Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Expectation Setting For Jonathan Allen: How Much Juice Will he Bring Bengals Pass Rush?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals took a big swing on Jonathan Allen. So let's talk with someone who just watched him for a year about what he's got left in the tank. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to a mini episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown podcast network, your team every day in the number one sports podcast network in the land. Let's go join today by Luke Braun from Locked-on Vikings, our film grinding friend from the NFC North,

Starting point is 00:00:44 who has some thoughts about Jonathan Allen. And I thought, where better to go than a guy who I know, who has just watched Jonathan Allen at a higher level of detail than any of us in the Bengals world have for the last year. And so we'll talk with Luke about what exactly it is and we should be expecting from John Allen, joins the Bengals on that two-year, $26 to $28 million deal with some incentives involved that fortunately for the Vikings means that they escape some of those dollars that were

Starting point is 00:01:18 guaranteed with offset language. But we're not as interested in that part of things, Luke, as we are interested in. What exactly should we expect from Jonathan Allen taking on, I assume, a prominent role for the money he's been signed for with the Cincinnati Bengals after a year where the production maybe wasn't quite as strong and the Vikings just let him go I think maybe you start with well you would have liked to have seen Minnesota keep

Starting point is 00:01:46 out correct? Absolutely yeah I mean he got 30 pressures like for an interior guy that ain't bad they had three different players get on the interior defensive line get 30 pressures so the this weird allegation that Brian Flores defenses don't get their detackles pressure we had over 100 pressures from the interior Like that was in the upper half of the league. But for Jonathan Allen, very balanced player, that's what I think you should take, is that this is not like a specialized player like the other guy that just left Minnesota, J. Vaughn Hargrave, was very much about the pass rush, but you don't want him in run defense. This is not the thing.

Starting point is 00:02:25 Jonathan Allen can hold his gap. Fine. He is not the most stout big nose tackle ever. There are a couple times a double team will move him off the spot and you're like, oh, bad rep there. but if it's a single block, if there's a chance for penetration, he'll make some plays there, and he'll more or less be able to hold the spot you need him to hold. He is not going to be the guy that you're pointing to on your defense going, this is why we're getting run on.

Starting point is 00:02:50 And then in terms of the pass rush, big hump move guy, right? Big push, pull, just get leverage, get up into somebody, and then pull him off. And he's beaten guards that way his whole career, and he still very much can do that. I know he's on the wrong side of 30, which means you might as well be 70 in terms of NFL. the way that we talk about these guys in the NFL, but he did not show really any signs of aging. He wasn't the premier player like he was in Washington. When Washington would design pass rushes,

Starting point is 00:03:18 it would be about getting him and his buddy, Duran Payne, you know, beautiful opportunities. And this is not what the Flores defense was trying to do. There was a little more dirty work where he would have to crash. He would have to be sacrificial on a stunt. He would have to, you know, try to lure a double team and, you know, run out that way or something like that. And he did great at those roles and that often led to pressure that, you know, you could kind of credit to it.

Starting point is 00:03:44 I mean, like if there's a pressure on a stunt, don't you kind of credit that pressure to both of those guys in a way? It just doesn't get charted that way. But who cares how it gets started, right? It was impactful. So this is a good player. The reason he is leaving Minnesota, I don't think has much to do with his performance at all. I think it's the fact that he had a contract that was meant to be restructured. There was like a big base salary and just,

Starting point is 00:04:05 enough guarantees to make it awkward to cut him. And to get that cap hit down, I think it was meant to be restructured. So it would be a fairly even salary cap structure for this year and then what would have been the last year of his contract next year. And to do that, they would have had to furnish a signing bonus. And the Vikings are having cash flow issues on their ownership side right now. So they didn't want to do that, a situation I'm sure you as Bengals fans are very familiar with. And so they're letting good talent walk out the door because they don't want to fund the cash.

Starting point is 00:04:33 That's the way that I feel about the Vikings right now and the Bengals are the beneficiaries of that. Yeah, I think the Bengals will take that. When you saw the price tag, was that in line with your expectations, two years 26 with incentives up to 28 after the Vikings signed him to a sizable deal, obviously the year. Yeah, I was twice that. He had like a $22 million cap hit like this year. So I thought they were going to restructure that down. But yeah, that makes total sense to me.

Starting point is 00:04:58 I think that's a perfectly fine deal. You know, 13 million now is not what 13 million. was even two years ago. In terms of like percentage of cap and stuff, that's you are expecting basically a two down roll to me at $13 million where you're still the guy. You're still would be considered a starter, but maybe you come off in certain situations. And I think you could get more than that out of Jonathan Allen. I think the fact that he had a couple injuries and the fact that he's over 30 is working

Starting point is 00:05:27 against him and the fact that he got cut and it always raises the question, well, why didn't your guys want you? I think all that's working against. him and I think that made him something of a bargain. Yeah. Let's dig into what the schematic differences are that people have talked about. You alluded to it a little bit there as we started as we wrap up the conversation, setting expectations for Jonathan Allen signing a sizable deal to play with the Cincinnati

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Starting point is 00:07:42 and support Lockdown Bengals by saying you've heard about Indeed on Lockdown Bengals. Indeed.com slash podcast, terms of conditions apply. If you need to hire, that's a job for Indeed sponsor jobs. Luke, as we discuss what expectations should be for Jonathan Allen. One thing that I've discussed on Lockdown Bengals is the difference is and what might be asked of Jonathan Allen and of Brian Flores defense, where there are all of these exotic blitzes

Starting point is 00:08:08 that are happening pretty much on every single down versus what might be expected of Jonathan Allen in a more traditional defense. And maybe it's more akin to what he did with the commanders. That's what I maybe was painting as a rosier picture in terms of projecting production for Alan, that it might be somewhere between the two. Like you said, it's not like he did nothing for the Vikings.

Starting point is 00:08:29 He still had his production in the past rush, but it's a different defense than you're playing in in most of the teams in the NFL. Brian Flores is on a bit of an island. You kind of said that it's not necessarily like that as much as maybe other people think, and that's been blown up a little bit this week for those who pay close attention. What are your thoughts around that conversation? So I don't, I'm not familiar with the Bengals defense at all. So I don't know what you'll be asking him to do that.

Starting point is 00:08:57 That's for you and James to talk about. But what I can tell you about Jonathan Allen is, again, a very balanced player. versatility to this. I don't think there's a role you can not ask him to do outside of asking him to be like an offball linebacker or something. Um, you know, if you want him to crash and be dirty work and go take on doubles, he's going to be fine at that. If you want him to be the guy that takes on guards, I think he still has good enough pass rush juice to make that happen. Um, you know, if you want him to loop around, he's going to be a detackle, but not the slowest detackle you've ever seen or anything like that. Um, so whatever role you have for him, one tech three tech is going to be

Starting point is 00:09:29 fine. That's, I think part of what you're buying into is that, hey, you know, our one tech got hurt. Okay, we can slide him over and, you know, that versatility can kind of pay its dividends elsewhere, especially as you have to access other parts of your depth chart. For Flores, the way that those exotic blitzes get constructed is there's kind of like a system of parts and you just kind of like slap them together in your play call so you can have this stunt and tack it onto that stunt. And the thing you have to do to teach that is everybody has to know every position.

Starting point is 00:10:02 So the nose tackle has to know what the edge rusher is doing because sometimes you might be in an exotic front where the nose tackle is over the tackle specifically to make some weird matchup thing happen. So maybe that is a tougher thing for Jonathan Allen who wasn't quite as well suited for those exotic looks or whatever. But that's not really what I saw when I was watching the Vikings defense this year. I saw a guy that you rarely went, he didn't do his job. And sometimes his job just wasn't that glamorous, but there's no shame in that. And so for somebody trying to reconstruct a Bengals defense that's been such a bugaboo for a long time, I just, I don't think that outside of the most exotic possible stuff, I don't think that there's like an ask that you're like, oh, that well, you don't want to ask Jonathan. I know I wanted to do that.

Starting point is 00:10:48 And that plus veteran leadership, by all accounts, well liked in the locker room and all that stuff, I think can be a really good. sort of touchstone for a defense that's in so much chaos. How about a guy that you just put out of three tech and just rely on? He's going to do his job. He's going to be fine. He may not be the biggest superstar anymore like he was in Washington, but it's going to be fine. It's like that old moneyball thing where, you know, hey, you're not paying him for what he was. You're paying him for what he is right now and what he's going to do for you right now. And I think that can hopefully helped to ground some of the chaos that has happened, especially in that front seven. Yeah, especially the second level.

Starting point is 00:11:29 But when you describe a guy that does his job and has veteran leadership, that is something that this team needs. They've needed that lead. Like, DJ Reeder was the leader for this team. The last time I saw you in person in 2021, early 2022 in Los Angeles. Oh, man. It's been some time, huh? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:49 And that guy's... We did 23? The Jake Browning, never should have cut me game? We talked. but I didn't see you in person for that game. Oh, that's right. The Super Bowl is when we saw in person. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:59 Yeah. Last thing, I guess, would be in those one-on-one situations because I'm looking at where he lined up for the Vikings last year. And I'm seeing five A-GAP snaps for the Vikings in 2025. And quite a lot of three-tech looks like some four-eye over the tackle, probably on the inside shoulder, I assume. When he got those one-on-one opportunities, what percentage of like peak Jonathan Allen would you say you're getting getting like 80% 90% 90 yeah

Starting point is 00:12:29 I mean I there was something else in Washington right but it's it's still 8090 really good hunt move it kind of reminds me of like late stage um Dwight freeney and the spin move and I was like man that thing really works still huh like deep deep into his career it's kind of like that where it's like that's you you will never go wrong with that and at worst he just becomes a one trick pony late late into his career but he's still not bad he's one with swims and push pulls and all kinds other moves it's a good trick even if it's one trick because yeah he is among the best with that particular move in getting to the quarterback and i think that's primarily what the bengals are looking for here i think they're looking for that pass rusher and a guy that they're not worried about

Starting point is 00:13:10 putting out there on other downs like he's fine at everything but ideally that they really needed to improve their pass rush i think that's what they're hoping to get here with the price tag for jonathan Allen and putting him out there in those nickel situations. So I'm excited to see what the role is from him. I'm excited to see what he still has because at his best, the guy was a monster. And when you get those flashes, because I think you still do get those flashes as players age who were like this at some point in their career, those can be fun to watch. Luke from the Lockdown Vikings podcast.

Starting point is 00:13:43 Thank you so much for the insight. You know, Luke has done his due diligence, has grinded all that Flores tape, has learned a lot about how that scheme works. So you know what? If you have questions, go find him over on Blue Sky at Luke Braun NFL. And I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you whatever you'd like to know about Jonathan Allen. And until next time, thanks for listening to this mini episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, through day.

Starting point is 00:14:07 Have a good.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Expectation Setting For Jonathan Allen: How Much Juice Will he Bring Bengals Pass Rush?

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