Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - IGNORING WEAKNESSES? | Bengals' needs after free agency heaping pressure on draft and coaching staff

Starting point is 00:00:00 At the combine, Duke Tobin said that he didn't want to pay more for the same team, but judging from Zach Taylor's comments at owners meetings in Florida, the Bengals are pretty close to paying more for the same team with free agency activity mostly finished. You are Locked On Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. James Rapine and we're Locktime Bengals on the Locktown Podcast Network and your team every day on

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Starting point is 00:01:10 Bengals and join the many other everydayers out there. Today's episode brought to you by GameTime where you can use code Lockdown NFL for $20 off your first purchase of tickets. And James Doc Taylor comments from coaches breakfast with the media on Monday down in Florida. And Katie Blackburn did meet with the media on Tuesday. We'll have those takeaways for you tomorrow. but James back with me after a day away yesterday. And while yesterday we spent time with Joe Goodberry talking about the draft angle of,

Starting point is 00:01:44 we're now sure there's not another guard coming before the draft, or pretty dang sure. I mean, never say never, I guess, as Callais Campbell signed today with Arizona. And that move didn't happen, for example. But now knowing this, knowing that free agency activity is mostly done because we've heard it from the horse's mouth. You could have read between lines and come to this conclusion before. That's why I've said James on this show in the last couple of weeks,

Starting point is 00:02:10 like, I'll believe there's another move when I see it. And we've talked about some other moves that would help. But let's start there, James. Haven't talked to you since then. Well, what's your first reaction? What are your thoughts around the Bengals not pending another veteran move here anytime soon? It was the biggest fear, honestly, that anyone should have, at really any point this offseason.

Starting point is 00:02:35 Like this is, it's such an important position for the Bengals because they've been so bad at it. It's been, like everyone's focused on the defense, right? Because the defense was really, really bad last year. And I get it. Guard has derailed this team at one point or another

Starting point is 00:02:53 for the entire Joe Burrow era, half a decade. It's been a big reason why they've either the season ended Joe Burrow got hurt, mixture of both, or he's taking too many hits and it's hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And then eventually it's his right tackle that cost.

Starting point is 00:03:11 You know, like, guard is the, clearly the biggest weakness on the team. And for the Bengals to continue to go into the draft. Like last year, they had multiple needs going into the draft, like major needs, like both tackle spots, right,

Starting point is 00:03:28 right tackle and defensive tackle, just huge focuses. this year, it's going to be guard and everything on defense in a draft that's really good at tight end in the first few rounds that's really good at running back. And if you say, oh, we'll take a running back in, let's just say round two, people are going to yell at you. And they're going to yell at you because they're worried about Joe Burrow in protecting him and getting after opposing quarterbacks. And those are things that you should have handled in free agency to a much greater extent. and guard is number one on that list. Also because it doesn't cost nearly as much as some of these high-end pass rushers,

Starting point is 00:04:07 like you could treat guard. Like, let's just say the Bengals don't value guard, and it's very clear they don't. You could treat guard like they've treated tight end and go with one-year veteran deals. Let's say they had signed Kevin Jenkins for one year four million. Do you feel different about the guard room? You probably do at least a little bit. And you could go year by year. You don't need to go any other route there.

Starting point is 00:04:31 I'm not asking for them to go sign a $20 million per year guard. And yet here we are again going into a draft that they're going to have to do some really good scouting from that perspective where they could just fill this hole in free agency and not really have to worry about it from a draft standpoint. Yeah, we talked about the draft impact quite a bit on yesterday's show. I was talking with Joe Goodberry there. We were talking about, well, how do you make sure you get a guard then? on day one or day two. You wait to day three. There's not.

Starting point is 00:05:03 Because you need a starter, right? You need a guy that's going to be able to play for you right away. That does force your hand. And the Bengals have a history of doing this to themselves where there is a need for someone who can play for you right away. And while it's fun and talked about this with Joe yesterday to imagine that you can get an instant impact rookie, that you can get a Jamar Chase, so you can get a Joe Burrow, that you can get a T. Higgins.

Starting point is 00:05:26 You can get a Jesse Bates. Camp Taylor Brits' rookie year. Take those examples. And get guys that can contribute for you right away. It doesn't always happen that way. And you have growing pains with rookies. Even when they're rookies that you expect to be really good in their second and third years and over the life of their rookie deals,

Starting point is 00:05:44 it's not always Sunshine and Roses for rookies in the NFL. It's a transition for most players, except for those that are truly transcendent most of the time. And there are certain positions where you can get instant impact, but they're not really the positions where the Bengals need help right now. Maybe linebacker, right? I talked about this with Joe yesterday too. But you leave yourself in that spot,

Starting point is 00:06:05 and we do have to talk about it a little bit. What do you do then if, you know, Will Johnson falls you in the first round, for example? And now you've taken a corner who maybe, say Will Johnson is a top 10 player for you. You've taken a corner who you see as a value prospect in the first round, and you still need a defensive tackle and an edge rusher and a guard that can contribute for you all in year one, a guard that can start. Now you're forcing a guard in the second round.

Starting point is 00:06:34 You want to get a guard that can start. And now you're only addressing one of those other defensive spots on day, one day two. And the talent drop-offs happen, right, between round two, round three. And so that's the prospect you're now dealing with. If there's a value faller, maybe it's a tight end that you love so much, James. you talked about this being a good tight end class. Maybe it's a Colston Loveland. Maybe it's a Tyler Warren.

Starting point is 00:06:58 They should be in on those guys, by the way. People aren't ready for it, but they should keep going. Well, and say the Bengals go that way. Yeah. And they take that player that I think the Bengals see as a luxury. I don't think that they are going to be considering it as much as we'll talk about. They should put themselves in a position where they should be able to consider it. Sure.

Starting point is 00:07:15 But say they do and they draft a player and now your second and third rounds, looking for starter, guard, and impact defensive linemen. That's a heck of a challenge that you're putting yourself in. It's nearly impossible to thread the needle the way they're trying to thread the needle. And even if they nail the draft, they're still going to, it's going to feel like, oh, well, they can still use a guy here, use a guy there, and like a real dude that can play legitimate snaps for them. And do they do that?

Starting point is 00:07:48 It, well, they should have already done it. that's what's so dumb. Like if you sign, let's say you sign Tevin. I'm going to keep bringing up Tevin Jenkins. It doesn't need to be Tevin Jenkins. It could be insert whoever, right? It could be Callais Campbell and Will Hernandez. And who knows, maybe they end up signing Will Hernandez.

Starting point is 00:08:04 But if you have another proven guy there in these spots, then you don't feel the need to force it if it doesn't fall your way. If things go much differently than expected. I'm not saying they should draft Colston Loveland, 17th overall, but they should feel comfortable with the roster enough to do that. Like, that's a much different conversation. And if you don't feel comfortable with your roster, you certainly shouldn't be shutting down the idea.

Starting point is 00:08:36 This is the other part, shutting down the idea of adding a guard or adding a piece before the draft. Like, what in what world? Like, last I checked and I get it, I miss yesterday. We do the show every day. Five days a week. Only Daily Bengals podcast. We're not just taking off until the draft.

Starting point is 00:08:58 And I get it. You got to set your draft board and all those things. But if you can make your team better, which they can in free agency still, and there's no free agency deadline, why would you say, yeah, probably not going to do anything until after the draft? Like, that doesn't make any sense to view it that way. And I've also heard this, Jake. well maybe they just don't value guard like these guards that are available the way you do James

Starting point is 00:09:23 and someone tweeted and I forget his name it's a good point it's interesting or the way Jake does or the way Joe does the way you do James and I was like well yeah they don't have the equity one

Starting point is 00:09:34 to say oh yeah we don't value these guys because they've stunk at guard throughout the Joe Burrow era and two well then what about all the other weaknesses on the roster why haven't you addressed them Like this is clearly not an evaluation thing.

Starting point is 00:09:50 This is a resources thing. And in how they view the resources that they have or don't have. And I say the don't have in quotes. Yeah. And I want to get into that a little bit more as far as the valuing of positions and players and money and all these things. We'll continue that conversation here coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time. Imagine watching your favorite team live.

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Starting point is 00:10:59 much easier to find better value because it filters out all of the unnecessary tickets so you can focus on the best values. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use Go Locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase. That's L-O-C-E-D-O-N-FL-N-FLK-N-FLK-O-N-FL-N-FL-LD-L-N-T-L-L-A-L-L-L-A-L-L-L-T-T-L-L-E-L-L-T-R-R-E-R-R-R-T-ROT. And trying not to be a broken drum about it, but the place that you're in now, a broken drum. Whoa. Broken record, but- Record.

Starting point is 00:11:34 What beat? Broken drum. I mean, it works, right? Yeah, you wouldn't want to have a broken drum. And drum doesn't. Yeah. It wouldn't sound very good if you hit a broken drum. Anyway,

Starting point is 00:11:45 you're broken drum. Yep. The Bengals are a broken drum when it comes to guard evaluation. The pressure on not just a draft, but the coaching staff and the young players is just astronomical right now. Right. And your team is not going to be perfect in the NFL. There's going to be a fall. You can pick your flaws to some degree.

Starting point is 00:12:12 The Bengals have chosen. We are not going to be flawed at wide receiver. We're not going to be flawed at quarterback. That's where we're spending our money. We're good there. We feel good about our center. We feel good about our tackles. And on offense, at least, that's a whole lot of points where you're not flawed.

Starting point is 00:12:29 But as you brought up, this idea that they don't value the guard position, I would hope that at some point that would be challenged. And I think one challenging part about finding the way to get the Bengals to consider the status quo there, where they're not considering Guard to be a high value position is they have been so bad at drafting. And it's not just guard. It's across the offensive line where we feel good about Amarius Mims. Don't get me wrong. but the track record of drafting across the offensive line is so poor.

Starting point is 00:13:13 Like, what if they hit on a guard? What if Jackson Carmen turned into a pro bowl level guard? Recordal Bowson turned into a pro bowl level guard. There you go. All right. It doesn't matter who it is. Ideally, if you're sitting down picket guard turns into a pro bowler, right? Like, that's the kind of hope you should have for a second round picket guard.

Starting point is 00:13:33 So taking away everything we know about these guys. if they become good players, say Billy Price becomes a Pro Bowl level center. And centers are position that they value more highly than guard. I have so many jokes with these guys. But I'm not even trying to be funny. I know you're not. It's not about the specific guys. It's about the investment in the position in the draft.

Starting point is 00:13:54 And then the lack of second contract players are players worthy of a second contract. Like if they have a Quentin Nelson in the building as a rookie and they see the guy play well. Are they treating them the same way they treated Kevin Zitler and Eric Steinbach and the other guards that have walked out the building? Max Montoya. Think about that. 80s. Goes back. The point is he ended his career with the rate.

Starting point is 00:14:20 He played against the Bengals in a playoff game. Like, that's wild. Like, I'm 99% sure at what, 91, right? Raiders, Bengals, 91. Am I right about that? Oh, no, it was week 13.91. Anyways, the point is the point. But, yeah, that's, when you're bringing up those guys and you're bringing up the investment and then you bring up, they've just, I mean, their last quality guard, like quality starting level guard that they drafted was Clint bowling. That's 2011, right? What were you doing in 2011? I was at the University of Cincinnati in year. three no year two year two for me at UC you I was in my my second year doing

Starting point is 00:15:13 healthcare IT work was before I left that job to work for pro football focus I think that was a year and a half later there you go all right and I worked at in insurance I was what 21 so I'm not even 21 yet just to give you the the idea there of of where it was at when they drafted their last quality starting guard. And so for them to put the pressure on themselves to say, hey, we had this super awesome quarterback and the super awesome wide receiver unit and what we're keeping Mike is sicky. And yeah, we have issues on defense, but we think the coaching staff is going to fix those. And by the way, that's a lot of pressure to your point.

Starting point is 00:15:53 But we're also going to put a lot of pressure on this new offensive line coach to either get more out of Cordell-Voson or maximize what we have in Cody Ford, we know what Cody Ford is. We know what Lucas Patrick is. And sorry, and I like Cordell, and I've been a Cordell-Voson backer, we know what Cordell-Voson is too. Like, at some point, you are what you are.

Starting point is 00:16:17 And that's not bad. I think Cordell-Vosom deserves to be in the NFL and is going to have a long career. But is he a starter and a drop-back passing offense that's going to throw it at like it's got a lot to show so that's a lot of pressure on scott peters and it's a lot of pressure on a franchise to go into a draft that honestly doesn't have a lot of pure guards anyway get ready for the guard tackle but the tackle guard process in the draft that's going to happen if they get a starting guard it's probably going to be a tackle because we did

Starting point is 00:16:46 we did talk a lot about that yesterday yeah like that topic was covered yeah buckle up because that's that's coming and that's by the way we We didn't talk about that. Like, that's now me, Jake, and Joe, all agreeing without talking about it. It just feels so risky. And maybe they have a backdoor deal where they think they can get Brandon Shurf in a month. Maybe. But again, it feels risky with something that's that precious and that important.

Starting point is 00:17:15 And you're an offense that as you keep emphasizing is the past happiest offense in the NFL, likes to go five in the pattern, likes to go five in protection. and that inevitably will leave your guys in one-on-one situation sometimes. And Joe Burrow gets rid of the ball as fast as anyone in the NFL. He is great at protecting himself in those situations by knowing what the defense is doing and getting the ball out accurately on time to an open player. As good as anyone in the NFL at that, that's a real strength of your team. But when you look at the past, trends for the Bengals, and I know they're a pass-heavy team, and this was always going to look a little bit worse than some other teams around the league.

Starting point is 00:18:03 The softness of the pocket where those guards are protecting has been an issue and was very visibly an issue in 2024 when Joe Burrow was at his best escaping pressure, and he still took a ton of hits and a ton of sacks and a ton of pressures. And so despite all those things, I don't understand how you look at what you're trying to do as an offense right now. And there's not a paradigm shift. Maybe 15 years ago, not valuing guards was a marketed efficiency that the Bengals were actually right about. But at this point, with this quarterback, with this offense, what do we have to do to get you to reevaluate some positional values

Starting point is 00:18:50 and the way you want to invest and build your roster around the pieces you have. Like, what's that going to take? Because this offseason, you've shown that you're clearly not changing your approach in free agency. So that's not changing anytime soon. I asked a question earlier this offseason, if not now, when? Not this year. So when do these other norms get changed? As they say, they consider these things on a case-by-case basis,

Starting point is 00:19:16 but continue to show certain patterns that leave us wanting. and frustrated and wondering if they've done just enough, because they'll always have enough to be frisky. But you've got to be more than that right now. That's what we're looking for. That's in that, yeah, the more, it was like the theme of the off season. Like every dares have heard me say it a ton that I was always going to ask for more. And the problem is, is like if they had done like three more moves, I would still be saying that.

Starting point is 00:19:46 like that was the mindset coming into the year and this has been pretty darn underwhelming like if the receivers which shouldn't have held up anything but if the receivers are really getting in the way of you signing guards will then tell the receivers to wait because they were on the roster they were on the team he wasn't technically under contract but he was under team control that's why you tag him and so understand your weaknesses and now going into a draft and i don't care if they had 30 have 30 picks let's dismiss that part, even though it would be easier, I get it. Like, let's say they had eight picks or ten picks like last year.

Starting point is 00:20:21 How good does last year's draft feel? Doesn't feel great. Like, and I get it, it bolsters your chances of having hits, but it's just so much pressure to get instant impact, which they've struggled to do since drafting Jamar Chase. And you could say, Amarious Mems last year, fine, but think about that. It's a tough place to be in. We'll continue the conversation coming up next. Is there a path to instant impact?

Starting point is 00:20:50 via changing the offseason plan. I just come back to this putting a ton on coaches. Oh, dude. And Zach Taylor's talking about playing starters more in the preseason. Rookies are going to play in the preseason either way. But I do want to get to that point. It's just the position they've left themselves in to fill some of the holes is tough. And that's the bottom line at this point is we'll see what happens with development.

Starting point is 00:21:22 element. We'll see what happens with some of the young players, the new defensive coaching staff. There's a lot of we'll see. Right now, we'll see what the draft brings. We'll see if they acquire more picks. We'll see what players they acquire. We'll see where those holes are eventually. But if you look at the team as it is right now, it's largely the same. They had a nose tackle. They add some Ajay P-Rine, both useful pieces. They add Lucas Patrick, all useful pieces. We're hoping for a little bit more than useful. pieces. Can you imagine if I said two months ago, hey, Jake, the Beng, the Bengals biggest free agent addition coming, external free agent addition is going to be T.J. Slayton.

Starting point is 00:22:13 98% of our audience would say who? I would have said who. I would have had to look him up. And by the way, that's fine. You're not supposed to know every nose tackle in the NFL. And T.J. Slayton is a heck of an addition. I like it a lot. They needed that, right? That's a huge need they addressed. That cannot be the standard for a team that was 9 and 8 last year and at 1.4 and 8 and started 0 and 3 and started 1 and 4 and fell to 4 and 8 when they couldn't stop Russell Wilson

Starting point is 00:22:46 and was just struggled to finish games on offense. That's why there's, there's. There's so many things here, but like this idea that, all right, well, the preseason, playing these guys in the preseason is going to help. They got so many reps last year. And I know a lot of people want to see these guys in the preseason. They got so many reps last year. And Burrow was coming back from the wrist.

Starting point is 00:23:09 So he didn't play great. You had the Jamar contract thing in that impact of Jamar clearly. T gets hurt two days before. Like sometimes it is circumstantial. And I think that Zach is doing this because he does feel the pressure. And what I really hope is if they play these guys that they avoid, you always hope that you're avoiding injury. But man,

Starting point is 00:23:31 I don't hope an injury happens because I really, I don't think it matters that much. I really don't. Like what is an extra 10 plays of preseason football going to do? Maybe it does the world. I don't think it's going to. And if you're going to play that much more, then I just think it's an in an unnecessary risk for a team

Starting point is 00:23:50 that is going to come out desperate. when you really shouldn't feel that way or go into a season feeling desperate to, more desperate than you would in any other year. You obviously want to start fast. But I just, it's something to keep an eye on. And I think people are going to be excited to see these guys more in the preseason, but I'm a bit more leery. I do understand it from the perspective that Joe Burrow gets better with reps,

Starting point is 00:24:16 live reps. And I know you can get some of that in joint practices. We'll see what the joint practice schedule looks like. this year. What or how many, if or how many joint practices they'll have? Because that's valuable too. But Joe Burroughs a guy that has repeatedly said, and I believe him when he says this, that the live reps are extremely useful for him. And it's not just getting in and out of the huddle, although that is going to be a point of emphasis for me for the Bengals this year, because getting in it out of the huddle was just such a consistent problem for them in 2024. It really

Starting point is 00:24:52 has been for a while. Like I don't know what needs to change with Zach and Joe communicating but to get the play in get those play calls in faster, but that does need to be better. Knitpicking. Joe Burrow can't start better. And he's had issues. Don't get me wrong. There there have been reasons. There have been explanations for the starts. Yep. The the calf. Health. Health, yeah. The appendix, the wrist, the ACL, there's been a lot. Hopefully we get to a regular season game without an issue like that this year.

Starting point is 00:25:33 But he gets better with reps. And so I don't know how many reps it needs to be. I don't know if preseason can give you those kinds of reps. I know. Where defenses are disguising and doing all this stuff that he needs, like it probably once. Like, defenses don't do that in the preseason. Or maybe it's just that he needs to feel something approximating game speed. And he just needs that to click back right in his brain.

Starting point is 00:25:57 I don't know what it is exactly. But he is a player that gets better with reps. No doubt. And so from that perspective, I do understand getting him reps. I do get him. And then on the defensive side of the ball, I think that there's a great argument for preseason play this year. Well, sure. Just because you're probably doing something different.

Starting point is 00:26:16 Your baseline is going to be different without goal. and than it was with Louana Ruma. And so I get it on that side. But go ahead. It's just play the defense as much you want. The season ends if Joe gets nicked up. Oh, for sure. And so that's why it's really tough.

Starting point is 00:26:37 And I know you agree. It's really tough, especially now. Let's tie it back to the beginning of the show. Hey, rookie guard, go protect for Joe Burrow in preseason game number one. And then after there's film on you, game number two, and do it against guys fighting for their NFL lives and veterans that are fighting for a job. And it's just a meaningless game, and all it takes is a play.

Starting point is 00:27:01 And that's where it's just, it's just tough because Joe can get hit in those games. And I get it. Brady played in them and you could say, fine. It is different now. And the last thing you need is another, because it's been every year, The wrist bothered Joe.

Starting point is 00:27:20 It was a topic throughout camp. It still is. Really? Into, yeah, it bothered Joe. And that's a big part of why you started so slow last year. You don't want to admit it, right? But it was. They beat New England if Joe Burrow is playing like 50% of Joe Burrow.

Starting point is 00:27:39 And he just clearly was still battling the wrist. But that also goes to his mentality in that game. Like being ready for game speed, being ready for that environment where he was fed up in that game. It wasn't just the risk to me. I'm sure that was part of the rationale for it, part of the subconscious issue there, but he was fed up in that game.

Starting point is 00:28:00 And so mentally, he wasn't where he needed to be either. And so if you can find a way to do that safely in the preseason, I'm all for it, because that is the engine for you team. Have Jake Lisco be a 12th defender rushing Burrow in practice. There you go. And Jake gets to hit Joe in the short. shoulder pad. Boom.

Starting point is 00:28:21 He will not even feel me. There's this time in high school. There's this time in high school. I tried to tackle this guy who was going to go play college basketball at Yale. He was playing quarterback in a pickup football game I was playing in. And I hit this guy running full speed, form tackle as hard as I could. I just bounced off him. Joe Burrow would not feel me.

Starting point is 00:28:41 I promise you that. That's a fun way to end what's been a not as, I mean, our shows are, I always have fun doing these, but it's annoying. It's annoying. Fast start. Hey, start fast with rookie guards. There's some stories that you're sick of talking about after veteran guards. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:04 Guard issues, starting fast. And now, like, the irony here really is like, all right, well, yeah, now we're going to hit the ground running. And it's like, okay, well, let's see you do that. Like, now you're exposing your guys. It's just there are certain guys that I would I would worry about. That's all. There's always a given take.

Starting point is 00:29:24 There's always risk. And that's what you have to manage. 20 plays, Joe. 20 plays. In so many aspects, really. And then on top of that, Zach's talking about the offseason program as well. And changes that he's anticipating in that area will be very curious to see what that looks like. He's talking a lot about like alignment again, seem to be the theme.

Starting point is 00:29:46 and getting the players more on the same page, not necessarily talking about amping up the intensity, strictly speaking for the off-season program. So we'll see what that looks like. And that's coming soon. I mean, we're almost there to off-season workouts. I mean, the draft is obviously the biggest event coming up, but off-season practices are not too far off.

Starting point is 00:30:08 And when we get there, we'll have plenty to talk about there. Tomorrow it's Katie Blackburn and takeaways from Katie down to the Oders meetings. as she spoke to the media on Tuesday as well. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, Hootay. And have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - IGNORING WEAKNESSES? | Bengals' needs after free agency heaping pressure on draft and coaching staff

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