Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals finally bring a win home from Cleveland

Starting point is 00:00:00 For the first time since 2017, the Bengals bring home a win from Cleveland. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rapine. We are part of the Lockdown Podcast Network here on Lockdown Bengals, covering your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:35 we're on YouTube, where everywhere you get your podcast. Bengals won a football game in Cleveland. Everything's going well. Welcome back to the everydayers. Welcome back to those of you who make us your first listen. We appreciate all of you who have made us part of your routine very much, no matter where you watch or listen. And if you're new, you can subscribe, no matter where you watch or listen to stay up to date

Starting point is 00:00:55 on all things Bengals. And James, you are really close in your prediction for this game. As our everydayers would recall, I think you were at 24, 3.3. and is that, am I remembering your score for that? 2313, 2313. And it darn well should have been. It would have been right there if Evan had came through for me and he didn't. We don't need to focus too much on Evan McPherson today,

Starting point is 00:01:21 although that will be a topic of conversation at some point in the next 48 hours, perhaps. We'll see if we circle back to the Evan McPherson topic in greater depth. But the Bengals do enough. for the second straight week to come out of a win where you're not feeling great about it, but they've stacked wins. And that kind of goes to Joe Burrow being asked after the game. Like, are you concerned about the way the offense is going in these games? And he's like, well, we're 2 and 0 in these games when we've been Rocky.

Starting point is 00:01:54 And when we were going well, we were losing all the games. So except for the one against Carolina. So it goes back to the idea that, you know, beggars can't be. choose those kind of thing they need to win the game first they made the place to win the game even though it wasn't very pretty at least on the offensive side of the ball what's your big take away from the game they won a game they had to win they get a win in cleveland is there but there for you or is that kind of no no if you listen maybe you're a first time listener and if so awesome hit that subscribe button on youtube follow wherever you get your podcast

Starting point is 00:02:31 but every dayers know that this is what i expect It was going to be ugly. And did I expect 0 for 6 on third down in the first half? No, maybe not. Maybe not that. But I didn't expect this to be a track meet. And I thought that there would be some back and forth and some annoying moments and some frustrating times and frustrating decisions or punts or insert whatever.

Starting point is 00:02:58 But the bottom line, and you let it off with, they haven't won here since 2017. The last time I was here, they lost 24 to 3 just a day after Joe Burrow had officially signed that contract extension. The time before that, it was 41 to 16 Halloween night, and it's just crushing loss. You lose Chittobail-Wusia. Now, they responded the right way, but this has always been a pivot point for the Bengals where it's like, oh, man, didn't go well.

Starting point is 00:03:35 They got to fix this or do this. And so, all right, well, yeah, do they need to clean some stuff up? Absolutely. But did they win? Did they get to three and four? Are they one in one in the division? Have they won in Cleveland for the first time since 2017? Yes, yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:03:53 So there's plenty of time to focus on the stuff that we're going to focus on. But they did get a win today, and that is huge. because that's really the only option they had to keep their season alive. If they lost to that Browns team, then that's it. It is. And despite them struggling through it, I never really felt like they were in danger of losing the game, which is a, it might say something about the Browns too, but it also says something about the Bengals.

Starting point is 00:04:22 They didn't unravel. They kept their composure on offense. The defense stepped up and played pretty darn well, I would say, and they got to win. So I'm still encouraged by today, even though there's going to be plenty of ugly that we talk about. It's still a win. And a win is a win, Jake. And I know you love that saying. So I'll say it again, a win is a win.

Starting point is 00:04:46 Yeah, I don't know what the third is a win is for. I get a win as a win. I don't know what the third. Because people say it, a win is a win. I don't know what the third one is for. I don't know what I say it a third time. Just for emphasis. It's because if they win next week, very ugly, it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:05:01 It's still a win. and then it would be three in a row. Well, so you're coming to us from the future. The one moment in this game where I was feeling like things were touch and go, you said you were never really worried that the Bengals were going to lose this game was in and out of the half. The Browns go down and score 12 play, 78 yards, going into the half. The Bengals have an opportunity to put together a minute-long drive

Starting point is 00:05:21 to try to get some points back. They don't. And that ends with an incomplete pass from Joe Bird to T. Higgins on third and eight. Maybe T. Higgins was held on that play. but either way, that is also the drive where they pick up the DPI flag on Jemar Chase, which is very clearly a DPI and a terrible decision. Did you see the official that was the head official today, head referee? Yeah, we don't like to say his name.

Starting point is 00:05:53 He did his thing. The penalty balance actually did favor the Bengals overall, incidentally. But it was that series where the Browns go 12. play 78 yards into the half and then come out of the half and get down to a fourth and two from the Bengals 35 before Dorian Thompson Robinson throws incomplete when he's pressured on fourth and two. It was that moment. And then the Bengals answered with a touchdown and interception on the next drive and a touchdown a drive later. They didn't score off the interception, which was frustrating. They go play three plays three yards to the Cleveland 40 and then punt from the 40.

Starting point is 00:06:29 and that was frustrating. And that featured the Joe Burrow third and eight audible to a running play for Zach Moss that gets bottled up from Miles Garrett on backside pursuit for one yard instead of, you know, Burrow throwing the ball to try to pick up the first down. One of the frustrating moments for the offense,

Starting point is 00:06:46 but then they score another touchdown is 21 to 6. And at that point, late in the game with Dorian Thompson, Robinson, struggling with the defense, as you said, playing at a pretty high level. They have two takeaways. They get a fourth downstop. They get pressure to the quarterback consistently

Starting point is 00:06:58 throughout the game taking advantage of a bad Brown's offensive line, then you felt pretty good about things. The onside kick remains the lowest percentage play in football. Not a whole lot of stress around that, but still it didn't have to be that stressful. So there's this big picture topic of yes, they won. That is the most important thing. But for me, there is a but again, this week as it was last week. And it's, do they have to turtle so hard into kicking a 50-yard field goal there? I understand the rationale. I do. You want to run clock. You want to save Joe Burrow from potentially getting hit where Cody Ford is really struggling in replacing Orlando Brown at left tackle. I do get all that. But playing for and missing a 50-yard field goal after getting that interception where you could

Starting point is 00:07:43 instead try to gain some yards at some point, try to ice the game and really ice the game, get a couple first downs. Maybe you can kneel it out there. I would like that to be different. I understand why it was the way it was this week. But it's another. feather in the cap or whatever of the Zach Taylor approach to finishing game sometimes. Sure. I get that. And you got to get points there. I mean, as weird as it is, they didn't get eight points on either of their turnovers.

Starting point is 00:08:12 They didn't get eight points on either of their turnovers. The Sam Hubbard interception or that one. And that one definitely stands out. You want to. And man, it has been a theme. And it's worse when the field goal misses, right? It just is. One is two missed 50 plus yarders that are notable, right, in recent history that make it really stand out.

Starting point is 00:08:35 Yeah. And at least with that one, I'm trying to think what was the, was it just three straight, it was three straight runs, I assume. Today? On that one, because I'm, because the other one that was kind of wild to me, it was third and seven on the Hubbard. And they, they ran it, or after the Hubbard interception. And they ran it third and seven, Miles Garrett, comes backside and makes the play. And it's like, well, dang. And then they end up punning. Yeah. It's like, well, if you get four yards, you're probably attempting a field goal and trying

Starting point is 00:09:07 to get points there. And so, yeah, I get that. And let's continue with this. Because I think there's more there. There's certainly a lot of different storylines. I have some injury updates that I don't think anyone else has or has put out there, at least with Orlando Brown Jr. so we can do all of that coming up next. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Halloween lets us have fun with what scares us, but sometimes fear isn't fun, and we have fears that don't involve zombies and ghosts

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Starting point is 00:11:20 edu slash locked on to enroll there's no cost and it's easy to get started hillsdale.edu slash locked on to register hillsdale.edu slash locked on. James let's get to those injury updates you've got before we get too far away from the start of the show because it was unexpected good news at least as I interpreted what I heard but you said you have something that I haven't seen so I'm curious to hear yeah yeah well let's start with Orlando Brown Jr. Did you know that it's not as neat? I didn't know that it was his knee in the first place. I guess I thought that it was some sort of lower extremity issue.

Starting point is 00:11:58 I don't know if I knew. Well, the Bengals said it was a knee. So everyone knows it's a knee, but it's not a knee. It's his calf. Okay. He's dealing with a calf issue. He's going to undergo an MRI on Monday. And so we'll see.

Starting point is 00:12:11 But overall, not his knee. Good thing. If I had to guess, I would say he has some kind of calf strain. And so we'll see. but overall the fact that he was able to return to the sideline, it's not a knee. Maybe he misses some time. Maybe he doesn't.

Starting point is 00:12:27 I think the MRI is kind of dependent there. But I think that's positive news. And then the Gino Stone stuff, you've probably seen a lot of people probably have. Told me he was good. I talked to him in the locker room and could have walked off the field. They did all of that as a precaution more than anything. And I did see him.

Starting point is 00:12:44 I was downstairs by the Bengals locker room after he got carted off. And I saw him. I mean, he tried to put weight on it after that, and they didn't want him to. But at the end of things, after undergoing, I assume, an x-ray, he was putting weight on it in the locker room, got dressed, was limping. But overall, I think bullet dodged with both of these guys from a super serious injury standpoint. That doesn't mean they won't miss some time. I think both guys could miss time. Again, we don't know yet.

Starting point is 00:13:15 But I don't think that either one is super serious. I mean, with Gino, you thought he's season ending. Like, I think a lot of people did in real time. And so it doesn't feel like that's the case. It looked like broken leg. Yeah. It looked like knee to shin, leg snapped, aircast. Like, you didn't necessarily see the leg snap, luckily, I guess because it didn't.

Starting point is 00:13:38 But with the aircast, with the carting off the field, it looked extremely serious. So glad to hear both of those updates for those guys. I think both somewhat critical. I think that Gino Stone made a play in this game, right? Had an interception gift wrapped and delivered right to him, which is nice to see for him. But I do think that he was starting to play a little bit better. And maybe some of that is the offenses have been playing against, but starting to settle into his role, I think, a little bit in this defense.

Starting point is 00:14:05 Did you want to jump in there before I pivot to Orlando? Yeah, nice coverage on the trick play to Chubb to Watson. Yeah. Gino got there and even a perfect throw. I mean, it felt like it was a double team. It wasn't it, but he got there in time. So I think that that was a really nice play. But the Orlando one, he's a huge man,

Starting point is 00:14:25 but it would be a huge, huge, huge, huge loss to not have him for any amount of time. Well, especially next week, but definitely any amount of time. I mean, it's not like the Raiders zone of a pass rush with Max Crosby, right? You want to have your best tackles out there for that game too, but the Eagles are notorious for investing in their defensive line and getting after the passer, and they've done that this year. You want to have Orlando Brown for that game. You ideally have Orlando Brown at that game at least like 95% health because he's been awesome this year,

Starting point is 00:14:54 especially in past protection, the Bengals protection in this game early in this game when he was in the game was awesome. And they had other issues on offense at that point, but Orlando Brown was not that issue. When Cody Ford entered the game, it was a disaster rep after rep after left tackle. And I know Zach Taylor offered his. praise for Cody Ford stepping up. And I know Miles Garrett is really good, and he's going to do that to most backup tackles in the NFL.

Starting point is 00:15:17 But I do not believe that they can survive with Cody Ford at left tackle. I mean, maybe they can steal a game. And that might be what they're looking at. Hopefully it's not. But it was not good at left tackle when Cody Ford had to enter the game and play there. Even though they kind of managed it, right? They called the game around it. They scored some touchdowns with Cody Ford at tackle.

Starting point is 00:15:39 They had a two touchdowns. We're what's boarded. Yeah. And they found some plays there. This is a coaching staff that has dealt with calling around an in the offensive line in the past. But that is a situation that I would be looking quickly to rectify if I were this Bengals front office, even if Orlando Brown can play this week, I would be looking to get

Starting point is 00:16:01 better there just because of what we've seen from Cody Ford has not been up to the level that I would like to see for your backup tackle this year after the Trent Brown season ender. Yeah. And we'll see. We'll see what they do, what the vibes are there. Hopefully Orlando's okay. So we're like 16 minutes into the show and talked about fast start all week long

Starting point is 00:16:21 and YouTube comments made fun of me because, of course, you want to start fast every week. But they started as fast as you can literally start. And we haven't touched on Charlie Jones yet. We probably should. Yeah, I mean, that's the bright spot of the game. I would say, I mean, the defense, of course. but to get that your first kickoff touchdown a kickoff return for a touchdown since 2020 100 yarder breaking tackles to do it like he was caught he got caught and still was able to stay in

Starting point is 00:16:55 bounds and find his way across the goal line I thought that was just one heck of a return and it really gave the offense which was ugly in the first half really really ugly it gave them a little a little leash, a little comfort. It comfort's the wrong word, but a little wiggle room for sure to set the tone like that. So huge play by him. Bengals were plus 10 on special teams plays in the first four drives of the game, two drives for each team. The Brown's missing a field goal.

Starting point is 00:17:23 The Bengals taking the opening kickoff for a touchdown. They might not win the game without taking that opening kickoff for a touchdown. And your chances of winning a game when you score a touchdown, the first kickoff of the game are very high, as Jay Moore. and has chronicled in the past when looking at some of Jay's stats, which I'm sure you can find if you go search for them on Twitter. But massive play for Charlie Jones, who also had a nice pump return in this game.

Starting point is 00:17:47 And the Bengals had a huge special team's edge early in this game, from pending the Browns in bad field position to some nice returns, to the Browns missing a field goal. But outside of that, in terms of scoring, in terms of offensive playmakers, We're talking about, I think, Joe Burroughs' second worst game of the year, most likely. He did make a couple of plays, but I think he was better last week than this week. And I think that you'd have to go back to week one for a game that I think he'd played anything close to this level.

Starting point is 00:18:19 And you can win with this when you can set possessions on fire against a bad offense like the Browns. I do think that it will need to be better going forward. But the reason they were able to make the plays on offense is because Jamar Chase and T. Higgins are dudes. And Chase Brown ripped off a couple of nice plays. Zach Moss also should get credit for his catch and run when he was uncovered in the flat for 19 yards on their touchdown drive. But it was their skill players stepping up and helping to make plays when, for the most part, the offense was getting clamped. And this is a bit of a worrisome trend here. We're in a three-game stretch where it was Shane Bowen last week with the Giants who previously gave this offense in Burrow and Taylor issues with Tennessee.

Starting point is 00:18:59 who was Schwartz this week, who's given the Bengals issues during his time in Cleveland. Next week is Vic Fangio in that Philadelphia Eagles defense. And Fangio, you have to go all the way back to 2021 when the Bengals played in Denver, and were held to 15 points in another ugly game for the offense. And you need to see the offense do a little bit more. I know they're winning, and that's great.

Starting point is 00:19:19 You need to see the offense do a little bit more and capitalize on these performances from the defense I've gotten in the last couple of weeks. For sure. And that's going to have to start. Next week. I mean, because you're going up against a really good offense, high-end offense. From a skill talent standpoint.

Starting point is 00:19:37 Now, have they performed that way all year? No, but it's not like it's going to be the trio of quarterbacks you saw today, where the Browns make a wild decision by making James Winston the emergency third quarterback. This whole game feels different. They don't do that. They did that for Watson's mental minds. I don't know. It was just a crazy decision.

Starting point is 00:19:59 before this game and it obviously impacted it with Watson's injury. Let's hit on some more, some positive, some negatives. We will continue our conversation coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Fandul. Fandall is America's number one sportsbook. And you've got to get the Fandul right now, right now, because it's Bengals, it's Eagles next week, and you can get a big return, like Chuck Sizzle style return with Fandle.

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Starting point is 00:21:04 well, a lot more consistent than they've been in the last couple of games. And I do think there is a play calling issue. And when I say that I'm saying that I think they are getting got too often with route concepts running into the teeth of zones. And you can go back to the first half and they're getting good protection. And Joe Burroughs pulling the ball down for some examples of that. That's either Burrow not seeing it well, not getting what he's expected, expecting or its receivers not getting open or it's Taylor and Burrow putting them in a bad

Starting point is 00:21:29 position. And you can certainly look at that third and eight audible to a run that we've talked about a couple of times in the show for an example of not getting to the right play at the right time. And I put that one on Burrow. That is something that needs to be better going forward. But we've talked also about taking advantage of strong defensive performances. And the Bengals did get another one of those this week, led by Trey Hendrickson, of course, which PFF had him charted at nine pressures in this game. He had two sacks and had the intentional grounding, which might as well have been a third sack effectively, a monster game for Trey Hendrickson feasting on a matchup that we expected him to. But overall, outside of a few blemishes,

Starting point is 00:22:10 I think you have to be generally pleased with this Bengals defense today. They did benefit from some bad quarterback play, but you can only play the team that's across the field from you, and those guys made plays. You had the two turnovers. You had the turnover on downs. overall, you have to be pleased with this defense. I mean, totally bottling up the run game for the Browns for one. The running backs averaging somewhere in the twos per carry. So what's it out to you on the defensive side of the ball? Yeah, exactly that.

Starting point is 00:22:39 It starts with making sure Nick Chubb can celebrate his return next week. And so you hold him to two yards of carry. He got the touchdown. But his long was five yards. You take that all day long. And just looking up and down this defense, Jermaine Pratt, 13 tackles in a quarterback hit. Logan Wilson, 10 tackles.

Starting point is 00:22:59 Gino Stone, you mentioned him? Interception, of course, big. Pass defense, big. Also had seven tackles. Mike Hilton, I thought, played really well, especially against the run. And the thing that from weeks three to five, especially that you weren't getting,

Starting point is 00:23:15 was anyone outside of Trey Hendrickson making quarterbacks uncomfortable. Well, Sam Hubbard has the interception. We remember that. Also had a sack. Sheldon Rankins, his first sack in a Bengals uniform. I just, I think this defense is being, is looking much more like the unit we expect it. And that doesn't mean they're not going to give up points or they're not going to give up big plays.

Starting point is 00:23:38 Like they are, but they're also going to make plays. And that's the element that we've seen is they need to go make plays and they've done that the past couple of weeks. And they'll have to continue to do that. And if you do and you're not having 15. miss tackles every week and you're able to do those things just the fundamental things it'll go your way like with sam hubbard it'll go your way miles murphy in the red zone had a really nice uh nice play where he's dropping into coverage and he did the seat he did the seat belt celebration after i think it was david and joku or whoever it was thrown to but uh just

Starting point is 00:24:16 pretty funny to see miles murphy do that so i do i think this defense the depth feels much better now that they have their guys that are healthy in the trenches. And we're seeing that. They're playing much better. Yeah, I think that there obviously are some things to clean up. There always are much easier to do those, as we say, after a win. But overall, I think you need to be encouraged by the defensive line, primarily B.J. Hill turning in another nice game, Sam Hubbard.

Starting point is 00:24:42 You mentioned the interception, but was outside of the RP or the read option where Dorian Thompson takes it for an explosive carry. I thought he was pretty good overall. They still have a good rotation working with Sam Hubbard out there. BJ Hill and Trey Hendrickson is still playing a ton, but they're rotating Sam Hubbard significantly more than they have in the past, and that's Miles Murphy getting a 34 snap workload. That's Joseph O'Sai getting a 30 snap workload,

Starting point is 00:25:08 and those guys getting some pressure to the quarterback, the overall pressure rate on Brown's quarterbacks in this game before garbage time, somewhere around 34, 35%, which is a solid clip, and certainly had some game wrecking stuff there, including, you know, several sacks that essentially ended drives. The Bengals getting off the field quite a lot in this game. But how about this for a stat? Not that I say this to despair, the defense,

Starting point is 00:25:36 which I think was mostly good in this game, allowing just 4.4 yards per play. But if I had told you the Bengals were going to go 2 for 13 on third downs and the Browns are going to go 8 for 19 on third downs in this game before the game, would you have expected this outcome? Because that is one that really stands out to me as, a weird stat in an otherwise clean game for the defense. Yeah, I think part of it is they just,

Starting point is 00:26:00 they racked up a few at the end. I think at one point, does that math track hold on? I thought at one point they were three of 14. Maybe I'm wrong on that because if they're eight of 19, yeah, no. So that's what it was. They converted their five straight in the fourth quarter, probably when James Winston came into the game,

Starting point is 00:26:21 I bet, five third downs or something. like that. James converted, he converted four in a row on his try. Yeah. So there you go. So the numbers do,

Starting point is 00:26:31 like when you say it like that, I'd be like, nah, that's, that's, you're in trouble. But a lot of that was, it was garbage time

Starting point is 00:26:37 when they're up to scores. And it should have been 24 to 6 at that point. So at the same time, you don't want that to be the case. And I think it does reflect on the offense as much as anything. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:51 Finishing games. is going to continue to be a topic, I think, just finding that put-away drive at some point, even if it's in the first half, converting one of those drives at some point. One more drive from the offense, I feel totally different about this game. But as it was,

Starting point is 00:27:09 they had two drives, really, for the entire game. Well, yeah, especially after that Charlie Jones return, and then you get the three and out. And it's like, all right, you're, yeah, but you're, Yeah, but you're right there. Like you can really take advantage of it and go up 14-0. And they just didn't do that.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Yeah. Some opportunities in this game to find those answers. They found them in the second half. They did enough in the second half. Their first touchdown in the game comes after the Cleveland Browns, turn it over on downs with their first drive of the second half. So you take that. Certainly some room for improvement there.

Starting point is 00:27:46 But you shout out the guys that made the plays, of course, that helped you win the game. That's Jamar Chase. That's T. Higgins. That's Chase. all those guys stepping up. That's Charlie Jones with the kickoff return for the touchdown, the nice punt return.

Starting point is 00:27:58 That's the defensive players we've talked about making plays, finding those turnovers, Gino Stone, collecting an interception thrown right to him. But he did the job and he made the interception and he brought the ball back quite a ways to get the Bengals into some good field position there. So it's as much as you could really ask for from those guys. Trey Hendrickson taking over the game on the defensive side of the ball to help things quite a bit there as well. and when you have those guys out there that they have right now on the defensive line,

Starting point is 00:28:25 you definitely feel night and day about that unit compared to a few weeks ago when we were looking at a team that had guys playing May and share of snaps that aren't playing at all in NFL games at this point. So some improvements there. We'll keep an eye on the health of Gino Stone, of course, for this defense that's looking to continue to stack performances. And we'll have more to talk about from this game, some big picture things. that we can maybe get into as this week goes on

Starting point is 00:28:53 and we turn our attention to the Philadelphia Eagles coming to Cincinnati next week. But that's going to do it for this post-game show here on Lockdown Bengals. Until next time, thanks for listening. Ho-Day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals finally bring a win home from Cleveland

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