Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: Defense SHINES in BLOWOUT win over Cardinals, Ja'Marr Chase FINALLY scores

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

For the first time since Weeks 1 and 2, the Bengals have won consecutive games. Not only that, but their defense is starting to make an impact. Alex Frank, Mike Santagana, and Art Valero break down the Bengals' blowout win over the Cardinals and how their defense continues its late-season ascension. How does their performance impact the plan for the offseason? On the other side, Ja'Marr Chase finally got in the end zone for the first time since Week 7. Just how great is Chase? The guys discuss if he's the best wide receiver in Bengals' history and what makes him great.  Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Rocket Money Take control of your finances and cancel your unwanted subscriptions with Rocket Money. Go to https://RocketMoney.com/LOCKEDON today. Aura Frames For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting https://AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura’s best-selling Carver Mat frames - named #1 by Wirecutter - by using promo code LOCKEDON at checkout. FanDuel If you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit FanDuel.com and place your NFL live bets all season long. PrizePicks Download the PrizePicks app today and use code LOCKEDONNFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LO... Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm Alex Frank and for the first time since Weeks 1 and 2, the Bengals are on a winning streak, largely due to the fact that their defense played arguably their best game in the season, Mike Santagana. Yeah, and not even against a bad offense. I think the Cardinals offense has been fine, especially this is a game where you think they might blow some stuff up because Trey McBride and he didn't do anything until late.

And you go look at the stat line and think, like, oh, he had a good game, but it really happened after blowout time. So yeah, I think, They passed a test that was not a gimmie. They passed a test that was not a gimmie. And coach, one guy that we were kind of on the fence about coming into the season, now he's a building block on defense, Dax Hill. You know what?

And he was assigned to McBride quite a bit. And if it wasn't for the all-time leading tight-in reception leader, he kind of was quiet. You know, and just like Mike had said, until it was almost garbage time, did he start to make any plays? So you got, hey, you've got somebody, and that's good. Give credit to the Bengals defense. Oh, by the way, Jamar Chase is still that dude. All that and much more coming up on the Bengals Squad show.

Today, it's the Bengals squad. Everything Cincinnati Bengals every week. Breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the Queen City. the way only the Locked-on Podcast Network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals Squad Show starts now. And for the second straight week, we are hosting this show following a Bengals victory 37 to 14. They get it done against the Arizona Cardinals today at Bay Corr Stadium in Cincinnati. This is the Bengals Squad Show on the lockdown Bengals YouTube channel and the lockdown podcast network,

the number one sports podcast in American America and the world, your team every day. And if you want to become a member of the everydayer club, visit lockdownpodcast.com slash every day or for how you can become a member and receive exclusive everyday benefits. I'm Alex Frank. Join as usual on game days by Mike's antagona. You see him with his film breakdowns on Twitter at bangles underscore sands and on

SI.com Cincinnati Bengals talk. You also hear him on lockdown Bengals every week with James or Pene and Jake Liscoe, Coach Art Valera, longtime coaching veteran in the NFL and college. He's with us on every single show on the Bengals squad show. The Bengals winners today, gentlemen, 37 to 14. It was a really good day for the offense. They scored a lot of touchdowns. Joe Burrow looked in full command.

Jamar Chase, two touchdowns, his first touchdowns since week seven, as hard to believe as that is. And then the Bengals defense really shutting down for the most part, what as a You guys were talking about in the open, a very potent Arizona Cardinals offense, but they held them to just 14.7 of those, as we mentioned, coming when the starters were pretty much out at the game. So with a win like this, obviously the Bengals still eliminated from playoff contention, now six and ten on the season. But a win like this, I feel like is still good.

It's good for morale. It's good for the fan base, too. Do you guys agree that, yes, the Bengals, you know, we're talking about the draft right now, or at least fans want to talk about it. We will, too. but the Bengals are finding ways to win games, not just win games, win them convincingly. They're taking care of business against teams. They should be taking care of business against.

And that stuff does matter. Oh, Mike, you're unmuted there. There we go. Yeah, it definitely matters. And you can't decide. You don't get to choose who you play on your schedule. You know, it's going to be the guys who show up against you. I thought this Cardinals defense was pretty lacking coming into the game,

but I also thought the offense was pretty good. And the defense handled their offense. easily. Didn't feel like the Cardinals' offense really had anything going outside of the one coverage bust and mistackle from Gino Stone that ended up at a Michael Wilson touchdown. So they're playing really well. You're getting sacks from Miles Murphy, from Shamar Stewart. You get Dax Hill getting past breakups left and right. It seems like they were cool with Dax covering the tight end, and that might be the best tight end in the league, probably still number two after Kittle, but it looks like the next big one, and they're trusting

from Dax Hill take him, and he's doing an all right job. I think you look at this defensive performance, you think it's something you can build on. I always have just a little bit of worry, you know, it is still, what was a backup quarterback going into the game, and they can't control that. So they're playing pretty well, back-to-back games. They did a pretty good job against Quinn Ewers in the second half, did a good job against Jacoby Preset, this entire game.

but I really would have liked to see this defensive performance against the bills the week prior or just one of these games that's against at least a solid starting quarterback where you want to leave that's like a top 16 guy because if I'm building for next year I'm not building thinking let's get a defense that can beat up on bad quarterbacks and still get shredded against the better quarterbacks in this league because in my opinion you're thinking about the playoffs you're thinking about this team as a playoff team. And there's not very many of those bad quarterbacks that make it into the playoffs. So you need to be able to step your game up against high quality quarterbacks. But like I said, you can't pick who you play. So they're, they've turned it on. They're playing

really well. It should be a morale boost going into next year. You get some guys to add some juice, retool this defense a little bit. Maybe they're a little closer than we thought five weeks ago. I don't know. That gives you a little bit of hope for that. Yeah, it does. And I think it's interesting because a lot of people, a lot of fans keep saying, and we've been saying this too, they need to completely overhaul the defense. That part, that fact is not going to be dismissed based on today's performance. But coach, when you win two games like the Bengals have the last two weeks, does the front office like when they know they need to make changes, do they respond more to a team that they currently have that is fighting, scratching, clawing their way on

the field, they're winning games? Do they respond better to that at the end of the season, even though they know they're not going to the playoffs? You know what? It's all noticed. Everything is noticed. And if the front office does their job diligently, they know the circumstances. They know everything.

And just like Mike was talking about, you know, the best, really, the best quarterbacks are in the AFC. And that's who they play. And it's always, there's always going to be crossover games in the NFC. But to win your divisional games, that gives you plus points in terms of playoff chases. And so they, you know, they don't need to play the Jacoby Brissette's or the, you know, the other ones that, I mean, Shamar Sanders.

Yeah. You know, they need to be able to sit there and take it and have a great game plan and execute the glance. Penn, the game plan, versus, you know, the Josh Allen's and those types of people. And, you know, for that matter, for Aaron Rogers and the guys that know how to negotiate a field. And so, yeah, I think everything is being identified, noticed, ranked. And right now it's the players that are playing for their future and not necessarily management's holding them to that thinking, oh, the guy showed up one week. He's a keeper. Well, no, it's your work is over body of time. Yeah. And this is two weeks in a row where the Bengals defense has shown up, particularly in the

second half. Now, in the first half today, they were tremendous against Jacoby Perse, who, I know he's not a top 16 quarterback, but considering what he did against the Bengals last year against the Patriots, when he was with the Patriots, on Monday night football in 22 when he's with Cleveland, like this, this did matter today, at least for me, to see how they would do against the Cardinals' offense that has been pretty good since Jacoby Percette took over as a starter for Kyloff Murray in the middle of the season. But you're also right, too, because you need to see them do it against a quarterback like Josh Allen, like Patrick Mahomes, who they will face next season. The Bengals have clinched officially third place in the AFC North for the second straight season. So they will,

they will see Patrick Mahomes, bless you. They will see Patrick Mahomes next season. So that'll be a big challenge. They'll see Jay and Daniels next season as well. They're going to Washington for a game. And they'll also see, obviously, Lamar Jackson, as long as he's healthy, twice next season. But for me, you need confidence, okay? As much as coach you talk about showing things on film, you know, putting stuff on tape for the coaching staff or, you know, there's 31 other teams out there. For me, for the guys who are staying here, particularly the young defensive players, they need confidence.

I don't care who you're playing. You can be playing Miami who stinks. You can be playing Arizona who is abysmal. You need confidence amongst these players, given all that they have been through the last two seasons, the failures on defense, the close losses, the, you know, not capitalizing on your potential with a franchise quarterback and franchise wide receiver on the other side. That for me is what matters down this stretch. Yes, draft positioning does have mattered to a degree, although I would rebuttal against

that, but that's for another show. My thing is, can these guys have confidence going into the next off season? They knew before this season ended that they weren't going to the playoffs. Last year, they didn't until the final day of the regular season. And it was a hard pill to swallow, given all their missed opportunities. This season, they know that they weren't good enough. Joe Burrow knows that. But yet you're still seeing confidence not just simmer, but you're seeing to start to boil a little bit when you have these defense performances. Joe Borough again today, spectacular, 24 of 31 for 305, two touchdowns, no picks. Was sack three times.

We'll talk about that later on in the show. Chase Brown, 22 carries, 101 yards. Jamar Chase, seven catches 60 yards, two touchdowns. He's still that dude. We'll talk about him later on as well. So you have these players playing hard and they're gaining confidence and that can carry over in the next season. Coach, I'm going to turn to you.

How hard is it as a team when you play this well when you're eliminated and knowing man, we missed out on a golden opportunity this year. When you look around your division, you see the Ravens are only 500. Pittsburgh's 9 and 7. They just lost to Cleveland today. How hard is it when you realize that you did not live up to your potential

as you could have? Oh, you know what? And within the next month, they're going to figure it out, especially those young players because they're going to watch everybody they play on television. And they're sitting at home, eating chips,

the couch. You know, and they're going to say, well, you know what, if and what is said their butt. You know what? We could have been there. And it'll refire them up just to give themselves a chance. Hey, you know what? I want to be the only show on television. And that lends itself to really kind of igniting a fuse. Yeah, Mike, when you, when you watch the Ravens and the Steelers, and knowing that one of them, whoever wins that match of next week is going to go to the playoffs, how does that make you feel as a Bengals fan when you see, the Bengals may be better than both of those teams?

Like, how does that make you feel? How should that make this team feel, knowing that one of them is going to be in the playoffs and they're not? I mean, it's frustrating, but they did lose to the Ravens pretty convincingly a few weeks ago. So it's hard for me to do the, ah, man, there's so much better than that Ravens team. Ravens have actually been kind of hot, too.

They just beat the Packers. I think the Bengals, if Joe Burroughs healthy all year, they make it. They win the division, I think. But at the same time, and if Trey Hendrickson was around, same deal. But at the same time, I'm looking at this. They missed their opportunity against the Ravens. Like, they had one. They had the chance to beat the Ravens go to the playoffs.

They had a chance to beat the Steelers, and they laid another egg. So they have to win those games to me to really feel like, oh, man, it sucks. And that's just true. It does suck that you didn't make the playoffs this year with such a talented roster. And you're seeing what this team could have been in the past two weeks. But at the same time, you lost those games. You missed the opportunity. Just use that for next year.

Like, don't blow those games. It's negative. It's negative whatever out with wind chill. Can't go out and lay an egg. Can't go lay a goose egg on the scoreboard because you'll never win a game score in zero. So I think they have to look at that and say this was a winnable division when you look at the records. And they still had a chance to do it. it while Burrow was healthy and they couldn't.

So they really squandered their own opportunity, but they're showing you what they could have been the past two weeks. So hopefully this momentum carries over. The defensive performances carry over. I just, they did this last year, too. They ended on a high note last year defensively too. And then they were the worst defense in like NFL history just for like the first eight, 10 weeks.

So this team actually needs to carry over and we'll see how it goes. But they're playing well right now. They are, and that's important again. And I think it's interesting to point out that there's no guarantee they would have won the games they lost if Joe Borough had played, if Trey Hendrickson had played. But let's go back to the defense because they again were really good today. Four sacks of Chacobby percent. Their leading tackler, interestingly, was Joe Giles Harris with seven. Miles Murphy at six.

He had four solo tackles sack and a tackle for lost. Maitreys Knight Jr. had five tackles. Geno Stone even had four tackles, three solo tackles. So you're seeing sacks today, Murphy, Cedric Johnson, T.J. Slayton, and Shemar Stewart, first career sack for him, really good to see. I know a lot of Bengals fans have been frustrated with him, myself included, but you still, the book has still not been written on the Bengals first round traffic from this season. When you watch this defense today, gentlemen, what level of the defense are you most confident in right now, defensive line, linebackers, or secondary? Bless

you, Coach. I'm personally most confident in the secondary, I think. Just the cornerback room feels the most solidified to me. I think Dax Hill looks like a pretty good starter. D.J. Turner this year has been a Pro Bowl-level player. I think Jalen Davis has come along and been like, that guy could start if he gets the opportunity, and he's done a good job ever since he was put in as a starter.

Jordan Battle, I think that, I think he can play. And they still, they definitely, to me, need a replacement for Gino Stone. and I just don't think that's working out for them right now. No. But only being one piece away where you get, people have talked about Caleb Downs in the draft or you go and spend up in free agency, I don't even know what safeties are really available,

like Jaquam Brisk or Brian Cook. And you get a guy that can play at that safety spot. Great. I feel really good about them. I do think the defensive line follows behind because back-to-back weeks are some really good run defense from those guys, along with the sacks that you mentioned. Yeah, coach, I was going to.

to ask you because you know the trenches. The defensive line, I mean, I'm watching them today and I'm thinking, you have a good group up front that you can build with going into next season. Is that what you're seeing? Oh, absolutely. You know what? I tell you, I agree with Mike. You know, the secondary probably, you're one man out from really being solid. Yeah. And then two, if you, if you take that nickel position into context. You know, but the D-line, okay, they're playing solid. They're starting to create a little bit more pressure on the quarterback. And I think that, yeah, they're starting to come together.

And it was nice. I mean, we can, we, I hope it doesn't take, Samar, as long as it took miles to finally show up. you know i mean he has really turned the corner now he can always get better but he's proven to himself and hopefully this young man can say hey you know what that's me that can be me and now you have three defensive ends that can you can rotate in and out and they can play multiple spots and they'll be pretty good and another thing too is the performances of the young defense events coach that you're mentioning. I think that also is going to give the front office a little

breathing room to if they do decide to move on from Trey Hendrickson, they have some other guys waiting in the wings to finally make the impacts that we've been waiting for so long for them to make. The Cardinals today, 13 carries as a team for 42 yards. Now, that may have had to do with the fact that they fell behind 14-0 very early, but still, you find a way to shut down the run game early. Their longest run of the day was 11 yards. That's really good considering what this defense was early on this season. So this week, you guys may have seen there were more reports on Joe Burrow. And let's just call it that teams may call the Bengals this offseason.

Well, the only way the Bengals should answer the phones is if Joe Borough would like to recruit any of their players to come play for the Bengals. In other words, Joe Burrow is not leaving. And I'm sure Bengals fans aren't really putting any stock into any report that may come out over the next few weeks. talking about Joe Burrow and his performance and also Jamar Chase because he is still that due. We'll do that next coming up on the Bengals Squad Show. Today's edition of the Bengals Squad Show is brought to you by Price Picks.

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up prize picks. It's good to be right. Bengals squad on a Sunday following the Bengals 37 to 14 win over the Arizona Cardinals. It was a great day for Joe Burrow, who was 24 of 31 for 305 and two touchdowns. That means over his last two games against the Dolphins and the Cardinals. Again, you can say what you want about it being the Dolphins and Cardinals. We'll counter with the fact that he still is 29 of 60 or 49 of 63. I did that matter. in my head. 49 of 63 for 614 yards and six touchdowns. Oh, by the way, no interceptions. So there is that too. So before we get to Joe Burr, I want to say this because the winning streak, yes, it's, it's great to see the Bengals win games. It is. Don't get me wrong. But what I don't want

the front office to do to me at least, and I'm sure for a lot of other Bengals fans, I can speak for them right now, is I don't want them to make us think, oh, well, Joe Burrow played well down the stretch, as long as he stays healthy. We're closer than maybe some might think. We don't need to make as many moves. No, I don't want to be fooled into that mindset again like I was this past off season because we saw it blow up instantaneously less than six quarters into the season. There still needs to be major moves made this off season.

A, because you weren't very good this year. B, because yes, you might be close to winning something next year. I've seen the Bengals. We've all seen them four years ago. go from four wins to 10 wins and then go to the Super Bowl and come this close to bringing a LaBardi trophy back to Cincinnati. But that requires a major overhaul, which we saw in the offseason prior to 21. Let's go back to Joe Burrow. What impressed you guys the most today, considering that he is once again on a very, very good upward trajectory to finish the season

back to back 300-yard passing games, back-to-back games with multiple touchdown pass He has multiple touchdown passes in four of his five games since returning. Pretty darn impressive. Yeah, I think what's really impressive whenever you watch Joe Burrow work is how he's in complete command. It starts pre-snap. I feel like he's always getting the team in the right play into the right protection. There was one blitzing linebacker sack today, but it seemed more like a Somaget P. Ryan

miss than it was a missed protection call. I think they were in the correct protection, but if he didn't kind of hurt himself, non-contact came back in the game, no issue. But he's always in control there. And today, I think the cadence stood out because he was at home, too. And you see this most on that third and five. They got the jump where he's using his cadence on a third and five. This isn't a fourth down where there's no play call,

and they're just going to go up there and try to get the defense to jump and see if they will. This was third and five, and he's using a hard count to try to get the defense to jump. And he'll get him a first down at, If it does, and if it doesn't, it makes the defense sit back on their heels just a little bit more. When you use a varied cadence, you're stopping that defensive line from being able to fire off of the ball. And you don't always see quarterbacks take control like that, but he's done that since really, I think, his rookie year or maybe his second year, I feel like he's always used his cadence well. And then from there, you get the standard, yeah, he's incredible in terms of ball placement.

He's always making the right read post-snap. He's able to read out these defenders and make throws. not everybody can throw because they don't see the game as fast as he does. And then third, I think there was also to add to the stats, 19 of 19 for 205 yards and three touchdowns when he was kept clean today. And anymore, he's kept clean more often than he used to be. And they're allowing him to take some deeper drops on some longer developing routes. And that's just something you love to see with this offensive line.

But when he's kept clean, I mean, he's unstoppable. We saw that. Yeah, Coach, does it look to you because Joe Burrow has talked about, you know, being mobile is very valuable to his game, using his legs more, running more. But when you see him do that, does it look like to you that he is waiting until the absolute last second to make a throw down the field? And he's still, while yes, he's outside of the pocket, does it look like to you, he's still in the mindset of I want to try to push this ball down the field? And if so, how impressive is that about his game? Well, you know what? He is going to look to throw the ball first. He trusts his arm much more than he trusts his legs. And, you know, everybody can see it. He's not a runner. He's not one of those guys.

He is a pure thrower. And he's a passer. And he's accurate. And he's on time. And everything needs to be there. So his wideouts are on as they were today. They are on time with him. and everything is going pretty well.

Now, to get back to earlier what you're talking about, I hope management doesn't say, hey, well, we got Joe, status quo. No, no, no, no, no. Every year you have to add pieces. It's like playing chess. You know what your pieces can do. If they can no longer do that,

it's time to get a new piece. Yeah. And you need to be, able to put those good pieces in there and whether through free agency or not or through the draft, but don't count on the draft choices helping you right away. That is depth. And that's where there was a period of time during the season where the depth was not there. It wasn't because he either had to grow up, they had to learn, they had to do whatever. Hey, you know what? You're on this football team for a reason. Special teams has always

has been good all year. Why? Because all those players were playing on special teams. So now, hey, you've just earned yourself a role. So now we have to start to know where you fit. And, you know, like I've said before, it's not the top 10. It's the bottom 43 on game day that really make your team. And whether they're on offense, defense, their special teams. Those are the guys because the stars are going to be stars. Yeah. Depth matters. Look at today. 11 different players caught a pass from Joe Burrow today. 11 different players. And he only completed 24 passes. I say only completed 24 because 11 different

players caught a pass. Now, the other thing today that was so impressive was the Bengals running game. Chase Brown, 22 carries 101 yards, two touchdowns. He has really come on strong since week seven of this season, that first game against the Steelers. So you look at what you. Look at what Joe Burrow has been able to do, but you also look around the NFL, and I think a lot of other organizations have said, well, Patrick Mahomes, we got him, Lamar Jackson, we got him, Josh Allen. But Mahomes is not going to the playoffs. There's a chance Lamar Jackson's not going to the playoffs. And even if the Ravens do make the playoffs, I don't even know if Lamar Jackson is going to play. That's a conversation for next week. But you have to look around the NFL.

It's not just you, the Bengals, that say, well, we have Joe Burrow, we're going to be fine. That's not it at all. There's no guarantee that Joe Borough would have won you the games that you lost earlier this season if he had played. That's where you have to make major changes. Joe Burrow is at his best when he has a very, very good team around him. And every quarterback is. You can say that there are quarterbacks like Tom Brady who could elevate guys like Chris Hogan or Denny and Mendolla. That's fine. You know what else he had around him? A very good defense. Oh, by the way, the Patriots, coaching staff. Bill Belichick. It was Matt Patricia. It was Josh McDaniels. It was Dante Scarnacia. It was name me any other head coach, Gerard Mayo, Larry Izzo, for instance. So it's not just having guys around you on offense. It's complimentary football. Coach, you mentioned the bottom,

you know, 11 through 53. That stuff does matter because let's say what happens if Burrell gets hurt, God forbid, which is what happened this year? What insurance policy do you have? You have to have insurance policies. And that's where I think a big learning lesson comes from this season. Now, that's not to say Joe Burrow is still one of the three, two, maybe the best quarterback in the NFL when you watch his performance today. Now, he benefited from the running game. Mike, you've watched, you've been studying the film, coach, I'll turn to you in a second. But when you watch this Bengals running game, what should they be, this offensive coaching staff, what should, assuming they're still around to go into the next season, which I think for all

intensive purposes they will be. What stands out to you about the way that Bengals have been running the football and do they need to tweak anything to make sure they can build on it next season? I think the last two weeks has been really impressive and I think the run game was impressive before that. But what I really like these last two weeks, the one thing is they've gotten into the wide zone run game. And I like what Scott Peters is asking his guys to do where instead of this Bengals offensive line, we've been saying they've been very good all year and I agree with that. Well, they've been good the last, however many weeks since Flacco took over. And I agree with that.

But I think they're getting helped out, too, by the coaching. And we watch them run wide zone or mid zone, whatever the angle of the running back will tell you, they're not asking these guys to be super athletes, you know, take that first step and you're just sprinting in a line where you take that step, open up your hips and then try to climb your angles. What they're really doing is they're asking them to kind of shuffle square and stay square with the defense. shuffle up, give help, and keep climbing up. And they're kind of tightening the running back angle to help that so that this is not asking them to go fast and hard out of their stance and get like a defensive end that's in a wide nine technique.

They don't need Amarious Mins or Orlando Brown to go and pick that guy up without any help. Instead, they're asking, stay shuffle, stay square. You'll get there. But the way they're running it is really interesting to me because I think that is the best way this office of line should be running a play like that. Where you think of Ted Karris, what do we think of him as a player, like very smart, good and pass protection? I don't think of him as a super Jason Kelsey type of athlete.

I think of him as an okay athlete. Dalton Risenor, kind of the same deal. Good pass protector. Okay athlete. I think Dylan Fairchild was a pretty good athlete, the Combine. I don't have numbers in front of anybody. He looks like a pretty good athlete. Orlando Brown, one of the worst athletes in Combine history.

So you're taking a guy that's, this isn't a very athletic offensive line. So finding ways to run plays like that, which is typically reserved for like, look at that offensive line, get out in space, run, run down the line, get up to the second level, like look at all these athletes. They find a way to be successful in that run scheme without the athletes for it. So I find that really impressive. They're also running a lot of long trap this game. I think that was game plan specific just with how maybe the Cardinals were playing their

defensive ends flying off the ball. You think of a BJ Oja Lari and Josh Sweat and those guys are flying off the ball. They're thin guys. They're small. they want to go rush the pass or let's just keep trapping them whenever they want to go try to do that. But I'm really interested in the wide zone thing. I kind of wanted to ask coach, like I don't know what you taught when you were teaching wide zone, but I find it interesting because I don't see a lot of teams kind of shuffle their way through the office

line, staying square to the line scrimmage. I feel like I'm more so to see the shoulder and hip turn and opening. I don't know how you taught it or if you know any differences here. Well, you know, it was all about the way I taught it was always about the landmark of the defender that you were trying to attack and that you in the adjacent offensive alignment that you were working with, you know, had to be on that same level because it looked, it should look almost choreographed. You know, this is no different though in the way that they're doing it because they're just adding two bodies to one being the defensive lineman and the half a body being the

lineback. And so you're getting basically the same read. And I think that, you know, they're doing a great job in the running game when it's called. They're still 60, 40, but that's what they, you got Joe Burrow. Why not? You know, so you can be 60, 40. As long as you have efficient runs when you're running it, mix some other things in, give some people some different things in the running game that they're not prepared to play. And, you know, it's it's like we were talking about the other day. We were talking about San Francisco. You know, if you thought about Kyle Shanahan, you'd think about, okay, they're running wide zone to death. Well, no, they're running power encounter to death. Why? Because it's a compliment that they've switched away from.

and they had the bodies they could do it. And so, you know, as far as the running game, I'm kind of excited about it. And you know what? They're doing a great job of formationing their run games. So those safeties aren't getting really involved. And when they start to get involved, hey, from doing it under center,

they can still go with a great play action and hit them over the top. It's one thing that, to what, you guys are alluding to with the running game and the wide zone run scheme, the concept. It's, we're not asking the Bengals to be elite at running the football. We're not asking them to be like Derek Henry and the Ravens or the 49ers coach, as you mentioned. But be able to make your offense unpredictable for opposing defenses. Because opposing defenses, yes, it's hard to stop Joe Burrow and Jamar, Jason T. Higgins. There's no denying that. But this, this offense, is also easy to stop because if you can get pressure with four on Joe Borough,

and if you can double team Jamar Chase and if you can somehow take away T. Higgins and make Joe Borough beat you with other guys, then you have a better chance at beating this team. But what happens when you get gashed up the middle in the running game or in the wide zone? That's what makes Chase Brown so great. He can go up the middle. He can go outside. That's what you want to see. You want your offense to be unpredictable. And Mike, you mentioned Scott Peters. We haven't mentioned his name a lot this season. It's kind of a good thing. because the offensive line has been playing at a much better level than they were at last season or in 23 or even the two years prior to that. So these are all good developments.

And if you can build on this, if you can run the football in 2026, Chase Brown, I believe is up for a contract extension this offseason. He's going to be finishing his third season. So get out in front of him, maybe pick up his fifth year option to, you know, really prove to the front office that he is this future, this team's future running. back, which I believe he is. I believe he fits this offense well because of his versatility, because of his skill set, his dynamic running abilities, his ability is to make guys missing space. That's all great. You have that. So be able to use that going into next season. But one guy the Bengals will have for the long term is Jamar Chase. And he made some history on Sunday. Coach, I'm finally going to ask you what makes Jamar Chase so great at what he does. And we will do that

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and Jake Liscoe and their recap and breakdown of today's game available now on the Lockdown Bengals YouTube channel and wherever you get your podcast. Gentleman Jamar Chase is that dude. That much is clear. Two touchdowns today. First two touchdowns since week seven against the Steelers. He also made a little bit of history today. But before we get into that, Coach, what makes Jamar Chase?

Because you've been around a ton of great receivers throughout your coaching career. Georgia are vicious. Keenan McCardell, not to mention the others you've been around. What makes Jamar Chase so great at what he does? Well, you know what? And it was, after watching him today, he's so elusive. You know, they don't get a clean hit on him. And when you see him in space, he's got quickness, he's got speed.

And there's a lot of receivers out there that are faster than they are quick. Or they're quicker than they are fast. Well, he seems to have the whole package. You know, that's why, and I kept thinking about it, where was this guy earlier? Well, you know what? He was the epitome of the frustration level that was coming into the on the team. Wasn't getting the ball much, letting people get to his head because the team was struggling. And, you know, hey, I take back everything that I said.

I said, you know, that's what a captain supposed to do. You just go up and make plays. And, okay, you've now earned your contract. So yeah, no, I think that's, he is a phenomenal athlete, unbelievable. And what they feed him in Louisiana or wherever he's originally from? Oh, just keep pumping it. Speaking of the feeding him, have you ever seen his calves, he looks like he was a former fat kid. His calves are giant.

He's got big calves. And I think that's the biggest difference in the, in the yak stuff. He's a really strong runner. There's a photo from forever ago. And it's got Justin Jefferson, and, and, you know, Jamar Chase and Devontas Smith. And the difference in his calves against those guys is insane. One calf is like the size of both of theirs. So he's just got such a strong lower body to him. But you can continue. I just wanted to bring them back.

They're not calves or cows. Wow. Hey, I mean, you did. You were on the Rams coaching staff at one point, coach. Look, Javar Chase today became the first receiver in NFL history, our first player, I should say, with 80 receptions, 1,000 receiving yards and seven reception, seven touchdown receptions in each of his first five seasons. He's going to the Pro Bowl again this season. That's five seasons, five Pro Bowls for Jamar Chase. I like that you went the route that you did coach because, yeah,

he was in the crosshairs of a lot of people when he was suspended for his spickgate incident in Pittsburgh in week 11. And you were vehemently criticizing him on our show that day. But I think it's also fair to give someone credit when they learn from their mistakes, which Jamar Chase did. he felt very badly about it. That much was very, very evident. And he has been very good for the most part since then.

He's shown why he's a captain. He's shown why he's a leader. He has shown why that he is still the best wide receiver in the NFL. He's second in the NFL in receptions this season at 110. He's fifth in yards at 1256. He has five, he has seven touchdowns. Actually, those numbers gone. I just went up.

I just realized, excuse me, disregard those numbers that I just mentioned. Those numbers are actually wrong, I believe. Let me, I'll get back with those. That's from three different quarterbacks. That's a great point, too. Yes, that's a great point. He has touchdown receptions from three different quarterbacks this season, from three different quarterbacks.

And you know what it's, you know what two it is, I think, gentlemen, and I want your take on this. We thought after the game at Pittsburgh where Jamar spit on Jalen Ramsey that Zach Taylor had completely lost the locker room because Jamar had exploded. I don't necessarily know if it was that now. I just think it's a guy who you mentioned coach, he was frustrated with how the season has been going because Jamar Chase is used to winning. He was a winner in LSU and national champion. His rookie season, the Bengals go to the Super Bowl. His second year, they go to the AFC championship. They've had winning records each of his first

four seasons prior to this season. I think that was him being very frustrated with how the season has been going. So is that how you two, now that we've seen what we've seen from Jamar since the suspension and boroughs come back, is that how you, see it. He's just been frustrated with how the overall season has been going, not necessarily Zach Taylor per se. Yeah, he's a fiery player. I think that's the first thing. You can see him getting into it with guys a lot. It happens from time to time. I don't think it's a lot of times it's not negative. I mean, you're chirping, you're, you know, sometimes that helps guys to chirp and have guys chirp bag. I'll show you then. You're going to talk to me like that.

I think it went a little overboard when sometimes you get guys, they get a lot of these kind of heated debates on the field. If that turns into something more, that's where it's a negative. But if it stays at just a heated debate, he's typically the one that's getting in their head and messing with them. So I don't always mind it. But yeah, to me, it was a very frustrated wide receiver who is very fiery personality and who gets into it.

He's not afraid to get into it with the corners and safeties that he's facing. Coach, is that how you see it? Oh, you know, absolutely. I think, you know what? I mean, at that time, I think everybody was frustrated. We were frustrated. And, you know, that's why so many stones got thrown because what you were seeing was kind of an out-the-body experience.

And you've got weapons. Why aren't they playing up to their potential or handling themselves? And we don't know what goes behind closed doors or what's on campus. in Cincinnati right now, I mean, at the facility. But, you know what? I mean, he has putting the team on his back from a wide receiver standpoint. Even when, you know, T. Higgins was without two games with a concussion, and he just kept showing up.

And he's very durable. I mean, the kid is durable for not being, you know, that big. Yeah, he's only missed one game. the last two seasons, and that's because he was suspended. By the way, he's now up to this season 117 receptions. That's only 10 away from his 127 reception total last season, 13116 yards, seven touchdowns. You know, you mentioned coach that he's been doing this with three different quarterbacks. Not to mention T. Higgins has been having the season he's been having. He also got paid this offseason. And yet, Jamar Chase is still averaging 11.2 yards per reception.

You've seen a lot of great receivers coach in your coaching career. Who does he most, who does Jamar Chase most remind you of? Ooh. I would say Steve Smith. That's a great one. Who, you know what? And I'd say, yeah, I would have to say Steve Smith.

Okay. Mike, he's always productive. Yes. You know, it's like, God, I'm glad. he's on our team because me as an opponent I hate it as oh shoot you got this talker getting the ball again really you know so the ones that I would say definitely Steve Smith Steve Smith Mike well how about you curious what your comparison is I was in the same boat I think the yards after catch the way they're built he's taller but they were both like really

strong for their size like you see Steve Smith 58 whatever he was Jumar Chase six foot flat, whatever he is. It's not that they are a lean version of that. They are a very built strong version of that height. I think that gets taken for granted. They're both insane runners after the catch, very strong. Like coach said, both very fiery, both both very fiery. That's what I was talking about too. Yeah. I got similar personalities. I think George Chase probably better when the ball is deep downfield in the air. I think that's where the, it's just a little bit off. Like I think chase is even better at doing that. I think Steve Smith might be somehow even more fiery, more, more,

might have been even a little bit better yards after catch guy just because he was just such a hard, hard runner. I think Chase is too, but I think that's the only difference is chase a little bit taller and a little bit better down the field with the ball in the air, but I can't think of too many guys that are like built the same like this, got the same personality. It's just Chase is a bigger version of him and a little bit better to me in the plays that ball in the air down the field go go up there and moss two guys i think part of that comes in his chase is you know size he's got the extra of four inches or whatever on smith so being able to jump up

above them it's more likely chase is able to do that so yeah i love coach's comparison i mean that to me feels right i can't think of too many other guys like anchuan bolton's big but he's too big and then you think of like throw low ins another guy big they're kind of all built like that really strong type of wide receivers, but again, too big. Like these guys are like six four. So it's like a six foot version mixture of like Steve Smith and Trello and stuff of thing. It's nuts.

It's great. And so it's one of the best receivers I've ever seen. It's amazing. And by the way, Steve Smith, like Jamar Chase also was a triple crown winner back in 2005. So I mean, if Jamar Chase turns out like Steve Smith, Bengals fans are going to be very happy for the next decade plus. And the fiery aspect, you're absolutely right, because Steve Smith, I mean, he was not afraid get into it with a corner, particularly to keep to leave just off the top of my head in 2013.

So that's what you'd like to see from your wide receiver. But it's also great because let's be honest, when it comes to number one wide receivers, we've seen this with Stefan Diggs. We saw it loud with Terrell Owens. We saw it a little bit with Chad Johnson. You know, you can hear conversations surrounding him, you know, diva or, you know, other negative, you know, views on a number one wide receiver. Jamar Chase from his rookie season has been anything but that.

He gets the ball, but yet you see his leadership, the small things he does, the way he carries himself, his ability to block on the field, his ability to understand the fact that T. Higgins is going to get a lion's share of targets and receptions as well. Coach, what does that say about a guy like Jamar Chase who was anything but selfish on the field, even though he plays at a position that has a notorious history of receivers that have been that way. Oh, great.

Makes for a very, very good locker room. When, you know, when you have those diva types in your locker room, and that doesn't, that does not seem like that's a persona in the Bengals locker room. When you have a diva in your locker room, and, you know, by the way, Steve Smith wasn't afraid to punch out a teammate during stretch. Wow. You know? So, Jamar hasn't done that yet, but, hey, he's a competitor.

Who knows? You know, so you really, you say, hey, you know what, there's enough. That's the incredible thing about when you have great skill players. There's only one ball. And when you're to set you up, you're willing to give some of those away. Outstanding. Yeah. By the way, Steve Smith bless you.

Steve Smith only had one. season with 100 receptions. Chase has that in the last three seasons. So, I mean, from that perspective, there is that. Mike, what about Jamar Chase, both this season and what you've seen over the last five seasons as most impressed you? I think, talk about his jacket, but what I really think it is is he's maybe the best in the league get, tracking the ball and using his hands extremely late to catch it. I think that's what's, I think that's what separates him from everybody else is consistently knowing exactly where the ball is to the point where he does the Randy Moss, where the ball, as it's coming down,

right as it's about to hit, puts the hands out, catches it, brings it in. And the corners are watching the hands on these plays trying to get a hand in there once they bring their hands up to catch the ball. And they never get the opportunity because Chase is catching it basically right when it arrives to his hands. He's not sticking his hands out early or jumping up early and trying to catch it or anything. So I think that's what stands out the most to me. His improvement, I think, also stands out where I think he's a better player almost every year's been in the league. I think he's become a better route runner. He's always been a bully off of the line as a wide receiver, but he's learned how to release as well from just using his feet and not getting into those,

you know, locked horn matches. I think he's gotten better on the technical side. He's He's extremely explosive. He might be faster even than that 4-3-9 or whatever it was that he ran at the combine. I think what gets it for me, though, is just down the field, late hands, able to bring in these balls that he's probably one of the best guys, both at running after the catch and then also at making plays down the field when the ball's in the air. No question about that. And you may hear his name mentioned in our next segment because we're going to give out game balls. on each side of the ball, and we will do that next on the Bengals Squad Show. Well, for the second straight week, we are going to hand out some game balls here on the

Bengals Squad show. I'm going to start us off because you can go a lot of different ways. I'm going to go Chase Brown, because it is really good to see what he did today. He had 141 combined yards, over 100 yards rushing on 22 carries. Good to see him get 22 carries. That's what you want from a guy who if you view him as your belkout running back, you want him to get a lot of carries, two touchdowns. He's going to get my game ball on the offensive side. And then on the defensive side, I got to give it to Miles Murphy because he just continues to show why he was the Bengals first round pick in 23 and why he was worth the weight. And did it take longer than we had hoped for him to finally have that breakout, you know, him personally and in the second half of the season?

Yes. But at the same time, he's having it. Six tackles, four of them solo, had a sack and a tackle for loss. You have a building block in him on defense that you can use. So Chase Brown for me on offense, Miles Murphy for me on defense. Michael, start with you. Who are you giving your game balls to? I think I go Joe Burrow on offense.

He took the game early, went out and this offense was extremely productive. And I put a lot of that on his shoulders with the early passing touchdowns, getting themselves out of bad positions where the backed up situation, getting that ball to Mike Gaseki, and immediately it doesn't matter. you're not within your own 20 anymore. You're not thinking about punting and trying to make room for the punter. So I thought he played extremely well today, especially when he was protected. On defense, I got to go Dax Hill because this felt like his game.

It felt like the game that you're going to look back and see, okay, that's when we knew we had a guy in Dax Hill. Kind of how the, I think it was the Packers game where you look back and go, that's, I think, when we knew we might have had a guy in DJ Turner. Happening in the same year is awesome because Daxil was doing everything. He was defending tight ends. defending their best receiver in Michael Wilson. He's playing his zones.

He's making plays on the ball, not really given much up. I was really impressed with him. It's one position too now that the front office does not have to worry about this offseason. They bet on them without really addressing the corner position this past off season. That worked. That's a good thing. Coach, you're giving your game balls too.

Well, I have to give mine to Jamar Chase. Okay. Outside. I think he showed with the two. touchdowns right out the bat, you know, kind of separated the team and separated, hey, we're here to play, and you can catch us. And on defense, I thought, I thought Dax Hill did a phenomenal job today. He did.

Yeah, he really did. And it all added up to a 37-14 win, a game that was never really close. There was that bad defensive play early on in the game where you had three Bengals defenders ready to tackle Michael Wilson and, well, let's just say they, none of them did. But at the end of the day, that play was kind of stuffed into the play by play books because then you saw Joe Burrow, leave the offense down the field. They get three points. There was a drive in the game that began, if I can pull this up.

There was a drive that began on the Bengals, I think, two yard line. They go 10 play, play, Burrow hits Kiski. Kisiki had a really nice game, too, by the way, today. So that was good to see. And then you look at, there was another point in the game. Burrow hits T. Higgins down the sideline for a big game. That was the 11 play, 84-yard drive that started. So there was a four-yard run, minus one-yard run,

and then the 39-yard pass to T. Higgins. That drive ended with Chase Brown's touchdown. And then McPherson with the extra point. I should also add Cody Ford had to catch today. That was pretty cool. So, again, just a really good day for the Bengals. I get it that you've been eliminated from playoff contention. It's unfortunate.

But at the same time, you're trying to build momentum for next season. When you watched what happened, what transpired around the league so far today, I know the Eagles and Bills are playing right now. Philadelphia is up 10-0. Giants are up 17-3 on the Raiders. When you watched what went on around the league today, from what you have seen, what stood out to you? guys.

Coach, I'll start with going to go ahead, Mike. I was shocked that I was surprised that the Browns beat the Steelers. I felt like at points in that game. I wasn't fully watching

I'm watching the Bengals game, but just checking and just seeing, man, that Steelers office can't move the ball. I know DK is an issue, but that's a must-win game against a team that is eight games under 500. And then I saw a stat that said the Steelers are 04.

and one in their last five games against teams on eight games under 500. So to me, that's almost as impressive as Tomlin's winning season streak is that he keeps losing these games to teams that he needs to beat. And this is a win and you win the division game. And now it's a winner takes all next week. I thought that was insane earlier this week, too. Man, for all the thoughts I had going into the game of two backup quarterbacks dueling, great offensive performances in the Ravens Packers game, where Malik Willis looked very good, but also Steve Huntley looked good. Derek Henry's an insane runner.

That's where I also kind of had the trepidation about them. I know the Bengals were bearing the Ravens. I think they are, but I watched that game, and I'm not sure. Coach, but Derek Henry have been like a player you would have loved to coach. Oh, how can you not? I mean, I tell you what, that big, I mean, he is huge. And I know this, the last time, you know, had the coordinator wanted to to play small ball and shorten that game by about 40 minutes, he could have ran the ball against

the Bengals every snap. Yeah. And he would have just kept chewing it up, but they, he wanted to throw the ball against him. That kid, and I kept thinking the other night when Derek Henry is just running through and nobody wanted to tackle him, it's late in this season, it's cold, and I'm thinking, And okay, Jerry Jones, you couldn't come up with enough money for this guy? That was a big conversation last year. You're right.

I mean, they're going to put you over the top regardless of how bad your defense is. Yeah, that's a good point. It's a great point that you bring out there. 216 rushing yards last night. Tremendous performance by the Ravens. They'll play Pittsburgh next week in Pittsburgh for the AFC North title. winner goes to the playoffs as the ace and our champions. Loser is eliminated.

So that'll be interesting to see. I'll tell you when and coach you and I were talking about this yesterday, what really impressed me, the Houston Texans, because if that offense finds any semblance of consistency, you do not want to face that ferocious defense. Will Anderson, Daniel Hunter up front. And then the secondary Henry Toa Toa, Toe, Derek Stingley in the back end. And then they have from 0 and 3 to 11 and 5,

If they've won eight in a row, they can win the division next week if they beat the Colts at home and the Jaguars lose to Tennessee. So really, really impressive stuff from Houston. Later tonight, you've got the Bears and 49ers on Sunday night football. That is going to be an absolutely mammoth of a game. And that tomorrow night, Monday night football, you got the Rams and Falcons. Our next show is going to be on Friday after the new year. So this is our last show before the turn of the year. So I want to wish everybody you, Mike.

and coach and all of our loyal listeners, a happy, healthy new year. Thank you so much for making lockdown Bengals, your first listen of every day, and for making Bengals squad part of your weekly listening routine here. We are a twice a week long-form conversational supplement to lockdown Bengals, one of 28 squad shows on the Lockdown NFL channel at the Lockdown Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network in America and the world your team every day. We're back Friday afternoon, and then we'll be back on either Saturday or Sunday. If the Bengals play Saturday, we may have to change the day of the show,

but if they play Sunday, we'll be back Friday and Sunday after the game. The final game of the regular season, the Bengals hosting the Browns, Miles Garrick could set the NFL single season sack record at Bay Corr Stadium. Wouldn't be surprised if he did. Wouldn't be surprised if he also didn't. So we'll get to that next week. Coach, you'll join me and Jake Liscoe, unless Jake will not be able to do that, Mike, you'll be with us.

and we'll look forward to talking with you all next weekend. Have a great new year, and we will talk to you next time right here on the Bengals Squad show. Bengals winners today, 37 to 14 over the Arizona Cardinals, second straight win, now 6 and 10 on the season. From Mike Santagana at Bengals underscore Sands, for Coach Art Valero at Arthur Valero 54. I'm Alex Frank at Frankie underscore Natty. Have a great rest of your night. Have a great week and a great new year. And we'll talk to you next time right here on the Bengals Squad show on the Locktop Bengals YouTube channel and the Lockdown Podcast Network. the number one sports podcast network in America and the world,

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