Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: PLEASE!! NO DRAMA with Trey Hendrickson REGARDLESS of resolution

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Regardless of what the Bengals ultimately decide to do with Trey Hendrickson, it is paramount that there is no drama and it does not linger into any part of the offseason program. Mike Petraglia of CLNS Media joins Alex Frank, Jake Liscow, and Coach Art Valero to break down where things stand between the Bengals and their All-Pro edge rusher. What should the Bengals do with Hendrickson? It was reported over the weekend that the Bengals plan to "really spend" around Joe Burrow this offseason. But what does that actually look like? What "could" it look like? Super Bowl LX saw the Seattle Seahawks dominate the New England Patriots. What does it mean for the Bengals? For one, there's a startling reality that the Bengals, and the other AFC teams with elite quarterbacks, need to wake up to. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! TurboTax For a limited time, you can have your taxes done by a local TurboTax expert for just $150 — all in, if a TurboTax expert didn’t file for you last year. Just file by February 28. Visit http://TurboTax.com/local to book your appointment today. FanDuel The Winter Games are on. And there’s no better way to follow them than with a bet on FanDuel. FanDuel - Play your game. Indeed Listeners of this show get a $75 Sponsored Job Credit to help give your job the premium placement it deserves at http://Indeed.com/lockedonnfl. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm Alex Frank, and after recent reporting this weekend on Trey Hendrickson's future, all I'm going to ask is that there please be no drama with whatever resolution comes to fruition. Jake, let's go, the drama last year gave you guys great offseason content, but let's be honest, I know you don't like more drama. Yeah, I get sick of that stuff real fast. I'm here for the football, so let's figure it out and move forward. Coach, there's also reports that the Bengals plan to, quote, really spend, but talk is only cheap.

Hey, in the immortal words of Jerry McGuire and Cuba Gooden, Jr., show me the bunny. Show me the money, and we got a great show for you this afternoon. Today, it's the Bengals Squad, everything Cincinnati Bengals every week, breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the Queen City, the way only the Lockdown Podcast Network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals Squad show starts now. Yes, it does. It is a beautiful Tuesday afternoon here in Cincinnati.

Welcome to Bengals Squad on the lockdown. Bengals YouTube channel and the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. We're presented by Fandul, the Winter Olympics are happening right now. And with Fanduel, if I can pull this up here, there's no better way to follow them than with a bet on Fandual. fan dual play your game. I'm Alex Frank. He's Jake Liscoe. He is Coach Arpa Lauer. And today we are joined by a very special guest, a man that I am proud to call one of my many mentors. He covers the Bengals for

CLNS Media in addition to hosting the Jungle War podcast on the CLNS Media Network. And he also covers the Reds, Bearcad, Xavier Musketeers, and now the only undefeated team in college basketball, the Miami Red Hawks. He is indeed, Trags, Mike Petralia. Tracks, welcome to the Eagle Squads, Joe, your first appearance. We are delighted to have you on. I just got to, I just got to ask you this. Yes. Real quick. You covered the Patriots in Boston. And you cover two Super Bowls. One of them they won, one of them they lost. Ironically, they did the same team, Philadelphia Eagles. What was your take on Super Bowl 60, this Patriots team, and the Patriots teams that you covered in Boston? I think one of the Seattle Seahawks said it, one of the defensive

of Lyman and he said if we could get to Drake May, we knew we could not only disrupt their game plan, we could destroy their game plan. That's what you saw. They broke Drake May. I think May went into that game actually injured his left shoulder, or his right shoulder, his throwing shoulder was actually pretty banged up. I think we saw some ill effects of that and some repercussions and the results were not good for Drake May. He just couldn't throw the ball with authority. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket, and he was facing an all-time defense. The way the Seattle Seahawks played in that game, Super Bowl 60 on Sunday in Santa Clara, was as good as any defense has ever played in any Super Bowl. And yes, I'm including the 85 Bears. I'm including the Legion

of Boom back in Super Bowl 48 against the Denver Broncos. I'm including the Patriots when they held the St. Louis, I'm sorry, the L.A. Rams to just three points in their most recent Super Bowl victory. That would be Super Bowl 53 in Atlanta. That was as good at defensive performance ever in any Super Bowl by any team. Jake and Coach, real quick before we get to the topic of conversation, Dr. Hendrickson, your thoughts. Coach, congratulations to your former team, the Seattle Seahawks on winning Super Bowl 60. Your guys' thoughts on what you saw Sunday night in Santa Clara. Drake May has been terrible these entire playoffs. I don't care about his shoulder.

He was terrible to start the game against the Bengals too. And full disclosure, my exposure to Drake May this year includes the Bengals game in the playoffs. And based on those exposures, and honestly, after watching him start the game against the Bengals and the Bengals defense this year, I was asking the question as to why he was being considered for an MVP. And I understand that he played MVP-level football

on a bunch of games that weren't against the Bengals and weren't in the playoffs. but the way he was playing going into this game against good defense is maybe really question it. As long as Sam Darnold didn't turn into a pumpkin and he didn't, they took care of the ball in Seattle. That's about how I thought the game would go, maybe a little bit more lopsided than I thought it would be. But you're right, Trags, one of the best defensive performances we've ever seen in a Super Bowl. Aaron Schatz measures this with DVOA, of course. So we can put a stat to it if we want.

And the Ravens were in line to be the fourth best DVOA performance ever until the end of the game. The garbage time stuff brought them down a little bit, the late touchdown. But the 2000 Ravens coming in just ahead of the 85 Bears tracks and the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers right there in third. So some pretty good performances up there at the top. But I wasn't surprised. Coach, were you surprised with the way this game went? Oh, you know what? Not at all.

You know what? When the game, all you heard during the whole game via social media was how boring the game was. Well, it was if you're not a defensive person. You know, if you're a defensive guy and you really study football, shoot, it was actually a great game on both sides. You know, when you're, it's three to nothing, six to nothing, nine to nothing, 12. you know, it's like both defenses were playing outstanding, and it was just don't lose it on offense. And my hat's off to John Schneider and Coach McDonald and those guys, they did a great job. And unfortunately for the Patriots, they ran into a buzzsaw and, you know, Cinderella lost her slipper.

No, that's a great point there, coach, because the biggest thing for me, and I think I mentioned this on Friday show, I said that the Seattle Seahawks had the ability to overpower both sides. to the line of scrimmage, and that's exactly what they did. Six sacks on defense. They rushed the ball like crazy. Kenneth Walker, or they ran the ball like crazy, excuse me. Kenneth Walker, Super Bowl 60 MVP, had the most rushing yards by running back into Super Bowl since Terrell Davis and Super Bowl 32 back in 1998. So just a great all-around performance by the Seahawks. But let's take this back, of course. This is the Pengel Squad. Show for more on the Seahawks. Check out the Seahawks. They do a great job.

Mike, I'm going to turn to you first because you around the team on a daily basis. You've been around this team the last three years when the saga of Trey Hendrickson has taken place. And look, all signs, maybe most of the signs we talked about this on Friday, Coach, yours truly Mike's antagonist. That Trey Hendrickson probably won't be here in 2006. But it's not a foregone conclusion. So I'm going to ask you, Mike, how important is it two things, that there's no drama with the two sides like there was last year going all the way up to the start of the season? but number two is, is it even a remote possibility that Trey Hendrickson's back on the Bengals in 2006?

Remote, yes. Anything above that percentage, whatever that percentage might be? No. I don't think the Bengals are going to franchise Trey Hendrickson simply because they're on the hook for that $30 million hit if they do franchise them and they don't find a taker and try to trade them. because the way I look at this, I think that the best use of the Trey Hendrickson resource is to tag and trade him. I don't think there's going to be a team out there that's going to want to trade for that $30 million hit. And I think essentially what it comes down to is releasing Trey Hendrickson and just freeing up that money and starting over.

The Bengals are going to have to do this offseason what they did in 2020, before the 21 season and what they did in 2021 before the 22 season. They're going to have to go out and aggressively treat free agency. And I think you do that best with a clean slate on Trey Hendrickson. It is that unknown variable in trying to structure your cap going into free agency and, you know, later free agency around the NFL draft. I don't think the Bengals want that uncertainty. and that's why I don't think they return a soon to be 32 year old

or a 32 year old next year, Trey Hendrickson at that price tag. Yes, he is coming off two great years before last season, but last season is a reality. He's coming off core surgery. And, you know, will that impact him? I don't think the Bengals can take a gamble like that and just hope that he returns to most of his 2024 form.

They need more of a certainty and they need to go younger. And I think the Bengals will do that. Trags, where on the scale of remoteness from like the suburbs and Mason to like, let's say the northern unoccupied provinces of Canada is the likelihood of a Trey Henderson tag and trade to you? Because to me, that's the only way Trey gets tagged is if they are working the combine. They're talking to teams in Indianapolis in a couple of weeks and they line something up. Do you think that this Bengals front office has the agility and dexterity required or interest and appetite for such a move? How many people are in the Yukon territories?

Not many, right? Yeah. That's about the probability of that happening. That's what I would tell you. There we go. No, look, I think they're going to certainly explore that. That's why I think that story was out there. I think the Bengals planted that out at the Super Bowl.

But in reality, and you have to deal with reality here, I don't think you're going to find a taker for the reason I just pointed out. You do not have a team out there that's going to want to take a $30 million flyer on Trey Hendrickson. Even though it's only one year, maybe you have a team like the Baltimore Ravens. And then again, the Ravens aren't going to want to give you a draft pick or, you know, losing draft pick. Well, the Beggles don't want to send into Baltimore either, but the acquiring team can negotiate and typically does negotiate a new deal in tag and trades. Right, they do. They do. But my point is, if you're going to trade away an asset like that, you need to build up your stockpile of draft picks. And one thing that the Bengals have not been doing is aggressively stockpiling their draft. They had those 10 picks a couple of years ago.

They just stayed where they were and made all 10 selections. I think what a lot, and maybe I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but I'd like to see the Bengals get a little more. aggressive in the way they maneuver the draft. They need a player like Caleb Downs, and they need somebody who can come in right away and be an impact player. Maybe it's the defensive lineman out of Clemson, somebody who can be a force in the middle of the defensive line. But with Trey Hendrickson, to Alex's point at the top of the podcast, the drama is not something the Bengals need to deal with this offseason.

They need to have a clear stress. I think this whole thing about tagging them is a little bit of a red herring. It's a bit of a distraction. I don't think, to your point, Jake, I don't think that's the route that the Bengals are going to pursue. It's just make it. Go ahead, Coach. Here's a question for you. Do you feel, and you know the upper management as well as anybody, do you feel like they have the creativity to create where they can stockpile those draft points?

by getting rid of them. Can they find a suitor? Do they put something out? Can, do they have the ability? Because they certainly haven't shown it in the past. I have to go on past performance here, and I'd say no. Look, one of the disadvantages of having a very small front office like the Bengals have, the smallest in the NFL, well documented, is you don't have a lot of brain power

to concoct schemes like this or concoct research. the amount of research necessary to compose some type of trade partner or some type of market for Trey Hendrickson or not Trey Hendrickson, just a way to use your current assets, whether it's Trey Hendrickson, whether it's B.J. Hill, I don't know. Name your young player, a young player under contract. They don't have that kind of brainpower in that front office. At least they haven't demonstrated that in past years. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine this weekend on Super Bowl Sunday. And the one thing that I told him was, I just want to see this front office.

And again, the chances of them doing this, I'm not going to put a lot of stock into it. My thing is with the front office, I want them to see them. I want to see them get uncomfortable. Do things that they have not normally done because you have a quarterback who was in the prime of his career, who has gotten you to the Super Bowl. and the AFC Championship. So if you have to do things that you're not used to doing, do it, see what happens. And I guarantee you you might actually get something back in return.

That's the one. Sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just going to say you look at times when they've actually done that. They've gotten out of their comfort zone. That's when they tend to find success and friend of the show, not this show necessarily, but lockdown Bengals.

Certainly, John Shearham pointed that out recently. And it's when they find themselves in situations where they're the show. they feel like they have to do something. And usually it's because they're forced into something. But when they make decisions that they're not comfortable with, it tends to lead to good results for them generally throughout their history. And so the willingness to sit in that discomfort and do things that aren't their modus operandi usually works out.

And we'll see if they have the stomach for it this year. Here's my problem with that, Jake. To quote Duke Tobin, they've done it before. Why not again? Here's my problem with all of this. here's my problem with all of this. Here we go. And it's a trigger point.

You shouldn't have to get to the point where you're desperate or forced into a corner or boxed into a corner to do it. If you have more people like I was mentioning a couple of minutes ago in your front office to have the foresight, to have the vision of saying, hey, look, in two to three years, we need to be thinking about this player's particular contract or even last year. And I don't think they got enough criticism for it. They certainly got enough praise, and they should for resigning and extending Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, full marks for that.

But they could have been much more aggressive with their foresight in getting those deals done earlier, setting their cap up much better in terms of how they can manipulate it, both this season and going forward next year. They failed to do any of that. They just went, okay, here's the money. Let's just go about this in a standard operating. procedure instead of thinking outside the box. That's why the Bengals are not at that next level of an NFL team that's perennially

competing for championships. Yeah, Howie Roseman and John Schneider. John Schneider, exactly. Better general managers. They've won the last two Super Bowls. Those guys are at the bleeding edge of doing things in the NFL. You go back and look at Lockdown Bengals after the details came out around the T. Higgins and Jamar Chase contracts.

Of course, we celebrated getting them done as soon as those deals got done. and they do deserve credit for that. But as soon as we got those contract details, there's an episode, and I saw it today because I was looking at our past episodes. Cap now practice with the way they structured those deals. And Duke Tobin often scoffs when reporters bring up or ask questions about contract structures,

like, oh, you guys want to talk about guarantee. You guys want to talk about contract structures? Yeah, we do. We understand it. That literacy exists now. And we understand that there's more of the Bengals could be doing year over year. and not just in the case of T. Higgins and Jamar Chase. And the question of the front office,

and we did not ask us and probably should have, why don't you have more people in your front office researching CAP data? Why don't you have more CAPologists, so to speak? Or a single one. Or a single one. Yeah, that's true. Good point, Jake. Why don't you consider that part of your active roster building

in the off season. I get the sense that they don't view it like that. Oh, Katie can take care of it or Troy can take care of it and they leave it at that. Again, not outside the box. Well, it's caps. It's how they structure deals, having someone to help you manage the salary cap. But the other thing for me is early on in the Joe Borough era, the offensive line was such a best that you devoted all of your resources to that side of the ball plus Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. But by the time you got that side of the ball fixed, you spent so much time on that that you neglected the deep. defense and you look at the way they performed the last three years. The best organizations, Mike, you've said it, coach, you've said it, Jake, you've said it,

I've said it. James has said it. The best organizations of the NFL, they think about all facets of their football team that's on the field and that's why they don't run into a problem every two to three years. And instead, they're sustaining success every two to three years. That's why the Bengals are where the Eagles are, the Seahawks are. And now the New England Patriots were back in the Super Bowl or were for the 10th time in the last 25 years.

I can't argue with anything you just said, Alex. Obviously, the Bengals look at their tranches to use a financial term. They look at their financial budgeting from years one through three, not years one through five. They look at their roster building as, okay, this is what we need to do this year, as opposed to this is what we need to be thinking about not only this. year but going forward in the next and the next day after that and they you know and this has been brought up at nauseam but it impacts a team like the bengals significantly when you're talking about a team that's spent a half a billion dollars on joe burrow t higgins and jemar chase you better

be able to hit in the draft on the defense with impact players in the first and second rounds and where have the bengals failed to do that in the first and second rounds and that's a big big part of their problem there's a lot of question marks on this team and it's It's easy to say, and it's obvious that changes need to be made, but where exactly do those changes start? We're getting into that conversation coming up next right here on the Bengal Squad show. Today's episode of Bengal Squad is brought to you by Fan Dual. The Winter Olympics are officially here, and if you're anything like us, you're locking in for events that you only get to see on the biggest stage every four years. And that's why following the winter games on Fan Dual just makes sense.

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Van Duel keeps the entire Olympic experience engaging from start to finish. The winter games are on, and there's no better way to follow the Winter Olympics in Milan and Cortina than, with Van Du'll. Van Du'll play your game. Back on Bengals Squad, part of lockdown Bengals, the twice a week supplemental long-in-form conversational show and the lockdown podcast network, the number one sports podcast network in America and the world, your team every day. Coach, I'm going to turn to you first real quick. You've coached a lot of great athletes, a lot of warrior-like athletes. When you watch Lindsay Vaughn compete at the Olympics after tearing her ACL,

what went through your mind when you saw that? Well, when she, when she crashed. just watching snippets of her training to get back to where she's at. I was saddened to watch it go again. But it shows, I mean, you talk about a warrior, a true, I mean, competitor, where she wanted to get back in the mix and, hey, I've worked too doggone hard. It's not going out this way. I'm going to finish this thing right. just showed you so much about her and so much about being the ultimate competitor.

There aren't any more of those people. And if she can have a trickle down on some people, then that's great. Well said. Very well said. All right. Shifting back to the Bengals because, look, we all know the defense needs to be fixed. It's been needed to be fixed for the last three seasons, basically. I'm going to bring up a point that Scott Graham of Westwood won brought up at the end of their broadcast of Super Bowl 60,

because it makes so much sense and it's something the Bengals need to do. He said about the Seahawks and the Patriots, they made not changes last offseason, purposeful changes. So you can say what the Bengals need to do. What's the plan? What is the plan? Mike, when it comes to the defense, we can say it needs to be fixed, obviously. But where do you start?

Like what is the clear and obvious repair on the Bengals defense that you'd start? with. Safety without question in my mind. The most glaring need and the most glaring failure on defense was in the spine at the back of the spine of the defense and that would be safety. We all know Gino Stone's not going to be back. They're going to have to find a playmaking safety. I don't know if that's Kobe Bryant. I don't know if it's Taylor Hawkins of New England. They need to, Jalen Hawkins of New England. They need to find someone. one like that, a guy of playmaker who's had success, who's been a leader, who can step right in and take command. I thought Gino Stone might be that guy when they signed him from Baltimore,

but as it turned out, and you got to know this about Gino, he was probably the 10th or 11th best player on a very, very, very good defense in Baltimore, no problem there. But they, again, the Bengals problem on the defense, the way I see it, and the way, you know, in talking to other people around the league see it. They don't build around their young players with enough leaders and enough playmakers. They expect the young players to come in and when they fall flat on their face or close to it,

there's no one there to pick them up. And that's a problem. But in terms of positions, I would go safety, free safety, that is. Then I would go defensive tackle, a pass rushing defensive tackle. And then I would go a past rushing defensive end. All right.

So are you saying you want the Bengals to go from the back end of the defense to the front end of the defense and rebuilding it? Is that where I'm getting now, Mike? Yes. I think you need in a pass heavy league like the NFL and certainly like the AFC with all the quarterbacks that the Bengals are going to be facing. I think you definitely want to do that. I think you want some playmakers in there who can change games just with interceptions or forcing fumbles. and I think a safety has the ability. You know, obviously there are teams out there.

You know, we saw what Kyle Hamilton could do with the Baltimore Ravens. He is somebody that I think the Bengals and certainly someone that Jack Taylor has had a great, great deal of success or respect for in watching him play twice a year. He is the kind of guy that I think the Bengals should be targeting. That's why I think he hear the name. Caleb Downs come up a lot. Actually, Caleb Downs in talking to a few people around the league, it's interesting. Hamilton's not the name that the comp that comes up.

It's Ed Reed. Now that is a Hall of Fame bar. I understand that, but that is the kind of player that can transform, even if he's a rookie, he can transform a defense if you bring him in and you set him loose and set him free and he knows what he's doing. that is the kind that's what you're drafting at number you're supposed to be drafting and number 10 so if i'm the bengals that's the guy i'm really targeting for some more uh worldly cops for caliph downs because edread is lofty let's be real i see eric barry which is which is also lofty peak eric berry was one of the best safeties to do it and lance zirlein has the pro comparison to jelan petrie

for Caleb Downs, which stylistically I could see. The slot, you can put him anywhere, similar size. The reason that you can't really comp him to Kyle Hamilton is he's just giving up too much size. He's a bit smaller than Kyle Hamilton is. He's got more work to do to play as physically as Hamilton just because he's given up 20 pounds there. But don't need to get too far into the weeds on Caleb Downs here. That's not the segment that we're doing. Well, I agree, Mike, with what you're saying, because having a game-changing safety,

that can, you know, cover a great deal of range in the back end of the defense and then also come in as a blitzer. That's the kind of guy that I want to see the Bengals have that can be as versatile, you know, like Jesse Bates was when he was here. But if you have that game changing safety, you keep the top on the defense because too many times the last two seasons in addition to needing to stop the run, the Bengals defense has just gotten cooked downfield, whether it be by a wide receiver, whether it be by a tight end running free. I mean, and just forget a safety making highlight real place. Can you make a dang

tackle when it matters? Can you wrap up on Colston Loveland when the game is on the line? I think the interesting thing, and coach, I'm going to ask you about this is we're going to see this trend in NFL defenses where everyone's just going to try to do what Mike McDonald does, right? And the Jesse Minter, Mike McDonald defenses, that's going to be what everybody tries to copy all of a sudden. And what did Julian Love talk about after the game? And we talked about this on lockdown. Bengals. It was a great question from Doug Farrar. You got to have talent to play that kind of defense. It requires an immense amount of talent, especially up front.

So, yeah, you need guys at the back end who are going to be able to execute at a high level and keep the top on offenses. And Seattle did a great job all year of preventing explosives. But a reason they were able to do that is because, one, they're able to match personnel on a very versatile basis. And part of that is their rookie Nick, Nick Eamon Worry, the safety they have there, who could fill multiple roles. for them as a weak side linebacker or as a slot guy or as a safety.

Part of that is their front is just nasty, man. You get pressure with four, you change the math. You get pressure with four. You can do whatever you want at the back end and teams are going to have a hard time with it. And we've seen the Bengals have issues with that when they're on offense. So coach, how replicable do we think that Mike McDonald's defensive structures are for other teams versus what's the bar for talent that Julian loves talking about

post game that is at an achievable bar to reach for teams to try to emulate? Well, I think that when everybody starts to look around and see as simplistic as from the outside it looks, do you have those chess pieces in place? And if you don't have them in place, can you go out in free agency? I mean, they just got 21 new players and not all of them being offensive guys or being defensive guys as well to plug them into the system when they needed them and they created a great pass rush and a physical pass rush that embarrassed a lot of teams by the way that they went about it. Now, not every team has those places or those pieces in place at this point in time. But I think that the style of defense, that's my biggest question

for the Bengals is where what is your style of defense do you have one and you can't have it changing every year to try to figure it out what you got because you're playing with last year's players not necessarily this year's players and i think might did a great job and i think jessie menner did a great job and it's going to be like the money kiffin uh all of a sudden everybody wanted to run tampa too and everybody wanted to do this but do you have the pieces in place and that's something that they're going to have to evaluate. As far as what Mike was saying, you know, build it from the, I mean, definitely they need a safety, right?

Somebody that can make plays in space. Now, what are you going to do in free agency? That's going to determine a lot. You get a defensive tackle in free agency. If you don't, then you're going to have to draft one. If you get a great safety in free agency, then you better draft one if you don't have one. So they're going to have to work off each other.

And again, I don't know, just like Mike was talking about, do you have the resources in the building to cover all grounds and look under every rock and to also determine what is the growth potential out of each of these people that you're going to sign? I think one thing I want to get in here real quick is the fact that the Bengals over the last four seasons have had a lack of disruptors in the middle of the defense. line. If you look at all of the best defenses in the playoffs, I think something, a number like there were 14 playoff teams, 10 of them were in the top 10 of defenses, DVOA or whatever metric you want to use. Defenses dominate the playoff time football, and the Bengals don't have along the defensive line enough disruptors, especially in the middle of the defensive line, a defensive tackle. And to me, that's another, that is one area where I think the Bengals have to focus, like you said, Art, whether it's in the draft, whether it's in free agency, that has to be a focal point.

What we're learning, I think, is that's one of the hardest positions to find in the NFL, too. And it takes time for those guys to develop Peter Woods on Dame Bruegler's top 100 draft board a day, was it 33. I mean, and Peter Woods was a guy that was seen to be the premier guy in this draft. So we'll see how his process shakes out, but it's really hard to find. these guys. And that's why we know last year the Bengals were very interested in drafting Walter Nolan, but did they have any interest in getting into the Milton Williams sweepstakes? And he was a key piece, of course, for the Patriots defense, which was also very good in the Super Bowl. Don't think they were playing in those waters. Those are waters that perhaps the Bengals

should be playing in a little bit more often, but you're asking a tiger to change his strikes to do that. Coach, I go back to a point, and Mike, I know you've got to run in just a few minutes, but I go back to a point you made about the Bengals not having an identity on defense. Here's the reality, okay? And this is the startling reality I teased at the open of this show. The Bengals organization has not had an identity in nearly 60 years, okay? They've done a lot of good things. They've been to three Super Bowls.

They've modernized in some ways as an organization. They've drafted Burrow, they've drafted Chase, et cetera. They haven't won a Super Bowl yet. And I've always believed this, that until an organization wins a Super Bowl, they are judged differently than teams that have won the Super Bowl. It was the same way in New Orleans. It was the same way in Philadelphia. It's still the same way in Cincinnati.

It's still the same way in Buffalo, even though they've been to the playoffs each of the last seven years. So it's the fact that this team has not had an identity. And I go back to the two Super Bowls they lost in the 80s. They did not make plays when it matter. They could not close the game. Look at the box score and the play-by-play is Super Bowl 23. You'll see that Jerry Rice converted on second and 20, a 27-yard play.

You couldn't get a stop there. They had a third down earlier on that drive. They couldn't close the deal in Super Bowl 56. This is not just the last two years where they have 12-1 score losses. This goes back to the 80s. Mike, you mentioned to me way back in August, we had lunch together at the Mountain Lookout Tavern. You mentioned this to me and it stuck with me that you know the heartbreak of this city.

And there is heartbreak in this city, absolutely. But it's also going back to the fact that the Bengals, do not have an identity as an organization. And I feel like what Joe Burroughs said at the end of the Browns game at the end of the season. This is as big of an off season as it gets. And I feel like when it comes to an identity, it's now or never for the Cincinnati Bengals to establish one. Players create identity.

And as much as that 88 team didn't make the plays in Super Bowl 23, Tim Crumry to me was the heart and soul of that defense. And the Bengals need more guts. guys like that. I mean, DJ Reeder essentially was that a couple of years ago. And there has been talk this offseason of bringing him back to Cincinnati. And I think that would be a nice move, but it certainly doesn't solve all their problems. That's more like a locker room leadership bandaid, if you ask me. But you need to build a whole room of those guys. That's why the free agency of 2020 and 2021 works so well when you brought in a guy like Bond Bill, when you brought in Trey

Hendrickson. When you brought in DJ Reader and Larry Ogun Joby, you brought in studs, guys, dudes that came in and commanded the locker room. That's what the Bengals have to do this offseason, not just get the talent, which is a prerequisite if you're going to be a contending team, but you've got to get guys who can command the room and sit everybody down, especially the younger players and say, this is truly the standard, not what the coaches are telling you. This is our standard. And if don't play to that standard, we're going to kick in the back side. Yeah, that's what they need. That is exactly what they need.

Here's something else that's a starting reality for me, gentlemen, is the fact that the last two Super Bowls, this won on Sunday and then the one last year with the Eagles throttling the Chiefs. The NFCs won the last two Super Bowl 69 to 35. That's the combined score. And we were talking before the show that the NFC won 13 straight in the 80s and 90s, 13th. 13 straight Super Bowls, 11th them by double digits. And the Bengals 49ers was one of the only two that were actually close.

My fear is, okay, even with all the elite quarterbacks in the AFC, Borough, Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Drake May now, if you want to call him elite, I would not, but he has been with Super Bowl and that does matter. My fear is that the NFC, the last two years have shown that having an elite quarterback is not the end-all-be-all when it comes to the Super Bowl and winning the Super Bowl and winning the NFL. the Lombardi trophy. Running game and defense, which the Eagles and Seahawks have had, that's what's won Super Bowls. And my fear is, we're going back to the 80s and 90s when it comes to that. Do you guys agree? No. I go ahead, Mike. The only reason I don't, if, if Drake, if you had a functional offense in that game on Sunday, like the Rams are a functional offense and like the Bengals are a functional offense, you can say, criticize the Bengals for a lot of things. If the Bengals are in that game on Sunday, that is a far different game because of

what the Bengals can throw at them. So I do believe that there is enough offensive talent. This just happened to be one of those years where the Patriots got through because the Broncos had an injured Bo Nix who didn't play in the AFC title game. Things broke the way for the Patriots. They took full advantage of it, full marks to them. But I think they are certainly a candidate for taking a step back next year. Yeah, I think we saw the Ram Seahawks NFC championship game kind of shows you that it's not just defense. Like that's a high scoring game. There's teams making place on both sides of the ball in that game.

But the Rams, one of the only teams in the NFL that figured out how to score on Seattle this year. Sometimes you do get generational defenses. I think they're hard to put together. They're hard to string together for more than one year. And we'll see how Seattle looks next year. I think they've got a great coach. I expect them to be good on that side of the ball again. But the difference to me is just because you're paying the quarterback doesn't mean

you can't have a good team around the quarterback. And then when you have the quarterback who can actually play in a way that when things are hard and you need to just drop back and you need to read the defense quickly and accurately, Drake May couldn't do that. He couldn't get the Patriots into the right protections. He couldn't figure out where his hots were. He couldn't figure out what his answers were for pressure. And he couldn't figure out where the pressures were coming from.

you see Joe Burrow get got like that every now and then. You see Matt Stafford and Patrick Mahomes get got like that every now and then. But you also see those guys consistently knowing where their answers are. And so when you build the team, when you build a defense, when you build a running game, and these are things that the Bengals need to do, right? Like they had great defensive performances in their playoff runs. The last time they had a defense that was in the top half of the league was probably Mike Zimmer. I would guess I would have to go look statistically.

I don't think they got there with Lou, maybe one year. But when you build that team, still a team sport, right? And then you have the quarterback. That's still a massive advantage. You do still need a team, though. Like we've seen time and time again when it's just a quarterback and, you know, Patrick Mahomes has had beat up offensive lines and they can't protect him, then you fall short because you just can't do enough against some of these fearsome defenses

that are out there. But when you have the quarterback, it's such a leg up. You just have to build the team and still remember that you do need a team to win this game. Coach, what are your thoughts? Absolutely. I agree totally with what Jake just said. You know what? And we've been talking about it throughout our segments that have been on.

You know what? You can't just win with those skill guys on offense. And that's who they're building the offense around, which is great. And offensively, I mean, they're in every game. but when you totally neglect or you make your collaborative group of people make mistakes on the other side of the ball, you're taking a step backwards because it is a team game. And you have to play as a team and you have to be loaded on both sides to end up on the final Sunday of every year.

And the NFC is clearly proven. And the AFC, you think to a degree has too, but the NFC has shown the last two years that their roster construction is right now, I would say superior to that of the AFC. Mike, I know you got to run. I can't thank you enough for coming on this afternoon. I'm sure we'll talk to you sometime again, this offseason safe travels. If you're traveling anywhere, and we'll talk to you soon. Gentlemen, it was a pleasure and an honor to be on this podcast.

Thanks, guys. Mike Petralia, CLNS Media, and the Jungle Roar podcast. We always enjoy talking to him. Jake, I know you got to run here soon as well. but when we get back, we will talk more about Super Bowl 60 as relates to the Cincinnati Bengals and particularly what the Seattle Seahawks were able to do on Sunday, just a masterful performance. We'll get into that conversation coming up next right here on the Bengals Squad Show. Today's edition of the Bengals Squad Show is brought to you by TurboTax.

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slash every day. He's Coach Arfallero, he's Jake Lisco, I'm Alex Frank. So I think one of the questions I have coming out as Super Bowl 60 as relates to the Bengals is you look at Seattle and Kenneth Walker and Super Bowl 60 MVP. And then you look at the Bengals and Chase Brown. Are you like, do you feel good about, not Chase Brown necessarily because he's very good? do you feel good about the Bengals and the running game that they got going as the season progressed last year? I think it took great strides.

I think it got going in the right direction in a big way. I really like the changes Scott Peters made over the course of the year, the collaborative effort of those coaches. And I think I mentioned recently on one of these shows, Justin Ruscotti's input, they found ways to get there in the run game. They don't have necessarily the talent level that Seattle has in their front or in their running back room. Kenneth Walker and Zach Charbonnet, a great duo, one of the best, if not the best in the NFL, because Charbonnet is also really good. But I do like the direction of the Bengals run game.

Would I like to see it developed and integrated into the entire offense a little bit more? I think that would be an important next step for them to take, to be able to close out games, to be able to take some pressure off the dropback passing game. But I do think it's going in the right direction. It's not my biggest takeaway from the Super Bowl, I would say, outside of maybe some. some overall structural bits, not necessarily the need to improve the personnel, although I think you could be open to that. Obviously, you're always open to those things,

but the overall structure and priority on the run game and fitting that in with your passing game is one of the thoughts that I would have after watching the Super Bowl. Coach, when you watched Chase Brown, and you coached on the opposite side of the ball, when you coached Michael Pittman, Cardinal kind of like Williams, when you watch the Bengals and Chase Brown,

he watched the Seahawks and the Super Bowl, Do you think the Bengals are right there with what the Seahawks were able to do? You know what? The way that they did it is I think that they structurally, the guys that were in the room, the way that they attacked things, and again, I believe that the Bengals have made, just like Jake was talking about, have made great strides, especially the last seven, eight weeks. And part of it was because they had to protect the quarterbacks, whoever the one was in there.

but they really put an emphasis on that's what they wanted to do and it opened up a lot of things. I think the two, the running backs that we haven't even got to see Todd Brooks yet, really. I think that he brings an element that can really help out because you can't just have one or two. You need to have multiple people. I think that they can do the same thing. Now, here's what I saw on Sunday was you got to remember Rick Denison and John Benton, and those guys in Seattle, they have been together in that system,

and they are an outside zone, you know, or Mike Shanahan-Sanilla team, Gary Kubiak, salad outside zone first. And they did it, even though they did it, they did it with,

I mean, clean runs because of formations, and because they just buried the scheme up a little bit, Now it created creases. So the running back had great looks, had very good looks, and it wasn't that much more physically demanding on those guys. And there was always the threat of anything running outside, opened up things in the middle, running inside,

opened up those things on the outside, because now you get the defense playing two different games. And I think that the way that they structured it, and again, I agree with the way that's, Scott has done some of the offenses as they're going through there, masterful jobs. Because you make them play formations. You make them play shifts and motions. And now where's the ball?

You have no idea. And I think the direction of defenses is going to mandate this as well. Because if teams, and they will, it's a copycat league, right? The more teams try to keep a cap on you. And the Bengals are going to continue to see a bunch of double double. The Bengals are going to continue to see a bunch of cover too, and teams that aren't going to let them go vertical as much as possible. And you can punish that if you can start chunking off,

eight-yard carries when you get those boxes, when you get those fronts, when you get those looks. And so the ability to do that and actually force defenses to respect it and respond to it, when you have Joe Burroughs, you Mar Chase T. Higgins on the outside, if you can force teams to respect your run game to a more significant degree than they are right now, that takes a limit off this offense. That takes a cap off this off.

and could open things up in a pretty significant way when you've got Joe Burrow at quarterback. Well, it just goes back to how you evolve as an offense if you're the Cincinnati Bengals, because you look at all the things that coach mentioned and Jake, you mentioned when it comes to the Seahawks, their offense is so layered in so many areas running game, their passing game, you know, what they do with their tight ends and AJ Barner and what they do with Jackson Smith and Jigba and Cooper Cup even this past season. And then you add in what they can do in the running game, Kenneth Walker, when Zach Sharp and Ney before he got injured this season,

even a guy like Alani, George Alani, he had a couple of carrots. I think he also had an onside kick recovery in the Super Bowl just for good measure. But for me, it's when I look at the Seattle Seahawks, and Coach, I'll go back to you here because it's just so amazing to me how since they've moved to the NFC in 2002, they've been arguably the most successful, consistent franchise in the NFC. They've won two Super Bowls.

They've won two Super Bowls now. And that is on top of going to four Super Bowls. They should have won one they lost. The other one, they had incredibly bad luck against Pittsburgh. And so you look at all the division titles they've won. They keep their head coaches for long periods of time. They've only had three head coaches since moving to the NFC. And it looks like Mike McDonald is staying for the foreseeable future.

So the Seahawks don't only have continuity. They also evolve and they sustain success. Talk about that as in relation to the Bengals. But the one thing that they do, having they shown us this year is they have continuity on their staff, right? A couple of new additions, but those are kind of off on the side there to help, but both offensive, they do have continuity. Now, are they spending time or actually not spending time, are they investing time in the mornings

to work on new scheme and where they would fit with the people that they have now? and then in the afternoon doing all their their free agency free agent and draft crap are they investing that time to where when people come in they've already got it down they understand what they're doing or are they just spending all their time like in the past where a lot of bangles coaches are out on the road working guys out because they don't have the scouting department to be able to help out and you wonder what where they're at. I tell you what, it was funny even having Mike on, the common denominator seems to be the same in whatever broadcast we talk about, which is the front office and how many people they do have in your stable to help those situations out. And if you haven't figured it out by now, you don't need guys like us, you know, to constantly remind you. Yeah. Jake, I know you got to run a few minutes, but real quick, because you talked about Drake May earlier when we were talking about our reactions to Super Bowl 60. So he, like Joe Burrow, went to the Super Bowl in his second season,

and then he just got pummeled by a dominant defensive front in the Super Bowl. So talk about Drake May as it relates to the context of Joe Burrow, what you saw on Sunday. There's a lot of similarities there, right? I think Joe didn't play great in that Super Bowl either. I think he had played better in the playoffs until the Super Bowl than Drake May did. I thought Drake Mike Mae was dreadful in these playoffs and he might have been by EPA per play, the worst playoff quarterback for a team that got to the Super Bowl. I can't remember that stat exactly. I know it was one of the worst Super Bowl performances we've ever seen, but Joe is also not great in that Super Bowl partially because of the protection issues that developed, especially

in the second half. And partially just because it looks like a couple of times, he just wasn't really himself. And maybe the lights did get to him, maybe for the first time in his career. And I think of skipping the ball to Mar Chase on a third down that could have been converted or things like that or he and Tyler Boyd not being on the same page, although I've been more inclined to be on Tyler Boyd's case for that and take Joe Burroughs side on a couple of those occasions in that Super Bowl. But I think it's important probably not to over extrapolate from one game. The Patriots obviously didn't have the answers they needed, and I wonder if Drake May will

develop that. the parallel between May and Burrow is to me mostly in terms of the way that they're able to extend plays and manage a pocket and use their legs. I think they're pretty similar in that regard. I think Joe was then and certainly is now a better processor. And that's what Drake May needs to do to take that step to join the elite quarterbacks in the NFL, in my opinion, is figure out the processing bit on a more consistent basis, especially when things get up. ugly. He got really sped up in that Super Bowl. We saw his accuracy and timing diminish and deteriorate over the entire course of the playoffs. And again, every now and then you see that with Joe, but he's so much better and so much more consistent in terms of processing and knowing where the

ball needs to be, what the protection needs to be. Those are the things Drake May needs to do if he wants to get to where Joe is now. He's in a better organization, though. So hard to argue with that. We'll see how the Bengals answer the call this off season. We're going to be saying that a lot between now and April. But that's how I see Drake May's playoff run this year. He got challenged with good defenses really for the first time this year and wasn't up to the task. He definitely was not in the AFC championship game. He passed for less than 100 yards, completed less than 50% of his passes. And then he just was not great in the fourth quarter when he had a chance to bring the Patriots back into the game. So to your point, Jake, I totally agree with you. But I think it's

interesting how Josh McDaniels and Tony Dungey talked about this on a pro football talk on their podcast after the game. And he said that he was surprised McDaniels didn't call more screenplays or more plays to the tight ends in Hunter Henry, who could have been a mismatch against Seattle's defense. So it just goes to show you. And I do think Josh McDaniels is still a very, very good offensive coordinator. He's best probably of our generation. But he got humbled. And there's an interesting stat out there. I'm not sure if you guys are aware of it. There's a stat out there that the Patriots did not score in the first quarter in each of their nine Super Bowls with Tom Brady. Now, six of them they won. Brady ultimately brought them back in a lot

of them. But in this game, they didn't have that luxury, obviously, and Drake May just was not able to bring them back. So very interesting. The Patriots do play a first play schedule next season. That'll be variation to see how Drake May handles that going into his third season. Jake, Liscoe, always great to have you on the Bengals Squad show. Coach Valera, we're going to go back to some points that Mike brought up when he was on with us today and talk about that as we wrap up today's edition of the Bengals' Squad show, the first of the official offseason of the NFL. We got five months of this. So we're going to get used to this and we hope you do too and stick around with us.

But we will be back on the Bengals Squad show right after this. Back with Coach Valero here on the Bengals squad show. I'm Alex Frank. So I think it's interesting when it comes to Super Bowl 60 because for me, coach, like I'm watching the Seattle Seahawks. I'm going to make this joke here because they move from the AFC to the NFC in 2002, and you look how they've taken advantage of that. So maybe you just got to switch conferences.

I mean, you look at how much parity there is in the NFC, and you look at how much, you know, the AFC has been represented by a select few franchises. In the last 10 years, it's been the Patriots, the Chiefs, or the Bengals in the Super Bowl. And the Bengals account for one of those. The Chiefs account for five and the Patriots account for five. Is that right? I better make sure I'm right on that last 10. Yeah, I think that's right.

Yeah, it's four for the Patriots, five for the Chiefs, one for the Bengals. I am right. Clearly they can't do math. So there you go. Yeah, it just goes to show you that I think with, you know, the joke I just made, you can have an elite quarterback like Joe Burrow. But as you say, coach, and as Tony Duncey says,

it's 11 through 53 that are ultimately going to win your championships. And I think this Super Bowl proved that in a lot of ways. Oh, without a doubt. the way that those two teams were built. And you know what, in my opinion, what New England did was amazing. You know, they added 30 new players to their team. You know, over half of their team has rotated to where they got guys that fit and fit their system. And for them to get there was great.

Now, Drake May is going to be a better player next year and from there on because they've seen it. Excuse me. Just like Joe Burrow is right now, Joe has the answers. He's in a unique situation, much like Tom Brady was, where he studies the game, and he understands what is coming. And now he can direct his players and the people that are on the field with him to make those corrections. And yeah, they're going to get him once or twice. But you know what?

They won't get him three to four. where the other kid just got handcuffed. What I think that they need to do is you have to disrupt all of those things. You saw it just like the chiefs, they fell. You know, just like, you know, the Patriots, they fell. And because they didn't keep up, they didn't keep on cutting's edge, whether it be, you know, offensively or defensively, and they all fell. And I think that that's the thing that you have to do is you have to build consistency.

and consistency in the players that you choose, you know what you're looking for, and allow them, and they then have a couple of playmakers in there, not just on special teams, because I think the Bengals have a lot of great special teams players, but that's what they are. They're not starters on offense or defense,

but they're great special teams guys. Go out and get yourself some other guys and fit in for special teams. Just goes to show you, too. When it comes to the new players that were on both of these teams, this past season. If you get the right coaches in the building, like the Seahawks did with Clint Kubiak and Offensive Coordinator and Mike McDonald as their head coach, and he cleaned up the defense and look at what they were able to do this season. I mean, the Seahawks did not lose after mid-November. So that tells you all you need to know about how consistent they were. And you go to the Patriots, you bring back Josh McDaniels.

And for a third different stint, he took the Patriots to the Super Bowl as their offensive coordinator. or so it just goes to show you the involvement of an organization. You can be as continuity. You can have as much continuity as you want. But at the same time, you have to evolve. You have to continue to stack upon what you believe and get better and better and better. You can't stay status quo when it comes to that regard. So it just goes to show you what the Seahawks have done in the last 25 years.

They've been to four Super Bowls. They've won two. I mean, you know, here's a team. I brought it up earlier, Coach. You're judged differently until you went to Super Bowl. Did you guys feel that way when you were in Seattle? Because that was a few years before the Seahawks won there for a Super Bowl. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, we felt it the whole time that they were in one. And our quarterback happened to be in the first one that they went to. Oh, yeah. You don't want to play Pittsburgh, Matt Hasselbeck. And he knew how hard it was to get back. So all we wanted to do was build a team. where we could get in the tournament. Get in the tournament and who knows what can happen after that.

Because then you start to hit your peak. And the year that I was there in 2010, we didn't have that great roster. We were struggling on defense. We did not have a true number one wide out. They were all threes, but they were playing. They were starters. and we took one game at a time.

That's why we were seven and nine, and we ended up going, and we took one game, and we beat them. We beat the defending champs. Now, the next week it caught up to us, you know, because we did not have a, we did not build a team. Now, after that, Pete built a team,

and he built it on defense, on offense, they lucked into Russell Wilson, and man, it's history after that. But you look at what they had offensively. They had Marshawn Lynch. They built their entire offense around the ability to run the football. And then they bring in wide receivers like Jermaine Kerr's, local kid out of Washington,

like Doug Baldwin, who had a lot of big plays for that team. Like who else am I missing, Chris Matthew, even Chris Matthews. Remember him in Super 49 had 100 plus yards in that game? And then you think about a guy like Jimmy Graham, their tight end. And then their offense just kept getting more layered and layered and layered. And that helped Russell Wilson develop. So all these things that the Seahawks and the Patriots do as organizations, you saw it on Sunday in the Super Bowl. And look, I think the Patriots at the end of the day, they just had a bad night.

And that's okay. They weren't expected to be in the Super Bowl. I mean, they were in a division with the Buffalo Bills. And as Jake said, I think they did kind of luck into a favorable road to the Super Bowl. They played the Chargers who, you know, were banged up. They played the Texans who did not have a great offensive line and did not have Nico Collins in that game. They played the Broncos who were without their backup court. But again, look at the quarterbacks in this year's Super Bowl.

It wasn't of a Holmes. It wasn't Jalen Hertz. It wasn't Brock Purdy. They were two new quarterbacks. So what we're seeing in the NFL is, even though the AFC is still run by a select few teams, and even though the NFC, there's a lot of parity, two things. One, there's still a lot of parity leak wide, because I don't know if the Patriots are going to get back next year.

I don't know if Seattle's going to get back. I think they very well could. But also running game and defense. they still win championships. So the more things change, coach, the more they're staying the same. Absolutely. You know what? And to go back,

we didn't get more Sean until about game four. We traded for him with Buffalo to bring him out to the West Coast. And then we started to click a little bit because the more emphasis was on the running game. And defensively, we struggled. But we had some playmakers there that could make. some plays. And I think that's what you have to do. Status quo is such a bad word in football because, you know what, you're either getting better or you're getting worse. You never

stayed the same. And that's throughout the league that I think that everybody needs to look at it. You know, Kansas City has certainly fell off a cliff because why they're getting older. People are moving on. They're getting better contracts. Coaches are leaving because now they're becoming head coaches. So it's now that's on Andy's plate for him to get to do that. So they're reaching out. They're trying to refill that, reload that gun so they can continue to fight. And I think the same thing happened in New England. Yeah. I mean, look, it is going to be very interesting to see what happens with those two organizations. This is what makes the Super Bowl so great. It's such a big stage and yet it can change so many lives. But unfortunately, you sometimes,

you wonder what if for another organization. And unfortunately, it applies to the Cincinnati Bengals who have not been back, even though they had this, you know, they had all these great players in 2020. And that's what we're going to talk about on Friday show, yours truly coach. You'll be with yours truly and Mike Santagana. I just said yours truly twice, not three times. Wow. And Mike's antagonist. So we're going to talk about one thing I want Joe Borough to do in 2006 that he did not do after the Super Bowl. And I kind of wish he had done it at the time. So we're going to talk about that on the four-year anniversary of Super Bowl 56. Thanks again to Mike Petralia of CLNS Media for joining us earlier.

And as always for Jake Lisco on Tuesdays, Coach Art Valero and I, Alex Frank, and back on Friday. Don't forget, you can check out the newly established Everydayer Club on the Lockdown Podcast Network. Visit Lockdownpodcast.com slash every day or to learn more. For Coach Arfallaro, 45-year coaching veteran Super Bowl 37 champion with the Tampa May Buccaneers, I'm Alex Frank. Okay, Frankie underscore Natty.

Thank you for watching and listening to this edition of the Bengals Squad Show. We'll talk to you on Friday. Right here on, excuse me, right here on Bengals Squad, part of lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast network, the number of the number one sports podcast network in America and the world, your team every day.