Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals Training Camp Scuffle After Shemar Stewart hits Joe Burrow | Protection issues derail the offense

Starting point is 00:00:00 Joe Burrow gets bumped on a day with protection issues, and we get our first training camp scuffle. Let's break it down. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked-on Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. I'm Jake Liskow.

Starting point is 00:00:32 He's James Rapine, and we've been covering your Cincinnati Bengals since 2016 here. on the Locked-on Bengals podcast. You can find us on YouTube or anywhere you get your podcast. Just hit that subscribe button to join all the everydayers out there, all the Bengals fans to make Locked-on Bengals part of their daily routine, especially those of you who make us your first listen. You can also check out if you're really interested, if you want to talk to James and I directly,

Starting point is 00:00:57 the Lockedong Bengals Insider Group at joinsubtext.com slash locked-on Bengals. James, today we dive into what led to the little scuffle The first, really, of this training camp, Joe Burrow taking a hit that was a little bit too hard. Don't want to hit Joe Burrow at all in these practices, and he was hit on Wednesday. On a day where there were protection issues in general, we'll get into what was at the root of those protection issues, and the rest of your practice notes, as we always have you covered here, as the Bengals are getting through training camp. But let's start with what led to that fight. And fight may be generous.

Starting point is 00:01:38 But Samar Stewart, a little bit out of control and a twist, ends up hitting Joe Burrow hard enough to lead to a bit of a reaction there. James, you were there in person. What were your thoughts as you watch this go down? Well, one, I was following the ball. So I didn't think there was a chance for Joe to get hit at all. really don't think that way, especially in camp. And so I followed Jamar. And then suddenly I look back and Shamar Stewart is on the ground and he's being helped up.

Starting point is 00:02:15 And so I'm like, all right, well, what's going on? And I go back and look, you obviously talk to other people that are also following the ball with the camera. But you figure out that, oh, Shamar not just hit Joe too hard, not Joe to the ground. and that's like a no-no for like the backup high school quarterback down the street right now that that's going through camp like the backup like even the backup backup usually doesn't really get touched much and so let's just go with the Bengals like if this happened to Jake Browning it still probably leads to something but for Joe to get hit that way it's going to lead to a fight and Lucas Patrick basically through

Starting point is 00:03:01 or put Shamar down. And Shamar was already like near the ground. It's not like he was on balance. You can watch the video I posted it on social. It's everywhere. But Shamar is clearly off balance as Joe's throwing it. He's stumbling a bit. It wasn't intentional.

Starting point is 00:03:19 He didn't go into this play. Like, oh, I'm going to sack Joe Burrow. He knows better than that. Like I said, and that's why I mentioned the high school element of this. He's very aware of who Joe Burrow is not to touch the quarterback. But he did and knocked him to the ground. And it wasn't just a bump, wasn't a shove, wasn't a tap. It was enough to knock Joe Bro to the ground.

Starting point is 00:03:42 And Lucas Patrick took exception to that. And so that's why we get what we got, which honestly, the biggest part of the skirmish happened a few plays later. But there, that was kind of Lucas Patrick just kind of retaliating more so than it was an actual scrum. scrum there. But yeah, I would call it a fight because I do think that there were a few hands flying during different points of practice. You said that the biggest part of the skirmish, skirmish, skirmish, skirmish, skirmish happened a couple plays later. What happened a couple of plays later? I mean, same thing, right? Is Lucas Patrick and Shemar Stewart get into it? And it might have

Starting point is 00:04:24 even been after the second team had came back, came in and then gone out and the first team comes back. I think there's a chance that it was. And they still got into it. Lucas Patrick stayed in. Shamar came out and was talking to Jerry Montgomery on the sideline. But things get chippy. Things happen. And the reason why, and if you look really closely at the videos that are out there, I followed the ball. Demetrius Knight sees this happen. Joe get hit. And he like kind of puts his hands on his helmet like, oh, my God. Like, oh, no. No, right? And he's by Jamar Chase. And so that was like the initial reaction. And so then Lucas Patrick retaliates and it's more like breaking it up than it is multiple teammates coming to defend each other, breaking it up, making sure it doesn't escalate. And that's the good thing here is it didn't get, it didn't escalate to a point where they needed to call off practice or push practice, separate everyone and cancel this part of the team drill. Like they still got the steps and they still got the in. But yeah, it was certainly something, especially because it is involving Joe. It's not like

Starting point is 00:05:35 it was just Shamar and Lucas going at it. And so that is a major storyline. Yeah. And it was a hit that could have looked bad when you consider Demetrius Knight's reaction, the hands of the helmet. If you look and you've got the video on this, I think there are a couple different angles out there, but you've got a clear video of this as well that you tweeted. When you look at where, you look at where, Shamar probably hit Joe because no video actually has the hit itself. Probably the Bengals have video of it because they have the cameras that are focused on the trenches. So I'm sure the Bengals have this and they're talking to Shamar about it and everything. But Shamar is looping inside on a twist.

Starting point is 00:06:18 There's a stunt happening. Lucas Patrick doesn't pick it up. And if you listen to Ted Karas talk about things after practice, I thought his perspective was pretty good. Let's talk about that in a second here. But Shamar's trying to turn the corner. Like you said, he's off balance, trying to regain his balance. And he's aimed right at Joe's midsection, essentially. Like, he's rising.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Like, it looks like he might be tumbling into Joe's legs. I don't think that's what happened. It looks like he's kind of regaining his balance and his center of gravity is going up away from the earth. And Shamar's are straightening up a little bit. and probably hits Joe somewhere in the torso, mid-body, though. So it could have very well, like, bet Joe in half or something like that. I'm speculating here.

Starting point is 00:07:07 But I'm thinking about, you know, the reaction of Demetrius Knight hands the helmet and thinking like, oh, that didn't look good. Doesn't sound like it was serious. Like, like you said, they continue practice everything. But like Ted said, like, that's where the team's hopes and dreams are. You can't, you got to play more in control. when you're around the quarterback like that. And that's why Lucas Patrick,

Starting point is 00:07:29 and he's going to take a lot of criticism because he was awful on Wednesday, to be clear. But I'm on board. Throw Shamar, throw him out of the club. That's what I asked for it. Every, every day or heard me talk about it 52 times last season. I want edge. I want fight.

Starting point is 00:07:48 I want people to know and understand and opposing defenses to know and understand that nine is off limits. And people are going to come back and say, well, you better protect him during the play. Well, obviously, it goes without saying, but I damn sure don't want all these questionable hits on Joe Burr. And there were a ton of them last year. A lot of them went unflagged and not penalized.

Starting point is 00:08:05 And I was very critical of the offensive line again and again and again and again. So, yeah, Lucas Patrick saying, all right, well, let's let's teach the rookie. I'm fine with that. I also need Lucas Patrick to actually block, which we will get into. But I'm totally fine. with what happened today in the offensive line retaliating the way they did and honestly and it's because Lucas handled it I hope but I would want all the line I like Ted didn't see it he mentioned that like so you don't always see it as an offensive line one is many of these

Starting point is 00:08:42 guys to react to something like that because it just it can't happen even if it was unintentional I like Ted's perspective on this which was you can't let it happen we got to be better. And numerous offensive linemen said, we have to be better up front. That is what sunk the offense on a day the defense generally won. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But also appreciating like, yeah, we took care of it.

Starting point is 00:09:12 We took care of it. We handled it the right way. Practice didn't have to end. We were able to move on. We have to be better. So like I think Ted said all the right things. And still has that valuable leadershipy perspective as the Bengals Center. Yep. And the hopes and dreams line is the line that's going to stick with me.

Starting point is 00:09:32 Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Shamar Stewart's defensive rookie of the year. And it doesn't matter if Lucas Patrick is an awesome right guard. If Joe gets nicked up, Joe's dealing with an injury, there's, I don't need to worry about booking a flight to Santa Clara in February. It just, and neither do the Bengals. And Ted understands that completely. And so there's plenty of practice takeaways. It's going to start in the trenches. It's probably going to start with Lucas Patrick. He did talk to the media as well.

Starting point is 00:10:04 So we'll dive into that coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Yahoo Fantasy. Look, I'm going to play Yahoo Fantasy this year. And I planned on playing Yahoo Fantasy this year long before Yahoo Fantasy decided to be part of our podcast. Why? Well, because Yahoo Fantasy is awesome, whether you're a first timer or a a veteran making your millionth league. It's super easy to use.

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Starting point is 00:11:22 Fantasy.com slash locked on NFL. All right, Jake, let's let's dive into it to practice a little bit and kind of combine it with what was said in the locker room after because T.J. Slayton talked, Lucas Patrick talked, Ted Karras talked. It was a trench day and it was a trench day where the Bengals defense won. I mean, the highlight of the day for the offense was Joe's touchdown to T. Higgins and their lone touchdown in 11 on 11. during that scrimmage. And guess what? T.J. Slayton beat Lucas Patrick and probably sacks Joe Burrow or disrupts that pass or a little bit of both.

Starting point is 00:12:00 I asked T.J. about it and showed him the video after he was like, absolutely, I sack in there. So he certainly didn't have any doubt. But that was the storyline. Statistically, Joe Burroughs worst practice of training camp, I test-wise, it's because the trenches were just dominated by T.J. Slayton, Shamar Stewart and the rest of this Bengals defensive front. Yeah, Chris Jenkins getting on the action, Joseph Osai, getting in on the action. This is on a day that Orlando Brown Jr. wasn't practicing, and we'll get to the Who wasn't practicing notes later, but that means Cody Ford was playing left tackle for the Bengals,

Starting point is 00:12:37 Lucas Patrick at right guard. Those were the guys that were supposed to be competing for right guard coming into training camp. But all it takes is one injury on the offensive line and Cody Ford is your swing tackle, at least as of today. That's not Jaylon Rivers anymore. The first guy in off the bench is Orlando Brown didn't practice. Cody Ford. And so that's a very realistic offensive line configuration that you could have this year. It could be Cody Ford on the right side.

Starting point is 00:13:02 It could be Cody Ford on the left side. It could be Cody Ford at the other guard spot. Cody Ford is probably your first guy off the bench at multiple positions. And there's a very real world where Lucas Patrick and Cody Ford are on the field together. You go back to last year's game against Denver that I was looking at. not too long ago, about a week ago. And Joe Burrow has a lot of highlights in that game, but what stood out to me is that Devin Cochran is a right tackle in that game.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Cody Ford is the left guard in that game, and Alex Kappa is still playing for the Bengals of right guard in that game. Pretty similar sounding configuration to some of the sort of possibilities that are out there for the Bengals with a sustain an injury. And again, the Bengals aren't unique in this. This is pretty endemic across the league where offensive line depth is lacking. It is really hard to build good offensive. offensive line depth in the NFL, but all it took, this is optics to some degree.

Starting point is 00:13:57 Could just be that the defensive line had a particularly good day, but all it took for the offense to come to a grinding halt was Orlando Brown missing a practice. That's one way to frame this, right? You have Lucas Patrick getting beat up all day, numerous pressures out there that are clipped on social media for you to see where Lucas Patrick is at the center of it, whether There's Chris Jenkins on a stunt and Lucas Patrick trying to stay with him on the edge, being unable to do so. The Shamar Stewart hit.

Starting point is 00:14:26 Lucas Patrick getting beat inside. Cody Ford getting beat around the edge. You know, Lucas Patrick losing to T.J. Slayton, like you mentioned, too many clips like that today. Way too many clips like that today. And it's just at this point, I still have seen no real indication that the Bengals, and this could come out of nowhere, but no real indication that the Bengals are thinking hard about making an addition here, even though we've talked about Brandon Sheriff or we've

Starting point is 00:14:53 talked about Dalton Reisner, we talked about Will Hernandez before he signed for months, the Bengals don't seem to be interested. And so they better hope that these guys get it right in a hurry and get better in a hurry because right now what we're seeing is that there's a potential weak link on this offense that can sink them. And this is going against a defensive line that couldn't do anything against the Eagles twos on Thursday last week. And so you also have this conundrum that we've talked about a lot where it's like we're trying to watch a team that has protection issues against the team that has to be

Starting point is 00:15:28 able to rush a passer. And so there's that bit of confusion mixed in as well. Well, and it's not that confusing. I get what you're saying, but it's not. You know why? Because even if Shamar is disruptive, we know he's not an all-world pass rusher yet. We know T.J. Slayton is going to be more of a run stopper than he is. An actual pass rush. sure. You're hoping Joseph Osai takes a step. We'll see. But they're without Trey Hendrickson. It's not like they're doing this. And Trey Hendrickson is just commanding so much attention and all the, and the Bengals would probably say, oh, yeah, well, we were without Orlando. And it's like, yeah, you were without Orlando the past two years. He's missed time. And I love Orlando,

Starting point is 00:16:08 and I think he's really good. But you better, you better have something in place that you can feel confident in and Amarius's miss time. He's playing with his right hand still really wrapped. I mean, it's a real rap on there the past two days that we've seen. And I was having this conversation during practice. And it was oddly enough before T.J. Slate and beat Lucas Patrick and Lucas proceeded to have his worst session of camp, I would say. But it's just like, what in the, how were you thinking, Bengals? Like, I always go like, and it's not. hindsight like i went i went i went i went all the way back to like kevin zitler signed a one-year deal in nashville and has no chance of even winning a division title sorry maybe maybe he thinks he

Starting point is 00:16:51 does but he's not going to win much down there this year and whether it was sheriff or not whether it was this guy or not tate ratledge was sitting there in round two and you went with the lineback like what's more important like let's say demetrius knight is awesome and maybe he is and he's had a really good camp let's say he's defensive rookie of the year and tate ratledge is a the next Clint bowling. Which one's more valuable? You could argue the next Clint bowling would be more valuable because it keeps up, keeps nine upright and it keeps your Super Bowl chances upright. And so that's what's tough is every step of the way they've told us, oh, well, we're going to be fine. We're going to figure this out. We're going to be fine. We're going to figure this out. And now the season

Starting point is 00:17:34 is under four weeks away. And we're like, okay, well, are you going to figure this out? Because we just watch this defensive front that doesn't have Trey Hendrickson completely derail practice, so much so that Joe Burrow, I think, completed under 50% of his passes after that touchdown throw to T. Higgins, where again, he would have been sacked in Team Drew. So a couple different team sessions. Like, that's, that's rough. And so that is, it's really concerning with, with how bad they were today. And Ted said they have to get better. Fine, they have to get better. but do they have enough talent? I think that's a real

Starting point is 00:18:11 a real issue and fair assessment even if they don't realize it internally. And they're dudes on the interiors that they have to get through in the AFC. I mean, it's not like this is like... So many dudes in the division, week one.

Starting point is 00:18:30 It just doesn't really... The way they approach guard continues to be nonsensical. year after year we say this nothing new here but good day for the defense so you credit those guys for getting the wins they got in the trenches you credit osai you credit jenkins you credit shamar you credit t jay slayton those guys certainly standing out you notice howard cross in there with the ones on a couple of reps so maybe howard cross has passed up tavin brian maybe he's getting a shot there that's interesting as well while we're on the topic of the trenches we'll see how that

Starting point is 00:19:06 rotation looks on Monday night, but this team is built around Joe Burrow in the passing game. And so while it's good for the defense that they're getting these wins, it's hard to come away from it and think like overall good thing for the Bengals because of the issues they're having related to the foundation of their success. What do you think Mason Graham and Miles Garrett are going to do week one? they're going to apparently was was was was struggling in his don't care don't care what do you think he's going to do to Lucas what do you think you would trade every would you trade

Starting point is 00:19:47 chamois do it for Lucas or for Mason Graham right now like he was considered an awesome prospect you know maybe Cleveland knows not to use them but fine we'll just say Miles Garrett Miles Garrett is going to be standing over Lucas Patrick all game law and you just don't want nine to come and into or go into that Cleveland game and come out of it, even if you win and we're talking about how much he got hit. And that's my fear today. That's what I thought today on August 13th watching it.

Starting point is 00:20:14 So I'm like, man, if this is what's happening here now, imagine what happens when Miles Garrett knows you're dropping back 40 times in Cleveland. We have plenty of practice takeaways to get to notes on Demetrius Knight, Marco Wilson, Cam Taylor, Britt, and much, much more coming up next. Most people can't name all of their financial accounts. they don't even know their net worth, whether it's 401Ks, properties, investments, and when you don't have the full picture, you can end up leaving money on the table. And that's why Monarch Money is here to help you. It's an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together

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Starting point is 00:21:29 Just to wrap up the protection topic before we get to the rest of practice notes. Yeah. Just they were able to be a productive offense last year with Joe Burrow taking a lot of hits. Yeah. But I'm so sick of saying, yeah, Joe Burrow and these receivers, Joe Burrow on this passing game, still producing despite pressure. Joe Burrow really good under pressure. Like, I just, it's a lot more fun to watch Joe operate from a clean pocket.

Starting point is 00:22:01 it's a lot more efficient for the offense, for any quarterback in the NFL to operate from a clean pocket. So despite the fact that we know he can overcome it, that we know he can make plays, it only takes one hit, as we've seen a couple of times in Joe Burroughs career. And so minimizing hits, this isn't saying anything that's not obvious.

Starting point is 00:22:23 Seems like it should be a priority and seems to be something the Bengals continue to approach in a way, like I said, that just doesn't really make sense. That being said, James, let's talk about the rest of this practice. Yeah, and we can. It's just, it's the same old song and dance. And they've had their opportunities in free agency. And then they had their opportunities in the draft.

Starting point is 00:22:51 And this is what they have. So we'll see. We'll see what happens there. But yeah, the rest of practice, there was some non-defend, offensive line highlights for the defense. Demetrius Knight was able to sniff out a screen to Chase Brown and would have blown that up. And Chase Brown continues to be a big part of what the Bengals are doing, both on the ground and in the passing game. Marco Wilson had a nice play against Jamar Chase and noticed 24 a couple of times. He was also guarding T. Higgins really tight on the sideline

Starting point is 00:23:20 and really didn't give Joe Burrow anywhere to throw it. And this was one of the many incompletions after that first touchdown driving. I say touchdown driving quotes. Cam Taylor Britt had a nice pass breakup as well on the sideline against Jamar Chase on the far sideline. So this defense, the secondary, also made some plays. Also worth noting didn't see DJ Turner and team drills. And we saw Daxel in the nickel with Cam Taylor Britt and Josh Newton lining up on the outside.

Starting point is 00:23:52 Yeah, it's a good time to get to the other injury note. So we mentioned Orlando Brown didn't practice camp sample still didn't practice. James, you have your list of Jermaine Burton still not back in practice. Do you have your list of non-participants, the guys that weren't practicing or on the rehab field? Yeah. Yeah, Cedric Johnson is another one. Was there another one that might be? Oh, Mike is sicky, obviously.

Starting point is 00:24:15 Sorry, it goes without saying. I don't know why I totally forgot that one. So, yeah, there were a bunch of guys that. that we were expecting to not practice that that weren't practicing. Not really concerned. I do wonder about Germain. Like, will he be there Monday? But guys like Mike Keseki, you don't necessarily need to see Cedric Johnson.

Starting point is 00:24:36 It would be nice. I mean, they're getting pretty thin now, thin now with Miles Murphy, who was not on the rehab field. He was not anywhere on the field as well. So you mentioned he got nicked up at the end of yesterday's practice. It's really weird because I talked to him in the locker room. He seemed fine, but was not out there today. So maybe who's getting some doing some rehab work or getting some treatment during practice. Could have been one of those things where he, because he went back into that practice after he left yesterday, finished practice.

Starting point is 00:25:03 Could have been one of those things where it tightened up, whatever it was. I assume lower body something. And they're playing it safe with Murphy. Don't want to push any lower body tightness into lower body injury, soft tissue injury as this team is. And the NFL in general is aware happens at this time of year. So hopefully he is all right. They need to get reps for him as well. It's a valuable position to or valuable player,

Starting point is 00:25:30 valuable reps for Miles Murphy as Jamar Stewart will have more of an opportunity. But we'll see how they manage Samar Stewart's snaps as well with his potential load management as they try to get him ready for the regular season too. Yeah. He's been good. And I get it. He's going up against that. I think he's going to be a fun compliment to Trey.

Starting point is 00:26:00 And it will not shock me if he's starting. I'll just throw it out there. I really, I think he's pushing. He's as disruptive as any other, the linemen that have played for the Bengals so far in training camp. Other notes included, we talked a little bit before we started recording some involvement for Noah Fant again in this practice as the Bengals continue to bring him along, BJ Hill practicing again. So hopefully he's ramping up a little bit, getting ready to do the things he needs to do

Starting point is 00:26:33 to be ready for the regular season is not getting ready for, but doing the things he needs to do to be ready for the regular season. Anything else stand out to you today, James, as you were watching practice? No, I think that the other note in this one's important. And obviously, Trey's still out there patiently waiting for his deal. But BJ and T.J. I just think that they're not that Trey isn't going to lead that room, but those two guys really said it. And I think T.J. has helped with that why there were the skirmishes and why things were so physical and back and forth.

Starting point is 00:27:10 Like T.J was the first one to Shamar after he got up off the ground to chat with him for a second and keep things the way they were. And I thought he handled the locker room part of it really well, where I think he let the offensive line know, hey, we kicked your butt, but also didn't give the media anything. He said, oh, we just, we wanted to love each other. We wanted to love on each other with some big hugs. Like, I really like what TJ's brought on the field and then in the locker room as well and just seeing him, like, it's not just the young guys. Like, I saw him interact with BJ and just kind of razzing him a little bit.

Starting point is 00:27:46 and like I think he's going to be a big part of what they they do and in who they are as a unit and I do believe that's a good thing he's been a heck of an addition guys that I'm very interested to watch and we'll get there on Sunday show but just because you're talking about them now

Starting point is 00:28:04 makes me interested to see in this next preseason game which is still like five days six days you know it's Monday night it's way way in the future at this point but T.J. Slayton would like to see him play better than he did against the Eagles. Howard Cross, who continues to get reps early in practice.

Starting point is 00:28:23 If he's going to get reps early in practice and with earlier teams and go against Joe Burrow and the ones, I want to see him play better against other teams too because I was more impressed with Tave and Brian than I was with Howard Cross in that first game of the preseason. So those are some things just while we're on the topic of the trenches, while we're talking about those things, that I'm going to be watching because we've seen all the flashes. We've talked about it.

Starting point is 00:28:47 I saw it when I was in town, talked to a scout who was in town from another league about T.J. Slayton and we're impressed. We were both impressed with T.J. Slaten have a little bit more juice than expected for his role, his body type, the way you would expect him to play.

Starting point is 00:29:08 But I want to see that also translate to a game, right? And so those are some things that are showing up in practice. continue to show up in practice. Jamar Stewart also in this bucket that you would like to see translate when the Bengals play Washington next Monday. But we'll have plenty of time to get to what we're looking for in that game. It's been a lot of discourse about Joe Burrow this week as well

Starting point is 00:29:30 as various quarterback ranking lists came out. So between those topics, we'll have you covered here tomorrow on Lockdown Bengals. In addition to any other potential breaking news that may or may not happen, we always have you covered in case something like that. goes down. But until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hoodei and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Bengals Training Camp Scuffle After Shemar Stewart hits Joe Burrow | Protection issues derail the offense

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