Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: Duke Tobin SPEAKS, front office BETTER be RIGHT, Dan Pitcher LEAVING?

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

Bengals "de facto general manager"and Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin spoke with the media today at Paycor Stadium, a rarity considering it is not even a week after the season ended. Alex Frank and Art Valero discuss the biggest takeaways from Tobin's press conference and how fans should feel about his answers to the toughest questions he fielded today. Earlier this week, the Baltimore Ravens fired head coach John Harbaugh after 18 seasons. While Alex believes this actually justifies the Bengals' front office's decision to keep Zac Taylor and Duke Tobin and Taylor's decision to keep his coaching staff intact, it increases the pressure on the front office to be right with what they're doing, and not doing. Speaking of keeping the coaching staff intact, Bengals' offensive coordinator Dan Pitcher is interviewing with the Cleveland Browns for their head coach opening. Should Bengals' fans be worried about him leaving for the City up North? If he does, there's one man Zac Taylor should hire as the Bengals' offensive coordinator. Ja'Marr Chase was named the Bengals' MVP by the Cincinnati chapter of the PFWA this week. Alex and Art discuss who else stood out for the Bengals in an otherwise disappointing season. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Rocket Money Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at http://RocketMoney.com/LOCKEDON Betterhelp This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off at http://BetterHelp.com/LOCKEDON. DripDrop Right now, DripDrop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to http://dripdrop.com and use promo code lockedonnfl. Ultimate QB Ultimate QB is totally free to play, has no ads, and works 100% offline — perfect for when you want to sneak in a quick game or two on the go. Just head over to http://ULTIMATE-QB.COM. FanDuel Today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. So before tip-off, check the FanDuel app and see what’s dropping during NBA Happy Hour — every Friday from 6 to 7:30 PM Eastern. A little basketball, a little action, and a whole lot of Friday energy. PrizePicks Download the PrizePicks app today and use code LOCKEDONNFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LO... Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. Zocdoc Stop putting off your doctor’s appointments and get the care you need. Go to http://Zocdoc.com/lockedonnfl to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm Alex Frank. He's head coach or coach Art Valero. And together, we're going to collaborate to give you the best show we can today. Collaboration, a big theme today from Duke Tobin's press conference coach, wouldn't you say? Absolutely. It was if I heard it once, I heard it a thousand times. As a matter of fact, I did hear it a thousand times. And maybe 1001.

This is the Bengals Squad Show on the Lockdown Bengals YouTube channel and the Lockdown Podcast Network. That is the wrong button. Today, it's the Bengals Squad. Everything Cincinnati Bengals every week. Breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the Queen City, the way only the Lockdown Podcast Network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals Squad Show starts now. Happy Friday.

Welcome to the Bengals Squad Show. This is the Bengals Squad Show on the Lockdown Bengals YouTube channel and the Lockdown podcast network. we are the number one sports podcast, in America and the world, your team every day. We are presented today by Fanduel. If you want to be right in the middle of the action this season,

visit Fanduel.com and place your NFL live bets all season long. As we mentioned, I'm Alex Frank at Frankie underscore Nadi. He's coach Art Valero and 45-year coaching veteran coach. I got to ask you this question to start things off today. Describe the Tampa Bay Buccaneers front office and the Seattle Seahawks front office, was there a collaborative effort within them? Was there a, you know, did everybody know their roles in those front offices? Take us into the front offices that you and the organizations you coached for.

Well, you know, first let me just add in Tampa. I worked under Rich McKay and his staff. And it then became Bruce Allen and his staff. And in Seattle, it was basically, you know, John Schneider. Pete Carroll and their staff. So everybody in the building knew their roles when it came to the development, the identification, and who all the players were.

The scouts came in, they had their meetings with the GM. They would come out and put forth. They didn't have, they didn't have, were true, true scouts. They weren't sending young kids on the road that have never evaluated players and just write up reports, which happens quite a bit these days. They were true older scouts who had seen football develop. And from that standpoint, when they came in, they had their opinion. And you have to remember us as assistant coaches, we just came out to season. So we feel what we need at our particular position and we start watching film on

these players. So it was always important for us to get with the scouts in an area of a kid because we're really unfamiliar with them at that time. And to gain as much knowledge as we were watching film to see who is the system fit, what their character was like, how bright they were not necessarily wonder lick test but you know could they come in they could they communicate can they listen can they learn it was our job for we we got all of this information from the scouts because they're the ones that are you know feet up boots on the ground then we went around watching all those films that we were given we watched them in the morning and in the afternoon we broke down

and studied our previous season to see what we needed to fix, what we liked, what we didn't like, and that really gave us a great evaluation of as a staff of what we needed. You know, I can remember Chris Jenkins played defensive tackle for Carolina. As Sundow plays for the Bengals. Oh, and we, you talk about just. I mean, the guy that I was talking about the other day, the dynamic, just, you know, boy dog. Well, they also had Julius Peppers, right? So we said, you know what, in order for us to succeed, we need to go draft us a young, big offensive guard that can handle him or at least neutralize him.

So that always weighed in the back of our mind. It's something for us to compare to. So it was great. And it happened the same way in Seattle. And then we all collaboratively got together and started going through players where all of a sudden now I'm within the same room with Mike Tomlin or Jerry Gray, and they're showing a DV and they want to know my opinion about that guy. Well, okay, I just...

This is collaboration. This is the first time I've seen him. But I could see him athletically. I could see him the other things where Mike and Jerry would have already started studying them. And they have a better background of them. But at least I was familiar with them because, as John put it, and John was awesome about this, know the league, have some history with everybody in the league, drafted, undrafted, where they went to school, hear it.

So because at one point in time, they will become free agents. And now you have at least a starting background on them. Okay. So I wish the Bengals front office was like Tampa Bay when you were there or Seattle when you were there. And there's a reason why both of those organizations have won Super Bowls within the 21st century. Tampa Bay is won two. Seattle won one back in 2013. they've also been to three.

So I come away from Duke Tobin's press conference. By the way, James Rapine is currently recording a Lockedop Engels Daily episode with Jake Lisco, Mike Santagin, a little under the weather today. We wish him the best. He'll be with us during the off season. So Art and I are here today, slinging yang back and forth between each other like we like to do best. So I come away from Duke Tobin's press conference. I'm not upset with anything he said.

I'm not, you know, going to bash him today. I mean, we've already bashed him enough, as have so many other members of the Cincinnati Bengals Media. I will say that I will say two things. One, I thought he took accountability for the way the 2025 season went. I appreciated that. Number two, I thought he was to a degree transparent. And this was, I think, a really good opportunity for the fact that Duke Tobin spoke after the season, not because a head coach was fired, not because they hired a new head coach,

but after the regular season in which the Bengals were completely disappointing, given the expectations that were there prior to the start of this season. And it was a good opportunity for the media members who asked phenomenal questions. And it was an opportunity for you coach, for me, for all Bengals fans across Cincinnati and the country, to get an under. of how this front office works. Here's what I'm going to say. Okay.

Is it frustrating for him to, for us to hear him say that they're not going to add any more scouts this offseason? Yes, it was, quite honestly. But then he goes into why, and without saying it, why he wholeheartedly believes that the collaboration, which is the thumbnail that we had for this YouTube video today, the collaboration, why he wholeheartedly believes in it. Okay, that's good that you believe in the guys you have and the women that you have in the building. But it better work.

It better work. Because if we're sitting here on this day next year, which will be a Saturday, it'll be the Saturday of week 18. If the Cincinnati Bengals are either A, not in the playoff picture, have already been eliminated from playoff contention, or B, playing on Saturday or Sunday of Week 18 in a win and in, in a win and then need help scenario to get into the playoffs,

we're going to sit here and say, what exactly did you do this offseason? What exactly did you do to improve this team? He was very honest. Duke Tobin was very honest today, coach. He said, we need an increase in talent on defense. Great. What are you going to do to do that?

Are you going to hope that the development of, of younger players like DJ Turner, Dax Hill, Miles Murphy continues to ascend? Or are you going to, as he says, we need leadership on that team? I liked a lot of what he said today, coach, and it echoes a lot of the things you've said. This team needs a leader. This team needs someone on that defense to show them how to win, how to handle expectations, how to go about your business. What do you think of that?

You know what? I am in total agreeance with what you just said. You know, and he also on the other cheek continues after he said we need the help on the defense. He also said he still felt like this was a championship football team. Did you believe that? You're not. I mean, it's great that you believe them because you picked them. And it's great that you believe that.

And I'm sure those players do, but they have not stepped up to the point to where they're there. Now, how much longer can you wait? It's been three years, correct? Yeah, it's been three years since they've been in the playoffs. Had he spoken after each season, not just this year, but the other two, you probably would have heard the exact same thing. Everybody, the future is always bright. And as soon as the Super Bowl is completed, whomever, in it, everybody is undefeated. And it's all brand new. And I hate hearing, I, I, I,

what, hates a harsh word, but I really hate hearing, whether it be players, front office personnel or coaches, say how good they are and what a playoff team they are in the summer. You haven't played anybody. You haven't, you know, you just have your draft. choices. Yeah, you're hoping and wishing and praying that they become the people you think they are. But you're not in a position right now to say that. And I think half the conversation was next year. Well, coach, I mean, I'll be here next year. I mean, who knows? I want to win now. It's like, you know, what, Lou Holtz, win. When? What's important now? Let's win. Bottom line. Yeah, and it's a great point, coach, because, like, you can always save the futures, Brian.

Well, we could be here in three years, two years. Why not now? There's no guarantee you're going to be there in two years or three years. You know, it's interesting. Dan Campbell, you remember this coach. After the NFC championship game, when they lost to San Francisco in 23, and he said, this may be the only shot we get. Two years later, they're not even in the playoffs.

Yeah. And in the previous year, the year after they went to the NFC championship, they were 15 and 2. And everybody was saying, well, this team is better than they were last year. Oh, my God, this is going to be their year. And then they get bow-raced by the Washington commanders, the upstart team last year. So it is really fascinating to think about. You can always say, well, the future's brag. You can always say, well, we could be good in two or three years.

You have Joe Barrow and Jamar, Jason T. Higgins. And Duke Tobin knows that. He acknowledged as such today multiple. times. But he was also correct, which is good. And I appreciate the questions of, well, you have those guys under contract. Now you can focus on fixing the defense. And he did acknowledge that saying that we're going to, you know, see what we can do. See what we can do. And he did say, well, we don't know, even if I did know exactly what we're going to do, I wouldn't share that today. Okay, fine. But like, you have to understand this offseason is make or break for a lot of fans.

this is what expectations and what having greatness at certain positions do to fans. They start to get a little more antsy and a little more un or restless when you continuously lose. This team right now is a losing football team. Now, you can believe that you can get to a championship next year. The Bengals were 4-11 and won the year before they went to the Super Bowl, so it has worked. A lot of things Duke Tobin said today were true. Whether you like it or not, I'm talking to the Bengals fans.

listening to us. Shout out to our loyal listeners. Duke Tobin was true to what he said today, and a lot of it is, okay, I better see something different. I better see you go all in and fix the defense, which has been needing to be fixed the last three years. And I appreciate the accountability. Duke Tobin also said today, coach, and you heard this, he was adamant about how they have not been able to finish games. And that's very true. It's very true. They have 12-1 score losses in the last two seasons. We talked about that a lot on Tuesday. We talked about it. out on Sunday after the final regular season game.

So that again comes from, and he did acknowledge, too, it's also the offensive side of the ball. They allowed 58 points this year, the offense. You can't wait games when you're turning the ball over and it's leading to, you know, defensive scores. You can't do that. You can't win. You know that all too well.

So it's like Duke's acknowledging that it's not just the defense, it's the entire team. But how do you finish those one score games, coach? you need your closer on defense. And where does that come from? It comes from the pass rush. And you had a few of those on your team. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what? And you get those edge players, especially on the road, you know, or better yet, especially at home. When it gets loud and that poor tackle is out there

and he cannot, everything is a silent count, you're forcing them to be in a silent cadence. now all of a sudden that tackle is a hair reactionary hair late just like when Miles Garrett his last his sack to break the record his getoff was incredible yeah I mean that's what you're playing and he was have he was two steps up the field and the tackle had had one kick and so And that's at home. Just think about if they were in Cleveland. So those guys are unbelievable, unbelievably valuable. And, you know, it's important that the middle of the pocket pushes it right into them.

Or they're so athletic and so versatile and so fast that they force it to those big guys in the middle. And boy, it's easy to play coverage when you got that. And, you know, we had Simeon Rice. We had some good, some really good outside rushers that came in and played hard. And it was a different game, too, back then. Now the emphasis is that there are edge players. You know, that's your job. But you still got to collapse the middle.

You still got to collapse the middle and get the quarterback rolling outside the pocket because then you know what that does, it allows for the coverage to blanket wide receivers. And then you can create, and then you can create turnover. So, excuse me, I do think Duke Tobin is right. And he said, and this is what was so great about today, you know, hearing about how he approaches things. You know, we talk about there needing to be more accountability within the, you know, towards the Bengals front office. Well, today, Duke Tobin sat up there for about an hour.

And you could tell he felt the heat a little bit from not just the Cincinnati. Pengel's media members, but I think he also fuels it from the front office. And he talked about how, and this is why, okay, he likes to build the teams from the front on both sides of the ball. Okay, great. The offensive line took some steps this year. Now can you do it on the defensive side of the ball? Can you go out and get guys, excuse me, that can rush the passer up the middle? Can you get that dominant edge rusher that you had the last five years in Trey Hendrickson?

Can you, you know, get a three technique? to nose tackle, whoever it is, can you build in the trenches so you can win those ones score games? It's not just on defense. Can you convert those third and ones or fourth and ones late in the game like you couldn't do in the Super Bowl? So it was great to hear how Duke Tobin approaches it. Now it's another thing to go out there this offseason and do something to build a championship caliber roster. If you say, and I want to believe it because you have Burrow Chasing Higgins and some ascended defensive players, can you go out there, back up your words, and can the collaboration that you talked about a lot today,

can it get the, like it has before, and I give him credit, can it do what it has done before and get the Bengals back to Super Bowl contention? I don't care how far away you are. When you have Joe borrowed Jamar, Jason T. Higgins, you are closer than you think. No question. Hey, you're 70% there. There's 70% there. Now, you know what? And when we talk about pass rush, it's a collaborative effort that the pass rush happens.

It's coverage from the back end to the front. it's the front to the back they have gone out in the last three years and uh please Alex tell me if I'm um off base here and tried to get those edge pieces now who do you say in the draft they have they have in the draft into their credit miles Murphy you got Murphy they got yeah Samar Stewart okay the the rookie gets hurt still got a long way to go Really has a little bit of production, but not a lot. Miles Murphy, on the other hand, he's sitting on the bench watching other people play. And finally gets an opportunity, and then he starts to show what he is.

Well, he was a one. Why wasn't he on the field before working all these kinks out? Because you had a star who doesn't like. you and you don't like him and he can't play. And you're talking about it. Yeah. Right. And he's your second highest paid player on the team. And that hopefully is going to change. That hopefully is going to change. Yes. But again, but again, coach, it's about backing those up. You know, you can, you know, I was talking to my cousin out in the, you know, our living room today watching the press conference. And I said, you know, I hope this is not just a little more than lip service.

And also I think final point I'll make on this is the Bengals front office, I think to a high degree, they are what they are. They're not going to change the number of people that are in their front office. Okay, fine. I understand that. And maybe, excuse me, there is benefit to having a smaller front office in that regard. And the collaboration, you'll have so many voices. Okay, fine.

but can you change some things within that collaboration to build the football team? They've done it before and they deserve some credit, but now you've got to do it again with what you have. And it can be done. It can be done. I truly believe that because in the NFL, you can go from bottom feeder one year to Super Bowl contender the next year. So many teams in the NFL have done it.

One team that was a bottom feeder in 2007, they hired a head coach by the name of John Harbaugh, and woe, he took the Ravens to incredible heights, including a Super Bowl championship in 2012. He's out. He's now out in Baltimore. We'll talk about how this relates to the Bengals decisions this week coming up next right here on the Bengals Squad Show. Today's edition of the Bengals Squad Show is brought to you by Fanduel. The wild card round is here. I can't wait for it.

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your team every day for more information on how to become a member of the Everydayer Club where you will get, among other things, access to the members-only discord, visit Locktimepodcast.com slash every day or so. In about Tuesday, late afternoon, I was lifting weights in the apartment gym here, coach, and I get a text from some family that the Ravens had fired head coach, John Harbaugh, after 18 seasons. As the Ravens head coach, if you haven't seen the tribute video yet, for those of you watching us, highly recommend you watch the Ravens tribute video to John Harbaugh. It is really, really impressive and well done. And the comments, coach, I was reading on Twitter and

Instagram from Ravens fans, the Ravens release statements on those social media platforms. those fans are so appreciative of what John Harbaal did for that organization, for that city, for their football team. Really, really is impressive. But it was just time. And you and I were talking about that on Tuesday when we found out the news. So I ask you, as it relates to the Bengals, they decide to keep their coaching staff and their key personnel people after a third straight season of not missing the playoffs. The Ravens decide to pivot, change course. how do you take that?

I look at it when you compare the two. First of all, I think it's a, whether it was John's time and he felt like he needed to leave, he could have resigned and stated that. But to be fired, obviously the people in ownership in Baltimore don't enjoy winning. They don't enjoy being at the top. or with a chance.

On the other hand, the Bengals, they keep everything. Everything is status quo. What makes you think that things are going to change? And they, Baltimore had a great one. Tell me where they're going to find another John Harbaugh. Not in this coach. No, they're gone out there. That's why everybody is very, very slow in terms of trying to hire people.

There's a reason nobody's hired anybody yet. No, no team that's fired a head coach. Coach, they haven't hired anybody yet. No. They're interviewing the world. They go out there and they want it. It's as if they're interviewing for the future, all these young coaches, and not for the present. And that's when the problem gets to be very, very difficult.

You're allowing these young coaches to practice interviewing, but you have no intentions of hiring them. Or you can pull the Al Davis way, bring them in, interview them, suck out all the knowledge, and then use it against them because you don't hire them. So it's really funny. This hiring cycle is bad. But, you know, and I look at it, and John is a, I mean, he's, good football coach.

Oh, yeah. And what direction you wanted to, we're going to change the direction of the team. What about what direction? They were ascending and their quarterback, their franchise quarterback gets hurt, but yet they continue to win. Not as much as you'd like,

but they win. And it was really kind of an, Ron, I saw an interview with Coach Johnson. the other day. And he was saying that he was sitting in because they did, I believe they did the game on Sunday night. They did. And he was amazed that the winner of that game, the head coach was probably going to keep his job and the other one was going to lose it. Based on a miskick. Right. How is. And how can you do that? You really shouldn't. I mean, you're telling you, me today that if the kick was good, that John would still have a job and Mike would be out? Wow,

what does this league coming to? Well, it's come down to the kicker. That's for one thing. You and I had discussions of you and I had discussions about that earlier this week. I mean, you could argue that this kick on Sunday night was the most consequential kick since Super Bowl 25 when Scott Norwood missed the field goal. Sorry for any Bill's fans that just had to hear me say that. Here's what I'll say. And coach, you make a lot of great points here. The Ravens, are one of the more well-run organizations in the NFL. Their front office is fantastic. Steve Bishatty is a tremendous owner.

I've been to Baltimore and Annapolis and surrounding areas multiple times. And you can tell there is a very communal-like feeling within that city, within that, you know, the relationship of the fan base of the organization, there is a united sense when you go to Charm City and the Mid-Atlantic and Chesapeake Bay, wherever. So it is going to be very weird, I think, from our perspective, for the Ravens to have a new head coach for the first time since the George Bush administration, as crazy as that is for me to say. So here's what I'll say. And I've thought a lot about this in the near 72 hours since John Harbaal was fired. You can want teams.

If you're a fan of a team, you can want them to pull out all the stops. You can want them to be desperate to win. I get all that. But sometimes desperation doesn't work. Sometimes patience prevails over desperation. And that may be hard for Bengals fans to hear this. But also, John Harbaugh had three years left on his deal. And the Ravens, because they have not been successful in the playoffs,

since they won the Super Bowl 13 years ago, their four and seven cents in the playoffs, they decided to move on. You're getting to the playoffs. And the Bengals are saying, we have an ascending young defense, as hard as that may be for some fans to see, but you and I have had these conversations.

Mike has had him with us, Jake has had him with us, and I've had conversations with other Bengals beatwriters about this. The defense is descending. They are getting better. So why would you bring in new voices again on that side of the ball after you did it last year and it didn't work? So sometimes in this particular coaching cycle, and I do believe Mike Brown is smart enough to know this, I think I've always said he's a very smart man, sometimes he's just stubborn.

The Bengals realize that the grass may not be greener if they bring in somebody besides Zach Taylor, who has gotten them to the Super Bowl. Like that stuff does matter. The last three seasons are not a direct result of him. it's the front office giving him the deck of cards that hasn't been great. And so you look at that and you say, okay, the Bengals are doing it this way. The Ravens are doing it this way. What does that say about where Lamar Jackson's going?

I don't know. What are they going to look like next year? You know what the Bengals are going to look like on offense. That's good. Yep. But what, so it's like all I'm going to say is, You better be right because the Ravens to some Bengals fans are being way more accountable for their shortcomings and failures than the Bengals are. So if you're the Bengals, find that you kept your coaching staff the same.

And I do think it's what's best, but you better be right. No doubt. Hey, and unless Baltimore has another Mike McDonald in the building, they let him go. And look what he's doing. You know, Dan Quinn was in Dallas. They let him go and one year later they fire Mike McCarthy. If they were going to make that move, make it now, but elevate now. So that person does not get out of the building.

And it's like Kevin Stefansky just gets fired and he's going to end up with a better job then the one he got fired from. You know, why? Because of what management put him under. And that's crazy to me. It is really crazy when you look at it. Is the job of a head coach, let me ask you this coach,

with John Gruen and Pete Carroll. Now, those organizations have great front offices. But for organizations like the Bengals, or let's say the Chargers or the New Orleans Saints, is the job of a head coach to overcome the deficient? sees that their front office has. Is that what part of the job is? Well, it is.

It is because it really comes down to, and the question was asked today, who's in charge of the final 53? And the answer was, it's a collaborative effort. So no one is taking responsibility for your opening day roster. It's collaborative. It's the whole team. But who's getting shot in the head? the head coach who had a minute say in it because it was collaborative.

So it's always good like Pete had the final say in the final 53. And John had the say in the final 53 after Rich McKay left. Because Rich was, he's the one who hired Tony. He built the team for Tony And they just couldn't get it on get it done on offense And he wanted to which wanted to hire Marvin Lewis Before they brought in John But they thought they were getting the same thing

You know so you know whose team is it And what are the parameters in which we're working under So yeah the head coach is the one who's gonna he's his name's on the marquee Not the GM unless you're in Dallas. But, you know, they're the ones that are going to take the hit, and they're the ones that are going to have to answer the questions, and they might not have ever had a say in it.

So it's really difficult. And for Zach to be one of many, and they didn't say how many get to make those choices, but probably those many don't have as much experience or know the direction. They might have heard the direction. but they don't know the day-to-day direction of which the team is going. And that's hard.

It is. And I go back to the first thing you said about Kevin Stefansky and like the Cleveland Brown decided to move on from him. What success was in Cleveland before Kevin Stefansky got there? And this is the problem I have when there are fans. And I agree with them that every organization should be desperate in pulling out all the stops to win. I think a lot of that stems from what they saw with the Philadelphia Eagles last year. Now, Howie Roseman is one of one when it comes to being a general manager,

in my opinion. They also have a fantastic owner in Jeffrey Lurie. But I think what's interesting is look at coach, you mentioned two organizations, the Browns and the Raiders. Okay. Well, they just continuously fire head coaches. They continuously cycle through quarterback, cycle through general managers. It's like you keep. starting over at some point you have to let what you have materialize and if it takes off great and if it doesn't then you start over so the Bengals are in a position where they have the offense as you said they're 70% set and their defense showed some things last year where if you change your coaching staff again that's just going to mess with them psychologically you

can't do that so that's why you have to change within what you have to change within what you without bringing necessarily outside voices when it comes to the front office and the coaching staff. Is that going to make some fans angry? Yes, it's made me angry a little bit. But I understand it. If you think about it, this is actually, and Bull Daniel Jr. wrote about this in the athletic. Austin Elmore talked about this on ESPN 1530 here in Cincinnati. This is what is best right now for the organization.

The Browns and Raiders haven't had consistent success because they keep starting over. They keep starting over. The Bengals at least are trying to make it work. And I appreciate that. And you can win with this. I mean, look at the Miami Dolphins coach. They just fired Mike McDaniel. You understand the Dolphins haven't won a playoff game in like 25 years? They keep starting over. And that's the Miami Dolphins. One of the proudest franchises in NFL history. Absolutely. You know, they, it's when you continue to start over, and you don't. And you know what?

I admire. And being a coach, I'm all for the coaches. And if you feel, if you guys feel very, very strongly about who you have and the direction in which, A, the offense, because you've got to continue to get better, you've got great skill players right now. And for Duke to mention that it's built up front. and he feels strongly about that. But it hadn't been, oh, forever, since for a long time that those front guys were really, really good.

And you have to say that goes all the way back to Munoz or Rimmers and, you know, that crew. That is building it up front on both sides of the ball. And so show me, don't tell me, show me where you're, importance lies. Exactly. And that's the great thing about football is it's a show me game. You've got 70,000 people every week wanting to see what you'll you have. And they only get eight to nine times a year at home. Right. And the other time they're on their couch watching you and they're loyal about it. So conversely, if you're going to say it, go do it. Don't tell me about, you know, how rough the seas are, just bring the boat home.

That's all we want. Yes. We put so much money and time as fans into your product. Duke Tobin got up there and said what he believes. Great. Show me. That's where we're at. The Ravens are starting over, but the Ravens have a better track record than you.

The Bengals are staying status quo, and they may change the, roster, that's fine. One of those teams, maybe both, one of those teams is going to be right. It better be you. Right. Excuse me. And Cleveland. Yeah. You know what? You've got. Pittsburgh may start over. Yeah. You've got 50% of your conference starting over. And you and Pittsburgh are the only ones that are still standing. And Mike hasn't had a losing season since he's been there. Yeah.

So that's who you're chasing. That's who you've got to beat. That is who you have to be better than. Week in, week out, and they've got a system of defensive people and who they're looking for. And so they're never going to be short that way. Offensively, they just got to find their footing and who they are. You know, they could be wide open Todd Haley or they can be slow the ball down. you know, with Arthur Smith.

They've proven both ways that they can win. There's multiple ways to run a football team, and we've seen the Bengals and Ravens take different approaches. But if you're the Bengals, and the other thing, too, is if they had made the playoffs in 24, I don't know if fans would be as disappointed and frustrated with the team as they are now. But it's just that what happened last season

and then this season and all that went into it, fans are angry, and they have the absolute right to be that way. Unfortunately, there actually may be a change on the Bengals coaching staff coming. Offensive coordinator, Dan Pitcher, is interviewing with the Cleveland Browns. Do we think that he could, in fact, head up I-71 to the city of north? And if he does, who should the Bengals look to replace him an offensive coordinator? We will do that and discuss that next right here on the Bengals Squad Show.

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Expect more from your money. Get started today at robin hood.com slash your money. Again, that's robin hood.com slash your money. Your money, your move. Bangles Squad rolling on on a Friday, January 9th of 2026. You know, this is what is so cruel about this week. Okay. aside for the Bengals not being in the playoffs.

But this week, or today, is the 10-year anniversary of what has become known as the meltdown at Paul Brown, where the Bengals just completely self- imploded in that playoff game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yesterday was the 20-year anniversary of Carson Palmer getting his knee shredded against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs. Coach, when you hear those two days, those two moments, in playoff history, what goes through your mind? Oh, there's a black cloud. Yesterday, yesterday there was a black cloud. And be careful of January was the ninth.

Stay away from that. Hopefully you don't play a playoff game on that date. I bring these up because those two moments in Bengals history, they should be in the oblivion. but because of the way the last three seasons have gone, particularly this season, it's like it's, it's like those scars have been reopened. They shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't.

All right. I just had to throw it in there. Also, yesterday was the Beastquake anniversary, the 15 years. Coach, I texted you yesterday. I mean, every time I watched that run, it's like he literally outran the entire defense of the New Orleans Saints. 11 guys could not bring down beast mode. No. You know what?

It was as exciting watching it years later as it was standing on the sideline. And it was crazy because I had a vantage point at an angle. So I was behind the offense. And once he broke the second level, that's when the crowd erupted. it. And it was like, whoa. I mean, you couldn't hear as you're running down the field chasing it. And it just went bananas. And, you know, to see it again was awesome. And like the quote I sent you, hey, I feel the earth move under my feet. And that's a Carol King song from tapestry years ago. But that's what it was. That place rock. and I've never been in any place like that before. It's amazing. And it was incredible.

Every time I watch that play, and this is the sportscaster in me, so Tom Hammond and Mike Mayock were on the call-back game for NBC. The way they called that, and Mike Mayock's analysis of that play, it's truly one of the greatest plays in the history of the NFL playoffs and even the NFL. All right. So Bengals' offensive coordinator, Dan, pitcher who's been in that position the last two seasons. He's been the Bengals quarterback's coach since Joe Burrow got here in 2020.

He's interviewing for the Cleveland Browns head coaching position. Should he take it if he gets offered the job coach? Well, I think as a young coach, which he is, everybody wants to be a head football coach. Because, A, when you get there, you finally get to run your show, right? You are intended. But I think that young coaches have to really seriously look at. One, the major benefit is you're one of 32 on the planet that has a position like you have. Okay.

That's very rare. Two, it gives your family generational wealth. So whether you coached it down after that or not, you're already set. You and your family, you and your immediate family, life, right? They make enough money, right? They can continue to go. On the bad side of it, as you look at it, and it's, they're looking for a head coach for a reason, because the last guy, or the last two guys could not do it. So you take that into account, who's making the 53, the final 53 roster calls? Who are my quarterbacks? And am I now, do I get Dylan?

Is he my quarterback? Is Shadour my quarterback? Is there the player to be named later to be my quarterback? Are we going to have the circus around that position? Because that's a headache you really don't want. And then from the top down, what is the say? Do I have to play who you want me to play? And then what's going to happen to the defense, which really wasn't bad?

You know, Jim Schwartz did a great job. If you keep the defense and now you're the head coach and you're running the offense, and now you have not a team, you have an offense and a defense. So how does that flow together? And so, you know what, I wish him the best, but it's a difficult position to be put in to find out when you cannot bring your own people. And I think a lot of coaches have that problem. They take a head coaching job, ownership tells them who to hire, who to play, and the next thing you know three years from now, they're the ones to go.

And that's always hard. Because now, no longer in modern day football, but it used to be you get a head coaching job one time. And you never get a response after that. You're one and done. So you've got to make it your best. And you have to at least have a 70% chance of winning. Well, that's hard to say. But everything's got to align to where.

If it doesn't work, it's on you, not on a collaborative group of people. I see where you're going with this. And that's where I really like what you're saying, because the Cleveland Browns just fired Kevin Stefansky, who is their most successful head coach since the Browns came back to Cleveland in 1999. So you're going into a really difficult position. On top of that, as you mentioned, coach, the Brown's ownership group is, not very patient.

They're always in start over mode, not win now mode. They're in start over mode. It seems like every three years. So that's going to be a very difficult job to have. You don't know if Shador Sanders has hit a quarterback. You don't know what you're going to have. You know you're going to have Miles Garrett and Mason Graham and all those great guys on defense. That's fine.

But offense wins games. Worry about the defense when he gets to the playoffs. But you got to win games to get to the playoffs. So for me, it'd be a. a very difficult position for Dan Pissure to walk into. Now, has he earned the right to interview for a head coach? Absolutely. Absolutely. You look at the way his offenses have been over the last two seasons. The way he's unlocked the tight end positions, Mike is, Mike Asicki, Drew Sample, Tanner Hudson, Noah Fancy even this year. I know he fumbled three times and then we're all returned for touchdowns.

Yes, but he also caught his fair share of touchdowns. So you have those things. within a damn pitcher offense. It just looked like there was more, there were more elements to it. The running game was better. The unpredictable nature of the offense was better with Dan pitcher. I really liked what he did in unlocking some of those parts of it. So he's earned the right to interview for a head coach.

If he does move on, is there one name, one offensive coordinator out there, that you would want the Bengals to bring in and be the offensive coordinator of this team? Well, I think that they would have to coincide, be able to coexist with Zach Taylor. True. Because even if they had the title and the play caller is a different human, he's a different person. And so they have to be very, very, very close together. So you can't just go out and hire Mike McDaniel and bring him in.

even though he's an offensive savant, you can't bring him in because he doesn't fit what they're currently doing. So that's when you might as well bring somebody that's within the building up, elevate them just like they did with Dan and allow him to learn Zach's system. I mean, one thing about Dan,

that Dan did a great job and people kind of, you know, don't really give him the credit for. is you had Joe Flacco come in in two days start and win a game and carry them through, even though they didn't win them all. Offensively, they really didn't slow down. They just continued to develop those pieces to put them in a chance to win. And so he did a phenomenal job.

And he has, like you say, he has earned the right to interview and to see how other people and other organizations, run things to see if he's more suited for that. Now, to be able to go out and find one, that person had better be, they've got to learn a new language or teach a new language. They've got to be able to become very familiar with the personnel, both physically,

professionally, and personally. And so he has a pulse. I think Dan's got a great pulse on the offense right now. on the offense right now. And that's hard. So he has earned the right. He's kind of caught right now. And he deserves more than one interview.

Yes. I agree with you that there are benefits to promoting from within. As far as if Dan Betcher does lead, the Bengals new offensive coordinator, it worked the last time to Zach Taylor's credit. But so many people that I've talked with have said, think about Mike McDaniel, he can really unlock Joe Burrow.

Now, Joe Burrow doesn't need unlock. We know he's great. But if you want to take Joe Burrow to the next level and this offense to the next level, Mike McDaniel was Kyle Shanhan's offensive coordinator in San Francisco. He didn't call plays, but he was a big part of that offense. So it could work. But to your point, again, with the theme of this offseason on the coaching staff, at least being continuity, they may promote from within.

Obviously, disappointing, go ahead. Okay, something just came across my mind right now, Alex. Say it. Very similar situation. Atlanta had Kyle Shanahan as a coordinator. They go to a Super Bowl. Yeah, they did. Right.

Kyle gets a head coaching job, and they knew it was going to happen from a long way away, right? That was the ultimate thing that was going to happen. Kyle Leeds. DQ, Dan, Quinn, decides not to elevate from within. Matt LaFleur, Mike McDaniel. Right? He brings in Sarkesian.

And two years later, Dan Quinn's gone. That's a great point. The next year, Mike McDaniel goes to L.A. They don't protect him. They let him go to L.A. and then he gets a head coaching job in the Packers. Mike goes to San Francisco with Kyle. You let him get out of the building. He goes to Miami and becomes the head coach.

That's when you can move, when you have people, I should say too, when you have people that can be elevated, you as the head coach and as the GM or whoever is making that decision has to be Larry of who is in the building and who is capable of you setting the table and bringing them along and cultivating them to be that guy if these people leave. I love that. That was an important fact to let everybody else. I love it.

I love that because I think so many times we think about, well, eventually these coordinators are going to become head coaches, and the head coaches are going to have to live with that. That's fine. But at the same time, if you can give them an elevation within your organization, they may take it. Look at the Detroit Lions. Ben Johnson, one year after he leaves,

and the Lions are already on the market for another offensive coordinator. No doubt. You know what? It's always amazed me that when you have a guy, like a damn pitcher, okay, you have a guy that's ascending, his name is out there has a good offense you gave him the title he's going and he's rising and he's not long for here do you have you as an organization hired his replacement is his replacement

on staff and you have to do that and if you don't you're the one who's going to be constantly looking for for mercenaries to come in and save the day and that's always hard. Yes. Man, this is such a great discussion. I was not expecting to get into, you know, about, hey, you know what? You know you're going to lose coordinators eventually who says you actually have to let that happen. Those are great points, Coach.

I really appreciate where you took that. Okay. So a lot of not so great stuff in the news for the Bengals this week for obvious reasons. We're going to end today's show on Feel Good Friday with some positives from the 2025 Bengals because there were some. And Coach, I know you, I think I know where you're going to go with this. We'll get into that to round out this edition of the Bengals Squad Show next right here. Let's be real.

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slash lockdown. Again, that's RocketMoney.com slash locked on. Rocketmoney.com slash locked on. All right. So we're going to end, oops. We're going to end with a, some positive stuff today on the Bengals Squad show. We're going to talk about standouts from the 2025 Bengals season. Jamar Chase named the Bengals team MVP by the Cincinnati chapter of the Pro Football Writers Association. They do a fantastic job, by the way. So I agree with that. Jamar Chase is the team MVP. 125 receptions with three different starting quarterbacks. I'll take it. Not to mention three touchdowns from three different starting quarterbacks. But there were some other guys that stood out to me, coach. I'm going to give you my breakthrough performer of

2005. Chase Brown, the Bengals running back went over 1,000 yards, considering the not so great start he got up to this season with the opposite line still in flux and finding its footing. Chase Brown really came on strong. And by the way, he finished second on the team in receptions. That's pretty good. I totally agree. I tell you what, he became that featured back that you want. And, you know, when we first started the show, Chase said he was, he was the guy that was playing, but Pryne was injured, I believe, at that time. And so when he came back and all of a sudden Pryan was the one who started, they may have a philosophy as you don't lose your job by entry.

I, you know, I agree with that. But you're obviously the hot hand was still, was still Chase. And he just continued to get better and better and better. both out of the backfield, in the backfield in terms of protection, and running the football. And I would give him, definitely, I'd give him a trophy. 17 starts this year and 17 games, obviously 1,456 yards from scrimmage, rushing, and receiving a combined 11 touchdown, 69 receptions in total on the season. But coach, you can't have a good running game about a good offensive line.

Got to give them some love, too, for the way they played this season. I think. Oh, absolutely. You know what? The inside three were very, very stout, and they create a lot. You've got a right tackle who's ascending. Absolutely. You just keep working with that kid because he is going to be good. And you know what? You have to management, because he is ascending, you're going to have to start to work on him because you may lose him in a couple of years. I don't know what the length of the time. But you shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to get out in front into the contract extension no doubt and you know what i thought they did a great job and i love the fair child kid uh tough young uh you know learning every day you know

but he's next to two two veterans that are kind of helping him out and showing him the way when he gets in tough times and then you got a you know you got a crusty old uh uh uh risin risner who's you know just salty and he's got a lot and loves being there. Yeah, no, they, those guys, when they put their hard hat on, go to work, they, they enjoy going to work. And you can tell, you can tell. It got so, from week seven on, this offensive line played really good football. I, I really think that. And I'll say that, I said this point on a show earlier this week, I'll say it again. If you are able to get Don Reisner assigned, which you should, he clearly wants to be here. Your guard tandem is set.

With Dylan Fairchild going into just a year or two and Don Reisner still having a lot of meat on the bone, your guards are set. And Ted Caris has shown he's still at a quoted center and your tackles. Orlando Brown Jr. I mean, I don't know if he's as fast as he used to be. That's okay. he still provides something. He's a leader. He's a leader on that line and on the team.

But that's where you can go out and sign somebody at a lower deal maybe to provide some competition, draft somebody. You have ways to keep this offensive line afloat. Who was your breakthrough performer on defense? Oh, I'd have to say Miles Murphy. Yeah. You know, he showed me. that he continued to improve his craft.

But while doing that, his effort was relentless. And that goes to show you why you're working your craft and getting better. I mean, the one talent you can't coach is effort. And he kind of showed. Yeah, he showed me what he's capable of doing. and he is ascending as we speak. It's hard for me to go against him, and I love everything you just said.

DJ Turner, though, is my breakout star. Because of the adversity he faced this season, he was benched at one point. And then he comes back. He wins the starting job. You have your franchise CB1 right in your building. You do. You think about, you know,

Cam Taylor Britt two years ago was going to be that guy. fell off. One man's trash, another man's treasure, and DJ Turner has taken full advantage of the opportunities that were given to him. He took the benching the right way. It motivated him. He worked harder, and now it's paying off. So the defense did make a lot of strides this season. Evan McPherson was a positive this year, coach. Evan McPherson played a lot. I know he didn't have a great end of the season, but he had some really good moments this season. Six field goals on Thanksgiving, four field goals against Pittsburgh at home and including the game winner 35 yards. Good, good stuff from him.

And the other thing, too, coach, is you beat the Steelers at home in primetime on a Thursday night. You beat the Ravens on the road on Thanksgiving night. That stuff does matter, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, it does. You know what? His value, I mean, he missed a couple of his last game, but his overall value, shoot, I had to give him a plus. And now he's an A.

You know what? He's still an A. And that kid has nothing to hang his head about. He did his job in more than one game. And one game doesn't define you. Does not. You're absolutely right. All right.

Let's go rapid fire here. NFL playoffs start tomorrow. They go Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, two games tomorrow, three games Sunday, one game on Monday. Rapid Fire with our picks. Rams Panthers, coach, who you got? Rams. Yeah, I got to agree.

you there. I love the job Dave Canales has done. I know you coached with him in Seattle. I just feel like they're, I don't think they're at the Rams level yet. 3124 Rams beat the Panthers. Packers, bears. The Rams are also, their season when it comes to the postseason. And this is, this is Carolina's first time in in a long time. So I got to put it on the veterans going into this game. I'll say this, though. It's the Rams second trip to the East Coast in three weeks. And they're on a short week. That stuff does matter. as you know. Yeah, it does. Green Bay, Chicago, Saturday night, who you got? Good.

I got to go with the Bears. I agree with you. I'm picking Bears 2713. I think they can run the Packers right out of Soldier Field. Yeah, you know what? And hey, for both teams, weather is not an issue. Oh, no. And so that in itself, they're going to go out there. They'll play hard Midwest football. they will black and blue division relived. And so it's going to be exciting. Playoff football as it should be. Bill's Jaguars on Sunday and a matchup of AFC gun slingers. Who do you like in this one?

You know what? This is the game that I'm really excited to watch. Same here. I want to see Jacksonville and I want to see their young quarterback. You know, shoot, we've been not able to really watch him. excuse me, Trevor Lawrence, because of the situation that they've been in. And now he's finally coming to national prominence. You know, let's see how he does against a defense that's faltering a little bit.

But yet you still have, you got it, the ace of the hole is on the other side on Josh Allen. And you know what? He's due. Josh Allen is due to make this breakthrough to get not even with, but keep himself ahead of the Patrick Mahomes and the Lamar Jackson's and those guys. Because you know what? Right now he's the last man standing. If not this year, then when for Josh Allen.

I think it's a very strong narrative this week. I'm taking Jacksonville 3431. I think their kicker Cam Little will go from 52 yards as time. expires Jacksonville with a giant victory over the bills. Next game on Sunday, West Coast versus East Coast, Niners, Eagles, and Philly. Oh, that's going to be so good. That one right there will be. I mean, they're all good.

It's going to be interesting to see what Philadelphia comes out like offensively. Yes. They have multiple faces. So you don't really know what you're going to see. You know what you're going to get from Kyle Shanahan's offense. There's going to be multiple formations, lots of movement, you know, some different schemes you haven't seen in a while. And they'll establish something. I think that one right there to me is going to be a shootout.

I think it's, you know, like a 24-21. I got to go with Kyle with Kyle and the 49ers. Okay. I'm going to agree with you there. I think the Niners win 34-31. George Kittle with a game winning touchdown to silence Lincoln Financial Field. Niners just continue to overcome adversity this season. Sunday night football.

This was a matchup prominent back in the late 2000s. Chargers, Patriots in Foxborough, the Patriots first home game since Tom Brady's last game was the Patriots. Who are you liking this one? This should be a good one. Two head coaches that have their inference all over those teams cultures. No doubt. And you know what? I have to go into it.

You know, one thing about Jim Harbaugh, they're going to go out there and establish the run and let Justin Herbert beat him with play action. But I got to go with Mike Vrable. I think he's done a phenomenal job of what he has done with that team. And it'll be very interesting to see some of those young players that they're playing with who have perhaps not been in a playoff situation before. let them go out and play and earn their stripes towards moving on. Drake Mays my pick for MVP. He's having a Joe Burrow-esque second season. I think the Patriots win a rock fight 24 to 17.

Monday night football, we got a good one in the city by three rivers, the Texans and the Steelers. The Steelers coach, before you make your prediction, the Steelers have not lost a Monday night home game since 1992. Oh, that's crazy. Shoot, that's back when I was like 32 years old. So they, you know what? I got to go with the defense.

I think Domingo Rines has done a fabulous job in Houston. I think that their offense will show up and score some points because they are a little bit lax in Pittsburgh on the defensive side of the ball this time of year. but I can't get over how good the Houston Texans defensive football team is and how opportunistic they become. CJ Stroud, and by the way, you still look 32. CJ Stroud has been terrific in two wildcard games. I just worry about them going on the road.

It's going to be cold in Pittsburgh. It's been warm here this week, but it's going to be colder in Pittsburgh Monday night. I'm going to take the Steelers in a close one, 26, 23, Chris Boswell of 39 yards as time expires. Regardless, this is going to set ourselves up for an even better divisional weekend next weekend. Went a little long, that's okay. We love talking NFL playoffs, which start tomorrow. This has been our second offseason show of Bengals Squad. We got two more next week, two more every single week until the start of the season.

The offseason grind is here. We're here with you. Coach, thank you, as always. Have a great weekend out. in SoCal, I'll do the same here in Cincinnati. Don't forget to check out James Rapine and Jake Liskow and their episode from Duke Tobin's press conference today on Lockdown Bengals, available on the Lockdown Bengals, YouTube channel and wherever you listen to Lockdown Bengals, which is part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network in America and the world,

your team every day. For more on how to become a member of the Everydayer Club, visit Lockdownpodcast.com slash everydayer. Thank you for listening this afternoon. Have a great weekend. Have a great start to the week. to you Tuesday afternoon right here on the Bengals Squad Show, which is part of lockdown Bengals and the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.