Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - DRAFT PUZZLE | Solving the Bengals' Draft Plans without another FA Guard addition

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Zac Taylor says there's no guard signing coming for the Cincinnati Bengals before the 2025 NFL draft. How does that impact their draft plans with a clear need for a starter (or two)? Jake Liscow is joined by Joe Goodberry to discuss how the draft puzzle pieces are starting to come together. Between first round options with flaws that may remove them from the Bengals' board altogether, to trying to find the sweet spot to draft a guard while also finding difference-makers at other positions, the guys try to discern the ripple effects to potentially forcing a guard early in the draft. Join the Locked On Bengals Insider Community! https://joinsubtext.com/lockedonbengalsFind and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bengals-daily-podcast-on-the-cincinnati-bengals/id1159723162Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0lh0WmQl5fJVgtajsGoogle Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbG9ja2Vkb25iZW5nYWxz?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwio_sXtj8nuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAgStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-bengalsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNFL at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.FanDuelRight now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

An NFL owner meeting, Zach Taylor indicated that you shouldn't expect to see the Bengals sign a guard before the draft. What does that mean for the Bengals draft as far as pigeonholing themselves into drafting certain positions at certain times? Let's break it down. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskow. joined today by Joe Goodberry at Joe Goodberry on Twitter, Bengals on the brain on YouTube,

where he does a great job of covering the Bengals and offers a subscription service on Twitter where you can get his unique blend of insight and analysis and film breakdown, all with a click of a button. Today we're going to be talking about what is going on with these first couple rounds of the Bengals draft and the things that they have to navigate to get there, especially given the Zach Taylor comments at owners meetings that they've won't be signing a card before the draft. Welcome back to the everydayers.

If you are new to the show, you can hit that subscribe button, hit the bell on YouTube to make sure you don't miss an episode. And today's episode is brought to you by Fandor. Right now, new customers can get $200 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. And Joe, we knew at some level, we will be having this conversation at some point.

The Bengals have a history of putting themselves a position going into the draft with very clear needs. It just seems like there's a few more of them this year than normal, where even if we try to pigeonhole them and say, yep, they're going to just draft their needs, round one, round two, round three. Something's going to be missing. They're going to have to leave something off the list. But it sure seems like Guard at this point is going to be a high priority after Zach Taylor

said not to really expect that before the draft. and this is why I've been saying on our show, Joe, that I will believe it when I see it at the Bengals sign another external free agent anytime soon. And that's why I've been saying free agency is over for the last week or so because just based on history, they typically sign all of their guys in the first seven days. Sometimes you get that Lael Collins and Trent Brown deal on day 9, 10, 11, Irv Smith on day like 18, whatever it was. We've gone over this before when we were on streaming together on Twitter and YouTube. and people kept waiting, what's the next move? And it's over.

These guys typically sit there until after the draft, which I thought was an interesting comment by Taylor because the Bengals typically don't guide back into free agency after the draft, which there's two things here. Number one, I don't like going into the draft with clear needs and it forces them to almost overlook maybe a value that presents themselves at a different position. And sometimes they pull the trigger.

Sometimes they don't on those guys. But when you don't, I always look back at the, those drafts and go, you know, you could have drafted that guy. You could have taken that guy, but you absolutely needed a center in 2018 that you felt you had to address that position. And that's how you, you fumble the draft in a lot of ways. But then at the, and at the same time, I see teams like the Ravens do this all the time as well.

They will go on the clear draft weekend with needs. But they don't, they don't go straight down the list of guard, defensive tackle, pass, rush, or tight on whatever they may need. And they'll come out through the, up at the other end of the draft. They're in June, and they say, you know what? Janamion Clowny's still here, Klyis Campbell, still here, wherever it may be, and they address it and fill it in that way. If the Bengals want to take that approach, I understand it, and I would be for it.

I just don't trust that that's actually what's going to happen. Yeah, it feels more like a, we spent the money we're going to spend, we're maybe going to spend more on Trey Hendrickson. That's still outstanding. Zach Taylor preaching patience there was the report from Palm Beach, I think. Florida is what I said, is where the owner meetings are happening, and the coaches breakfast on Monday, Zach Taylor talking with Bengals Media for an hour,

is what was said, which is a very long interview. So good for all them getting through that. But the feeling that I get when I think about, we're not going to do anything until after the draft is, we're going to try to draft a guard. And if we somehow totally come out of this whiffing on guard, we know we need another guy there.

But is that it? It's just one other guy? because if you've listened to Lockdown Bengals, you've heard James Rapine say, go sign two starting guards. And they signed Lucas Patrick. And they brought back Cody Ford. And those are not starting guards.

Those are, for most teams, solid backup guards, swing linemen type players. And that is not what they're in line for right now with the Bengals. If you were to ask Zach Taylor today, what's your playing a guard? We're going to have guys compete. We're going to bring in a guy in the draft. We're going to have him compete.

Is that a group you're comfortable with competing at that spot? How does that impact then where you draft the guard? Are you forcing yourself into this first round tackle-to-guard convert conversation that has so many Bengals fans uncomfortable because of recent examples of this not going well for the Bengals? And we were talking about this before we started recording. We'll talk about it again now. It's such a common path to finding NFL guards is finding good tackles in college that for whatever reason need to be guards in the NFL

and then those turn into good guards in the NFL. Yeah, this is very normal. I've received a lot of comments about this of why I know if the Bengals just draft a true guard and there's not that many. I mean, even if you go through the list, it's Tyler Booker, it's Tate Ratledge, and it starts to drop off from there.

And my response is always the best high school linemen, typically play tackle, or typically the bigger, more athletic guys, they get played at tackle in college. And then you need those bigger, more athletic guys to play all. five positions in the NFL and they end up getting kicked inside to guard.

It's very common for that to happen. I would say slow down a little bit. Don't get so freaked out if they do take a tackle, especially at 17. They're all tackles. There's not a guard worthy of that pick. But if it's a guy at 17 and looking at the few guys they have brought in for 30 visits so far are tackles that probably convert to guard, whether that's for the short term, maybe that's even temporary at guard for two years until they kick out to left tackle

and replace Orlando Brown Jr. Maybe you just play it by ear and you figure it out. But also, if you're spending a premium pick on a guard or linemen in general and figure out where he plays, how does that throw into the competition they want to have with all these low-end veterans, borderline starters? I mean, I would hope the 17th pick walks into a starting job. Now are those four, five, how far do we want to go? Six guys is Matt Lee and Jackson Kirkland competing for this job.

are they all competing for one guard spot? Then it gets a little bit of weird battle situation. Yeah, and you have some position of versatility there. I think that's part of the upside with some of the guys they have. You have Cody Ford who can hypothetically play four spots, although I would like to call it two. You have Matt Lee, who if he's in competition for guard, he can play three spots.

You have Lucas Patrick who can play three spots. And then there's a question of who's a swing tackle. And please don't say Cody Ford because I don't want that to be the answer. But maybe it is the answer. Because then there's no swing tackle. Maybe that's the draft pick, right? And where are you giving to get a swing tackle in the draft? Or are you saying that if it's a guard, you're kicking that tackle guard convert back out to tackle

and then bringing X player off the bench and now you're back to where we started at guard. Exactly. Yeah. But I do think that there are some interesting guard prospects in the first round. it's just from the tackle position perspective. It's just when we consider the first round options for the Bengals, Joe, as we have on lockdown Bengals, when we've gone through some mock drafts,

we started during our mock draft Mondays, all of the players in consideration for the first round, feel like there's something. And there is something. It's not just a feeling. It's there's something for all of them. Either it's not the positional value you want, or there's a character thing,

or there's an injury thing, or there's a production thing, or there's an athleticism thing. And you're often going to get some of that in the middle of the first round where you're going to see the surefire prospects in the top 10, top 15, the Bengals right outside of that range. But it feels like there's a lot more of that this year. I think that is the case. Let's talk about some of those concerns with some of these potential first round players here.

And I want to eventually get to a point where we can do a choose-your-adventure and talk about some scenarios because something's going to have to give when we're talking about these premium picks for the Bengals in the top 100 and picking your poison to go with your potion if the potion is a good thing that you're drafting to try to help your team

you're going to have to give something up or take some poison with it this year, I think, more so than normal. So we'll get to that topic as well. We'll continue, though, with some of the issues with some of these first round players here and how to pick which one of those you're most comfortable with coming up next. You ever check your bank account and wonder where did all my money go?

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Joe, let's talk about this first round a little bit because it leads you to some interesting places. It leads you to the Kelvin Bankses and Nickyman Worries of the world when you would like instead it to lead you to the James Pierce's and the Mike Greens and the Jahad Campbell's or name your favorite player in the first round because every time we talk about the options, it's, you know, Derek Harmon has a tackling issue.

Walter Nolan doesn't win cleanly enough, consistently enough. There's off-field stuff. There's injury stuff. And let's start with, I think, three of the more popular prospects, I would say, from what I've seen on social media, in the edge rushers and Jahad Campbell where there are, I think, serious off-field questions

And so we're not going to necessarily know a ton about from the outside, but we just talked about the Matt Miller mock that saw James Pearson the second round. We're not sure what the NFL is going to make for the Mike Green situation. And Jahad Campbell with that shoulder may have more of an injury history there that has some concerns as well. Yeah, it seems like a lot of these guys. Number one, you know, we track all data and look at athletic testing, and a lot of these guys are not testing. That's one thing right away when I look at the top group and I go, oh, man,

and you're going to take a risk. And the Bengals' history of taking guys that haven't tested, not great. You know, you don't want to swim in those waters. You don't want them to just only trust their film evaluations, which have betrayed them many of times. But then you go on to right. You have character, major character, right? Two guys that are in our top 10 of our spreadsheet,

and we expect to finish there because we can't really fully evaluate for character, right? Is Mike Green and James Pierce, two really, really good prospects? young, productive, athletic, everything you want from an edge guy that you would take top 12 or so in any draft class, except they're off teams board, reportedly, you know, for different reasons for each guy. Where does that leave them? And can we even discuss them at 17? We probably can't. I mean, we're talking about a year after taking Jermann Burtain in the third round where the Bengals said, yeah, week before the draft the reports are, this guy's going to be a day three pick, fifth, sixth round. Bengals, they know, we're going to take him in a third round.

We absolutely love what he is on tape. you can trust that. And sometimes it works out. But at the same time, coming right off of that draft, can they make that decision again? And then you have guys like Jod Campbell that, yeah, shoulder labor room tear, full reconstruction. It sounds like reports that he's got knee issues and he had surgery on the other shoulder

in his past at Alabama. Typical Alabama broken down prospect coming out. But man, is he good? And he's young and he's athletic. Maybe he's there in round two. There's something that believe he'll be there round two. Maybe all these guys will be. Walter Nolan on some of these mocks is there in the 30s.

And I'm like, okay, so what's going on there? You're right. The winds aren't clean enough. There's some character questions with him of how is he personality-wise? How does he fit with everyone? Then you got guys like Jalen Walker that are getting pushed up because he's a young, athletic, has a great body, edge linebacker, hybrid from Georgia. But then you watch tape, and I'm like, he's not good at either one of those.

So where does he go? Like there's a lot of nightmare picks, and you end up wondering, okay, if we eliminate those guys off the board, and this is where we're at now and the conversation goes, what is left? What would satisfy this team and what direction do you go at 17 and the ripple effects it has in rounds two, three, four, where you're trying to get guys that can contribute as rookies? And there's still some concerning options when you eliminate those guys for different reasons. Shamar Stewart, a guy that we are probably not talking about enough as a draft possibility. Mike Hill Williams, probably not talking about enough as a draft possibility.

Both of those guys well within the age range for the Bengals, both of those guys checking athleticism boxes, at least Jamar Stewart with his testing. But both of those guys lacking severely in the pass rushing productivity perspective, although there are some out there that would make arguments that Chamar Stewart is a better pass rusher than his sack numbers indicate from a wins and pressures perspective. And even if you look at the sheet that you're referencing, Joe, that the film grades on Stewart range from you having him as, what, a third round? 75 versus some of our other evaluators thinking much more highly

of Samar Stewart seeing him as a fringe first, second round player. But that's what we're talking about is fringe first second round player. We're talking about 79s and 80s in terms of our film grading system. And the border for first round, second round is 80. 80 is late first, 78 would be your solid second. So 79, 80, right in that first second round range. And that's the kind of player that we're talking about largely, especially assuming that it's not a fall or at a wildcar position.

If we're talking about the defensive tackle, an edge rusher, maybe a safety, maybe a guard, who would be a tackle guard convert. Then we're looking at, you know, probably eliminate Simmons from Ohio State because of the knee. if we're talking about, you know, injury flags and character flags. So we're taking Simmons off. And so you got Kelvin Banks as the top linemen that you're hoping would be available if you want them to go to the linemen, offensive linemen in round one. I think he's probably the only option for round one linemen.

Unless you really love Gray's Abel. That would be the only other one I would think of. But then there's a small school flag there, right? And he didn't test either. And that's a great point. And then there's Nickham and Worri. and who else? Who are the quote unquote clean from a flag,

from a character flag, from an injury flag, from a production flag prospects that you think are in consideration at 17? Right. And you get to maybe it's Nick Scorton. And like I don't love Nick Scorton, but he's a fringe first round guy

that transferred from Purdue, played at about 255 there, looked more explosive then, and then it goes to Texas A&M, where they really were cramping and condensing their defensive linemen and really weren't giving them too many edge rush opportunities and straight, you know, off the edge. But again, like, what are we talking about? Is that the best option?

Is it Malachi Stark, who didn't test well, but is a young, high-end prospect that the Bengals from a big school that the Bengals typically would play in those waters? So I don't think that's outrageous. Is it the two tight ends that the Bengals have notoriously. bypass drafting tight ends until last year where they double dip on two guys with different flags on them. I remember we saw the background of the Giants board. Even Tanner McLaughlin had a flag on him for a late round prospect. So, you know, that's an odd situation.

And then so is it Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland. Would they even go in that direction? I don't know that they would. So you get there. Yeah, you say, Nick and Morrie, it checks every box. Is that all we're talking about? Is that the only guy? And even Will Johnson hasn't tested yet.

Maybe he will. He's supposed to have a private workout before the draft. and be able to test at that time. So maybe he gets into the conversation there. But again, we're talking very small margins. And that's how I got to Derek Harmon the other day. When I said, you know what, if I have to pick one month in advance, I think the Bengals will draft Derek Harmon at 17 because so many of these guys,

you can whittled them down and say, are they willing to accept that risk? What kind of risk are you taking with Harmon? Well, he misses tackles. But you know what? He creates so many plays. Maybe that would offset it for the Bengals. What leads you to that conclusion versus the Shamar Stewart, Michael Williams conclusion? Because I feel like part of it is just wishcasting that, you know, we don't like the production numbers.

That tells you that there's a significant risk for those players. But the consensus for those guys is right around where the Bengals would pick. Yeah. So for Michael Williams and Shamar Stewart, again, we're not going to be high on them largely because of their production. And that's understandable. but they are young players, especially in Schmar Stewart, is very, very athletic. And we've gone over that, too.

If you got, they're hit 95th percentile and better 97, 97, 98, 100th percentile for these guys. Those guys typically can be baseline, solid players for you. Juries out whether or not they become superstars because that athleticism should suggest they would be. But I think in this draft, what happens to me, why I ended up with Derek Harmon is because watching teams like the Falcons that pick ahead of the Bengals or the Panthers and reading, like their beat reporters and things like that. It's, I see though, if they're not taking Pierce or Green either, maybe they're the Schmar Stewart, maybe they're the Mikel Williams.

And I start to listen and try to hear as much as I can and read as much I can and listen to podcasts as much of other teams and other analysts that they start pinpointing the same players we are. And I'm like, every year, those are the guys that get drafted a little bit earlier. Because if everyone is pinpointing them and if the teams are as well, those guys tend to push them up 10 spots, drop the other guys down. And that's where I'm putting Harmon now in that range of top 22 to 23. And I'm dropping some of these other guys down a little bit.

And that's where I'm like, he's right in that range. He's at the age, big school, big production. I think he would be the fit. It's interesting because you get those guys pinpointed. And sometimes they just get drafted earlier, which is what you would expect. And sometimes you instead have the question of like, why is this guy available in the third round? What heck is going on? And then we find out afterward what was going on, whether it's medical or something else.

And sometimes we don't find out. And those players just turn out to be good. But let's talk about some of the options here, Joe. We've laid the groundwork. Let's talk about some of the different scenarios for the first three rounds here to finish up the show coming up next. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by Fandul. March Madness is nearly over,

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So check it all out at fanduel.com to get in on all the college troops action, all tournament lot. Let's choose an adventure, Joe. There are several different paths that the Bengals could take through the first three rounds of the draft. And let's start with the path that has them picking Derek Harmon.

Let's say you're right. Okay. And you've been right before. So let's start with the first round. round defensive tackle. And we, when we were streaming on YouTube and Twitter and all these things, put together what we thought the top needs were for the Bengals. We landed on offensive guard as the highest priority.

We don't think that they can line up right now with the offensive guards in the team. I think this was before they signed Lucas Patrick. I don't think that changes a number for me. The second highest need was an edge rusher to go along with what they've got there. And honestly, we landed third for defensive tackle. Let's say it's Derek Harmon in the first round. You're only getting two of those in the two other positions, right, at most in the next two rounds. Are you forcing defensive end and guard?

And if you are, where are you doing that? Do you have to go defensive end now in the second round? Because of the cliff between the second and third round at that position versus the perceived depth of some potential tackle to guard prospects who may still be there for you in the third round. And we can talk about who some of those players are a little bit. But what's your intuition telling you? Yeah, I think this is when I run into these situations, whenever I'm doing mocks or even just trying to project it in my mind, is there are so many puzzle pieces and not enough picks, right?

There's so many, you're going to be left with something. Because, again, what we're doing and what we started the show with and kind of forewarned was that now we're potentially bypassing someone of value at another position. Maybe you get there and it's a linebacker that is really high. Maybe Jihad Campbell's still there in round two, right? We talked about the injury issues there. But, and then they say, no, we need another pass rusher.

And instead, they go with Landon Jackson, right, who's 53rd on the consensus right now. I'm trying to look at guys that are in that range. And there's quite a few. And then you get to the third round of defensive end. And it's not very good. There's a big fall off, as you alluded to. So do you say, all right, well, there's still linebackers that'll be there in round three, round four, which I agree with.

There will be. but now am I bypassing a better player in an effort to fill a need? I think that scenario I laid out would be rather than taking John Campbell, you take a lane in Jackson that you think would be a big guy against the run that can, you know, is athletic. We really don't care about fast-fresh productivity, as we've seen with some of their picks. Then I would say, you know, that's probably not good process. That's probably not unless Campbell's completely off the board in this scenario.

But yeah, I get there and I say, okay, guards and typically when I'm doing these mock drafts as well, guards are typically there, rounds two, round three, round four. But at what point is that guy an immediate starter still? So if it's Tate Ratlidge, I think he's an immediate starter. Anyone else after that, Donovan Jackson, I think is an immediate starter. Anyone else after that is, are these guys that are tackle converts? And do they immediately help you right away? Because typically guards looking at like PFF grades and data like that, guards,

defensive tackles, tight ends, grade lower their rookie years. are we looking at potentially filling those positions right away for the Bengals, especially guard and defensive tackle, whereas corners tend to perform well as rookies. Running backs tend to perform well as rookies. Receivers do. Bengals aren't in that situation. Maybe they get a corner, maybe not. Maybe it's Trey Amos in round two or wherever it may be.

But if we're just going and attacking needs, these aren't positions that typically have high impact or positive impact, I should say, as rookies. Well, that's the other, you bring up Trey Amos name. And I don't think he's available to the Bengals in the second round. Sometimes you can get him in the simulators. I think he might go in the first round, early second round. But maybe he's available, right? And maybe it's not Jahad Campbell.

Maybe Jahad Campbell is too rich for those of you listening. You're like, what are you talking about? He's going to be gone at 15. What are you talking about 49? You guys are crazy. All right, fine. Maybe it's Trey Amos because you've seen him available to you in the simulators. And then you're talking about passing on Trey Amos at that point for maybe a player that you don't have as highly graded.

because you can't draft a cornerback in that spot. So maybe it's not to hot Campbell. But you feel like you need a guard. And let's even say that you can't pick Tate Rattlidge. Maybe Tate Rattlidge has been picked. Maybe some teams like, you know what, his 2023 tape was awesome. He tested like a freak. And we think this is a hit the ground running guard who's going to be good from year one.

And he doesn't make it to you in the second round. And now you're talking about are we taking to Arionte Ursary and trying to kick him inside and taking an older prospect and he needs to change positions or the Aussie Trappelos of the world or the Jonas Savanayas of the world from Arizona.

Those are some of the other player the Charles Grant who the Bengals have had in for a 30 visits or are having him for a 30 visit. From a small school. So does he hit the ground running? And then you have all these questions about whether this guy can be a starter.

But then if you wait and then you're talking about the Jonas Savanayas and maybe the Charles Grants and who else, the Wyatt Millems, the lower end, the lower end day two, but still day two prospects, Marcus and Bose, Miles Frazier, are those guys that you think can start. And then if you feel like you need to get a starter, are you comfortable waiting to the third round instead of you, are you now forcing yourself to go guard in the second round, no matter what? is that a position where the Bengals have found themselves? So let's say they do go guard. You've gotten defensive tackle guard.

Let's say it's Tate Routledge, paint a rosy picture here. You got Derek Harmon Tate Rallagel. You feel pretty good about those picks. There's nothing wrong with those picks. And then you get to the third round and, well, now we need an edge rusher. Need one. And is there an edge rusher that we want to pick here? Or, man, Andrew McCuba is still there.

Kevin Winston's still there. We can get a safety that we really like. Now what do we do? these are all the scenarios that have to play out as the Bengals get together. Typically about three weeks, two and a half weeks before the draft, they're going to have these 10 to 12-hour days where they're discussing all these scenarios, doing mocks, putting two players together and debating them. But I made the case recently that last year, and even you go back two years ago for someone

like Miles Murphy, their pre-draft grades will carry weight. At some point, you're going to slot them into this draft board and say, okay, is Landon Jackson a better prospect than Miles Murphy? Is Braden Swinson a better prospect than Miles Murphy? Are they better than Joseph Osai, who's still young? You know, you have to say, all right, are these guys walking in as starters or just complementary pieces? And do I have to have that guy in round three?

Is Josiah Stewart, is he going to crack the lineup or crack the rotation in round three? Or would Andrew McCuba be a straight up upgrade or Winston be a a straight up upgrade at safety where that guy could win a starting job as a rookie. And I think you could. I think you definitely make that case that they're better prospects than Jordan Battle or even what Gino Stone offered last year. So then now I haven't drafted an end.

And I'm in the fourth round. I made this case for defensive tackle as well with Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson. Say it's not Derek Harmon in round one. Say it's Nickyman Worry. Then you get to round two and you're like, yeah, not really a guy there that we really like and have to have in round two. And Chris Jenkins, based on our scores, and I assume the way the Bengals talked about Chris Jenkins after they drafted him.

And I assume you don't take that guy in round two unless you think he can be a better pass rusher than what he showed at Michigan and even as a rookie. They get the round two and they're like, you know what, Chris Jenkins is better than these guys we have here. We're not going to do it. We're not taking a defense tackle. You get the round three. And they may say McKinley Jackson's better than the guy that they have available in round three. I know it's a strong defensive tackle class, but I think after the top six or so, they all look like complementary pieces, role player rotation type guys. So to me, I can see the Bengals saying, you know, maybe we'll get a pass freshman.

Maybe it's a Thor Griffin or round four or whatever to add to this room. But do they absolutely have to get a guy in rounds one, two, three? I don't think they have to if they're not better than the guys they just drafted last year. Yeah, and there's some guys that have upside. I can hear people talking about like, what about D.L. Walker. What if D.L. Walker's back isn't broken and now he's that player again and he's that dude. What about C.J. West, who a fifth-year player. What about the Aeneas Peebles, who I don't think is a player that the Bengals will be interested in.

Darius Alexander, Alfred Collins. There are some other guys, Omar Norman Lott, a big one that I think people look at the pass rush data from PFF and are interested there. But the second round really doesn't seem like T.J. Sanders would be the one in the second round, right? Where it would be like, if you can get T.J. Sanders in the second round, data loves him. You can be a pass rush before it. You played in the SEC. played on a good defense is still going to be younger than 22 on draft day. But if there's only one, you're talking about really threading the needle in the second

round at that point, right? Yeah, that's not what you want to be. That's not where you want to be. And what it leads to is that, okay, chaos. It could be any of these positions. It could be a detackle, a D.N. If you're, and here's the problem, this is how we do this every year, I think, where we start to say, well, there's one guy you would take.

Well, it's Bengals. There might be three or four guys. We just don't want those other three guys. So we, you know, that's how they end up hitting these, these picks. And you go, I can see it. But man, I don't like that pick at that spot. Man, I don't like the upside for that guy, you know, in that range. Or, you know, maybe he can come in and be a competitive player or beat out somebody.

But again, if you draft a third round, C.J. West, is he going to play over the, how many snaps are we talking as a rookie? If we're talking, you know, Luke Candra in the fourth or fifth round that someone of people always bring up, is he beating any of these guys for a starting job, these veterans that have played 3,000 snaps in their career, the three guys ahead of them? I don't know that he is. So I think in our heads we fill our minds with, oh, these rookies will fill these holes and fill these needs.

Ideally, probably two of them are starting. And maybe a third guy makes an impact or is a part of a rotation. That's it. How do you want to address that? How do you, which of these needs, the topic of the show, which needs do they want to actually fill or address? It's tough. And it takes you back to a conversation

that we're not even going to have time to in this episode, which is if you're looking for that kind of player that's going to contribute that much in terms of snap count and say you're willing to ignore everything off field for the Mike Greens and James Pierce's of the world, are you willing to spend your premium draft pick on a third down player? And a guy that is on the field for very important snaps, game winning, pass rushing snaps, yes,

but he's only on the field for 15 snaps a game. And that's your first round pick as part of a rotation versus, what if it is a safety that's playing 98% of your snaps and can potentially make an impact for you there instead. These are the difficult decisions the Bengals have to make because of the position they've left themselves and going to the draft where we're still going to have time to work through these scenarios and talk about the different options

and the different paths the Bengals can take. but if Will Johnson is available to you in the first round and suddenly you're like, I got to take Will Johnson in the first round, the knock-on effect from that is, feels heightened this year because of the position they're at going into the draft. And that makes things, I think, very challenging.

And we'll have plenty of time to talk about that. That's going to do it, though, for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. You can find Joe again on Twitter at Joe Goodberry on YouTube, the Bengals on the Brain show where he's doing a great job, breaking down prospects going into this. draft. Until next time, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, Hoodeh, and have a good one.