Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow Restructure FUELS Contract Buzz | What’s Next for Bengals’ Offseason?

Starting point is 00:00:00 A day after the Cincinnati Bengals restructured, Joe Burroughs contract, what's next for the team with all that cap space they created? Let's break it down. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Well, up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake. Let's go covering your Cincinnati Bengals here on the Lockdown Bengals podcast for over seven years.

Starting point is 00:00:33 joined today by Mike Petralia at Trags. You know him as Trags. He covers the Bengals for CLNS Media over at CLNSSSSCi.com. He's got his own podcast, a jungle war podcast, that you can check out as well where he does a great job of covering the team. And I've always liked Mike's work

Starting point is 00:00:50 going back over the years. And he's with us again this week here on Lockdown Bengals to talk about the open OTA practice that was and the news it overtook open OTA practice this week. which was Joe Burrow restructuring his contract. And Joe Goberra and myself spent a lot of time discussing what we thought about that restructure on yesterday's show.

Starting point is 00:01:12 And we broke down what exactly the restructure means. And Mike, to me, it indicates that the Bengals were just very uncomfortable with their cap situation. They were very tight to the cap, especially by their standards. And to me, as I looked forward to the regular season where they have to be compliant to the 53-man cap rules, they were going to have to make a move, whether it was a cut, whether it was a restructure for Joe Burrow, which made the most sense, or maybe even Jamar Chase, it looked to me that they were going to need to free up some money. They end up doing so yesterday with Joe Burrow and restructure $10 million of new cap space this year at the expense of $2.5 million of cap space over the next four years. And it looks like they're doing it to feel like they can get back to standard operating procedure. What's your read on the Bengals' intentions after the Joe Burrow restructure?

Starting point is 00:02:04 Bottom line, Jake, I think this is more about bookkeeping than anything else. I think your point is spot on about if they don't make this move, they probably would have had to consider making a cap casualty cut, cutting maybe a veteran. Somebody like a T.J. Slate and that name has been thrown out there. But now it gives them the flexibility to keep a player like that for death. So many times we hear the coaching staff talk about injuries are going to happen. The real question and the real contenders are able to plug in pieces in terms of depth and not miss a beat. And that's what I think this is really all about.

Starting point is 00:02:45 And it's one of the reasons I think Bengel fans should be very encouraged by what the Bengals did on Tuesday. They are all in. They're all in with their pieces. They believe that if we're going to really try and fight for a. Super Bowl, we're going to need superior depth. Those are the types of teams that make it to the Super Bowl and win the Super Bowl, you have depth pieces. When you just play to the cap and strictly pay to the cap, you're not taking into account the depth that you might need along the course of a long NFL season. So that's, to me, really what it is all about the bookkeeping, but the bookkeeping

Starting point is 00:03:26 that you put in place to allow for flexibility. And a lot of this is going back and making sure that your house is in order to start the season so that you don't have to scramble throughout the course of the all season summer into training camp. So to me, that's what it really boils down to with the Bengals and the $10 million that would save. I'll point out one other thing that I think Bengal fans should take note of. And that is they didn't use the entire $19.2 million, I believe it is, cap flexibility that they could have with the Joe Burrow restructure. They only took $10 million. And when you factor into account that the Bengals and every other NFL team will have 6.5 to 7.5% of cap growth annually.

Starting point is 00:04:24 when you factor that in, yes, they're kicking the can down a little bit down the road, which they never do. That is well documented in the Bengals' annals of their recent Operation modus operandi. But the fact that they are willing to do it this time around shows that they are willing to kind of play it to the middle, not go all in and gamble away all of their cap space in the future. but the fact that they played it pretty much, I think, in the sweet spot, $10 million when the maximum cap savings could have been 19.2. I think it's a good medium for the Bengals.

Starting point is 00:05:04 For the Bengals, I think I can take that. This is what we've been asking them to do for a very long time. And every time this comes up, the line that I've gone to quite frequently on this podcast is I'm not asking them to be the Eagles. I'm not asking them to max restructure every big veteran contract on the team, the way the Eagles do, the way the Browns do, to kick the can as far down the road as possible. But I am asking them to take small measures like this instead of cutting players. And the difference in cutting a player versus restructuring borough is, yeah, they're giving up a little bit of future cap flexibility.

Starting point is 00:05:40 But it's so minuscule when you compare the two and a half million dollars per year of a cap increase over the next four years to the expected cap increases that are coming. and as a benefit, you don't have to cut a player. The Bengals were in the top part of the league in cash spending this year. They've dropped toward the middle part of the league with cash spending with all of the teams with multiple first round picks, jumping them a little bit and first round expensive rookies with the Bengals not having a first round pick and instead spending that money at extra Lawrence,

Starting point is 00:06:11 jumping ahead of them as those first round picks have signed their contracts. But by restructuring instead of cutting, this is the Bengals increasing their cash spend this year without preserving cap space to do so. In the past, I think the Bengals would reduce their cash expenses in their interests in pursuing their cap flexibility. So we've seen them do this in the past, I think. And that goes back to the T.J. Slayton conversation. And he is the guy that I think a lot of people would have circled and said, well, if they need a cap casualty, T.J. Slayton could make sense. Do you think that's still on the table for the Bengals at this point?

Starting point is 00:06:49 Or do you think that T.J. Slayton and the depth that he provides, quality nose tackle depth with Dexter Lawrence, obviously anchoring that unit, is something that Bengals fans and the Bengals coaching staff should be relying on for this year at this point. I think the latter is the case. I think the Bengals want to keep him on the roster, not only for depth. I mentioned the injuries before Jake. There's also the aspect that has been talked about a lot by Al Gold. and by Zach Taylor, head coach, for the upcoming season,

Starting point is 00:07:20 and that is to throw wave and wave and wave at the opposition. Well, you can't do that. You can't really pursue that strategy, at least with capable NFL defensive line bodies, without paying players to be there and be available. And this allows the Bengals to keep those extra defensive tackles on the roster to be able to do that. So we're not just talking about having a player in reserve if one or two defensive tackles go down.

Starting point is 00:07:51 It's being able to keep those players on the active game day roster so that they can use them so that Al Golden can keep his teams fresh in, let's say, September and October when it's hot out there, and the Bengals can be fresh at the end of the game. Being able to keep those players and pay those players as part of your active cap is part of this as well. and I think it's important for fans to remember that. Especially Dexter Lawrence, a player that has throughout his career played a ton of snaps, especially for a man who is 340 pounds,

Starting point is 00:08:24 having a player that you're reasonably confident in to rotate on a regular basis and keep Dexter Lawrence playing at his peak abilities and getting the maximum impact you can out of Lawrence makes a lot of sense to me as well. And to your point, Mike, it's not like T.J. Slighton's getting paid nothing this year. He's due $6 million in cash to go with a $9 million.

Starting point is 00:08:43 dollar cap it. So that's where the indication was that if they needed a cap casualty, you saved about $6.5 million if they were to have felt they needed to move on from Slayton. But at this point, they're keeping that value on the roster, keeping that money on the roster. And as you said, it's a quality veteran piece that in his role, I think, will be well suited to what he's being asked to do for the Bengals this year. I also want to talk a little bit about whether you think there is any interplay between this timing of the restructure occurring now and potential extension conversations that are going on potentially with DJ Turner, potentially with other members of this team.

Starting point is 00:09:26 And talk a little bit about some of the safeties. We talked about Kyle Dugger with you last week. He was certainly out there this week. And he may be an under the radar player who could make a pretty big impact for this defense. We'll discuss those topics here as we keep the conversation going with Mike Petralia coming up next. This episode of lockdown bangles are sponsored by Indeed. Sometimes you've got workplace chaos.

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Starting point is 00:11:02 I don't necessarily think that that's the case, as we've discussed. I think this is them getting back to a place where they're comfortable and feel like they can kind of operate normally. And to me, operating normally could mean they decide. they need a Dalton riser type of player who's last year getting paid close to the veteran minimum or maybe up to a Noah Fant style deal last year in that low $2 million range. I think those things are potentially feasible, but the timing is a little bit curious. I thought this was coming at some point between the Dexter Lawrence trade and the regular season when I ran the cap math and figured out exactly where the Bengals would be in terms of needing

Starting point is 00:11:38 regular season cap space to account for practice squad cap hits, for example. But the fact that they do it now, do you think that that means anything? Or are we grasping at straws a little bit when we look at this move happening now rather than in a few months or in a month closer to the beginning of the regular season? I don't think anything happens by accident, Jake. I think there is a reason and an explanation for everything when it happens on an NFL calendar. That's just me. And I think the Bengals are a very calculating and logical.

Starting point is 00:12:12 type of front office led by Katie Blackburn. I don't think there's any argument or any opposition to that type of thinking with regard to the Bengals front office. I don't think you can make the jump from the Bengals clear up $10 million of cap space and they're going to go out and sign a linebacker and a third swing tackle for the offensive line. I think those are two mutual. I think those are two mutually exclusive areas, and that's just my sense on it. I did find it interesting, although I was told it's not directly related, that not five minutes after the story broke that the Bengals extension or the Bengals restructuring of Joe Burrow was completed, that they signed their final 2026 draft pick in Cassius Howell.

Starting point is 00:13:05 I thought that was pretty interesting. And maybe it did have to do with a little bit of the budget. Regulatory gymnastics that go on in an NFL front office. But I found it interesting there. But in general, I think what the Bengals did on Tuesday was to make sure their house was in order going into the summer months and to make sure that everything they had done to that point, namely the Dexter Lawrence deal, the $28 million extension for 2028, that all of their numbers up to this point makes sense and are within the cap space budget that they have lined up for this year.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Do you think that the Bengals continue to surprise us by getting extensions done before training camp with the guy like DJ Turner? Do you think if you were handicapping it today and now knowing that they clearly have the cap space to do whatever they really want as far as extensions, because those don't generally have massive cap implications on the current year, those are more for few. future years. How are you expecting extensions to potentially play out here over the next couple of months for this team? Number one, I would expect the DJ Turner extension to get done by mid-training camp. And perhaps before training camp begins, that would be optimistic. But stranger things have happened. A lot, a lot stranger things have happened in the last month or two. That's for sure. Yes, exactly.

Starting point is 00:14:41 So I think just based on the fact that DJ Turner reported to these voluntary OTAs when he didn't have to, when certainly his name is in the pool for getting a contract extent, it's at the top of the list. It's not just in the pool of candidates. He is at the top of the list of guys that they want to extend. I'd say even probably a half a step, maybe even a full step above Dax Hill, who certainly is in that conversation. for getting an extension as well.

Starting point is 00:15:13 But I think they desperately want to get a guy like DJ Turner on board. They love his work ethic. They love what he's displayed in the last year, year and a half with the organization. They want to get that done. I think DJ Turner likes what he sees so far. He loves what he's seen in terms of other guys being veterans with Super Bowl cachet being brought in to help him play well on defense. I think that matters.

Starting point is 00:15:40 So I'd be very surprised at this point if the deal doesn't get done with DJ Turner by the end of training camp. I'm just curious to see if it happens before training camp because somehow this year, after the last few years, the bizarro Bengals out there doing everything that they haven't done before, whether it's trading for Dexter Lawrence, restructuring for restructuring Joe Burroughs contract, things they've literally never done in their franchise's history. And the other thing that's been different so far, year and has been very noticeable is the general lack of drama and distraction that I think he talked about last week.

Starting point is 00:16:16 Right. So in that vein of bizarreo Bengals doing things differently, well, maybe they just get the extension, the big extension for Turner anyway, done before training camp. So it is not hanging over DJ Turner's head for weeks or months. I mean, go back a couple of years to Joe Burroughs' contract extension, it goes into week one. And obviously it's a little bit different when you're talking about Joe Burrow and that kind contract that the Bengals did that again, unprecedented for them in many ways.

Starting point is 00:16:45 And you're talking about DJ Turner. Just a little bit of a different size of that contract, you know, maybe half the size, give or take. So not quite as high stakes, but it would be interesting if that is something that gets done sooner than later. And we'll see how that plays out, I guess, as time goes. But the timing of the restructure just made me think,

Starting point is 00:17:08 well, maybe they need that cap speak. sooner than later. Maybe they do plan on getting these extensions done in the next couple of weeks before everybody departs for their little vacation before training camp, or maybe not. Maybe this is just when the Bengals happened to be doing their contract business as they also got Cassius House deal done, as you pointed out. So, Jake, one thing I want to point out, sometimes teams like the Bengals like to have their house in order before they go out and undertake another male. of project. It's like if you want, if you are looking to go out and buy a new car, or if you're

Starting point is 00:17:48 looking to go out and get a second home or a vacation home, you want to make sure that your credit rating and your credit score is good. You want to make sure that you have enough cash on hand in the bank before you go out and commit to something new. That's what this is akin to to me with the restructure of the Joe Burrow contract. It's to take care of the past, i.e. Dexter Lawrence and the money they took on there, to make sure their entire balance sheet was where they wanted it to be. Before they go forward with the other projects like a DJ Turner extension, maybe a Dax Hill extension, maybe they go out and consider Bobby Wagner,

Starting point is 00:18:32 whoever else on defense linebacker or, as we said, before a swing tackle. To me, that's what the restructure is about. It's tying together the loose pieces in the past before you go and move forward with the 2026 season. Speaking of going forward with the 2026 season, the culture on this defensive side of the football really seems to be resetting itself this year. And it's a little bit reminiscent of year two under Lou Aniruma where there was some discontent in year one. There's some bumps in year one for Al Golden, certainly. In year two, there are some new safeties in the building, Kyle Dugger and Brian Cook. And Cook certainly making his presence felt, Dexter Lawrence,

Starting point is 00:19:15 certainly making his presence felt as far as leadership goes on the defensive side of the ball. DJ Turner, obviously growing into a leadership role as well over the last year. So we're going to talk a little bit about that culture on that defensive side of the ball resetting. Kyle Dugger is out there. We've got a glimpse at how he's going to be used. working with both the first and second teams and perhaps indicative of a first and second team role for Kyle Dugger in the regular season as well. We're going to talk Kyle Dugger, defensive culture,

Starting point is 00:19:47 and other standout notes from OTA week two to finish the show coming up next. I really want to get to Kyle Dugger here, Trags, as I shout out the everydayers, if you're an everyday listener of the Locktime Bengals podcast and you're looking to get an ad-free version of this podcast, check out LockdownBengleshot Supercast.com. you'll get a free trial right now again, locked on Bengals.

Starting point is 00:20:13 com, link in the show notes as well if you want to check out the everydayer club. Trags, let's talk, Kyle Dugger. I've been very intrigued with this signing since it went down. This is a kind of veteran savvy move that I really like to see the Bengals make. And this one doesn't come at the last minute, the way that we were talking about Dalton Riser last year. If they had signed Dalton Riser, as soon as we started talking about Dalton Riser last year, and he would have had potentially a more significant role.

Starting point is 00:20:43 This is a similar move to me in that he can fill multiple roles on this defense. He could play a little bit of linebacker for you if you go back to his days early in New England and be a smaller linebacker, a big nickel kind of player in the box, a big dime kind of player in the box potentially, but also does still have a lot of experience and versatility. How are the Bengals using Kyle Dugger, as far as you could tell when you saw him out there in seven-on-sevons and some of the competitive work on Tuesday. Well, it's really hard for me to judge, especially in seven-on-sevons. And he was working very closely with Safety's coach Jordan Kovac.

Starting point is 00:21:21 She told me after practice that's probably been his number one asset in his first weeks here with the Cincinnati Bengals as getting to know the system. As I said earlier, he's familiar with the Bengals defense. There's one of the reasons that I think he decided to sign with the Bengals. I know Dan Horde asked the Bengals play-by-play voice asked him, point-blank, why was Cincinnati the place for you to sign? And he said, it's a young defense, but it's also a defense I'm familiar with. But there are intricacies of that defense details that he needs to really hammer down before he gets on the field and feels comfortable, playing loosely, playing freely. To your point, how they're going to use them, I use him.

Starting point is 00:22:11 I think he's going to be a down on the safety, down near the box type of safety. He has a great reputation for tackling. Obviously, having been used as kind of a hybrid linebacker type, that shouldn't surprise you his ability to tackle playing that close to the box or in the box. They like him to be able to maybe compliment what Jordan Battle does. because Jordan Battle, when he's playing good football, is down in the box, he's close on his defender,

Starting point is 00:22:43 and he's bringing guys to the ground. He had a trouble last year, obviously tackling, but why is that, Jake? It was because he got the receivers and running backs got separation on Jordan Battle. When you ask Jordan Battle to play in space, he did not look comfortable at all last year. But Kyle Dugger is somebody who can play.

Starting point is 00:23:05 in space, I think a little bit more, play lower in the box, and give the Bengals a little bit more of a hybrid at the safety role. That's why, and I know Jeff Hobson at Bengals.com, had an interesting article about this. I think he's one of the more underrated signings and defensive additions of this offseason if he can fit in, if he can rediscover what he, why the Patriots signed him to that, I think it was $50 or $45 million contract extension, went earlier in his career. If he can rediscover that form, I think he can be a valuable piece of this secondary going forward. And what I keep speculating on with that piece in mind is the reason he earned that money is

Starting point is 00:23:55 because of his play as kind of a hybrid player. And then the Patriot shifted his role. And he started playing a much more classic safety position where he's playing a split safety a lot. He's playing deep a lot. Before that, he's playing a lot of box knaps. He's playing a lot of linebacker role, that hybrid role that we see all across the NFL now that we've talked about the Bengals not having or potentially looking to acquire if they were interested in that mold of a player in the draft at some point or in free agency. And the Bengals certainly see it around the league. Everybody saw the impact that Nick

Starting point is 00:24:25 Eman Worry made for the Seahawks in the playoffs. I think everybody has seen the impact. the players like Kyle Hamilton make on their respective defenses, a little bit of a different style of player, but certainly versatile at safety, Jalen Petrie with the Houston Texans and that awesome defense that the Bengals will face in week two, this kind of player was kind of, of this generation anyway, precipitated by Kyle Dugger in New England,

Starting point is 00:24:50 and then they changed his role. So that's why how the Bengals use him will be such an interesting trend to watch as practices continue throughout the offseason and in training camp, because if it is, to get him back into that more hybrid safety linebacker role, that's where I think he's best used and makes him more of like a sub-packaged player in many ways, but it's exciting for the prospects of them getting the most out of a player who could be a sneaky, like you said, sneaky strong, underrated add to this defense.

Starting point is 00:25:20 Well, one, and I want to correct something. I think I said 45, it was a four-year, $58 million contract extension. with the Patriots in April of 2024. Mind you, and I want to bring this point up as well, because it's something Dugger had to deal with. He was drafted in 2020 by Bill Belichick. He played toward the end of a team that was clearly in transition in Belichick's final years. He had the one year under Gerard Mayo.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Then last year, he was under Mike Rable at this point in time of the offseason before obviously being traded to the Steelers. He's been through a lot of transition. And I think it'll be interesting to see if things now settle into a role, if he feels like he's settling into a role where he's more comfortable and more ingrained in the system here with the Bengals. And the Bengals define his role in more definitive terms. If they can do that, I think Dugger can be a really valuable part of that secondary going forward. Because one thing I think we fall into the trap of is one or two or three players is all the Bengals need.

Starting point is 00:26:32 Well, no, I think if you're going to be a Super Bowl team, and we've seen this with the Eagles and the Seahawks the last two years, you need a lot of pieces, a lot of pieces. And you need to be able to depend on those pieces should two or three others go down to injury. And that's where I think the Bengals want to be at. They know that the pieces they brought in are playmakers. But I think they also believe through the draft, through some of the roster building that they have been able to do over the last couple of years in turning the roster over from the likes of Jermaine Pratt and Logan Wilson, they, I think, feel like they're younger and they have enough depth on the defense to be very competitive. Speaking of the defense and the culture that I wanted to get to, talking with Brian Cook and Jordan Battle as well,

Starting point is 00:27:25 a week later, a week after last week's OTA practice, and we've seen the discussions with various veterans that have been brought in. We've heard Joe Burrow talking about Brian Cook's leadership ability. How do you sense that culture coming along on the defense? Does it feel, because to me on the outside, it feels pretty transformed from last year with some of the veterans they brought in this year. The Dexter Lawrence trade sending a jolt through the locker room as well.

Starting point is 00:27:53 How do you think that's developed over the course of this part of the offseason program for Cincinnati being in that locker room? Two things. No impromptu news conferences and a lot of energy. And certainly Brian Cook had mentioned that on Tuesday. He said, you can feel the energy. You can tell guys are playing, communicating at a very high level and at a very loud level on the field. And I understand it's OTA practice. It's first, second week in June.

Starting point is 00:28:27 I understand all that. But you can tell, by the way, the players are running to each other after they make a play and screaming, that's what we want. That's what we want to see. That's how we play it. And if you start instilling that now and that carries. over into mini camp, mandatory minicamp next week and in the training camp at the end of July, I think that stuff matters. I really do, Jake. And I think that's what the culture is all about. It's about building that feeling that not only are we playing with energy, but we know what we're

Starting point is 00:29:02 doing when we play with the energy. And I think the veterans have helped certainly with that. There's no question. Brian Cook and Dexter Lawrence are a big part of that. But I think there's also a new found jolt that the younger players have received. Don't underestimate the impact DJ Turner has in that secondary. He has turned from a cornerback with terrific raw skills into a corner who kind of leads that group. And that's saying something with a guy like Dax Hill right next to him, you know, a fellow Michigander and fellow Wolverine. I just get the sense that this defense is more together and less distracted. The Hendrickson-Shemar-Stewart thing last year was a big, big, big deal. It was a big

Starting point is 00:29:56 negative that they had to, it was a minefield that the Bengals had to navigate in the off-season. You don't have that this year. Instead, all of the focus has been on the positive. And yes, some of it's rose-colored glasses and maybe overly optimistic at this time of year. But that certainly beats the alternative to last year. You can find Mike Petralia's work at clynestin.com, the podcast, Jungle Roar Pod. Mike, as last week, and as always, appreciate the time and the insights as you're on the ground down in Cincinnati at Bengals OTAs. And we'll continue to have you covered next week.

Starting point is 00:30:36 we got minicamp right around their corner. And one guy that we've tried to put on the docket for a conversation for the last two weeks we haven't gotten to, Charlie Jones, a player that will be watching as well to see where his role lands on this team next week at minicamp and when we get to training camp. Thanks for joining me today, Trags. We're going to call it there for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. And until next time, thanks for listening, Ho day. and have a good.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Burrow Restructure FUELS Contract Buzz | What’s Next for Bengals’ Offseason?

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