Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals RB Coach At Notre Dame Pro Day: Is There ANY World Jeremiyah Love Makes Sense At 10?

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's pro day season, and while Jeremiah Love isn't really a target for number 10, what if he is, Justin Hill and Notre Dame? Let's get into it. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. He's James Rapine.

Starting point is 00:00:32 I'm Jake Liscoe. and what if the Bengals did draft a running back? What if it did make sense? I don't think it does, but maybe it does. In some hard-to-find path through the draft, and I know that James Rapine would be excited if it works out that way. Bengals running backs coach Justin Hill at Notre Dame for their pro day, maybe other Bengals coaches or scouts in attendance at Notre Dame as well.

Starting point is 00:01:01 There are other players, of course, besides Jeremiah Love and Judarian Price in this draft from the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, that the Bengals might want to get eyes on in person or talk to in person. But Justin Hill was photographed talking with Jeremiah Love at that pro day. And they obviously knew he wouldn't be working out there, James. The NFL teams would know that in advance. They saw him work out in Indianapolis not too long ago, but in attendance nonetheless. And we spent a lot of time yesterday talking about what if cornerback is in play at number 10? And this is a different conversation.

Starting point is 00:01:39 But along those lines, what if there is a scenario where the Bengals are exploring what that could look like or the trade back possibility? Or maybe it's just Judarian Price later on in the draft. And it's not about Jeremiah Love. But interesting, nonetheless, that the Bengals had some representation in Notre Dame today in the form of Justin Hill. Well, Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin were down the road to the University of Cincinnati. Yeah, here's why it makes sense because he is realistically, one, I think he could easily be the best player available if he's there at 10. Like, so whatever path to love being there at 10, and he shouldn't be. Like, he should be going much earlier than that.

Starting point is 00:02:19 He should be the first skill guy gone. He should probably be gone before any of the linemen. He should probably total any of the linemen, not just offensive line. and to be clear. So like now, running back is running back. And if he's there at 10 and why you said it doesn't make sense is because of the position. And so if I'm the Bengals, do I feel like I've put myself in position to go with running back? Well, on the surface, the answer is no, because they didn't do enough in free agency.

Starting point is 00:02:54 I gave them a D for free agency and it's because they didn't do enough. D stands for didn't do enough. and that, you know, they could resign some of their guys or they could do this or that. And it's still, unless they had an edge and they had a real linebacker, it's not going to feel like they did enough. At the same time, I feel like when you look at these drafts, we say the same thing every year. And we talk about positional value.

Starting point is 00:03:19 And we do the song and dance. And the thing I want to highlight and the reason why I look at players and not positions is because I want the instant. impact. Miles Murphy was not an instant impact guy. May end up being a good pick. Like everyone's looking at the 2023 draft. I'm like, oh, man, look at this. It may end up working out and it looks like it is. There's a lot of guys that are contributing. Guess what? It can't take three years for the way the Bengals have done things to get real impact out of your first round pick or three and a half years, which could be the case here with Miles

Starting point is 00:03:53 Murphy from a starter to above starter level. And I'm not critical. of him, but that's where they're at. They need Chamar Stewart, for example, to be good now, right now. And so if the Bengals take Jeremiah Love at 10, a lot of people are going to be angry and upset, and it's going to be the best player they've drafted in the first round since Jamar Chase. And it's not going to be close. And so when you say it that way, I think that's how people should view.

Starting point is 00:04:27 Look, I get it. the defense stinks and they need more. But if they're like, you know what, we just want the best player and they have him the highest on their board, which I think in a realistic scenario where he's there, he is, then yeah, I can see that. That doesn't mean it addresses their biggest weaknesses. Those are two different things. And that's why free agency was so overwhelming.

Starting point is 00:04:48 And they tie together. But yeah, I think Jeremiah Love would be their best first round picks in Stramar Chase. And a lot of people are going to say that that isn't saying much. And that's fine. but I do think that's a reality. Amari Spims is a great first round pick too. So it is saying something. But I think the next question would be,

Starting point is 00:05:06 is he the most impactful player that Bengals could draft at 10? With a reasonable list of players available to you. Say he's available and you know, you're talking about him and Delane and maybe one of the other defensive guys that we've talked about. Is that the most impactful

Starting point is 00:05:26 player for the Bengals. I think that's realistic, though. I don't think one of those other defenders makes it if... Perhaps not. Perhaps not, but maybe it's a couple of offensive linemen and a wider that go in the top nine, which I continue to see not a whole lot of offensive line mocked in the top 10 of this draft, and maybe that's how it plays out. We'll see there are teams that are very, very needy for offensive line help.

Starting point is 00:05:52 There are teams that are needy for cornerback help ahead of the Bengals as well. well. And if Sunny Stiles is getting mocked at like third and fourth and fifth as he's been lately, I don't know like why you wouldn't, I don't know, there's just this expectation that all these positions that

Starting point is 00:06:09 typically aren't drafted in the top ten are going to suddenly be drafted in the top ten this year. And maybe that's how it plays out, but I think that in and of itself is an interesting thing to dissect a little bit more. Where you're talking about Jeremiah, I love it, running back and Caleb Downs and safety and Sonny Stiles at linebacker where

Starting point is 00:06:25 typically you don't see a whole lot of those guys pick that early and when you do there's a lot of times questions attached to it but the impact for a player like jeremiah love i'm not saying there wouldn't be an impact but that's what the bengals have to consider both in the short and long term in terms of how is their offense structured how much better does jeremiah love make you even if he is an elite prospect and i'm not disputing are really here to talk about how good or not good of a prospect or my love is in this particular context, but like how much better does he make you? How much more of a chance does he give you to win games versus the player you're not drafting?

Starting point is 00:07:13 The opportunity costs. If you're talking about, you know, the Falk, Keldrick Falk instead, that's one thing. If you're talking about Ruben Bain instead or Sonny Stiles. instead or Caleb Downs instead. That's a totally different thing, I think. So that's why, you know, you do have to consider the opportunity cost. Like, who are they passing up? And how much better do each of those guys make you in the short and long term?

Starting point is 00:07:40 Sure. I get that. And that's why those guys are gone. There isn't really a scenario where one of those guys, I think, is there. And then love is too. Like it just may, I mean, you're right, maybe, but seems pretty unrealistic. and I think he would have a bigger impact than maybe the most popular mocked player to the Bengals right now, probably second. Because I think Caleb Downs is first.

Starting point is 00:08:12 And Ruben Bain is getting there, but he's not there yet. And maybe he will be, especially after he didn't go through all the testing at Miami's Pro Day. But the most common one recently at least, I think that, Jared, my love would make a bigger impact. So let's continue that impact discussion and discussion around the 10th pick coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood prediction markets. It's not you against the house. It's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments

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Starting point is 00:09:52 And I made the case for Delane yesterday. And I think it makes sense. You give your defense a real strength, Dax, DJ, Delane, and whatever, corn. because I think there is at least some discussion at corner there. But love makes your offense, at least should, make your offense far more dynamic, far more explosive, gives them a guy that didn't learn how to be a pass catcher when he got into the pros is already ready to go in that area and can line up in the slot if you need him to do that and will be better than Chase Brown as a pet.

Starting point is 00:10:30 And Chase Brown's gotten good at it. but is going to be the home run hitter as well. Like you suddenly have the number one wide receiver duo and maybe probably the number one running back duo in the league, there would be instant impact there. Long-term value, you can go all that and do that position value all day long. But if that guy comes in and is an offensive rookie of the year, which you'd be expecting him to be in that conversation,

Starting point is 00:10:57 and then a multi-time pro bowler by the time his second contract is coming around. Yeah, like that, that has value. And that's why I think he would be ahead of Amarius from a draft pick standpoint for me. Amarius was 17th overall and 18th overall. And there are a lot of people that were like, man, he hasn't played at all. He hasn't. Jeremiah Love has been dominant, has all the film, all of the things that you would be looking for from a running back in this offense. And he could mess around and catch a hundred balls if you wanted him to. So like, there would be real impact there. I, I, I, I, I, I, don't I don't think there are a lot of running backs you would consider that way for the Bengals.

Starting point is 00:11:37 This guy, you could literally say 100 catches and it would not shock me. The reason I brought up a Marius is because there was one good first round pick, I think unambiguously since Jamar Chase. That's all. I wasn't saying. He's good. He's good. I'm not saying, you know, by the way, like Delane could be a good first round.

Starting point is 00:11:55 I'm not trying to poo-poo that idea either. I'm just the idea of love everyone dismisses it because the defense stinks. And I get it. I just, there's real merit there if he's somehow there at 10. I think, I think and because he's a running back. I think it's, it's not just the defense is bad.

Starting point is 00:12:14 And we would be saying this about any offensive player. It's drafting and running back in the top 10 has not led to success. Pretty much anywhere that has happened that I can think of in recent years. Like, Bejohn Robinson's been good. Jonathan Taylor's been good. Was he a top 10 pick? I'm not sure. But Robinson was. He's got you thrown in the ball. But yes, keep going.

Starting point is 00:12:38 Yeah, no, there are other problems on these teams for sure. But typically where these guys have been drafted, it hasn't led to them winning a bunch of football games. The teams that are winning Super Bowls aren't drafting running backs in the top 10 and aren't paying running backs most of the time. Just looking at history, right? And that's not to say that Jeremiah Love couldn't make an impact. But when you talk about picking a running back, at 10, you consider the Delta to Chase Brown. Is he better than Chase Brown? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:08 Does he make the offense better? Probably, yeah, he does because you have the additional home run threat and the ability to break one off whenever he touches the ball. Maybe he gives you that explosive element and helps to unlock the explosiveness that your offense has been missing by keeping defense is honest. And that's the case you would have to make for him. it's just really hard for a team in the Bengals position and this is where it goes back to because of the defense

Starting point is 00:13:36 to talk about picking a running back at 10 because of what they've done and because the offense is already quite good. Yeah, it could be better, but man, that defense can't be losing games when you score 40 points anymore. You can't have that. And maybe he helps them reach 40 points a little bit more regularly. but if the defense still can't win the game,

Starting point is 00:13:58 I mean, so that's why in many, many scenarios, it's really hard to imagine. Like, what's the path where Love is the best pick? And the other guys aren't a better pick. It's we talked about it a little bit before we were recording, right? Like, they don't have a good plan for Mansour to Lane, and they don't want to move Dax back inside or whichever corner, right? And all those other guys on defense are gone.

Starting point is 00:14:20 It's like the Caldric Falk versus Jeremiah Love dichotomy. If those are the only two guys are picking between, maybe you could sell me on it. Probably a scenario like that, but what are the scenarios in your mind? Delane, like that, that's it. Because let's be honest, I didn't say this part yesterday. I will now. They're not going to pay both guys if they draft Delane. Just book it.

Starting point is 00:14:42 Book it. And I will apologize if they do. But this, like, if you draft Jeremiah Love, we're like, oh, well, they're not going to pay Chase Brown. Well, sure. By the way, if they draft Caleb Downs, they're not going to pay Jordan Bauer. Sure. If they draft Manzo Delane, I would be stunned if they pay Dax and DJ. And so that's it is, it's one year of the superhuman, hopefully superhuman secondary on paper. And then you're losing one of your two best pieces of that second. Maybe three if you include Cook now,

Starting point is 00:15:15 but three best pieces of that secondary for this guy. And that's it. That's the balance of it. and the in and out and all of those things when it comes to drafting. So that's it. Let's play again. There's a guy, we haven't talked about him, but we can use it to kind of jump off. Like, where is the line? Like, are you taking them in over love?

Starting point is 00:15:39 Are you taking downs over love? I think everybody would. That's fair. I get that. I would too, by the way, because I want to play maker on defense. Makes sense. Bain, sure.

Starting point is 00:15:48 You go on Monroe Freeling over love? probably not after extending Orlando Brown. That's a lot of money to spend a tackle for one guy who's a swing tackle first off the bench. I would love to see them get better at first tackle off the bench. And I would still love to see them invest in a relatively premium tackle. Maybe this isn't a year for it. Maybe that has to be next year. But it's a little closer when you talk about Freeling.

Starting point is 00:16:16 McCoy. It's tough to make that argument. McCoy will see how the rest of the health is so scary yeah yeah I mean that so that one you're not in on mesador I don't think I'm gonna bring up another one here mesador at 10 would be yeah I mean I get the pass rushing and all that stuff but at 10 I don't I'm not my age he's my age so you know he's not but close uh Theneman would you take Theteman that one that's where I it's interesting. Like that's the...

Starting point is 00:16:50 Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, they've paid... Like, the only safety, I think is downs. Because then you get... I don't think Thineman is as good of a prospect as downs. I know the athletic profile is there. I know the production is there. I don't see him as a guy that is like the safety that you pick at 10.

Starting point is 00:17:11 The way that Caleb Downs is a safety that you would consider taking a 10. Sadiq? Probably not. Yeah. I'm just running through it, and I'm going to give you one more here. Peter Woods. I would say no, based on the way his process is gone. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:29 Last actually, Caden McDonald. Yeah, the Bengals reportedly as of Tuesday, hosting Cade and McDonald for an in-person visit. They'll also, of course, be at the Ohio State Pro Day, and they met with him at the Combine as well. So showing a lot of interest in Caden McDonald. But no, not for me at 10. I know there are Ohio State fans out there that are like, man, if you could get DJ Reader guaranteed at 10, what you'd do it. You can guarantee it. I don't say no.

Starting point is 00:18:00 Not if I could have Jeremiah, like. Guarantee of like Prime DJ Reader for five years versus Jeremiah Love. Jeremy Love. Jeremy. Love. DJ Reeder is good. He's great. He was great.

Starting point is 00:18:17 He's good. Let's stop pretending he was. Gino Atkins. All right. He's really good. And he could take on double teams and he mattered a ton. I'm not saying that. But my gosh.

Starting point is 00:18:27 Like you can find other DJ readers too. And maybe McDonald is that. And by the way, it's not like you would complain. That wouldn't be a bad first round. Like if you got DJ Reader, it wouldn't be a bad first round pick. I'm not saying that. But this is their chance to get a real like game changer,

Starting point is 00:18:45 hopefully. And so that's it. And I think that's, that would be the kind of mindset. Mackay Lemon, you taking him over Love? You like Lemon. Yeah, that one's a lot closer. I would, I would honestly be more inclined.

Starting point is 00:18:58 If you're making me pick between a wide receiver and a running back, I would be more inclined to pick the wide receiver than the running back at 10. I think, I think Love would have a much bigger impact than Mackay Lemon. And that's who's the, I mean, maybe this is where we go next. Like, what's the example of this? Like, this is a great hypothetical because Jeremiah, I love was awesome in college.

Starting point is 00:19:19 What are you thinking of? Like who's the historic parallel? Tell me, answer me that. Are you thinking like he's just like Christian McCaffrey? Or like maybe that's where we go next to finish the show. Because there might have been other players also the other thing to mention. There might have been other players of Bengals are at Notre Dame to see. You can mention a few of those guys too.

Starting point is 00:19:39 But yeah, I want to hear like the real historical case that you would compare. Yeah. adding Jeremy I love to the Bengals offense. And we'll talk about that in just a minute. Today's show is brought to you by Home Chef. This time of year, well, let's be honest. We want food that's warm, satisfying, easy to make. And that's why Home Chef has become such a go-to and can become a go-to for you as well.

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Starting point is 00:20:43 All you have to do is go to homechef.com slash locked on NFL. That's homechef.com slash lockdown NFL for 50% off. percent off your first box and free dessert for life. You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. James, everydayers have been listening to you talk about Jeremiah I love for a while now. Everydayers know. They know that trench man extends to the running back room.

Starting point is 00:21:09 And look, if you're interested in getting an ad-free version of this Lockdown Bengals podcast and joining the Lockdown Discord channel for Everydayers, check out LockdownBengels. com for all the details. to join the Everydayer Club. What's your real world scenario, real world historical comparison

Starting point is 00:21:27 to where you could insert this kind of player into this kind of offense and see big, big impact from that move? Well, if you remember, the year was 1999, and Peyton Manning in the Indianapolis Colts had a guy with by the name of Edron James that they took forth overall,

Starting point is 00:21:50 but that's not the comp. The comp is who left Indy to go to St. Louis to join a very pretty similar quarterback in a lot of ways. Kurt Warner to form the greatest show on turf. That has been like discussed some with Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. They've never had that kind of running back. It wasn't Joe Mixen, even though everyone loved Joe Mixen. It wasn't Joe Mixin.

Starting point is 00:22:14 Wasn't that guy. It's a really good player. It was not that guy. Chase Brown is a good player. It's not that guy. and I'm not making the case for 52 different running backs in this draft, by the way. I'm saying if you can get a special player and it's special player or solid player at a position that you're valuing more, consider Jeremiah Love.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And so, yeah, the Marshall Falk comp is really the comp, a guy that can just transform what you're doing on the ground through the air. And you have to say, hey, he's a special player. By the way, Marshall Falk at 99, 87 catches, over a thousand yards receiving, five touchdowns receiving. also had 1,300 plus rushing yards and seven touchdowns. Like that's, that's impact. And I'm not saying expect 2,000 plus yards from scrimmage, you know, 2,400 yards from scrimmage. But yeah, I think Love would have a real impact.

Starting point is 00:23:03 They also went from players named Ampley and Ricky Proll leading them in catches. In 1998, Isaac Bruce was on the team, but only played five games. And then in 1999, obviously things went another direction. action. Marshall Falk actually led the Rams and receptions that year, but Isaac Bruce and Tori Holt, and as here, Hakeem, with the greatest show on turf coming

Starting point is 00:23:29 together. Ricky Perel was still good, but his receptions, or I guess fine, would be a better word than good. Yeah. His receptions were cut in half that year. So quite a few additions, from the changing quarterback to Kurt Warner and his breakout, Isaac Bruce, Tori Holt and Hakeem

Starting point is 00:23:44 taking the stage to go along with Marshall Falk. A lot changed from 98 to 99. It did. Marshall Falk was the best player on that team, not named the quarterback, not named Kurt Warner. Obviously, you always default to the quarterback and how that changes things. But ask anyone that recalls the, like, Marshall was amazed. Like, they that's why they were the greatest show on turf is because they could beat you anyway you needed. And when they lost

Starting point is 00:24:09 a few years later, a year later, two years later, to the Patriots, that was it. New England was focused on stopping Falk. And so, again, that's, one that was 30 years ago half of the everydayers don't remember it but like that would be what you're saying is hey he's going to make us so hard to contain so hard to stop and he's that good of a pass catcher and he's that dynamic and explosive and so that's probably why we don't know who else was there but that's probably why justin hill was there is is to discuss to at least chat with him because it's not far you drive to south bend and and so i'm sure that's what he did

Starting point is 00:24:44 convulsive in there of course to see jadarian price the other highly-tive mounted Notre Dame running back. There are... What would surprise you more if they, real quick, if they took Love at 10 or Price at 41? I'd be more surprised at price. I'd be more surprised at price. Really?

Starting point is 00:25:04 I'd be very surprised at both. I still, like, even after this conversation, I think it's very hard for me to imagine a world in which the Bengals would picture my 11th. I think that path, that picture is really hard. to paint. Yeah. Now, whether you, James, think they should. That's way different. Of course. I know. Versus what they will do, what we think they

Starting point is 00:25:29 will do. Yeah, it's really hard for me to paint that picture. I do remember about a month before the draft in 21 thinking like they're definitely going to take Sewell. But man, Jamar is so darn good and wanting Jamar. And I know it's different. The expectations are different. All of those things. I understand. I just do want to point that out. Love is probably not going to be there. And he shouldn't be there, to be clear. You should not be there at 10.

Starting point is 00:25:55 So we did the mock earlier this week. And what was he there at 15? Like, he went to 15. Like, there's just no way. The world in which he gets to 10 is a world in which you might fall further than 10. Like, no team in the top 10 wants to pick the running back. And then there's just like no landing spot for him because there are these other players that are seen as really good on the defense. side of the ball that maybe fit needs better or teams get really desperate for

Starting point is 00:26:19 offensive line. I was looking and like I haven't seen a draft. I went back a few years. I was trying to find the last time an offensive lineman wasn't picked in the top 10. The last time an offball linebacker was picked in the top 10, safety was picked in the top 10. These guys generally aren't picked very highly. It's just such a weird draft class.

Starting point is 00:26:42 The other players worth noting from Notre Dame that have draftable. notes in terms of the consensus board and things like that. Eli Raritan, a tight end that we've talked about quite a bit, would love him as a day three target at tight end. Malachi Fields for trenchman over here, wide receiver from Notre Dame, also seen probably as a day two potential option looking at consensus here. There are a few other players, Billy Strath, 116 on consensus as we're tracking it, and Emil Wagner, 178 on consensus, maybe Jalen Strowman at 226 for draftable players out of Notre Dame. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:22 Some interesting ones. I think I was wondering. I was like, is Al going to try to get one of his guys a year late? Remember how last year we were like, which guy is Al going to get? And is he going to get the Xavier Woods? It took me a second. Xavier Woods. And is that going to be it?

Starting point is 00:27:42 Is he going to take the corner who slip in my mind? Like it was all that. I wonder, I wonder if I was like, how's the time to strike and get Jeremiah love because I did ask Al about, I forgot about that quote. But Al had major praise for Jeremiah at the combine. I asked because I was like, man, if they did draft him, it would be really good to have that quote. And he had huge praise for him. If Al gets through this year and things start to turn around and they're still in a position, I don't know how this would happen. I don't think there was any way that they would be in position to draft him.

Starting point is 00:28:14 but Leonard Moore is the guy on that defense right now who's like, do you talk about corners that are going to beat? Like, Leonard Moore is probably a top five pick at his current trajectory next year. I don't know much about college football, but I do know about Leonard Moore, the standout true junior this year who as a true freshman was awesome. As a true sophomore is even better. If he continues that trajectory,

Starting point is 00:28:37 that'll be a Notre Dame defender that we could be talking about. Hopefully with envy because of Bengals won't be in a position to draft him next year. I still don't think, James, that they'll be in a position to draft, Jeremiah Love either, at least in their minds, maybe in your mind. I don't know if they'll get to a spot where they're in position

Starting point is 00:28:56 to draft him in my mind. We'll continue to play the would you rather game. I'm sure it'll come up between now and the draft. I think we named most of them, like most of the, if it comes down to these two guys. Most of them, yeah, because it's after that first tier of defender,

Starting point is 00:29:12 you know, first or second tier of defenders, however you want to tear them. After that is when you have the real, real debate. I don't think anyone's saying, take love over Bailey. If Bailey's there, or love over Bain.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Like, I think that that's the... You know what? There might be some people out there that are so down on Bain, because there are some people out there that are down on Bain. I don't think the NFL is as bad as that,

Starting point is 00:29:32 but yeah, I get it. But yeah, I was looking, he was like, he called Jeremiah Love Unselfish, how Golden did, team-oriented player football guy,

Starting point is 00:29:42 really, really special. and city has his own running style initially i acquitted him to ricky waters now he stands alone stands by himself and how he runs so just it was it was a really nice praise i'll share the full thing if they actually take him look man we built that time machine in yesterday's episode yeah and real for the every day is the suck out to the end they heard they know the future that's going to do it for this episode of the locked on bengals podcast until next time thanks for listening today and have a good one Thank you.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals RB Coach At Notre Dame Pro Day: Is There ANY World Jeremiyah Love Makes Sense At 10?

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