Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals searching for veteran depth on defense, sign practice squad RB instead - but wildcard hopes remain alive (for now)!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Monday was not a good day for the optics for the Cincinnati Bengals front office. Let's get into the vet workouts and signings that didn't happen. And despite all that, the Bengals remained in the AFC playoff picture. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Well, I'm Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm Jake Liskow. He's James Rapine.

Starting point is 00:00:33 And we are Locked on Bengals, part of the Lockdown podcast that we're covering your team every day. We just finished talking about coaches being on the hot seat for the Cincinnati Bengals. And now we need to talk more because we talked about the front office yesterday as well, more about the front office as it was not a good day, at least from the outside looking in as they brought some veterans in for workouts and just signed a practice squad running back as of the time of us recording this episode. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by Ultimate Football GM, where you can use promo code Locked on NFL, all word, one word, all caps in the game store to get a big boost to your franchise when you start up. James, we want to shout out the everydayers as we always do. We want to shout out all of you who make us your first listen and welcome in the new listeners

Starting point is 00:01:21 as we're going to take some time today to, well, I guess talk about the front office in the middle of the season, as we have for the last few weeks, as we did leading into the three, trade deadline. The Bengals hosted Zavian Howard and Leonard Burnett, among other veterans reportedly for workouts on Monday. And as of the time of us recording this episode, we know that they made an offer to Xavier and Howard and that the two sides were unable to reach an agreement. Yeah. And let's just say it all out loud, right? So Zavian Howard is a 31-year-old former all-pro cornerback that hasn't been in the NFL this season, spent his entire career up to this point with the Miami-Dauvin. And I've been, offense, Lou Aniruma was in Miami when they drafted him in 2016 with the 38th overall pick.

Starting point is 00:02:07 So there's a natural tie. And over the years I've written, when Xavier and Howard was an all-pro corner and reportedly available to now, like, oh, yeah, Xavier and Howard makes a lot of sense. And so on the surface, and this is something we heard little rumblings about last week, I think is fair to say. It's like, oh, well, this should get done. Assuming he has a solid workout, they'll bring him in and bolster their cornerback depth and it didn't get done despite him having a solid workout according to to mike garifalo now

Starting point is 00:02:39 that's coming from the agent full disclosure we know that but he had a solid workout and uh that that zavians headed home so why wouldn't a deal get done and i think that's that's where you when you mention optics it gets to there's no way zavian howard has a bunch of negotiating power he hasn't gone on a bunch of workouts in recent weeks. It doesn't feel like he's got any leverage. And he probably, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up starting here pretty early. Like I don't think he would have came in and just been your fifth cornerback. I think he would have gotten playing time and you could easily see a path to him making an impact if he still has something left.

Starting point is 00:03:22 So if he did well in the workout and they made him an offer, where's the disconnect here why he is not a Bengal today? I was expecting at one point today, Jake, that they were going to get a deal done. And I think it was probably post-workout before the negotiating part of it went down. But how much negotiating is there with eight games left in the season? He needs to sign somewhere.

Starting point is 00:03:49 You need to sign him. Go get him. I think that's weird. I can't imagine he's looking for a multi-year deal. I don't think that pro-rated differences in money because you're only paying the guy's salary for seven games. They're 10 games into a 17-game season. So it's hurt to imagine. Bad math.

Starting point is 00:04:10 Not eight games left, seven games. Sorry, I got ahead of myself. Good Lord. I think I said eight games before we started recording. So you can blame me. But the money shouldn't have been an issue here. there are some allegations out there of misconduct. Whatever that issue is, when the Bengals bring him in,

Starting point is 00:04:32 they know about that in the first place. So I had some mentions from fans saying, I'm fine, this didn't work out because of the allegations, which is fine. And I didn't know about that before somebody told me about it. So either way, that doesn't really explain the fact that they had him in.

Starting point is 00:04:51 He had a workout that reported. reportedly was good. They made an offer. They were unable to get a dumb, which means they wanted him. And we just spent a lot of time talking about Lou Anirumo yesterday and this defensive staff and this thing where, well, maybe the front office just isn't giving him what he wants.

Starting point is 00:05:11 They let Jesse Bates walk. They let DJ Reader walk. They let Bomb Bell walk. Then they brought Bon Bell back for essentially free. And then they get to this point today where, yeah, they apparently decide they want Savian House. and then can't get the deal done? I mean, we don't know exactly why the deal didn't get done.

Starting point is 00:05:30 There could be a totally reasonable explanation for this. We don't know. But on its face, the optics, which is where I started the show, and you brought up as well, James, you referenced it. The optics of this story seemed embarrassing for the front office. Yeah. What in this veteran who could help them, even if it was just a depth signing,

Starting point is 00:05:52 even if he was just going to be the first corner off the bench. Maybe there wasn't a start job for him. Even if he was just going to be the first corner off the bench, they wanted him to be a Cincinnati Bengal this year because they made him an offer. They couldn't agree to terms with a mid-season straight free agent that they brought him for a workout.

Starting point is 00:06:10 Yeah. It's just such a bad look. And these are the type of deals that are just no-brainers. Like they didn't sign Leonard Four Nett, right? well, if he had a good workout, I'm sure they would have signed. Like if he was really good in that workout, it's not like it's like,

Starting point is 00:06:29 oh, well, they offered him a practice squad spot and he said no, and no, no, no. They offered Xavier and Howard. And wanted him on the roster, I'm confident in that.

Starting point is 00:06:39 And so, yeah, it's, it doesn't feel good. And I think the Lou part of it is the big part of it. Because there's a very real scenario where some of these guys lose their jobs. That's why we did the show we did, yesterday, check it out if you didn't, and you missed it. Where significant coaches on this staff lose their jobs this offseason or in January

Starting point is 00:06:58 if things don't turn around in a hurry. And Lou could be one of those guys. Not saying it's going to happen, but I certainly think there's a path to it. That's why we did the show. And so for something this simple, where we're talking about 1.1 million pro rated over seven games, what? That's zero money, not a lot of money. and if it's something Lou wanted,

Starting point is 00:07:21 all right, well, let's see if it can help. Understanding the fact that there are shortcomings with this team. Understanding, by the way, that, and this was what I was prepared to do, Jay, because I was prepared to say, well, why in the hell did you make this move in November if you were open to Xavier and Howard in the first place? Why would you go after Leonard Fournette in November

Starting point is 00:07:40 if you were open to Leonard Fournette on the practice squad in the first place? These guys could have been here. Xavier Howard's courtship, should have happened at worst after the Daxil injury, would have been my logic. Leonard Fournett, you could have just stashed him on the practice squad for the past few months.

Starting point is 00:07:57 So he is in shape when you do have an injury to a key guy like Zach Moss. So like, that's where the frustrating part of this would have been to me. But now it hits another layer because it's like, all right, well,

Starting point is 00:08:09 we just talk about the coaches. And we clearly know that Lou is shorthanded. And part of that is his fault and guys he targeted or helped target and free agency, fine. but he clearly won Xavier and Howard. So get him Xavier and Howard.

Starting point is 00:08:22 It's like saying, man, I'm starving. Let me get a number five for McDonald's. Like just get the number five. Get the kid a happy meal. Right? That's the big daddy line that half of our viewers probably don't remember. But like that's literally, it's such a small thing. It's not a big thing.

Starting point is 00:08:38 It's not a multi-year deal. It's not a challenging thing. So on its surface, I think people are going to be frustrated and rightfully so. Is there more to it? Probably. But if the workout went well, you were willing to sign them despite all those allegations. You brought them in for the workout. You made them an offer.

Starting point is 00:08:54 The next step is done deal. And we should be seeing Xavier and Howard at practice on Wednesday. And we're not going to be doing that, at least as of now. Add to the pile of frustrations with the front office over the last few years. And there are people wondering why we're not doing, you know, as a front office on the hot seat, well, they own the team. So hot seat with fans. Yeah, obviously. but they control the temperature dial.

Starting point is 00:09:20 You know what I mean? So it's just, it's not a very good look for the team. You reference the McDonald's half meal. It's more like like the $1.50 hot dog from Costco, man. Like in terms of prices we're talking about here. Dang. He said that number five is way too expensive.

Starting point is 00:09:39 I mean, that's what we're talking about from like an NFL financial perspective. Anyway, the Bengals did make a move. As of the time of recording here, it's a relatively minor move. We'll cover that move and wrap up this conversation coming up, Mac. Today's show is brought to you up by Ultimate Pro Football GM. Locked on Bengals fans, you remember Ultimate Pro Football GM. They're back and they have added an amazing new game mode that I have to tell you about.

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Starting point is 00:11:56 by seeing the latest stats, play-by-play, and so much more information in the same place you place your bets. You get started again with $150 in bonus bets when you win that first $5 bet with Vandul at fandul.com, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. The Bengals signed a veteran running back on Monday, but it wasn't Leonard Fournett passing on the former top pick for Gary Brightwell. Jake, did you know who Gary Brightwell was before the Bengals signed him to their practice squad on Monday? Gary Brightwell was a sixth round pick in the 2021 NFL draft out of Arizona, which I did not know before the Bengals signed him. Did you know? The reason that I let it off that way is because I went back and I looked at our 2021 draft spreadsheet to see.

Starting point is 00:12:43 see if we had any notes on them. And of course, in 2021, we did not look at running backs that year. And so we had no information on any of the running backs in that class recorded in our draft spreadsheet, the one that I work on with Joe Goodberry, that you've heard us talk about year over year if you're an every day or if you're a long-time listener. So, no, we did not have any information on Gary Brightwell going to the draft. And I don't think that anyone outside of New York or Cleveland would be terribly aware of Brightwell besides, you know, you know, people with a personal interest in his career because he's been a special teamer throughout his career.

Starting point is 00:13:19 His most heavy workload as an offensive player in the NFL came in 2022 with the New York Giants. I think he had 32 carries for something like 4.7 yards per attempt that year with the Giants on offense. That was also his heaviest year of special teams use. He had 323 of his 637 career special team snaps in at 2022. He had 20 special teams. snaps with the Cleveland Browns this year. So he'll be on the Bengals practice squad. Good size. 218.

Starting point is 00:13:49 He was 218 at the Combine as well. He's listed at 6-1, depending on where you look. He at the Combine was shorter than 5-Eleven, so I don't know where the 6-1 listing is coming from, or maybe they just measured him really wrong at the Combine in 2021. But there's good size there with Wrightwell. Didn't test like a great athlete. And I knew none of this, James, to answer your question before the Bengals. signed him to the practice squad on Monday.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Yeah, I think there's a couple of things here. One, I'm fine with the Chase Brown, Khalil Herbert won two punch. Two, adding a guy like Gary Brightwell doesn't make me less worried about the running back room if Chase Brown gets hurt.

Starting point is 00:14:33 Right? Like, it doesn't make, like I know it is depth, but it doesn't feel like depth. It's very much a, all right, well, what are you going to do if something happens? And so, yeah, the size part of it. He's certainly their heaviest running back, unless they trust Kendall Milton, which I would imagine because you bring in a Leonard Fournette, because you work out multiple

Starting point is 00:14:54 veterans, like there's questions there with Kendall Milton, and maybe Milton would have been the one that gets released had you signed a Xavier and Howard, for example. So who knows? Speculating there, but a Brightwell edition, yeah, maybe he'll help on special teams. Maybe he was just that much better in the workout, but you can't really expect him to contribute much on offense if an injury happens. And I was looking up some free agent running back lists when they brought in Leonard Fournett. And I'm just like, all right, well, who else is out there? And to me, like, I get it. You're looking for size. Like, Jerich McKinnon, Boston, Scott. Like, there are guys out there that, to me, would give you a little bit more. And it doesn't have to be.

Starting point is 00:15:41 you know, Lombardi Lennie, playoff Lennie, or whatever you want to call him. So I wouldn't have been necessarily all in with Leonard Fortett. And maybe it's a size thing. They want a bigger back. Fine. They got it and Gary Brightwell. But to me, this is a special teamer that has, he's got 11 career passes. So it's not like he's filling it up there and you feel comfortable with him as a pass catcher.

Starting point is 00:16:00 I just, he's helping Darren Simmons more than he's helping Zach Taylor and Dan pitcher and Joe Burrow. And maybe that's it, I guess. I guess, you know. I don't. Which is fine. if that's their logic yeah it's fine i don't know where they've lost a special teamer though like they've lost zach moss that wasn't a big special teams contributor is there a special teamer that's hurt that i'm eric all wasn't a like primary special teamer he was he still though i don't know what probably

Starting point is 00:16:30 i assume they were phasing him out of that yeah i would assume that that was i mean because he's tied he was tied in one to be very clear so this is is relatively easy to check and i won't work on that. But the reason that I ask is that the running back that he essentially replaces on the depth chart, say he is ahead of Kendall Milton on the depth chart now. Hypothetically. Kendall Milton, in his one game up for the Bengals this year, played zero special team snaps. So like, that's

Starting point is 00:16:59 where I'm looking at. Is there a special teams thing here? Eric Hull was still playing on kickoff return team. That's the only place he was playing. In significant time, he's also on the field goal kick, blocking unit and he was still doing that when he got hurt in week nine i i don't think that you replace ericall with kenny brightwell or gary brightwell sorry in any of those situations what about kenny i was looking at kendall bilton's no i'm just messing with you what about trae williams what if that's the replacement what if it's like all right we need a bigger back around

Starting point is 00:17:35 these two in chase brown and uh calillo herbert and so So we get the bigger back in Gary Brightwell. He can also do the special teams. He can also return kicks. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's the appeal there. And then you can still have Kendall Milton around as a guy who doesn't necessarily need to, you're not banking on to play special teams as he learns the offense,

Starting point is 00:17:57 but you have a guy in Brightwell who can fill that Travion Williams special teams void as RB3. Who knows? Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm foreshadowing a little bit. Credit to you for finding a way to get excited about. Excited? about that well you just you just had the energy there you know what I'm saying and I'm just like all right sure like great you know like the attitude toward it is all sure yeah well you just don't

Starting point is 00:18:22 know the logic and it might be as simple as all right well we want more size there and also special teams experience and so he can be RB3 and do both and maybe that's it I don't know no you know like that's where I'm at it's like we're we're spending this time talking about because they made the move and we're trying to figure out how it fits all that stuff and it's important to figure that out but man they're they're trying they had all these veterans in on monday trying to find a piece that could actually help them and and help even if it's like a very small move of the needle like move the needle a degree you know what i mean like just from from here just just just a tiny little bit and then gary brightwell's the move that we get to talk i will say i will say

Starting point is 00:19:06 when you say it out loud, right? So over the past week, we know that they put in a waiver claim on Yonik and Gacquay. Yeah. They worked out Leonard Fournett. They worked out Xavier and Howard. They worked out Gary Brightwell and they put in a waiver claim on Isaiah Williams. And the trade takes love to make. And I like Isaiah Williams, right?

Starting point is 00:19:26 And so they bring in Isaiah, they win that claim with Isaiah Williams and they signed Gary Brightwell. Those two names out of all the names, yeah, that's rough. And yeah, the trades they tried to make, which we don't know exact on it. But yeah, it does feel a bit underwhelming even for that. I mean, we do know that they were reportedly in on the defensive line and cornerback market in trades. And they traded for a running back, which we also thought they might do because of the Zach Moss injury. But we can at least easily believe that they were trying to make trades for defensive players. And have they signed?

Starting point is 00:20:03 They haven't added a single defensive player since the trade deadline. But Howard and Gaukway could have been it. Yeah, could have been those two. That's what's crazy. Think about it. They could have had three huge names, whether they're still good or not. And you get Gary, aka Jake calls him Kenny Brightwell and Isaiah Williams. That's rough.

Starting point is 00:20:22 By the way, if you had said Kenny Brightwell the entire segment, how many of our listeners would have actually cared? I don't know the answer to that. Not to take anything away from these guys, to be clear. But yeah, go ahead. We're having fun. But yeah, I think despite all of that, the Bengals are still in the playoff race. They got some help on Sunday as well. We will get into that coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:21:50 Again, create an account and redeem code LOCKED. ON NFL, locked on NFL for $20 off. Download game time today. What time is it? Game time. The playoff picture in the AFC really has taken quite a bit of of shape here as we head into week 11 for the Cincinnati Bengals, a big game coming up with another team in the wild card mix in the AFC. But the wild card mix, as it is today, consists

Starting point is 00:22:20 of essentially three teams battling for one spot, barring somebody falling way off. But the wild card standings right now are the Baltimore Ravens, currently the 5C, behind the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Steelers haven't played as many games. is the Ravens. Ravens have lost three games. The Steelers two. They have the same number of wins. The Steelers continue to win games with a level of plot armor this year. And the NFL only surpassed by the Detroit Lions and Kansas City Chiefs. But the Ravens at five in the AFC, the Los Angeles Chargers, a Bengals opponent this week at six in the AFC at six and three. The Denver Broncos at seven at five and five. And they just lost one of those plot armor games,

Starting point is 00:23:02 getting a field goal blocked against the Kansas City Chiefs. The Indianapolis Colts, ahead of the Bengals by tiebreaker, based on win percentage and conference games at eight right now, and the Bengals at nine. The Jets right behind the Bengals at 3 and 7 at 10, but the way you most easily distill this, the most likely path is that one team makes that last wild card spot between the Denver Broncos, Indianapolis,

Starting point is 00:23:25 and Cincinnati Bengals. Yeah, I think they're firmly, still in it and I think fans are going to dismiss that because of how it feels at 4 and 6. You got to get these next two. I think you and I both agree if you go 2 and 1

Starting point is 00:23:43 over the Baltimore, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh stretch, you feel pretty good about your shot, about your chances. Now, it would have been nice to get that first one against Baltimore, stay alive in the division, and I think that those chances are completely dead at this point.

Starting point is 00:24:00 But I don't think, that they're out of this because they are not just on the bubble when CBS or Fox or insert whatever station you're watching shows the playoff picture for the AFC, they're ninth right now. They're right in the mix. And when you have a quarterback and a wide receiver playing at the level that they are and the quarterback part of it is huge, obviously, I don't think that there's any reason to think that they can't go to L.A.

Starting point is 00:24:32 win or go even two and oh against pittsburgh a really good pittsburgh i think it's possible possible might not be plausible or realistic uh at this point but we may feel differently in a few weeks so i'm not willing to dismiss them yet but they better win at so far on sunday night it's that simple i was not very optimistic and i don't think you should be like super optimistic from a realistic perspective that the bengals will make the playoffs but When you tell me that their competition is primarily the Denver Broncos and Indianapolis Colts, because I don't think anyone's buying the New York Jets and New England Patriots right now. It feels a little bit different.

Starting point is 00:25:12 Not quite to the point of optimism, but they have a game against Denver. They have a game against the Chargers. The Chargers are still technically in that wildcar mix. I think the Chargers are good. They have the best scoring defense in the NFL. You go look at who they've played, and the best offense they've played this year is probably Kansas City, and Kansas City is not a good offense this year. But I guess the Arizona Cardinals,

Starting point is 00:25:36 probably the best offense they've played. And they held the Cardinals to 17 points and a 17 to 15 loss in Arizona. But that defense has given up only 118 points this year. And Harbaugh in his first year seems to be getting his team bought in and the schedule has been pretty favorable for them. You know, the Raiders, the Panthers,

Starting point is 00:25:59 the Broncos, the Sanchez, the Saints, the Browns, the Titans, all part of their early season schedule. It gets real for them now with the Bengals and the Ravens and the Falcons and the Chiefs again and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in their next five weeks. So I wouldn't dismiss L.A. as part of that wild card competition for the Bengals, but you can probably dismiss L.A. as part of that wild card competition for the Bengals if they win this week. And if the Bengals can't come home from L.A.

Starting point is 00:26:23 Primetime Sunday Night Football with a win, which, you know, just like every game until they're eliminated, or until such time as they would be eliminated, not saying they will be eliminated, is going to be like huge playoff leverage, huge, you know, playoff percentage if they win, if they lose swing. But they did get a little bit of help. Their playoff odds went up a little bit

Starting point is 00:26:48 with that Denver Broncos loss, and I think the Colts also lost. Right? I did. Over the weekend. And those things helped them a little bit. Yeah. I think if you get five AFC wins,

Starting point is 00:26:59 you certainly feel great. If you get five wins in general, I think you have a real shot. Six, you're in. And so six and one is a tough ask, but you read it out loud, it would be the Chargers, the Broncos, you got to get those two.

Starting point is 00:27:14 One of the Steelers games, there's three, Titans, four, Dallas with no DAC, five. You know, you can add them really quickly and see how it can come together. And we've seen this in the past. The 2013, Bengals were three and six to start the year.

Starting point is 00:27:31 Led by Andy Dalton, or 2012, excuse me, 2012, his second season, led by Andy Dalton. And they rallied and made the playoffs. Different NFL, not a 17 game season. Well, there's much different defense, certainly, but a flawed football team. And they figured it out. And so maybe this team flaws in all finds a way to get to the postseason. I'm not going to miss Joe yet, but I do think that this is the game. Because I think the charges are in the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:27:59 I think they are that good. And so getting a game over them, getting that tiebreaker, and getting an AFC win, which you desperately need some of these AFC wins in general, it will go a long way toward me thinking that they could realistically make a run. Yeah, I mean, from the playoff percentage or playoff standings perspective, they need the AFC wins because that's going to be a tiebreaker that they're going to have to deal with, most likely, if it's not a head-to-head tiebreaker. But also just beating a good team in all of their games.

Starting point is 00:28:29 against teams with winning records this year. They got the one point loss to Kansas City. They've got the five point loss to Washington. They've got the three point loss to Baltimore after they missed a kick. They let the game get away from them against Philly. That's their most lopsided loss of the year. And then they failed against Baltimore and the clutch down the stretch there and lost by one this week. Can they beat a good team?

Starting point is 00:28:52 Can they finish a game? Can we answer the allegations that Joe Burrow isn't clutch because he's had all these opportunities to go win games at the end and then he hasn't won. I retweeted an article today from Mike Sando. Mike Sando did a great job of taking that claim down. So I don't need to get further into that. Now go read it for the full analysis there. The point is Joe Burrow is so clutch.

Starting point is 00:29:15 But the team is letting him down. Did people think that? Were those real allegations? Oh, constant. Yeah. There's some voices out there that are very loud about that. Yeah. Because he's like, what's the record?

Starting point is 00:29:27 voices should be muted. He's like one in nine or something in a certain situation, but like he's taking the team down and scoring touchdowns and then they're losing anyway, you know? Anyway. Yeah. Lexando did a good job on that. That's so wild to me.

Starting point is 00:29:42 Like, oh my God. You can find a stat for anything. You can. That's true. Kevin Brightwell had 52 touchdown. The, uh, who you called me? Kenny Brightwell. We got three names for Gary Brightwell in this episode.

Starting point is 00:30:00 So the point I was trying to make is generally that the team around Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, as we've been discussing, needs to be better. And if they can get Orlando Brown and T. Higgins back this week, that's a big deal. If they can get these free agents that they signed to play better down the stretch, that's a big deal. If they can get some of these young guys to play better down the stretch, if they can play Miles Murphy Moore, coaching decision down the stretch, those things could help. But the team around Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase will need to be better for them to make this run. and despite how badly things have gone, they're still in a position where they can make that run,

Starting point is 00:30:34 which is kind of crazy to think about. What do you think the odds are that we have a listener named Kevin Brightwell or Kenny Brightwell? Which one would you pick? Would you stick with Kenny because that's the name you said for Gary? Or would you go with Kevin? Because if that's the one that I thought you said for Gary? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:30:54 If that is your name, I'm rolling with Kevin. I think there's a Kevin Brightwell out there that listens to Lockthon Bengals. But if there's a Kenny or a Gary, let us know too. That's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We'll be back with you tomorrow for most likely a mailbag. We'll see if we have other news to talk about between now and then. But keep your eyes out for an opportunity to get those mailbag questions in.

Starting point is 00:31:18 Until then, thanks for listening. Ho-Day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Cincinnati Bengals searching for veteran depth on defense, sign practice squad RB instead - but wildcard hopes remain alive (for now)!

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