Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals coaching staff on the hot seat after 1-4 start to the season?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals season is on the brink of disaster and changes must be made. Does that involve a mid-season coaching change? What about personnel? Let's break it down. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe, joined as always by your host,

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Starting point is 00:01:01 clamor for the team to fire a coach here or a coach there or try. trade for Dexter Lawrence and bring him back from New York with the Bengals or whatever you think the Bengals need to do to salvage their season. We're going to start today by taking a look at the coaching staff and asking the question, because in the minds of fans, James, these seats are certainly hot. But in the minds of the Cincinnati Bengals, and we know how the Cincinnati Bengals work, I am skeptical. The question is, should seats be hot for this coaching staff right now? Sure. Of course they should. They're one in four. Like there's no one in the building should feel comfortable because in that include, like everybody should be on notice because you're one and four. And so when you start out like that and their Super Bowl expectations, it's black and white to me. And I'm sure they feel that. I'm sure they feel like you're telling me Joe doesn't feel it. He talked for 12ish minutes after the game and you could just tell. it was a deflating loss and so the should is a no-brainer now that doesn't mean you you fire this

Starting point is 00:02:14 you pull in new york jets and you just fire the staff right now because they're one and four and because fans are frustrated i'm not saying that they and there's much different things pressure to perform well it's there and it should be increased i mean last week was a must win This week is like a must win and you better come out and show in all phases that you can be a buttoned up team. And because we haven't seen that in any of these games. And that's a big reason why they're one and four. And a lot of that does fall on coaching. That's why people are frustrated.

Starting point is 00:02:48 So the should things be hot, I have no doubt in my mind that they should. And the key for me, because we've seen these coaches, especially your time, talking about Zach Taylor, Lou Anarumo, Dan Pitcher, and I'm naming these guys knowing that one side of the ball is playing much better than the other. Darren Simmons, these guys have had their players in tight moments, in big moments. They've coached these guys when they failed in big moments. And what's happened? They've responded the right way. And I think that that's probably internally as we push the conversation forward, how the Bengals are viewing it. They're not going to shoot from the hip, so to speak, because they expected to be really good this year

Starting point is 00:03:37 and fire their coach after five games or fire their defensive coordinator after five games. But should their, should Lou Anorumo feel pressure, of course. Should Zach Taylor feel pressure? Of course. Should these guys, and whether you want to say Duke Tobin or ownership, everyone should feel pressure in the building. It shouldn't be comfortable today. In today being Tuesday, as we record this, the Bengals off day, as the coaches prepare

Starting point is 00:04:01 and put the game plan together for Sunday's game against the Giants. Yeah, I agree with you. I think seats should be warm. And we'll talk about each one, I think, individually. Sure. But what does a mid-season firing accomplish? That is a question that I ask when we're talking about making changes in season. I have my doubts that the long-term effects long-term being over the course of the season, not long-term for the future.

Starting point is 00:04:29 obviously long term for the future after the season ends, not necessarily major impacts to talk about, but maybe you get a couple games of a bump, right? You make a coaching change. You've got a new guy in charge. We've seen this with the Panthers. We've seen this with other teams in years past where you get that couple game bouts of the Raiders last year with Antonio Pierce.

Starting point is 00:04:50 You see the brief response from teams and units when you make those in-season changes. It's not necessarily sustainable. we're still early enough in the season for a team that is still thinking about the wild card, is still thinking about figuring things out and making a run, it's still exploring options for maybe player acquisition. We'll talk about that later and my skepticism that the team is interested in adding externally. But at some point, I think you take a big picture look, right?

Starting point is 00:05:23 And it's not just that they're one and four this season. It's the continued struggles in the early season. It's Lou Anaruma who came into this season is PFF's fifth ranked defensive coordinator in the league, as Russ Helptman pointed out on Bengals Talk at SI.com. The idea that coming into the season, we still had all this confidence in Luana Rumo, his ability to game plan for difficult quarterbacks. And we saw that even in week two against Patrick Mahomes where they got him to make mistakes that are uncharacteristic of Patrick Mahomes. They did a pretty good job against that team. But there's this mantra from Lou. that we've heard, you know, points not yards, because this has been a bad yardage-based defense for

Starting point is 00:06:03 almost every year in Cincinnati when Anna Ramos been around. Going back to the first Zach Taylor year, everything was a disaster. The defense was 25th in points allowed, 29th in yards allowed. The next year, 22nd in points allowed, 26th in yards allowed. The next year, 21, they go to the Super Bowl. The defense is much better in the postseason, to be fair, but in the regular season, 17th in points allowed, 18th in yards allowed, big jump. Next year, the best year for Lou Aniromo,

Starting point is 00:06:32 six best scoring defense in the NFL, still giving up the 16th most yards in the regular season. And then the last two years, things kind of go back to the first couple of years, 21st in points allowed last year, 31st in yards allowed. This year, that Ben don't break philosophy hasn't worked. They're 31st in points allowed.

Starting point is 00:06:53 Somehow there's a team worse than them, but they're the second worst scoring defense in the NFL and the 26th worst yardage defense in the NFL. And that includes week one against the future Patriots offense where they only gave up 16 points. And that's part of these numbers too, right? And so. And by the way, that's a bad performance against the Patriots. Jacoby Brissette is going to likely get benched this week. Maybe by the time you hear this.

Starting point is 00:07:16 So the fact that they gave up 16, it's honestly brutal looking back. And we could sack them. Which has been thematic. They couldn't sack him. He was run. Like, he ran. Jacobi Berset ran. It just can't happen.

Starting point is 00:07:33 So the point that I'm trying to illustrate here is it's not just a this year thing, right, that we're reacting to, that fans are reacting to. They're looking specifically, let's just stay on the defensive side of the ball, right? They're looking at years of performances from Lou where he's figured it out in the playoffs and he's put together really good game plans. And they figured some things out late in the season. They figured out the bend don't break thing. They've made big plays down the stretch. But then they've lost players that were making those big plays for them late in games or latent drives near the goal line.

Starting point is 00:08:00 And now we've got terrible results for two straight years outside of a couple of games last year where we're like, oh, maybe they're fine in the middle of the season against San Francisco against Buffalo. Yeah. And I think that's where the conversation should go next is the blend between the two because I think some people hear that and they're like, all right, well, then the front office takes blame. Definitely.

Starting point is 00:08:21 But this coaching staff has a big part of it too. And so let's let's continue with that with some of the personnel changes and decisions, who they've brought in to replace some of those stars you mentioned, and why it probably hasn't worked out the way they thought we will do that coming up next. Today's show is brought to by PrizePix. Prize PICS is Daily Fantasy the way it should be. With over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings, prize picks has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to all.

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Starting point is 00:09:53 It's not just every year. It's not just the coaching staff. It's a hybrid approach from this front office and this coaching staff. We know that the coaching staff in Cincinnati has more of an impact on roster building than most other teams in the NFL, if not all other teams in the NFL. The front office also hasn't done exactly what Lou and Irrimo wanted. He told them last year before the offseason started that losing Von Bell and Jesse Bates would be a dark day and it was. and eventually they bring Von Bell back this year and they're trying to get the band back together

Starting point is 00:10:27 but they're missing that key cog in Jesse Bates and in the same year they let DJ Reader walk and so there is this collaboration between the coaching staff and front office in Cincinnati but there's also some clear differences in opinions on a few guys or a few decisions and that's part of the problem too I think as is some of the personnel decisions in general

Starting point is 00:10:51 as far as players they've targeted to acquire. Yeah, I think that's what's interesting here is like, the coaching staff loved Gino Stone, right? Like, part of it is that you could blame Duke, and I'm sure they signed off and blamed the personnel department, but they love Gino Stone, and Gino Stone has been bad. Let's call it like it is. He has been bad through five weeks.

Starting point is 00:11:15 Maybe he won't be bad for the final 12 weeks, 11 games, but so far, bad. 11 games all 12 games Sorry there's still 12 games left 18 weeks And so maybe he has seven interceptions over the final 12 weeks and is in position and is doing all the things that you thought he would do We haven't seen it yet and that's where the red flag is because they already went down this road with Nick Scott last year And they said ah this didn't work But Gino Stone will work and this is just one of the many examples right where it's like okay well

Starting point is 00:11:49 what we're not going to keep this guy, but maybe we'll go with this guy. And it's, it's tough because early on, especially when they made the leap from 2020 to 2021, think about how much they got right in free agency. Trey Hendrickson, Mike Hilton, Chittobail Wuzier are three big names. Other names, of course, Larry Ogunjoba, you bring him in, DJ Reader in 2020. Like all these guys, it was hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, tray Wayne's miss. It's not always going to be that way. And that's why I think we've all found out. If you have this elite talent, you keep that elite talent.

Starting point is 00:12:28 And you're watching Jesse Bates do what he's doing. And it's pretty painful because I would be shocked. They could have you playing strong safety. But if Jesse Bates is back there at free, they'd probably be better off them where they are today where it just feels like they're searching. And Lewis searching. And he's blitzing.

Starting point is 00:12:46 And he's trying to figure out ways around this. defense. They're spending a lot of money on the defensive front, right? A huge weakness. They're spending a lot of money there, though. And so that's what's tough. It's not like it's a money thing. It's a getting the right guys thing. And clearly, at least through five weeks, the right guys are not there. And the coaching staff hasn't been able to push the right buttons either. And not only are they spending money, but they're spending premium draft picks for the last few years on defensive players that are not making the impact that you need them to make. They have drafted an overhang defender in Dax Hill, who I don't blame for this, but they tried to move him to safety.

Starting point is 00:13:26 They kind of moved him around. It didn't go well. And then they drafted Jordan Battle in the third round the next year, and the safety room is still really bad. They've invested premium assets there. They have five safeties on the team. We talked about that yesterday. They have five safeties on the team, and it might be the worst position group on defense. And that's with a defensive line that can't get after the passer at all.

Starting point is 00:13:47 And they've also invested resources, as you mentioned, financial, and draft capital in that defensive line that is, I don't know, I guess they're actually performing better than I thought they would against the run. But part of that is, as we talked about with Mike on the film review episode yesterday, they're selling out to stop it. They're putting four linebackers and four defensive linemen on the field at times. Lou's emptying his bench. He's blitzing more than ever.

Starting point is 00:14:10 He's trying things. But it's at the point where we're throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks and looking for something that works and looking for something. something that they're good at, but they're not really good at anything right now. And that's, it's not an opportunistic defense where they're giving up a bunch of yards and they're making key stops or getting turnovers that we grew accustomed to in years past. And that's not sustainable. At some point that regresses and maybe that's what we're seeing a little bit here too. But it's also on a play to play basis, the worst defense we've seen from Louana Rimo, like the success rate,

Starting point is 00:14:45 the EPA per play, all of those numbers are just. just as bad as the traditional numbers, yards, points, whatever. The mistackling issue we've bemoaned here too. At some point, and I said this, I think, earlier this week, yes, they have a problem with some of their players not executing and not executing as we've seen them execute in the past. We have some players that aren't playing up to their level and up to their standard. But at some point, it's not just the players.

Starting point is 00:15:16 It goes back to the coaching staff and the way they're approaching things. At some point, and from the outside, it's impossible to know where this point is, which is really hard. But at some point, that does need to be the hard conversation that the Bengals are having and figuring out what their direction is. And it's not just a defense either. That's where we probably need to go. But certainly a lot of focus there when the offense is executing at a high level from an overall perspective, from a scoring perspective, we've seen them be great recently. They folded in some clutch moments, and I think that's another conversation. But giving up the second most points in the league in a year where you're supposed to be a Super Bowl contender against a soft start to their schedule that we talked about a ton this preseason is beyond unacceptable.

Starting point is 00:16:04 And to me, the one thing coaching wise, like, let's just say you don't have the right personnel. Missing DJ Reeder, the water just isn't working. So Jesse Bates isn't that. You can't turn Nick Scott into Jesse Bates. I get that. you can't turn Gino Stone, and I don't think we were expecting Stone to be Bates, but we thought it'd be a sound football player. That's what's frustrating about this.

Starting point is 00:16:28 Like, Von Bell, Gino Stone, veterans, a Jermaine Pratt. You have to be sound. Like, all right, you're not the fastest. But just do the basic stuff. And this defense isn't even doing that. And that's why you start to look at the coaching, at least for me. Like, I don't expect Gino Stone to put on a Bengals jersey and run a four for. But I expect him, a veteran, to start taking the right angles.

Starting point is 00:16:56 I expect Vaughn to know, all right, this is my, this is the tight end that I have to stick with. I'm going to run with him. He just didn't run with him at first. Everyone's talking about how slow he is, and that's fine. But you should be in a running motion earlier then because you know he's running a go. And you can tell that you can't get beat deep there because it's one-on-one. like those are the things that are most frustrating for me is it's it's these low level mistakes that you would expect from the the Jordan battles as a rookie the dachshills his first year starting

Starting point is 00:17:28 Tyson anderson who hasn't played a lot of defensive snaps like if you just went with those guys let's say they didn't touch the safety room this offseason those are the type of things we should be talking the first five weeks maybe maybe you could give them a little grace we're talking about veterans. And that's, to me at least, that's the thing that's so frustrating because it's things that they should be able to do down in and down out because we've seen it in the past, whether it's Gino in Baltimore or Vaughn here previously. Well, and I think part of it with Gino Stone specifically is getting him in a position where he can do things that he does well. And I don't know if the Bengals have figured that out for him yet. I don't think that he's

Starting point is 00:18:13 suddenly this worse safety in the NFL kind of player that PFF would have you believe he is. And he's had some bad moments. Don't get me wrong. We've talked about some of those bad moments, but I don't think he's just a gambler who got lucky for an entire year in Baltimore. I'm sure that's part of it. He does have, we were told, a bit of a risky approach, a bit of a gambling approach in coverage at times. But I don't think that means he's suddenly the worst player in the NFL because things aren't going his way this year. I think that part of it is what position are you putting them in? It's not like the defense has been all bad, to be clear, but they're not getting enough as a unit. They're not stringing plays together. They can't string

Starting point is 00:18:52 plays together without gambling correctly on multiple plays in a row. So yeah, it's tough. It's tough to think that there isn't some culpability at this point on the coaching staff when you've got the collection of veterans and players that have been around and have been in the system and you're not getting the results. And maybe they turn it around, right? And in five weeks, we're saying, ah, it's just a slow start thing. But that's the other thing is you can't take a month to figure it out. And we've given this coaching staff a ton of credit for making adaptations in the past. But it can't take you that long.

Starting point is 00:19:29 At some point, you need to start winning games early in a season, especially this year with the soft schedule they had to start. And I know Washington has been much better than expected. That's part of the disappointment, too, is it just taking too long. We'll continue with the other side of the ball as we continue to look for changes. Should they make personnel changes as safety? That's another topic that we were planning to get to here. Maybe we go there next as we finish up the show looking for what's next for the Cincinnati Bengals team.

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Starting point is 00:20:23 hopefully continue to score the 30 plus that they've done the past three weeks. That's what's crazy, Jake. 30 plus the past three weeks. They finally are reaching the mark that I've given that for years. And they're one and two over that span. Get in on the action right now with Fandle. And whether it's with the Bengals, whether you're betting against the Bengals.

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Starting point is 00:21:51 and all of those courses are self-paced so you can start whenever you want and tune in wherever. Plus you can go deeper with readings, quizzes or discussions or just enjoy the lectures. Right now to get started, you can check it out at hillsdale.edu slash locked on to enroll. There's no cost. It's easy to get started. Again, that's hillsdale.com. edu slash locked on to register. All right, Jake. Let's get to the safety conversation. Because a lot of people are on the Jordan Battle train going into week five.

Starting point is 00:22:24 Jordan Battle gets in. First snap gets tested. Mark Andrews wins. Lou Anorumo asked about him saying, Jordan's just got to continue to work hard, basically. I acknowledge Von missed a couple of tackles in that session with the writers as well. I think he's probably frustrated, but Jordan Battle, it's not like he came in and lit it up. I'm not ruling him out.

Starting point is 00:22:48 I'm just saying that. And the reason is because I want to move down the line here. Have we reached a point where you're curious about Tyson Anderson or curious about Dejan Anthony in what they could bring? Should Lou, and this is the more important thing, it doesn't really matter what we think. But should Lou consider it because it's been so bad on the back end, that they mix in Jordan battle, mix in Tyson Anderson, find ways to get Dejohn Anthony on the field. I know this is a weird conversation.

Starting point is 00:23:18 We're talking about safetys three through five, but I think it's a conversation that needs to be at. Well, you kept them for a reason, right? You got five safeties on the roster for the first time in the Lou Annamo era. You kept them on the roster for a reason, right? It's not just special teams. We were talking about Dejaon Anthony working in with the ones back in camp. They worked him in with the ones in regular season games.

Starting point is 00:23:40 didn't go great. He went back to the bench. It's been a few games. It's been a few weeks of practices. Like I said, we're at the point where we're throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. And Lou Ediromo is too. Muma Zhang Mehta is on the field early in that week five game against Baltimore. They are emptying the bench, everybody but Tyson Anderson, I think, getting a defensive snap in that game. I think Dejan Anthony actually did. I might have said he didn't in our post-game show. So, yeah, I don't see why we're not. emptying the bench at this point. Just find something.

Starting point is 00:24:14 Try to find something. What you're doing isn't working. The worst case is it still doesn't work. And nothing has changed. But at least you've tried something different, right? Yeah. I keep thinking about Tyson as like that deep safety. And we haven't seen that.

Starting point is 00:24:31 And he's made plays on the ball in the preseason. We know he tested like an elite athlete. He's the only sub four four guy in that. room. I don't think Dejaum was sub 4-4, was he? I might be wrong on that. I don't think so. But sub-4-4, like speed, speed, speed, has good instincts. We saw him make a big special teams tackle against the Panthers. Like, he's a willing tackler, special teamer, willing to get his hands there. Like, maybe you do go that route. Maybe you do try to get Jordan Battle a little bit more involved. Like I, I don't think,

Starting point is 00:25:07 and by the way, some will say, oh, well, they just paid Gino. I don't think, in fact, I know. Duke isn't going to come down and be like, hey, play Gino. Like, the pressure's on right now. He, that's, that's out the door. You've got to find a way to put the best guys out there that are going to win. You're one and four. The season's teetering. And so that's what I, I think is interesting. I think it'll be the same starters this week and in Gino Stone and Von Bell. But I think that leash is much, much shorter. Certainly for Vaughn, we saw it. And maybe for Gino as well. Hopefully that for the Giants, it's like Malik Neighbors and not a whole lot else on offense simplifies things for the defense. Wondell Robinson, man. He's been a big part of

Starting point is 00:25:50 their offense. Yeah, it's good though. I mean, Malik Neighbors is a guy that you're scared of on that offense. Wondale Robinson is getting a lot of targets, but, and they have to deal with, they have to deal with everybody. I mean, Noah Brown last year. You don't have to go back very far to think of guys that we would talk about like this pregame and then they go off. in the game. That's a Bengals defense right now. Dejaum was a 4-5-40, by the way, for those of you wondering. So sub-4-5.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Yeah. Like Tyson's the only sub-4-5. Sorry, I didn't finish my entire thought. The defense has to figure something out, though, right? And maybe it's like they've been injured on the front and they've played the most evasive quarterbacks in the NFL and Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes and Jad and Daniels. and that's making everything look way worse than it is.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Maybe some of this is matchup stuff, but they also couldn't get Andy Dalton or Jacoby Perciet to the ground, so it's hard for me to put too much there. And we've talked about it with this past rush. And this is what goes back to Duke Tobin and the personnel decisions in the draft and free agency. And the coaching staff sticking with some guys where they could get younger guys in, they're not getting enough out of the past rush.

Starting point is 00:27:07 It's another week where we're going to be talking about Trey Hendricksson going against the only good offensive tackle or offensive lineman for the Giants in Andrew Thomas left tackle and saying, can somebody else win? We're talking about that again this week. Move them. No, put Trey on the other side. Sure, that too. Honestly.

Starting point is 00:27:26 A pretty basic idea that they could try to try to get some pressure. Shocker. Yeah, yeah. That we don't even like doesn't even come into my head because they haven't really done it more than like a handful of snaps here. there. Last thing, go ahead. Rankin's is the other hope. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:45 This week is that you have Sheldon back and they desperately, desperately need him. Like us needing water at training camp, Jake. Yeah. Need him to give a little pass rush in the middle there. Yeah. It would be a good week for it too. The interior of that Giants offensive line isn't something to write home about by any means. We'll have more time to talk about that.

Starting point is 00:28:07 Last thing I wanted to get to you today is do we put much on the coaching staff in terms of the clutch moments on both sides of the ball? Where you look at the one score record. And this was a big eyesore for Zach Taylor the first couple of years, 213 and one in his first 16 one score games. Since then, they're 12 and 14 in the regular season, 17 and 16, including the postseason. They've actually been quite good in the postseason until their elimination games that they've lost. but overall in the postseason, they are five and two in one score games. But is that part of a trend at this point?

Starting point is 00:28:45 The AFC North record, the one score game record, are these things in your mind when you're thinking about the staff as well? Well, it's certainly, certainly in my mind from the other day because of the decision down the stretch there in overtime to not be aggressive,

Starting point is 00:29:00 not get closer, not give Joe a chance at third and seven. The more I think about it, the more it's like, all right, Joe, game on the line, you're expecting something bad to happen or you don't want something bad to happen, but you're willing to hand it off to a second year running back. And I love Chase Brown, but what are we talking about?

Starting point is 00:29:18 Like, there isn't a running back in the league that I would rather have the ball than Joe Burrow to have the ball, unless it's fourth and inches and Marchion Lynch is in her backfield, right? Like, you know, it's just, it's kind of silly to me the more I think about it. So, yeah, like decisions like that hurt,

Starting point is 00:29:33 especially when the margin for error is probably thinner, thinner than it's been since 21, when they were a very flawed team up and down year. That was a flawed team that made it to the Super Bowl. And they were able to overcome the offensive line issues. And that was a reason why they were so inconsistent on offense. Well, now you're seeing these inconsistencies at the end of games. And in the discipline stuff, Tanner Hudson, back to week one,

Starting point is 00:30:01 like the penalties, little things, not being able to hold. Like eventually it does add up and you start looking at the coaches. And so we're getting there. You know how you silence it, Zach and Lou and all these guys? You go win. Go win a couple road games. Come back home a few weeks from now with a chance to get back to 500. That's really the only way this is going to come back down a bit because it's a

Starting point is 00:30:31 performance-based business, as they know. And it needs to continue all year. It can't just be a few games. We can't just be wild card conversation. They bounce back, but they fell just short of the wild card. If they don't make it to the playoffs this year after this start, this start is going to remain in focus into the off season, into the early part of the off season when there should be tough decisions and tough

Starting point is 00:30:52 conversations in that Bengals front office. But the first step toward changing the narrative is taking care of business against a Giants team against whom you are road favorites in week six. And we will turn the page and start turning our attention to that week six game with our crossover coming your way on our next episode of Lockdown Bengals. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Ho day. And have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals coaching staff on the hot seat after 1-4 start to the season?

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