Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - INSIDE PAYCOR: Why Cincinnati Bengals Are Different After Dexter Lawrence Move TRANSFORMED Expectations

Starting point is 00:00:00 Things feel different this time in Cincinnati. Dexter Lawrence is in town. The vibes are high, but let's talk about why and what's happening inside the building in this episode of Lockdown Bank. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm Jake Liskill, along with Joe. good, Barry, and today we're joined by Dan Horde, voice of the Cincinnati Bengals, two-time

Starting point is 00:00:41 Hall of Famer, four-time Ohio sportscaster of the year, and the list of accolades goes on and on. You can't forget the Springfield isotopes announcer for Dan Horde. A wonderful credit there. Today we're going to be talking with Dan about what's been going on behind the scenes in Paycourt that's led to the vibe shift and what exactly is happening with the growth of leadership. in the building and what's different? There's a theme of differences and changes and the high vibes are a big part of that. But before we get started, Dan, I'd love to acknowledge the story that you are so integral to the genesis of Lockdown Bengals being what it is today. And James has told this

Starting point is 00:01:25 story, of course. He told it shortly before he left the podcast. But David Locke, as I understand it, called you a long time ago to gauge your interest in the Lockdown Bengals podcast, you pointed him toward James Rupin. James Rupin eventually pointed David Locke toward Joe Goodberry. Joe Goodberry pointed David Locke toward me, and the cycle is back. And now you're here with us today for an appearance to discuss what's going on with the team. Yeah, all that is true. So this is the 10th anniversary, right, of the Lockdown Network.

Starting point is 00:01:57 So, yep, David called me 10 years ago, 11 years ago, whatever it was when he was getting this started. And I just couldn't fit it into my schedule at the time. So James was the first person that came to mind. And obviously all of you guys have taken the opportunity and run with it. I have been listening quite a bit recently. Great to have Joe back on the pod on a daily basis. So congratulations on the job you've done and turning locked on Bengals into what I believe is one of the most successful

Starting point is 00:02:25 franchises of them all. I know that pretty much every team has one. And I'm not sure that many get a bigger audience than Lockdown Bengals. So kudos to you. Thank you. We appreciate it. And we're happy to have you on here. Four-time sportscaster of the year in Ohio. And also Chautauqua Sports Hall of Famer. Yeah, I was just down there last weekend. We had a softball game. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, I'm bringing that up. But then we from the outside, you know, Jake and our, we are on the outside. We're not in Cincinnati, although we talk to Bengals fans daily, right? And it's funny, when the Dexter Lawrence trade happened, a lot of the feeling towards this team, a lot of maybe the expectation for what this team should be in 2026. A lot of things flipped for us and for the feeling and for what fans were saying and the feedback we were getting.

Starting point is 00:03:14 Your boots on the ground, you're there. Was it the same feeling for you being at Paycor Stadium every day? 100%. And let me peel the curtain back a little bit to the day that Dexter Lawrence arrived. So like everybody else, I learned on Saturday night that this trade was coming down. out in touch with my Bengals people to get some more of the details. And they said he would be arriving at, you know, X time on Sunday morning for his physical. Then he would sign the contract.

Starting point is 00:03:44 So I arranged to be there and do an interview with him one on one that day. So he walks into the building. My first impression just standing there is that he's Amarius Mims. He is a giant who's not sloppy. And let's face it, a lot of times in the NFL, when you see somebody that, the scales at 340 pounds or above, you think, all right, that's probably not great weight. But Dexter carries it so well. Jeff Hobson had a great line that day.

Starting point is 00:04:15 He said, I think of the first man I've ever seen at 340 pounds who has abs. And that's kind of what it looked like. I mean, he's very well put together for somebody who's 340 pounds or maybe even a little bit more. Then I went upstairs with Dexter and his little entourage that consisted of his wife and daughter and some Bengals personnel. And we were standing outside the Paul Brown conference room where he was on the phone with his agent going over the details of the contract. We were not allowed to be in the room for that, understandably. But while we were standing outside of that room, Zach Taylor gets off the elevator. He had just flown back into town from being at one of his son's basketball games out of state.

Starting point is 00:05:04 He made a special trip to be back there because he knew Zach, or Dexter rather, was coming into the building to sign. And when he saw Steve Redisivik from the front office who had kind of been working on the details of the contract, they had a huge embrace that just indicated how fired up Zach was that this all got done. So yeah, right from that moment, you knew that things had really changed internally, and it's been felt that way every day since. I keep calling Dexter a 340-pound massive sunshine. He's just such a positive influence in the building every day, in addition to being a phenomenal player. The ripple effect from Zach Taylor to the locker room palpable with that story as extra background. Do you think that that's the primary driver of the feeling that we've got right now?

Starting point is 00:06:00 There's also all the pressure mounting, the additional moves they made throughout the offseason and free agency, adding Boy A Maffei, Brian Cook, Jonathan Allen, a lot of talent arriving on that defensive side of the ball. But Dexter Lawrence seems to be the catalyst that really brought it all together. Is that your read as well? I think he took it up a notch. I think that a lot of the things that Joe said recently about the improved roster would have been true, even without Dexter, but let's face it, as good as Boy A. Maffei and Brian Cook and Jonathan Allen and Kyle Dugger are, they didn't move the needle to the extent of Dexter Lawrence. They've landed

Starting point is 00:06:37 one of the top, probably three players at his position at the biggest area of weakness this team has had since losing DJ readers. So it was a huge catalyst to what we're all feeling right now. So the players are brought in. It really feels like the organization is trying to support the Joe Burroughs and Jamar Chases. Even Jamar said something like that, right? It actually feels like they're trying to give us every tool to succeed from the top down in the organization.

Starting point is 00:07:11 Fans are saying all in, right, for the first time and a long time of like this team is really doing it. That leads to, I think, high expectations, maybe a little bit of pressure. But at the same time, it feels like the no distractions, the no, real holdouts this year or pending extension, even though we may get one for DJ Turner down the line. All of that is creating the good vibes. Would you say that this is a unique offseason? Because we can typically feel it at this point. And you're trying to gauge the roster, gauge what, you know, the team is heading into the camp. Does this feel different? Or is it more

Starting point is 00:07:44 like in line of 2022 where expectations were high. And coming off that Super Bowl year, everyone's like, yeah, if they go one more step, this could be anything. Or this, to me, it feels different. But Dan, I wonder if you're thinking 2022 or if you have another season, that's comparable. 2020, a little bit, 2015 a little bit, the year that they were so good before Andy Dalton broke his thumb. I think those would be the two closest comps. But this one feels a little bit different because it's a combination of having missed the playoffs the last three years. So that has increased the pressure. And then I think the tone that's being sent, or set rather, by

Starting point is 00:08:25 borough when borough comes out publicly and says i feel similarly about this team as to how i felt going into 2019 with lSU and then challenged us to go back and look at some of the things he said prior to 2019 which i did when he told people that get used to lsu scoring 40 50 60 points a game which they then did on route to going 15 and O and winning the national championship, I think that has made it feel a little bit different even from 2015 and 2022. The biggest stage in world soccer is here, and every match feels like it has the potential for a memorable moment.

Starting point is 00:09:07 One goal can completely change the energy of a game, shift momentum, and alter the outcome in an instant. That's what makes tournament soccer so exciting from the opening whistle until the final kick. Now, FanDuel is giving fans another reason, and stay locked into every match with every goal pays. Bet on a match and get bonus bets for every goal scored in that match. More goals means more bonus bets.

Starting point is 00:09:31 All you have to do is turn in your token. We're on to the next round, and this is when it gets really exciting and really fun, right? You got teams and national teams and fans of their countries looking at these games and watching these games and the excitement in the stadium is unmatched, and all it takes is one goal to change everything. and now you get the benefit from that goal.

Starting point is 00:09:53 From the opening whistle to the final kick, let there be goals on Fanduel. Visit fanduel.com to get started now. Can you recall a season when pressure felt higher around this team as well? I mean, and I don't mean that in a bad way either, Joe Burrow has welcomed that pressure, obviously, in his press conferences, but between the coaching staff, the players, the front office, making the moves they made, can you recall a season

Starting point is 00:10:16 in your time covering the team that it felt like this? You know, I don't know that I necessarily use the word pressure in that way. I think expectations, absolutely. The expectations are high and should be high. I don't get the feeling being there that Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin are walking around, feeling like their head is on a chopping block if things don't go well. We know this franchise is unusually patient with coaches and executives. And I don't know that that's changed.

Starting point is 00:10:48 despite what Mike Brown said in the news conference, or rather in the press release after they elected to bring back Zach and Duke. But, you know, I think people at that level put pressure on themselves. Nobody wants the Bengals to succeed more than Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin. As much as, you know, we care about it and think that we do, you know, these guys are obsessed with this stuff every day. So sure, there's some external pressure being applied. But again, I don't get this feeling.

Starting point is 00:11:18 that like Zach is thinking, man, if I don't get to the AFC championship game this year, I'm toast. Burrell seems to be taking some of that himself, right, with his talk of leadership and changing his style, mean leadership, almost being more direct with guys, maybe more demanding. It's hard to get a read for that. And from the outside, I think it's hard to get a read from Burrow.

Starting point is 00:11:41 You've interviewed him and talked to him a ton of times. Like, what is something that maybe we don't understand about him from the outside and maybe when it comes to leadership as well. Yeah, I think he's looked at the last three years and he's said publicly, he said this toward the end of last year, we've got to change things because what we've been doing isn't working. So not only was that a message to the entire organization that we've got to make some personnel changes, I think he's the type of guy that self-evaluates and tries to figure out what do I need

Starting point is 00:12:12 to do differently or better. And I think he's decided that what he needs to do differently is be, in his words, meaner as a leader, maybe hold guys a little bit more accountable than he has. I think Joe's always been a really good leader in the sense that he bonds with everybody. You know, we've kind of famously told the anecdote about if you're in the cafeteria on a daily basis. He's moving from group to group. He's not always sitting with the same guys every day. He's really good at, you know, trying to.

Starting point is 00:12:44 to be connected to everybody on that roster. But I do think that he is trying to be a little bit more stern or mean in the way that he leads. And I saw little evidence of that during the OTAs and the mini camps. I can specifically recall, you know, one play. It's only one snap, but one play where either a guy, you know, had a false start or something went wrong that blew up the play. And Joe normally would not be happy about that, obviously. But in this case, he fired the football into the ground, pissed off, visibly pissed off, that they were not able to execute the snap of that particular play. So that's one snap in OTAs. Maybe it's not a great example, but it was something a little bit different from what I've seen out of Joe Burrow over the last six

Starting point is 00:13:34 years. Yeah, and that is something that I'm curious to see develop as well. Joe talked about what went into it, the genesis of that leadership. And it's one of several things that, is a vibe shift. Speaking of vibes, I just want to gauge your feeling on this as you think about your career covering the Bengals. We all get feelings about how good a team is going to be in June. Through the offseason program, we have an idea.

Starting point is 00:13:57 We think we get a picture of what's to come. When you reflect on your time covering this team because you are as close as anyone covering this team, and you think about how you felt about them in June in past years, you think that that usually translates pretty well to how the season ends up playing out? Hard to say because of Joe Burroughs injuries. You know, I've felt pretty good about this team since 2021

Starting point is 00:14:23 when we knew that Joe was capable of beating anybody if the Bengals were able to advance to the postseason. But so many of these seasons have been blown up by his injuries, June projections really don't apply. I mean, I thought this team was going to be good last year. He missed nine games. I'm looking for Wood to knock on here. If he avoids injuries this year, I think they're going to be really good.

Starting point is 00:14:48 If he misses nine games, they probably won't be now with Joe Flacco. You know, they have a chance to stay afloat if he misses a few. Again, I'm knocking on something, hoping that that doesn't happen. But those June projections, they only go as far as Joe Burroughs health. Dan, I'm also curious about you in your job. You know, I know you do stuff for UC, the football team, basketball as well, you call games. When the schedule comes out, are you like immediately cross-checking?

Starting point is 00:15:19 Like, what's your process? Because I assume you get extremely busy on certain weeks. Like, do you immediately say like, oh, I can't do that game and let somebody know? Or is it like, man, I've got, for all seven days this week, you tell your wife, like, I won't see you much at all. Well, I'm not going to see her much at all, which she's fine with. I think she likes that time of the year. But yes, NFL schedule release day is literally my most stressful day. of the year because I jokingly refer to my fall as my own version of the amazing race.

Starting point is 00:15:50 I've got to get from UC's game on Saturday to the Bengals game on Sunday. And some weekends, it's easy. When UC plays on the road, I have the opportunity to fly back with the team on the team charter. So if the Bengals are home the next day, I might not get any sleep if the Bengal or if the bearcats rather are playing out west, but I'll know that I'll make it. But when the Bengals are on the road, if you see is on the road, it can be very tricky. So getting back to what I said, that's a very stressful day for me when the NFL schedule comes out. Because at that point, I'll already have the University of Cincinnati's schedule.

Starting point is 00:16:27 I'll know where they're going to be. So from that standpoint, I can start to see, all right, this weekend could be challenging. But the other tricky thing about college football is that the times don't come out in advance. like the NFL schedule. In college football, it's 13 days in advance, and in some cases, it's a week. The networks are allowed to have a certain number of games with a one-week window. So I do most of my planning, but a lot of times I can't book flights or really specifically know how I'm going to get from point A to point B until I have that UC game time, 13 days in advance or one week in advance. So I've got a pretty good sense of how things are going to work out this year.

Starting point is 00:17:14 I know I'll have to miss Cincinnati's game at Houston because the Bengals will be in Madrid the next day. So that's one that I physically can't possibly make. Other than that, I don't expect to miss any other University of Cincinnati games. I'm just hoping that the game times allow it to be a relatively easy process and not too many all-night drives in order to get where I need to be. The game times, all night drives, air travel. I was going to ask about the Madrid game. Sounds like that one's a pretty cut and dried solution. But what I'm hearing is that there should be a little bit more appreciation

Starting point is 00:17:51 for the amount of work you're doing to make sure you're at all these games for the fine folks in Cincinnati who hear you covering the Bearcats and the Bengals. That's not something that I necessarily considered as much as perhaps I could have. Let's talk a little bit about the leadership that's emerging on the defensive side of the ball, because this is something that is particularly interesting, given your position in the building and seeing how these guys interact and seeing these guys on a regular basis. From the outside, it looks like Dexter Lawrence and Brian Cook,

Starting point is 00:18:23 and some of these veterans are stepping into leadership roles on the defense. DJ Turner might be there as well. BJ Hill might be there as well. How have you seen the leadership group coalesce throughout the offseason so far with so many of the guys that appear to be stepping into those roles? being new additions through free agency. Jake, I think it's a great topic for this reason. At some point last year, late in the season,

Starting point is 00:18:47 Zach Taylor at a news conference, I don't even think it was prompted. I don't remember what the question was, but brought up how they needed to improve the leadership on defense. Then Duke Tobin did his news conference shortly after the season. They long awaited Duke Tobin news conference immediately after a season, and he brought up the lack of leadership on defense. and that's one of those things that's hard to quantify, right?

Starting point is 00:19:13 There's no PFF column for defensive leadership. You observe it. You try to see what it's like and how good it is. But again, it's something that's difficult to quantify. So I think to a certain extent, even when Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin said that, it wasn't the thing that the media focused on because it's difficult to quantify. But then I look at the guys that they've signed, and to me, they all. all look like great leaders. I know Brian Cook is one because I observed him for a couple of years

Starting point is 00:19:45 at the University of Cincinnati. And even though he wasn't a captain, he would have been if he didn't transfer in from Howard University. They had other guys that had been there, had been there for four or five years that elevated to the captaincy. Otherwise, Brian Cook definitely would have been a captain on those teams. But Dexter was a captain with the Giants. We've already seen his leadership qualities since he's been with Cincinnati. He hasn't missed a single day with somebody with his stature, which I think was really telling. But the time I've spent with Boy A. Maffe seems to be a great leader. Jonathan Allen, proven vet, multi-time pro bowler with great leadership qualities.

Starting point is 00:20:28 I think Kyle Dugger fits that description. To me, that's kind of the sneaky edition. I don't know how big his role will be initially, just because, you know, they've They've got Brian Cook and Jordan Battle at safety, but I imagine they'll find a way to get them on the field for a lot of snaps. And I think all of those guys have addressed that void in leadership. You look at some of the guys that they had on defense, Trey Hendrickson was a tremendous player, one of the best pass rushers in Bengals history. But Trey was a bit of a loner. I don't think he detracted from the leadership, but that was not.

Starting point is 00:21:07 his personality. He, you know, he ran to the beat of his own drum. Logan Wilson, great person, great player, but not a big vocal leader type. I think all of these additions are noticeably more better in alpha type leaders than the guys that they've replaced. You know, you pretty much covered what the follow-up was going to be there. The guys that are maybe leaders off the or guys that lead by example with their play sometimes. It's not always lead by example by doing the right thing all the time. Sometimes guys are just a playmaker and you can follow that, right? And people rally around the guy who's really good on the team

Starting point is 00:21:49 and it's hard to really understand sometimes I think when coaches or anyone speaks, like we need leaders. Sometimes you need a playmaker too to lead the team. You need that. It feels like they've gotten those guys, which leads me to my next question then. And thinking of the Zach Taylor era, it feels like we're going to remember the Joe Brub,

Starting point is 00:22:07 the Jamar Chase, the T. Higgins, you know, as like the Mount Rushmore. I don't know who that fourth guy is. That's really not my question. That's a topic for another day. But if you were to think of some of your best calls or the biggest moments of the Taylor era, I feel like a lot of them would be on the defensive side. When I say that, which plays come up in your mind? And it's got to be like the Sam Hubbard return or maybe some playoff, but a lot of defense, right? Yeah, I mean, if you look back to the Super Bowl run in 2021, I think one thing that many people forget is that the final defensive play of all three playoff wins was an interception. Pratt

Starting point is 00:22:45 against the Raiders, Logan Wilson against Tennessee, Von Bell off to deflection against Kansas City in the AFC championship games. So those are the last defensive snaps of all of those games, all takeaways that either clinch the win in the Raiders case or led to the winning points in the other two games. My favorite game and because of that, my favorite call was the Pratt interception, even more than the fumble in the jungle, just because of the cathartic moment that came with it. You know, we all had this built-up angst,

Starting point is 00:23:22 if you're old enough to be, you know, 30 years older, 30 years or older to have experienced that long playoff drought. And even if you didn't go back to the very beginning of it, I think a lot of people listening to this or watching this, were Bengals fans during the Marvin Lewis era when they kept getting to the playoffs and couldn't get over the hump and win a game. So everybody felt it that night at Paycor. Will they finally get this monkey off their back and win a playoff game? And they did. Pratt's interception clinched it.

Starting point is 00:23:56 It sounds so shallow to say this, but I think sports fans can identify. It's literally one of the happiest moments of my life. I mean, the birth of my son, my marriage, you know, I have to say that those are better, right? And I think I believe it. But that interception, that's definitely way, way up there because of just the sheer catharsis that we all experience getting that playoff monkey off our back. I was there at that game. I felt that the feeling and the silence, it was a weird murmur after because it had to be sobbing, crying, people hugging, but the silence afterwards. And I remember listening to your call, listening to Mike Toriko's call,

Starting point is 00:24:37 because I think he's had some big moments as well. Do you ever go and listen to those guys and be like, you know, enjoy it and other announcers, maybe a national TV announcer's call? Because they, again, I think you guys nailed those moments in what they meant. Well, I always go back and watch the games. And as a result, I do hear the calls. Sometimes I enjoy it. Other times I'm like, damn, his was so much better than mine,

Starting point is 00:25:00 which I think was the case on the fumble in the jungle. Tariko was so great on that Sam Hubbard call, the Cincinnati kid, just spectacular stuff. And Mike was one of my Syracuse University buddies back in the 80s. So coming from him, I don't feel quite as badly because I like them and respect him so much. But yeah, I do go back and watch the calls and enjoy the calls. I thought that Jim Nance's call of Evan McPherson's field goal that sent the Bengals to the Super Bowl in the AFC championship, game was tremendous. He said something along the lines of, and this was just before the ball was

Starting point is 00:25:39 kicked, you know, a few weeks ago, this is a moment that would have seemed incomprehensible. And that's just a great way of setting it up. And then, you know, McPherson kicked it through and the Bengals are going to the Super Bowl. It's one of the best things about sports. You get these moments that are totally outside of your control, watching other people do this thing that you have poured your heart into. And obviously, Dan, you make this better for every single fan out there that listens to your calls and so do Mike Torrico and Jim Nance and all the greats. But when we also get to experience those moments, you get to experience that moment that you'd liken to the best in your life. That's the magic of sports, right? That's what we get

Starting point is 00:26:18 from this thing where so much of our life are things that we can control, but something about sport and football, this thing that is totally outside of our control that has such a huge impact on us. And it's great to have you being a big part of that too. You know, there's a book out right now called Big Fan. I just got back from vacation a couple of days ago, and that was the book that I read on flights and train rides, co-written by Joe Posnansky, a great sports writer, used to work for the defunct Cincinnati Post,

Starting point is 00:26:48 and Michael Shore, who is a Hollywood writer-producer of such shows as The Office and The Good Place and other shows. So they've co-written this book called Big Fan, and kind of the theme of the book is getting to the root of fandom. And they go all over the world to sporting events, ranging from the world darts championships, world chess championship, Premier League soccer matches.

Starting point is 00:27:19 They go all over the place to get to the root of fandom. And it's exactly what you're talking about. Why is it that these things that we have no control over mean so much to us, But they do. And as Bengals fans, one of the reasons why that victory over the Raiders meant so much was the pain that we endured getting to that moment. And when the Bengals win a Super Bowl, and I do believe it's going to happen in the Joe Burrow era, hopefully this coming February, just think of how much more special it's going to be for all of us because of what we've endured to get to this point. And it's going to be so great when it happens and so special.

Starting point is 00:28:00 to, you know, witness a Super Bowl parade in Cincinnati. Let's hope about February 17th of next year, that's exactly what we're all doing. We're going to dig in. You get to narrate the memories for those Bengals fans when it happens. So, I mean, envious of your position doing that and how when people think of those moments, it'll be your voice in the back of their head doing it.

Starting point is 00:28:22 Yeah, it's a tremendous blessing. You know, it's what I always dreamed of doing when I was a kid, not necessarily as the voice of the Bengals, but being the voice of a team. A lot of people will ask me, did you ever try to get a job doing games on ESPN or CBS or whatever? And I've talked to networks about that kind of stuff. But I enjoy doing what I do

Starting point is 00:28:44 because I have a vested interest in the outcome. If you're doing the game of the week on CBS, you can't show any bias. otherwise, you know, half of the audience is going to be ticked off. You have to try to play it down the middle, even if deep down you have a bit of a rooting interest. But I don't have to do that on Saturday doing UC games or Sunday doing Bengals games. I'm broadcasting Bearcat and Bengals games to Bearcat and Bengals fans. And my style is not wildly over the top, but I think it's obvious who I want to win.

Starting point is 00:29:23 and when the Bengals and Bearcats win, I'm elated, just like everybody else. And when they lose, I'm depressed and pissed off, depending on the outcome of the game. And that makes my job more fun for me. Doing a national game would be more lucrative. There are more eyeballs. There's something to be said for that. But strictly in terms of fun, this is the best job going. This has been a lot of fun, too.

Starting point is 00:29:48 We're going to have more with Dan. We're going to talk about some of the things he saw throughout the off-season program. and some of the other differences, perhaps some of the on-field differences, maybe some DJ Turner talk. We'll have more with Dan Horde next time on Lockdown Bengals. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hoot. And have a good.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - INSIDE PAYCOR: Why Cincinnati Bengals Are Different After Dexter Lawrence Move TRANSFORMED Expectations

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.