Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: Joe Burrow EMBRACING going UNDER CENTER and he has his BEST TIGHT END depth

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Joe Burrow and the Bengals' offense went under center on several plays Thursday night in their Preseason opener. There were some bright moments, and it provides hope that this can become part of their offense in 2026.   Alex Frank, Coach Art Valero, and FOX19 Sports Director Joe Danneman discuss what they saw from Joe Burrow and the Bengals' offense on Thursday night and what we can expect going forward this week in the joint practice between the Bengals and Chicago Bears.   The Bengals' secondary flashed on Thursday when Jordan Battle picked off a pass, and D.J. Ivey showed tremendous improvement. What is this group's ceiling?   It's not just Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight Jr. entering crucial second seasons. Alex, Coach, and Joe take stock in all of the Bengals 2025 Draft picks and where they stand going into their second seasons.   One player who quietly had a great 2025 season and looks great to start the season is Evan McPherson. Alex, Coach, and Joe discuss why this is the Money Mac Bengals fans fell in love with in 2021.   Photo Credit: USA TODAY Network via Reuters Connect   Join the Locked On Bengals Insider Community! Where you'll get updates directly to your phone and be able to text the hosts, check it out at: https://joinsubtext.com/lockedonbengals   Everydayer Club If you never miss an episode, it’s time to make it official. Join the Locked On Everydayer Club and get ad-free audio, access to our members-only Discord, and more — all built for our most loyal fans. Click here to learn more and join your team’s community: https://lockedonpodcasts.com/everyday...   Find and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms:   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0l...   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...   Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-...   Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!   FanDuel Today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Join all the action at https://FANDUEL.COM to play Daily Dingers and make your free pick on who’s hitting a homer this MLB season.   KALSHI For a limited time,Download the Kalshi app and use code [LOCKEDON] to get $10 when you trade $10.   Square Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at https://square.com/go/lockedonnfl! #squarepod   Gametime Today's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDON for $20 off your first purchase.   FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Joe Burrow is embracing going under center and it's working. You know what else is working coach? Tight end depth. The best Joe Burrow has had in his career. Oh, you know, the other thing too is the secondary. And even without two of their valuable players, they're performing at a high level. So you can see that, hey, there's some great competition in that room. And everybody wanted Evan McPherson to try the 60-yard-plus field.

goal at the end of the half, what he told me on the sideline after he didn't get that shot, and is Evan McPherson all the way back to being Money Mac in 2006. Today, it's the Bengals Squad, everything Cincinnati Bengals every week, breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the Queen City, the way only the locked on podcast network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals Squad Show starts now. It is Sunday afternoon, August 16th, 2026. Welcome to the Bengals Squad Show live on lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast network with Coach Arfallero and Joe Danaman. And I got to give a shout out to Joe Danaman.

Coach, you know this. Joe is the newest member of the Bengals preseason TV network. He made his debut on Thursday and was outstanding on the call with Mike Watts and Anthony Munoz. And you'll hear Joe throughout the season. because he is also going to be co-hosting the Bengals Pef Rally show, one of my favorite shows with Dan Horde every Friday, 3 to 6 on ESPN 1530 and the Bengals Radio Network.

Joe, shout out to you and a great job on Thursday. I'm sure you'll do another great job on Saturday in preseason game number two against the Chicago Bears. It was funny because multiple players from the Bengals came over to do interviews with me during the second half after their night was finished. And they kept looking at me and saying, are you with the team now? So I had to explain to them that, yes, Fox 19 is broadcasting this game. And it felt like a natural opportunity for me as the sports director here to get that kind of a chance.

I hadn't done a live game broadcast in about 15 years. So it was a thrill and adrenaline rush to be back on the sidelines. And you're right. I'll be back for this coming Saturday against the Bears. Absolutely. Looking forward to that. And looking forward to today's show that is presented by GameTime. Download the Game Time Act, create an accounting.

use code locked on for $20 off. Your first purchase coming up on the show today. Joe Burrow in the under center game. We saw a heavy dose of it in preseason game number one. We saw some today at training camp practice number. I don't even know. And that's totally okay. We're in the dog days for summer literally because it feels like soup outside in Cincinnati.

Plus the secondary, they have a very high ceiling potentially. And they played outstanding on Thursday. They've been outstanding in training camp. Second year player stock report. And we all know that includes the two young linebackers, Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight Jr. And then Evan McPherson, as Joe alluded to in the open, shades of 2021. Very, very likely we are seeing what Bengals fans fell in love with back in the Super Bowl season.

But let's go to Joe Burrow and the under center game, the maturity perhaps that he showed on Thursday. That's crazy to say. And the tight end depth that he now has. Coach, I went back and watched the game, the under center stuff. I think there's really good progress being made, and it's going to be a significant part, potentially, of this Bengals offense and some key areas that they're working on throughout training camp. You know what?

I, too, went back and watched the game again. And you know what? It doesn't really affect anybody but the quarterback, but Joe, and both Joe's, actually. And it's the timing of the drops, it's the ball handling, it's, you know, rhythmic being rhythm oriented in the passing game. It comes down to him because everybody else plays pretty much the same. The rules are the same. Techniques may change because of alignments may change on defense. But I think it ultimately comes down to how Joe, how comfortable Joe is.

and how let me put it this way a lot of times quarterbacks what ends up happening is they go through when they haven't been under center for a while

they don't worry about the ball handling part of it there's a science to the ball handling part of it and they haven't gone through it you don't want to cut a back off you want to make sure that the depth is the same

that the angles are the same and sometimes a lot of quarterbacks will end up just going through the motions because they haven't done it and they don't do it enough. So that comfort level that Joe has to experience, not only in the running game but also play action game, you know, he's got to get a little bit more depth on his bootlegs, you know, but that's something he hadn't had to do and who knows how long. Straight dropback part of the game, you know, he's got to get that depth of his drop to feel really,

really comfortable with it as opposed to just being in the gun all the time. But it'll come. It will come. Yeah, this is a trust the process kind of element to me of Bengals training camp with them under center. Having Joe just living the gun, I don't think it's sustainable to his career longevity. He just takes too many shots in the gun all the time. But I think more than anything, it just gives them more flexibility if they're able to at least add some under center to their game. And we've talked about this in previous episodes. What the Bengals are on September 13th isn't what they'll be in December and January. Teams will improve as a season goes along. And I think that's important to remember as the Bengals continue to work on this at training camp.

This is a trust the process. It might feel like you're beating their head against the wall. if it's not working in training camp, but we are starting to see signs of it smoothing out. But it's important for a guy like Joe, who's had so much success throwing the ball out of the shotgun. It's had very little success going under center so far in his NFL career. But if you go back to last season, when Joe Flacco was under center,

all of a sudden you saw a run game in Cincinnati with Chase Brown that started to blossom in the second half of the season. And there's a reason some people are saying he could be a top 10 running back this year another 1,000 yard season. It could be 1,500 yard total yard season for Chase Brown. They've got to have it in their game just because it's not sustainable for Joe Burrow to live in the shotgun for the rest of his career. I just think he'll expose himself to too many hits. And I think there are moments too where you can use this for positional flexibility because you mentioned it right at the top there, Alex, the idea of the Bengals' tight end depth is deeper than it's ever been. But it's also guys who

aren't redundant. There are guys who have different roles, different skill sets, and can be used in different ways. And I can foresee, you know, some formations when they go 12 personnel with two tight ends where you have Jamar and T. And then you have Gisicki and all. And Chase Brown is your five skill position guys. And those might be the five best skill position players you can put on the field for this team. So you want to find ways to put your best on the field together. And when you line up with two tight ends, Gisicki and all, and then you're two wide outs and Chase Brown, think about the possibilities and the stress you can put on a defense, not knowing what you're going to do. You're going to see a lot of Eric Hall this season. If he stays healthy,

Eric All is a big part of their plans. That's why it feels like to me the under center game has to be a part of what the Bengals are in 2006. Well, I tell you what, Joe hit it on the head, and Alex and I were talking about it earlier. If you can go 12 personnel and be underneath, you don't have to line up in a two-by-two set. The great thing about 12 is a great neutralizer. What do you play them in nickel, then you're able to run the ball.

If they play them in base, then now you can line up in any three-by-one, two-by-two formation, detach those tight ends. And now the defense has to, spread the field and now it allows you to be able to run the ball and throw the ball as well. Plus the shifts that you can do out of 12 and change strength really puts a defense a little bit on edge because they have to think. And it's no longer the coach.

They have to think and they have to react and said, hot ball snapped. You know what's so impressive too is Eric All's connection with Joe Burrow is really improving. him. He made a great catch today on the sidelines on a pretty layered throw from Burrow and Training Camp today. So the other thing that they were working on today, 11-0-11s, they were working out of their own end zone. They were going under center, and I saw a borough multiple times roll out to the right and hit Drew sample for those five-yard passes. So if you can have those plays, you're going to get A out of the shadow of your own end zone, and B, you're going to put yourself in second and manageable. And then again, like we just talked about, defenses aren't going to know what you're going to do offensive because of who you're going to, can have on the field and what you can do with that personnel that is on the field.

And I go back to a point we mentioned on the postgame show Thursday. Tanner Hudson was playing in the third quarter. Now, you can say, well, why is he playing the third quarter when the starters were out? Or you can look at it this way. You have four to five tight ends on your roster that can make an impact that can make a splash play at any moment. That's pretty darn good to have. But when you have tight end depth that can, A, leak out in the flat or B, go across.

the middle or run slants, whatever, you're going to stress an opposing defense on any part of the field. And that's what's so impressive. The under center play, Joe Burrow got the defense to jump twice in 11-on-11s today. And that was because there was motion up front of the line of scrimmage right behind Joe Burrow. This is why there's such an emphasis on going under center, the urgency that he's playing with. Now, the other thing, Joe, that you mentioned on the show last week, was was the coaching staff potentially going to get into Joe Burroughs? and say, we don't need you to run around like Houdini and make plays. We need you to take the checkdowns when they're there, maybe throw the ball away,

live to fight another day. Somaget P.R. on Thursday night, had multiple checkdown receptions. Could that maybe be something we see in the regular season out of this? I watched the L.A. Rams, Kansas City Chiefs, preseason game on Saturday, and they were under center. And to your point about the Bengals on Sunday and training. camp practice, put the offense in a lot of stressful situations backed up to the goal line. The idea of a drive starter, just a five-yard release to a tight end or a dump off to a running

back and get the drive started and get yourself out of your own shadow of the end zone. The small things that the Rams are able to do under center with motion, misdirection, bootleg out of under center was really interesting to watch. was hyper-focused on it because of what the Bengals have done. And of course, Zach Taylor is a guy that worked with Sean McVeigh. So you would think he would have a little bit more in his game. But, well, it's all Joe Burrow. And Joe Burrow has his preferences, but you can see why the Bengals are working in it.

The other idea with tight ends is you mentioned Tanner Hudson playing in the second half, the depth and the decisions they're going to have to make at this tight end room. I talked to Duke Tobin before the Bengals preseason opener. He said, we like all six guys. in our tight end room. And you think about the cuts they're going to have to make and decisions they're going to have to make. We all get it, Gisicki, all samples, or all locks to make this team.

Tanner Hudson has popped up and made plays last year. Joe Burrow trusts him. He thinks he's dependable. Is Jack Endries able to unseat him? They like Cam Grandi as well. Are these guys they can cut and try to bring back on the practice squad? It's tough. As Duke Tobin said, what happened on Thursday,

night. You can't hide that from the rest of the league. The rest of the league is watching what your guys are doing on the field. So if these guys are cut casualties, other teams are going to give them opportunities. So it's a really hard decision the Bengals have to make at multiple positions, but certainly tight end is going to be a very difficult decision for this team to make in the next month. Hey, that's a great, that's a great decision to have. You know what? Yeah, I mean, that is, that is one of those. And you know what? With that. tight-in route. The thing that it's overlooked often is their availability and value on special teams because they have those big linebacker-type bodies who are great protection in the

they can run, great protection in the punt game, they can cover kicks, they can be on kick off return, so they can be a part of that core special teams core element that really helps it out so those ones on defense don't have to play every snap. Coach, let me ask you this when it comes to, and I know we're talking about tight ends here, it's going to be really interesting to see who they keep on the roster. I mean, Jack Andrews, I've been on the record saying it's my favorite pick in this year's draft. And you saw what he did on Thursday night. Joe, you were obviously on the call with the touchdown, free catch is 25 yards, 17-yard reception,

where he made three or four guys miss. But let me go back to the checkdown game where you can utilize the tight ends or you can utilize Samajap, Ryan, or Chase Brown. Coach, can those checkdowns actually lead to more plays down the field because it makes defenses have to play more honest? No doubt. Without question, if you're going to sink off so deep, you know, because you've got to take away T and, and Jamar, as well as, shoot, even the young guys came out today, Yoshabash played well, That is going to make people sink deeper. So the underneath stuff is there.

And by getting a five-yard, eight-yard, seven-yard, you're keeping the chains moving and you're not putting yourself in a position where you don't have manageable third downs. And as long as you're moving the change, it helps the defense because of time of possession. It also continues to get yourself an alignment by having. having better opportunities on second down and those third and medium downs as opposed of being long. So yeah, you know what? And it's great to throw to the backs.

They are, you're telling everybody in football, they are the best person to run the ball when they got it. Well, why not throw it to them and let them do it in space and not in a crowd of seven bodies, you know, plus all your, the blockers? You know, there's 13 guys. They've got to run through. And now you're putting them in space, hey, let them go. Let them do what they do naturally.

Joe's going to love this point I'm going to make here. When you talk about when you make defenses play more, that allows for the underneath stuff, go watch the game winning drive Super Bowl 36 with the Rams and Patriots. And Tom Brady started that drive with checkdown after checkdown to J.R. Redmond. But what did that lead to? It led to a slant route, deep slant route to Troy Brown, 30-yard passing play that got the Patriots in the field goal range.

And obviously that game kickstarted the Patriots dynasty. Why does Joe love that point? Because that game was on Fox. I love drive starters. And coaches will always tell you this. And Zach Taylor has said it many times, once you get that first down, it feels like, okay, now we go. Drive starters are important.

And it was something that I noticed yesterday watching the Rams do. And it's something that I think can be. applied to the Bengals because we understand about the emphasis this year about being more explosive, not only in the past game, but in the run game. And explosives will happen when you have the kind of talent the Bengals do. They believe under center gives them more chance to be explosive. But to me, under center, drive starters is something I'm looking for in 2006. In those first 15 plays that you script, first possession of the season, if you're rolling out and you're hitting Eric Gall,

or Drew Sample or any other tight end or running back, those easy completions to get you going. Because once momentum, you have it, it is very difficult to stop Uncle Mo. That's a direct tweet from Joe Danaman last year during the high school football playoffs. Say next. And who they play at Paycourt Stadium?

I'm already. I was going to say, Elder. Thank you very much. That was a rainy night at Paycourt Stadium, as was Thursday. Hopefully it'll be better weather on Saturday. Up next, what is the ceiling for the Bengal secondary? Could be quite high. That conversation coming up next on the Bengals Squad Show. This episode of the Bengals Squad Show is brought to you by Game Time. Look, there are more live

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Download the Game Time app today. With Joe Daniman and Coach Ruffiller, Alex Frank, with you back on the Bengals Squad Show, part of Lockdown Bengals and the Lockdown. Podcast Network, your team every day programming. We are doing the show midweek this week, this wonky preseason schedule with the ad schedule here at the lockdown podcast network. So coach, you and I will be midweek this week and then late Saturday night into Sunday morning following the Bengals and the Chicago Bears, which I just realized yesterday, Joe,

it just registered with me in terms of making the connection. So I knew that Zach Taylor's brother, Press, is the Chicago Bears offense coordinator. But it just registered with me yesterday that there. are going to be coaching against each other on Saturday. So that's a cool storyline going into that game. And of course, it's the Chicago Bears and the joint practice. We all know what happened last year these two teams play. So we got joint practice this week.

What should we expect with the Bengals and the Bears? Well, I think you're going to see a lot of heavy lifting from the ones on Thursday. And this is going to be their version of the preseason game. I don't think you're going to see a lot or any of the ones on Saturday night because they're going to get that work in on Thursday. So this is a big day and a big week for the Bengals starters. As I said from Thursday, the first preseason opener to Saturday, which is the second preseason game. This felt like the biggest nine days of training camp, this nine-day stretch of preseason opener, joint practice, preseason game number two. Thursday's a big day for the Bengals ones to go against the Chicago Bears.

And then you'll get a shot to see, you know, guys who are fighting to make this team and trying to get on the back end of the roster on Saturday night. So Thursday, I'm expecting to be a big day. We all know from our experience that when you get these teams into joint practices, typically something's going to happen, right? That there's going to be coaches having to break things up, You guys grabbing face masks, maybe trying to punch helmets. We've seen that before.

We've seen guys throwing helmets at each other, Erick Donald here in Cincinnati. So we fully expect it to get a little heated. That's good. I like that. That it's going to be heated. It's going to be competitive, but it's a big day on Thursday for the ones, the Bengals ones, and I'm sure the Bears won as well when they're having to joint practice on the practice fields. But two teams with Super Bowl aspirations this year, the Bengals and the Chicago Bears.

All right, the Bengals secondary. And coach has been very bold on them since training camp started. He thinks, Joe, that the Bengals are going to have six pick sixes this year. Well, Jordan Battle on Thursday nights certainly helped that cause. It wasn't a pick six, low it nearly was. If his elbow hadn't touched, he probably would have taken it in the distance. But when you watch this Bengals secondary play, two things. Number one, you're clearly seeing Brian Cook's leadership and the impact of him being

here is having. And number two is you're seeing how good, not just keeping the top on the defense, but how good this secondary actually can be this season because the depth they have a corner and when you look at the two safeties in Cook and battle, this secondary could be a true strength of this team. So I have two points to make. The first one would be what I think is one of the more under-talked about improvements by a specific player. on this team and then be pumping the brakes and pushing back a little bit on the excitement for the Bengals secondary. Jordan Battle, okay, let's start there. Jordan Battle to me last year was one of the most improved players in the second half of the season. And I think he's carried that forward

throughout this offseason and in training camp. You know, he spent part of the offseason working with wide receivers coaches to get a wide receiver perspective and try to be more dynamic in playmaking. not forget, he led the Bengals and interceptions last year. He also led the Bengals and tackles. So you saw a young player starting to ascend last year, and I think he's continuing to make a big step forward throughout training camp. Yeah, did he get fortunate for the interception in the preseason opener? Sure, the ball popped up and landed right in his arms. But sometimes fortune favors the guys who are prepared and the guys who put themselves in position to make plays. I think you're seeing that ascension from Jordan Battle.

And if Brian Cook is everything we expect him to be, all of a sudden what went from a huge weakness and that we pointed to in 20205 is saying, this might hold the Bengals back, a safety room of Gino Stone in Jordan Battle, who hadn't proved himself yet to being a viable starter in the NFL to all of a sudden what might be a strength in 2026. So I like where the safety room is right now. I am still very curious about the cornerback depth for the Bengals this coming season. Everybody likes Dax Hill and DJ Turner as the starters. DJ Ivy, coach, I know you're big on him. He's been one of the guys who's really started to step forward throughout training camp and make plays. I still need to see it on Sundays before I believe that the guys who are behind you, Dax and DJ can help this team win. DJ Ivy, we've seen a lot of clips. You go on Twitter

where all the Bengals clips are every day and put the name DJ Ivy in there and you're going to see a lot of one-on-one matchups against T. Higgins. If you want to prove yourself that you can play in this league, you're going against T. Higgins every single day. That to me shows that DJ Ivy is able, is capable and has done it. Has he won every rep? He has not. He has not. He's gotten beaten by T. Higgins. But you know who gets beat by T. Higgins? All pros. Pro bowlers. The best in the league get beat by T. Higgins.

So it's not a knock on DJ Ivy to go out there and get beat, but he's also made some plays against T. Higgins. So to coach's point, DJ Ivy has shown in practice during training camp that he can step up and be cornerback four, right? If you're counting Jalen Davis as quarterback three, the slot corner. So I think they probably feel a little bit more comfortable with their depth. Myself personally, I want to see it in games before I fully believe that DJ Ivy can be the guy that you said, okay, locked out.

He's our guy. If one of the other two gets hurt, we don't miss a beat. Put DJ in there and let's see what he can do. To me, I say let's wait and see before that happens because certainly Daxil and DJ Turner have separated themselves as the two best on this team. exactly right and you know what the great thing about it is is whether it be in practice preseason game when people show you who they are they're forcing you to believe him and as long as he goes out and continues to get better he's going to be you know the key is once you can do it in practice but when the lights come on

and you can show that you still have that awareness and that ability, you know, I think you've got a tremendous upside. Now, you know, when we get to the regular season and the lights come on, hey, let's hope at that time he's a prepared athlete

that he can go out there and show everybody exactly who he is. And that's why he'll make the team is because he's a value. And I think that, you know, I thought that the other night, the secondary play, I mean, and they played pretty basic. You know, they played middle of the field open. They played quarters and they played cover two. And then they played three in man.

And you know what? But they were solid in their assignments because Al Golden wanted to see them play. And I thought that they played, even though they were minus two. of their studs, they rose to the occasion and they played well. And so I'm excited to see them against Caleb Williams, whether it be in practice this week or the little bit he's got in the game to see exactly how they can play it because, you know, they're still testing them and still want to see all those young kids exactly where you are. And so I think that the, the ceiling is very high on this secondary. They get it and just don't confuse them. And I think that

they've got a great upside, tremendous upside. And I like to, you know, I buy Ivy Stock because he showed up. You know what? He was announced. He was, his name was mentioned. And a lot of times guys in the box won't mention a name because the guy's standing around a bile, but he was actually making plays. And he forced others to make plays by his alignments. I love his length. His makeup physically is different. It's reminiscent of Takario Davis, who's kind of been a little bit out of sight, out of mind with him being in and out of the Bengals practice lineup on a specific day. He's another guy who's made plays. But DJ has more time in the league than to The cario, look, the bottom line is they're going to need this depth. There's no doubt in my mind that they can't expect to put DJ and Dax out there and play 17 games and not have to worry about it.

They're going to need this depth and they need DJ, I.B, and they need to Cario Davis to assert themselves because I'm not sure how much confidence there is in Josh Newton. He was one of the more disappointing players last year in his performance. I'm not sure how much they brought in Jazeer Taylor with the confidence that he could help this team over long stretches of time. Maybe matchup dependent, maybe can go in there in a pinch and an emergency can help. But if a guy like a DJ Ivy or Takario Davis, who is, again, just a rookie, but those are two long, rangy length guys at corner that could be different. They're very different than Dax and DJ Turner in their size. And so, yeah, think it's important for one or both to assert themselves as two players they can rely on because they're going to need it. You can't just have Dax and DJ and say, that's it. Those are our

guys that are going to play all 17. Well, you know, and that's just in their base alignment. You know, all of a sudden you go to Nickel. And then now one of those young guys stepping up, now you can go dime and put another one on the field. And then you got Duggins, who you can go big safeties and have three of them out there and still be. So I like their depth as long as they just continue to improve. Dugger had that tackle on the first play of the game on Thursday night. And you saw the impact that he can have. I mean, excuse me,

I feel like we haven't even talked about him a lot this offseason because we've been talking about Brian Cook and Jordan Battle and DJ Turner and potential extension, Dax Hill, potential extension. DJ Ivy, I'm not sure. You guys probably remember this. It was Ivy who knocked down Aaron Rogers' Hail Mary attempt at the end of the Bengals Steelers game last year. So you're seeing that Ivy is a very smart player.

He's instinctual. And if he does make an impact on this team and I'll go on the record saying I think with the way he's performed in camp, he's going to make a play that wins the Bengals a game. Because I really like what I'm seeing from him throughout this training camp. And I think two points that I made rewatching the game is number one, this secondary, they weren't just playing basic because they have to because they don't have the talent like last year. I think maybe it's a case where they don't want to show too much of what they might show you in the regular season. Number two is this. And I specifically am referencing this to a guy like PJ Jules.

Now I don't know what his status is going to become cut down day in two weeks. But PJ Jules is really good at tackling, hasn't held up in. coverage as much. So I'm wondering if that's where the secondary in terms of coverage still needs to maybe improve and iron out a little bit. That's how you'll keep the top on the defense. Well, it can. You know what? And I think that, I mean, you look back at it too. And to both of your points, you know, depth is key in this league because there's an awful lot of games. And when you have guys that are showing up, they, what ends up happening is they, here, they went into the game without two bullets in their, in their chamber, you know, in their, in their clip. And all of a sudden those young guys started showing up because they stepped up. And I don't want to say that Duggins is a young guy, but he's a veteran who's got a lot of playing experience. And you know what? He came up and made some place.

did some things right, which says, hey, you know, one of those two safeties go down, hey, you don't hold your breath because you got a guy back there who's a veteran who can play. And the same thing with Ivey playing instead of Dax. I mean, it allowed those guys to get more reps, which they need to get in order for them to get better. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what it is, repetition. And you want to talk about Jordan Battle. Joe, you mentioned that he was learning from wide receivers coach this offseason. I mean, iron is really sharp and I here.

Look, it can be an overuse cliche, but it is something we have seen throughout training camp. Up next, we'll take stock in the second year players from last year's Bengals draft class, including one offensive lineman who I would feel very comfortable if he had to play in or start a game. This episode of the Bengals squad show is brought to you by Square. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, whoa, that was fast. Well, it was probably square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, running a packed game day spot, or managing a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the

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slash G-O-L-C-K-E-D-O-N-N-F-L. Run your business smarter with Square get started today. Look, that Bengals Steelers game that I mentioned last year that the Bengals won a blest your coach in Cincinnati on Thursday night football. A lot of stars in that game, Joe Flacko, Jamar Chase, Chase, Chase Brown, T. Higgins. You know one guy that I was really impressed with that night? Jalen Riffers started at right card, held his own, against the Steelers' defensive line.

So I would feel comfortable if it ever comes to that, gosh forbid this. season where if Jalen Rivers has to come in during a game or start a game, that he could perform well. What do you guys think? So I spoke to Jalen Rivers this afternoon after practice for about five minutes at his locker. And this is coming off a conversation I had with Duke Tobin last week when Duke Tobin said that they feel so comfortable with Jalen Rivers right now in the way he's performed at guard during training camp. They want him to start working at tackle as well. So he's going to start making that transition this week is what Jalen said so that he can be able to play any position on the offensive line. He said, you know what? I feel comfortable

putting myself in position. They wanted to put me at center that I could go in there and do it. I obviously don't think that's going to happen. But you're looking at a guy who wants to make himself as versatile as possible on the offensive line. to play either guard position, to play either tackle position. And just like we said with the depth you need at corner, you need that with the offensive line as well. To me, it's still one of the curious points of this entire Bengals roster that we all think is a roster that's good enough to win the AFC North

and win playoff games. Is their offensive line going to hold up this season? I think we all really like Amarius Mims. We all really like the upside and the growth of Dylan Fairchild. far. And I think we still have some questions about the aging offensive line, the Orlando Browns, the Ted Karras, and the Dalton Reisner. Can these guys perform in 2006 the way they have to perform for this team to get done everything they want to get done, to be determined. I know a lot of people after the first preseason game are throwing some arrows at Orlando

Brown. We'll see as this continues to go along. I'll say this. The Bengals need a Orlando Brown to be better this coming season, be more consistent than he was last year. He would tell you the same that he has to perform better this coming season. But Jalen Rivers is going to be a guy that I think they're going to try to lean on to be that versatile piece that can be a swing guard, a swing tackle that can come in and fill in for somebody if they have to miss a series, miss a game, miss a month, that he's one of the guys that he was going to be in the mix for them to ascend. and be versatile and use that multiple positions.

So I found it interesting that Duke Tobin said it, that Jalen Rivers confirmed it today, that he's been working mostly at guard during training camp and now feels comfortable enough to kick out and place to tackle and get back to doing that some more and give them some positional versatility on the offensive line. Coach knows it, Alex, you know it. You can only keep 53, so to have guys that are versatile

on the offensive line is huge for a team making roster decisions because they have some guys at the back end. I'll say this. I think this is Zach Taylor's deepest team he's had in Cincinnati. I think you saw that in the preseason opener, the way the Bengals 2s and 3s performed in the second half. Everybody's talking about the defensive line, but the offensive line had some depth. The tight end room has depth.

Everybody knows about the decisions they have to make it wide receiver. So when you have a difficult 53 to get it down to, to have guys who have positional versatility on the offensive line, that is a gold star for a player in his second year. And Jalen Rivers has that for himself. Absolutely. You know what? I mean, if you have position flexibility as an individual, as a player, where you can play anywhere. And now long term, that may you have to look at it that way. But right now you're looking at short term come in wherever and still keep a drive alive and do stuff like that.

And if he happens to beat that guy, he's number six. He's like a basketball. He's a sixth player coming off the bench. And that saves you a roster spot on game day. It's because you're only going to get it seven. you know, so you can get that extra center to be able to dress. Or you can get that extra tackle to be that seventh guy. And I think it's valuable.

And if he can start to come around and do all those things, which if you're a coach, what you're looking for is that second year player making enormous, strides. One, you're getting your feet wet. You know, you've got your toe in the water and you're checking things out. But if you can go out there and play, you find out it's the same game. You played when you were a kid. And that second year player really has to step up and become a value in an asset to the position group, to yourself, and to the team as a whole. Look, I think when you look at this offensive line, when Zach Taylor talks about this team being the deepest that it's ever been. I think the offensive line is maybe what he's specifically referring to because you can even go back to 21 and 22.

They weren't very good on the offensive line. They certainly weren't deep on the offensive line. They caught up to them in that AFC championship game they lost to Kansas City. But when I think about Jalen Rivers, I think about that fumble that he picked up or recovered on Thursday night. The Bengals kept the ball in the red zone. They scored three points and they won the game by two. Now it's a preseason game. But that goes back to the fact that every play matters. You're trying to win a game here. The fact that you have depth in Jalen Rivers, the fact that you have versatility and flexibility, which are two core values of this game that may not get talked about a lot. And then you also have Dylan Fairchild, who had a really solid rookie season. He's got expectations coming into year two and give the Bengals front office credit for drafting him

and for him becoming part of this team starting offensive line right away. Now, when it comes to second year players, all the attention is going to the two linebackers, Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight Jr. Joe, you've been at training camp essentially every day. What are you seeing and hearing from them specifically and other people you talk to about Carter and Knight? Yeah, let me start with what other people are saying about them because I think it's interesting. And I'll go back to my conversation with Duke Tobin and evaluating what they're seeing in year two. And Zach Taylor has said things similar to what Duke said is the idea that they feel and look so much more comfortable in your two.

year two, they look and feel so much more comfortable, making decisions and telling teammates where to be. And with that, they can play faster. And when you're playing faster, you can play more instinctual. All that's great. And that has shown up all over training camp. And that looks good. But I can tell you the evaluation process for these two, when I spoke to Duke Tobin is, how will they tackle once they start playing in games? And until they get to that point, because they're not tackling at training camp. They just don't do it. Now, you might get a little bit more of that

when they have the joint practice against the Chicago Bears. Will they go to the ground? Will that cause guys to get each other's faces like we expect? Probably not. So we're not going to be able to fully evaluate the growth of these two players until we get to that first Sunday against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Everything looks great.

They look faster. They sound motivated. They've heard what people have said about them. They understand that they weren't good enough in year one. But the Bengals love their energy. The Bengals love their buy-in. The Bengals love their natural leadership abilities. The Bengals love their football IQ.

All of that stuff, they are checking those boxes of young players growing in year two. It's what everybody's saying. It's what they're saying about themselves. But the evaluation starts when it comes time to tackle. and we won't know if that's better until we see them on Sundays. I know this. Last game, they played about 50% both of them of the reps that were handed. And you had Demetrius Knight had one tackle and the other one had none.

And they had plenty of run opportunities and they had past opportunities. And when you're a linebacker and you're a linebacker, and you don't with that defensive line in front of you and they're freeing your butt up if you're not making a majority of the tackles that's no bueno and I know even looking at last year Jordan Battle was the number one tackler

the number two tackler is no longer there was the other safety that's not good and you need to be a a totally controlled player in the middle with reeds

and now you have a defensive line that is protecting you and you're limited to that amount of place that to me that that's it's not only indicting

it makes me really concerned the energy is great I love the I mean that's super make plays it's a show me And that's what they have to do. They have to show me who they are. Believe me, I watched, they didn't seem instinctive last year.

And the other night, they just, you know, they were in position to make a play, but they weren't the guy that made the play. It's fair. Others made it. Yeah, well, show me against Colston Loveland, Colquemette, Kyle Madungai, and the Bears running game in tight ends on Thursday in the joint practice. You want to talk about a test? That's what it's going to be for the two years.

young linebackers. Other two players from last year's draft class, Shamar Stewart. Obviously, he's been dealing with that hyper-extended knee, was on the sidelines today at training camp and I think it was like a white pullover. Didn't see a brace though. That's good. Tage Brooks. Now, I will throw my hand up and admit that I claimed, declared myself the president of the Taj Brooks fan club last year because I loved what he did at Texas Tech, even though he shredded UC's defense, Cincinnati's defense at 24. Up and down, but I went back and rewatch the game. and I actually saw some good things from him that make me think, okay, there is still a role for him potentially on this team.

So when it comes to Shamar and Taj, what's our stock in those two guys? I think it's hard to give any kind of a stock on Shamar Stewart. It just feels so incomplete right now. And I think that's the word I use on Shamar Stewart is it's incomplete. He got the late start last year. He had the bad vibes of holding out and then starting late. and then got hurt, didn't have a chance to really perform last year. And then it was, okay, the Bengals have brought in more competition with Boyet Mothfe and Cassius Howe.

And Cassius Howe feels like this Swiss Army night that Al Golden, you can't wait to use this coming season. And I've said it here, I believe. I've said it on other shows that if you were going to create a mythical power rankings of the Bengals' Edge, I would have Cash's Howell higher so far than Shemar Stewart. I mean, you have to be on the field to prove you can get the kind of meaningful snaps that Shemar Stewart's going to need to prove that he is a first round worthy kind of guy. So it's still incomplete with Shemar Stewart. It's not a bust.

We can't put that label on him. We just haven't seen him play enough yet. I wanted to see more from Tage Brooks. I expected to see more from him in the, first preseason game. Doesn't mean he's lost a roster spot. I still think he has an inside track to be the Bengals running back three. I think it would be an upset if anybody took that from him when they made their final cuts. I still think he makes this team and is on this team. I still think there's a possible role for him on this team as a depth piece. I just wanted to see more from

him in the preseason opener had a big drop. There's been no explosiveness from him when he he's got in the ball. He'll get more chances. He understands that. I liked what he did in the offseason. He told me he did a lot of work after talking with Chase Brown, working with specific trainers that can help him in the past game. It's what Chase Brown did. It's what Tage Brooks wanted to do. Todd Brooks hangs his hat on the idea that he's a tough guy in the backfield when it comes to protecting his quarterback and standing up to any kind of a blitzers. That's a big part of being a running back in this league. I just want to see more when he has the ball in his hand.

And he had the ball in his hand several times on Thursday night. And it just seemed rather ordinary. And I thought we'd see a little bit more from Tadj Brooks. So I'm incomplete on Shemar Stewart. I'm stock a little bit down on Tage Brooks, but still am willing to buy back in with the opportunity he's going to get, I'm assuming, going forward. And that's a fair and accurate point.

on both of those when it comes to those two. Up next, one player whose stock is completely bought back into is Evan McPherson. And I know Joe is very interested in very waiting to talk about him. Plus, he's also making coach look good. We put our money where our mouths are coming up next on the Bangal Squad Show. All right. Game of football comes down to the kicker. We all know that.

Evan McPherson. Joe, I thought you asked Zach Taylor two great questions. questions in your halftime interview with him. But you also alluded to something that Evan McPherson told you. Flores is yours. Okay, so the way it works with NFL halftimes, the specialists are always the first ones to come back out. We all remember the Super Bowl. Evan McPherson sitting on the bench watching the halftime show.

So Evan comes out and the Bengals had an opportunity with one second left in the half to attempt a 63-yard field goal. They decided to go with the offense back on the field. And I said to Evan, did you lobby for that? He said, that's not my decision. Of course, I want to give it a shot because he made a 50-plus yarder earlier in the game that looked like it would have been good from 60 plus, maybe 65 yards. He had that kind of distance. Now, he said the win was a little bit inconsistent and wasn't sure if the coaching staff wanted to work on some kind of specific play because coach gets it. people who watch football get it.

Coaches are always working on situational football in preseason games. And if it were a regular season game, would they give Evan the shot? They did so last year in Green Bay. And it was wiped out by a penalty when he hit an absolute bomb in Green Bay. That would have been the longest field goal of his career. But I think what's important for Evan this coming year, and you look back to last year, he made more than 89% of his field goals. He was a perfect 20 for 20 from field goals under 50 yards and was five of eight from 50 plus.

He said the biggest thing was the consistency in the operation of what's around him. Ryan Rico was his guy the entire year. Ryan Rico is back for another year as holding William Wagner is back for another year. So when you have this consistency of long snapper, holder, kicker, it kind of takes any thought out of the kicker's mind of worrying about how is this going to play out. He has trust. He has dependability in his long snapper and in his holder and now can just focus on his game. And I think you saw it last year.

He was healthy. He had consistency. And it led to his most accurate season near 90%. Does he want to be better, longer, more accurate than 50 plus, of course. but he certainly was confident that if he were given a shot at the end of the half from 63 plus, he was confident he could knock that through. And the idea of having a kicker as a weapon is a huge part of winning games in the NFL. You look back at into your point, kickers win games.

Kickers win huge games, big games, playoff games all the time. So if you can get back to Evan McPherson and having that kind of confidence that, you had in him in 2021, the guys never missed a kick in the playoffs, right? He's perfect in the playoffs. If you have that kind of weapon, that's a difference maker for a team once you try to win playoff games. Absolutely. Hey, let him kick. Let him kick. You know what? I mean, would that, a kick from that far would have, A, it would have allowed him with a live rush to kick, an attempt to kick with a live rush, unlike practice or when you're out there with your PVC pipe and you're doing all that stuff. They, what it does is it builds confidence in him. Now he kicks and he

makes it. You're going in with a tremendous high. Instead, you go in on a fourth and eight and everybody's going, what was that? Yeah. You know, give the kid an opportunity. You know, I think he has been, if you look at even last year with all the struggles when Joe wasn't in there and the other Joe was in there and he kept the team alive because when he was called on, he went out and performed. Yeah. And like I had talked about before, hey, the great thing about a place kicker and a punter is they are erasers. they erase somebody else's not problem, but their deficiency in getting A, a first down, or B, pinning people back.

So, hey, let them get out there. It's the preseason for going to say. That's why a lot of people go for two. You know, I want to see what they're capable of doing. So why not? Let him boot it. I kind of wish sometimes the Bengals would make Evan McPherson more of a weapon than he already is. because you link about it.

We talked about this coach on Thursday's postgame show. You think about Cam Little with the Jaguars. When the Jaguars get to their own 40-yard line as opposing defense, you're nervous. When they get to their own 40, you are nervous. You think about Brandon Aubrey and the Cowboys. When the Cowboys get to their own 40-yard line, you're nervous as an opposing defense.

Chris Boswell still has a big leg. So Evan McPherson has shown you he can hit from 65 yards. Now, albeit again, it's in practice. But still, sometimes I come away from, certain parts of games or games overall and say, kind of wish I McPherson would be more utilized than he is. Now, when you have Joe Barrow, Jamar, Chasing de Higgins, you want to go down swinging with those guys. But if you're in a position, like if you're, let's say, third and 15 at the 45-yard line, you have that option in the back of your head. Go for the jugular onto Jamar. Z. If you miss,

we're still going to get three points potentially, even though we're still at the 45-yard line. Like, The 40s, Coach, I don't know if you feel this way, but like in between the 40s is kind of a tricky part of the game because like you're not really close to scoring. You're not in your own territory. You're like in the middle. That's where decisions have to be made that can win or lose games. If you have a weapon like McPherson, you can win games that way. Yeah. You know what?

The longer the kick, you have to understand that the defense, that part of the special teams, you're only going to have to block 10 because they're probably going to put one guy back, right? So they put one guy back that takes away an edge player or a guy that's covering a tight end. It puts yourself in that situation. And normally with a long kick, the rush comes down the middle because now your big guys up front got to stud it up because they want push because the ball comes out lower. the further away you are. And now, hey, can your old line, tight hands go down on cover? Maybe they haven't worked on that.

Maybe they don't know. So, hey, might as well check it out. Exactly. Joe, is it you who said on the broadcast on Thursday? Either you said it or Mike or Anthony said it, that Evan McPherson hasn't had to think about the kicking operation in over a year. And I can't tell you how important that is for a guy like him. That's, yes.

and that's what he has said consistently throughout this. And even Darren Simmons said the same thing. And the one thing that they thought improved throughout last year and needed to take a step up. And I know, listen, we're getting nerdy here talking about the kicking operation for field goal kickers. But to your point where you made the claim that DJ Ivy is going to make a play to win a game this year, kickers win multiple games.

Kickers win big games. So this is an important part of football. Ryan Rico, the Bengals punter, he's also the holder. He bought a jugs machine in the offseason to practice at home. So you can imagine, like, being his neighbor, and you hear that jugging machine, and worrying in the backyard. You look at what is going on over there. It's Ryan Rico doing everything he can to make sure that he's not on Evan McPherson's mind.

Because when you're kicking, if you're not worried about the snobreiber. and you're not worried about the hold, you know those are going to be taken care of. You can focus on what you have to do to be consistent. Everybody looked at the 2024 season and wondered why Evan McPherson's numbers were down. He was banged up. He was injured. The groin was a serious issue for him. But the operation wasn't as consistent as it is now. When you have consistency and the operation, kicker's confidence goes up and you see

what he did last year. Almost 90% made field goals. Everything, 100% from 50 and below. So anything from 30 to 50 yards, 20 for 20. That's what you got to have. You got to make the gimmies. You got to make those. And then you get a high percentage of 50 plus. Weaponized Evan McPherson in 2006. It will pay off for this team come at the end of the year. And quite honestly, at some point, there's going to be a game this year. He's going to have to make one for. them 60 yards, near 60 yards or above 60 yards for this team to win a game, to force overtime, to win it in overtime. He's going to have to make a bomb at some point this year for this team to win a game. He'll get a shot. It'll happen. It's the way the league is. It's one score games on

repeat week after week after week. And it's situational football. And it's playmaking. And playmaking can be a kicker. So weaponize him. I'm with coach. Let him kick. Give him a shot. See what you got. Build his confidence or at least have an understanding of what's the max you can push this guy to on the field so you know come week eight, week 10 or January football, what you can rely upon with Evan McPherson. Five times in 2021, he made a game winning field goal, including two times in the playoffs and for what it's worth, the leading score in Super Bowl 60 this past February will see a kicker Jason Sanders with 15 points. Just going to throw that out there, that kickers can absolutely be well.

weaponized. You know what? He won this game. They scored once, right? Yeah, one touchdown. And the rest of the points were his. So it's not necessarily at the end of the game. It's during again, Gant points on the board. Yeah. By whatever means possible. Yeah, he made six field goals on Thanksgiving last year. And it goes back to the special teams operation. Now it's him, Ryan Rico, William Wagner, in 2021, why he was so good is because he had Kevin Huber and Clark Harris. And then Clark Harris got hurt in week one to 22. So they worked in Cal out of Midas. And it worked for two years, although they had, you know, trying to figure out who was going

to hold. It was Drew Christman. And then 24 was Rico, which that took some time. Unfortunately, it cost him the game against the Ravens, which we all remember. But last year, you saw him really bounced back after an injury. And then now you're going to hopefully see the full 2021 version of him again this season. Joe, programming note, do you know what time

the joint practice is on Thursday with the Bears? If you can fill a bust here for about two minutes, I can pull up my email and give you that answer. That's a great question. And I have it in my email,

but I'll give the floor back to you. We'll go two minutes here. Coach, you and I are back this week, midweek show. As we talk all things, Bengals, with the training camp coming to a close, joint practice with the Bears. looking ahead to the preseason game number two against the bear of Saturday night.

And then coach you and I are back late Saturday night, Sunday morning post game reaction show, you, me, Mike Santagana, and Evan Stacey. Then the Bengals are at the Eagles in week three of the free season. And of course, we will have coverage that night. So much to get to, I tell you, this is a really fun time of year. The full preseason schedule with our ad schedule, a little wonky here at the lockdown podcast or up with Bengals Squad show. And obviously keep listening to Jake Lose,

and Joe Goodberry on lockdown bangles. They've been doing a tremendous job. They had a really good post game show the other night. Programming notes continuing. Joe, we were able to look that up just yet? I know you kind of. Yes, Thursday 10 to noon joint practice. And then Joe Burrow will speak after the practice.

So a big day for the Bengals on Thursday, especially the starters on Thursday. Okay, so here's the executive decision. What we're going to do, coach you and I. We're going to go live Bangal Squad show after all. of that. I am ecstatic that the joint practice in the morning. So we'll be live that Thursday. Joe, big, big week coming up for you to Fox 19 final quarter. What you guys come? What are you guys coming up on Friday? High school football in Cincinnati. It's a pretty big deal.

It's a big deal. We're back with our 30 minute show. We're also debuting this year on Thursday night, a streaming show every Thursday night before the final quarter on Friday. The final quarter countdown. It'll be a streaming show at 8 o'clock on Fox 19 now plus. We're expanding, going bigger. As you mentioned, high school football in Ohio is a huge deal. High school football in the entire tri-state when you loop in northern Kentucky and also Indiana as well makes it very unique in this part of the country. And we're starting off, don't forget, with a game at Paycourt Stadium. One of the great legendary rivalries of high school football in Cincinnati, Princeton and Mueller playing at Paycourt Stadium one, week one, Thursday night, to get us started before the full week one slate on Friday night.

Can't wait to get started. Catch Joe, Danim and Jeremy Rao, Gabby Sarantino and Cole McIntyre Thursday and Friday. Fox 19th final quarter, they do a fantastic job. Joe, this is a, we'll see you in September here on the Bengals Squaw shows. We all wake up before September end. Shout out Green Day for that great song. It's been great having you on these last two Sundays. You do a great job on the preseason TV network, and we can't wait to hear you on the radio network during the regular season with Dan Horde.

Your old Fox 19 teammate back in the mid-2000s on the Bengals Pepp Rally show this year. Looking forward to that. That's a great place, by the way, for a pep rally show. The On the Ryan Eatery at the downtown Kroger. I can't wait. To get to work with Dan Horde again is an honor. And to get to do some live radio, as I mentioned with doing the sidelines, doing something that I don't do in my ever. every day was an adrenaline rush.

So to get to do real consistent radio work is going to be different for me as well. I thought that'll be fun to. Looking forward to that, Coach, looking forward to talking with you on Thursday. And we're looking forward to postgame show coming up on Saturday night. For Coach Arfallaro and Joe Dediman, I'm Alex Frank and Frankie underscore Natty. Thank you for hanging out with us on the Sunday afternoon. Have a great rest of your weekend.

Have a great week. We'll talk to you Thursday afternoon right here on the Mangles Squad Show. Part of Lockdown Mangels and the lockdown podcast, and we're celebrating 10 years of your team every day. And we are the number one sports podcast network in America and the world.