Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Can the Cincinnati Bengals sweep the Cleveland Browns for the first time under Zac Taylor?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals obviously need some help to accomplish any of their goals this season. And as far-fetched as that may be, it all starts with sweeping Cleveland for the first time since 2017. Let's get into it. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked-on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskow. your host, James Rupin. We are

Starting point is 00:00:37 Locked-on Bengals on the Locked-on podcast that we're covering your team every day. Welcome back to the everydayers. Welcome back to those of you who make us your first listen every day. And if you're new to this show, you can subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode of Locked-on Bengals.

Starting point is 00:00:53 While we're entertaining the vague and narrow path to the playoffs that the Bengals have and looking for those meaningful football games in December, there's plenty of other things. things we'll have to cover throughout the rest of this season as well. This week we've talked about, for example, Luana Rumo's path to potentially retaining his job. Does that even exist? That was a big

Starting point is 00:01:17 focus of one of our shows this week if you've missed that one. But James, today we dive into the Bengals Browns game. And this is a team that the Bengals, and the not too distant past had a seven-game win streak against from 2014 to 2017. And since then, they've won four games against the Browns. And they've lost a whole lot more than that since 2018. And a lot of that, obviously, is the Zach Taylor era in Cincinnati. That was a big change in 2019 that led to, I guess, or is correlated with the Bengals suddenly no longer having success against the Cleveland Browns. Yeah, it's, that's part of it. I think the Browns roster has certainly improved,

Starting point is 00:02:08 whether it's Miles Garrett or Denzel Ward, you know, there's a correlation there too. And it's a tough matchup. And that's why, regardless of all of the stuff that has to happen around them, I think that this is an important game for the Bengals. Not that they were, not that the Browns were ever in their head,

Starting point is 00:02:27 because I never thought that. Like Joe Bro is two and five as a starter against the Browns. and that started to become a thing. But I don't really buy it. I never have because I think about his first road start in the NFL, COVID year, four days after making his NFL debut, and he goes there and he completes 37 passes, throw 61 attempts, you know, 316 yards, three touchdowns,

Starting point is 00:02:50 his first NFL touchdown pass. Like, he's played well against Cleveland, but this matchup in general has been tough. And so when you say it out loud, and you say, oh, well, Zach Taylor and Joel, bro, they've never swept Cleveland. And then you look at the other side of what Cleveland is this year. And they better sweep Cleveland.

Starting point is 00:03:10 My expectations are that period. And it shouldn't be one of these, oh, well, but they have this guy or that guy. No, it should be the Bengals offense finds a way to move the ball against this Brown's defense. And Luana Rumo and company find a way to slow down a Dorian Thompson-Robinson, led Browns offense. Will it happen? I'm not sure. But if it does,

Starting point is 00:03:38 then we're talking about Joe Burrow having one. It would be one to three of his last four starts against the Browns, which could probably end that narrative. So we'll see if they can get it done. This is also the worst

Starting point is 00:03:53 the Brown's record has been on December 22nd when the Bengals and Browns will be playing since Zach Taylor took over the Cincinnati Bengals. So Browns haven't had good teams, obviously, in a lot of those years. They had a team that finished 11 and 5 a few years ago. Last year, they obviously went to the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:04:14 This is the first year that they have less than six wins at this point in December. So when you're saying your expectations are that the Bengals go and beat the Browns at Paycor, they're at home when I say go. that I think is a part of it, right? This is a team that doesn't have the same pieces that those teams had in the past. There's still Miles Garrett over there. There's still Denzel Ward over there, but there's literally a third string quarterback. There's no Nick Chubb.

Starting point is 00:04:46 The offensive line is a shadow of what it used to be, and they lost Bill Callahan and part of that process. And so they still have some of these pieces. And the phantom of these teams that have the fans that have, been okay or have given the Bengals trouble in the past, but this year, the Browns are just bad. And their only wins were those home

Starting point is 00:05:08 games against Baltimore and Pittsburgh. So they do have those couple of division wins at home and against Jacksonville back in week two when they scored 18 points and managed to win the game. Can you imagine? Can't imagine that for the Bengals

Starting point is 00:05:25 this year. But the point I'm trying to make here is this has not a good football team this year and they're down to their third quarterback and without Nick Chub, without the running game that they've had in the past, with some of the injuries are dealing with. Yeah, the Bengals should and expectations should be that the Bengals are able to go take care of business on the football field. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:48 It's fair to expect. And it's one of those where it's like, and I know so many people are worried about draft position and like big picture stuff. And I get it. The Bengals aren't. They're trying to get a win. They're trying to win three straight for the first time this year. I mean, it's it's so crazy. You just put it together. Like, people have dismissed. And I get it. I do. You go on the road, you beat Dallas. Then you beat Will Levis and a gift gift wraps you. Merry Christmas, Cincinnati Bengals. A bunch of interceptions and fumbles the ball and is just giving your presence all over the field. But it's only the second time they've won back-to-back games all year, Jake. Like they've been so, they've struggled so much to close out games. And so I do think like for them, even in this scenario, it's like, all right, well, yeah, they feasted on bad quarterbacks or backup quarterbacks. They've had their way with teams with losing records.

Starting point is 00:06:47 Well, do it again against the team that you're right has had a bunch of stuff go, not go their way this year, I would say, or just have the wrong quarterback at times. I will say this. I'm curious to see how Dorian Thompson plays because on paper I would much rather face him if I'm the Bengals than James Winston. I think that the James Winston, yeah, he may throw three picks,

Starting point is 00:07:12 but he also may throw four tutties and get into a groove. And I don't like that given the Bengals secondary and defense this year. So I do think they got a break there, but maybe I'm wrong. There's still will be challenges in this game. Even with Dorian Thompson and Robinson or quarterback, there are still weapons on that Browns offense that the Bengals secondary that you mentioned, who's certainly had a share of issues this year, we'll have to contend with.

Starting point is 00:07:41 And it's still an NFL football team, right? This isn't, I don't think a team in the same atmosphere as the New York Giants. And as I say that, maybe the Brown's lost to the Giants this year. they did so yeah they're in the same realm of course i guess i guess i guess well i the current new york giants i think feel more incompetent to me than the cleveland brows like there's no miles garrett i know there there was dexter lawrence he's not there anymore there's no there's no like there's no one at quite that level you're oh no you're right that's what i'm saying this browns team with dorian thompson robinson i think is better than the giants from a talent perspective yeah

Starting point is 00:08:27 I'm not scared. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't want this first eight minutes of the show to be, we're sleeping on them. Because I'm not. I still, if anything, it's the other way. It's like, all right, Bengals, what you should, but should and will and ultimately doing it are much different things. Yeah. And when you look at some of the power rankings of the world, right?

Starting point is 00:08:52 Not that we put too much stock into power rankings. Wow. We haven't talked about power rankings all year. but there are some that are interesting that I've kept tabs on that like use try to use objective measures to stack the teams up and DVOA is an example of this. Just using Vegas odds to try to rank relative power is an example of this, things that try to take some of the subjectivity out of it. There's also like EPA based ones.

Starting point is 00:09:19 But anyway, like the Cleveland Browns are generally the bottom 16th in the NFL in these. The Bengals are still in the middle of the pack here. They're in different atmospheres, stratosphere, levels of the atmosphere, I guess, is what the saying would be when it comes to a lot of these objective measures of football success this year. And so that's what we're talking about when we talk about expectations. But like I said, and like you're alluding to, there are still individuals and situations that will have to be overcome for the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday. We can talk about some of those in a little bit more depth as we get into some of the matchups and things that matter in this game coming up next. Today's episode is sponsored by prize picks. If you love watching the game, you're going to love prize picks.

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Starting point is 00:11:05 bringing you all the hard-hitting and high-flying excitement that you love. TNT sports coverage of the college football playoff begins December 21st, starting with the college football playoff show presented by AT&T at 11 a.m. Eastern. That leads into our first matchup, the Southern Methodist University Mustangs, battling the Penn State Nittany Lions at noon. Then the Clemson Tigers look to upset the Texas Longhorns at a showdown at 4 p.m. Eastern. Don't miss a moment of action. Watch the college football playoff presented by Allstate Live on TNT, True TV, TBS, and Max. Jake, Miles Garrett still scares the hell out of me. That's where I would start as far as challenges go. Like that's, the path to the

Starting point is 00:11:54 Brown's winning probably includes 95 sacking Joe a couple of times, impacting plays, creating big plays, strip sacks. Maybe it's an interception. Maybe it's a tip pass that leads to an interception, disrupting Joe, getting him off his timing. That to me is where it starts and ends. And if you can get the ball out fast, find guys, create big plays without having Joe hold the ball and wait for guys to get open. I think that's such a huge factor here, especially given the Bengals issues offensive line-wise with the uncertainty of the guard position. Yeah, finding ways to take advantage of non-denzo Ward DBs in getting the ball out quickly occurs to me in this game. And if Jim Schwartz is playing a little recklessly with his defense and is playing really aggressive, knowing what's going on with the Bengals offensive line.

Starting point is 00:12:47 That's where I think we talk about the return to that screen game a little bit that we saw in Dallas. And the Schwartz defense is obviously different from the Zimmer defense, but there's a reason that I brought it up yesterday on the crossover. And when we recorded that with Spencer, the way the Bengals game planned and ran their offense against the Dallas Cowboys certainly took into account that, wow, major blank in the brain. Micah Parsons was on the other side of the field. Names.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Names, Jake. Look, man, my brain isn't working yet today. It's fine. Point is there was a Miles Garrett level rusher for the Dallas Cowboys, right? And the Bengals' offensive game planning reflected that understanding that, one, they needed to get help for that player whenever they could. And two, the ball had to be out quick. There were more screens. There was more play action.

Starting point is 00:13:41 And so when you're game planning around Miles Garrett, and the thing that we've talked about every week since that losing streak that ended against the Pittsburgh Steelers, or I guess the following week. The final game of the losing streak against Pittsburgh Steelers is the most important thing the rest of the season is getting Joe Burrow to the offseason healthy. He's still dealing with the knee. He acknowledged he's going to be dealing with the knee for a bit. He said he's still feeling good.

Starting point is 00:14:07 We saw the mobility was still at a good enough level that he's able to move. So he's not going to be a sitting duck back there or anything. but it's still there. And it's still the most important thing to me is keeping some of those hits off of Joe Burrow, if it's at all possible. And obviously that starts when you're looking at the Browns with Miles Garrett, but there's also Isaiah McGuire, a young player who has been putting together some consistent pressures for the Browns lately.

Starting point is 00:14:39 And it seems like there's always somebody else that steps up on the Cleveland defensive front, probably because the Bengals are giving so much attention to Miles Garrett, but whether that's Shelby Harris or whoever it's going to be this week, that's a big part of it. So finding ways to take advantage of the DBs that are struggling in Cleveland who are dealing with injuries or coming off concussions or haven't played much this year or aren't the starters, getting rid of the ball quickly, it will be a little surprising to me if that is not the plan on offense this week. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:11 Well, it is. Spoiler, right? I think that's for sure. the other element, and we actually haven't said this in a while, people always make fun of us when we do. And yet it is very true when it comes to this Cleveland game. If you think about that first matchup, Charlie Jones gives them seven points with the awesome return to start the game. Otherwise, it would have been one of those, the offense stinks again against this Cleveland Brown's defense. I get it.

Starting point is 00:15:37 They have some injuries in the secondary. But you better get out to a lead early. Like you don't want to look up and have the turnover on your first. drive and Dorian Thompson Robinson finds his way into the end zone like Will Levis did last week where he guides the Titans on a short field into the end zone thanks to Tony Pollard. And you look up and it's seven nothing. You just don't want to deal with that. At least I don't if I'm the Bengals.

Starting point is 00:16:00 And so starting fast against the young quarterback and not putting yourself in a seven point deficit or a three nothing deficit where you're just not doing anything on offense, you just you want to avoid that because it feels like that's always the case against Cleveland where you look up it's getting close to halftime and the Bengals haven't scored an offensive touchdown and that just that that is not what you want given that the pressure is on like if there's pressure on either team it will be on the Bengals because they need to win and need to win out and so the less pressure you put on yourself by getting off to a fast start I think that's going to help Joe of course but it'll help that defense as well.

Starting point is 00:16:41 you're talking about pressure, you put the Browns defense on their back foot a little bit, and you aren't not in a rhythm. The euphemism that we haven't heard from Zach Taylor in quite a while when he can't figure out what buttons to push, what levers to pull for the offense to get going against the defensive schemes that he's facing on a given day, if you get there against Jim Schwartz and Miles Garrett, then, you know, Cody Ford's in for a long day. and Joe Burroughs potentially in for a long day. But you have matchup advantages, whether it's Mike Gasecki,

Starting point is 00:17:18 whether it's T. Higgins, whether it's Jemar Chase, everywhere on that field with your weapons that isn't Denzel Ward's guy. And I feel like didn't they have a pretty good time against Denzel Ward in the first game anyway? Am I remembering that correctly? I am not remembering that correctly. Denzel Ward gave up one catch for two yards the first time. time these teams fight. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:42 Denzel Ward is good at football, Jake. Yeah. Well, no, I knew he was good, but I thought they actually, like, got one on him that week, but they didn't, clearly thinking of something else. But regardless, I think the point stands that they can find matchup advantages elsewhere on the field. The rest of that brown secondary is exploitable.

Starting point is 00:18:02 And it comes down to whether they can get those designs such that Joe can hit his back foot and get the ball out. So whether it's T. Higgins, Mike Gaseki, Andrei, Yosevosh, whoever winning, or Chase Brown as a receiver because he's really taken strides in that category this year in that department this year, finding ways to get Jamar Chase off of Denzel Ward, continuing to move him around, something the Bengals have done really well this year. That can make Joe Burroughs job easier. And we'll see if they can run the ball, too. I think that I don't want that to be an entire afterthought. We spent all this time talking about the passing offense and things they can do to mitigate the impact of the. the Cleveland Brown strength of that defense there,

Starting point is 00:18:44 there's a chance of Bengals are able to run the ball effectively this week as well, even though it might not be, you know, the 25 carries. It's probably closer to the 15 to 18 carries that we're used to seeing for Chase Brown unless the Bengals really run away with this one. But that keeping the Brown's defense guessing a little bit and on their heels a little bit and reacting a little bit and a lot of that based on how they start, pretty important this week with Miles Garrett on the other side. For sure.

Starting point is 00:19:11 No doubt. And you know what else is important? The defense, Lou, we're looking at you. We'll get into the Bengals defense coming up next. Time is our most precious commodity. So don't waste it scrolling through the same mind-numbing content for hours and hours. How can you spend it wisely to improve yourself? Our sponsor, Hillsdale College, is offering more than 40 free. That's right, free online courses, including Constitution 101, the meaning and history of the The rise and fall of the Roman Republic in the Great American Story, a land of hope, all of Hillsdale's courses are self-paced so you can start whenever, tune in wherever, plus you can go deeper with readings, quizzes, discussions, or just enjoy the lectures.

Starting point is 00:20:02 Go to Hillsdale.edu slash locked on to enroll. There's no cost and it's easy to get started. That's Hillsdale.edu slash locked on Hillsdale.edu slash locked on. The defense certainly is important, James, when we look at this matchup. The defense has, however, taking care of business against bad and or backup level quarterbacks this year, and they get one of those this week. But despite getting one of those this week, the Browns are likely getting Cedric Tillman back in wide receiver, and Jerry Judy is having a bit of a renaissance year. And David Injoku has always given the Bengals problems, or I guess at least since he became

Starting point is 00:20:38 a good NFL tight end, is given the Bengals problems. So despite matchups that you like, Trey Hendrickson versus potentially Jermaine Afetti at left tackle, for example, we've said that before and this defense has not shown up before. The Browns trying to find something to play for as we discussed with Spencer yesterday. But this is a game where the Bengals defense, I think, if it disappoints, will be particularly disappointing given their track record against. this level of quarterback this year.

Starting point is 00:21:13 Yeah. And it's pretty simple. It's like, all right, well, we know this defense isn't a good unit necessarily. But even last week, I had confidence. And early on I was like, oh, maybe I was just way off. But I had confidence that they could step up and force some turnovers and make plays. And we need to see that again this week. And whether it's McKinley Jackson, be nice if it was Miles Murphy.

Starting point is 00:21:41 would be nice if it, you know, if Chris Jenkins gets in there, you know, the young defensive lineman, I think it's a big week for Miles Murphy, given that Sam Hubbard is out. And obviously we could talk about the secondary all day long, whether it's Gino Stone and Cam Taylor Bridd, and the list goes on and on. You could get into the DJ Ivy,

Starting point is 00:22:00 like going up against the Brown's tight ends on third downs. Like, what we saw Josh Newton get his first interception in the NFL last week. So can these young guys continue to develop? Can the veterans like Cam and Gino and guys like that continue to have a late season surge? They should. It's reasonable to expect that, again, against an offense that has struggled. And yet the rounds still have some weapons. They do for sure.

Starting point is 00:22:27 I mean, Jerome Ford is a equality running back. They haven't been able to run block for anything in Cleveland. So I think that'll be interesting. Jerry Judy, who didn't get traded to the Jets because of his madden rating this offseason, and Woody Johnson, GM of the year for that. I never want to hear that we're not qualified to be. That's very real. I knew you hadn't seen that yet.

Starting point is 00:22:46 Diana Rossini reporting that. Like his mad rating was too low. But the point is Jerry Judy's been really good this year for the Browns, especially over the past month, month and a half. That's certainly changed since the Bengals first played Cleveland. And part of that is the Amari Cooper trade, him settling in, quarterback change. But Jerry Judy is a nice test. I think Elijah Moore is a quality receiver.

Starting point is 00:23:11 This secondary is going to be tested some. We don't know what DTR is going to be, Dorian Thompson, Robinson, a quarterback. But I do like some of the pieces on this offense. And so they're going to get tested. We'll see if they, I'll say this. I think that their skill guys are better than what you saw last week in Tennessee. It's kind of close, but I think they're better.

Starting point is 00:23:35 And so we'll see if that they can have a, similar output where they're forcing turnovers and creating chaos. I want chaos from this Bengals defense over the final three weeks. I mean, what are we talking about comparing them week over week? It's like Jerry, Judy, and Ridley. Calvin Ridley. And I give the slight edge to Judy. Oh, big edge to Judy to me.

Starting point is 00:23:55 Okay. Really? I mean, I think Ridley's a good player. He's just not a great player. He's fine. I think Judy's actually good. I never liked the Ridley deal in the first place for the Titans. So maybe I'm comparing the prior to the prior to.

Starting point is 00:24:06 The deal is different than the player. But yeah, go ahead. And then David and Joku is certainly better than Chigakakwa. And Chigakko gave the Bengals plenty of issues. Last week was like the most productive member of that Tennessee offense. Perhaps the running backs a little bit better in Tennessee. They have a one-two punch there, but Pollard was hurt anyway. Anyway, the Browns are still the third worst scoring offense in the NFL this year.

Starting point is 00:24:32 And they just went to their third quarterback. And this is a quarterback without a lot of NFL experience, without a high pedigree. They're playing a couple of first round picks before. They couldn't get those guys working. So Kevin Safansky, I would say, has this work cut out for him. Because that's the big thing, right? Like, say all you want about the weapons,

Starting point is 00:24:47 and the weapons are good players, and there's all these good players that talked about, the Miles Garris, Jerry, Judis, David and Jokos, whoever you want to name. But it's still Joe Burrow on one side and Dorian Thompson Robinson on the other side. For sure. No doubt.

Starting point is 00:25:01 In games like that this year, the Bengals have taken care of business. I'll use that term again. Against every team except the New England Patriots in week one when Joe Burrow was not himself. Yep. And they should have anyways, but that's why they're in this

Starting point is 00:25:18 position now needing everyone. They need so much help. They need the NFL in multiple teams to be very generous this holiday season and put themselves in this position. By the way, David and Joku, the reason I didn't mention him, I didn't know for sure if he was playing this week, but Kevin

Starting point is 00:25:34 Stefansky did say he's optimistic. He missed last week the hamstring. So he's coming back from a hamstring, expected to play. We'll see on how effective he is. But you're right. I mean, he's much better than Shigakonkwo, who is a quality tight end, I would say. Yeah, but I mean, these all assume players are playing. This is before we've seen certain injury reports, especially late week injury reports. But we also haven't seen the results of this Broncos Chargers, Thursday night football game as we record this episode. Perhaps you have by now. That's obviously a. big game when you're talking about the help the Bengals need this week. Beyond that,

Starting point is 00:26:10 the Colts host the Titans need the Colts to lose one more. They have a very soft schedule as we discussed earlier this week to finish up the year. And the other game that the Bengals could use some help. Well, obviously there's the Dolphins 49ers. Yeah, it's that one. Is that everything? Yeah. You want the Chargers to beat the Broncos. You need the dolphins to lose. And then you need the Colts to lose. And so can the 49ers get it done? And can Brian Callahan and the fighting Mason Rudolph's get it done? Mason Rudolph leading the Titans as Christmas approaches, as is the job of Rudolph's at that time of year, right? I was waiting for the joke. I was waiting for the joke. Brian Callahan, by the way, with a really great rant if you missed it. So that's a good thing.

Starting point is 00:27:00 These are some tough bleepers, he said. Yeah. I honestly, and we don't need to spend a lot of time on this, we'll wrap the show here, but I honestly have so much sympathy for the argument that just because they're losing doesn't mean they're soft, just because they can't win games doesn't mean they're soft. A lot of times you see people start throwing around those softness accusations at football teams when they're bad.

Starting point is 00:27:22 They're just bad sometimes. That doesn't necessarily mean they're soft or not, you know, sometimes it does. But you get the point. Let's wrap up there, James. We'll be back with you after the game. Obviously, right now we don't know exactly what it will mean or how important it will be with all of these other things that need to happen between now and them.

Starting point is 00:27:45 But the Bengals looking to find reasons to keep their December football, at least with the possibility of being meaningful, really using a lot of language there to dress up the fact that, like, there's a lot that needs to happen, obviously, for the Bengals, but they still will play these football games. Until next time, thanks for listening. listening to this episode of the Locked-on Bengals podcast. Hoodeh, and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Can the Cincinnati Bengals sweep the Cleveland Browns for the first time under Zac Taylor?

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