Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals Face New York Jets in Possible Joe Flacco REVENGE GAME

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's Bengals and Jets on Sunday. The Bengals looking to get to 500, the Jets, well, they're looking for a quarterback. We'll get into it right now in a special crossover edition of Locked on Bengals and Locked on Jets. You are Locked on NFL crossover, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hi again, everyone, and welcome in to Locked on Bengals, Locked on Jets.

Starting point is 00:00:31 He's John Buchko. I'm James Irpene, and we're going to get you. you all set already for Sunday's matchup between the Bengals and the Jets at Paycores Stadium. This crossover Thursday is brought to you by prize picks. Download the Price Picks app today. Use code locked on NFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Shout out to all of our everydayers, all of our first listens of both locked on Bengals and locked on Jets.

Starting point is 00:00:59 And John, this is certainly an interesting matchup between two teams that I did. didn't have a few weeks ago as this being a revenge game. And yet here we are. You got Joe Flacco on one side. You have quarterback uncertainty on the other. I assume the quarterback uncertainty is dominating the New York Jets talk this week. Well, you know, James, it's funny because the joke around the Jets fan base was the Bengals traded for Flacco specifically to make it a revenge game because we've had revenge game since week one, starting with Aaron Rogers. We had Elijah Moore, week two, Todd Bowles and Hassan Redick I'm not going to go down the list but like every week spent

Starting point is 00:01:39 a revenge game for the New York Jets this season so I think the Bengals had to make that trade to make sure that the streak would stay intact but yeah the quarterback situation for the Jets is pretty messy so at the time we are recording this podcast there has not yet been an official announcement

Starting point is 00:01:55 but I think we can expect that at some point this week the Jets will announce that Tyrod Taylor stepping into the starting lineup for many reasons but at the top of the list Justin Field has reached a point where they had no choice but to bench him against Carolina on Sunday. And I heading into Sunday's game against Carolina had felt like, you know, you still stick with Fields because he gives you more upside than Tyrod Taylor.

Starting point is 00:02:20 But watching that first half, particularly the sacks he took, I mean, it was just the look of a quarterback who's completely lost. And having covered the Jets for as long as I have, I've seen that look in a quarterback before, where, you know, he's just staring down a screen and taking a sack. his footwork's not even matching up with the receiver's routes. You know, Fields just look completely lost. And while Tyrod Taylor is limited,

Starting point is 00:02:44 he at least will get the ball out. I mean, I'll tell you, I was following this game online. And Tyrod Taylor threw two interceptions of the second half after replacing Fields against Carolina. And a lot of the reception from the Jets fan base was, well,

Starting point is 00:02:56 at least he's throwing the football because Fields was very, very hesitant. So it speaks volumes about where you're at when your fan base is not upset with your quarterback for throwing interceptions because at least he's throwing the ball. That's kind of wild because Jake Browning a few weeks ago, who I think during his three-week stretch was the worst quarterback in the league, he was throwing the ball, he was throwing the ball to the other team or to the wrong guy. And so to take that another layer and see him hold on to it, it's rough because from a physically gifted standpoint, Justin Fields has that. And you think, oh, well, he's going to run and he can, and I know Garrett Wilson's nicked up right now,

Starting point is 00:03:37 but like he can launch deep balls to Garrett Wilson. Like on paper, I understood the Justin Fields edition and see if you can get more out of him than what was previously gotten. And yet here we are. It's week eight. And it feels like the, the Fields experiment isn't just benched for now and he'll be back. Like, it feels over. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:00 I mean, because Taylor is the only other. quarterback on the roster, they may have to put Fields back in at some point. Tyrod through his career has not been a durable guy. He's injured frequently. The only other quarterback who's, you know, like part of the Jets right now is a undrafted rookie who's on the practice squad, Brady Cook, but I think you're absolutely right. I'm not sure Fields has taken his last snap, but it's pretty clear that the experiment is a failure.

Starting point is 00:04:25 It's pretty clear that Fields is very unlikely to be back next season. The thing I don't really understand is it didn't seem like the Jets really built their offense around Fields' skill set. They were not a team that were using a lot of design quarterback runs. There's a lot of things that, like, they didn't do. There weren't a lot of RPO's in their offense when Fields was playing quarterback, which is something he ran effectively at Ohio State, no, not a lot of half-field reads, just like the sort of things you would think you'd run with Justin Field.

Starting point is 00:04:56 So I almost like don't understand why they signed Justin Fields if they were going to run this sort of offense because this is like kind of a conventional NFL offense. And we know that that's not something that in Justin Fields is wheelhouse at this point of his career. So I think that, you know, look, Fields has not played well enough. But I think there also have to be questions about the Jets approach to everything because Fields has been really bad. And it's gotten to a point where he's playing at a lower level than he did in Chicago. And, you know, you can say Fields maybe he didn't succeed in Chicago, but he also wasn't this bad where, you know, he was getting benched after five and a half start.

Starting point is 00:05:32 So I think there's a lot of blame to go around, but James, you're absolutely right. I think that this experiment is reached its end point. And meanwhile, Bengals-wise, it's it felt like that. I mean, it's a very similar feeling after their three-game losing streak. And then the rumors were buzzing in the air after what was that, that final loss. It was to Detroit. And so they lose, they go on the road without Joe Burrow.

Starting point is 00:05:59 they lose to Minnesota, they lose to Denver, tough defenses. You come home for Detroit, you're like, all right, well, let's see them be competitive. And Jake Browning ensures that that's not the case until the fourth quarter. And so the Bengals were on the phone calling everybody and seeing what their options were at quarterback. They go get Joe Flacco. And he's thrown five touchdowns, no picks after with the Browns throwing two touchdowns and six picks in two starts, has been able to write the ship thrown for 561 yards.

Starting point is 00:06:29 has really brought new life. So not just this offense, but the entire franchise. And it's, let's start here, because you have a unique perspective because we've covered a ton of, lack of Bengals listeners have heard plenty about Flagg over the past couple of weeks.

Starting point is 00:06:45 How surprised are you, given where he was a few years ago with the Jets, to see him now in 2025, not just 2023 with the Browns, but now 2025, at least injecting a little bit of fun. Who knows how long, this last, but a little Flacco fun to the Bengals.

Starting point is 00:07:02 Yeah. So I'm not surprised. If you'd asked me in early 20, 25, am I surprised by this? The answer would be no. But during his tenure with the Jets, I mean, it seemed like Flacco was at the end of the line. Agreed. I mean, you could, I think you could say, like, you go back to the end of his tenure with Baltimore.

Starting point is 00:07:19 It just seemed like his days as a starter in this league were over. You really did not see many positive traits left in him. And then, you know, he had that, like, Renaissance. late in the 2023 season when the Brown suffered all those injuries at the quarterback position. I mean, I remember Flacco actually started a game for the Jets back in 2022 against the Bengals when Zach Wilson was hurt. And I remember my post game recap, which looking back is kind of funny. I said, I can't wait for Zach Wilson to get back because this offense can't do anything

Starting point is 00:07:49 with Flacco in there. He had really become like the ultimate checkdown artist. Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, it just, it, I know, I don't really know how to explain it. He's had one of the strangest career arcs I've ever seen where, you know, he started out in Baltimore, he was kind of like the game manager with Raven slowly improved, got to the point where, you know, the is Joe Flacco elite became a meme. They win the Super Bowl.

Starting point is 00:08:14 And from that point, they got the big contract with Baltimore and things just kind of fell off. And he kind of went through the natural regression. It ended with a stint with the Jets as the backup quarterback, as many. as many once good careers did. And then he goes to Cleveland and has like, you know, kind of like finds this new life. You know,

Starting point is 00:08:34 I think that when you've got a veteran like Flacco, if you put him into a good situation, he still has enough in his arm to succeed. I think if you put him in a situation like the Jets had those three years, he was here as the backup quarterback where you don't really have an offensive line, look, we know he's not mobile. We know he can't buy any extra time.

Starting point is 00:08:51 Most of those years, they did not have quality receivers. So, you know, I don't know the Flacco's. really a guy that can transcend a bad situation at this point. But you put him into a situation where you, you know, even it's not a perfect situation, even if you don't have a great offensive line, but you have a number one receiver like Jamar Chase, you know, he can still throw the ball. He can still make plays for you. For sure. And that's what we're seeing. And that was

Starting point is 00:09:11 my initial reaction to the trade is, hey, at least you have a guy who can get the ball to your weapons. And he's done that and then some. And I think what's so interesting about this game Sunday is no one expected them to win in green. then they four days later play the Steelers and it's a throwed a kitchen sink game is how I would describe it. It was a must win. They had to beat the Steelers to kind of give themselves a shot to feel like there's hope. Well, now this is different because it's a better win. Like you can't let the Jets win because you need this game when you look at the schedule.

Starting point is 00:09:46 If you're hoping to stay in the playoff race, playoff hunt and there's a lot of weird stuff going on with the Jets quarterback wise. And so can Joe in this? offense continue to deliver. It's one of the big matchups we will discuss coming up next year on a special locked on crossover. This show is brought to by prize picks. Prize picks is the app you need right now. And well, I got to be honest, it's daily fantasy the way it should be, daily fantasy where you're looking and you're like, all right, well, I know Josh Allen's going to throw for a ton of yards. Or I know Joe Flacko's going to throw for a ton of yards. Or you know what? I think Tyrod Taylor is going to have a huge game against that Bengals defense. Well,

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Starting point is 00:11:03 lineup. That's code locked on NFL for $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup prize picks. It's good to be right. This show is also brought to you by Game Time. Game Time is the app that's going to make life so much easier for you, whether you're a Jets fan

Starting point is 00:11:19 coming to town to watch Jets Bengals on Sunday. Maybe, just maybe, there will be some Jets fans in the crowd. Or maybe you're a Fangos fan making the trek and you're like, I really want to see Joe Flacko versus Tyraud Taylor in the year 2025, which is not something that I thought we would be saying, regardless, game time is going to make that experience really easy and find the perfect 100% authentic tickets. And you're going to get those delivered on time.

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Starting point is 00:12:02 locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, that's promo code L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N-N-FL-L NFL, locked on NFL for $20 off. Swipe, tap, Ticket, go download Game Time today. All right, John. Let's continue the conversation here with some of the big matchups. And I do think the first one that I'm intrigued by, because there's so much discussion and talk about the quarterback situation with the Jets. But for me, this Bengals team, the reason it's been different over the past six quarters and certainly last week against the Steelers is Joe Flacco had time. They were able to open up running lanes and they were able to protect Joe and he got the ball

Starting point is 00:12:47 out to the Bengals playmakers. So how do you view this Jets defensive front? Because anytime I think of the Jets defensive front, I think of Quinn and Williams, who's obviously a great player. Yes. And Quinn and Williams is having an excellent season. The best way I can describe the Jets' defensive front is that there's high quality at the top, but there is not a lot of depth. A couple of years ago, the Jets had one of the deepest defensive lines in the league, particularly at the defensive end spot.

Starting point is 00:13:17 I mean, they could roll out Jermaine Johnson and John Franklin Myers. They had behind them Bryce Huff and former Bengal Carl Lawson. They even had Will McDonald as a rookie. This was a team that could send in substitutions in waves and still have high quality snaps coming on every single play. There is not that level of depth now on this Jets defensive line. There are three players who have decent track records in this league. Quinn and Williams is one of them. Then at the defensive, at least as far as pass rushers go, they do have a couple good run-stopping nose tackles.

Starting point is 00:13:51 But as far as past rushes go, Quinn and Williams at defensive tackle, then at defensive end, you have Jermaine Johnson and Will McDonald's. and McDonald's having kind of a down year after a 10 and a half sack season last year. Behind them, though, the defense event spot becomes very weak, very fast. You have Michael Clemens, who is a fourth-year guy who really has not developed. You have a couple of young guys, Tyler Barron and Braden McGregor, who Barron's a late-round pick. McGregor's non-drafted free agents, neither of them have really shown much lately. And you saw a couple times in the Jets game against Carolina where the Jets tried to get their starters a break. had their second team defensive line in there.

Starting point is 00:14:30 And those were some of the most successful stretches Carolina had during that game. So this Jets team is one where they need to lean on their top guys, particularly in terms of the pass rush, because the first team guys can hold their own, but the second team guys cannot. Yeah. And I think that's what's so interesting. You mentioned Will McDonald's. I know that's someone that trade deadline-wise, I think it's going to come up at times, right? Quentin Williams, I discussed him.

Starting point is 00:15:02 And I wonder, starter-wise, if this Bengals starting unit, as we record this, it's Wednesday. And I'm not sure if it's going to be Dalton Reisner for a third straight game at left guard, if they're going to go back to Dylan Fairchild, the rookie, I assume they'll stick with Reisner because he's played so well over the past couple of weeks with Joe Flacko at quarterback. Do they stick with Jalen Rivers? Do they not? It's worth noting Rivers and Fairchild are listed as the starting guards. But that's a huge storyline to me because when I think of the path to Joe Flacco regressing and throwing some picks and having his worst game as a Bengal and the Jets being in it and Tyrod Taylor having a chance late in this game.

Starting point is 00:15:47 Like how does that go? What's that path? Well, I think this defensive front versus the Bengals offensive line, I think that's a huge part of it. Because if the Bengals can't run the ball and Joe Flacco turns it over a few times, which he hasn't done yet, but I assume it's going to happen at some point, then this could be one of those games. And I don't overlook anyone. And you look at the path. And I certainly think that that's the path to the Jets, not just being competitive, but winning on Sunday. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:16:16 And I think as we know, Flacco for what he does bring to the table is not particularly mobile. Now, there was a Thursday night game late in 2023 when the Jets played the Browns, and I talked about how Flacco could not make plays from outside the pocket. And, of course, in that game, I think he had more passing yards from outside the pocket in the first half than he had at any other point in any other full game in his career. So I heard a lot about that. And I was kind of like, come on, it's Joe Flacco, like who could have seen him making a lot of plays outside the pocket. But, you know, that was an abnormal game. I think you're absolutely right that any path to the Jets pulling off the upset here, requires the defensive line to get pressure to flacco because he's not a guy who can buy a lot of time from outside the pocket.

Starting point is 00:16:59 And that's, you know, if you give him time, he still has the brain. He still seems like his arms still, there's still enough arm where he can pick a defense apart. We saw that against Pittsburgh. But he'd generate pressure on him, you know, late in his career, I think he's actually become more mistake prone than he was earlier in his career. You know, in his Baltimore days, he actually protected the ball pretty well. But a couple of seasons lately in his career, he's had relatively high interception rate. So there is a pathway for the Jets, but they require this defense getting to him and actually being opportunistic, which is not something they've been most of the season.

Starting point is 00:17:34 This is a Jets defense that has struggled to force turnovers. If they want to register the first win of the season, that's got to change in this one, I think. Yeah, for sure. I think the turnover element is such a big factor. By the way, just a quick nugget, Bengal safety, Jordan Battle, has three interceptions. One in each Bengals win. You know, I don't think that's a coincidence that when he's able to get the ball and this Bengals defense is able to force turnovers, it gets the ball back to the offense.

Starting point is 00:18:04 And guess what? They've won those games. When they've struggled to force turnovers, they haven't. And it was wacky in the three game Jake Browning era. There's no doubt. But defensively, and this is what I, another matchup that I just think is so. intriguing. This Bengals' defense was awful last week. They were awful. They forced a couple of turnovers in the first half, but they could not get off the field against Aaron Rogers.

Starting point is 00:18:26 Aaron Rogers finds Pat Friamuth for a 68-yard touchdown with just over two minutes to go. And whether it's big plays, whether it's getting gassed in the run, missed tackles, like Breeze Hall can play now. Like there's guys there that can play and make plays if you're, if you don't know how to do basic things like tackle. And so I do think that that, this defense going up against Taylor and, you know, and Breece Hall and like, can you do the basic things well? I'll be looking for that on Sunday for this Bengals unit. Well, James, there's no remedy for a struggling defense like facing the Jets offense.

Starting point is 00:19:04 That's been true for much of the season. I mean, the Jets of the face, there have been so many times I've done these crossover shows through the first eight weeks of the season where my colleague tells me their defense is struggling and they go in and they dominate the Jets offense. It's going to be tough for the Jets because Garrett Wilson's probably not going to play in this game. This is a receiver group where the number one guy without Garrett Wilson is probably Josh Reynolds, who I think if you're generous, is a low-end number three receiver.

Starting point is 00:19:29 And this has been an ongoing topic on lockdown Jets for months that the Jets really mishandled the wide receiver position this off season. They gave Garrett Wilson absolutely no support. I think that the key matchup I have when the Jets have the ball is going to be Olufashnu versus Trey Hendrickson. because the state of the Jets wide receiver position is such that nobody's going to be able to break open immediately. I mean, I don't care who the Bengals are playing in their secondary. These Jets receivers cannot separate initially. So that means that Tyrod Taylor is going to have to be able to spend some time in the pocket. And part of this is going to, he's going to have to use his mobility to buy time.

Starting point is 00:20:07 But the Jets can't have a situation where Trey Hendrickson has a big game. Olu Faschen, who's a second year guy out of Penn State, he was the Jets first round pick a year ago. He hasn't been awful this year, but I think this season has been a little bit disappointing. He's definitely had some games where there have been hiccups and pass protection, and this is going to be a major test for him. You know, again, talking about what's the path to an upset for the Jets? It's, it cannot involve Trey Hendrickson taking over this game. And I think he's got the potential to do that.

Starting point is 00:20:36 I think, you know, the Jets game plan really has to focus on him and give Fashtonu extra help. Yeah, I totally agree. That's the one guy on the Bengals defense that you're, like, man, can't let him take over. DJ Turner's been great at Corner recently. But plenty to discuss here as we continue to analyze the paths to victory for the Jets and the Bengals. We'll do that coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Mazda.

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Starting point is 00:22:07 bath or a game ball at Paycourt Stadium on Sunday? I have three things that I think the Jets need to do. Number one is don't forget you're allowed to run the football. And I say that somewhat sarcastically because the second half, of the game against Carolina. Tyrod Taylor's in there. You have your backup quarterback who got none of the first team reps all week. You have the receiver group I described where you have Josh Reynolds,

Starting point is 00:22:33 Tyler Johnson, Ari and Smith and Alan Lazard out there, and the Jets ran the ball four times in the entire second half of a close game. And that's even exaggerating it because two of the four runs were Tyrod Taylor scrambles. The Jets completely abandoned the run game in the second half. And it did not make a lot of sense. You have the quality running back in Breece Hall. The number two guys, Isaiah Davis, who was a late round pick a year ago, it's unclear how much Isaiah Davis can offer, but he runs hard.

Starting point is 00:23:03 You know, he's shown some flashes. So, you know, when your passing game is as challenged as the Jets is, you can't abandon the run game the way they did. There have been a couple other games where they've gotten away from the run, but those were games where they were down multiple scores in the second half. That game against Carolina was never more than a 10-point game, and the Jets just stopped running the ball. They stopped trying to run the ball.

Starting point is 00:23:22 it really did not make a lot of sense. My number two key is you have to utilize the non-wide receivers in your passing game. That means the running backs, Breeze Hall, and Isaiah Davis, you know, you've got to get to the screen game. You've got to utilize them, try and create favorable matchups for them, even if that's sticking them in the slot occasionally. It also means utilizing Mason Taylor, the rookie tight end, because, as I mentioned, the receiver group is what it is. you're not going to get a lot of production from these guys at the wide receiver position. And my third key is you've got to be opportunistic on defense. And that means, as we discussed a little bit earlier, getting into Flacco's face and

Starting point is 00:24:04 helping you force some errant throws. And if players are there to be made, you have to make them. In week one, when the Jets lost to the Steelers, they dropped two potential interceptions off Aaron Rogers. They catch either of them. They probably win the game. It also means, you know, going for the football, you know, trying to strip the ball out. with a team as offensively challenged as the Jets will be

Starting point is 00:24:23 with this lack of firepower on offense, you have to figure out ways to produce short field. Now, part of that could come on special teams where the Jets have been a pretty good return team the last couple of weeks, but I think this defense has to produce turnover situations, but also convert them because Jets, I mean, I think fumble recovery rate's kind of random.

Starting point is 00:24:43 A lot of it comes down to luck, but the Jets have had a really pet fumble recovery rate this year, and they have not converted when they've had opportunities to pick the past. toss off. So I think those are three things the Jets absolutely have to do to win the game. Yeah, I think there's a path. And for the Bengals, the number one thing is to eliminate that path early. Like if you have a team like this that's making a quarterback change and there's so much uncertainty, well, they scored on seven of their last eight possessions last week against the

Starting point is 00:25:12 Steelers, like scoring your first four this week. Like just make it so, and that might be field goals. I'm not saying they're going to go up 28, nothing or anything. But like, can you, can you midway through the second quarter being commanded the game, where it's 10 to 3 or 10 nothing or 13 to 3? That's not something that Bengals have done really at any point this year, super consistently, even last week. They didn't have any points midway through the second quarter, and they were down 10-0.

Starting point is 00:25:39 So they haven't scored a first quarter touchdown in well over a month, John. And so doing that, especially in a matchup like this, where you don't want the Jets to start believing midway through the game or whatever. And you know how that can be in the league because that certainly happens regularly. I think that's big. And then outside of that, I think it's two things. It's one on offense, can you continue to be explosive on the run game? They had runs of 37 yards and 28 yards last week from Chase Brown.

Starting point is 00:26:09 He averaged over nine yards of carry. He's not going to do that every week. I get that. But a couple of explosive runs go a long way toward opening things up. And now you have to account for the run. You have to think about Chase Brown. And, well, there's that guy named Jamar Chase on one side, T. Higgins on the other. And that just gives Joe Flacco a lot of answers to the test.

Starting point is 00:26:29 And so the explosive run part of it, not just running it effectively, but being explosive a couple of times a game, I think, is big. And then the third one, and you handed at it last segment is Trey Hendrickson. One, you need Trey. Two, you got to get pressure on Tyrod Taylor. You got to make him uncomfortable. You got to make sure that he doesn't have all day to throw. Aaron Rogers had 8.6 seconds to throw on his first touchdown pass last week, 8.6 seconds. Like, I don't care if it's Tyrant Taylor.

Starting point is 00:26:59 I don't even just it. It doesn't matter who it is. If you give him 8.6 seconds, at some point he's going to find someone and make a play. And that's a huge factor here is this pass rush. And it's going to be a huge topic, not just Sunday, but moving forward. but can they be steady, be consistent? They didn't have Trey Hendricks on last week. They're hopeful this week.

Starting point is 00:27:21 But regardless, Trey, no Trey, you can't give Taylor eight plus seconds to throw. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head on all of your points, James. I think especially the one about, you know, can the Bengals take control of this game early? Because, you know, as you know, it's a cliche, any given Sunday. The Jets may be 0 and 7, but in four of the games, they were right there. You know, the four of the games could have swung on, could have swung on. on one play. And, you know, so much of once, so much about one score games coming down, sometimes comes down to a lucky break. If you let a team, like the Jets stay in, eventually they're

Starting point is 00:27:53 going to steal a game. I know a lot of Jets fans are cynical now. You hear a lot of talk about how they're going to go 0 and 17. I don't think they're going to go 0.17. I think at one point, a close game is going to swing their way. So, you know, when you have a chance to get a team like the Jets down, you have to take it. If you let them hang around, that could be the week where they finally pull one out in the last minute. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And that's, that's it. That's what it is.

Starting point is 00:28:18 I mean, from a Bengals perspective, I said it last week. It's a must win. This week, you better win because you just, you have to handle business against the Jets if you're going to be a playoff team. And if you don't, like, it completely shifts the conversation to, oh, well, this, this team. It was fun. It was a fun few weeks. Flacco fun, but that's, that's it versus, oh, well, you're back to four and four. You're two and one with Joe Flacco.

Starting point is 00:28:44 And who knows? So it's big in that sense. And it's certainly something that we'll be covering on Locked On Bengals that John will have you covered on on Locked On Jets as well. We certainly appreciate you watching, appreciate you listening. And until next time for John Butchco, I'm James Rappeen. Thank you so much for tuning into a special week eight crossover edition of Locked on Jets and Locked on Bengals.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals Face New York Jets in Possible Joe Flacco REVENGE GAME

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