Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - BENGALS SQUAD SHOW: SUCCESS or FAILURE? JUDGING the Bengals offseason SO FAR.

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

There are conflicting views on how the Bengals' offseason has gone so far. Is it a success, or is it a failure? It definitely feels incomplete, but the Bengals have made some good moves. More could be coming.  Alex Frank, Jake Liscow, and Coach Art Valero analyze the Bengals' offseason so far and the position it has the Bengals one month out from the NFL Draft.  Speaking of which, the NFL Draft is less than one month away. Linebacker is a glaring need, and it's more and more unclear if the Bengals will sign one in free agency. Alex, though, is going to make a surprising case FOR Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight Jr..  Plus, best player available still may be able to work for the Bengals in the NFL Draft.    Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!  TurboTax This year you’re getting a major upgrade — Intuit TurboTax now has in-person locations nationwide. Visit http://TurboTax.com/local to book your appointment today.  Indeed Listeners of this show get a $75 Sponsored Job Credit to help give your job the premium placement it deserves at http://Indeed.com/podcast.  Gametime Today's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDON for $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply.  Robinhood You’re no longer just a spectator. Play by play. You decide. Trade Every Play with Robinhood. Now available across the U.S. Download the Robinhood app now to begin. Futures and cleared swaps trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives, LLC., a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm.  FanDuel Today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. During the tournament FanDuel is offering $300 back in Bonus Bets every day for ten days. Visit https://FANDUEL.COM to get started — Play Your Game.  5-Hour ENERGY Have your cake & drink it too. Birthday cake-flavor is back, no fork needed. Vanilla-y cakey flavor, caffeinated kick, and no sugar. It's party time. Order Now at 5-hourENERGY.com or Amazon.  Home Chef For a limited time, Home Chef is offering my listeners 50% off your first box, free shipping, and free dessert for life. Go to http://HomeChef.com/LOCKEDON.  FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm Alex Frank. When it comes to judging the Bengals offseason, whether it's a success or a failure, it's important to remember, Jake, that it still feels incomplete, but that doesn't mean you can't want more with what the Bengals are doing or not doing. Yeah, veteran linebackers still would make some sense. But the divide right now that I find interesting is between national and local media takes on the Bengals off season. It is very interesting, coach. But one thing you have to have is contingency. And it feels like the the Bengals do not. Well, you know what? That's the main thing. As a coach, you have to have a backup plan.

Everybody needs a backup. So that backup has its next man mentality. Somebody goes down, somebody equally as good, it's got to step in. And right now, from a personnel standpoint, have the Bengals done that? That's a key question that we'll discuss with plenty more on the Bengals squad show this afternoon. Today, it's the Bengals squad. Everything Cincinnati Bengals. every week. Breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the Queen City,

the way only the Lockdown Podcast Network can. From the jungle to the playoffs, the Bengals Squad Show starts now. One of my favorite weeks of the year, even though my bracket is completely busting as I picked Florida to go to the final four-end national championship. We welcome you to the bangle squad show on lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. He's Jake Liscoe, he's coach Art Valero, where he will coach with his first game with the Orlando storm this coming weekend. So we're happy about that. I'm Alex Frank.

We've got plenty to get to on today's show. I am going to give my case for Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. We'll discuss that. But first, the big overarching topic. Oh, is that the right word? The overriding topic on today's show. Success or failure, the Bengals off season. And Jake, you mentioned it in the open.

And I find this very interesting. Some members of the national media. And Bengals fans love to get on the national media because the national media has some crazy narratives about the Bengals. Well, that's fair. But some members in the national media are actually happy what the Bengals have done so far this off season. Meanwhile, if you listen to Lockdown Bengals with Jake and James,

they're not. I'm not. Coach is not. Other members of the local media are not. So who's right? Who's wrong? Is it a success? Is it a failure?

Gentlemen, go. Well, I think the most pointed delineation between the local and national media on this is that the locals listened to what Duke Tobin and Zach Taylor and Al Golden had to say in Indianapolis pretty closely. And they talked to those guys on and off podium, on camera, off camera. And we've talked to people in the building. There's certainly a preference from the conference from the country. coaching staff as to how this free agency would have gone and everything that the Bengals told us was that they wanted to get more done. We like the moves they made. I have said this. I can't even count how many times in the last two weeks. I like Brian Cook. I like Boyer Amafé. I like Jonathan

Allen. I think those guys all help this team where they didn't have players at those positions on the roster because Trey Hendrickson was gone and Gino Stone was not the fit that they hoped he would be. They needed an interior past rush presence. Jonathan Allen, even at this age, gives them some of that. But when you listen to what the Bengals say and you pay attention to what the Bengals tried to do and you listen to what the coaches wanted sentiments from the building, it doesn't seem like they think that they got everything done. that they wanted to get done.

And sometimes they just don't. Last year, I think they wanted to add a safety, and they didn't. And we saw how that played out. There's a chance this doesn't go that way because other parts of the defense are better. They've added three pieces that are good pieces, and they have a chance to find an impact player with the 10th pick in the draft. So there's a chance that they can build a strength in part of this defense, and that can carry the weakness.

There's a chance that these guys that were rookies last year playing turned that experience into improvement in year two. And then they can be an average defense that we've been talking about for the last few years. There's a chance all that happens, but I think for us, it kind of ties back to where expectations were based on what was said in Indianapolis and what we've heard from those in the building with the Bengals.

And it goes back to Coach. something that we've talked about. Something's off right now. There's not a total alignment between the front office and the coaching staff with what they expect and what the front office is giving them. And that right there is a big issue. Well, I think it is. There is something that's very, very off, you know, management, coaches, fans, media people that are local realize, you know what, when you say all in, we're going to take you at your word because you don't speak that often. So when you say all in, we expected everybody that you're going to go all in and, hey, that's the way that Joe Burrell and build a team, a team, not an offense, but a team

around arguably one of the premier quarterbacks in this league. And just like what Jake was talking about, we've heard it all and now show us. As far as the national media is concerned, they only go by what they can see on the internet. They aren't here. They aren't at practice. They don't see the moves. They're not deeply involved like Jake is, like you are, like the fans are, in terms of, you know, what have you done for us? And what have you done that we can pack that stadium? And I think it really, really is a really a bad reflection on management that you didn't create more and you weren't willing to go outside your little box and not take a reach, but pay for a proven player, a proven linebacker. The three pieces they added definitely make

it better. But you know what? There are eight other positions that were arguably one of the part of the most efficient defenses in the league. And, then three pieces ain't going to make a team. You're absolutely right. And that's a great point that you bring up there because they did get better. And I agree with you. Jake, I agree with you as well. I love the three players they have because you can instantly start them on your defense,

on a defense that badly needs an infusion of talent. But it just, they have not covered all of their bases yet. And that's why, yes, it does feel incomplete. And again, there's so much to come this offseason. There's the draft. There's the next wave of free agency. I keep hearing that they could sign a guy like Bobby Wagner. Maybe it's another guy like Matt Milana, maybe Bobby O'Keriki.

But I haven't seen anything yet. And the more days that go by, the more I'm going to think, okay, they're not. They feel like they are fine at linebacker when the truth is they're not. Now, if they land a linebacker in the first round in Sunny Stiles, if they get a linebacker in the second round again, then, okay, they have something, but something they have right now is not good enough. And that's where I come back to. They've done a good job so far of beefing up the defense.

But in terms of what all they need to do, I know, Jake, you and James set the bar at five starters on defense acquiring and free agency. Maybe that was unrealistic. It shouldn't have been when you saw how atrocious the defense was last year. to Duke Tobin's credit, they have gotten a pass rusher. They did beef up the interior defensive line. We'll talk about that in segment three. But linebacker's still important.

You are neglecting a position of need. And that's where I don't want to say it's a failure. But in terms of being incomplete, it kind of leans that way. It was an off season that we expected to see additions to all three levels. And they missed a level. Linebacker is kind of one level unto itself. if you're looking at it that way. So it's really they missed one position group.

But if they had signed four guys instead of three guys that were quality veteran starter level players in the NFL, we would have significantly fewer concerns. We'd be talking about, yeah, it'd be great if they added another edge rush, sure, we'll see who they can add in the draft. But now it's every time we go through a mock draft, we did a mock draft Monday this week. Say you can draft Caleb Downs in the first round. And I know a lot of Bengals fans would love to draft Caleb Downs in the first round. Well, what if you can't then address linebacker and Edge adequately?

And those are the two positions that we're talking about them continuing to make, or we're talking about late in the free agency process, them making additions at those positions. You can't do everything in the NFL, and I get that. So that's where if you do take a step back, so I was listening to Meena Kimes and Kevin Clark talk about this. They talked about it, I think on the 19th of March or 18th of March or something like that. So it was last week, and I was catching up on it.

and I respect the heck out of Mina and Kevin. Mina is a bit of a friend, and so we've talked about the Bengals over the years a little bit. And when those folks are saying good things about the Bengals, it kind of makes you take a step back and consider. And the high-level view, and I don't know if people are quite ready for this until after the draft, but the high-level view is that, yeah, they could have done more,

but at the end of the day, they still have Joe Burge, Mar Chase, and T. Higgins on offense, and they're going to have one of the best offenses in the league. And the defense, the standard last year that we talked about all year was, like,

be average, be okay, be below average. Don't be the worst defense, as they were for the first half of the season that we've seen in the last 25 years. And they weren't in the second half of the season. They did play better. They got better results,

and they did it against teams that, weren't necessarily the strongest offenses on the schedule, but there was improvement where earlier in the season, they were struggling against some of the worst offenses in the league as well. And so when you take all that together and you consider that they could also add an impact player at number 10, there is reason to think that like, okay, the AFC isn't great right now. They can put this thing together. It's still Joe Burrow over there, still Jamar Chase over there, still T. Higgins over there in offense.

So the bar isn't Seattle's defense. You don't need to be Seattle's defense, right? That's not what we're asking for here. And if you can build some strengths and some competencies, then there's a chance that the glaring hole at linebacker, which is still a glaring hole right now until proven otherwise, is papered over enough by what you've done with the rest of the defense this offseason. They have to get there.

They're not there right now, but there's a chance that it goes that way. And that's where I think, Coach, when Duke Tobin says, we're all in, and they might be all in. I mean, they've signed three starters in free agency already. But I go back to again, what Jake is saying, you don't have to be Seattle's defense, but why not try to reach and, you know, try to go for a level that can get you to being better than just below average? Raise the standard a little bit on defense. Because right now, I think what you've bought, is top 20 at best.

Can I interject for one second about the all-in quote? Because we keep bringing up the all-in quote. And I've tweeted about this. It drives me a little crazy, actually, this all-in quote. What Duke Tobin said wasn't anything that indicated that Bengals were going to treat this off-season differently. Duke Tobin's quote about being all-in was, I'm all-in, I'm always all-in.

And if Duke Tobin is always all-in, what does that mean? What does that tell you that's going to be different this year? He's going to do it how he's always done it if he's always all in. And it's about Duke Tobin. He's talking about his effort level, right? He's talking about his standard for himself. He's not talking about ownership changing the way they do business. That would, I think, be a different quote.

So this all in quote that I've heard people referring to since he said it at the combine, I think, was not the indicator, never was the indicator that it has been made. to be by some that people keep referring to you like all in yeah right this isn't all in well not really what i think duke was saying that that was that was that was my perceptive a rant i'm like everybody else when he said all in now whether be him or me or whatever all in is all in yeah now if you don't mean it don't say it exactly well he also control that narrative i'll tell you that Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I agree with you. But you know what? And the other quote was, we've done it before.

When did you do it before? And why didn't you maintain it? That's my beef with him. I mean, you've got to be very, very careful about how you, because people's perceptions are different. Now, do I think, yeah, I think they've got three great players. I think any veteran linebacker now is putty. You're filling a hole.

that they need to. And they think if they get a name that that's going to answer all their problems. They're on the last part of their careers. Now, if they draft Sunny Stiles and then get a veteran, I'm all for it. They're better. There you go. But if Caleb Downs is there for them, and now you've got two of the two very good safeties, you better spend the rest of your draft choices on defensive people

because you still have front-end and mid-level linebackers and D-Leylandmen, they two have to address to make sure that you got better. And there's a lot of good football players out there. And right now, I think that there's a lot of players that are out there on the last legs. Now, if you're going to sign Bobby Wagner or those guys for a one-year contract with the incentive of you can, we'll add on to this based on how you play, then I'm all for it. But don't sign him to a multi-year deal because he ain't going to last because he's that long.

He's that old. Well, the problem with the problem with that is, and I agree with you, Coach, that'd be a great thing if they draft this Sunday Stiles and signed a guy like Bobby Wagner, because then you have younger linebackers that are a part of your future, but then you also have a veteran linebacker for this year, at least, to show them the ropes in a position that is so important to an NFL team. But the problem is if you're waiting until the draft to make this move, two things that are wrong with that. One, there's no guarantee Sonny Stiles is going to drop to number 10. And number two, what if another team is like, tap, screw whatever they're doing. We're taking Bobby Wagner because we have a need and they ain't going after him.

That's the issue. You can't drag your fee. You can't wait too long. You have to be purposeful so you're not aimlessly going after somebody in the draft who may not even be a need for your team. and then doesn't fit and then you'll waste another draft pick. It feels like that's where this is going. No question. You know what?

They're holding cards. We're playing five cards stud. They just drew three, right? They got three new ones. Would you put, would you be all in to use that quote again? Would you put all your money in there or no? You got to fill it in order to play. And that's a gamble that you're taking when you're waiting

around and not answering problems right away. Yeah, I thought about this this morning. Okay. The Las Vegas Raiders, who I love to clown because they are nowhere near the organization they were when Al Davis was there back in the 80s, you know what they've done? They've actually spent money and they've attacked their weaknesses. Like they've had a very active offseason. And then here are the Bengals.

Yeah, we might do this. We might do that. Pick a decision and go with it. That's all I ask. That's all I ask of the Bengals. The one thing I guess you could bring up when you see a team like the Raiders spending like that is a lot of times bad teams spend like that and it really doesn't work. I'm not saying the Bengals did everything we wanted them to do. We talked a lot on locked on Bengals about how we would have liked to have seen a linebacker at it.

And that's pretty cut and dry. I don't think there's any two ways about that at this point. I would have liked to have seen a veteran starting level linebacker added at this point. But I don't know if I'm too worried about what the Raiders are doing or what some of these teams are doing that are adding 20 players in free agency. That is a long track record of not working as well. Do I think the Bengals are perfect? No, but most front offices in the NFL are not in that regard.

So I do think that there is a fine line that you need to walk when you're talking about the Bengals off season that is, I think, fairly critical, right? Because I don't think that they've had a perfect set of days in free agency, perfect couple of weeks of talent acquisition here. But it is, I think, quite easy to go too far. And so it's hard to find that that middle ground of, and that's where like the national narratives that I've heard from, again, people that I respect in the national media, because I don't respect all of them, I'll tell you that. But the people that I do respect in the national media

that have been a voice in the other direction is kind of like the counterbalance. And I don't think, again, we're quite ready for that conversation. There are a lot of people that are just still really upset with the lack of in addition at linebacker after what they watched last year. But again, I think it's just an exercise and balance and finding the real path that is critical enough to not let them off the hook, but isn't necessarily an entire doom spiral

because of one position on a football team. And maybe it does sync them, right? We don't know how the season is going to go. Nobody can predict how the season is going to go. But at this time of year, we're very, prone to overreactions and swings of opinion based on one move or one pro day or one thing happening here or there. And it's a lot of time stuff that doesn't end up or sometimes it does, doesn't necessarily

end up impacting the season exactly how we think it does. Coach, final thoughts on this particular segment? Well, you know what? I think that when you bring in and only as an example, when you start to refer them to other teams and you hear that the Seahawks added 30 new players to their roster last year. And New England, from a miserable year, the year before, added something like 28. And you're saying, okay, that can happen here. And when you don't see all of those signings or you don't see guys coming in to compete

for positions, right now they've signed starters, not competitors to make the other ones better. And I think that that's what frustrates a lot of people. And I think that as long as they stay aggressive and they know who their choices are and they don't live in the past, I think, yeah, you got a chance. I mean, all of these free agents, we still haven't seen them wearing black.

We've seen them on other teams, but we're going to find out when the season starts, do they measure up? And whether it was a good choice or not. And the draft, same thing with the draft choices. If at number 10, you want a starter. You want a potential in your mind a gold jacket wearer. Yeah. If he's not, well, then he's just another guy. And you can't have that in the first round pick. No, you can't. And there's been a lot of them. I mean, yeah, believe me, there's more third and fourth round players playing in the league than there are first. So, you know,

But, I mean, it's how diligent are you to, on your evaluation of each of these players. And not only evaluating them as not, and I'm not talking about like workouts, that's encelophane. When they put pads on, when you're watching them on film, do they fit what you need? Do they fit the environment around them? And can they make a difference? not only on the field but in the community. And that's what you want. Yeah.

Drafting is hard, guys, and we'll see how the Bengals do. I mean, if there is somebody out there who could nail a first round pick every time, they'd be making a whole lot of money. And there'd be people banging down his door to get those trade secrets, right? But I think one great point that you bring up art and something that we would like to see the Bengals do better, where I'm talking about finding fair criticism is, well, what about finding those role players and spending on those.

guys to fill out the depth chart because there are some positions on this team where they're an injury away from something that looks like a disaster. And so those mid to low end deals, that is a space where I would like to see the Bengals play a little bit more and add some depth there. And so we'll see if they make any of those deals or not. And there's time to do it. They might start exploring these after the draft. They might not. They've got a lot of players on the roster that they'll fill out with a bunch of rookies for training. training camp and for the offseason program as well. So it'll be interesting to see what direction they go. And I'll draft less than one month away, one month from yesterday. We have plenty to get to

leading up to that. And of course, much more to come during draft week and the immediate aftermath. But up next, I'm going to give my case for Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, I can already hear people screaming. I mean, what am I doing? Well, I'll tell you that case coming up next right here on the Bengals Squad show. This episode of the Bengal Squad show is brought to you by Into a TurboTax. It's tax time, but for a lot of us, the old way of doing taxes is, well, a lot, trying to book an appointment that's not the most convenient, sitting in a waiting room with a stack of papers, emailing back and forth and wondering if they really get your situation, well, this year,

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Head to turbotax.com slash local to find a store near you and book your appointment. So that ad player wasn't closing there real quick. All right. So, Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, obviously two glaring weaknesses, to say the least. You could say liabilities if you wanted to. But here's the thing. What I think about the history of linebackers on the Bengals since I started watching them in the mid-2000s. I think of Brian Simmons, Vontas Perfect, I know a lot of people don't like hearing his name, Dahani Jones, Vinnie Ray, Logan Wilson, Jermaine Bratt, Ray Malauuga.

There have been a lot of linebackers since Marvin Lewis became first day coach in 2003 that have come in and have had good careers with the Bengals, which speaks to their ability to draft and develop linebackers. Malauuga, I believe, was a first round pick in 2009. So clearly... Second round. He was second round. Oh, yeah, that's right. Andre Smith, excuse me.

I'm kind of forget, Andre Smith. first round pick in 2009. Thank you. So we have seen the Bengals be able to draft and develop linebackers. That's good. And I think they could do it again when it comes to Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. We've only seen them play one full season. And don't forget that this team, Zach Taylor and Al Golden, specifically and purposefully, benched Logan,

put in the two rookies, traded Logan Wilson. So the coaching staff in this organization are saying, you two are our guys. Could they be that? Maybe I think they can be. And coach, this is where I have optimism with a better defensive line and a better secondary. Can that help two young linebackers take a step forward in year two?

Absolutely. You know what? For those two young guys to be drafted in what, the second and the fourth round, and all of a sudden be thrust into it, first time in their lives or their careers, that they played 20 games. And I know in college you're now playing 14, 15 games, but that's 20. And you're learning a system totally Greek to you. You're not quite certain. So you are still thinking, and when you think you play slow, when you react, you play fast. and I think they learned a great deal,

but I still think that the way that they ended this season, they still have a lot more to go to where they're all of a sudden their reaction times are so much quicker. And, you know, if I was, if I had players that were of that age, you know what, I would be on the phone with them, you know, if they wanted extra work, get extra work. I know what the CBA allows them to do, but hey, you got to work at it. And you can't be on a beach right now.

You know, you got to be, and you can't be just lifting weights. You've got to play the mental game because that's what the NFL is. Everybody's good. And if you don't play that mental game and get that edge, then you're in trouble. Are they good players? Yeah. Can they be better? Absolutely, they can be better.

But it's now it's up to them. And, you know, you made it, you made reference to the guys. that Marvin had drafted, and Marvin was a linebacker, so he knew what he was looking for in a linebacker. And I don't know his relationship with front office in terms of drafting those players, but he knew what he wanted. And he got him, and they ended up being pretty good players. Yeah. And I also think when it comes to Carter and Knight, you made the decision to start them as rookies in the middle of the season last year because you traded away a guy who was formerly a cornerstone of not just your defense, but I would argue the entire team.

So you can't, so on one hand, like, yes, we want them to sign a veteran linebacker, and I still hold that belief. But on the other hand, it's like, you can't just keep going through guys and linebacker. You have to have stability at that position. You have to give these guys a chance because what if they then go off somewhere else in a better system, and then they end up being good players? So you have to work with them while you have them. Knight's a second round pick. I mean, he was an older guy coming out.

Carter was a captain in college. I know they liked those qualities. So you have to give them a chance, Jake. I think even though you could still give them some help in terms of a veteran. That's where I'm at with Carter and Knight. Yeah, I mean, I believe. early in free agency, the Bengals were willing to bring in a linebacker who would be an every down player. And they were willing to pay that guy every down player money. So that tells

you, I think, where the team's confidence level is in these guys. And linebackers are a position that can be tough to transition to the NFL. Go back and watch Logan Wilson and Jermann Pratt early in their careers. It can take a year. It can take two years. It can take time. And that could be the case for these guys, the downside with Demetrius Knight being older as a rookie is you're only very likely anyway, you're only probably getting one year. Sorry, one contract out of Demetri's night. Ideally, if you're picking a player with that level of experience in college, they're coming in and hitting the ground running. And the tackling issue for those guys is the one thing that, like, say they only improve tackling and they get marginally better with their eyes and,

and being in the right spot at the right time and that sort of thing. If their tackling is improved in year two, that's a step in the right direction. That's like the baseline step in the right direction. Hopefully the game slowing down for them, helping them to get their eyes in the right place at the right time, reading their keys a little bit more properly, getting their heads and I guess on a swivel,

they're swimming a little bit out there, sometimes getting caught up in the eye candy and misdirection. If some of that stuff improves, then you could have baseline better players. And there's a big gap between what they did last year and where they need to be, which is why we're talking about the willingness from this team to spend early. It just can be hard for rookie linebackers in general going into a new system. Al Golden was a linebacker's coach that saw the development of Logan Wilson and Jermain Pratt previously. And obviously now he's in charge of the entire.

defense and in year two as defensive coordinator, this is very much a do or die season for this coaching staff, which is why I think there was some frustration in the building with the coaching staff from the coaching staff about the one more move that did not happen or has not happened at this point for this team. But they're going to coach the guys they have. At some point, the guys that they have in the building are the guys they have in the building. They're going to do the best they can with those guys. They're going to continue to try to devise them. develop Demetriusite and Barrett Carter, regardless of who they added, because those are cost-controlled rookie contract players who can be difference makers if they take those steps in

the right direction. It's just such a long way to go. And it's such a, you know, to go back to the poker analogy that we're rolling with today, are like you're playing some long odds there. And you're hoping that you hit. And there's a chance you do, but the odds may not be in your favor. That's where it comes to maximizing your chance at your best chance at gain a hit when it comes to linebackers. Two things.

One, and Jake, you brought up the frustration amongst the coaching staff within the building. They know that their jobs are on the line this season. They know that. If this season turns into a disappointment, jobs will be lost. And you never want that. Okay. You want the Bengals to at least be in the playoffs this year, preferably winning the playoff game and contending to get back to the AFC championship in the Super Bowl.

because then the franchise is heading in the positive direction going into 2027. The other thing is I think about Burfect and I think about Vinnie Ray and I think about, okay, the Bengals gave them Gino Atkins and Carlos Dunlap on the defensive line. In the secondary, they had Leon Hall, who was a lockdown corner, Reggie Nelson, who was a ball magnet at safety. Sean Williams was also pretty good. So they had guys in front of them and behind them that were doing incredible. Coach, when the defense is working well in unison on all three levels, what do the linebackers look like? Like what does good linebacking look like on a defense on all three levels that seem in unison?

One great leadership, total control of the back end and total control of the front end. They know how to get lined up. They know how to line everybody else up. They're motivators and they are playmakers. whether it be in the run game or in the passing game. They make plays. And that's how you become a leader is by making plays. Now, you can be a junior say out and guess a lot of times,

but a lot of times he was right. Or you can be a Derek Brooks and just make stuff happen. Now, I'm talking about two gold jacket wears. But those guys, that is what a good linebacker does. He controls, he is the quarterback on the field. That's why he's got a green dot on his helmet. And, you know, you put that into two young guys, that's asking a lot, that's putting a lot on their plate.

And if they don't get a second contract, then your choice may not be that good, you know, because you're always looking. You're always looking. You want somebody that's going to be there, you know, six or seven years. So he can really feel the game out. And that particular position has total control of the defense, and he can get guys lined up. And I think it's valuable.

Asking a second round rookie and a fourth round rookie to do that last year was a lot. And you add on top of it, the fact that there was so much shuffling around on defense, both in the front end and the back end last year. I mean, you think about Trey Hendrickson, he didn't participate in training camp at all. He was a hold in, basically. He gets hurt middle of the season, misses the rest of it. and then you think about Shamar Stewart and all that fiasco that went down last year, there was just so many distractions where you had two guys that, I mean, look,

they're great guys and that's good, or great, if you will, but like they need some help. And that's where I hope that Boy Maffa and Jonathan Allen up front and then Brian Cook in the back end can help because I do think they can have an impact on Knight and Carter and their developments. because I do think you could see improvements the season. Jake, you mentioned it best, I thought. The fact that linebackers can take a long time to develop. Not everybody's going to be a Derek Brooks or a junior seah or Ray Lewis or even a guy like the Steelers have had in James Fowrier or Larry Foot.

I mean, it takes time for these guys to develop. Now, if you think that lie, if you're listening to this and you think liebackers are concerned, I have another position that may be even of deeper concern. We'll get into that conversation next right here on the Bengals Squad Show. This edition of the Bengals Squaw show is brought to you by Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets? Well, now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood prediction markets. It's not you against the house.

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I can't help. Quick aside here, I can't help but having watched March Madness this weekend. And coach, I know you lived in Louisville. You probably know this name I'm about to bring up. Rick Petino. You want to talk about coaching and getting the best out of a team? Rick Patino is the epitome of that. Like I would wonder if he came to Cincinnati and he saw what the Bengals Front office is doing,

the tirade that he would unleash on them. Well, I absolutely. You know what, but I think the thing that has helped Rick out is the NIL. You know what? He can go out there and now legitimately get the players that he needs or he feels he needs. And you know what? St. John's has done a great job in the tournament. Absolutely.

You know, Rick is an outstanding coach. But, you know, as far as structure is concerned, One thing is, Rick Petino knows who he wants, and he goes out and gets them. Yeah. Or at least he's fighting for him. Very under, he never says anything to indict himself. And he puts it all on there. And I think that if he came in and want to restructure, you know, what's going on,

it comes down to where's your money flow? And I think that that's, I think that, you know what? Duke Tobin might be in that situation. Yeah, he's all in. He personally is all in. Does he have a cap that he's got to work with? We don't know. That's another thing too. I feel like this, I feel like the Bengals once again are kind of handicapping themselves. Maybe not Duke Tobin directly, but members of the front office are handicapping what this team can do. And now it leads me to this. The defensive line, I'm worried, guys. I know Jonathan Allen's a good signing, but I'm still worried about the depth of this position, and it's a position you need to have depth that. You're talking interior defensive line?

Yes. Okay, so interior defensive line, I think it's actually a position that they've, this is one position where they've lost nobody and added somebody, right? That's good. But by definition, they're deeper there, and I think Jonathan Allen is a quality pass rusher. Now, could they still stand?

add at the spot. There's there a reason that we were talking about Peter Woods and Caleb Banks was a guy that we thought probably caught the attention of the Bengals front office and were potentially in play at 10 until their draft process went the way it did. And I no longer really think they're in high consideration for pick number 10. We'll obviously see what the draft brings and what the next month brings between now and the draft. But yeah, I mean, we're still looking for that high level impact player on the defensive interior. Instead, what they have is a rotation of three veterans who we would have like to see them have this level of depth at other positions, BJ Hill and T.J. Slayton to go along with Jonathan Allen and then hoping. Talk about a second round pick who has escaped the spotlight in Cincinnati and to his benefit.

But Chris Jenkins really need to see that guy take a step after you use a second round pick on the son of one of the greatest to do it at that position. and Chris Jenkins in Minnesota. So Chris Jenkins, Jr., can you take a step this year? McKinley Jackson is a guy that when he's on the field, looks like he belongs on an NFL field, but has had a hard time gaining the trust of the coaching staff to get onto the field. So they do go five deep here with players that I think belong on an NFL football field,

but there's not necessarily that high-end player. I think what the hope would be if I were to paint the optimistic picture of how this goes, if it goes well for the team, would be if BJ Hill and Jonathan Allen can, because they're both on the same team, reduce the snap count, the load on each other and say, instead of going from,

going from instead of playing like 700 snaps or 800 snaps in a season down to 600 snaps in a season, keep those guys a little bit fresher, how much of a difference can that make for them in terms of their productivity? Both of those guys have been on the field a ton, and into their 30s, maybe you get them into more of a rotation,

and that improves your efficacy at the top. When they are on the field, you get a little bit more juice for the squeeze when you reduce the amount of load on those guys. So, yeah, I mean, it's another one of those spots where I don't necessarily see a high-end position group, but I do think adding Jonathan Allen makes it the one spot that in addition to safety, the team clearly should be better at because they've added and haven't lost. and I think Jonathan Allen, when you go turn on the tape, can still do things for you at a high level,

even if he's not the player he once was. Coach, based on what Jake saying, and Jake, I do think when you say it that way, they have bodies in the room. But do you feel like there is enough contingency for if something happens like Jonathan Allen, maybe not panning out like Bengals fans are hoping for, or Chris Jenkins doesn't take that step forward in year three

that we all think he needs to? do the Bengals have enough contingency on the interior defensive line? Well, you know what? They certainly have bodies. And unlike the other positions on defense, defensive line, you want them fresh throughout the game. So like Jake was talking about, there's a rotation that goes.

And you don't want to substitute good players for above average players because all of a sudden now you're not, you're not in flow. You're not getting that pressure on the quarterback. And there is a rotation that goes on, excuse me, that goes on. Linebacker, hey, you're on the field. You want to be an every down linebacker. You want to be an every down secondary player, you know,

with the exception of the nickel that comes in, the nickel corner. And you know what? They want rotation. They've got bodies. Now, let's take them up a step a notch, just like Miles Murphy. he was a rotational player then he was asked to be an every down player

and all of a sudden he came to life and I think that was his benefit and it was the team's benefit it showed hey this guy can't play because he's got a great motor and he can do some things so I think that's just like what Jake was talking about you know what if they don't have to play

as many downs then they're better down the stretch and I think that's good. Yeah, that's very good because when you get to those division games, when you get to November and December, I mean, Coach, you know, as you coached in the NFL long enough to know, the NFL is a war of attrition.

And if you don't have, if you have guys that are beat up and if they can't stay on the field, games are won in November and December in the trenches. So if the Bengals can have, you know, let's say Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson, Jr., benefit from having a veteran like Jonathan Allen in the room, and they take a step forward this season,

but they're not playing as much because Alan and let's say BJ Hill is still playing at a high level. That's a really good thing. It's a very good thing. And maybe we see Miles Murphy kick inside more this season. Heck, maybe even Shemore Stewart plays inside more this season. You have flexibility with your defensive line. Again, I'm just worried because if Alan doesn't pan out the way I think he will,

and then you're worried about the young guys like Chris Jenkins and McKin's Kimley Jackson that are so unproven. And then let's say you don't take a big swing in the NFL draft. And I'm not saying go out and get Peter Woods to pick number 10. I'm definitely not in that camp. But if you don't, I mean, Jake, I know you and James talk about this on Monday this week. You guys pick Caleb Banks in round two. That be a good pick.

Second round defensive tackle. Florida, SEC School is cool that's known for their defensive linemen. Sure, fine. But I just, again, do they have enough contingencies? Do they have enough bodies? And is there a good enough level of talent to where they can compliment when Mafei and Miles Murphy are hopefully going to bring off the edge? And maybe even Shamar Stewart takes a leap this year.

I think it's just tough to say that they could have done more here because they spent significant money on Jonathan Allen. And so where they could have done more on edge and I think tried to, where they could have done more a linebacker and I think tried to, where they could have signed, say, a slot corner in addition to Jalen Davis, who, again, I like, but they're kind of thin at corner right now. Could they've done more, you know, at all these positions, tight end, backup, offensive line, backup wide receiver.

Yeah, like those are those small moves that I would like to see the Bengals get a little bit more proactive about making. I think it's hard to say they could have done significantly more at defensive tackle. Like they tried on Jonathan Franklin Myers. That was always going to be really tough. There was always going to be a significant market there. I would have liked to have seen them do the Logan Hall deal for sure. That one would have made a lot of sense to me.

But they signed a guy who is still good as a pass rusher and can still do his job as a run defender, even though he's on the wrong side of 30 and Jonathan Allen. So, like, yeah, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. That's the case for Brian Cook and safety. That's the case for Boy A Mafé on the defensive line, although Mafe might be under a little bit more criticism and because of the guy he's replacing in trade hendrickson and honestly i've seen the criticism

of like oh he's only got x number of sacks in the last two years where he's been really good as a pass rush winner he just hasn't been adding on the sacks like he did in his second year as a pro the bengals were banking on him being able to get back to that number i'm sure i have a hard time being too critical they tried there and they tried with the player that i think is a reasonable effort to try with, I don't have sky high expectations for Jonathan Allen. I think he can be a contributor for them. But if I'm going to get on them for not trying at other positions, when they go and sign guys that I can see the vision for, this isn't like I was critical of the, who's a corner they signed in the COVID year, where he wanted to.

to get paid. Oh, Trey Waynes? Yeah, that was one that never really made any sense to me. I was critical of that at the time. But I was also critical of them letting Carl Lawson go for Trey Henderson. Turns out the Bengals were right on that one. And I like the Gino Stone signing at the time. I would have liked to have seen them make a quick decision to move on after one year. But I liked it at the time. That was one that Bengals fans were linking to the Bengals strongly going into that offseason. So we're not always right about the way things are going to pan out. And that's why we have to see what happens when they're actually on the field. It just feels like, again, from what you're saying, Jake,

the Bengals have done good work so far this offseason on defensive line. But coach, again, it goes back to the theme we talked about with linebacker and the overall of the offseason. Have they done enough? That's the question that will be answered over the next month. And definitely as we approach mini camp and training camp. You know what? That's the one thing.

They didn't lose those interior guys, right? they lost two edge players, got nothing out of them. You signed one. Okay. Is that a draft need? I would say so. That's a good point. You know what?

They were a solid player. Trey Hendrickson obviously was a superior player and they let him go. You know what? There is so many needs. And you know what? We don't want, and I hate to be some pessimistic sounding, but I watch every game.

And I studied every game. And there was something lacking. And then some of the comments that came out, like we can't dumb it down anymore, we can't, it's like, ooh, that, don't air your laundry out in public. Yeah, you don't want. I don't know that. I mean, and, you know, that's your job as a teacher is to get them where you

want them to be and to continue to see improvement as a player. And sometimes you know, and the bad thing about the NFL is you usually don't have enough time. You know, by the time you're either going to sign them after year three to an extension or you let them play it out, you don't renew their fifth year option and you cut them loose. And, you know, the draft is very funny and so is free agency. And we can sit back and talk about what they should have done and could have done and, you know, all of this stuff. But, you know what, it's a show me game and you have to be able to.

And you don't necessarily need to be a marquee player to make an impact. And that's what they, that's what everybody wants. wants to see is that name show up. And whether the guy can play dead in a cowboy movie or not, the name is there. And then they'll cut their losses later. But you know what? I'm not in the building. I don't know what their thought processes are.

All I have to gauge on that is what I hear, what I see, and what the outcome is going to be come in the fall. You know what people also want to see? They want to see wins. So it's like everything the Bengals do now, you can say it's good, you can be critical of it. At the end of the day, if they're three and one through four weeks in September, we're not having these conversations then. We're saying, you know what? Think back to when they did this this offseason or when they did that.

That's what we're saying. Winning here's all. Speaking of the draft, is BPA still in play? We'll get to that conversation next on the Bengals Squad show. I find this very interesting when it comes to the concept of BPA, because I don't think the Bengals are in a position to where they're, they can do that because of what they haven't done at linebacker and other areas of the roster. But putting linebacker aside, in my opinion, and I remember hearing a lot about this,

this goes back five years ago when I was interviewing for a position at a radio station in Nashville, one of my favorite cities in America. And I kept hearing about how the Tennessee Titans general manager at the time, John Robinson, when he would nail his draft picks in round one, it was because they took the best player available. even when there was a need at another position. So in my opinion, if you go BPA, you have better chance of hitting than if you draft for a position of need.

Coach, I'll turn to you. Is it true that if you take the best player available, I don't care what position he is? Can it help the entire team, including one of those positions of need? That's a gamble. That is truly a gamble. And I don't believe that in my mind,

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion is best player available right now. If he fits a need, you go for him. And I know that's kind of an easy way out. But you know what? There's going to be some great players out there that all of a sudden there could be a great wideout out there. There could be a great quarterback out there. And if he falls to you, do you take him?

No, you already got some. You don't have a quarterback. needs, you know? So do you do that? That's when you have to get into a position where if you know that somebody else wants him who might be further down, is your player still going to be available, do you think, and gain more draft credits? Or do you sit on it and do you take what you need for four or five years, that's what you're counting on for that player to be, you know, a playmaker? for you. So I think the Bengals are in a difficult situation right now, that they really have to give it some serious thought. Serious thought indeed. But Jake, as you and James talked about on

the previous episode of Lockdown Mangles, when you have a guy like Mansour Delane, if he fits in need, there you go. I mean, Corner, yes, DJ Hill and Dax Turner are prime for contract extensions. But if you can take a guy like Monsor Delane and other guys aren't there, there you go. I think the Bengals might be in a position where they can kind of say who's the best player available on defense. That's still good. Like coach said, like you're probably not drafting Carnal Tate or Mackay Lemon.

I think you could make an argument for Mackay Lemon if you really wanted to. Like, I think that that kind of player is not a kind of player that the Bengals have on offense right now, and I think that they've been missing that for a while. But I'm not going to sit here and say they should draft a wide receiver. James Rapine will tell you that the Bengals should be in a position to draft Jeremiah Love, but I just don't think they are. I don't think there's a world where they can make that move is there was a picture that surfaced today from Notre Dame's Pro Day of somebody wearing a Bengal shirt talking to Jeremiah

Love on the field, and I haven't been able to identify who that is quite yet. I got to zoom in on the picture a little bit and see who. who's underneath that hat in the photo. But they're doing their due diligence there. I just, man, is it hard for me to see a world where the Bengals can take an offensive player at that pick? I mean, there was a time when I thought, okay, maybe like Monroe Freeling,

the Georgia tackle could be a tackle of the future. But I think with what they're paying, Orlando Brown, the extension that they got done there, I don't think that that's something that you want to spend money on, of the 10th overall pick money makes about $8 million per year. So whoever they're drafting is a guy that needs to play right away. Now, does that take them out of safety?

Does that take them out of corner? Because those are positions where they're either paying guys, Brian Cook, or planning to pay guys, Daxhill and DJ Turner. I don't know it shouldn't. I think that if you can get a player that could be the best of their position in a draft class, that's something that you should always be considering and you should be trying to figure out how you can make that work to make your football team better.

Would they prefer strongly to get a Ruben Bain or David Bailey to fall to them? Probably. Or even the Sunny Stiles, right? The guide is considered this can't miss linebacker prospect, which is something that we have to probably unpack a little bit more at some point between now and the draft because drafting linebackers in the first round is a risky proposition, even if they are really, really good. they don't always pan out that way in the NFL.

That's part of what makes the draft such a roll of the dice. But I do wonder how the spending the Bengals have done impacts their draft plans in terms of safety corner, the need to still add talent to the defense somewhere. If they feel like they can get a game changer, they still have to pull the trigger if they can get that guy. So BPA on defense. Coach, that's still pretty good, I think. Yeah.

You know what? Jake brought up a great point. You know, how, you know, who's coming up? What do you need? Not only what you need, but best available on the defensive side of the ball. Shoot it. It can only help. It can only help.

And right now, like I said, they sign three. They've got 80 others that they can maneuver and play. They're like chess pieces. you know, what best suits you to have, to be in the top 16 in total defense? And if you're there with that quarterback and what you've got on potentially on offense, shoot, you've got a chance. Shoot, we had a, they had a chance last year, even though they were so, you know, with Burrow being out, they still had a chance.

So if you can be in the top 16, shoot, how many games? would they have won when Joe Flacko was behind the center? If they had that closer on the defensive line, and I think BPA on defense when it comes to looking at it that way, you know your biggest needs are on defense, and we talk about this. The draft is where you acquire talent. Well, this defense needs a talent infusion.

So can you imagine O Rubin Bain with Jonathan Allen and Ruben Bain pushing the younger guys on defense a little bit? Then you get some really good competition on the defensive line. Can you imagine Caleb Downs next to Brian Cook? And then Jordan Battle has, you know, a veteran and Cook, a Super Bowl champion, and an all-American national champion in Caleb Downes to learn from. But again, I just wonder if they have maximized everything and they haven't, obviously, because Jake, you mentioned James wants the bang with the draft Jeremiah.

I love, I quite frankly love to see what he could do in this offense. I mean, coach and I talked about this a month ago. Like, you're in a good spot going into the draft. but I think you just could be in a better spot. And maybe they make another signing in addition before the draft starts. Do I think they will? Not necessarily. But again, it's still very early as the draft comes into focus.

But you just cannot aimlessly pick someone in number 10. This is a very, very important draft pick for the Bengals. The key for the Bengals to sustain success has always been their ability to draft. And when they hit in the draft, that's when you see them when in following years. When they have some whiffs, they tend to struggle. And it seems to go in these cycles that revolve around quarterbacks getting paid. They seem to draft well and add talent well when quarterbacks are on rookie deals. They haven't been able to really sustain that with any of their previous three starting

quarterbacks. And they've done a great job of picking the right guys to come play quarterback, given the resources they've had available to them since Carson Palmer. And so that's the challenge here is if they're going to sustain this thing and get to a place where they can be contenders for multiple years again, put together another run like they did in 21 and 22, they're going to have to have significantly more success in the draft. So I feel like the focus is on this year and that's fine.

Do you want to build to where you can have success for a lot of years with Joe Burrow? I mean, you've already wasted three. So why not just try to go all in, as they say, for one year, when you can do it for five, six, seven, eight, nine, maybe even ten. I know the coaching staff's hoping that, you know, they really don't care 10 years from now because, you know what, they are on the line. And they're going to do their darnness.

And I'm sure they're studying and they're working. They want playmakers now, not developmental players. And so I think they themselves, they understand this game. They understand this profession. And you know what? When it's the greatest game ever, it is the greatest profession ever. And it might be arguably the worst business ever if you're a coach. It's hard.

I mean, because you're depending on others, but yeah, you take the fall if there's a disappointment. in terms of the outcome this season. Coming up on Friday, does Joe Burrow have enough on offense to overcome a potential, we'll say, flawed defense, potentially again in 2006? Coach Mike Santagin and yours truly will be there to discuss that and more on Friday show. Thank you for tuning in to this edition of the Bengals Squad Show

right here on lockdown Bengals and the lockdown podcast, network your team every day, the number one sports podcast, number in America and the world for more on how to become a member of the Everydayer Club. Visit Locktown Podcast.com slash every dayer. For Jake Lusco, I guess go for Coach Art Valero, 45-year coaching veteran, running backs coach the UFL's Orlando Storm and Super Bowl 37 champion with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I'm Alex Frank and Franconetti. Have a great rest of your day.

Have a great week. Happy opening day to all Cincinnati Reds fans. enjoy the Sweet 16 on Thursday. We'll be back on Friday with a whole new episode of the Bengals Squad Show right here on lockdown Mangles and the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.