Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Flacco's CLEAR Value as Joe Burrow's Backup | Is Flacco the Bengals' Future Backup QB?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Joe Flacco very clearly demonstrated his value to the Cincinnati Bengals and should be an offseason priority. Let's break it down. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network in the land. He's James Rapine. I'm Jake Liscoe.

Starting point is 00:00:35 We've been locked on Bengals on this podcast since 2016, your best one-stop shop for all things, Bengals anywhere, online. And as we continue to dive into a series of relatively high-level off-season topics, yesterday we got to the Bengals' internal free agents, and we alluded to the importance of a guy like Joe Flacco for this football team and how exactly they should navigate the Trey Hendrickson situation this offseason. And we dive into those topics in a little bit more depth today. And we're soon going to be talking about some of the other off-season topics that we have briefly alluded to in the last week. Excited to talk about Joe Flacco's future today in an episode brought to you by PrizePix where you can download the Price Picks app and use code lockdown NFL.

Starting point is 00:01:23 You'll get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. James, one of the things that was evident as we were discussing Joe Flacco briefed, briefly on our overall internal free agent preview show was the state of the quarterback market in general. Obviously, Duke Tobin, Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow, this football team really appreciated Joe Flacco as a human being and as a player. But as our everydayers, no, because they listen to that internal free agent show. Shout out to the everydayers, welcome back. the quarterback market, if you're looking to find a quality backup, is not great this offseason. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:08 And that's what's tough is, it tough for the Bengals at least, because I think you and I both agree. Joe Flacco is a must keep. Like, I want to do every. He's so valuable and you may never need him, but the moment you need him, my goodness, do you need him? And we saw it. And I know that may sound confusing to some, at least on the surface, but those that watched weeks three, four, and five certainly understand it. Those that were there in week two when Joe Burrow gets hurt and Jake Browning performs well,

Starting point is 00:02:42 well, that's what you need. And you need to do it against good defenses. And you need to be capable of doing it against good defenses. And they didn't win a lot with Joe Flacko, but they were functional. They were able to operate. They were able to do things. that you need your offense to do. Like this offense, regardless of what they do on defense,

Starting point is 00:03:03 this offense is where they've invested. We heard Duke Tobin last week, 65% and all those things and percentages, they need to be spending on defense. There's no doubt, but it is true. They're spending big money on Jamar, big money on T. You need to be able to get those guys the ball. The offense should never look like it did with Jake Browning a quarterback.

Starting point is 00:03:23 And so how do you prevent that from happening again? Well, one way would be to just bring back Joe Flacco. I think Joe Flacco could, until he's 50, throw the ball to Jamar and T. He can't move anyway. I think that arm will work. And so will he be able to do it at 41? I certainly think so, especially if you get in a tight spot, you're on the road in Pittsburgh, must win AFC North on the line.

Starting point is 00:03:47 Guess what? Joe Flacco isn't going to flinch in those type of situations. He's the perfect. And I mean perfect backup for Joe Burrow. And if he doesn't stick in Cincinnati, if they don't resign him, you have to wonder where the Bengals are going to go at quarterback because it is not like there's three different Joe Flackos to choose from. There isn't John Kittna, the 2005 version of John Kittna out there. It's just that there's not much out there. And that's unfortunate because the Bengals need to value backup quarterback.

Starting point is 00:04:23 We've seen why you cannot let a Joe Burrow injury direct. all your season, especially if it's for like a month. And it basically would have. They were awful. They won one game without Joe, went one and eight without him. Got to find a way to be better regardless. But having a functional backup quarterback is huge. You ought to be able to swim.

Starting point is 00:04:41 I mean, the Bengals had cinder block or three tied to their ankles when Joe Burrow wasn't out. I mean, like one in eight because he lost one player. Worst team in the NFL. They were tied for the worst team in the NFL with Jamar and T. and you know. And we'll tell you how important Joe is. We know how important Joe is, but you have to have a team that can be competitive and viable in the NFL if Burroughs

Starting point is 00:05:09 not out there. And obviously adding Flacco, they only won one more game with Flacco than they won with Jake Browning. Maybe Jake Browning would have won a game too. But I think that how different the offense looked in terms of just being functional. And Flacco, you know, he's got his flaws, obviously. He's a fringe starter would be obviously a backup in Cincinnati. We'll have opportunities very likely to go to spots like Miami or Minnesota or even Pittsburgh

Starting point is 00:05:40 where they're in dire need of a quarterback solution to be a bridge guy. And those teams might find another way to add a young quarterback in the draft. Maybe they won't. Even the teams picking at the top of this year's, draft expected to draft a quarterback. I mean, I guess you could throw the Jets into the mix there, too, as a potential spot for Flacco. And is he played for the Jets? Flacco's played for one. He did, yeah. The Bengals played against Flacco in the Jets. They won 2712, but whatever year that was, 22 maybe, maybe 2022. Yeah, Flacco played for the Jets in 2020, 21, 22, played for the Eagles

Starting point is 00:06:17 a little bit in 2021, played for the Browns. Fans were booing him. Jets fans were booing in that game. Yeah. Like, we don't want Flacco, but. And it's like, man, he could still play. You guys just have no weapons. Flack has only played for one NFC team, which was the Eagles, very briefly at one point. And I don't know if he actually played a game for the Eagles or if he just ended up on the Eagles team for a little bit. Also needs to complete his ASC North journey. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:47 He played for them in the preseason. I didn't realize that at all. Why do I not remember this? I don't know if you played a regular season game. They traded into the Jets. That's why. Yeah. They traded in with the Jets.

Starting point is 00:06:59 And that's how he got, went back to the Jets. I totally forgot about that. Needs to complete his AFC North Tour, right? Got a land in Pittsburgh at some point. And maybe that job, depending on who they hires, a head coach, is going to hold someone to Luritan. So the point of mentioning all these other spots is that Flacco is going to have job opportunities. And I think is probably.

Starting point is 00:07:25 going to want to wait until free agency to figure out what those opportunities might be. Because as we said, when you look at the quarterbacks available around the NFL right now, there's a couple guys that might get starting opportunities elsewhere on expiring contracts. Daniel Jones, if he recovers well from his injury is one. And Malik Willis is very obviously the other. outside of that the guys that took appreciable snaps in the NFL last year that are free agents are Aaron Rogers who sounds like he's retiring maybe not I guess Devante Adams was uh took offense to that suggestion that Aaron Rogers was going to retire but we'll see what Aaron Rogers future

Starting point is 00:08:08 holds Marcus Mariotta Marioata sorry played half of the commander staffs he's going to be a backup somewhere you would imagine Carson Wentz played 30% of the Viking stats the Vikings were disaster quarterback all season. Terrod Taylor played a bunch. Tyler Huntley played. Jake Browning, Russ Wilson, Philip Rivers,

Starting point is 00:08:28 Josh Johnson. Like, these are the guys that we're talking about now. And Jake Browning is a restrictive free agent. Oh, I know.

Starting point is 00:08:36 That out there. Oh, I know. He's a value. Like, I think he's going to be like around whether or not he's happy about it is, is another thing.

Starting point is 00:08:45 And, you know, could they move on if they secure the backup fine they could Mario da would be would be interesting he's going to cost he will cost more than Joe Flack yeah he made $8 million last year yeah the Bengals aren't

Starting point is 00:08:59 going to swim in it because I could totally feel that I did it I was like oh Marcus free agent I forgot he was like we would love it would be interesting I mean those other names you mentioned Terrod Taylor made $6 million last year Zach Wilson made $6 million

Starting point is 00:09:14 last year Kenny Pickin made $3.5 million last year which is just a little bit south of what Joe Flacco made. The Russ Wilson one. I don't think it will happen. Ten a half million last year. Well, sure.

Starting point is 00:09:31 And that was because he was started. Yeah, his number is going to go way down. Way down. I mean, he's probably league minimum type deal. I still don't think the Bengals are in on Russ Wilson. Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't feel that way. Put it out there.

Starting point is 00:09:47 A birdie might have gotten a hold of me when I was like, all right, well, at least go get Russ because I'm sick of watching Jake. And then they obviously got Joe Flacco done. So I would just pay Joe, man, because it works. Like, would you pay Flacco? Let's get to that. What would he be worth? What should the Bengals realistically offer him?

Starting point is 00:10:07 Because we know they aren't going to spend $10 million on Joe Flacko. I'll just go really high. So we'll dive into that coming up next. Locked on Bengals is brought to you today by Quo that knows that sometimes in a new year, you're looking for new systems, new ways to find efficiency in your business. There has to be a better way, say, for communications. And there is. You can streamline your communications with one of the quickest upgrades you can make to your business with quo, QUO, the smarter way to run your business communications. It makes your team reachable, organized, lets you communicate in one place so you're

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Starting point is 00:12:59 It's your legacy. Joe Flacco's market value, according to Spotrack, James, is about $5.5 million. If you look at over the calf, and this isn't a projection, it's just their valuation, which is just based on how he played, because there are weeks that he played and produced at a starting quarterback level that would get paid $50 million in the NFL. Not suggesting Joe Flacco should make $50 million, but that's the way their formula works is like,

Starting point is 00:13:28 did this guy play like a high-end starter from a statistical output perspective? And in week seven and in week nine, they think he did. And in other weeks, certainly provided cromulent starting quarterback level play. So they have it at $14 million for his valuation based on how much he played and how he played in in 2025. Now, if you look at his history, Joe Flacco hasn't been over $6 million a year since he played on a one-year deal for the Broncos,

Starting point is 00:14:01 his first contract after playing for the Ravens. And I don't think the Broncos even paid him that much. I think the Broncos paid him $5 million. I think some of that was money left over from the Ravens that he was earning. So in recent history, it's been between league minimum like you're talking about for for for for Russ up to five five and a half million dollars per year. And I would guess that that's roughly where he would be five and a half to six at the top

Starting point is 00:14:32 end if he gets a little bump based on how he played for the Bengals this year. Yep. That's that's where I would be at. I would say, hey, Mr. 41 year old, here's two for 12. and I'd have some incentives baked in there too. Hey, by the way, if Joe does get hurt and you keep us afloat and you do what you did, you're going to get paid. You sign a Jamar Chase jersey at the end of the year because he asked for one.

Starting point is 00:14:57 You're going to get an extra 250K because Jamar's only going to ask if you throw in a bunch of touchdowns and you keep this offensive float, right? Like, that's what I would do. And I think it is that valuable because you just do not want to be. where they were, Duke Tobin highlighted this last week, and it's going to get lost in translation, but making that move, and I think Zach Taylor has a ton to do with it, but making that move for Joe Flacco, getting that deal done, and then getting him ready, and it working the way it did, you just don't want to be in that position again where you're like, all right, well, what do we do

Starting point is 00:15:35 a quarterback, Joe's hurt, and our backup is not working. But Flacko will work and you know it like the physical traits are a big reason why. His experience, a big reason why. Like that won't just suddenly disappear. Jake Browning doesn't have the skins on the wall. He was okay a few years ago and they won some games. But that's that's much different than Joe Flacco and what he brings. So he's just far more established than Marcus Mariotta, for example, another particular.

Starting point is 00:16:09 potential backup that's going to cost a lot of money. So why not? I would offer him six for 12 or two for 12 right now, six million per year right now and say, all right, what do we have to bake in here to make it worth your time? And here's the good news, Jake. I do think Joe Flacco will have an idea of what he could do, where he could land around the combine. He's going to know, that's where the league gathers, that's where everything. He's going to know before free agency what things are looking like, have at least an idea. And that's why you see a lot of deals get done after that. Maybe that's when you could get something done.

Starting point is 00:16:48 Because, yeah, if you could tell me, if you tell me right now, they get in for $6 million per. Great. The reason I do two instead of one, one, why not give yourself the extra year? Two, you can spread out the money a little bit because the last thing I want is that Bengals to say, oh, we didn't sign this defensive tack or this defensive end or whatever because we we had to keep Joe Flacco. Like one doesn't get in the way of the other. And so yeah, two for 12.

Starting point is 00:17:14 Come on, Joe. One should not get in the way of the other. One does get in the way of the other for the Cincinnati Bengals, which will be a conversation for another day when we'll talk about contract structures again. And Duke Tobin will roll his eyes at you in his press conference when you ask about guaranteed money because they think apparently the contract structures

Starting point is 00:17:35 are very boring and uninteresting. and things that fans and the media should not cover, but it's something that we're going to talk about, especially, I don't know if you saw this. Yesterday, as we record this, we're recording this on Wednesday. Yesterday, the Ravens owner, Steve Viscotti, is that how you say his name?

Starting point is 00:17:56 I don't even know. Was doing his post-season conference. Bugatti. And was talking about manipulating the cap like it's child's play. talking about Lamar's contract. Yeah, we can do whatever we need to do with Lamar's contract. It's no big deal. He said if Lamar doesn't sign an extension with us and we expect to get one number four free agency,

Starting point is 00:18:18 we'll manipulate that $74 million cap hit. It's like, yeah, he's essentially that there's no way he's going to be on a $74 million cap hit this year, which anybody who follows the cap closely knew. But the way he talks about it, the way the Bengals handle it, it's a comical chasm that separates those two teams and teams like the Eagles and the Browns and not that the Browns are a model of greatness or anything like that but certainly the way they handle the calf allows their owner to spend a lot more money than the Cincinnati Bengals spend on their football team. Last point on Joe Flacko here, he is used to incentive laden contracts James. You mentioned incentives in there. He had a lot of incentives with the Bengals

Starting point is 00:19:04 last year. I think it was Graziano covered this for ESPN in the middle of the season at some point. Joe Flacco was

Starting point is 00:19:16 per game and win $75,000 incentive per win in games that he played at least 50% of the contracts so that he had like

Starting point is 00:19:29 up to $3 million or $5 million in incentives based on playing time and wins So no stranger to that kind of incentive-based contract and has been on these kind of contracts for a while. It's just who else do you have confidence in as a backup in that price range?

Starting point is 00:19:51 Like you're talking about Terrod Taylor, Mitch Trubisky, Russ Wilson, those guys that are potentially in that price range. And I mean, those guys are maybe okay. this staff has gotten decent play out of quarterbacks before, but the known quantity here, especially for a handful of games, before Flacco starts to hit a bit of a wall, which seems like it does happen for him.

Starting point is 00:20:16 That's a good solution to have. And they have to figure out what to do with Trey Hendricks and James. They're just going to let them walk. It's a topic of conversation here to finish the show coming up next. Today's show is brought you by Home Chef. Look, the new year is here. here. You're trying to get into a rhythm. I know I am. After the season, every single year, what do I try to do? I try to recalibrate, regroup, and make sure I get into a rhythm. Home Chef is

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Starting point is 00:23:06 If you're hiring, do it the right way with Indeed. All right, Jake, let's discuss. Well, Trey Hendrickson. It feels like Trey is going to play for another team this coming year. Obviously, it's a huge loss. Let's start there. Do you feel like they just let him leave in free agency? Do you think that they go with the tag and trade idea that's been tossed around?

Starting point is 00:23:31 multiple years now, trade requests, back and forths, pay bumps, contract things, all of these things. I think that it's leading to a breakup, it's just a matter of how. Do you think that they consider franchise tagging him, or do you think he's gone? I think it's considered. I think if you were to order the list of probabilities, it goes, he walks as an unrestricted free agent, and then a big gap. and then even a bigger gaff and then a franchise tag.

Starting point is 00:24:04 And then if they do franchise tag, would it surprise you if they drag it out and it gets incredibly ugly? And they say, you know what, Tray, we have control. What are you going to do? You're going to sit out? Like, that's something this team would do. I don't think they will,

Starting point is 00:24:19 but it wouldn't be a foreign concept to them. Figuring out a tag and trade, I think is ideal because at least you get something. but I am in the and I'm like this with a lot of things right now I am in the believe it when I see a camp on the Bengals pulling that off what do you think yeah I think they'll say let's get younger let's target the next guy let's try to find the next not the next tray I think that's really unrealistic but the next phase let's move into that next phase of Bengals of this Bengals defense, and that's going to be without Trey. And I think there were some that believed in the building that believed they should have done that last year. And they didn't do that last year. And it was kind of this weird in-between.

Starting point is 00:25:13 And the weird in-betweens don't work. And I think they'll understand that and learn from what they did last year and say, you know what? That's fine, Trey. Go test free agency. And by test it, go sign elsewhere in free agency. is there a chance that things could change? You never say never, but it feels like never. For me, in what went on, how things kind of changed from the trade deadline.

Starting point is 00:25:42 And after that, and then you have Trey just kind of hanging out there, not on injured reserve, but not playing. And then eventually having surgery and going on. I just think that they're like, okay, it's just time. It's time for him to find greener pastures where he's happy, and it's time for the team to find happiness as well. And happiness means finding playmakers on defense. And so I think that's what they'll try to do. It doesn't mean they're going to take all that money and put it towards the pass rush alone,

Starting point is 00:26:12 but they'll probably look at it and say, all right, $36 million in cap space that we could use on a Trey Hendrickson tag, or we can use that elsewhere, $30 million in cash that we can use elsewhere. And they're going to have to because there's a lot of holes to fill throughout this roster. Yeah, and it's a bigger conversation to talk about how they can spend that money. And something that actually came up on the squad show this week, James, was the idea that you're going to probably end up with flaws. NFL teams right now, especially the teams with quarterbacks on a second contract, you had a big chunk of your salary cap, a big chunk of cash going to these quarterbacks every year. It's hard to be perfect.

Starting point is 00:26:51 And Duke Tobin alluded to that. You have a lot of money spent on the offensive side of the ball. And there's only so much money to go around. Now, the nice thing about having the money spent on your offense now is that the cap will go up. And now you can start to even out the percentage of your cap that you're spending on both sides of the ball. But when you lose a player like Trey Hendrickson, and the reason that we talked about, just get the deal done with Trey, the reason that that was something that we talked about often last year. And if they were going to get a trade done fine, but they waited too long to do it. by the time you get to post draft i think it was entirely unrealistic

Starting point is 00:27:26 the reason that we talked about it is because tray is that caliber of player that you can't just go find like who who out there right now do we think can can has tray hendricksson upside i don't really see that like maybe you think adafa oa can be a good pass rusher for you maybe somebody out there thinks that they can develop former first round pick quiddy pay or Arnold abacati those are going to be probably some of the key names maybe you go with a guy like joey bosa who when he's healthy which is not very often can and show that he still can get after the passer and play really high level at that position maybe you go for the the one-year

Starting point is 00:28:13 mercenaries like kaleel mack and that's not really in the bengal's dana as a team. So I don't really see the, as you said, the realistic shot at a guy who has the Trey Hendrickson upside. But that doesn't mean you do nothing. You go get some guys that can help you. And then you find ways to find strengths in other areas of your football team. Well, you don't need.

Starting point is 00:28:39 You can be a good defense without having a guy that gets you 16 sacks, 17 sacks. You can. Nice to have, but yeah, you can find other strengths. Yeah. Correct. And so that's what they're going to have to do. They're going to have to evolve. And they probably should have hit that evolve button last year.

Starting point is 00:28:56 And they didn't. And you're right. They're going to have to add an edge. Like it's just the life in the NFL. You're going to have to get pressure. You could argue that that's their biggest need, even after Miles Murphy in 23 and Shemar Stewart last year. Two first round picks. You still need it.

Starting point is 00:29:14 Crazy. Yeah. It is. And we may not feel that way in October. as much if they do the right things in free agency and Shemar develops and Miles continues to develop but that's how we feel right now and so right now is that a need absolutely do they have to address it absolutely can they be a good defense without Trey well I do think in a way it was good that Trey didn't play down the stretch one they weren't playing for anything two you got Miles Murphy

Starting point is 00:29:43 in a position to really build something and build some confidence going into the offseason and you see what it looks like without him. And so now build it around that and what it looks like without him and what it needs to be moving forward. So we'll see. It is doable, though. And I do think, and there are a lot of Trey Hendricks and fans and rightfully so, he's likely the best for agent signing in Bengals history. He's probably not coming back. So how do they become a good defense again?

Starting point is 00:30:20 without a guy like Trey and knowing that whoever they do sign on the edge probably isn't going to have the Trey Hendrickson level impact and no one should expect that to be the case. We'll see. Maybe it's as simple as Ruben Bain. And Ruben Bain becomes that guy and gets you eight to ten sacks as a rookie. And he's a big part of what you have. But he might not make it to pick 10.

Starting point is 00:30:42 So there's plenty of discussion between now and then. But regardless, you're going to have to add an edge in free agency and, uh, feel good about whoever replaces Trey and replaces is different than filling that same role, right? But there's going to be someone that lines if they're probably Miles Murphy and that Trey Hendrickson spot next season. What were your thoughts on the chances that he's a tag candidate for the Bengals? You think like big, big gaff, like we're giving that single digit percentages for a tag, tag and trade? I think a tag and keep is zero. I don't think there's really any scenario.

Starting point is 00:31:21 Yeah. I think that if they get word at the combine, that there's a lot of interest in Trey. And this message is sort of for Vangel's ownership, too, because it's something they would never do. But if you get word and you can feel out a lot of things at the combine and flesh out a lot of ideas and figure it out, if it's like, oh, well, yeah, there's going to be a ton of interest in him, you consider it. And you say, all right, well, we're going to tag him. What are you going to give us? And maybe it's just a piece, right? Maybe it's not a high pick, but maybe it's something.

Starting point is 00:32:00 You should not get a compensatory selection for Trey a year from now because you should be that active and free agency. Honestly, even if it's, even if it's like a fourth round pick, just take it. That's better than nothing. You just have to be ready to move quick. You can't do the Bengals thing of like drag it out, get close to the draft, get through free agency, you have this franchise tag sitting on your books. It has to be quick if that's the approach for the Bengals. Well, it would be just move.

Starting point is 00:32:24 It would be, oh, the Bengals are tagging Tri-Hendrix in and trading him. Like, it would literally be- Yeah, they have a trade in place within a week. Trading him to the Denver Broncos. Yeah, like, you've already talked to two or three different teams. They're willing to, and I don't think it would be Denver, but you get my point. Like, it would be like. The reason I bring it up is like, it can't be like the Bengals,

Starting point is 00:32:47 way of handling trades where it's like oh we're going to be stubborn and hold out for our second round like just don't you got to be ready to move and it's something they should do and and maybe we should have hammered this earlier that is what they should do they should get whatever they can for that asset that they have that should be in demand i know this easier said than done but you should get take whatever you can get instead of just letting them walk and we'll see what approach they take that'll wrap up this episode of the lockdown bengals podcast more offseason topics to get to extension candidates or if there's breaking news of course we'll have that covered as well here on the lockdown bengals podcast until next time thanks for listening to this episode of the

Starting point is 00:33:28 lockdown bengals podcast ho today and have a good one

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