Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow Happy in Cincinnati, but Questions Will LINGER Until Bengals Get Right

Starting point is 00:00:00 Sometimes you really feel for Joe Burrow. He had a bad day at a press conference over a month ago and comes back, goes to the promo with his buddies. Now he's asked again, are you happy, Joe? Let's get into it. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans. And welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:35 the number one sports podcast network in the land. He's James Rapine. I'm Jake Liscoe. We're your host of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, covering your Cincinnati Bengals going all the way back to 2016, your best consistent everyday one-stop shop for all things Bengals on the internet. And the everydayers know it. Shout out to all of you who make Lockdown Bengals part of your everyday routine

Starting point is 00:00:58 and all of you who make us your first listen today. Well, the Pro Bowl games occurred on Tuesday night. You might have missed it. It didn't seem to have a terribly large audience from what I could tell, James, but Joe Burrow, Jamar, Chase, C. Higgins, Joe Flackhill, were out there doing their thing and filling up the box score for the AFC and what eventually turned into a huge comeback win for the NFC in a weird turn of events in the second half. But part of that included Joe Burrow being asked on the sideline again.

Starting point is 00:01:33 And we're at least a month removed now, right? Are you happy, Joe, amongst people making up ridiculous trade scenarios and all these things. I guess this is just something that Bengals fans have to live with at this point. And again, the everydayers have heard us talk about this a ton. If you aren't every day and you're interested in expanding what your level of engagement is with the Lockdown Bengals podcast community, you want to get into a consistently available Lockdown Bengals every day or chat. You can check out the Everydayer Club. You also get an ad-free audio version of the podcast.

Starting point is 00:02:10 You can check that out at LockdownBengles. That supercast.com for those details. But James, were you surprised at all that the one interview that we got with Joe Burrow, and I think they talked to Jamar Chase. I'm sure they talked to T. Higgins. Those guys were there for the practices, so a little bit more documentation around their presence in California for the Pro Bowl. but we get one interview with Joe Burrow.

Starting point is 00:02:33 And I think Butch talked to him after the game too. But one on TV and the one question that goes out and there's clips of is, are you really happy in Cincinnati, Joe? I think it's perfect. I think that's the only question that really needed to be asked outside of like, I would wonder, and you saw that scramble on the first drive, he scrambles for the touchdown. It's the throwback.

Starting point is 00:02:59 It's not open. Does like, how's the toga doing? You're wearing that plate? Like, those are things I would ask, which he would, I'm sure, love to answer. But outside of that, from a national standpoint, what is the narrative around Joe? It is, is he happy? And I don't think it's just because of that press conference. I think in Joe's mind, it's that.

Starting point is 00:03:22 I think when you mix the press conference on his birthday, when before I had even went to Peacor Stadium, I wrote, man, clock's ticking. Joe's 29. They're going to miss the playoffs for a third straight year, all of those things. And then we go into that press conference and he's talking about being happy and everything that goes into playing. And it just, it opened up the door even more. But there's been speculation about Joe Burrow.

Starting point is 00:03:45 There will continue to be speculation about Joe Burrow. And there's one main reason why. Because he's like a top three quarterback on the planet. And maybe he's one for you. Maybe he's two. Maybe he's three. I've had some say six or seven. or whatever. Even then, it's really, really hard to find. There's one other team in the division

Starting point is 00:04:04 in the past decade that's had it, and that's Lamar Jackson, in the past decade. Like, that's a long time for teams that are considered well run with the Steelers and obviously the Ravens to look at it that way. So it's hard. It's hard to find guys like him. And so, one, I get the question. Two, I love the answer. And I loved how, because everything gets, psychoanalyzed and looked at and put through a fine tooth comb when it comes to everything Joe Burroughs says. And I'm part of that. But he's like, yeah, man, I was just having a bad day, which everybody can relate to, every, every day I can relate to, you can relate to it. I can relate to it. You've seen me when I'm super annoyed, like, man, I can't believe whatever happened today. And then we've got to do

Starting point is 00:04:50 the show. And no one knows that when we're doing the show, why I'm in a bad mood, you might know. sometimes you might not know but guess what we're all human and so that's all that was that day uh and i think that is the case by the way behind the scenes in that moment uh i i think that's all it was it wasn't oh my god jo's unhappy and he wants out of here and all of those things but that's where the narrative will go when joe does things like that because he's one of the elite football players on the planet. And there's just the entire national context around the Bengals and the way the Bengals are covered, especially when things aren't going well. I mean, I wonder what kind of sustained run of success they would have to have for any of that to change. I guess it changed a little bit

Starting point is 00:05:36 during the Andy Dalton five straight playoff run years where not really though. But like there was some conversation, you know, about like, oh, they're drafting well. And now suddenly the Bengals are doing everything the right way. But like, even that was pretty surface level, right? the people that cover the things that the Bengals haven't changed are on this podcast. And some of the other local journalists and content creators do this to some degree as well. So I'm not going to say it's only us. But the people that are talking about like, yeah, well, the way they structure contracts hasn't changed ever. They've never done a restructure.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Like these are things that I've said. And these are things that we've said on this podcast. But it's not like that bit is widely covered. And so the national pendulum on the Bengals is really how well have they been doing for how long? When the Bengals went to two straight ASE championship games and won one of them, the narrative was different. And since then, they've missed a playoffs three years in a row. So the narrative has gone with that. And I mean, I think you even see that with the Patriots, right?

Starting point is 00:06:39 Like Tom Brady leaves a Patriots, Bill Belichick leaves a Patriots, and suddenly the Patriots are kind of a punchline until they figure things out. and their downside was much shorter, but the national media is always going to go that way where they're reacting to these short-term trends. We're always reacting to the long-term trends. That's why you're with us here on lockdown Bengals. And I think this is just a reality of the Joe Burrow era,

Starting point is 00:07:05 and that is going to be part of the scrutiny that you deal with when Joe Burroughs are a quarterback, because he is a superstar that is at this height that you haven't really had in Cincinnati, and the expectations are what they are because you made that Super Bowl. You made that second AFC championship game with him as your quarterback, and now you've fallen so short of expectations. So additional spotlight on the Bengals because of those guys and because of Joe,

Starting point is 00:07:30 but also because of, I think, Jamar Chase T. Higgins' presence on the team and the star power they have on offense and the expectations to go along with that. But one thing that stood out to me, James, as you were discussing this and how the other teams in the division haven't had it. It just goes to show that, yeah, those teams are considered well-run teams. Nobody in the stretch of the Steelers winning no meaningful games, getting to the playoffs and then losing. Did anyone really outside of Pittsburgh?

Starting point is 00:07:58 And I know Pittsburgh journalists and Pittsburgh creators have been critical of Pittsburgh for sticking with Mike Tomlin for so long, for example. But outside of Pittsburgh, it's been, yeah, Pittsburgh is a well-run organization. Yeah, Baltimore is a well-run organization. Part of that is that they're putting together competent teams despite limitations elsewhere on the roster. And that's why Pittsburgh has been able to win all the games they've won. If the Bengals were able to build their team up,

Starting point is 00:08:28 the way Pittsburgh was able to build around a quarterback that was lacking, given similar financial restraints in terms of long-term trends, but more money to play with perhaps because they're paying less to their quarterback, but the development that you see time over time in Pittsburgh, right? Like if the Bengals have that on the defensive side of the ball, they're talking about playoff games the last few years, not talking about falling so short of expectations. So it just came to mind as you were talking about it, James,

Starting point is 00:08:55 the importance of building the team and not just having Joe Burr, like you need to do more than just having the quarterback. Well, they went one and eight. They are allowed to go one and eight with me at quarterback, but not one and eight. because Joe Burrow is out. That's unacceptable. They're like,

Starting point is 00:09:15 Brian Callahan got fired because he was one and eight in Tennessee or whatever it was, right? Like they went one and eight. It was the Cardinals, one and eight during that same stretch. The Titans won and eight and Callahan was fired during that. Gannon fired at the end of the season and a lifeless Cardinals team came to Paycor and the Bengals kicked the snout out of them. And then this Bengals team.

Starting point is 00:09:35 And so you're right. You got to be able to win some games if Joe's knicked up or if you have this deficiency here this weakness because guess what there isn't a perfect roster we're going to see two teams play in Super Bowl 60 that aren't perfect rosters Sam Darnold isn't an elite quarterback. Drake May's been awful in the playoffs even though I think he has a chance to be one of those elite quarterbacks and yet both teams won and they're playing for a championship on Sunday I have some thoughts on Joe on the national narrative on that that perception that you're talking about and why it's not going anywhere anytime soon coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:12:26 there's always going to be speculation that they're unhappy. And Yonis Atentacumpo and Milwaukee, it's very similar to that. There's been speculation for years and years and years and years. Oh my God, he's going to get, He's moving out of Milwaukee. You're going to move out of Milwaukee. He might be traded by the time people hear this or watch this. And the NFL from a quarterback standpoint, I think, is becoming more like the NBA.

Starting point is 00:12:48 Not fully. There's 53 guys on a roster. It's not of a 15-man roster, 10-man rotation. It's much different in the NBA from that perspective. But like the Joe Burroughs, the Patrick Mahomes is the true stars in the league, they do have power. and that's part of it. What does Joe think? I've often referred to him as the most important man in the building at Paycor.

Starting point is 00:13:16 And man, woman, doesn't matter. Most important person in the building. And it's true because it's really, really hard to find that. You can find owners and coaches and receivers and offensive linemen. It's really, really hard to find a guy of Joe's skill set and talent level and leadership ability and everything that he brings. And so when you have that and you're in. in a market that isn't known for all of its winning. But if Joe Burroughs in New England, we're not talking about this,

Starting point is 00:13:44 even though from a true spend standpoint, the Bengals would be like, we've spent like New England has over the past decade. We've done that. We didn't do it last off season, but overall we've done that. That's what they would say. And yet the perceptions are much, much different.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Why? Well, because one's one, one hasn't. And so that's the ultimate thing. If you win with Joe, all of this is over. All of this ends, and you've got to consistently do it. And they haven't. They've missed the playoffs more than they've made the playoffs, which is unacceptable. I don't care if Joe Stubbs his toe misses some time.

Starting point is 00:14:17 I'm obviously downplaying a serious toe injury. You've got to be able to overcome it. And the good organizations, the good teams would. The Bengals haven't been good. And that's where the pressure comes now is Joe might be happy and saying, oh, yeah, I'm happy in Cincinnati. And he is, I believe, happy in Cincinnati. but he's not going to be happy forever because he wants to win.

Starting point is 00:14:39 And you need to give him what he needs to realistically win and go out there and compete for championships. Well, it does go back to what Duke Tobin said that it isn't just Joe. And I'm not agreeing with Duke Tobin here. I don't think downplaying Joe's importance was a good idea. But he wasn't entirely wrong when he said that, right? Like, yeah, quarterbacks definitely drive this league. but we've seen what happens when the team isn't good enough. Because last year, going back to 2024,

Starting point is 00:15:11 Joe was healthy. Offense was great. Wasn't good enough. You need to be good enough to overcome the bits of adversity you have. You need to find ways to close games. We talked about this on the squad show yesterday. The Bengals defense, the Bengals team, closed out one close game. it was in week one the defense gets a stop and the browns can't drive and then in week two you get all the crazy

Starting point is 00:15:42 interceptions and fourth down stops against jacks i mean that's just a crazy game that happens and maybe you can credit them for that too but then they didn't close it clean so there's all these issues that the bengals had to fix this off season to do right by joe but also right by the organization right because Joe isn't there forever you're right he he gives them their best chance to win right now but you have to build the team it's still a team sport and it's going to be the same conversation that we're talking about when we get to the salary cap and we're going to talk about the amount of money they can spend and how many starters they can afford to pay on the defensive side of the ball and free agency and we look forward to their absolute lack of contract commitments in

Starting point is 00:16:28 In 2027, that will obviously change this offseason, but they have a lot of work to do because they have some guys that are awesome, right? We saw that during the Pro Bowl games, just to touch on the Pro Bowl flag game. We saw Jamar Chase, scoop a pick six, a foot off the turf with one hand and take it the other way when he got out there and played defense. We saw what T and Jamar could do as receivers. We heard these other players talk about how special those guys are. And they put on a bit of a show. I mean, what was it they were involved in 40 of the AFC's first 52 points or something like that?

Starting point is 00:17:08 Bengals players. I think I saw the stat. I think Jeff Hobson had that one because he's out there, of course, covering it. He's there talking to those guys. And I had a pretty fun story about it at Bengals. com, a lot of fun quotes in there. But got to build the team around those guys because those guys are special. you have some special players like Duke said you just got to build the whole team you can't have one side of the ball that's such as zero as it has been to the last couple of years yep yeah and that's it and that's where the pressure is is they can be a championship level team with their stars but they have to fill out the roster they failed out at last off season last off season was a complete failure like I honestly I can't believe and we said it I remember there were people that were

Starting point is 00:17:57 would reach out like, man, you're being so negative. And it's like, well, and then you see the results. And it wasn't just Joe got hurt. They lost to the Browns in the final week of the season. Embarrassing. That should never happen. It should never have happened. I don't care if Sador Sanders is a pro bowler, throwing touchdowns and all those.

Starting point is 00:18:14 I don't care. So, yeah, I think it's hopefully a reminder. Like Joe Burrow, yeah, he's happy, but you better tick, tick, you better do what you need to do. And if you do that, well, then let's see what Zach Taylor's made of. And I think that's part of it here. I think Joe Burrow behind the scenes was probably like, what do you expect Zach to do? What do you expect Al to do?

Starting point is 00:18:40 What do you expect these guys to do when there's clearly a lack of talent, like glaring holes, like not just weaknesses, glaring holes that need to be filled? And so we'll finish things up with talking about Zach Taylor and his return for a year eight, eight, Jake. Think about that. That's a lot. We'll do that coming up next.

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Starting point is 00:21:31 That's QUO.com slash locked on NFL quo. No miscalls. No missed customers. James, Zach Taylor and I share an anniversary. Every dayers. Congratulations. Thank you. Zach and I started the jobs on the same day.

Starting point is 00:21:53 I hope to outlast Zach. But actually, you know what, if Zach manages to outlast me, something will have gone very right in Cincinnati or very wrong for me. Anyway, I hope it's a very right category. Either way, Zach Taylor has been the head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals for seven years. He's in his eighth year now. Officially the same day I started doing this podcast,

Starting point is 00:22:21 that's a shared anniversary. And always like to reflect on this day when this anniversary comes up about how things have been going into Zach Taylor. Yeah. It's wild to think. I mean, it feels I remember. So I obviously wasn't covering the team day to day then. And I just just left Cincinnati a few weeks prior. But I remember watching his introductory news conference. It was after the Super Bowl and it was getting a lift in shocker for those that wondering. But I was like, wonder how it's going to go. And you know what's funny? They went to Seattle that week one. And I was like, wow. I was like, they got John Ross going. They should have won that game. Are they good? And then week two was the 49ers game.

Starting point is 00:23:09 And it was like, no, they're not good. It was that quick. Well, you never know. It's like, oh, well, this young offensive mind, like, gets more out of Andy and the breeze new life into this offense. And they go to Seattle and they should have won. And they had Russell Wilson on the ropes. And then, well, then they were beaten into reality there, that week two game at home

Starting point is 00:23:29 against the 49ers. But, yeah, it's been, it's been wild. If you would have told everyone that day that he got hired seven years ago, hey, you're going to go to a Super Bowl, you're going to go to an AFC championship game, you're going to win a couple of division titles. Everyone would have signed up for it. At the same time, when you look at it now objectively, it's like, well, Joe was everything you could have wanted and then some. You lost enough to get him. And Joe wasn't even on the certainly not first, second, third round radar, probably day three, late day three radar. for the 2020 draft when Zach was hired.

Starting point is 00:24:07 This was the Tuable. This was like, oh, to a tongue of Iloa, maybe Justin Herbert. But Joe Burrow burst onto the scene. So it just, it shows how quickly things can change. And man, it feels like, and it was years ago, but ages ago since Zach was hired. The year that he benched Andy Dalton on his birthday, Ryan Finley played three games. Yeah. I mean, going back, Ryan Finley.

Starting point is 00:24:34 Ryan Finley should have played out the season. I know they wanted to win a game or two. They got lucky, man. They got lucky they didn't cost themselves. That Miami come back? That Miami game was actually crazy. I mean, it's something that we could, I guess, reflect on every year this time. You know, the genesis of the success of the Joe Burrow era, the Zach Taylor coaching tenure since his tenure in Cincinnati goes back to that game.

Starting point is 00:25:00 And how different things could be if Justin Herbert were the pick instead of Joe Burrow. the Bengals weren't picking first overall. And we do believe that that's what they would have done. But what a roller coaster has been for Zach Taylor? A guy that, what, he's five and two in the playoffs, right? One of the better playoff winning percentages of active coaches because he's only played in coached in seven playoff games. But outside of those two years, two and 14, four and 11,

Starting point is 00:25:32 9 and 8, 9 and 8, 6 and 11. well below 500 if you get rid of the 22 and 11 record he had in the two years where they made it to the playoffs and made the playoff push and obviously you don't get rid of those those years happened and they were nine and eight in the following two years but Zach with there's a reason I guess upon reflection you know this year this year's look back is like there's a reason we were talking about the Bengals moving on at head coach this off season I think any other team Zach doesn't get this much rope. And you saw that with Brian Callahan in Tennessee this year.

Starting point is 00:26:09 We've talked about that twice now. Sorry, Brian. As a great example of the impatience of most NFL teams, the Bengals were rewarded by getting to the Super Bowl the next year. And now they have to be hoping that their patience will again be rewarded. I think that's the first time in Mike Brown's ownership that he has been rewarded for holding on to a coach that extra year. And they go to the playoffs and they go to the ASC championship game.

Starting point is 00:26:38 And now we see this patience once again. And they're hoping that along with some good moves in the off season, that patience pays off. Because to be honest, man, like we, I know some people out there did, but like the expectations weren't high after 2020. It was like, man, hope they figure this thing out with Joe Burrow and they don't squander this guy because he's torn his ACL as a rookie. And now, again, expectations very low going into.

Starting point is 00:27:04 to 2026. Well, yeah, I mean, I think the perceptions changed. I wouldn't be shocked if we look at Fandul in a month and the Bengals are the favorite in the division. That'll be interesting. But from an odd standpoint, because they have Joe, by the way. I mean, it's, it just starts there. I think what Mike Brown is thinking is, hey, I think Zach is a good head coach.

Starting point is 00:27:28 We had clear issues that we're working through to solve. let's solve them. And it's eerily similar from a confident standpoint to what he did the press conference from hell in 2010 after the 2010 season, which is the biggest disappointment that I've ever had,

Starting point is 00:27:51 at least in a Bengals team. After 2009, 2010, you think they're really about to go off and they just, the train never gets moving and they're awful. And that's the T.O. year. And that's that's the year where after that, Carson Palmer retires. Mike Brown sticks with Marvin, trades, Chad, like things really change, but Marvin stays. And Mike would say, oh, well, we went to five

Starting point is 00:28:17 straight playoff. We made five straight playoff appearances. But then he was patient again with Marvin after the 2015 debacle and they didn't go to the playoffs again. That roster was deteriorating. Zach told you that. And so that's why they completely flipped things. things in 19 and 20. And in 21, they had so many different, different phases. That's what they're doing

Starting point is 00:28:38 is they're going through a transition period. The thing that sucks is you have Joe, you have Jamar and you have tea, and the clock is ticking. And you have a coach that whether it's fair, whether it's not fair, is 52, 63 and 1. So you can be 5 and 2 in the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:28:53 You're 52, 63 and 1. And that has to change. Like you, he should be really close to 500 after the 2026. season if he's going to keep his job or his overall record you got to be seven eight games over 500 and uh and that would be you know ideal and the bengals have never done that they've never won 13 games in a season so what what better what better way to do it than uh than do it in twenty 26 the expectation really should be playoffs or bust for for this coaching staff i agree

Starting point is 00:29:28 it better uh i looked because you mentioned it super bowl 20s 27 futures. And the Bengals are 16th, if I can count. Right. The middle question. I don't know if I can count or not, but behind teams like- You're supposed to be able to be the guy that can count. I'm trench man.

Starting point is 00:29:44 You're the counting man. Counting man. Not quite as catchy. Behind the bears, behind the Texans, behind the Jags, behind the Broncos, behind the 49ers, Patriots, Chiefs, Lions, Eagle, Eagles. That one is surprising. Chargers, Packers, Bills, Ravens, Seahawks. That's the descending.

Starting point is 00:30:03 order from the Bengals to the Seahawks. The Rams that low? I bet that's second. Oh, you went. I counted for the Bengals up to the top. Got it. Because Seahawks, Rams, Ravens, Bills, Packers, Chargers, Eagles, lions, Chiefs, Patriots.

Starting point is 00:30:18 Interesting. I'm surprised the Patriots are that low. I'm kind of surprised the chiefs are that low because, yeah, I think you could find a home's injury. I get it. I get it. Yeah, they're probably waiting to see how Mahomes response to the injury. Well, this is going to change a lot.

Starting point is 00:30:34 But that's what it is right now. I was curious because you mentioned it. And we'll see what it is in a month. We'll see what it looks like in a month. But obviously, I think national media, national perspective, national perception, sorry, and the odds makers, the Bengals have a lot to do to get back in there. Good graces. And our good graces, quite frankly, this offseason. That's right.

Starting point is 00:30:57 That's right. Make us happy. Make us happy. Not just Joe. Make us happy. That's the most important thing. You got to satisfy the trench man this offseason Bengals. Until next time, that's going to do it for this episode of the lockdown Bengals podcast.

Starting point is 00:31:10 Thanks for listening. Ho day. And have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow Happy in Cincinnati, but Questions Will LINGER Until Bengals Get Right

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