Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - FROM THE BENGALS BOOTH: Dan Hoard on Joe Burrow & Play Action, DJ Turner, Lingering Questions

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals are talking about explosive plays and changes coming to the way they're playing football. Let's talk with Dan Hort about how those things are being implemented in the offseason program. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm Jake Liskow, he's Joe Goodberry. Today we are once again joined by the great, the Unison Dan Horde. Unison is not the word that I wanted there.

Starting point is 00:00:42 But it's close enough. The inimitable, is that the word I want? I don't know, but, you know, I've invented words that don't exist on some of my broadcast, so I'm right there with you. After the Bengals beat Baltimore, the Tyler Boyd catch that sent the Buffalo Bills to the playoffs, I invented a word that combined two words. I took two words and combined them into one. So it's this very famous moment in Bengals history,

Starting point is 00:01:12 and my call of it includes a word that doesn't exist. So Jake, you're off the hook. It happens to all of us. Well, that's how we get words into the dictionary time and time again. Today we're going to discuss a little bit more of the on-field aspects of the off-season program. There's been a big emphasis, Dan, on explosive plays, on getting under center, on play action. There's been a lot of talk about the linebackers.

Starting point is 00:01:36 We'll get to that topic a little bit later in the show. But let's start with the play action topic because it feels like every year. I see Joe at training camp or I'm texting Joe during training camp. Man, the Bengals are going under center a lot in training camp. They're rep and play action a lot in the offseason program. And inevitably, every year, when things start to be real during the regular season, especially after that scripted drive,

Starting point is 00:01:59 we see the Bengals go to where they're comfortable, which is Joe Burrow and the shotgun, putting receivers into the pattern and letting Joe Burrow pick apart defenses. Do you buy that this year, the way Dan Pitcher's talking about it, the way Burroughs talking about it's been discussed at press conferences, that this year, they're really prioritizing that part of the playbook differently than we've seen the last few years? I think they would like to use it more, but I still don't think that's going to be the dominant part of their personality. I think one of the underrated things about their coaching continuity is that they're able to work on things that they're not good at.

Starting point is 00:02:38 Maybe more than they would if they didn't have this continuity. The stuff that they do well, that's already clicking. I mean, they don't have to do, you know, build that from stage one. They're jumping right in at, you know, an advanced level when they do burrow from the shotgun, five guys going. out in patterns. They do that well. They pick right up on that. So with that continuity, they can spend more time working at the things that they're not very good at, including more of the undercenter stuff. So I do think they would like it to be more of a weapon. And I think they would like it to be something that they can lean on against certain opponents. When I think back to Bengals games in recent

Starting point is 00:03:22 years, and you'd have to go back and look up the numbers for this to know if I'm right, because I haven't double-checked. But it feels to me that one of their best wins over the last several years was the road win in San Francisco in 2023. And it felt like in that game, they leaned on it more, and it was very successful. And I think that's what they would like to be able to do against certain opponents that are going to play them certain ways. They would like to have that card as something that they can play and know that they can do it well. So I would anticipate in training camp, they're going to continue spending a lot of time on this in hopes of operating it more efficiently than they've been able to in the past. What a treat that the offense is so good and these guys have been together for so long, not just the players, what the coaches as well, that they can sharpen the weakest tool that they have and try to get its work.

Starting point is 00:04:18 And if not, mid-game, they could go and lean on what they've done for the last six years and feel okay with it. And guys would remember what they ran four or five years ago. So I'm with you. I'm taking a wait and see approach to see if that's really going to be something they can lean on rather than just use as a bad change up once in a while, you know. Another thing I'm waiting to see is, and I'm expecting it at this point, Dan, is the DJ Turner extension. It feels like, and it seems like they really like the way he has blossomed, not only on the field. I think he's made progress on film and all the data. The last two years for him have been an upward trajectory, but also as a player.

Starting point is 00:04:56 the way they've talked about how much he's grown as a player, the mental approach he's taken to the game, how he's turning into a leader. What do you see up close? And does it also feel that way? Like this is a priority extension for them this offseason. I think it's coming. There was a cryptic social media post by his agent that DJ amplified,

Starting point is 00:05:19 that kind of implied it might be coming sometime soon. I hope that's the case. I know they would like to re-sign them. I think that that was part. part of the reason why they restructured Joe's contract when they did to give them some more space right now to get a deal done with DJ. So I feel like it's coming. And I agree it's not just how well that he played last year, but it's how his whole personality changed. I did an interview with Al Golden fairly recently and asked him something along the lines of, was this one of the most

Starting point is 00:05:49 dramatic season-long improvements that you've ever seen? And he said, yes, but even beyond that, It was like from week one to week four. You know, suddenly he was this guy. So it's hard to find a corner that good. You've got one that you drafted and developed. Those are the guys you're supposed to try to resign whenever you can. And they've got the space to do it. So I do expect that to happen.

Starting point is 00:06:16 Getting a player extended on the defensive side of the ball should be more commonplace than it has been for the Bengals. Having a success story in DJ Turner. is a step in the right direction, assuming that that gets done. As you watched him blossom into that role that Al Golden talked about, and make sure you're checking out Dan's work on the Bengals Booth podcast, a fantastic podcast in its own right. He's with us today here.

Starting point is 00:06:43 Joe's been with him there, and Dan does great work there. But as you've watched DJ Turner grow, what were the first signs to you as someone who is covering the team so closely that he started, something started to click for him along his path as an NFL player. I think just the confidence, the change in his confidence last year was so noticeable. And I'm not sure what happened first. Did he somehow develop some internal confidence and then it carried over to the field? Or was he having success and therefore became more confident in his overall, you know, personality?

Starting point is 00:07:21 but the confidence shift was really noticeable. And he's been very vocal about how he's changed his personal routine. He's embraced, you know, meditating on a daily basis. And he takes it really seriously. You know, he's traveled all over the world in search of, you know, better techniques to do that kind of stuff. So it's helped him immensely. Other guys on the team have started doing similar things because they've seen the effect

Starting point is 00:07:50 that it's had on DJ. When Zach Taylor talked about his number change to the number zero and how, you know, Zach historically has kind of been reluctant to give defensive players these single-digit numbers because that has not been part of the Bengals history, but he gave in in DJ's case. And one of the reasons why is just because of the overall person that he's become. I think his exact words were he's everything that we want. of our players in this building.

Starting point is 00:08:23 So all of that, to me, points to a contract extension and in answering your question. I do think confidence in just the visible kind of way he's carrying himself right now is so much different from his first couple of years. The biggest stage in world soccer is here, and every match feels like it has the potential for a memorable moment.

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Starting point is 00:09:52 We're getting a lot of awards on the wall or in that mantle somewhere in the house, I'm sure of. Dan, I like to get nostalgic. you started with the Bengals in 2011, if the internet is correct. And this first year, we got our first taste of like the Marvin Lewis era, that back half Marvin Lewis era, Ring of Honor candidates in the form of Andrew Whitworth, AJ Green, Gino Atkins, some of the players that when I was a younger man, I really thought those were like the pinnacle of what Bengals football was for that, you know, that second half of the Marvin Lewis era.

Starting point is 00:10:23 What do you remember of those three guys? If people are putting those votes in for those three, what would you say like is a moment maybe sticks out for each one of them? Well, let's start with AJ Green. So when the Bengals hired me in 2011, I think they hired me in May. I was broadcasting for the Pawtucket Red Sox AAA baseball team, the Red Sox top farm club at that time. And since it was May, I didn't want to leave the team in the lurch,

Starting point is 00:10:50 you know, in the middle of the season looking for a new announcer. So I explained to my boss that I was going to be taking the Bengals job at the end of the season and that I might have to miss, well, I would have to miss a few Pawtucket games for the preseason games. But other than that, I would do everything I could possibly do to finish out the minor league season. So as a result, I was not at training camp. I was doing my homework from afar. So the Bengals draft A.J. Green. I'm, you know, reading up about AJ and watching highlights from Georgia and so forth. But I hadn't met him. So the first Bengals preseason game with me broadcasting was a road game in Detroit.

Starting point is 00:11:30 They lost 34 to 3 in 2011. But I flew from Providence, Rhode Island, which is close to Pawtucket, Rhode Island, to Cincinnati and then traveled with the team on the team plane to Detroit. So I'm standing outside the buses, getting ready to go to the Cincinnati airport, and I see A.J. Green. So I figured, all right, I'm not at training camp. I'm not going to be in the locker room until the season begins. At least this gives me an opportunity to walk up to AJ, explain that I'm the radio announcer.

Starting point is 00:12:03 You're going to be dealing with my questions, whatever I normally say when I'm breaking the ice with these guys. So I went up, we made a little small talk. And then, because I had not looked it up, I said, by the way, what does AJ stand for? And he said, Adriel Jeremiah Green. I heard that in my brain and I thought, my God, that sounds biblical to me. I've got to use that.

Starting point is 00:12:30 And obviously I did while he was with the Bengals. So that was the genesis of the whole Adriel Jeremiah Green thing. Gino Atkins, to me, would be my first pick for the Ring of Honor. I know that wasn't specifically your question, but since those guys are on the ballot now, I would put Gino at the top of that list. He's been to more Pro Bowls than any other defensive player in franchise history. To this point, right up there with Tim Crumry is the most dominant defensive tackle in franchise history. Tremendous player.

Starting point is 00:13:06 I wish he had talked to the media more. I hope that doesn't hurt his ability to get to Canton someday. It shouldn't have an impact, but sometimes it does. very early in my Bengals' broadcasting career. You know, part of what I do for the team would be a radio shows during the course of the week. We do a two-hour show every Wednesday and a three-hour show every Friday. And we often have current players join us on those shows. And I think it was my first year.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Gino came out and did a three-hour show. Well, I take that back. The show's three hours. The player only comes on for one. But he came on and did a one-hour show. And he was great. And I don't know why he stopped doing that. I think in his own mind, he doesn't think he's good at interviews, but he's fine.

Starting point is 00:13:57 After he signed his last contract extension with the Bengals, he did a news conference, and he was great. So I wish he did that stuff more often. But in any case, you know, I loved watching him play. I used to love lapse reaction to the first snap of the game when the Bengals were on defense. because inevitably, Gino would take whoever was blocking him on that first snap, especially if it was someone that he had never faced before, and just drive him back several yards. You just knew it was the beginning of a miserable day for that offensive.

Starting point is 00:14:32 Setting the tone, right? Setting the tone. And, you know, LAP's reaction to that was always great. So that's what I think of with Gino. And then with Andrew Whitworth, in my 15 years as the announcer, he's the best leader they've ever had. He might be the best leader in franchise history. He is going to the pro football Hall of Fame someday. You know, his career ended on such a great note with the Super Bowl championship and the NFL Man of the Year award. So it was awesome. I'm sorry he didn't get to

Starting point is 00:15:02 spend his entire career in Cincinnati. I think that would have been great. But he'll certainly be in the Bengals Ring of Honor someday. I guess if I were placing my vote on those three, I would go, Gino first, AJ, second, with third. but I wouldn't object to anybody that mixed that order up however they saw fit. Three more than deserving candidates for the Ring of Honor. Dan, let's talk a little bit more about some of the things that might be happening with this team on the field in 2026. I want to talk about the tight end position. This goes back to our initial topic around play action and getting under center.

Starting point is 00:15:39 There's a feel good story brewing with Eric All. I'm excited to see Jack Andrews' future. They have entrenched veterans and Drew Sample and Mike Gaseki. This group suddenly, while they're not necessarily top heavy, there's no Brock Bowers in this group. There are a number of very capable players at the role they have. And there was that significant transformation when Erichal was part of this offense and really leaned on what Erichol could do for the offense. How is that tight-end group coming together in your eyes from what you've seen from this team throughout the offseason? I think it's a Swiss Army night.

Starting point is 00:16:19 They've got a little bit of everything in the group. And let's not forget Tanner Hudson. You know, Tanner's been quietly, very productive when given the opportunity, Joe Burrow likes throwing to him. I would probably have Tanner listed above Jack Endries at this point just based on his track record to this time with the Bengals. But Eric All is the wild card, right? I mean, he's the most violent, blocking, non-offensive linemen I've ever seen in a Bengals uniform. I mean, going back to before I was the announcer, maybe there was somebody else like that. There probably was.

Starting point is 00:16:53 But during my 15 years, I've never seen anybody come on the field and immediately change the tone the way that Eric Al did in the first half of the season two years ago. The guy lives to punish people. That's what he enjoys doing. the way that coaches and teammates speak about, you know, his violent approach to the game is unlike anything I've ever heard about anybody else. So I'm taking it with a, you know, just a slight grain of salt, just to not get my hopes up too high just because of, you know, the serious repair of the knee that he went through.

Starting point is 00:17:30 The story is incredible. I mean, the job that they did at Iowa didn't work. I'm sure their doctors are competent, but for whatever reason, It just didn't work in his case. So basically they had to undo a surgery, let that heal, and then do another surgery. And I don't know if any athlete or any NFL player has undergone that and made a total recovery. So I'm going to be a little bit cautious in how I feel about Eric all at this point.

Starting point is 00:18:00 But everything so far looks good. He says he feels better than he's felt in many years, better than he's felt in many years, better than he felt at the end of his college career, better than he felt two years ago in his rookie year. So I'll take him at his word. I know the Bengals are hopeful that he can be that guy again. And if he is, he is a big difference maker. They play differently when they have him at their disposal than they do when he's unavailable to play. Yeah, no doubt. And we talked about the DJ Turner development into year three. Hopefully Eric All has that year three that, you know, would be awesome for his career and just for the comeback he you know he's experiencing another one a big one and a big

Starting point is 00:18:48 sign that they probably got offensive line fixed or on the right track definitely umarious mims their first round picked going into year three now it's to me it's funny to go talk about eric all and mims because two opposite ends of the way you watch them on tape sometimes because all is trying to run through people and mims is sort of a gentle giant out there he gets the job done but he's not the most aggressive or physical person. When you hear him talk, he sounds very pleasant and nice in these interviews. And I'm like, it just doesn't match with how huge he is. But man, did we see the progression last year into what is a hopeful year three for MIMS?

Starting point is 00:19:26 Have you seen him? What's his personality like when you talk to him in the locker room? And have you seen that slight change? Because I think towards the end of the last year, he started to get a little bit more aggressive than we saw in past MIMS highlights. Yeah, it totally makes sense, right, because of how little he played. to Georgia. That was the big story going into the draft. And I think that that applies to the way that he's played in the NFL. He was very raw as a rookie. He gradually got better and better. And now we're

Starting point is 00:19:54 seeing the evolution to the point where he's going to be a pro bowler at some point. You know, the pro bowl is unfortunately weighed heavily toward veterans with reputations. Sometimes they get into about two more pro bowl late in their career than they deserve. So it might take Amarius a few more years to get there, but then that's going to apply to him. And maybe he'll go to more than he deserves late in his career. But I think he's tracking in that direction. The thing that stands out to me is that he just makes it look so easy. I've never seen a tackle just like dominate so easily. It's so natural for him with his size and his feet and all of it. I think when coaches look back at his tape, they often chuckle, just that he's facing these elite pass rushers, and he seemingly is just

Starting point is 00:20:47 casually dominating. So, yeah, I think he can continue to play with a little bit more of an edge and probably will, but I do love his progression through two years. Really seen the offensive line gel with Scott Peters, with Dalton Riser in the lineup beside Amariousman's Dylan Fairchild's progression as a rookie as well. And speaking of guys that are going into their second years like Dylan Fairchild, who this team is really relying on, switching over to the defensive side of the ball here, there's a lot on the plate of Demetrius Knight and Barrett Carter.

Starting point is 00:21:20 And they've talked this offseason about how much better they feel going into the season, how much more confident they feel, how much more they feel they have their feet under them as we've gotten through the off season. What's the difference to you in those two guys? What's your confidence level as you've heard the way that they're carrying themselves this offseason? Well, the biggest thing that you could see at OTAs and minicamp was how much more communicating they were doing. Now, part of that was Barrett Carter was on the field with the ones all of the time. And he's the guy that's got the green dots.

Starting point is 00:21:54 So he has to do a lot of the communicating. But you just see so much more. It's so easy to detect. They're pointing. They're talking. They're moving. And as rookies last year, at this point, at least, their heads were spinning as they tried to a grasp. what Al Golden was looking for out of them on defense.

Starting point is 00:22:14 I asked Al specifically, you know, do you see a big difference in the way that they're communicating on the field? And the word that he used was unequivocally. So that's, you know, it's a good word. It's a good show off of his vocabulary, but it applies. It's so obvious in watching them.

Starting point is 00:22:33 So I think that that's going to be a big difference. And then I just think that the front is going to be so much better that that is probably the biggest reason why they are going to be better. When the guys up front are controlling the offensive line a lot better than they've been able to do the last few years, the linebackers by extension are going to have fewer guys blocking them or guys not getting to them as quickly, they'll be able to see things better, get to things more quickly, and play better. So I don't know what the ceiling is, but I think the floor is definitely raised for those two guys based on having a year of experience and based on having better players in front of them.

Starting point is 00:23:15 You've got a few things going on there, right? You've got the talent infusion on the defensive line. You've got a year two jump expected from the linebackers. You have year two of Al Golden, feeling more comfortable with his personnel and what he can do with them and how they're responding to coaching. And the hope then is that that all comes together and elevates the entire side of the defense where, yeah, there's a talent infusion, sure, but there's also the experience. and the development, and that's part of why they brought out a golden net. Yeah, and I learned from Joe, actually, on a podcast where he appeared on my podcast that you had done the research for how linebackers improve from year one to year two,

Starting point is 00:23:57 based on PFF data, more than players at any other position. And I think that's going to apply to them. I do think linebacker is a uniquely tough position to play as a rookie. and I think they took their lumps and it was noticeable. But I also think if you tracked the data for those two guys last year, over the last six or seven games, they skyrocketed and got much better. So hopefully they start at that point this year and continue to get better. Dan, let me speak for a lot of fans on social media that really are hanging sometimes at the end of practice

Starting point is 00:24:31 and waiting for your observations and your threads and your videos that are different angles than everybody else. You must get the VIP access for some of these and your videos and your take. Not just fans. Not just fans, Joe. Sometimes we're waiting for them before we do our podcast, too. 100%. Well, let's wait till Dan puts his out and then we'll go for it. But what's what about camp is the narrative that usually starts or the storyline of a player

Starting point is 00:24:56 that lights the summer on fire, right? And you're like waiting to see this guy, whether it was Mitch Tinsley last year and preseason start to make plays and make these catches. I want you to call out right now, maybe call your shot. Who do you think that might be? So we're talking bottom of the roster. Maybe he makes a few plays. Maybe it's a crazy catch or comes up with the interception.

Starting point is 00:25:16 Who could you see being that guy before we get there? Well, my guy probably doesn't have much of a chance to be on the roster because of the position group. But my guy is Dante Myers, the CFL wide receivers. So I spent a lot of time at OTAs and mini camps looking at the guys at the back of the roster to find that Mitch Tinsley. And I don't mean another wide receiver, but that guy that we're not even thinking of that winds up being a factor.

Starting point is 00:25:46 It's wide receiver. It's potentially return man. But Charlie Jones has three return touchdowns in his NFL career. So he's a strength. He's not a weakness if he's healthy. So I don't know if Dante will get his chance just because of the group.

Starting point is 00:26:01 I imagine he'll have a decent shot at being on the practice squad. But he's been impressive to me. his feet are lightning fast. I've watched him, you know, fielding punts. He seems to catch them pretty well. His CFL stats were excellent over the last year and a half. So of the bottom of the roster guys that jumped out to me,

Starting point is 00:26:25 Dante Myers is at the top of the list. Unfortunately, I picked a guy in a position group where I don't know that he's going to get much of a chance. But, hey, you never know. It's always fun to watch those guys, nonetheless. I mean, Mitch Tinsley last year was on a per highlight basis. You put his highlights up with anybody. And the highlights were incredible for him.

Starting point is 00:26:45 My last question for you, Dan, is as we're in this doldrums period of the NFL offseason calendar, we've gotten through the offseason program. But there's still unanswered questions for every team in the NFL. As you're thinking about training camp, then you're planning your own content, right? What's the biggest question that you're looking for the answer for as a the Bengals will arrive in training camp in July. I think we've covered a couple of them. I think linebacker still has to be the biggest question

Starting point is 00:27:14 just because of their overall track record last year and the fact that they didn't add anybody significant at the position. So I think that that naturally is number one. I would say offensive line depth would be number two. I love the starting five. Those guys barely missed a snap. Last year, it's hard to do that two years in a row. so at some point, somebody else is probably going to have to play.

Starting point is 00:27:40 I like the two guys that they drafted. Hopefully, Connor Liu is good to go at the beginning of training camp, and we can see if he can be the backup center, and maybe Brian Parker can be kind of the swing backup guard. I do think Cody Ford looks a lot lighter this camp than he did last camp. I think it's a contract year for him. He knows he didn't play very well last year. I think the Bengals think that if he's at his best playing weight, he can be at least a competent backup tackle, emergency tackle.

Starting point is 00:28:12 So hopefully that would be the case. But you'd still have to rank that as one of the biggest question marks just because we're so dependent right now on those starting five guys that if one of them goes down or, God forbid, more than one, now you start to wonder, okay, can this offense continue to click without those five guys that played so well together toward the tail end? of last year. You can find Dan's five observations and his coverage of the Cincinnati Bearcats and the Cincinnati Bengals at Dan underscore Horde on Twitter, his awesome Bengals Booth podcast that I've mentioned as well. Dan, we always appreciate the time, the insight, very generous of you. And you're the genesis of this podcast as well. So the generosity knows no bounds over the years. And until next time, that's going to do it for this episode the lockdown bengals podcast thanks for listening houda and have a good one

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - FROM THE BENGALS BOOTH: Dan Hoard on Joe Burrow & Play Action, DJ Turner, Lingering Questions

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