Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: Is Trey Hendrickson REALLY GONE? CONFIDENCE LEVEL in Al Golden? Super Bowl LX

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

All signs point to the Bengals and Trey Hendrickson moving on this offseason. But is there any way, any situation in which he could be back in 2026? Alex Frank, Mike Santagana, and Coach Art Valero discuss if it is a foregone conclusion that Hendrickson will not be a Bengal in 2026 and who the Bengals could replace him with. Speaking of the Bengals' defense, what is the confidence level in defensive coordinator Al Golden? Can he turn the Bengals' defense around in 2026? On the other side, wide receivers coach Troy Walters is one of the most underrated successful position coaches in the NFL. Alex has a an idea that would keep Walters in the building... and help Zac Taylor. Finally, the guys make their predictions for Super Bowl LX and discuss this year's Pro Football Hall of Fame class and how Ken and Willie Anderson were left on the outside looking in. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! TurboTax For a limited time, you can have your taxes done by a local TurboTax expert for just $150 — all in, if a TurboTax expert didn’t file for you last year. Just file by February 28. Visit http://TurboTax.com/local to book your appointment today. FanDuel If you’re a new customer, bet just $5 and get $200 in Bonus Bets if you win. Make it count — because after the Super Bowl, the season is over. Last call for football on FanDuel, an Official Sportsbook Partner of Super Bowl Sixty. PrizePicks Download the PrizePicks app today and use code LOCKEDONNFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LO... Gametime Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDON for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. Robinhood Trade Every Play with Robinhood. Now available across the U.S. Download the Robinhood app now to begin. Futures and cleared swaps trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives, LLC., a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm Indeed Listeners of this show get a $75 Sponsored Job Credit to help give your job the premium placement it deserves at http://Indeed.com/lockedonnfl. Gusto Try Gusto today at http://gusto.com/lockedonNFL and get three months free when you run your first payroll. Quo Make this the year where no opportunity — and no customer — slips away. Try Quo for free plus get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to http://Quo.com/lockedonnfl. Betterhelp This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off at http://BetterHelp.com/LOCKEDON. DripDrop Right now, DripDrop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to http://dripdrop.com and use promo code lockedonnfl. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm Alex Frank. All signs are pointing to Trey Hendrickson not being a Bengal in 26. But Mike Santagina, the Bengals need for a pass rusher kind of complicates that, and that may just create the small possibility that Trey Hendrickson could be back next year. If they don't bring Trey back, I mean, it's a pretty big black hole for their pass rush. It's not one of the better units on the team. And coach, you talk about players and coaches not leaving the building. One guy that Bengals can't let leave the building, Troy Walters. We'll get to coach in just a second.

This is Bengals Squad. Definitely one of those guys you can't let out of the building. Absolutely not. There are coaches. Mike is working. We're all here. Happy Friday. This is Bengals Squad on Locked up Bengals and the Locked On Podcast Network.

Today, it's the Bengals squad. Everything Cincinnati Bengals every week. Breaking down all the big hits and game changing plays from the Queen City, the way only the Lockdown Podcast Network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals. squad show starts now. Yes, it does happy Friday. Welcome to the Bengals Squad

Show on lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast network, the number one sports podcast, number in America and the world, your team every day. We're presented today by Fan duel. It is the last call for football on Fan duel. If you're a new customer, bet just $5 and get $200 in bonus bets if you win.

I'm Alex Frank, joined by Mike Santagana and Coach Arfulero. He's having some camera. Just some, I don't know how to word it, but we'll get him back here in just a second. We got a lot to get to on the show today. We're talking, of course, about Trey Hendrickson, confidence level and defensive coordinator, Al Golden. Why the Bengals can't let Troy Walters, wide receivers coach leave the building. I have a solution, actually, that could be beneficial for our parties involved. We'll talk about our picks for Super Bowl 60,

give our picks rather, and of course, the big news from last night. Ken Anderson, Willie Anderson, once again, not in the pro football hall of fame. We got coach Art Valero, 45-year coaching Veterans Super Bowl 37 champion with the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. It is Super Bowl week, Super Bowl Sunday, just two days away, just over 48 hours away. Believe it or not. But the first conversation today, gentlemen, Trey Hendrickson, and look, James Rapine and Jake Liscoe shout out to them. They talked about this on Locked out Bengals earlier this week. All signs are pointing to Trey Hendrickson not being here in 2026.

And I do think that is the path that these two sides, the Bengals front office and Trey Hendrickson are going ultimately, that's what it's ultimately going to lead to. But then again, then again, talk about needs for this team. Pass rush is one of them. You have one in the building. Why let him go? I think when you look at it, the sides just may be ready to both move on. I understand on paper, this is a need. This is something that needs to be done for the team, that this would help the a lot to have Trey Anderson around, of course. But when you look at it, how much does Trey want to be in Cincinnati? If he doesn't want to be in Cincinnati, is he willing to hold out? He held out a little bit last year, but obviously they got to what, that one year, you know,

raise or whatever, and it all worked out. They have control right now with the ability to franchise tag, but it just feels should they? Because they're not. working it doesn't seem like they're working with tray to reach any type of agreement that he wants to sign so it's a little frustrating i think tray would like to move on i don't think the bangles want to let the talent leave but they also don't want to keep him around that long because they're not really working towards any type of extension so could that money be better used to find somebody who will 100% be here throughout all of training camp boteers etc as well as some other And then you allow trade to either walk or you tag and trade him or something along those lines where he's he's going to give you something back that's not just a comp pick.

Maybe you can get something for this year. And you can control a little bit on where he goes so that you don't end up seeing him twice a year. It doesn't make sense. I think on paper you look at this, you go Bengals, they would, they could use defense. They could use a pass rush. well they've got one of the best pass rushers of the past three years and the deal just doesn't seem like it's being done so where do you go from there this is a classic case coach you talk about this metaphor a lot on this show you're letting what's behind door one you're passing that up for what's behind door two whether that be internal within your within your team on your roster

and i don't think that the bengals have any lead pass rusher obviously on their roster right now. So you're saying, okay, we don't think Trey Hendrickson's that guy anymore. So we're going to go get one, hopefully. But then again, you have him in the building already. And that's why, coach, I think this is not as simple as he's just going to not be here next year. How about you? Well, you know what? When you start to look at the whole situation throughout the year, the whole last year with the off season and during the season, there's some bad blood that, you you have to trust each other in order to get the best out of somebody. And if somebody doesn't want to be in the building, they would rather move on,

then you certainly have to let them go. Now, on the other hand, from a front office standpoint, you're not just going to let him go without getting anything in return other than salary cap hit. you better get because you don't let a good player out of the building until you got a replacement for him. So they're going to allow this thing to drag on. And unfortunately, they're going to wait for the, you know, they'll dangle to put a tag on him. They'll dangle a lot, try to trade him to see if they can get something and recoup something for him. The mismanagement of Trey Hendrickson has just been a saga.

It's been soap opera-esque. And I just hope that the Bengals, if they are going to move on from him, have learned from what they haven't done or have done, and ultimately do what they should do, which is a tag and trade, Mike, as you mentioned. But for me, it's, again, do you trust this organization first off to do that and then go get a pass rusher like a Max Crosby,

even a Jeffrey Simmons who also could help in run stopping? I think was in, and this is a piece of advice I was given early on by the great Chick Ludwig, who used to cover the Bengals for the Dayton Daily News. He said to me, and I'm still in my early 20s, so I'm still somewhat learning this. He said, never leave one job until you have another one lined up. You never want that. So it applies here to the Bengals. You want to move on from Edge Rusher?

Fine. And mind you, Tray Hendrickson, in three of his five seasons with the Bengals, has at least 15 and a half sacks in those three seasons. That's insane. That's insane production. And this Bengals team who has struggled on defense throughout their history, and they've never really had that elite edge rusher until him and Trey Hendrickson. They've never had that closer in Trey Hendrickson, who probably has been their best closer on defense since ever, maybe. But again, you better have a plan in place. And that gentleman is my biggest issue with, okay, he's probably gone.

What's your plan? What's the plan to replace him? because if you have a repeat of what you did with Jesse Bates replacement, you're going to have three more years like the last three years that you just had. I think the terrifying thing is that they might just be going for that Jesse Bates style replacement with, we just drafted Shemar Stewart in the first round. We have Miles Murphy coming along as a first round pick. Maybe we go and supplement that with another guy,

but they spent the picks. The guy didn't perform up to the level that you'd expect from a first round pick in Shemar Stewart, but they already spent the pick. So do they think we've already done our work on replacing the high-level talent of this? And we're just trying to find somebody to be the third defensive end in the room because we expect Stewart to be defensive end number one or number two or whatever you want to say there. Similar to how Dax Hill got drafted when Jesse Bates was there, they didn't seem that thrilled with Dax Hill from not playing year one.

And then they still let Jesse Bates walk anyway and try to put Dax Hill out. out there. You know what? Using a term that Duke Tobin said, and what this organization is very, very used to, is they've done it before. And they've had good players that they've allowed to walk who have continued, even though they may be a little bit older, they've allowed to walk to go to another team.

And they still had maybe not the length of the contract that they wanted, but they still had two or three, four good years left in them. You know, Carson Palmer was one of those guys. And they've got a number of them. You guys are more familiar with the Bengals than I am in their history, but they've allowed a number of players walk. And because of whether it be pride or that's just not the way they do things, but according to the Powers of B, hey, they've done it before.

They're going to go find one. Well, they've tried twice, right? Yeah, I think. Replacing a defensive end and they haven't done it. Coach, I love you holding Duke Tobin accountable. Using his words against him and holding him accountable. Look at coach. He's cooking so far today.

Mike, go ahead. Two quick examples. One, they faced Andrew Whitworth in the Super Bowl they lost and they let him go. And Kevin Zitler is still playing after being released like a decade ago. So, yeah, they've let guys go a little too early and they still had plenty of juice left in the tank before. Yeah, well, you have a right guard currently that maybe is your best right guard, not maybe is. your best right-garning Dalton Reisner. So please do right by him and this fan base and this team and re-sign him like today,

maybe right now at 408 or 410 as my computer says, my watch is two minutes off. Anyway, by the way, coach, see, I know that you didn't coach with the Bengals in your career, but in your time on this show so far, it's like you've become a valued member of the Bengals media. And that's why we're grateful to have you on this show. And Mike Santagana and Jake Wiscoe, James Rapine, And look, I like to think I'm knowledgeable, smart about the Bengals.

My family says I've seen tickets since 1968. You know, I think about them in a rational measured sense. But I'm not afraid to say how it is. And right now, the trust between this fan base and the organization is not there. It's not there. And it hasn't been there since about the spring, summer of 2003. Because that was when the Bengals were coming off two straight trips to the AFC Championship. Now you have three straight years of no playoff experience, and the first dominole to fall this offseason is likely going to be that Troy Hendrickson is no longer a Bengal.

Fine. What's your plan? Duke Tobin, we've done it before. So you're going to do what you did with Jesse Bates. You're just going to see what you have in replacements and what you have currently in the room. Sometimes, coach, I know you like to say in the building, but sometimes as you say, too, you got to buy a team. You got to buy your replacements. You got to go shopping a little bit.

Okay, it's a basic life metaphor. If you run out of turkey in the fridge, what do you do? You go to the grocery store and the deli and you get it. You run out of, I don't know, another household item, you go and you buy it. You spend money. If you want to cook the meal, you got to buy the groceries. I'm right about that. Come on now.

Absolutely. You know what I tell you, they, I'm very proud to be considered part of the Bengal media. after so many years, you guys, and I say you guys, beat up a very good friend of mine in Marvin Lewis. Whoa. You and Marvin, we're good friends. What are you are more about this? See, we go back. Our daughters were born on the same year.

We lived across the street from each other. Marvin and I go way back. Wow. How about that? It's a small world after all. Mike, go ahead. you're setting yourself up for Troy Blackburn's quote by saying by comparing it to groceries where he resigned Bobby Hart for whatever money and went look right tackles can't be found at Walmart

Mike Santagana you did not just mention Bobby Hart in 2006 on the Bengals. He started in a game last year for the Chargers. Yeah. I was shocked. Was he good? No. And there's a reason why. But you can buy him at Walmart.

He's the guy that leads. you, the older guy, who's saying, hey, welcome to Walmart. Come on, any, and let's everybody buy. Well, this is, this is not. It would have been cheaper. We could have paid $12 an hour instead of, instead of $10 million a year. This is not sponsor, but there's a reason Walmart slogan is save money,

live better. They need to be. Oh, how the conversation got me. Who, man, okay. All right. So let me ask the ultimate question here. If you had to say right now on February 6th, 4.13 p.m. Eastern time. Is Trey Hendrickson a Cincinnati Bengal in 2006? No, but I wish he was. Really? Okay. I think I know your answer to this. But just once and for all, Mike,

why should Trey Hendrickson be a Bengal in 2012 26? Because they need a pass rusher. You look at this, you just, if you could tag him, you could, I would probably look at an extension. The guy is really good. The guy fits exactly what you need. The defense is better with him on the field. You're not going to win in the playoffs without a pass rusher like a Trey Hendrickson to me. You look at the guys that are in there right now and Patriots, they're getting a lot of pressure, especially off the middle from Milton Williams and Christian Barmore. You look at the Seahogs.

I mean, DeMarcus Lawrence completely destroyed a game just by himself. I think it was a playoff game. And you look across that, their front, they've got Byron Murphy on the defensive line. They've got Leonard Williams at defensive tackle. So it may not be a true stud, but all of these teams can rush the pass. All these teams can put pressure on the quarterback. And you need that. If you are going to be a true Super Bowl contender, to me, you need to be able to put pressure

on the quarterback. The Bengals had about half the number of pressures that the Seahawks and Patriots had, at least at the defensive tackle position. I don't particularly care too much where the pressure comes from. To me, if you can't pressure the quarterback, you get into these games where you're facing elite offenses and elite quarterbacks and they could sit there and instead of having two and a half to three seconds, they've got three and a half to four seconds,

you're going to lose. You can't cover that long when you're facing Jackson Smith Najigba. When you're facing on the other side, Stefan Diggs, who's having a great year, you've got all these guys that are difficult to cover. Best way to do that, get to the quarterback before they can run a complicated route that has two different stems on it and he's breaking open down the middle of the field for 60 yards. So that's why I keep them around. I like to keep good players instead of making games.

I don't know if coach has a different answer than me. No, I totally agree with what Mike's saying. You know what? You don't get rid of a good one. You don't allow him. I don't know how long a contract he wants, and maybe they don't think he's worth a four-year deal. He might only be worth a three-year deal.

We'll give him a three-year deal on what he wants, you know. But keep a good player with you because he, you don't, he's not learning the position. And I think that's what they have right now. They got a lot of guys that are learning very young. Youth is great, but there's nothing like wisdom and experience and a proven player to get things done. And right now, just like Mike was saying,

hey, guys are taking a lot of seven-step drops, or they've got a lot of time because there's no real heat coming from either side. Is it crazy for me to think that Troy Hendrickson being injured last year showed the Bengals his true value? Because as soon as he went out in the second half of week eight against the Jets, their defense went downhill. Completely, completely downhill. So if it took that, now you see his true value. I get it. You have cap space to spend money.

but if the guy is already there, why not pay him? It just makes so much sense. I think it ended up stressing Al Golden too, because Golden ended up trying to find different ways to find pressure, and it wouldn't work, whether that's those simulated replacement pressures, creepers, et cetera. He's trying to find a way to send a corner, send a linebacker, send somebody on a blitz, drop somebody else out.

And you don't have to do that if you have Trey Hendrickson. You're not trying to beat the protection scheme. you're trying to get Trey Hendrickson a one-on-one opportunity. And other than that, everybody else, contain. When that quarterback runs away from Trey, go get them. You get a sack. It's great. So I think it ended up stressing him out.

I think he ended up, you know, figuring a little bit out. We're going to talk about all in the next segment as well as speaking of it. But, yeah, I think it ended up stressing Golden by not having a Trey Hendrickson having to work with what he had in house. And I think Miles Murphy showed that he can be a starting level defensive end. And Joseph Osai was doing a similar job on his side. But it wasn't the level of what you got from Trey Hendrickson. Because you imagine Trey Hendrickson with Miles Murphy and improved Miles Murphy. I think it would benefit both of them.

Absolutely. Oh, funny. And funny, Mike, how you talked about Al Goldings. We're going to go to him in our next segment and what our confidence level is. And the Bengals now second year defensive coordinator. We'll do that next right here on the Bengals Squad show. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets?

Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time of Robin Hood prediction markets. It's not you against the house. It's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robin Hood prediction markets changes the game. It's people moving the action. So when the momentum shifts, you can move with it.

I always knew the game, but never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. Now I can actually take part live in a market. and power by people and you can no longer just be a spectator because you play by play, you decide. Trade every play with Robin Hood, now available across the U.S. Download the Robin Hood app now to begin. Futures and cleared swaps, trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robin Hood's derivatives LLC at Register of Futures Commission Merchant and Swap firm. We are also presented today by Home Chef. As the New Year gets going, been going. A lot of people are trying to simplify their routines. And dinner is a big one between

busy work days, cold winter nights like tonight, and pack schedules like I have coming up. Having an easy, reliable dinner plan makes a huge difference. And that's where Home Chef comes in. Home Chef takes the stress out of cooking by delivering fresh pre-portioned ingredients right to your door with easy to follow recipes that actually taste great. They're rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. And it's easy to see why. Meals, come ready to fit your schedule, 30-minute recipes, oven-ready trays, or quick lunches. With over 30-weekly options, including family-sized meals and different dietary choices, recipes are simple but feel elevated, even restaurant quality, with dishes co-created by chefs like

Gordon Ramsey. Everything arrives pre-portions. There's less prep, less mess, and no waste of food. Saves time and money. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. Right now for a limited time, Home Chef is offering listeners of the Bengals Squad show 50% off your first box free shipping and free dessert for life. We wouldn't want that. Just go to homechef.com slash lockdown. That's home chef.com slash locked on for 50% off your first box, free shipping and free dessert for life.

Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. A reminder that you can become a member of the newly established everyday club on the Lockdown podcast network. Visit lockdown podcast.com slash every day. See, here's we're all about continuity when it comes to the Bengals. But see, we just made a change. Normally, oh, and coach just went away, so we're not going to have that change. But we had it for about 15 and 20 seconds.

Normally, coach, in his camera shots on the right, when it's the three of us, he was in the middle for those 20 seconds. He'll be back here shortly. So, oh, there he is. We'll let him rotate his camera there in the beautiful yard in there down in Southern California. Coach, we just had something different. So you were in the middle of the shot. Normally you're on the right side. See, we can change as Bengals Media.

You've got to be flexible. Flexible, versatile, all those great things. And I think Al Golden wants to do that with the Bengals defense. I truly do. And I think the lack of free agent signings on that side of the ball last off season and the missed draft picks, and again, that's just going off last year. They may turn, Shamar Stewart may turn out to be a hit. Demetrius Knight Jr. may turn out to be a hit.

Barrett Carter may turn out to be a hit. I don't know. But I think it's too really to say where our confidence level definitively is when it comes to Al Golden. Is that accurate? Oh, apparently Mike, your – Mike is muted there. It's tough because he's a first-year NFL defensive coordinator play caller. So some of – to me, I probably would have moved on. I think things were really rough last year.

It got better. You're saying you would have moved on from Al Golden. Yeah. Really? I look across, you could have had. I just think things shouldn't have been that bad. As bad as they were, they were the worst defense in league history up through like Week 14.

And then they finally got to face like Chador Sanders and these easy row of course. Who's the Dolphins guy, Quinn Ewers. Quinn Ewers. Yeah, they got it. And Jacoby Brissette was the toughest quarterback they faced over like the last three, four weeks of the season. So I guess Lamar was in there and that was a tough one. but that was back half Lamar who was kind of struggling because he couldn't move,

couldn't be accurate with the ball. So to me, the improvement on defense was at least partially. We faced some guys at quarterback who probably, I won't say won't start next year, but they're not going to be listed among the better starters in the league next year. They'll pretty go to that. I'm Shador Pro Bowl quarterback. I have to give the credit there. But I'm not sure what level of alternate that was.

So, yeah, I think that had to do with some of it. And to me, I just don't see what what he did throughout the entire course of the year, could you have not, could you not get that from somebody else? And then you come with the idea of could the guy you get next be even better. Now, I think the thing that would stink here is there's a lot of young guys. You've got to change terminology. You've got to change whatever. But at the same time, I just look at it and I went, I don't, I don't think he's

going to lift this team up the same way Anirumo did in the playoffs. I don't think this is a defensive coordinator that gives you an advantage on Sundays. I think what you're hoping for is he improves. The back half stuff was real. It wasn't just like low-end quarterback and offense, offenses that they played. The young guys were just coming along. I just feel like I've been here before. I feel like last year, last year we were here where Lou Anirumo had a bad defense. They gave up 40 points or whatever to Pittsburgh for the first time since like 2000. And, 16 or wherever. And then the back half of the year, the last four games, you look at it go, oh, this

defense is really turning it around. It wasn't turned around the next year. So that's my worry. Yeah. That we look at this mirage of late season injured offenses with bad quarterbacks, and we think, oh, the young guys are starting to play better. But I'm not sure they are. I'm not sure that this means that when you go into Kansas City or Buffalo or

or whatever, that this defense is going to be able to keep up. And I thought they actually did an okay job with Buffalo for half the game. And then half the game, they were not okay. So it's tough where I would have moved on personally, but since he is 100% sticking around, I'm kind of selling myself on the idea. Maybe it is just the young guys. It is this that they were getting better.

You got to look at an independent schedule. You can't control who you play. You can just control how you play. And they did play better down that stretch. when I look at it also, I just want to, I probably would have moved on. I probably would have tried to see what else was out there because I just don't know if it could have been worse than last year. Well, that's my biggest fear is that what happens when you are still in, hypothetically, the postseason race, like the Bengals were in week eight, and then they gave up 500 plus yards to the Jets where they gave up nearly 600 yards to the Chicago Bears.

Like, that's why a point I made earlier this off. Actually, I made this point after the Dolphins game. I said you need a guy that has been on winning teams, aka Boy Mafa, who's an unrestricted free agent after this season from the Seattle Seahawks, get him in here to show these young guys, hey, this is how to play. This is how to go about your business when expectations are there and a lot is expected of you and this team. That's my thing. And the bar, you mentioned, Mike, that, you know, it was a bunch of young guys on defense and it was so bad last year the defense.

The bar is so low because of what happened last year. And I personally, I think that Zach Taylor thought, well, these guys didn't make some progress in the second half of the season. Why would we bring in a new voice, new terminology when we already did that last year and it really didn't work at the outset of the season? Coach, when you have young defensive players, I don't care who you're playing. I don't care if you're playing Miami or Arizona or Cleveland. When you see yourself have success against whoever it is, that matters for young defensive players. Oh, without question. You know what?

I think it comes down to, to, yeah, you may have a new voice come in, but what is that voice? Who is that voice? And, you know, obviously, I mean, youth is, you know, you can't always blame it on young players. If you blame it on young players, then you're blaming it on the whole system in terms of how you're acquiring those things, whether it be during the draft or the, you're, through or the lack of free agency, you know, when you go out and get somebody and you can't always rely on on that. Now, are they going to be better? Yeah, they'll be better. But will they

be in a competitive situation? If this defense isn't in the top 15 next year, then you basically have wasted a year. And you got to put it on what you have on offense, and you're saying, okay, there's another year away from Joe Burrow. Yes. And his prime is right now. And, you know, the key thing is you always remember about Coach Holtz. He said it was all about win.

What's important now? Don't worry about down the road. you guys have got to fix it and you got to fix it soon. So you know what? You could have done it with because there were there were playing. Just think right now, hey, you could have went out and got there. There were good defensive coaches. They were out there that are no longer available because other people knew they were and they picked them up fast.

It has to work with Al Goldin this year. It has to work with Shemore Stewart this year. Those two guys, and we'll have many more conversations on them this offseason. They're the two biggest wildest. cards to the two biggest question marks going into next season there and they're tied together. Al Golden was hired by Zach Taylor last year familiarity from his stentist of Bengals linebackers coach and that's fine. But now you're overseen the entire defense. That includes the secondary, which was terrible at times last year. The defensive line, which could not generate any pass rush

at times last year and they could not stop the running back-to-back weeks against New York and Chicago. So Al Golden, yes, I don't think there is enough to really judge him on as a defensive coordinator because the front office gave him, you know, a bad, bad deck of cards to work with last year. And that's where, again, organizational alignment comes into play. But for me, coach, you mentioned Joe Burroughs in his prime. So was Jamar Chasing T. Higgins. Jamar Chasing, Jamar Chasing T. Higgins. Like any perceptions that one or both of those guys were going to be prima donnas in the NFL, I'm sorry, they're not. They are far from those. They want to win.

Both won national championships in college. Both have been to the Super Bowl. They've tasted success. They've come this close. So they want to win. They made their thoughts very clear on Radio Road this week in Santa Clara, San Francisco. The fact that they are calling for Zach Taylor and this front office, literally laying out who they want to get on this team. Max Crosby, Jeffrey Simmons.

They are saying who they want to play with because they want to win a championship. but as the old saying goes, and coach, you know this because you coached on a team with one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Defense wins championships. Offense can get you there. Defense wins championships. And what do I mean by defense wins championships? Can you have the guy to close the deal? That's why defense wins championships.

There's no question about that. I mean, you're seeing it on Sunday. That, you know, those are two. teams that defensively were a major part of how they got to where they are. And that's all you need. You need all three phases to be able to be equally as good to play in the big game. And I know this, but in 2002, we were not very good offensively, but the defense carried us until we developed an identity and started to make plays.

And other than that, I mean, shoot, we were. would have probably not been there. Mike? Yeah, I, it is the defense. And I think when you look at the modern NFL, I think the team for this year, it sure seemed like defense might be a little more important

than even quarterback. You look at the guys who missed out on making the playoffs versus the guys who made it. You look at like the Broncos and how they, Bo Nix, is he a better quarterback than Joe Burrow? I wouldn't say so. They had the number one defense. So they went all the way.

to the AFC championship game. And that was the- and could have won it with the backup quarterback. Yep. And they beat Josh Allen on the way there. And I think Josh Allen's also a better quarterback than Bo Necks, but it doesn't matter because you have that defense. So yeah, I think the defense is,

and even when the Bengals did make the Super Bowl and when they went to the AFC championship game, you look at their defense, maybe you look at the regular season stats. You think, oh, it's okay. In the playoffs, they were very good. They were a very good defense in the playoffs. You did not see, I don't believe there were any games,

team scoring 30 plus in the playoffs against them. No. So that's what I look at for a modern game where did the defense do its job? They kept them under 30. So that's kind of what I look for. Which is not what I used to look for, but that seems to be now. Like did your defense do his job? Yeah, they scored 26.

We should have won. But that's, I mean, the bar is so low that these guys are, it's like these defensive players are conditioned to think, all right, if we just hold them to 26, 27. that's not a mindset that you should have. That's not the mindset that Hendrickson, Wates, Wilson, DJ Reader, Sam Hubbard, those guys had on those 21 and 22 teams. And Mike, you know why the defense,

and coach, you probably remember this, why the Bengals defense was so good in the playoffs. Yes, they forced a lot of turnovers, but that's a product of stopping the run. They face Josh Jacobs and Derek Henry. They shut them down in both those playoff games. They shut down the Chiefs running game and they bait him a Holmes into two picks

in the second half and overtime of the AFC championship. They did the same thing against the Ravens and the Bills in 2022. So by executing the fundamentals, stopping the run, and getting after the quarterback, that baited them into turnover worthy plays. So it's like the first two games last year. The Bengals were 2 and O, and I for one was like, all right, the defense is going to get better.

The offense, we'll see how it does without Joe Barrow for maybe a month. And then obviously the hammer came down. He was going to be out for longer than that. But the Bengals defense in the first two weeks of the season, this past season, still was not very good. They were given up chunks of yarders to the Browns and the Jaguars. But what they did to offset those was forced turnovers, but you can't live and die by turnovers. The 05 defense tried that. Didn't work.

The Bengals defense says the last three years have tried that. It hasn't worked. So you have to get better and go back to the drawing board and executing the fundamentals. All right. Pretty fired up in that segment. that's totally okay. We're going to go to a side of the ball that we know is very good. Troy Walters and my message to the Bengals front office and coach, I'm sure you'll agree with me on this.

Don't let him leave the building. And I got the perfect solution to ensure that won't happen. Coming up next right here on the Bengals Squad Show. This episode of the Bengals Squad Show is brought to you by Indeed. If you've ever hired someone who looked good on paper but wasn't the right fit and now Golden may turn out to be that, you know how important that is. When you want candidates who truly match what you're looking for, trust Indeed sponsored jobs.

If you're hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other sites. Indeed, sponsor jobs post, or excuse me, it puts your post at the top of the page and helps you read the right candidates faster. So if you needed to hire someone for your show, if I need to hire someone else for this show, we've got a great crew already, I'd go straight to Indeed, be very specific about what I need. I need real experience. I need people with passion.

I need people with ball knowledge, not just a resume buzzword. Instead of struggling to get your job post seen, Indeed, sponsored jobs helps your listing stand out and reach quality candidates faster. Sponsored jobs boost your post to the people who are the best match for your role. And that makes a real difference. According to Indeed, data sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non-sponsored jobs. Spend more time investing or excuse me interviewing candidates who check all your boxes with less stress, less time, and more results. using Indeed sponsored jobs. Listeners of the Bengals Squad Show get a $75 sponsor job credit to help give your job the premium

placement it deserves at Indeed.com slash locked on NFL. Just go to Indeed.com slash locked on NFL right now and support the show by saying you heard about Indeed on the Bengal Squad Show terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed. Troy Walters has been the Bengals wide receivers coach for quite some time now. He's been instrumental in the development of Jamar Chase, T. Higgins, was that way for Tyler Boyd. remains to be seen. The script I don't think has been fully written yet on Andre Yose Vosch.

It'll be interesting to see if guys like Charlie Jones and Mitchell Tinsley are factors next season or if the Bengals bring somebody in from the outside of wide receiver or in the draft. But I think about Troy Walters. And here's my solution because coach talks about this. I talk about this not letting key guys, players, coaches leave the building. Like just because they're rising as a positions coach or a coordinator doesn't mean you have to let them go, be the head coach somewhere, be the coordinator somewhere. So here's my solution.

Okay, and it could go one of two ways. Where Troy Walters, it's this. If he's ready, let him be the offensive coordinator. If Dan Pitcher's still here, let Dan Pitcher and Troy Walters both coordinate the offense and it can be a collaborative effort calling place. But then that gives Zach Taylor the option. Finally, once and for all, I think he's already had the option, give up. play calling, let guys like pitcher and Troy Walters, who have been instrumental in this

offense's development. That will ensure that Zach Taylor can be more of a field general head coach and coach Troy Walters stays in the building. You see what he's doing. Why would you let him go be a coordinator somewhere else? Let him do it here. We'll get back to coach in just a minute. Mike, go ahead. I think it's a fine idea. I just, I know that Zach's not giving up like calling. So as far as I can take it, it's just like, yeah, not a bad idea. I think this would make pitcher likely to leave, though, if he had to be a co-offensive coordinator. I think that would be the issue, too. It's like, it's not a full demotion, but it sure feels like, I have to share responsibilities. When people are going to look at me to be a head coach, they're going to see

co-offensive coordinator. I think there's a reason that's not really done that much in the NFL. So, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the main issue is that pitchers probably. I'm going to take that as a slight towards him. But none of this goes very far in my head, though, because I just got, yeah, fans are going to complain every year. Zach Taylor's going to be calling the plays every year. As long as he's here, I don't think he's giving it up. He's never done it before.

I'll be surprised if he does it this year. I'm just saying, though, you can't let a guy like Troy Walters leave the building because then what happens, Coach, Jemar T and whoever else, they're going to learn a new language. Do you really want that in their prime? Well, you know what I think? I think the thing with Troy is, I mean, just his history.

You know what? He's coached in college. He's coached, and he has coordinated before. He's coaching college. He's coaching the NFL for a long time. And he's played the position. And he played it very well. You know, so there's a technical aspect to the way he coaches and the way he goes about it. and that is very, very exact. I mean, and it's very, very good. You see those two great players, and they improve. And they, for the most part, stay healthy by the way that they play. And they run good routes, and Joe Burroughs very, very happy with him.

With that being said, he knows how to run that room. And he's got control of that room, which could be helter-skelter, because there's only one ball and they all want it. Yeah. So he understands all of that. Now, titles are dime a dozen nowadays. And every NFL team's probably got it. You know, we've got a run game coordinator.

They've got a passing game coordinator. They've got, which really means nothing. The same guy's calling the place. And he understands in that building what his input is, into the offense. The thing that makes people stay is if the organization or the college program takes care of them before they're asked to leave or want to leave because you're not taking care of them.

Those are the, you look at all Andy Reid's guys, you know, whether it be Andy Heck or the tight-in coach Milton, those guys have been with him for a long time. They're not striving to be the coordinator because the organization takes care of them every year. So why leave? You can actually buy a house in a city instead of renting? That's great. So make it important before the fact. And then that goes on your credit report.

You bought a house instead of rent a house. So you have that and you have the fact that you were an offensive coordinator. So that goes on your coaching resume. Troy Walters, by the way, coach you were alluding to it. He played with the Colts from 0-2 through 05, so that means he played with Marvin Harrison and with Reggie Wayne during their primes. I mean, you faced the Colts in 2003. I'm going to guess that Monty Kiffin leading up to that game.

It was a Monday night game. I'm going to, I know it's a, well, listen, it's a bad memory. But I'm going to guess Monty Kiffin and that defense was like, okay, we know Marvin and Reg you're going to get their catches. Take Troy Walters away. Oh, absolutely. You know, shoot, and you had Dallas Clark, you know. There's a whole lot of those things.

When you've got a good thing going, boy, hang on to them. Shoot, they came back down and beat us. I mean, we thought we were on easy street. And all of a sudden, that was the worst nightmare of my life. I think just to make it clear what coach is saying, give Troy a raise. You know, he's one of the best coaches in the league. Yeah. Give him money.

Give him money. Like, that's why he wants to leave too, right? He wants to get paid more. That's offensive coordinator comes with more money. But what is that raise? I guess what my question is then, what is that raised? If Dan pitcher's still here. Now, if Dan pitcher goes somewhere to be a head coach, that's fine.

Then you, he better be on your short list for offensive coordinator. Zach, when he has had to make coordinator changes throughout his head coach and career, has promoted from within. To his credit, Dan pitcher has worked wonders. That's great. Al Golden, he did not, well, he technically did promote from within because he, Al Golden was on his staff. He was at Notre Dame. He brought him back. So, but if, let's say the raise is offensive coordinator. Great. But if he's going to want to call plays, you can let Jurego get in the way?

I think, yeah, I think you end up having to give him, you know, assistant head coach, passing game coordinator. Right now he's a wide receivers coach. So I think the promotion to an office of coordinator is enough if Dan leaves. I think what you really want to do is give him a raise money-wise. I don't know what he makes, but give him an extra million dollars a year. Oh, I'm sure going to be a lot happier to do the same job. I'll be having more money doing the same job. When you get to coach the best wide receivers in the world.

Yeah. Yeah. So like that would be fine for me because part of the reason people look around is they're protecting their own money. They're protecting themselves. They're looking, if I become an office coordinator, I make more money. I can't do that in Cincinnati. So how do you circumvent it? You go, hey, we're going to give you more money anyway because we know you're one of the best

wide receiver coaches in the league. I don't know if the Bengals would do that because it doesn't seem like the ownership likes to pay their coaches that much. But I would, I would give them a raise. You look around you're getting some offensive coordinator looks. I'm glad you want to stay here. I don't want you to go try to get every offensive coordinator job, put yourself out there to tell your agent.

like, hey, anybody, just tell them, interview me. I mean, it'll probably help because. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I would give him that reason just be like, okay, glad you're staying here. If somebody comes to you, you're always allowed to go interview for those, but I don't want you to have wandering eyes, and especially if his contract runs out and you start looking at he didn't resign, he could just go be the highest paid wide receiver

coach somewhere. You don't want him to think that either. You don't want him just be happy where he is. Hey, attention. What's going on? Dan Pitcher's got interviews this offseason. Oh, so what does that tell us? He's probably going to get more next year.

Troy Walters, this is the year. This is the year to prove that you deserve to be the Bengals offensive coordinator in 2007. Here's the other thing, too. Here's the other thing. And this is why Winnie matters, the addition to many other things, obviously. The Bengals get back to the playoffs next year.

Other teams that need a head coach, are going to be like, wait a second, look at what Dan Pitcher's doing. in Cincinnati with that offense. Let's go hire him. And then Troy Walters, whoo, natural, logical progression to offensive coordinator. Now, maybe it is a pipe dream of mind to say that I wanted Troy Walters to stay, and then he and Dan could co-coordinate the offense, or Troy then gets off its coordinator and Zach Taylor gives some play calling. I don't know, but either way, you can't let Troy Walters leave the building. By the way, coach, don't mean to rub salt in the wound. In that game in 2003, Troy Walters had four catches for 42

yards, his longest reception was 15. Marvin Harrison, 11 for 176 and two touchdowns. Yeah. You're killing me. Let me ask this. Let me ask this. Excuse me. Is it true that athletes and coaches remember their worst loss more than their best win? Oh, for me it is.

Really? There is no doubt. There is no question. There's two games in my career that stick out. one was that particular game against Indianapolis. And the other one was when I was coaching at the University of New Mexico, we played Air Force with D Dallas, and we had 18 plays the whole game.

Because they just took the ball and ran up the field and down the field and up the field. Every play was around. Eight minutes of time of possession. It was incredible. In a 60-minute game, you had eight minutes time of possession? We never had the ball. I've, okay. So you were at New Mexico, let me see, you were at New Mexico from 1987 through 1989 as the offensive line coach. Yes. Okay. Wow.

Would you be more upset if you were the defensive corduere, though, that's just allowing them to just kill you in the run game. Hey, you know what? We made jokes forever about how there was still a little bit of chicken left on that bone. Clearly. It's why they say football is a team game. one of two teams on Sunday, the Seattle Seahawks or the New England Patriots is going to win Super Bowl 60 and to win the Lombardi trophy yet again. We'll get our, we'll make our picks for that game. Plus talk about the 2026 Pro Football Hall of Fame class that does not include Ken Anderson or Willie Anderson. And we'll talk about what that means for the Bengals coming up next right here on the Bengals Squad show. This edition of the Bengals Squad show is brought to you by Zock Doc. Finding a doctor

you actually like can feel like discovering a diamond in the rough. Sure you want someone who's in network nearby. has availability, but you also want a doctor who listens, makes you feel comfortable, and explains things clearly. Well, that kind of doctor does exist, and finding them is easy with Zoc Doc. Zoc Doc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high-quality in-network doctors, so you can find someone you love without all the hassle. We're talking about booking in-network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states, covering over 200 specialties from primary care and dentistry to dermatology and

care. I'm not a medical person. I'm just saying what the script says. I'll admit it. I've definitely put up doctor appointments longer than I should. Between work, life and everything else, it's easy to delay. But Zoc Doc makes the process simple. You can search by specialty or symptoms and actually build a care team that works for you. You can see real time availability and book instantly no phone calls, no waiting on hold. Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com slash lockdown NFL to find an instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Z as in Zoo, O-C as in Karat, DoC.com slash locked-on NFL. Zockdoch.com slash locked-on NFL.

Thanks to Zock doc doc for sponsoring this message. Back here on the Bengel Squad shows, we wrap up yet another week of off-season shows. This is, I think it's off-season week number five by my count. I've lost track. You know what? It's the last football Friday of the season entirely Super Bowl 60 on Sunday, the Seattle Seahawks and the New England Patriots for the second time in Super Bowl history. It's that matchup 630 on NBC coverage starts at noon.

If you're into the pregame show, which I did read, I did read, gentlemen. I don't know if you've seen this, that part of their pregame show is going to be broadcast from Alcatraz Island. Now, that is some serious stuff right there. Hey, I'll tell you what, you're out on the rock. You just hope you got a boat to get off. And then I saw like Chris Sims is going to be on a boat that's traveling like all through San Francisco to like McCovey Cove. And it's going to eventually go to the Golden Gate Bridge. I mean, they are pulling out all the stops for this.

And you can do that in an area that's as widespread as the Bay Area from San Francisco to Oakland to Santa Clara, San Jose, even. and I may be there later this year. So I'm excited to see what this is going to, what this pregame show is going to live by. I'm also very excited for Super Bowl 60. Coach, you coached with the Seahawks before. This is the third quarterback head coach duel that's been to the Super Bowl for Seattle this century tied with the Eagles.

What does that ultimately say about an organization that you work for and have very, very good things to say about? Well, you know what I think from the top down, you know, even though Mr. Allen's not around anymore, the family is still there and in control. So basically, things are ran the same from the standpoint of when he was the owner. And then before that, when Mr. Nordstrom owned it, you know what? They just have their staff together in terms of how they want to bring that team up. Now, if they keep everything intact, even though they're going to go up for sale, I guess,

after the Super Bowl. As long as they don't mess with that part of it, the organizational part of it, you'll end up seeing them again. Mike? It points to me the good front office, good ownership. Because to me, different coaches, too. I can't remember who was the coach for, what,

that first one with Matt Hasselbeck. Mike Holmgren. That was Holmgren. Okay, yeah, great coach. Then you have Pete Carroll, great coach. Now you got Mike McDonald. it looks like they hit another home run. They just keep hiring these great coaches.

So I think that's part of it too, is that they keep hiring great coaches. They've got a good front office that's always trying to get them into having the best team that they can, spending some money. You look at how they make some mid-season acquisitions with Ernest Jones and Leonard Williams being good members of their team now. So when I look at Seattle, San Francisco and L.A., which is weird, they're all three in the same. division. Whenever a free agent, especially Seattle and LA, when I see a free agent go there, I think like, no, man, that guy's probably going to do the best that he's ever done. That's probably going to be the best, he's probably going to be the best version of himself. So how do you get that as great coaching? And I think Mike McDonald's a heck of a coach.

Mike Rabel is too, obviously on the other side. It's great. He's finally making his Super Bowl. But yeah, I think it's continued success comes from ownership in the front office because it's three different coaches. They hired all three. They're all three great coaches. And it's part of that, where's that start? Who hires them? And who's hiring them in the front office, the ownership? Yep. And you look at it, like the Pittsburgh Steelers, their head coaches have stayed for 10 years,

at least, Mike Holmgren 10 years. Pete Carroll was there for 14 years, and Mike McDonald is in year two, and he's already coaching in the Super Bowl. So, Mike, you're absolutely right. And, Coach, you talked about it before. The Seahawks front office, they are so consistent. Ever since coming over to the NFC, this is their fourth Super Bowl. They've won several other division titles.

they've won at least one game in the playoffs many other times. This is consistency at its finest. Like the NFC allows, like it's more wide open, at least historically, and this century and going back to about 1990, the NFC's been more wide open. And the Seahawks are one of those teams that has taken full advantage of that. Now on the other side, you have the New England Patriots, who in just one season have, I mean,

they basically now look like the same Patriots teams that we see. all for 20 years in the 21st century. And Mike, I think, whereas the Seahawks have the great front office and a great head coach, the Patriots, they got the right head coach in the building, and then they brought back Josh McDaniels. And lo and behold, what do you know? They're in the Super Bowl for the 10th time in the last 25 years. I mean, I look at that ownership, I think it's good, too.

I think Robert Kraft puts a lot of money into it. Yeah, he's up for the Hall of Fame as the owner. So, yeah, he's doing a pretty good job there, too. I mean, you could say whatever about Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and what's got on since, but he did make the right hire this time. And I think a lot of people kind of were whatever on that hire of Mike Rable and Josh McDaniel. They're bringing the band back together.

Who cares? We saw the end of Belichick. We saw his last two years. This doesn't look like the end of Belichick. To me, this looks like a guy that's doing fantastic things. So, yeah, to me, it's more great ownership. The front office. That one's changed, obviously.

you had Belichick being the de facto GM as well as the head coach for a long time, and now they have that role kind of split up. But yeah, I look at Seattle and the Patriots, and look, they're just not teams that pick in the top five very often. And when they do, they hit. I think the last two for both them is Devin Witherspoon. And then the past two years for Patriots were obviously bad. They got Will Campbell and they got Drake May.

Seems like they're smashing these top five picks when they get them. and they're not a team that's perpetually in the top five, like Cleveland or these teams I might look at the ownership and think, like, yeah, how are you always bad? How are you like the bad version of this? And to be that also, it's not just going to be on the players when the players change all the time. Well, you know, and I think both teams really,

when they started to build, they didn't build around the quarterback. You know, Seattle was our, I mean, they just got. Darnold. And Drake May was literally coming off of his rookie season. That wasn't that spectacular. But they had already had some good players in the building to where now you add somebody that can run the football team like they do. Wow. That's just icing on the cake. Yeah, because Drake May, I think for me at least, I didn't really know what to make of him coming into this season. I thought he was good, but you didn't want him to be around a lot of losing early on in his career.

Well, year two, he's in the Super Bowl, and he has a great defense to compliment what's been an up-and-coming offense this season. All right, Coach, I know you teased it on Tuesday with me and Jake. We'll start with you, your pick to win Super Bowl 60. You know what? As my congratulations goes out to both teams, there's 30 other teams that are watching this on TV. and a lot of those guys are on vacation right now because they don't want to watch it, right? Or they went to San Francisco just to go to the parties, but they're not going to watch the game. Those two teams represent the AFC, the NFC, and the National Football League at its best.

It's the best playoff system series of games that I've been to have witnessed. and I got to go with Seattle because I think they're on a role. I think that they just defensively, they don't make mistakes. They don't. And that's one thing about them is they don't make the dumb, stupid plays. Mike, who you got? I think Seattle's been hotter. I think I'm just going to go with them.

Even though I do think Drake May is an incredible quarterback. Sam Darlal's pretty good himself. So I think the Patriots have the quarterback advantage. I think this will be a great game. I'm pretty excited for new blood, even though this is a repeat Super Bowl. But it's not it's not Chiefs. It's not Eagles. It's new teams that haven't been there.

49ers have been there a few times. These are teams haven't been there in a while. And neither one is the same as they were before. I mean, I guess you can remember Rabel from 20 years ago in the Super Bowl, but that was a player. So, yeah, I'm going to go with the Seahawks here. I think they are just so hot. It is hard to imagine the Patriots defense doing to them what they've done to other teams.

The Patriots defense has been good, too. So I think that's also a little bit, maybe I'm skewing offense too much in my head. Like if the Patriots end up winning, I'll end up thinking probably. I skewed a little too much towards the office. Like the Patriots defense has been really good. And you can look at Seattle's defense this past week and kind of think, eh, cracks here and there. I mean, they face Stafford who just won MVP and an awesome offense and Sean McVay.

but some cracks here and there. And they're facing Josh McDaniels, a former Super Bowl coordinator. So I can see how the Patriots win. But for me, like coach, Seattle's, they just look so good right now. I'll say this, and I thought about this this morning.

If Josh McDaniels wins another ring as the offensive coordinator of the Patriots against this Seahawks defense, put him in the Hall of Fame tomorrow or the next day. I'm dead serious because he's that good of an offensive. coordinator, and it's amazing what he's done in three different stints with the Patriots. Here's the thing, though, the Seahawks, to me, are going to control this game on the line

of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. I think their offensive line is going to get enough of a push and penetration against the Patriots defensive line, which is good. And I also think Seattle's defensive line is going to overwhelm Drake May. Now, I do think Drake May gets his points and gets his plays because I think his deep ball passing is very good. but I think when it comes, when push comes to shove, this time Seattle either A gets the one yard because they don't try to get cute or B, they don't let the Patriots get one yard. So I'm picking the Seahawks in a flipping of the script, 2824, the same score of Super Bowl 49, this time Seattle comes out on top.

All right. Pro football Hall fame class was announced last night. coach you coached against two of them from the NFC South, Drew Breeze and Luke Keakley. I asked you about them before the show started. I want to get your take on when the buccaneers, the Seahawks, because you were in his division for two years, what was it like to face Larry Fitzgerald? Wow. Larry did everything right. Class act on the field, but just did everything correct.

did not, if he wasn't the prime target, which was rarely, but he ran full speed routes all the time. And that cleared it up for those other guys that were running routes underneath him. And so, I mean, he is, it couldn't went to a better player. I mean, very good. Yeah. Mike, and when it comes to the Bengals, obviously, a lot of people are upset, myself included, I'm sure you were too. Ken Anderson not in, Willie Anderson not in. and Willie Anderson not in again.

What were your thoughts on that last night when you saw the class announced? I think the Ken Anderson thing. And that ended up being the Hall of Fame writers for whatever reason, voters. I mean, they did not want Belichick and Kraft to make it. And then they scheme so much against that that they ended up not putting like anybody in. They've got one senior vote in when they could have, they could have had three. Yes. They didn't really understand what we're not going to vote.

for Belichick and Kraft. Okay, so who are you going to vote for? They just said different. I guess enough people said Roger Craig. That was it. He should have been in a long time ago. Keep going. It's true.

I mean, all of these guys, right? Like, you look at Ken Anderson, it should have been even forever ago. You look at a guy that's not even put up, like Lamar Parrish or some of these other guys that should have been in there. When comes to Willie Anderson, I'm just stumped. I don't get it. You look at this and I cheer, Devin Hester got in. And he's a return guy.

Adam Venetary should get in. He's a kicker. And is that less valuable than a right tackle? Because the last time a right tackle made the Hall of Fame was that all the way back in what, like the 80s, 90s with the right tackle for the Rams, one of the greatest right tackles. Oh, Slater?

Yeah. Was Slater the last one? Was Jeff Smith the last right tackle to make the Hall of Fame? Because I'm stumped here. where I look at this and I think it's great that these special teamers get in, but it feels like the NFL cares more about special teams than they do right tackle at the moment. And that's the change because in what, 2012 or 2013, they start giving right tackle their own all-pro work.

Could you imagine if that was around Willie Anderson was there? He'd be like a seven-time first-team all-pro. Yeah. He's the only right-tackle to have multiple all-pros before that, other than Jackie Slater. You're asking them right questions. Pro Bowl's the same thing. So I just, that's, it's insane to me that these, and I respect special teams that they should get in eventually. But why are they jumping over Willie Anderson who's been waiting longer than Vinetary to get in? Orlando. Orlando Pace is in offensive linemen from the Rams, Walter Jones offensive lineman from the Seahawks.

Every other offensive lineman from that era is in. Tony Boselli's in. Yes. He didn't even play as long as Willie Anderson did. No, and he got credit for being a left tackle. His question. quarterback was left-handed. So it wasn't even the blind side. So it's, it's so frustrating that I look at Willie Anderson. He's just like, yeah, next year, next year, next year. It stinks. When are you going to put him in that you're putting in special teamers over him? Because to me it just means that a guy that comes out for seven snaps a game matters more than the guy who is out there for 60 snaps a game. And that's not right. And look, I understand. You look at the accolades, you look at whatever.

I think some of that points against Willie. We look at the stats that some of people have compiled. It's hard because Office of the Laman don't really have stats. That's the other issue of this. People can look at PFF numbers to put people in the Hall of Fame within like 10 years. But Office of Limeon don't have these stats to look at so they don't get the same respect. But you talk to his competition, talk to Michael Strayhan, you talk to his coaches. This is excellence on what was a terrible team.

Bill Cowher gave him an endorsement. He did. And Joe Thomas gets in because he had the actual. He's the same deal. He played on terrible teams too. An awesome offensive lineman playing on terrible teams. He got a little bit of the PFF bump because it started around when he was really good. So they got to say, oh, he's a 96 because now you can see something.

And I think that's valuable for these guys that they look at this. They see like, okay, stat good. Like, yeah, he's good. Like they need some type of reference statistic wise to say like, yes, he was very good. And you just don't have that for offensive linemen from the 90s and early 2000s. but it's so frustrating. It's just unbelievable that it's another year where he's a finalist. He's extremely close.

And you look at this year, you say, yeah, Adrian Peterson is going to get in first ballot. Totally. Gronk? Yeah, Gronk's going to get in. Andrew Wittworth's going to get in. Andrew Wibbett's going to get in probably before Willie Anderson's going to get in. I don't know if I'm going that far, but I do think he gets in too. I think Willie's going to get in, but it's just frustrating to look at who they put in instead of him. where Devin Hester and Devin Hester was incredible.

He was one of the best return guys I've ever seen. He was the best return guy of the 2000. Willie Anderson was the best right tackle for about a decade. How does that mean less than the best return guy for a decade? To me, that's what's nuts. And especially too, a lot to impact there. And I love everything you're saying there, especially too, when you think about the rising of the rise of the quarterbacks

when Willie Anderson was playing, when Peyton Manning came in, Tom Brady came in, Carson Palmer was right there with him in that 05 season. So I have a hard time now getting past the fact that people are saying, I'm not saying you're saying this, Mike, directly, but like people are saying that this is because of the Bengals and who they are. They're being overlooked. They're being cheated.

They're not being viewed in a positive light. I understand that. And I am a firm believer. This is going to be a big conversation on Tuesday show. I am a firm believer that until, until, until, franchise wins a Super Bowl. They are judged differently than the 20 franchises that have one of the Super Bowl. And the Bengals, unfortunately, are judged differently than, let's say, the Saints even. Or, I don't know, they're definitely judged differently than Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

But here's the thing, too, Mike. You talk about teams that Willie Anderson played on. Dick Buckis played on terrible teams. He's a Hall of Famer. Now, obviously, Dick Buck is one of the greatest football players ever. but I'm saying to you that the teams you play on should not matter. I'll echo a point that Mike Greenberg on ESPN's get up this morning brought up. Look, just utilize the I test. Is he a Hall of Famer or not? If he is, put him in.

If he's not, don't put him in. Maybe your opinion changes. I don't know. But like this whole notion of, well, if we put this guy in, we got put this guy in. If he's a Hall of Famer, put him in. Last year, you only put four guys in the Hall of Fame. This year, you only put five. What happened to seven?

What happened to eight, maybe nine? I mean, you look at next year's ballot. Terrell Suggs, Marshall Yonda, and Willie Anderson, their role, as was reported this point, by Ari Mirov, are going to be on the ballot as finalists next year because they got enough votes this year where they nearly got in. So that's great. But can you imagine, like, this city, what would happen if, like,

Big Ben gets in on the first ballot? And Willie Anderson does not get in again. And Ken Harrison is getting in again? Oh, have mercy. This, ooh, man, the Bengals aren't in the Super Bowl. this city's going to have a lot to say about that. I looked it up. Last right tackle to make the Hall of Fame was in 2006.

Rayfield, right? I don't even remember Rayfield, right? Coach, you remember him? Number 70 for the Cowboys, very good play. From I think Maryland something sure, he went to some small school. East Maryland Eastern Shore, something like that. Was he on those 90s Cowboys teams that won three Super Bowls in four years? Because I do not remember that.

No, he was before that. Well, he was on the 70s. He had to wait, he had to wait 30 years to get in, and he finally gets in. The last one was 2006. It's been 20 years since a right tackle has made the Hall of Fame. You know how insane that is. Especially when you think about quarterback production. You know what?

I think the whole, everybody has issues with, first of all, who are the voters? And second of all, you need to behold when you're fighting for somebody. what are the pros and what are the cons? Because when you bring up, I mean, I heard today that of the quarterbacks, recent quarterbacks that have gone in, Ken Anderson has better stats than like 10 of them. And because there's a distance and TV wasn't as big back when they played or you weren't on TV all the time,

it doesn't make you not a Hall of Famer. It doesn't do that. But there were people who saw him play. There were people. There was probably more newspaper articles on him than there are now. Yeah. Bob. That's how people got their information.

The interesting comparison to me is like Bob Greasy making the Hall of Fame and Ken Anderson not. And I think people give Greasy a ton of credit for the 72 dolphins, even though Earl Moral was the quarterback for almost the entire ring the season. Yeah. I mean, like Joe Namath is in. Terry Bradshaw is in. Their stats aren't that great.

Like, it just, here's what I will say. When it comes to a guy like Roger Craig, and I'm happy that he got to have the moment in San Francisco. Roger Craig should have been a long time ago. You look at Roger Craig's stats, okay? Look at the Super Bowl 23 box score. He was terrific in that game. Okay, they don't win that game if it's not for Roger Craig.

So when I heard that Belichick and crap didn't get in, somehow, they should definitely be in. When I heard they didn't get in and it was down to three guys in the season, senior category contributor owner, et cetera. It was Ken Anderson, Roger Craig, and Elsie Greenwood. How he's not in, I don't know. And the rule is, I think, this is Lance McAllister's tweet from earlier this week. Lance McAllister said, and he thought that if nobody got 80%, the top vote getter would get in. So I'm like, okay, if no one gets 80%, I don't know if a Bengal will be the top vote getter.

Unfortunately, because Elsie Greenwood are the Steelers, Roger Craig of the 49ers. Again, those two teams are judged more favorably than the Bengals are. And I can't stand that that's the case. I truly cannot. But unfortunately, that's the way it is. I will say this. I'm very happy for Adam Vinatari that he got in. Because, yes, I know he's just a kicker.

But darn it, he won two Super Bowl. He won two Super Bowls, and he kicked for like 25 years. I mean, he was his consistency that come in any position. So great. Now kickers in Sharned in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, time to put Willie Anderson and for sure time to put. with Ken Anderson in the Hall of Fame. We'll have more conversations about this topic on next week's shows.

Mike, you're on our Friday show next week. Mike, are you aware that next Friday is the four-year anniversary of Super Bowl 56? I am now. Well, we have a very interesting conversation on Joe Burrow coming up on that show. Something that I want him to do this year that he didn't do after the Super Bowl that I wish he would have. Coach, you're back with me on Friday as always and on Tuesdays with just. Jake Liscoe on Tuesday show, we're going to talk about the Bengals changing their identity.

And this is going all the way back to the 1980s. Two great shows coming up next week. Super Bowl 60 on Sunday. Thanks for tuning in this week, Tuesday and Friday back. Tuesday, 230, Friday, 4 Eastern. We are going to go on President's Day. I believe that Monday, because I have an obligation on Tuesday in our normal time slot then, so we'll change things up.

But hey, President's day off, so there you go. Coach, Mike, as always, thank you. I'm Alex Frank and Frankie underscore 90. He's coach our Valera, 45-year coaching veterans, Super Bowl 37 champion with the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He's Mike Santagina Fengals underscore Sands. You see him in his tremendous film breakdowns on Twitter and on lockdown Bengals with James and Jake, whether you peer or watch them on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. Don't forget to check out how to become a member of the Everydayer Club on the Lockdown Podcast Network.

Now the number one sports podcast network in America and the world, your team every day. For more information, this is at Lockdownpodcast.com slash every day. where you can get, among other things, access to the members-only discord. Alongside, Coach Arfallero and Mike Santagana, I'm Alex Frank. Thank you for listening. Have a great weekend. Enjoy the Super Bowl, and we'll talk to you next Tuesday right here on Bengals Squad, part of lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast network, your team every day.