Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - DEEP DIVE into Top Safety NFL Draft Options: Caleb Downs or BUST at 10?

Starting point is 00:00:00 We talked about the Bengals adding to every level of their defense. They've added two safeties already. Well, a third come in the NFL draft. Let's talk potential targets. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskgo, along with your host, James Rapine, joined once again today by Joe Goberry.

Starting point is 00:00:35 who does great draft work where he's got his videos over on his Bengals on the Brains Show with first star logistics and the NFL draft sheet that we put out every year with hundreds of players nearly a thousand this year with a bunch of data points for you, film grades and rankings. And we're going to finish up this week with safety, a position where if you would have asked me before free agency, what is a position the Bengals are going to prioritize in the draft? I would have probably thought that safety could have made the list. And then you get to the combine and the Bengals brass talks up Jordan Battle. And not only that, and much more important than that, they go spend big at the top of the safety market in free agency. And then later add another piece in the late part of free agency. So you've added Brian Cook, you've added Ducker.

Starting point is 00:01:25 Now you're at the draft and you've got Jalen Battle on the roster and you're wondering, okay, when is it worth picking a safety? And then that list of guys that is worth drafting gets much shorter. So maybe a little bit more depth than number of players today to talk about is Caleb Downs, squarely in play for that 10th pick, the favorite for a lot of Bengals fans, Joe. Would you pick Caleb Downs 10th in the draft after everything the Bengals have done this offseason? And the favorite, if you're talking, most commonly mocked player to the Bengals at 10. And it is Caleb Downs by a wide margin at this point, something we tracked on the spreadsheet

Starting point is 00:02:04 as well, so you can check that out. Would I, and is he worth it? Yes, completely. I think Caleb Downs is on tape, maybe the best player, maybe the best. You're saying, like, who are the best guys at doing their job? It's Jeremiah Love. It's Caleb Downs. I think that's it.

Starting point is 00:02:22 They might be in a category of their own because I don't know if anyone is as clean as those guys with the explosive plays and the playmaking ability. and that's a knock some people have put on downs. Like, oh, he just didn't get his hands on enough balls. Yeah, you know what? I watched a video the other day where he talks about what protection this offense was in. And he knew when and how he could blitz and exploit it through the A gap based on the call. And he knew right away based on the motion they did, all right, I get to loop around and blitz

Starting point is 00:02:47 the A gap on this. And he took off right at the right time, smack the quarterback for a sack. And I'm like, that's playmaking. Sure, it's not always getting your hands on the ball. And Ohio State didn't always put them in that position. He didn't play a lot of deep safety. Sometimes he was the Tampa 2 runner. Sometimes he was the slot guy, box guy.

Starting point is 00:03:03 They did everything with him and let him just control that team on the defensive side filled with guys that are going to go on the first, if not second round. So Caleb Downs is worth it completely. And I wish he would have tested. I wish he was an inch taller and five pounds heavier and three inches longer, to be honest. Boy, I have to say, and I'm talking wingspan there. Yeah. I see your face, Jake. Let me finish here.

Starting point is 00:03:28 I wish he was longer because that's usually what gets drafted in the top 12. Caleb Downs is worth the pick completely. And I think despite the moves they have made at safety, Bengals would still take him in the right scenario. All right. Let's get to this part of it because you mentioned his football smarts. How much has that been lacking while this Bengals defense has sucked over the past couple of years? And how do you think the Bengals would use him?

Starting point is 00:03:57 because a big part of me wanting Downs, and I do, is hoping that the Bengals have a plan to get him on the field a ton. And if it's three safeties with him and the nickel, fine. If it's Jordan Battle not playing as much because Caleb Downs is on the field and can read and react and do all the things that football smarts-wise he brings. Because for the past two years, people have raved about at Ohio State, have raved about what he meant to that defense. just what how valuable would that be and do you think that the plan will be in place where

Starting point is 00:04:33 you hit the ground running with downs it's extremely valuable it's why safety has one of the lowest correlations for high testing athletes to who becomes a good player in the NFL because it's not all about how fast you are agile all those things are good you want those things don't get me wrong that's how the usually the elite players are smart and athletic right but at the very least the smart guy can get on the field. And Downs looks like he passes the line of what an athlete looks like. I don't think he's a bad athlete. He's in a family of guys that made the NFL, right? Josh Downs is his brother, wide receiver, slot receiver, super quick guy. He's on the shadow team. Shout out Josh Downs. Anyways, Downs to me, if you wonder like, what does intelligence

Starting point is 00:05:16 give you? Gino Stone was still playing and starting because they couldn't trust anybody else back there really from the mental aspect of it, right? So if you want someone, and that's one reason Brian Cook was instantly a target, like that guy can help you on your back half. Look at when the defenses were good, when there's Jesse Bates and Von Bell, you had that covered completely in terms of intelligence, changing calls, morphing into something else pre-snaps, post-snap, Downs gives you that and helps you in that way. And that was one of the calling cards for Jordan battle as well. If you can just fill the room with guys that can do these things and help clean up the communication and allow you to do more things makes your defense better not only that

Starting point is 00:05:56 he's also one of the best tackling safety prospects in quite a while and is good enough as an athlete to tackle in the open field and tough enough as a tackler to run through guys and deposit them at a high rate whether it's in support of the run or in the open field with a wide receiver has been an all-american since he was a freshman as well just like This is a guy that hit the grab running for Nick Saven at Alabama, and then transferred to Ohio State and was, again, unanimous All-American. Another year in Ohio State, unanimous all-American, a guy that's been doing it at a high level, all of his college career.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And I got one more data point on Caleb Downs. If you ask if he can go in the slot and play that, he had 377 man-coverage snaps in his career. Based on PFF grading and man-coverage snaps, he is in the 99.7 percentile for man-coverage grade. of all safety's going back to 2016 could that be his role right away if he if he's drafted by the Bengals is that the fastest way to get him on the field yeah as you guys say it's a rhetorical question yeah that sure is it is it fills a need and

Starting point is 00:07:04 he can be that field general and all of those things I think we're all all in on Caleb Downs is that the only safety worth taking tenth overall is that the only safety the Bengals should be considering that early we will discuss that guy named Dylan coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Ruggiet because NFL draft is almost here. We are less than a week away now from the NFL draft where preparation meets opportunity and every decision matters and it's all about being ready when your moment comes. And that mindset applies off the field too.

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Starting point is 00:08:22 Rousiette, performance medicine. for met. All right, Joe, I'm going to ask it. Dylan Thineman, I know you like him. Is there a world where Dylan Thineman makes sense at 10? Given everything that we've said about Caleb Downs, what stands out about Thineman? What do you like? What's different? And would you consider him 10th overall? I want to be clear because I'd love to clip this part in two years when he is a pro bowler and one of the best players in this draft. He is completely, worth the pick at 10. He should be in consideration.

Starting point is 00:09:00 He should be in consideration above some of these players that we've mentioned on all of these episodes. Dylan Thetnaman on our draft spreadsheet, that has been pretty accurate. You go through our top 30 to 35. I was looking at this. I did our top 25 all the time that we've graded Jake. It's strong. It's very strong.

Starting point is 00:09:16 We got a couple of guys who haven't hit, and they're kind of good like Kavon, Tibido, I would take. So it's a good hit rate. Dylan Thineman is our number one player in terms of scoring on the the draft spreadsheet. He checks every box. When you, that phrase, we always say, checks every box. No, doesn't check every box. Caleb Down doesn't. He didn't do the testing. He's got three inches less in length than Dylan Thineman. I don't need a rouge yet. I've got tape of Dylan Thineman at Purdue at 18 years old with incredible range at free safety, making plays

Starting point is 00:09:49 on the ball. That's what he is. To me, he's a free safety that makes the rest of your defense work because I don't need an extra guy in coverage because he's got rare range. When Jesse Bates is at his prime with that rare range and we can get an extra guy in the box to defend the run, plus you have DJ Reader. Let me nice to have two force multiplayer, L. Golden. Dylan Thineman is one of them because he allows that, he allows you to get back to the right amount of numbers of guys you need in the box to defend the run at a high level.

Starting point is 00:10:16 But also, Oregon let him do more. So when he got there, they unleashed him a little bit, put him in the slot a little bit, put him at linebacker, let him be at the middle, Tampa 2, runner, he was great at everything. He plays with a consistent fire and intensity. He probably fires his gun too often, to be honest with you, but it gets into plays and makes him miss a little bit more as he misses tackles a little bit higher rate than Caleb Downs, a little bit more reckless, but at the same time, he gets to so many more plays. In his mind, when you're watching, he thinks he has to make this play and nobody else is going to. Downs has the security of

Starting point is 00:10:48 Arvel Rees and Sunny Stiles and other players that can make the play. He doesn't have to get in there and get his nose in there. I'm not saying the Thineman is better than downs. I'm saying Thineman checks every single box. He is an incredibly safe prospect with high upside, young player, young producer, elite athlete with good production. And on tape, he is as good as advertised. I would have no issue with any team taking him at 10 or around that range.

Starting point is 00:11:14 I think he should go that high. It's a good callout to compare him to Jesse Bates stylistically, I think, in many ways, right? because of the fireman putting out fires for things happening in front of you. Not that Caleb Downs can't do that, but Dylan Thineman's ability that he shows on tape to do that from the free safety spot is something that really covered up some of the potential flaws that existed when Jesse Bates was with the Bengals and they haven't had since.

Starting point is 00:11:39 And something that I think is fair to covet once again to have that guy that can put out fires when there are fires created in front of you. But the question then that I would have is after the moves of Bengals have made and given what they have on the roster of safety, what is the path to the field for Dylan Thieneman in year one? Who are you putting on the bench? Probably just Jordan Battle, right? But then given that and given Brian Cook's skill set,

Starting point is 00:12:02 Jordan Battle is still probably on the field in a number of packages. And you're trying to figure out then how to deal with a couple of guys that are more similar in skill set and the way that they're primarily used in Brian Cook and Dylan Theneman. So how would you see that fit, Joe, as far as where you would deploy Theneman and the rest of the safety room if you were the pick? at 10 or in a tradeback or wherever they were to pick him. Yeah, so I think Denham can do anything, right?

Starting point is 00:12:25 And a lot of the way that Caleb Downs could as well. And in fact, throughout his career, so I said Downs at 377 coverage snaps in man coverage, which is a lot. We'll talk about Manuel McNair Warren only at 280 man coverage snaps. Kianti Scott was a corner only at 327. So Downs has had more than them, right? Dylan Thineman is at 650 man coverage snaps in his career based on P.F. that puts him in his grade, not just how many yet is that.

Starting point is 00:12:53 His grade puts him to 93.5, 93th percentile for grading and man coverage. He's fantastic against tight ends. That's where there's a trend there like as to when that was it more at Purdue than it was at Oregon? It wasn't more at Purdue. It happened more at Oregon. So he did a lot of it at Purdue, but at Oregon, they were like, hey, you're going to play a lot of linebacker, you're going to man cover a lot of tight ends.

Starting point is 00:13:14 And I thought he was great covering tight ends one-on-one. You want to eliminate the tight ends kicking our butt every Sunday? might be Thineman right away. And then he morphs into doing more for you, could probably do some slot for you, give you a big nickel that way. And one of the things we talked about last year, why I was so high on Eamon Worry,

Starting point is 00:13:31 was he also was 90 percentile greater from man coverage. And that's exactly what he did. And I thought people were confusing what he was when we did the same exact episode. And then what he did for Seattle. And that's what I think Thineman could do the same thing. I think Downs could do it. I think guys that you draft at 10 are on the field.

Starting point is 00:13:48 figure it out after that, right? Draft good athletes, draft good players, draft good prospects. I think he's included in that. Yeah. The reason I asked about the plan for downs and it would be the same for Thieneman,

Starting point is 00:13:58 it's just the Dax thing. Dax was really, really, really high, top 12 on the Bengals board. And then they, and you could just say, oh, well, Lou was around,

Starting point is 00:14:09 Lou's not around anymore. He would be willing to give the keys up like a fine. But that's it, right? Whatever the Bengals pick at 10, I think we, I mean, we spent all week talking about it.

Starting point is 00:14:18 You want an impact. You want an instant impact. And I can see you think that Theteman could do that. And it's interesting because I don't know why the Bengals wouldn't like Theteman. I just would assume that Downs is ranked ahead of Theteman for them. Might be wrong on that, but that's just my assumption. I think for the entire NFL, probably. I mean, I know there's been some rumblings.

Starting point is 00:14:39 There was a period of time when there was a lot of hype for Theteman and all these things. But I would imagine that probably 95% of NFL teams have downs ahead of Tianman. if not unanimously. And they probably should. You know, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't, but it's the thing that I think teams are just going to love about Downs, especially if it's close,

Starting point is 00:14:59 and like the testing part of it for Thiemann. He obviously has the edge there because Downston is just how intelligent Downs is. You just can't, you can't necessarily teach the ability to recognize and react and do all of those things in real time that he has. Only a couple of those guys even in this draft that, Downs level. So if you talk about like elite athletes or elite size or elite producers, if you were like elite mentals, Downs is one of the few. And I think the last thing to point out

Starting point is 00:15:28 that I wanted to mention on these guys is that there is no size, speed, athleticism, prospect like Nickyman Worry was. And you mentioned Nickyman Worry and then you think about the size for these guys. Caleb Downs doesn't necessarily check the size box like the elite size. box. And same is true for Dylan Thinam, more of a traditional free safety kind of size of 201. Caleb Downs at 206, even McNeil Warren, who we're going to talk about who's probably more of a box player, just 201, that that size speed production, athletic, freak, the kind of guy like him in where you're even Kyle Hamilton, who didn't test as well, not really in this class, right? Or even Kyle Dugger, who's done a bunch of that as well. It's kind of a linebacker,

Starting point is 00:16:15 slot hybrid safety. Yeah, that is the advantage. That is a big thing. When we say we can just kick these guys in, one of the reasons why teams want a safety as the big nickel is the size. It helps you defend the run. It gives you an advantage. If I just put another cornerback sized safety there, what's the real advantage? Actually, it's probably a disadvantage. I can't cover as well as a corner can there. So I'm losing a little something. There may be why. if Downs gets passed by the Bengals at 10, let's say they take Ruben Bain instead. I wouldn't understand why. I would see Downs, if he's still there at 11, 12, 13, 14,

Starting point is 00:16:51 it was probably going to be because he's not the size of the guys that typically go very high. We have some other safeties to talk about potential round two targets. And then after that, is it even worth taking a safety with all the investment? The Bengals have made at the position. We'll finish the show with the rest of the potential Bengals targets coming up next. If you've ever opened your bank account and thought, where did all my money go? Well, you're not alone. Keeping track of all the subscriptions, spending and bills can get overwhelming and it can get overwhelming fast. That's where rocket money comes in. It helps you take control of your finances

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Starting point is 00:18:10 rocketmoney.com slash locked on. Let's talk about whatever Let's talk about. Let's go. Let's talk. We're going to talk about what I want to talk about, which is Jeremiah. No, I'm just kidding. Let's talk about Emmanuel McNill Warren. And if he gets the 41, let's say they take Ruben Bain.

Starting point is 00:18:32 And then Caleb Downs goes 13th. Dylan Thineman goes 19th. And now, like, safety would be discussed. I think a lot of people would be excited about Ruben Bain. But passing on a safety, it's going to be discussed. Ohio State fans are going to be in their feelings a bit. Does that mean they pivot? They go up north in a different direction and get the Toledo safety.

Starting point is 00:18:53 Potentially, yeah. I mean, you're right. It's not like you're passing on a local, you know, Ohio State for someone from somewhere else. You're going to Toledo for Manuel McNeill Warren. He's one of the more interesting players. He's one of the bigger. He's 6 foot three. Kind of leggy, but athletic leggy.

Starting point is 00:19:09 Typically, these guys change direction poorly. He doesn't. He makes a lot of plays on the ball. He's got a great. tackle radius. He comes down the alley with ferocity and hits guys very, very hard, uses all of that size. And some of his interceptions are some of the best interceptions of any defensive player we get this year. His highlight tape is also a blast in terms of just enjoying yourself because he lays out full Superman horizontal style for some of these. And you go, yeah, that guy's good.

Starting point is 00:19:37 But Toledo and gets knocked a little bit for that, even though Toledo head, Quinnon Mitchell, Tyson Anderson, and I believe they got another guy in this draft as well. well. So it's their defensive backfield. It looks like it's producing some NFL level players. I think he goes in the first round. So I haven't given it too much thought at 41. But if he's there, yeah, we're in. Besides those guys. Yep. There's a cliff. There's those three guys who are potential first round players. And then the question becomes, can you get better than what you have? Can you get better than what you have in two years? Is there a player here that is better enough than what you project Jordan Battle to be at this point, that it's worth using

Starting point is 00:20:20 a second round pick, a third round pick when we've talked about all these other positions over the last week, and they have made the investment in two players, two veteran free agents and had Jordan Battle around the roster. So when we're talking about potential round two guys that aren't falling out of the first round kind of thing, like if the Emmanuel McNeill-Warran fall scenario occurs, that's one thing. But talking about some of these other guys, is a different story. And I think some of them fit because there is a need at nickel and some of these guys have a lot of experience in that specific role.

Starting point is 00:20:55 But when we're talking about other potential targets of safety, I do think that there's that question of like, are these guys really worth picking? Are they really worth using that asset on when they've got all these other spots where they would like to add talent? And maybe the guy's just clearly so much better as a player that you're forced to do it. Great. If that happens, awesome.

Starting point is 00:21:14 But when you consider the rest of the safety prospects in this class, do any standout is like, yeah, it's worth taking that pick. It's worth going the safety direction at this point because that guy's that good. Yeah, I think AJ Halsey of LSU may be that guy. He's 511, 58s, 2.15. So a lot of, that's good bulk and density. And guys feel it when he contacts them. They melt on contact.

Starting point is 00:21:39 And he's a free safety. So kind of a good mix there, right? A guy who has range, plays deep. But when he hits you, man, these guys, they bounce off from him in the bad way for them. But Geno Stone could never go. No, never, never, never. And he's not a good tackler, though, because sometimes he drops his head a little too much in eyes and goes for the kill shot. When you're that big, sometimes you just want to impose your will on these guys.

Starting point is 00:22:04 And it looks like he does. But I think he's got good range. He plays very smart, doesn't take bad angles. It's just at times he misses a little bit. He's projected to go in the second round. Is that somebody you want to fit there that can take over for Jordan Battle, give you more coverage, give you more athleticism? I do think he's more athletic than Jordan Battle.

Starting point is 00:22:22 So, yeah, I think that could be a guy. I think someone that they've had contact with, and they went to the pro day, sent guys to the Arizona Pro Day. There's two guys here, Jenna Smith, and Tray Dan Stux. Stux to me is the guy that may fit them a little bit better. And I've heard someone say Stukes and Stux. I'm going to go with Stux because that's what I've heard first. But he was a slot for them and then a safety for them.

Starting point is 00:22:46 So he's got that versatility. He's older. I think he's 20, he's going to be 25 as a rookie. That's your second round pick, Demetra's night. But he's actually good on tape. I give him a 79,

Starting point is 00:22:55 which is the next best of the second grouping. Because he's got great ball skills range. He covers very good in man coverage. He's a fine tackler. I don't think he's an amazing tackler by any means. But as a slot guy, I think he's good. He's a plus tackler. As a safety, he's a fine tackler.

Starting point is 00:23:11 So he's physical enough. to cover tight ends is big enough to cover tight ends, athletic enough to stay with receivers. But I think the only time he got in issues, there are a lot of, they're a heavy quarters team is at times he's an off coverage. He allows guys to get a little too close to him and he can be a little bit stiff to transition and try and run with him. But he recovers so well. There's people that have played his highlights on Twitter or wherever you get your draft film, of him getting beat and then making a play on the ball. And I could see the Bengals being interested in a guy that has that versatility to maybe he's your slot now.

Starting point is 00:23:42 and then maybe he's your future strong safety and can cover and do everything you want him to do. Yeah. I think that's the big takeaway here is if they could get a guy that can play in the nickel and then ideally be on a rookie deal so you can pay Dax and D.J. Like it all kind of comes together. And that's something getting into the weeds contractually, but they're not going to pay Jordan Dax and D.J. I'll break the news now.

Starting point is 00:24:09 They're not going to pay all three with Brian Cook already on a guy. Like that's just a lot of a lot of mouths to feed. And so who's the odd man out? And it could be multiple. But yeah, adding a guy like Caleb Downs, instant fit now, instant fit next year. Pretty easy to see, you know. Anyone else like that, Joe, in this class? So three other guys, two are actually safeties.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Jalen Kilgore, South Carolina. He took over for Nickyman Worry to play that slot overhang defender for them. He was not good at it. What he was good at was actually playing safety. So, like, people are going to be like, oh, he has the versatility to do it. Those were where, if you collected all of his negative plays and all of his positive plays, there was a way PFF Ultimate probably has this, right, where you can watch them. I bet they were all from safety, his good plays.

Starting point is 00:24:53 He's going to be a better player in the NFL than he was in college, because I think he's a safety completely. And that, but having the versatility is not a bad thing. I would like a guy that could, you still have to come down and cover, even if you're Jordan Battle and Geno Stone. So getting Jalen Kilgore is 21 years old, 20 on tape, not a bad thing. if that happens. The other guy that was like that was Camari Ramsey out of USC. He kind of had to get forced into the nickel roll.

Starting point is 00:25:17 I think they had an injury there. They ended up sliding him over. There's a couple of Bishop Fitzgerald's the other safety for them. But they ended up putting Ramsey in the slot, he responded. He looked really good there. In fact, when they moving back to safety, I thought he was even better at that point. Give him a fuller picture of what was happening. He's also a 21-year-old. He's supposed to go in the second. I've seen Moxel him in the third and the fourth. He is 80th on the consensus. That might be where, you know, a guy that, that you can get in the third round, especially at Bengals pick at 72.

Starting point is 00:25:44 The last one, though, not a safety, but not a cover guy. I brought up his man coverage snaps because Keante Scott does not cover in man for Miami. But man, is he a bigger 433, Mike Hilton when you watch them? He's a nut. He flies in there. He will ram his head and it will full back into a tight end. He does not care. He's laying it all in the line.

Starting point is 00:26:06 He cracks from the backside of plays. If something's going away from them, he is tracking these guys from behind. and hawking him down. He's a great tackler. He just doesn't do a lot in coverage. But you know what? He makes enough plays. He is a psycho and he's fast and can tackle.

Starting point is 00:26:22 Sign me up if that's the third round. Honestly, I think that's something the Bengals just haven't. They haven't had enough of that. Nuttiness is a good way to describe it. I don't have enough dogs anymore. No, they don't. It's just nice puppy.

Starting point is 00:26:33 Yeah, he's got the dog. And I'm not ripping the guys that are on the roster now. But like, let's be like Mike Hilton got pissed at me after having a great game because I said, oh, well, when you tripped Derek, he was like, I didn't trip him. I tackled him. And like, I love that. And Gino Stone is busy shouldering guys. Like Jordan Battle had up and down.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Like, they need some of that. You're right. They need some edge to them with the way they play. The Bengals are looking for these hybrid guys that are going to be experienced and physical in that area. One of their 30 visits that is probably priority free agent, territory. way down on consensus has a free agent grade from dame brugler probably a uh darren simmons guy as much as anything is capenna gushikin from old miss who was in the uh capena

Starting point is 00:27:25 gushikin i love that you did it again no i just wasn't sure if you were going to do the name again because names aren't your thing go i'm reading the great thing about the beast is it has a pronunciation guide right in it for for some of these names but that's the guy that the bengals had the 30 visit with a potential nickel safety kind of player who has special team value. Yeah. So that is somebody to keep an eye on. Bengals have two seventh round picks, two six round picks.

Starting point is 00:27:54 Maybe a guy they really like at that part of the draft. What's the general feeling as to how much we think the Bengals will prioritize this spot? Is this like defensive tackle to you, Joe, a position where it's like if one of these really good prospects is there, that's the direction they go. where, again, for some of these other spots, we feel more like they are going to prioritize this. They're going to try to make this happen if they can.

Starting point is 00:28:17 So I looked at this history after Cal Dugger was signed of how do they actually address needs? They throw bodies at it when they do. It's like they're not confident in their evaluations, right? And they're not going to spend the biggest for these guys. They did for Brian Cook. So maybe that changes things. But they tend to just, I'm going to throw four draft picks over a two-year span,

Starting point is 00:28:36 and we're going to sign two low-end free agents. And hopefully these guys stick. and they've had varying degrees of success at this. So would I be shocked if they spent a pick at safety at detackle and at linebacker despite doing all of what you've done over the last couple of years? No, because that's how they tend to do it. They just throw bodies and hope one sticks. On the other hand, they have a lot of need still.

Starting point is 00:28:57 And if they said that they need an interior offensive lineman future center, if they need a swing tackle, they need a tight end over a safety, I wouldn't argue it too much because what's that safety going to be if we're talking rounds three, four, or five, it's probably going to come into safety number four, play special teams. Well, I think I'd rather a tight end that could be a tight end two or three for you. Your first interior offensive lineman,

Starting point is 00:29:18 maybe first center off the bench, maybe your first tackle off the bench. Yeah, I think you could prioritize those a little bit higher. Yeah, Markell Bell over Keante Scott is what Joe Goodberry just said. I mean, would it shock you? Not really. No, no. Finding a swing tackle would be nice.

Starting point is 00:29:36 I'll say that much. You know, it would also be nice not having 52 needs going into the draft, but that's why we had to break down every defensive position with you over the past five days. Well, and part of this, like you said, and we've talked about a ton, is like they needed linebackers last year. They drafted too. Guess what we're still talking about, linebackers. So like there's this whole idea that, yeah, we're talking about these positions

Starting point is 00:29:58 that we think they're going to need and they're going to prioritize. And I still think they are. But this is where you talk about finding the higher graded players, right? and the players not position. Just get the best players. Say it, Jake. Say it. I did.

Starting point is 00:30:15 Players, not positions. Oh, that. Oh, that. Well, yeah,

Starting point is 00:30:21 draft players, not positions. Yeah, of course. I love, right. I didn't know there was a part two to that. Oh,

Starting point is 00:30:25 yeah. Well, yeah. The whole saying by James Rupin is players not positions, Jeremiah I love, James Rappell. And no matter what position we're talking about

Starting point is 00:30:34 on a specific day. It's got to be a Jeremiah love reference in every single episode leading into the NFL draft. That's going to do it for our series with Joe Goodberry. Again, you can find his work. Bengals on the brain on the first off logistics YouTube channel. Find him on Twitter at Joe Goodberry where you will find all of his draft notes. And there's a subscription option for Joe for even more great tidbits there. And there are six episodes here now for draft targets by day of the draft for a bunch of positions.

Starting point is 00:31:03 We didn't get to offensive line. I'm sure we'll talk about the offensive line, a little bit more between now and the draft, and that is another spot that could address, but we've covered pretty much the entire defense, right? And tight ends in there for you, too. So hope you enjoyed the long list of Bengals potential targets here in this series. And until next time, thanks for listening, Ho-Day, and have a good one.

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