Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals owner Mike Brown OPTIMISTIC on Trey Hendrickson deal, calls Shemar Stewart drama "foolishness"

Starting point is 00:00:00 Yes, another day, another drama, but there's reason for optimism today about Trey Hendrickson's future with the Bengals. Let's break it down. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. I'm Jake Liskow, he's James Rapine, and we've been hosting this. podcast since 2016 covering your Cincinnati Bengals, bringing you the latest news and analysis,

Starting point is 00:00:41 and everything you need to know about what's going on with those Cincinnati Bengals. Today we dive into mock turtle soup. The one day a year we hear from Mike Brown. We hear from a number of Bengals coaches, Duke Tobin, and boy, was there plenty of drama. There's also some news on injured players. The Bengals signed a couple of players yesterday after we. We recorded on Sunday, and, well, there's some optimism about Trey Hendrickson. Today's episode is brought to you by Fandul, where new customers can get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins.

Starting point is 00:01:19 And James says we welcome the everydayers back in who don't miss an episode and remind people that if they're not out there getting every episode of the Locktown Bengals podcast, they can hit that subscribe button and make sure they don't miss an episode. Thank all of those out there that make us their first listen. there's a lot today at the Bengals preseason media day. Like I said, the one day a year we hear from Mike Brown. I thought Mike was pretty on it today in explaining some of the issues that they are dealing with as a front office right now. And while largely the Bengals front office deservedly doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, I thought he acquitted himself pretty well with explaining what's going on. And I think where we're going to start is it sounds like there's.

Starting point is 00:02:04 reason to be optimistic that the bridge can be or the gap can be bridged between the Bengals and Trey Hendrickson. Certainly hope so. And I thought it was noteworthy that that Mike Brown was as blunt as he was about Trey saying, I want it to get done. I think he wants it to get done. I think it will get done. We're actively working on this.

Starting point is 00:02:29 The guys in the front office are actively working on this as we speak. and this was around noon or so on Monday. And for him to come out and say that and be that direct, I think it's intriguing. It feels like there's a little, little Trey Hendrickson smoke. And by the way, there should be. You should want him to get into camp and be in camp.

Starting point is 00:02:51 And whether or not it's done by Wednesday, I'm okay with going a few days or a week, but you don't want it to really impact. things, and impact the season, an impact week one, and impact Tray's mindset, or impact the defense. And it felt like that there is, even if it hasn't felt like it all offseason, the Bengals clearly want this done. They want to pay Tray more. They want to keep them here. What does that look like? I think there's a thousand different ways it could look, honestly. There are multiple, at least, realistic ways that it could look. Is it going to be a lot?

Starting point is 00:03:32 enough for Trey we'll see but certainly some optimism and some desire i would say on mike brown's part to get it done that being said his desire might be much different than than what tray is asking for and that's what's tough it's not like he said numbers or got into the details on what the contract could look like but he certainly does want Trey here and we'll we'll see if they can find common ground and get something done i think the indicator that we'll have pretty quickly as to whether or not the negotiations are proceeding in a manner that Frey Hendrickson finds honorable, for lack of a better word, is if we hear from Trey Hendrickson in the next week or so.

Starting point is 00:04:13 In the next couple of days, if we hear Trey rebutting anything that we heard from ownership today, because that's been the pattern all offseason, right? It's like, oh, Katie said something at the owner's meetings. Trey didn't like that. Now Trey is saying something. Oh, somebody said something about training camp fines. Now we're hearing from Trey on the sideline of the offseason program. And now we're just a couple of days away from training camp and those potential fines where Duke Tobin said, our expectation is for every player under contract to be here for training camp.

Starting point is 00:04:40 So it doesn't sound like there's any wavering from the Bengals on that front. Of course, typically when players do hold out and are fine for training camp absences, those fines are reimbursed as part of whatever extension is eventually reached. And you see that all over the place when these extensions go into training camp. But I did find Mike Brown's tenor on this to be. interesting saying, like you said, we have people working on this as I'm talking to you, as he's addressing the media actively working on the deal. And we've got reports as well from Ian Rappaport that there was a new offer made supposedly in the last couple of days. We have R. Um, providing an update as well on Monday. And if you're into that sort of thing,

Starting point is 00:05:24 Ricky the dog also out there with, with his optimism on those Twitter streets. But taking it all into context with what the Bengals owner said about it, I think is where there's some reason to think that this could get done now. To your point, does it get done soon? The Bengals M.O. would be for this to get done like the Thursday before week one. Hopefully that is not the case because then we're dealing with this distraction all training camp, all preseason. Yeah, I I think that the urgency, the reason I think the urgency is there, and I pulled up the quote, we aren't going to trade, Trey. We're working to get Trey re-signed as we speak, and this is Mike Brown.

Starting point is 00:06:07 Our guys in the office are working to get that done, and I think it will get done. And that's what's interesting, is you see that, and then I want it done, and I think Trey does too. Like, those things, he wasn't saying it like that when it came to Jamar last year. You know, it didn't sound that, not that he didn't want it done, but it was like, all right, well, we'll see if we can make it work. We'd love to make it work. It's just a little different than I want it done. And so hopefully that means that they're close-ish.

Starting point is 00:06:41 And maybe we're doing an emergency pot on Monday night. And that would be great. I would prefer that over the Monday before the regular season starts, which we've had over the past couple of years. Oh, are they going to get Joe done? And they did. oh, are they going to get Jamar done? And that will be, think about it.

Starting point is 00:06:59 That would be a storyline going into week one for sure. Even if Trey shows up and like isn't practicing or something, I 100% think that would be a story. So it would be much better if it were to just get ironed out now wrinkle free. And by let's say August, the first week of August, when Jake Liscoe is still in town, Trey Hendrickson inks his deal. That would be good. It doesn't have to be today. I can be a little patient.

Starting point is 00:07:27 It's just July 21st. But we want to have a couple practices in, I would say, after that first week of August. Would love to do the Trey Hendrickson Sciences Contract episode while I'm in town, James. That would make our lives easy. As long as it's not happening Saturday when I'm in the air. And now that I say this out loud, what am I doing? It's going to happen Saturday when I'm in the air. But I think you have planned to do.

Starting point is 00:07:52 too. But the other quote that really stood out to me was Mike Brown reflecting on the history with Trey Henderson. He said, we've been through a few of these negotiations. And he pushes hard, he gets emotional. We never have an easy time of it. And if there's one thing that is consistent, it always gets done, I think, this well too. So if that's the mentality for Mike Brown, and I know Mike is less involved than he used to be in all those things, maybe you can't quite take him at the kind of face value you used to be able to take him at when he was actively involved in all of the negotiations and he would be the one doing this himself. He hasn't done that for years. But if that's the approach from the owner of the team, I think that that is a bit of a

Starting point is 00:08:41 different tone than we've heard throughout the offseason. And maybe that's just Mike Brown being soft at this point in his life. And his kid doesn't have that. And his de facto GM doesn't quite have that. And their words have been different throughout this process. But I still think that Mike Brown's words do matter and tell you what the organization's direction is, Andre Hendrickson here. Yeah, I don't think, not that you are saying he is. I don't think so.

Starting point is 00:09:08 I think he was very on the nose and pretty direct throughout. I mean, we're not even getting into stadium stuff, but he was asked just question after question after question about stadium and stadium lease and all the things that are involved in that. On the money, I thought he shared his thoughts. Sometimes it's tight to the vest. Sometimes it's not. I don't really know what, if you had given him truth serum is not the right word because

Starting point is 00:09:33 of course you can always say more. But if you had him in like a one-on-one conversation, I'm not sure if his answers would have been any different than they were in that scrum type of situation where he's going to one table with TV reporters, another table with TV reporters, another, I'm just describing this for our listeners and viewers now. and then a table with writers. I mean, Mike Brown did an hour and 20 minutes or so of interviews. All these, Duke Tobin did the same thing, Zach, the coordinators. So I do think that that's worth noting is how blunt he wasn't consistent throughout. I compared quotes. I wasn't in the writer scrum because I was getting video and then I was talking with the writers and it was similar.

Starting point is 00:10:12 And so I think that's interesting. Maybe there's a note or two more entree. If not, it is Shamar time. And boy, oh boy. want to talk about drama? Well, the drama is here. We'll talk about Shamar Stewart, what Mike Brown in Duke Tobin had to say with them as well, coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Ruggiet. Guys, you've probably heard of Viagra or Sialis. Maybe you've even tried them, but if you're looking for something beyond the usual pill, it's time to meet Ruggiet Reddy. Ruggiet Ready is the next-gen prescription treatment designed to amplify arousal in the brain and boost blood flow, unlike the usual pills that can take hours. Their three-in-one formula kicks in fast.

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Starting point is 00:11:53 Please visit the Ruggiet website for full safety information. My last thought on Trey Henderson here, James, is that one of, it's kind of a CYA thought, I guess, because we're sitting here spending some time thinking about and talking about Mike Brown's comments and his preference for this thing to get done. but and you said this so good job pointing this out earlier if mike brown's vision for this thing getting done is different from tray's vision for this thing getting done then it might still not get done and there's a chance that there's some naivety here potentially from me i'll just put myself on the spot here because when i saw what mike brown had to say today my takeaway was one of

Starting point is 00:12:46 of optimism. If it doesn't get done, then that's definitely a full me twice, shame on me thing, I think. Like, that would be, I think,

Starting point is 00:12:57 on me for misinterpreting something there. But that's the only, only thought that's left in my head is like, maybe I'm overreacting. And I don't know what you think about this. Maybe I'm overreacting to what Mike had to say today. Uh, well,

Starting point is 00:13:11 I always thought, I mean, going back to January, that this would get, done. The shock of the off season was them given him permission to seek a trade. And I'm not sure Mike ever would have signed off on a trade.

Starting point is 00:13:24 That's the other thing I would take away from today. He said, we're not trading him. And it was like blunt. So it might have been like, well, if we get two houses, a Porsche and two other the stadium deals, then maybe it will trade trade. But other than that, it's not going to happen. You know, I couldn't

Starting point is 00:13:40 think of the perfect. Bottom line is it's not, to me, I never felt like the Bengals were really in on trading him and I'm not sure Mike ever was, even if they entertained it publicly, just to see his value and allow him to see his value. But yeah, I think it gets done. I just, I needed to get done in both sides needed to get done.

Starting point is 00:14:01 So it's not impacting anything in a negative way. Yep. And in that's it. There's really no deadline for that. I wish there was. I wish Wednesday was a deadline because then both sides would have even more instead of playing hard ball and playing poker with the other side, which I'm sure they're doing now,

Starting point is 00:14:20 you'd be able to really put your best foot forward and try to get something done. So it may take a few weeks, but no, I still lean that way because I do think the Bengals value Trey, and I think Trey wants to be in Cincinnati. And at some point, does their offer get good enough to where he's like, all right, I'm taking this?

Starting point is 00:14:37 It should, and hopefully it does. Hopefully it does. I'm sick of talking about that one. I was glad to see some reason to think that it's going in the right direction today. Also, sick about talking about this. There we go. I was going to say you're excited to talk about this next one. Is that one?

Starting point is 00:14:53 Man, this, we got Duke Tovin taking shots at Zach Hiller, who is Samar Stewart's agent, not by name, but saying that he doesn't hold anything against a player, but doesn't know what kind of advice he's getting. We got Mike Brown explicitly spelling out that it. discussion and like how silly he thinks it is that they're arguing over it. Should we listen to what they had to say, James? Yeah. This is about two minutes long. It starts with Mike Brown being very blunt on the Shamar Stewart situation. And then Duke Tobin follows it up with his thoughts. From our vantage point, it's a form of foolishness. It just ought to get done. There is no dispute over

Starting point is 00:15:42 the money. It's just a dispute in his mind that I guess if he did something that really deserve punishment

Starting point is 00:15:57 that he would want the whole contract guaranteed. And we would want to say, well, it isn't guaranteed if you did something to that level. In that case, we would would step in and take away the guarantee.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Doesn't mean that we couldn't agree to pay it, but we wouldn't be forced to pay it. I don't want to pay somebody who hypothetically could be in jail for four years at this level of pay. And do I think any of that's going to happen? No. and that's why I use a word foolishness. It's in my mind at that level.

Starting point is 00:16:46 We want to get it done. We want to get him in here and working. He's a good young guy. And he's someone we think will be important to our team this year. You know, I hope Shamar comes in. He needs to be here. You know, the number one thing that a rookie needs is a fast start and a good productive rookie season.

Starting point is 00:17:07 And that normally translates. into a long productive NFL career. And so I would encourage him to be here and start building the bond with his teammates and getting his career started because he can be a factor for a championship caliber football team. And you don't always get that opportunity.

Starting point is 00:17:27 And so I'd like to see him, and I hope he gets here soon. You know, I don't blame Shamar. He's listening to the advice that he's paying for. I don't understand the advice. I don't agree with it. I'm not the one paying for it. If I thought we were treating him unfairly, it would be a different story,

Starting point is 00:17:44 but we're treating him fairly with all the rest of the draft picks in this year's draft. That was the shot. I would say that Jake Lusko was describing. I put both of those full videos on Cincinnati Bengals talk on YouTube. But the thing is, before we even react to that, Jake, Zach Hiller responded. Yeah. He responded to Duke as well. and he said, quote, Duke Tobin has no involvement in this negotiation.

Starting point is 00:18:12 It seems to be above his pay grade. He told Mike Florio of pro football talk. So that shot was taken and Hiller almost immediately responded. I hadn't even left the stadium yet. And that article was written from Florio. So that just gives you an idea of how quickly this happened. Drama, drama, drama. I don't even know your thoughts on this.

Starting point is 00:18:34 Your thoughts on the interesting back and forth now that Mike Brown, Duke Tobin, and well, Zach Hiller again, have spoken. Well, this is exactly what we've been talking about for the last two months. So there's no surprises here, but maybe hearing it spelled out the way Mike Brown spelled it out will change some people's minds. I think that the one thing that stands out is the separation of player from advice or player from issue being argued about that Mike Brown and Duke Tobin both had. I've also seen some people reacting to Mike Brown talking about paying people in jail and saying that it's like, a crappy thing for him to say. There's no good way to talk about defaults.

Starting point is 00:19:13 I think he was really good about specifying like hypothetical situation that I don't think is going to happen. But if it did happen, I don't want to pay somebody who is totally unavailable because they're incarcerated. Like it's a pretty reasonable thing for a business owner to say, I think. But I think it still seems from my vantage point, like the Bengals are doing something that most teams in the NFL are doing. There are some people out there who are saying that the Bengals language is different from other teams that have similar language.

Starting point is 00:19:46 And I'm sure it is not identical. There's a boilerplate for this in the NFL. Every team does it differently. But I am not sure I buy that it's much more permissive to the team or anything like that. And I don't think that this continued public mudslinging is productive for either side. We'll need to wrap this conversation up on the Shamar Stewart, Tom. and get to some of the non-contract-related learnings that we've had and moves the Bengals have made in the last 24 hours to finish this show coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:22:24 Yeah. Stop being so loud. I've said it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it and hopefully from ours camp understands it because I don't necessarily disagree. Like they're the one setting the precedent that the Bengals

Starting point is 00:22:40 haven't set and that should the Bengals should have done this a few years ago. They did not with their first round picks. Shamar doesn't want to be the first one when he's their earliest pick in a few years. Fine. I get it. But one, that isn't, it isn't some like egregious thing that the Bengals are doing. They're not trying to take your guaranteed money.

Starting point is 00:23:00 They're not trying to do anything that's so remotely out of bounds that you should be shouting from the mountaintops. And that's what I feel like Zach Hiller is doing. Why do I feel that way? Because he's been really loud on social media and behind the scenes. And I know it and you know it and everyone knows it. And so when these quotes come out, like it didn't shock me that he had talked to Mike Florio that quickly. But sometimes it's better to just be quiet. It doesn't mean you're wrong.

Starting point is 00:23:29 I don't even need to go there. But what's wrong is is yelling. And I know he's not physically yelling, but yelling about something that can be fixed very, very quickly or can be remedied very, very quickly. And so why shake the bridge between you and the Bengals when if they literally, if they called Zach Hiller today with the language that's in there that they want to put in and said instead of a 50% signing bonus, we're going to give you 75% of that signing bonus right away. That should probably be the bridge that's needed. Like it's a very simple fix.

Starting point is 00:24:07 And so don't shake the bridge or light the bridge on. fire or start to to trim things around the bridge that could break it when you don't need to because it's part of the negotiation process and being as loud as they're being. That's just, that's my issue because I don't know exactly what's in the clause. No one does unless you've read it. So maybe from our Stewart's camp is more on the right than we realize or vice versa. Maybe the Bengals are just putting in there what every other NFL team that has used this default language with the first rounder has done. But we talked about it yesterday. If the Bengals put this

Starting point is 00:24:46 language in Demetrius Knight's deal, and I'm sure they did, that precedent has already been starting to set. And 80% of that deal was guaranteed, which means Shamar's 100% guaranteed. Okay, it's a little different. But it's something that they're going to have to wrap their heads around as a group of them eventually bending. Do the Bengals need to give them a carrot to to sign on the dotted line. Fine, but that carrot might just be a signing bonus. So don't, you don't need to be so loud about it when I don't think it's that egregious. If it is, fine, but man, you better be right about it being that egregious because it's just been a lot of drama for not a lot. Like Shamar posting a photo of him at A&M on Monday morning,

Starting point is 00:25:31 knowing that the Bengals front office is going to talk. Like, that's by design. And if it's not, just don't post that story anyway, Shamar, everyone thinks you're working. So Just stuff like that. Just bring it down a nod or two. The level of volume is endearing no one to Shamar Stewart. You're not doing anyone favors here, and you're not making any progress in the negotiation. So in all those senses, I agree with you. If you're right, okay, I think it's very possible the Bengals tried to fight this fight

Starting point is 00:26:00 with their last two first round picks with Miles Murphy with Amarstens, and it didn't go public. And those deals took a while to get done. And then they didn't end up getting it in. And since it's now public, the Bengals are doing what the Bengals do in these situations, and they're digging their heels in. And that's where I think that don't be so loud about it, advice is prudent, because, again, I don't think it's helping anything.

Starting point is 00:26:24 Now, do the Bengals need to just get this thing done somehow? Is there responsibility for both sides here to find common ground and just get the thing done? Yes, absolutely. If Zach Hiller's gone in there and he's asked for that compromise, 7525 for signing bonus now, signing bonus later, and the Bengals have just shut it. down and said no, the offer is what it is, just sign the contract, then that's a problem, too. The Bengals front office isn't necessarily absolved here entirely, but the clause itself, I still haven't seen compelling enough evidence that I believe the clause that they're trying

Starting point is 00:26:55 to put in is anything crazy or is anything that could even come up. It's just a piece of protection that now is this crazy hot button topic because of the noise. And if that's what you want to do, great. Have that it. I don't personally see the productivity here for anyone except the Mike Flores of the world who are farming clicks and views on their websites from this news. I just, I want, like, who told Zach Hiller that being loud about it is the way to go when it comes to the Bengals?

Starting point is 00:27:32 Like, shouting from the mountaintops and sending messages and making calls and making calls. trying to like go that route like you're right it works never worked ask carson like i i talked to someone in the bengals building today that is not involved in these negotiations and they were like you think that they're going to blink now like you think that after all the stuff that's been going on like you think that they don't understand oh that that's how that's how we're playing this like it just made it was the wrong the wrong way to go about it even if they are right because we don't know the exact verb but i agree with you i think sometimes you just got to use logic logic says one one side is unhappy fine i don't think that they've started the negotiation process of that 75 25

Starting point is 00:28:21 yet i think the bengals are are pretty frustrated in this situation hopefully they do but that could be the difference it could be that simple thing and gets them in and by the way that should do it and to your point the bengals should be willing to do that like if you're asking shemar to break precedent here and take something fine. I get wanting to set that precedent. So given basically the way the signing bonus works is usually for for Bengals first round picks, it's 50% at signing and then 50% 90 days later. Just do 75% at signing and then you could do the other 25% 60 days later. So he gets all of his money within two months of signing and then that's that. And hopefully that's enough to get it done. And if you're the Bengals, I think that's worth it to do that to get Shamar in camp,

Starting point is 00:29:08 because that's the final thing is Shamar's agent, Shamar, and everybody in his camp should want him in camp. And the Bengals, exact same thing. So everyone's goal should be the same. And right now it doesn't feel that way. It feels like high school drama where people forgot what the goal is. And the goal is is to get number 97 on the field Wednesday when training camp starts. So how do both sides get that done? That's where they need to come together and understand that that's the ultimate goal. And that's what everybody should be wanting. And how about both?

Starting point is 00:29:44 Let's just get both done. So we don't have to talk about it anymore. So we're just talking about football things. Let's do that. We didn't even get to, we're going to have to talk about this tomorrow. We didn't even get to the players of Bengals signed. They signed Desmond Ritter. They signed Tavon Brian.

Starting point is 00:29:56 They signed a couple of other. They signed McTelvin Agam, and they signed a center whose name is escaping me. Rame is the last name. Rayne. Andrew Rame. Andrew, first name. Great job. Didn't even have a chance to talk about them.

Starting point is 00:30:09 We'll have to dig into those signings a little bit more tomorrow. I think one of those guys has a much better chance of making the team than those other guys on the list. You can talk about that in our next episode. B.J. Hill sounds like he's not going to go on a list. I was worried when they signed Tave and Brian that B.J. Hill was going to have to go on an injury list. Sounds like he'll be ready to go for camp. Those are healthy. But it was a foot issue and then Dax, the hills are healthy.

Starting point is 00:30:34 Dax also sounds like he'll be ready to go and probably also will be eased in. And there's going to be load management for those guys. But that they're not going on a list, a Pup list, an NFI list, whatever it is, is positive news for the Bengals as they start training camp. We'll get into those updates from the coordinators, from Zach Taylor, all those things that we didn't get to today in our next episode. the contract drama once again has consumed us for 30 minutes, James. We can't not do it. We can't not, but we won't not. And it's, it is, it is where we are. But once those deals get done, just get it done. The Shamar one should be done now. Like, the other thing Mike said is, I don't, I don't know if it'll get done today or tomorrow. I hate that because that means that

Starting point is 00:31:23 there's clear animosity that he was much more optimistic. He said, I think it'll get done. But he was more optimistic about Trey, I felt like than Shamar, which is insane because Shamar should be very, very simple. And his camp should want him in camp and the Bengals should want him in camp. And it should be very simple to find common ground. We'll see if they do. And when they do, Jake, guess what? We're turning these mics on, these cameras on. And we're going to be back right here on Locked on Bengals. That's right. An offseason of drama. Hopefully, with the light at the end of the tunnel, hopefully knocking on wood. Let's wrap this episode there.

Starting point is 00:32:02 We'll get to the rest of the Mock Turtle soup comments, like I said, from coaches, coordinators, et cetera, as we gear up for training camp opening on Wednesday. That's coming to you this week on lockdown Bengals. Until then, thanks for listening. Ho-Day. And have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals owner Mike Brown OPTIMISTIC on Trey Hendrickson deal, calls Shemar Stewart drama "foolishness"

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