. because the Drebbeck comparison to the Peyton Manning offenses was brought up to me when I tweeted earlier this week about the Bengals blitz rate they face in play action.

Starting point is 00:25:02 Joe Burrow gets blitz the least in play action of any quarterback in the NFL. A big part of that is that the Bengals are running most of their play action from shotgun. And overall, you see the shotgun blitz percentages for play action plays 10% lower overall for all quarterbacks and much lower for Joe Burrow. far the least blitz quarterback in shotgun play action plays, which is most of the Bengals play action work. When you look at the under center only plays for the Bengals in play action in the last couple of years, Joe Burroughs actually blitz at a relatively average rate in the mid-30s.

Starting point is 00:25:37 And there is a potential advantage there if you can block it up. And what came up and a coach texted me this when he saw the tweet was that defenses have these built-in checks to maybe we're not blitzing on this play, but when we see that the offense is under center, we have a package blitz for whatever our call is on this play, and we're going to check to that blitz when we see the offense under center, which is why you see a higher blitz rate under center, especially if the team has a big play action tendency under center. Teams are trying to blitz because hypothetically, blitzing in under center or play action play with potentially a longer developing concept, right?

Starting point is 00:26:19 Like if it is a crosser, they need to get all the way across the field before the ball gets out. Quarterback might be turning his back to the line of scrimmage. You might have fewer guys out in the route and you're going to be selling a run action. So if you time up a blitz there, hypothetically you can really disrupt those plays. And the Bengals do get that response to an average degree, at least when they go under center. So the potential advantage to me here, Joe, is if they're dedicated to running the ball, under center.

Starting point is 00:26:46 And they're not just one-dimensional when they go under center because that's been a problem for them in the past too. And they have this robust play action game built around it, which, like you said, there might be growing pains. They're willing to push the ball downfield on those plays as well. They actually did implement some of those crosser kind of concepts that you really don't see. They weren't there on tape.

Starting point is 00:27:07 In the Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow offense. If all of those things happen, you now have the confidence in this offensive line and this past protection. group, like we talked about Monday, to handle some of these blitzes. You're going to eat some negative plays when you do this, but the explosive potential is there, I think. But how much of that are you willing to take on when you know how effective you can be on a down-to-down basis in the shotgun?

Starting point is 00:27:35 Yeah, that is the tricky part of this, because you're right. You mentioned something quickly there that you don't want to go back to those first two weeks of 2022, right? and they were coming off 2021 where everything was married pretty well together. But remember, they were trying to protect Joe Burrow. They had a rookie Jamar Chase. They figured out how explosive they could be towards the second half of the year. But 2022, the reason they went straight 98% shotgun week three and into the AFC championship

Starting point is 00:28:01 game throughout is because their offense started to get segmented too far, where their run game was strictly under center and their passing game was strictly out of shotgun. And without that marriage of the playbook in between, it was. is too easy for defenses to know exactly what they're doing. And that's playing offense on the hardest mode right there. You don't want to do that again. And to avoid it, you have to throw from under center. You have to run the play action from under center. You have to run from shotgun. You have to have that balance. And I do think the last couple of years, the Bengals have had that balance. They're about 239 is what I got for under center runs and 436 shotgun runs. Maybe you can get that to 280 and 380, and that would be more of a balance in this borough offense.

Starting point is 00:28:45 But you're right. When they get into a scenario where it's like, we need a drive or we need to play here, or we need to come back, or when the defense is giving up plays at such a high rate and points at such a high rate, can they really afford to be a little bit worse on offense? And I think that's been the hard part for the last couple of years is they haven't been able to be afforded that opportunity to lean on the run game and establish it and figure out the run game and the lumps that come with it. It's why laying on the run game, those teams usually average less EPA per play, right?

Starting point is 00:29:15 Because it does result in less points. Bengals haven't been afforded to do that. If the defense is a little bit better, maybe those opportunities will come again. So how do we find the path forward then? Like, where is the happy medium? Can they find ways to be more explosive in the shotgun passing game as well? Because I think that is part of it. Joe Burrow talked about the way the defenses are reacting.

Starting point is 00:29:39 differently because they have gotten to the point where they're so good and so methodical underneath. I still don't see teams taking the ceiling off of the Bengals offense. Like they generally are still playing the Bengals receiving game, passing game when they're in the shotgun the same way. But when they're getting under center, Chase Brown also continues to face light boxes. Chase Brown faces the most, right? The most light boxes in the NFL generally does a good job with that. Paul Dainer did another great job of finding a significant split that shows Chase Brown's success rate under center. So when you look at the first half of games on early downs, as Paul Dainer Jr. did, Chase Brown is fourth in the NFL in yards per carry.

Starting point is 00:30:24 He's third in the NFL explosive run rate. He's in the middle of the pack for success rate, but he has very few tries. They're not running the ball under center in the first half of games. He's 29th in the NFL in attempts from under center. When you look at shotgun, same split, six in the NFL in running attempts. So there's your lack of balance, right? If you want to talk about that. But if you want to notch up that under center run game, they need to build a passing game as well because otherwise we're going right back to that problem of under center run, shotgun

Starting point is 00:31:00 pass, and you can't live like that either. So there needs to be both, I think, a potential small tilt toward a little bit of undercenter work. But finding that balance is really the rub here. And that is the challenge for this coaching staff, this offseason and going into 2026. And I think my last point on this in order to achieve that may be the tight end position may be the key. Because as Drew sample has gotten to be the tight end one, in terms of snaps played, and he is by far. It limits what you can do as a passing offense a little bit.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Yeah, he helps in protection. He helps you in that way. And not to be honest with you, when I watch all the running games, explosive runs on film just the other day, Drew Sample is a highlight in a lot of those. So he does good work in what he's supposed to do. But if you go back to 2021 and 2022,

Starting point is 00:31:53 CJ Ozama Hayden Hurst were more do-it-all type guys as your number one tight end. And people are probably screaming in the comments, well, Mike Aseki. He is like an 88 percent. they're throwing the ball when he's on the field last year. That is tough to have balance when that is your tight end one. He's not really.

Starting point is 00:32:08 He's a slot receiver. He's a weapon. I'm happy to have Mike Aseki. But that is also why we have talked so much about Eric All and the excitement around him. And Jack Endries, I'm going to do it for you, Jake. You don't have to do it this time. Why we're excited about the potential of these dual threat type tight ends and what it could mean for this offense.

Starting point is 00:32:26 And going back and watching Eric All's plays and how dynamic and different they were. and they got under center and did a lot of different blocking and receiving and play action off of it. Very exciting for what 2026 could be if he's healthy. Yeah, if you have that dynamic to it all tight end, it really opens up the ways that you can attack defenses. As what really stands out to me, as we've had this conversation, Joe, is just how fine a balance it will be to strike. Because you don't want to get away from what they're really good at. And what they're really good at is they have receivers that can beat most corners in the NFL every single play. They have a quarterback who will see that, who will diagnose, who will get the ball to where it's supposed to be quickly every single play.

Starting point is 00:33:06 So how much do you want to take away from that to try to rediscover the explosive? How much do you want to go away from these things that have been so consistent for you to find more explosives? Ideally, you can find that marriage and do both and maintain the success rate. Find some explosives. That's what the best offenses in the NFL do. And that's roughly what our expectations are for this Bengals team. But it's a difficult balance of strike. And it's really hard to find the exact middle ground that you should find.

Starting point is 00:33:37 But that's the job, right? And if they do, like you're starting to say, you're going to see greatest show on turf numbers, I think. Yeah, we need a new name. We need a greatest show on turf Cincinnati based name. That's your challenge in the comments for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. And that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast network, your team, every day. Until next time, thanks for listening. Hoota. And have a good one.

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