Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Flacco Contract Structure COULD Mean Bengals Will Add More

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals used void years for Joe Flacko's contract, and that could mean they're setting up for some post-draft veteran additions. Let's get into it. You are Locked-on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. He's James Rapine. I'm Jake Lisco, and we are your host of Lockdown Bengals.

Starting point is 00:00:34 today we're going to discuss what's going on in Arizona at the owners meetings where Zach Taylor is expected to talk tomorrow as we're recording this on Monday evening. He'll be speaking on Tuesday. We won't hear from the ownership group. That's typically Katie Blackburn at the owners meetings in Arizona. And we'll be discussing that later in the show. But we're going to start with the structure the Bengals used for Joe Flacko's one-year contract, actually implementing void years for a.

Starting point is 00:01:04 a one-year deal very similar to what they did with Riley Reef when they signed him to a one-year deal a few years ago. This is multiple contracts now active for the Bengals with Void years going along with Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow. And obviously very different styles of contracts here. Some of the top of their position for multiple years for players that are all pro-level players. And one, for Joe Flacco, which is why I compared it to the Riley Reef deal from a few years ago. a lot of similarities there, but we need to discuss, I think, the structure itself, how exactly it impacts the Bengals' cap situation and what it could mean for the Bengals' offseason plans, potentially after the draft. And there are two void years here, James.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Yeah, two void years. It's not shocking because we've tracked their cap and where they were at in the moment they signed Flacco, I think both of us kind of thought, all right, well, they're completely done cap-wise. And not if you go to over-the-cap or any of these cap websites. Of course, they have space, but rookies, in-season costs, all of those things. Obviously, the Bengals take that into account as they're allocating their cap in free agency. And it felt like they were getting pretty close to it, pretty tight. And so by doing this, what it does is it gives them a little bit.

Starting point is 00:02:30 their backs aren't completely against the wall in their heads. Obviously, they have plenty of levers they could pull, things they could do, structures they could have went with to give them more flexibility. And we've hit on all of those things really throughout the offseason, but certainly over the past month. But when it comes to Flacco, yeah, the one year, this is something honestly, when I bring up Janavian Clowny or Joey Bosa or insert whatever veteran of Bobby Wagner, you bring up every time and it's smart to.

Starting point is 00:03:00 Those one-year deals are direct cap hits unless you do exactly what they did with Flacco. And considering this is really the first time they've paid a backup quarterback, legit backup money, high-end backup money, it makes sense, especially when you look at Joe Burroughs contract. They're allocating a lot of money to the quarterback position, and they may have the best quarterback room in the league. So I think it's going to pay off, but it is not shocking to see them usually. void years. Yeah, and hopefully they continue to not need Joe Flacco for meaningful snaps, right? But the difference is that it saves you $2.3 million or so in cap or $2.7 million or so in Cap Space for rounding. It's $3.33 repeating million in cap hit for 2026 and a $2.7 or

Starting point is 00:03:51 $2.67 million cap hit in 2027. That's the two void years accelerating into one. They took a $4 million dollar roster bonuses pro rated over three years and that's what the two void years do they just push some of the cap hit out into next year why would they do that is right what's that guy's name brian windhorst is that his name brian win horse yeah why would they do that why would they do that yeah we asked that same question when they did it with riley reef and then they did nothing and so it could be that they're going to do nothing it could be that they want to have it as a contingency, right? It could be that they want to make sure that, like,

Starting point is 00:04:33 ah, you know, maybe something comes up and we need that. And it didn't come up that year with Riley Reef. Because when they did the void year, we really, like I do this year, we thought that it indicated that, oh, well, maybe they're not done. Maybe there's like one more thing they want to get done. And maybe they did in that Riley Reef year, too, and then it didn't come to fruition. We know that the things that they want to do not always come to pass.

Starting point is 00:04:58 And this is true for every team. The Bengals are not unique in this, but sometimes they don't get things done that they want to get done. That could be the case this year, but they now have, instead of being right up against the cap, a little bit of wiggle room there. I don't know that there's a move coming before the draft James, and we're going to talk about the owner's meetings and what Zach says tomorrow. And we're going to talk about the various quotes. Kelsey Conway did a great job of asking Bengals free agent additions former coaches about the players the Bengals added. and I want to talk about her coverage a little bit at some point this week if we have the time to do so. But right now, the news that we have today is that they have a little bit more cap space than we thought they did because of the way they structured Flacko's deal.

Starting point is 00:05:42 And I like that they did it this way. I like that it shows the continued awareness of void years and the continued very small steps toward using them. They did it with Reef. They did it with Burrow. They did it with Chase. now they're doing it with Flacco, that indicates very, very, very small steps in the right direction for cap management.

Starting point is 00:06:02 But when you take it on balance with what they've done with not prorating the full year one of various bonuses, I kind of don't really get it. You know what I mean? Like, why are we doing it with Flacco, but not prorating that extra few million dollars with Boye-Maffei or with Brian Cook? Like, what's the difference between those two situations?

Starting point is 00:06:18 And I can theorize about the difference. They know for certain that Flacco is either going to do another one-year deal next year. He's not going to be on the team. I think that's part of it, is there's certainty around that dead money in the future, whereas with other players, it could be like a surprise retirement or surprise it doesn't work out, and now there's more dead money than they thought when they weren't expecting to need it. That's my working theory, but do you have any thoughts around like why they would be comfortable

Starting point is 00:06:45 with this for the one-year veterans, the reefs and the flakos, but not prorating a little bit more money for the long-term second contracts that they've done in free agency? Yeah, I think that the Bengals, their mindset is very much, and it's painful during the Burrow era especially, but they're very much a, all right, well, what's our three to five year forecast look like? And they want to preserve all of that flexibility, all of it, all of it. Like that is their precious thing. And I think that that's in the back of their mind. and there's more here when it comes to that and how much of an impact it could have been had they structured those deals differently, what they could be in the mix for, potentially what this

Starting point is 00:07:34 says versus what it could have been because it could have been a lot of things it still could be. But yeah, it does show that they want to maintain at least some flexibility. What's that flexibility for? We'll continue the conversation coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood prediction markets.

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Starting point is 00:08:52 All right, Jake. Let's continue the conversation because the Bengals, they have some flexibility. And the question was why, why they would do this now. And I think part of it is when they get up against it, cap-wise, they want to keep that flexibility for the rainy day in general. They may not do anything else that's going to significantly impact their 2026 cap situation. Outside of the forecast, obviously, you have the rookies and all of the things that they're already allocating for. It wouldn't shock me if they didn't make another move and they went the Riley Reef route where they did this simply to maintain the flexibility that they deem necessary for whatever they think could potentially come their way over the next eight months, nine months. They decide they need to trade for a Joe Flacco level player midseason again.

Starting point is 00:09:48 Sure. A midseason trade. It's a good point. they would say the August editions that they made last year and big ones right i mean no noa fan don't risiner mike pennel and say what you want about penel and how it ended and that was kind of ugly but fant was valuable at times and certainly dalton risiner was a huge win so they're they're very much aware of that and in their approach and i think that that's something that they when you think of post draft additions yeah i i'm not i don't think that they would do that they would

Starting point is 00:10:21 dismissed that, but I think they do want to get to the draft at this point. Yeah, I think I'm with you that at this point, this doesn't say anything about before the draft, unless it's a player that got cut. Like Bobby O'Caricay is still out there. You know that name. He's still, right? Like, nobody signed him, right? We haven't seen about any visits for him.

Starting point is 00:10:39 We saw DJ Reader took a visit to Baltimore. He did a physical there and is expected to sign after the draft. And I think that's kind of where we are for the most part in free agency at this point, is we're going to see guys that are eligible for the compensatory free agent formula. of being signed after the draft. And so for the Bengals, who, to our chagrin, are in line for a third round compensatory pick next year, which is an asset. Don't get me wrong.

Starting point is 00:11:03 It's not like nothing, but they haven't been very good with those. We talked about their history of picks around that part of the draft recently on an episode in the last couple of weeks. But they have that comp pick in their pocket now, and it appears that they, like many NFL teams at this point, again, they're. not the only ones, they're not unique in this, are choosing to approach the rest of this month as we'll see who's out there in May. We'll see what holes we have after the draft. Free agents will not count for the compensatory formula pretty quickly after the draft. I don't remember the

Starting point is 00:11:36 exact date. I think it's early May. And then they can go sign a player for a position that they didn't feel like they addressed adequately in the draft. And we've been going through these mocks and we just did a mock yesterday, James, where all the defensive players were gone in the first round. And so we were talking about offensive linemen. We were talking about wide receivers a little bit. We ended up picking McCoy, a cornerback, just to pick a defensive player

Starting point is 00:12:04 and on the idea that he's going to have and his pro day is potentially today, as you're listening to this, March 31st, going to have a healthy pro day and go test well. And then he could very well be the BPA at that point, if he is healthy and convinces teams of his health. and has a nice pro day. And so like on that assumption, we made that pick.

Starting point is 00:12:23 And then we picked a couple defensive tackles because those were the best players that we thought we could get in the second and third ground. And if it goes that way and they don't get that edge that they think can contribute in year one or the linebacker that they think can contribute in year one, well, maybe that's where they go back to the veterans that are still out there in free agency or revisit a player that gets cut after the draft because the team did draft that guy's replacement and they want to check out one of those deals for a similar like flaco or cheaper level deal that maybe they also use a void year for in the flaco and re-school.

Starting point is 00:13:00 And that's where I really believe there's progress. And this is a sign of like them doing things a little bit differently is if they do make that better a move that maybe even does involve a void year for a real guy that is actually going to play. Not necessarily like the mic panels or it's like, yeah, that's a nice move. He can help a little bit, but more like the Jadavion Clowney. kind of move. That's who I was thinking of.

Starting point is 00:13:20 And just so you know, it's the Monday after the draft, so April 27th. So really soon. Yeah. And that's it. That's why if you noticed, like a lot of these deals haven't been a lot of these guys that are certainly deserving of deals, they're just kind of in a holding pattern. One, players are going to wait until after the draft. DJ Reader is one of those that the reports out there.

Starting point is 00:13:40 I'm sure Clowny and Bosa, a lot of these guys waiting until after the draft to see where the dust settles. And if you're the Bengals, that's noteworthy because now you're in what way for, whatever, but there are still real guys. And having some flexibility, it's valuable. And I hope. I hope. And it depends on what happens in the draft to a degree, right?

Starting point is 00:14:04 I don't think you're necessarily in and on clowny if you get Rubin Bain. Like, there are levels to this. But wouldn't it be nice if they did what you said? and they're able to get a real guy that can help potentially start. Like, Jadavia and Clownie may start for you. And I get it. Like starting is relative because he might not. It might be Miles Murphy and Boya and Mafay.

Starting point is 00:14:28 But Clowny's going to play a ton if he signed. But with this current roster, he would play a lot and give you valuable snaps. At the same time, you could keep him fresh and still rotate your young guys. And I don't need to make this argument too much because they haven't signed him. But he would fit, at least as of now. And so to see this flacco won your deal with void years, maybe there is a little hope that they're going to add another piece. And they should. We'll see if they do.

Starting point is 00:14:56 But it would be hard for me to envision. And this is why we did the mock the way we did this week. Hard for us to envision that they're going to fill everything, that everything is going to feel good. And on that April 27th, after the draft, if they make all their picks and the dust is settled, that we look at their roster and they say, man, need. Filled. Hard for me to envision that scenario. Somehow they swing some crazy trade that ends up with like seven second round picks. Then you can do it. I still hate it because now you don't have that premium guy.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Well, no. Somehow they've kept the 10th pick. Oh. We're in Fantasyland here. It might be Fantasyland to think that they're going to use this money to sign a player after the draft too. But I do think William Wagner for seven second round picks. There we go. very, very valuable player.

Starting point is 00:15:44 And it'd be hard to replace them, man. That's a big asset that you're giving up. But sometimes the price, you know, you got to give up if you're going to get in this league. That's right. Seven seconds. Poor William. Look, maybe we're in Fantasyland, like I said, talking about them signing a player after the draft too. But I do think that they're not in.

Starting point is 00:16:07 And so, like, if it was a full $6 million for Flacco this year against the cap, It's a $6 million cash deal for Flacko. No change in the cash for Flacco. And $3 million incentives that are like heavy playing time and win related incentives. I don't know that he's hitting most of those incentives, especially if Joe stays healthy. So $6 million in cash for Flacco this year. But if you add another 2.7 to the cap hit this year, then I would have them at about $2 million in cap space. after all of the cost of practice squad and the rookies and all those things.

Starting point is 00:16:44 Yeah, 2.7 to that, now you're up to 5 million. So there's a little bit more space there for a $2 million deal or $2.5 million deal, the Noah Fantzai's deal, certainly a Dalton Reisner sized deal, because veteran minimum contracts are essentially free. So last bit here on the cap before we move on. We'll talk about what happened at the owners meetings a little bit today. What we're expecting from the Bengals this week is every time the Bengals sign a player, it pushes another player off of the cap for accounting purposes.

Starting point is 00:17:14 So if you sign a guy now, it pushes a million dollars off the cap. That's called an offset because you only have to account for 53 players in your total cap. So you sign another guy pushes a million dollars off the roster because now there's a player that isn't going to make the team. The cheapest player on the roster isn't going to make the team now. And so if you sign a guy for like a $1.25 million deal, the net cap hit of that is only adding two. $250,000. So like for veteran minimum kind of deals, if there are guys like that out there that the Bengals want to sign, they can do that essentially for free against the cap.

Starting point is 00:17:49 There might be a small signing bonus, right? And that's the cash expense. I think Josh Johnson, I think he got a $200,000 signing bonus. That's a lot of money for a normal person, not necessarily a lot of money for an NFL owner. And so those are the differences, right? Like you're talking about the potential to do a $2.5 million deal, I think, and not sweat it too much. That's a $1.5 million net cap hit versus only really having the flexibility to do minimum kind of deals that are only maybe like that $200,000 net cap hit.

Starting point is 00:18:19 Eish. Yeah. That to me says, all right, hopefully you can load up. And by the way, those are the examples of the Reisner Penel fan. Very close to that, not identical, but very close, where the cap hit was not a ton. And they were able to absorb that and conduct business. as usual. But you imagine owners meetings? If they wanted to do clowny, sorry, last thing. If they wanted to do clowny and they wanted to use another one-year deal with a void year, then they could do that too. And that's where I'm looking to see like, okay, yeah, no, that is something they haven't done before, is how I would react if they were to make a move like that. Clowny, bring them in. We'll discuss NFO owners meetings

Starting point is 00:19:00 and what to expect next. Well, Jake, we've been talking a lot about the cap, which obviously Katie Blackburn handles a lot of the Bengals cap and negotiating. She will not speak this week at NFL owners meetings in Arizona. Something that she's done in the past. Kelsey Conway, you mentioned her. She's out there, said that Katie, according to the team, is going to talk at a later date. That would be great. Hopefully it happens.

Starting point is 00:19:31 I know a lot of people love to hear from her. Duke Tobin was available. He's talked multiple times this offseason. And that was valuable. I think it's important for that to happen. And so hopefully we do. hear from Katie at some point this offseason before we dive into training camp and all of that fun this summer. Yeah, hopefully we hear from her. It's always, I think, even though it's sometimes

Starting point is 00:19:51 frustrating to hear from this ownership group, to hear from Mike Brown and mock turtle soup, to hear from Katie Blackburn at the owner's meetings. And last year it was the, the Trey Hendrickson comments. Like at some point, he needs to be happy. And then that took fire. And maybe that's part of what's happening here is they are aware of the media attention to owners meetings. This is a big media focused event. If you saw the pictures today from the NFC coaches breakfast, I mean, the coaches are just surrounded by reporters. The banquet room or whatever room they're in is just full of people talking to these coaches about whatever, about like the Browns trading five years of future picks that they withdrew today,

Starting point is 00:20:40 as Sean Nick Vey and others indicated that there was not close to any support for that proposal from the Browns. But they're talking about the rule changes, they're talking about players that have changed teams, or talking about culture and all these things. We well hear from Zach tomorrow, but media attention certainly more acute at the owner's meetings for comments from ownership,

Starting point is 00:21:02 and maybe there's some thought around that. But I think that ultimately it's not a great look from the Bengals. Even if it is sometimes frustrating to hear what Katie Blackburn has to say, the optics, even if there's a totally valid reason for this, and maybe there is. And hopefully she talks soon. Maybe she talks in two weeks in Cincinnati before the draft. And that's what their plan was.

Starting point is 00:21:22 I don't know. We don't know what the plan is right now. But the optics are not great for the ownership group shying away from media attention right now when there is a lot of scrutiny still. on the team from its fan-based locally. Yeah, I think it's always good to hear from them. That's it. That's what I'll say.

Starting point is 00:21:40 Like Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, obviously Duke, because Zach is going to talk on Tuesday, we will react to what Zach says. I'm sure there will be things that he says that are noteworthy. One, we, and obviously I'm not at owner's meetings, but we as media ask questions of Zach that we wouldn't necessarily have to ask if others were made available. And so I think that's the big thing where it puts Zach in an awkward spot. It puts us in a spot where we have to ask Zach, even though we know that he might not be the best person to answer the question.

Starting point is 00:22:18 And the point of doing that is to obviously get answers and to get information. But if your reaction is, oh, what is she going to say anyway? Well, that's not the point. The point is it's important to have those conversations in charge. general, regardless of what's going to come of them or not come of them. Heck, the Brown still holding out hope that Deshaun Watson is going to work out. Who'd that come from? That came from Brown's ownership.

Starting point is 00:22:45 I'm sure Katie Blackburn thinks that's hilarious that Jimmy Haslam said that, but that's something that was said on Monday. So that's an example of what the Bengals are trying to avoid. And I actually, I think Katie would be fine with that and avoid the crazy headlines. And so hopefully, especially with the stadium deal last year, kind of behind them, hopefully she's able to talk soon so we can hear from her. Even if they're not necessarily the most satisfactory answers, getting ownership on the record to talk about things certainly has its value

Starting point is 00:23:18 and can help to illustrate what ownership is thinking about certain things. And like I said, even if the answers aren't necessarily always satisfactory or even nice to hear or read or however you ingest that information, that's kind of the job, is asking the questions and getting folks on record for their thoughts and opinions about what's going on with their club. Well, yeah, it's just important to be as transparent as possible with the fans. And so if the more they can do that, the better. especially given the fact that they're 24 and 27.

Starting point is 00:24:02 People like us think they didn't do it, 24 and 27 of the past three seasons. People like us think they didn't do enough in free agency. There's all of the discussion about Burrow. Is he happy? Is he not? Like, how much do we have? Duke has talked plenty about his conversations with Burrough.

Starting point is 00:24:18 Zach, obviously. We don't have much with Katie and Joe. And I think that that's an important, an important dialogue, important relationship for sure. when it comes to the future of this franchise. So yeah, that's one of the many, many things I think that we would want not clarity on, just more info on as much as possible.

Starting point is 00:24:40 Yeah, just hearing what Katie has to say about it would be insightful in one way, shape, or form, I think. Not always, but probably it would give you some sort of information, even if you're reading between the lines. Zach Taylor is expected to speak with media at the AFC Coach's Breakfast. That will be on Tuesday morning. in Arizona. And a lot of times, James,

Starting point is 00:25:03 not a whole lot of interest from Zach at these owners' meetings, but we obviously will keep an eye on it for anything important, noteworthy that he does say. We might revisit again, like I said, Kelsey Conway doing a great job of reporting what Boye Maffei's former coach in Seattle had to say about him, talk to Kevin O'Connell and Dan Quinn about Jonathan Allen as well.

Starting point is 00:25:26 So some quotes from former coaches of the defense. defensive lineman the Bengals signed. And maybe there will be a quote about safety the Bengal signed from Andy Reid. Tomorrow is Brian Cook, former chief, AFC coaches breakfast tomorrow. Obviously, Zach, talking as well. And maybe we'll get some news about like,

Starting point is 00:25:46 you know, the rule changes, things like that. The other thing on my mind here, James, just like a quick, you don't have to get into this in any level of depth today. But like the replacement ref stuff that is being held over our heads right now. and that failed apparently so far negotiations between ownership and officials in the NFL. Man, that's scary.

Starting point is 00:26:09 I need to see that get resolved. I need them to have good solutions in place if they are going to replacement refs because talk about things that can derail a season. As much as you're worried about like the linebackers or whatever, we've seen what replacement refs can do and the wild card that they can be. So that's just something that. that's in the back of my head, not Bengal specific or anything, but it's scary. It's funny.

Starting point is 00:26:34 So that's what Jake's thinking of. And then full disclosure for everybody, certainly our everydayers will understand this. Meanwhile, I'm looking at the NFL official account on X and they announced this professional flag football league. And I got my Vince Papali mindset right now. And that's obviously referring to the Mark Wahlberg and Invincible.

Starting point is 00:26:56 That's the easier way to put it. But I'm like, man, 34. can still move. So you're thinking about replacement reps. I'm thinking about, well, replacing Joe in a professional flag football league. Also some major media waves in the NFL space this week

Starting point is 00:27:13 with the PFF acquisition, shoutouts and sympathies to everyone who is part of those layoffs. Hopefully those folks land on their feet. It'll be interesting to see how that changes the media space with the direction that PFF is going to go as a company and how that data and access to that data changes too i think that'll be something to watch so yeah we're thinking about very different things here today there's no doubt i'm like all right so if i start the plyometrics today when or you know

Starting point is 00:27:44 yeah there you go we'll wrap up there for this episode of the lockdown bengals podcast until next time thanks for listening huda and have a good

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Flacco Contract Structure COULD Mean Bengals Will Add More

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