Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals' Stadium Future Hanging in the Balance With Deadline Looming

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's everybody's favorite time of year when Katie Blackburn meets with the media at the owner's meetings and says things to piss off Bengals fans. Let's dive in. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm Jake Liskow. He's James Rapine, and we are Locked on the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Day, lockdown Bengals has been covering the Bengals daily since 2016.

Starting point is 00:00:39 So if you're looking for a place to stay up to date on the Cincinnati Bengals, we've been doing this for a long time and you're in the right place. The everydayers out there already know that. Thank you for making us your first listen. And if you want to join those two clubs of the first listeners and the everydayers, just hit that subscribe button, hit the bell on YouTube, and you will find lockdown Bengals in your feed every day. Today we dive into more of Katie Blackburn's comments from the owner's meeting.

Starting point is 00:01:08 I say tongue in cheek that she says things to piss off Bengals fans every year. I say that because there's a lot of focus on the Trey Hendrickson quote. We talked about that in a lot of depth yesterday. I'm sure it'll come back up today. Today, though we're going to be more focused on what she had to say about what's going on with the stadium. And one annoying comment, one of the things that bothered me the most actually that I've heard of that she said in terms of how the wide receiver deals. impact of free agency. We'll get to that a little bit later, but let's start with the stadium lease. She was asked a lot of questions about this, and of course there's a pretty big deadline

Starting point is 00:01:43 for the lease extension coming up at the end of June as well. James, what were your big takeaways when you saw all the quotes and conversation from Katie Blackburn about the lease extension? Yeah, I think the speed element is certainly a takeaway, that they were certainly hoping And they, as in the Bengals, hoping that this would be fast-tracked a little bit. And by the way, I think that their actions reflect that how quickly they went and they got an indoor bubble after that Super Bowl run and found an area for that. And the locker room upgrades, the rewiring that's going on right now at Paycor Stadium just throughout it. They've upgraded internet. Like they've done a bunch of stuff.

Starting point is 00:02:33 Obviously the renovations that people have seen, but even behind the scenes, they're doing things too. And I think the reason, part of the reason they're doing that is one, the stadium needs it. But two, it's like, all right, can you meet us in the middle? We know this is coming. We know that this negotiation is ongoing and they want to try to get a deal done. And I think so the thing that stands out to me the most is, of course,

Starting point is 00:02:59 you would want it to go faster. And there's some irony there, I think, when it comes to negotiations and that, in things moving in a certain direction. But when you combine that with where the county is, and again, how the county was viewed the last time this deal with the Bengals was put in place. And we're talking, heck, locked on Bengals has been 2016. We're talking pre-Joe Burrow diapers when this stuff was being negotiated, right? So this is forever ago. And so, yeah, there's, there's a motion to it. And at the same time, on the county side for sure.

Starting point is 00:03:41 And at the same time, I think the Bengals want to stay where they are. They aren't the ones proposing a dome or a suburb or an insert whatever you want. They're not looking for that. they're hoping to stay right there at Paycor Stadium. And I think that that's probably their biggest, biggest leverage point is they don't want to move anywhere. They don't want to leave a vacant stadium in downtown Cincinnati and leave the county with that.

Starting point is 00:04:19 So, yeah, I think speed, though, is probably the biggest takeaway. Yeah, the quote, we wish there was a little bit more urgency and it was moving faster. I do believe the county would like to get something done. We just seem to be very slow in making it happen. It's so ironic. It's really, it's ironic. Do we have to spend time and talk about that?

Starting point is 00:04:38 Because I've had fans point this out, too, that I've interacted with in the last couple days since this came out, the irony of the tray negotiations on one side, the wide receiver negotiations on one side, everything taking until the last, Joe Burroughs. Joe Burroughs. And then Katie Blackburn is. saying she wishes there was a little bit more urgency and it was moving faster. I get it, though. Sure.

Starting point is 00:05:08 I also understand the frustration from the fan perspective, but from the Blackburn's perspective here, from the Bengals perspective here, knowing that you have this deadline coming up, and let's talk about that deadline a little bit, this June 30th bowling extension deadline. And it came up in the conversation as well. But the impetus from the Bengals perspective here to know where they're going to be. Like I understand that. Know if they are going to have to find alternate stadium sites, find alternate sources of funding or figure out how much money they're going to have to put in.

Starting point is 00:05:49 For a potential new stadium, if this doesn't work, I think that's part of it too is they don't want to have to deal with all the more. This seems like a much more doable task to renovate and modernize paycore versus the idea of, are, do we need to look in northern Kentucky? Do we need to look in Cincinnati suburbs in Ohio? Where can we get the best deal? Where is going to have the best access for fans? Where's the best environment for all the things that come with moving a team?

Starting point is 00:06:20 And that's going only, you know, a couple miles. And that'll cost them more. So much more. Like that will cost everybody more. It will be more time, more manpower, more designing, more, insert everything. Like renderings can be really pretty, but getting there is much, much harder than it looks. And so when you see different stadiums and I think it is interesting, a lot of these, just in the NFL in general, these stadiums are happening across the league. Tampa Bay, Houston, obviously up I-71 in Cleveland right now.

Starting point is 00:06:56 now. And you see a lot of teams that are like, yeah, let's renovate. And there are other teams that are like, let's get the heck out of town, let's go to a suburb, let's get Super Bowls here and final fours and all of those things. And you can make all of those arguments. Kansas City is another one. Kansas City talking about moving states. Kansas City, yeah, because honestly, Kansas City Stadium is so far out of the way and it makes no sense. And it sucks getting in and out of. Anyways, so I get it. And it's nowhere. It's not like it's downtown.

Starting point is 00:07:26 Kansas City. It's not fun. But it's one of those things where it's like, all right, well, the county may say, hey, well, we need to figure out how to you get more juice out of this. And obviously, there are issues with the current deal that they don't want to take into the next deal that goes without saying. Meanwhile, the Bengals want to stay put and probably want a similar deal and or as close as they can. And that's part of why I. I think they're being proactive in doing things and making modifications and renovations to the stadium because they want to stay there. But do they – are they tunnel-visioned in on staying there? I think that's where the conversation has to go, especially with that deadline.

Starting point is 00:08:11 We haven't really hit on the deadline specifically what it could mean, all of that. So let's do that because stadium talk, ready or not, it is here. We'll get into the deadline coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Nissan. The Armada Player of the Week is brought to you by our friends at Nissan. And the all-new 2025 Nissan Armada. Each week, we're taking a look at our draft prospects, a typical one guy that stands apart.

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Starting point is 00:10:08 The end of June, the Bengals have a deadline to exercise the first two-year extension or reach a deal. and if they don't at that point well who knows what happens the the lease is over pretty quick yeah let's start with this because we were doing the irony from like joe burrow and like this is such a more in-depth harder negotiation it's just going to take more time in general than a player contract and i think that goes without saying but i'll point that out so two yeah that that june deadline if they pick up that that option and they don't have that security, then they have to think elsewhere. Then they have to start looking. They have to get things moving. They have to get rolling with plans B, C, D, and E. That's their job. And by the way, on the other side, if Hamilton County

Starting point is 00:11:07 doesn't agree and the Bengals can't come to an agreement with Hamilton County, well, then the county better start thinking about what the heck they're going to do on the riverfront if the Bengals are gone in two years because that's not out of it's not crazy to think it's also not crazy to think that these surrounding suburbs wouldn't do whatever it takes to get the Cincinnati Bengals there and there there's been plenty of jokes among us media folks about that but it's true like you're you're telling me that surrounding areas. I'm not going to name them now, but wouldn't love,

Starting point is 00:11:45 whether it's in Northern Kentucky, whether it's up I-71 a little bit, in Butler or Warren County, of course they would love to have the Cincinnati Bengals there. And so that's, that's what the Bengals. I think the Bengals are trying to avoid.

Starting point is 00:12:04 I think Hamilton County should try to avoid it. Ultimately, the Bengals want to stay there. If you're Hamilton County, I don't know why you would want an empty stadium just sitting there, and that's going to be a nightmare to figure out. And unless you're launching a flag football team featuring James Rupin and Jake Lisco, I would suggest that you figure a deal out. But if that doesn't happen, then the Bengals have to have backup plans in place.

Starting point is 00:12:26 And so if they pick up that extension, all hands on deck was figuring out a potential new home for the Cincinnati Bengals. That has to be their mindset. That's the interesting thing about the extension, right? if you don't get a deal done by June 30th, either way, does that mean the Bengals are looking elsewhere? The two-year extension does technically give them an opportunity to continue to work on figuring something out with Hamilton County,

Starting point is 00:12:52 but at that point, has it just gotten past a point in overturn? I would say probably not, but it might. You don't know for sure. It does seem like, judging from Katie's quotes, it does seem like their top priority is staying in Cincinnati, staying where they are. And we've covered that. They don't want to move.

Starting point is 00:13:16 They don't want to deal with a headache. She said, we love where we are. I'm a big proponent of being downtown. I think that's a great thing for our city. I think the location of the stadium right now is good. I think our stadium obviously needs to continue to be maintained appropriately. You want to keep it at a certain level. That's important.

Starting point is 00:13:31 So we're competitive with others. She also said that she thinks the county wants to get something done. And it kind of reminds me a little bit. that the parallels between this and Trey Hendrickson continue to stand out, the urgency, the desire to get something done, and the difficulty of continuing to negotiate a deal

Starting point is 00:13:53 that is going to involve some of the Blackburn Brown family money, is going to involve some of the county's money, is going to involve the NFL's money. And we've already talked about that. That was a while ago. The Bengals secured some money from the NFL's money, from the NFL and is hopefully in the eyes of the Bengals going to involve some state money as the state has set aside some money to work on stadiums.

Starting point is 00:14:19 And there's obviously a lot of that that could go up to the Cleveland Browns. And you're talking about domes and suburbs. You're talking about the Cleveland Browns, but talking about a new stadium for the Browns and more money from the Haslums with that potential stadium deal could get more state money. So there's all these different players that need to get aligned in terms of, of funding and what they're agreeing to for funding, what the Bengals want versus what the county is offering or what the county is suggesting. You got this new consultant who supposedly knows how to negotiate stadium deals that has

Starting point is 00:14:53 been introduced from the county side of things and a lot of moving parts there. But while they're taking it day by day and Katie wasn't ready to make any bold proclamations about what's going to happen, because like Trey Hendrickson, she wasn't ready to say she knew, it's certainly going to be dramatic, especially with leaked emails out there on the internet, adding fuel to the fire here. Yeah, I think that it's, this is very real. And that's why I, you're right. It won't be past the, I doubt it would be past the point of no return June 30th.

Starting point is 00:15:35 But if I'm the Bengals, like my mindset would be, all right, then. Like that's it. Like I would have already communicated, hey, June 30th is it. If you do that, then we have to look at other options because that's fast. Like two years, that's fast. Like you have to figure out a ton. And I get it. They've probably done some research already.

Starting point is 00:15:57 You can't just go in blind and just get that. But man, would I have plans? I'd be moving on it now and all hands on deck the moment that you have to exercise that option. and there are rolling up. So let's say they do figure out a site. Well, there's another two-year option. Like, they can pick those up. And so for the next four years, be at Paycor Stadium.

Starting point is 00:16:21 But that could be with the new home of the Cincinnati Bengals being built, insert wherever. So there are options, this is plural. But if you have to pick up that first one, you have to start thinking about the future in a much more serious way and almost forget that, yeah, you'd love to stay downtown. Because it just takes so much time, effort, energy, and money and resources to get everything aligned just to stay where they are. Imagine if they're going to a different county and they're still going after state funds that are going to be out there, that who knows, maybe they're competing with the Browns

Starting point is 00:17:04 with because those are in the state. And so how does that work? How is that going to be dispersed? Like I think that there's a lot of questions that still need to be answered from a state perspective. But yeah, I think it's very real. And you talk to people that are close to it and on both sides. And it's one of those things that are like, yeah, we truly don't know. And so hopefully they could come together and get something done. I like the Bengals playing downtown. I think it would be great for them to stay there. I also think that in today's NFL, these things pick up quickly, change quickly, evolve quickly. And the Bengals are going to have to do that, by the way. We talk about how slow they are reacting to other things and trends and free agency

Starting point is 00:17:52 and all those things. We're going to talk about free agency in a minute. June 30th, be ready. I don't know who's in charge of that. Would it be Elizabeth? Would it be Caroline? Would it be all hands on deck? I don't know, but it's going, it would take a lot of effort and energy to say, all right, well, here's the land. Here's what we're going to do. Here are the rendering. And obviously, you hire outside firms and things like that, but there's just a lot that goes into that. Think about the time they put into the uniforms of the locker room where this is a trillion times the project of the locker room. And the locker room took them all offseason last year to get done and get ready to go for the start of the year.

Starting point is 00:18:32 I would say that their actions suggest that they want to stay in that stadium. Like, are you putting all of that into renovating the locker room, which to your point is a smaller project, but is a significant project nonetheless, are you putting all that in to take the steps they've taken for improvements in the stadium in the last few years if your plan isn't to stay there? And that lines up with everything they're saying too, but just like everything with the Bengals, at least it seems. and it goes back to the history with the county, it feels like it's going to be a very painful, dramatic negotiation. And what we've seen from the communications between Troy Blackburn and the county, hasn't been great, doesn't suggest a lot of amicability between the sides. And so it probably will continue to be hard work.

Starting point is 00:19:23 But it's hard for me, James, to imagine them getting to June 30th and not picking up the extension or having. a deal done. Like, it's hard for me to imagine it just expiring because then they have a year to find a new place to play. Like the lease expires in 2026. Sure. If they don't get the extension, I think that's, they would need the time, right? They would take the extension to buy themselves time. They're 100% picking up the extension. Yeah, 100%. And I agree with you. They're actually, that's what I let off with. Like, they clearly want to stay downtown. I think that's why it's by design. Like you get Joe Burrow, you go to a Super Bowl, you put money into the facility.

Starting point is 00:20:02 You know, like they have a lot of things in their favor when it comes to, hey, see, at the same time, the county got crushed last time. And they are very, I think, frustrated by that, even if it is different people in power. They're approaching it differently. So we'll see if they could find common ground. But yeah, I agree with you. And really what it is, I think if they did decide to move. it would be this one year, you'd pick up two, a two-year option. And then you'd probably have to pick up another one if you're building a whole new stadium.

Starting point is 00:20:34 Yeah. And so you're probably talking about five years from now. So what, 2030, 2013, is when we would actually see them move. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Hopefully we're not dealing with it. We are, however, going to have to deal with the Bengals approach to free agency. Let's finish up the show with how the wide receiver contracts affected things more than they should have for the Cincinnati Bengals, this free agency coming up next.

Starting point is 00:21:00 Jake, it was the offseason of more. We came into it wanting more. We wanted the Bengals to be really aggressive in free agency, plus keep the big three. And they've kept two-thirds of that with Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. But Katie Blackburn sharing that those deals, and it really felt like it at the start of free agency when they weren't doing much, but those deals certainly impacted what they added or didn't add to their team in free agency. Yeah, it's a subtle quote. And, you know, obviously we don't know exactly all the context here. But what was reported was that Katie Blackburn admitted that the receiver contracts,

Starting point is 00:21:38 the size of the receiver contracts did shift it. There's no question when referring to scaling back spending and free agency. That's Paul Dayner Jr. reporting with the athletic. And that is beyond frustrating for me to see James. And I think Paul talked about this on his podcast too. So if you want to hear more about the quote itself, you can check those things out. But the fact that the spending on the receivers or the cap impact from the receivers, impacted what the Bengals were willing to do in the rest of free agency,

Starting point is 00:22:15 impacted Trey Hendrickson's negotiation is just so asinine to me that it's the most frustrating, like much more so than the Trey Hendrickson stuff, where, yeah, you got to control your optics better than that, but it's very easy for me to see how that went the way it went and wasn't the intent of what Katie was saying, much like people I think are seeing, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time here, pro football talk reporting on Katie Blackburn's comments on the stadium

Starting point is 00:22:43 and Ben Baby tweeting about it, for example, like this is not really what she was saying and calling up the spirit. So I can see how that could happen with Trey, like it happened with the stadium comments and the way those were portrayed by PFT. But there's no real way around this. She said that the receiver contracts shifted the way they approached free agency for spending on other players.

Starting point is 00:23:08 And I think that's pretty inexcusable. That is reaffirmation of some of the cheapness narratives out there, some of the concerns that we've often heard that the Bengals don't really want to push it in to win. and it goes back to things like pro-rating money in these receiver contracts that could have freed up cap space or just being willing to spend a little bit more in a year. They didn't spend on that Jamar Chase extension last year, so they instead spend a bunch of that cash this year. They didn't spend on A.T. Higgins extension last year. It was a cheaper than that extension would have cost them from a cash perspective.

Starting point is 00:23:50 Franchise tag last year. This year, they're paying out that extension. Joe Burrough's cash outlays are going down. And so while Trade Hendrickson's extension, hypothetically, if it were to get done, would put them right around the number that I expect them to spend for cash this year. It's not done yet. And why can't you just spend a little bit more in cash for one year than you're used to spending in what is such a critical offseason?

Starting point is 00:24:18 That's what makes it so frustrating is this idea that they're ever going to treat something differently because they have an opportunity and take the extra step. It took a step in getting those receiver deals done, and that's great. I don't want to take away from that. Again, I don't want to take away from that. But they wouldn't take this extra step of being willing to spend a little bit more to solidify a starting guard. For example, before the draft that we've been talking about a lot this week,

Starting point is 00:24:49 is just beyond frustrating for me when I see that the receiver deals. shifted it and that was their financial limitation. Well, we did a whole show on the proration element of this where they could have freed up $11 plus million in cap space with money that has been given to Jamar and T. Bonus is issued in March and it's strictly from an accounting perspective, putting it here and not there and then it frees up more cap space this year. this and that go hand in hand.

Starting point is 00:25:26 And it's embarrassing. It's why that cheapness narrative is true to a degree. Not fully. Like, they'll tell you, hey, see, we spend, and they're going to be close to the cap, and all of those things work. But we know better. And that's the difference.

Starting point is 00:25:46 They always seem to stop short. Maybe they nail the draft. And they had two stud pass rushers, and they make Trey play it out, and they add a stud guard, and it all works out. But my God, it would be easier if you already had a starting guard for it to all work out. It would be easier if you added a defensive playmaker that wasn't on the team last year, or wasn't a nose tackle, which every single NFL team should have a nose tackle that can play nose tackle on their roster anyway.

Starting point is 00:26:17 The Bengals didn't last year. Like, what they've added and what they've added, and what they've, done like fine or really good when it comes to keeping tea and Jammar but that was never going to be enough to and it's it's just a different standard it's different levels like they could nail the draft and I at some point this season there's going to be an injury and we're going to be like man see they should have done this or they should have done that in taking that extra step is the difference. It's it's what makes the special franchises special. It's what makes Joe Burroughs special or Jamar special because they do the extra thing when no one's paying attention. That's why they're so

Starting point is 00:27:04 great. Like there are three people on the planet that can do what Joe can do, if that. There's probably no one on the planet that can do what Jamar can do on the on the on the earth. Yeah, it's a lot of God-given ability, right? That's part of it. Natural ability. The other part of it is they take that extra step. The Bengals don't. That's why people call them cheap. That's why there's the national narratives. That's why during the Trey Hendrickson stuff, they're going to get ripped.

Starting point is 00:27:33 Like, if you want to change that, then take the extra step and do it consistently. And they don't. And that's what Katie confirmed to me. We'll say this in their defense, which is not something I was planning to do when we started this segment, is that the Bengals are currently, according to over the calf, sixth in the NFL in active cash spending in 2025. That well can change. But there's a lot of money, obviously,

Starting point is 00:28:03 that they're paying to Jamar and to T this year. And it was a poor top of the top of the free agent class. And so it's not like a bunch of teams outside really the Patriots. It's splurge like crazy on these external guys. So that's part of it. And it's not that they don't spend. That's not what I'm saying. But you can spend and still be cheap to a degree

Starting point is 00:28:31 where you're not taking that extra step. And it's really hard to win consistently if you're not taking that step. Yeah. And an opportunity to do that this year is why it's a little bit frustrating this year. That's all. It was a question that we asked, if not now, when? in terms of a year to push a little bit more in.

Starting point is 00:28:52 And they are spending, $280 million in cash spending. And the top team in the NFL is the Vikings at $323 million in cash spending in 2025, according to over the cap. So that's not even that big of a gap. The bill is second at 312, the chief's third at 297. When you hear that the bills and chiefs are second and third, that doesn't feel great. when you're thinking about the teams

Starting point is 00:29:18 you have to compete with in the AFC. And then you can see the Ravens in this list just for comparison sake, at 240. So the Ravens not spending money this year dealing with some of those cap extending shenanigans from past years.

Starting point is 00:29:37 The Eagles at 276 spending less cash than the Bengals this year. So it's not fair to say that the Bengals aren't spending to be abundantly clear, but the, the criticism is just you don't have a starting guard and you could for for the cost of one year of spending a little bit more than than you perhaps want to and that would be such a difference

Starting point is 00:29:57 going into the draft and going into 2025 and you didn't add anything to your defense you added a nose tackle which is the standard i like t j slayton by the way it has nothing to do with him or erin burricks who replaces akim navus gaiter but like you brought back the guys and and you're really saying how golden's going to just maximize okay it sounds good it would be nice if out golden can maximize those guys and you actually add it to your defense outside of the draft i think that's it's a fair expectation and i also think that the eagles would have done that like if the rosters were completely switched i think we're talking about different a different thing here right in the eagles um and by the way They don't, the Bengals don't need to be the Eagles from a business standpoint.

Starting point is 00:30:46 But they, when they cut Alex Kappa, you just assume that they would get a guard in the first couple days of free agency. But the wide receiver deal shifted things, James, and that's what's frustrating. It's dumb. And it's, it lingers over everything because guard has, even more so than the defense, guard has plagued this team. And we'll see if they could solve it in the draft, which is something, by the way, The other day I said Clint Bowling. Obviously, Kevin Zitler was drafted a year later. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:31:19 Clint Bowling feels more recent. Well, he got an extension than Kevin Zitler. And I think that's it, is he stayed around. Yeah. But yeah, 2011 and 2012. It's a good point on the extension. That's probably why. Yeah, he was around after Zitler.

Starting point is 00:31:33 Clint, you want to suit up? I like Clint bowling. Good player. There's a little bit more than T. That we will get to in the near few. future here, Ari Myrov with the tweet, as we were recording this podcast on Thursday about the way that communication has been happening between the Bengals front office and Trey Hendrickson. We'll have to dive into that. And of course, we've got a mock draft Monday coming your way soon here on

Starting point is 00:31:57 lockdown Bengals as well. But until then, that's going to do it for this episode of the Locktown Bengals podcast. Until next time, thanks for listening. Ho-Day. And have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals' Stadium Future Hanging in the Balance With Deadline Looming

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