Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Jordan Battle's role expanding for Cincinnati Bengals, but what are we buying about this defense after a bounceback in Week 6?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals defense had a bounce back performance against the New York Giants, and it sounds like Jordan Battle may have more playing time coming. But what's that mean for the outlook of the defense? Let's break it down. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe.

Starting point is 00:00:33 He's your host, James Rupin. We are part of the Lockdown Podcast Network here on Lockdown Bengals covering your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Welcome in to those of you who are new to the show. We have you updated here on Lockdown Bengals with News and Analysis five days a week. And if you've been a regular listener, if you're an every day or if you make us your first listen, what we appreciate your putting us in your routine so very much. And today we're going to spend some time talking about the defense. You missed it yesterday in the film review with Mike Santagga.

Starting point is 00:01:08 We spent a lot of time talking about the offense. We didn't get to the defense until quite late in the show. Today's episode is sponsored by Fandall, where you can get started with $200 in bonus bets when you place a $5 bet. You can check it out at fandle.com to get started. And James, one way this defense could make strides is with personnel changes. We've seen guys getting healthier. And notably, we're seeing a slow growth.

Starting point is 00:01:35 for the role of Jordan Battle. And if you compare this to the way that roles expand on this team for other players that are earning coaches trust or earning bigger roles in the past, it might take a little bit longer. But backed up by comments from defensive coordinator Luana Rumo, it does seem like the trajectory for Jordan Battle at this point is certainly upward. Yeah, Luana Rumo on Bengals line on 700 W on Monday night, said, quote, I think Jordan is continuing to improve. we like how that rotation is going. Von is doing well in his role so we can continue to bring Jordan along and both of those guys will see significant playing time.

Starting point is 00:02:13 And I think that last part is important because you're talking about Jordan Battle played a decent amount against the Ravens, comparatively speaking, I would say defensive-wise. And we saw him start to rotate with Vaughn. This past game, even more so, 14 snaps, four tackles. You saw the production there.

Starting point is 00:02:32 And so maybe it's not. a full-on swap like some want, but can it be a rotation? It probably should be a rotation because they need to find answers to the test. And maybe that doesn't mean play Jordan 60 snaps, but maybe it means 15 to 20 or 26, depending on the week. And especially a week where it's very, very much a run-heavy Cleveland Brown's offense. Maybe we see Jordan, who tackled well You need him to tackle well. And you need guys that can make plays. And so maybe Jordan is that guy.

Starting point is 00:03:11 That's going to help you make plays. So I have no issue with Louan Arummo kind of pivoting here and searching. And they need that to continue because this secondary is going to get tested this week. I know the Deshaun Watson element of this, but Amari Cooper does exist. They do have Jerry Judy does exist. They have guys. that are capable. And so you need to be capable on the second,

Starting point is 00:03:39 on the back end as well because you don't want DeShon Watson to have his, his 2024 best day against, and he's been crappy. So that best day might not be that great. You don't want it to happen on Sunday in Cleveland. Yeah. I think that the most interesting thing to me about this might be the fact that Luana Rimo is leaning into a secondary rotation this year.

Starting point is 00:04:02 Yeah. I mean, it's not even just Jordan. battle, we're going to spend time here talking about Jordan Battle, of course, but it was Jalen Davis rotating in a significant amount in week six as well. Jordan Battle in his seven run defense snaps, he had seven run defense snaps, seven coverage snaps in his 14 snaps, according to PFS charting against the Giants in week six. He had three stops, three or two stops, which qualifies as a defensive win on a play. He was involved in making those tackles. One of them, And very easy to remember in the run game near the line of scrimmage.

Starting point is 00:04:37 You also had three tackles, didn't miss any tackles. And that is a pretty significant contribution to the stat sheet, not the tackles are a great stat. But to be around the ball to be making plays on the ball carrier on three out of your 14 plays, it's a pretty high rate of making plays on the ball. And what we've talked about for this defense is needing guys to step up and make plays. And while Jordan Battle hasn't contributed with a sack or, you know, a highlight TFL or an interception or a force fumble at this point, he's been around the ball in a very limited sample size so far. And it was a nice bounceback game for him, as it were, compared to his limited sample size against Baltimore, where he goes on to the field and immediately gets picked on and gives up a big catch on his first play of the game. But clearly, going from eight snaps against Baltimore to 14 against the Giants, he is.

Starting point is 00:05:30 doing things to get back into the coaching staffs good graces, if that is indeed why he wasn't on the field early in the season very much. One snap in week two, two snaps in week four, really not playing very much on defense this year. Getting back to a point now, where you're seeing the growth in snaps over the last couple of weeks. And maybe it takes a little time for a more significant jump because, as Louaner Rumo said, despite what many Bengals fans think while Von Bell is not a great safety, he is not a huge problem most of the time as safety. Occasionally, we see things that are very obvious and it's like, okay, Von, that was a problem play. And that's happened on like three very notable plays where it's been very visible for

Starting point is 00:06:13 Von Bell this year. But that's kind of the nature of the safety position too. So I understand that the hesitancy from Lou to say, all right, Jordan Battle is going to go be a full time strong safety or full-time rotational safety because they move guys between free and strong all the time, but he'd primarily be a strong safety. I understand the hesitance there. If Vaughn is still doing important things in terms of helping to get the defense lined up and stuff like that, maybe communication would be much worse without Vaughn on the field and it's already got its issues, right?

Starting point is 00:06:42 But these are steps in the right direction of getting a third round picket safety, which is a guy that should be expected to play safety at a high level in the NFL, a third round safety in Jordan Battle, getting him back into the mix, getting him ready to be a more full-time contributor in the future, because hopefully that is his future. For sure. And I think there was still a path to that coming into camp. It is to him coming in and potentially battling, pun intended or not intended, however you want to take it, I don't care either way. But Jordan Battle battling for that starting job, and there was no battle. And I think it had a lot to do with Jordan himself. And people roll their eyes and they do all that and that's fine.

Starting point is 00:07:26 Say whatever. But it matters. And so hopefully, and I think he is doing all the right things and it's translating now to more playing time. And hopefully they can find the balance of having Von Bell, Jordan Battle, Gino Stone. None of those guys have played to the level where they should feel comfortable in their job. They just haven't. And it was a step in the right direction, but they haven't. And people are going to cite PFF scores to me with Jordan. Jordan has everything to prove as well. And so this is what I like. I like that goes from eight snaps to 14 snaps. He's clearly impressing the coaching staff and productive. And so now, all right, well, maybe he gets 20 snaps this week. What does he do with him? Hopefully we're talking about a tipped pick, a sack,

Starting point is 00:08:17 some of those splash plays that they need. But yeah, Jordan Battle trending in the right direction. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I'm happy that he's out there and hopefully it continues. I'll also say that it could be game plan dependent. So your expectations shouldn't necessarily be that Jordan Battle will always have more snaps week over week. Maybe it isn't 20 this week. Maybe the Browns only run 50 plays after the defense for the last two weeks has been on the field for 80 plays each.

Starting point is 00:08:41 Maybe it's only 10 snaps. And that's a greater snap share from a percentage basis, right? Hopefully it is only 50. empty plays. Yeah, we don't need to see that Brown's offense more than is absolutely necessary. And we definitely don't need to see that Brown's offense going up and down the field against the Spengel's defense. It has had its issues and is embattled to continue to use the word battle, but had a bit of a bounce back. And does that change the outlook for this team? There is one thing out of this game, James, that I am buying about this defense, and it's not a big thing.

Starting point is 00:09:20 But there is one thing that I'm buying can make a difference for this defense going forward that doesn't have to do with Jordan Battle. So we can discuss that topic and more of our thoughts on the outlook for this defense, whether our minds have changed coming up next. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by LinkedIn. When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality candidates that are right for the role. That's why LinkedIn jobs is the tool that you should use with the tools you need to help find the right professionals for your team faster and for free.

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Starting point is 00:11:55 And this is the one thing I'm buying about the defense right now. I still have a lot of questions. I still don't think this is going to be a high-end unit. Don't get me wrong. But I do think the ability to actually rotate defensive linemen matters. And Sam Hubbard playing his lowest percentage of snaps, he was talking about this, I think, with Jay Morrison writing about this for Bengals Talk SI is where I saw the quote. And Sam's talking about how he's usually just trying to survive out there at the end of a game. And talking about how this week, with the rotation they had, he was feeling pretty good at the end of the game.

Starting point is 00:12:33 One of the best feelings he's had the day after a game in terms of soreness, terms of fatigue on his body, he said. And so the one thing that I am buying right now is that this won't necessarily be the worst past rushing unit in the NFL all year. And that getting guys back like Shelton Bankins, B.J. Hill, Miles Murphy, McKinley Jackson will be a better unit than we saw when it was truly dreadful out there and they're signing guys off the street who weren't even active in week six. And I'm not saying this to disparage Lawrence Guy. I think he came in and did an admirable job. But getting the veterans back who have performed at at least an average plus level in their

Starting point is 00:13:16 careers is much better than what they had for several weeks this year. Sure. And everybody's, everybody can play their role. I think that's a big part of this where maybe Lawrence guy's active this week for whatever reason, but he's playing 10 snaps and not 50, you know, and that's the balance. And so I buy it too from a if these guys, and I said this probably two weeks ago in the media room, like can the Bengals defensive line be the 20th best defensive front in the NFL if they're healthy? And again, that's not a high bar when you think about the money they're spending there. And the answer should be yes.

Starting point is 00:13:55 Now, do I feel great about their depth? No, because it's either young and inexperienced and unproven or you're mentioning it, Lawrence Guy, Guy, J.2FLA, guys like that. But if they can stay healthy, you can have a rotation where McKinley Jackson is getting valuable reps in developing right before our eyes and making an impact hopefully throughout the year. At the same time, you're not banking on those guys to play 50 snaps. And there is a balance there. And so hopefully they can stay healthy because Sheldon Rankin's, B.J. Hill, Trey Hendrickson, Sam Hubbard, especially Hubbard over the past couple of games.

Starting point is 00:14:33 I think you're starting to see like he's getting slightly healthier with that hamstring injury that's lingered. And those other three guys hopefully can continue to push forward. I think we want to see a little more from Rankins from a pass rush juice standpoint. So hopefully he brings that at some point. At the same time, Hill's probably coming off of his best game as a Bengal. Trey Hendrickson is Trey Hendrickson. So health, you need to stay healthy. If they are healthy, I do feel okay.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Not amazing, but I feel okay about this defensive front. And that's big because they have enough pieces and a smart enough coordinator in Lu Anirumo, I think, to be a competent defense in that scenario. And competent is a lot better than what we sell for a couple of weeks there. I think it's very matchup dependent too, right? They're going to continue to struggle with the Ravens. When they play the Ravens in a few weeks, I expect that to be barring significant sea level change or player acquisition, neither of which are things that I think are reasonable to expect right now.

Starting point is 00:15:36 I would expect that to be another game where they struggle on defense. If they were to play the commanders again, I think that right now, that style of quarterback, and those guys are similar, I would say, having watched them both against this Bengals defense, right? The guys that make it hard for you to bring them down because they're hyper athletic, the Josh Allen's of the world, although they've got a great track record against Josh Allen. You would think the same for Patrick Mahomes too, and they did a relatively good job in that game. So I think that the matchups still do matter quite a bit. From a pass rush perspective, though, yeah, I mean, if they could be like 23 instead of 31 or 32 in terms of a pass rush, that makes a huge difference for this team.

Starting point is 00:16:17 We just saw that from this team. Every team. Every team, yeah, sorry to kick off. Every team, I just don't want to forget this. Every team that has had a buy already has more sacks than the Bengals. So every team that's played five games has more sacks than the Bengals. The Bengals have eight sacks on the year. They're 30th in the league.

Starting point is 00:16:36 Only the Panthers and Falcons are lower. Yeah. I mean, that obviously is unacceptable, right? You need something. And that's with Trey having a couple of games with multiple sacks too, right? Like how many of those sacks are Trey? Six? Five?

Starting point is 00:16:53 I think he's got, I know he's got four, maybe more. Five. Yeah, he's got five. This week against Cleveland Browns, it's going to be the worst offensive line they face this year. In terms of pass blocking. Like out there with New England, right? And they should have had more success against New England. They got to Jacoby percent in that game actually constantly, and they just couldn't bring him down.

Starting point is 00:17:15 And Watson is another relatively big and physical quarterback who has been at times in his career hard to bring to the ground. I'm not sure if he still got that kind of ability in him with how poor he's been this year at just about everything. thing. But the one in five Cleveland Browns having lost Bill Callahan have an offensive line that is pass blocking at a very poor level consistently in every game. And they've dealt with some injuries too. So another

Starting point is 00:17:41 week for the Bengals defense to show that they are getting it together, that they can rush the passer in critical moments, that they can get off the field, that they can make plays. But again, I'm not going to be sitting here saying, yeah, this defense

Starting point is 00:17:57 is back. Even if they hold the Browns seven points this week. And that would be an accomplishment on the road in the division. But it's still one of the worst offenses in the NFL. The Browns are in the bottom of points scored this year. The 28th in point scored this year. One of the worst offenses in Browns history, according to various stats that have been posted asking for the Browns to make a quarterback change. But even if they do that this week, James, we're going to be sitting here saying we need to see more. And we need to see it for a longer period. against better teams.

Starting point is 00:18:30 You are. They're not going to hold the Browns to seven points. So it's not going to happen. Sorry. It's not. It's an awful. This is going to be a really tough game. And so that's pretty unlikely.

Starting point is 00:18:46 I mean, they had to go out a hypothetical, right? And the Giants could have scored 13 or 20 if they get into the end zone instead of turning it over if they make their field goals. Sure. I would just be, it would still surprise me if that happened. But to your point.

Starting point is 00:18:59 it needs to, the resume is the resume, it is going to take a while to build that trust and that equity, which I'm a big equity guy. And I think we can talk a little bit about equity as Jordan Battle builds up some of his equity. When we get into a Bengals rookie, that was an inactive for the first time, and a lot of people were puzzled by it, we will discuss Jermaine Burton coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Fandall. Fandall is America's number one sports book. And whether the Bengals are favored like they are this week, the line was five and a half before Sunday night football dropped to four and a half and has been moving around a little bit, whether they're favored against the Browns or you're looking for player props, same game parley's. America's number one sports book, Fandall is the place to go because Fandle is going to have everything you need. Plus, when you get a hunch in the middle of the game, you can check out the latest stats of you live play by playing so much more on the same page where you place your bet. So whether it's live, bets, whether it's prop bets, anything and everything in between, Fandall has got you covered.

Starting point is 00:20:08 And right now, you'll get started with $200 in bonus bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. All you have to do is go to fandle.com. That's fandle.com where you'll get started with $200 in bonus bets guaranteed with your first $5 bet. Again, America's number one sports book, Fandle at fandle.com. Where's Romaine Burton, James? Oh, look at you.

Starting point is 00:20:33 look at you trying to get me got no uh germain burton inactive zach taylor saying that it was just a game plan specific thing i think a lot of people rolled their ads at that and i full disclosure no nothing as to why he was inactive but i do think you can read tea leaves and part of our job is that and let's just say it out loud here if germane was doing all of the right things and building up that trust and equity, would they have made him inactive? Now, maybe I'm dead wrong. Maybe he's doing everything right. And Zach, what he said at the podium is right.

Starting point is 00:21:16 But that's hard for me to buy into. And so I don't know why he was inactive. Hopefully he is doing all of the right things because I do think he can help the team at some point. And that's what's tough here is when fans are pulling out their hair and like, I can't believe Jermaine isn't in the game. So when inactive's came down and I said to the meter, I'm like, man, if they struggle on offense, you know Jermaine Burton being inactive is going to be a topic. And of course, you know, they struggle on offense and it's a topic. So it hasn't had a

Starting point is 00:21:52 catch since week two against the chiefs. I'm not sure he's been targeted since then either. I don't think he has. But it's one of those things where fans have seen him make big plays. and they wonder why he's not out there. And I don't know why. But I assume it's because he's still earning the trust of the coaching staff and probably Joe Burrow and insert whatever else. And the fact that he's gotten like one or two snaps on offense, one or two snaps on offense and then just goes to inactive, I do think that that's telling, even if Zach Taylor

Starting point is 00:22:24 downplayed it. And so we'll see how he responds. Hopefully it's a good way. And they need him to respond in a good way because he is talented. we've seen that. And at some point, you're going to need your main burden to make plays downfield. I'm not sure when. Maybe it's the Sunday, but it does need to happen at some point. And hopefully, I mean, that's why they drafted him. So hopefully he can figure it out. They drafted him to be a physically talented downfield vertical threat, at least early in his career and do what he did in college, be a reliable downfield option.

Starting point is 00:23:00 And he has been that when he's had those opportunities between the preseason and the regular season. He's looked good in that role, which is why it's frustrating. Why can't he get on the field? He's producing when he's on the field. You can't tell me is a frequent argument that running Jermain Burton on five go balls a game or a post here and there, whatever it is. Downfield vertical options could be a detriment to the offense. You put Jemar Chase in the slot, which they've been doing a little bit more of this year. let T. Higgins,

Starting point is 00:23:30 Jermaine Burton play outside in a sub-package, and you have Germain Burton as a downfield option that has been, at least we think, reliable as far as catching the ball. Maybe he's running the wrong route like 25% of the time, which is something we speculated happened a few weeks ago where the spacing was really weird between Burton and another player on one particular play,

Starting point is 00:23:52 which was Jermaine Burton's last play of the game. It's not like he was playing a lot. That could be a coincidence. It could be that the play design was flawed. be that the other guy messed up. We don't know. But if they trusted Jermaine Burton to be out there right now, I think Occam's Razor, which for those of you that don't know what Akins Razor is, is that the simplest explanation is often the explanation. If he was a guy they trusted to do the things, they would want him to do the things, right? Because he would provide

Starting point is 00:24:23 value that they're not getting out of the third receiver right now, not to take anything away from Yoseva or whoever else has been out there because Yoshi has been clutch in the red zone on that third down. He's come up in big moments for this team, but they're not getting a ton from them. So if they're rotating in Burton for 10 snaps a game to try to get a little bit more from that spot, that wouldn't be a bad thing. I feel like if the coaching staff thought they could do it reliably, they would take that opportunity. They want to be more explosive.

Starting point is 00:24:53 They want to hit those plays too. They just don't feel like it's an option right now. be the simplest explanation, right? Yep. And I think it is. And Zach's not going to throw Jermaine under the bus. And the question is, all right, well, what's the issue? Is it playbook-wise? Is it trust there? Is it doing all of the right things from meetings and things like that? I don't know. But if he was doing all of those things, why wouldn't they want to play them? like that's the so conspiracy theorist

Starting point is 00:25:24 the guy who pounded his hand hands on the table when they drafted him 80th overall when there were NFL teams that didn't even have germane Burton draftable because of the character stuff and they take him in the third round and they don't want to play him of course they want to play him

Starting point is 00:25:40 of course they want to play him so the question is all right well what does he have to do to get to get that equity in that confidence and that trust from whoever he doesn't have it with right now. And that's the question that he has to answer, and he's got to solve it. He does.

Starting point is 00:25:57 If this team is going to reach its ceiling, germane Burton being a threat is certainly part of it. Germain Burton being this downfield threat, I think when they drafted him initially, they thought he could move around right away. And then they kind of pulled things back a little bit, realized, all right, yeah, you played slot in and outside in college, but you might not necessarily do that here. And so early on, because it's tough. The slot position for the Bengals is not easy.

Starting point is 00:26:31 And so, all right, so that's tough. Let's dial it back. Okay, they dialed it back and it's still, it's not like the trust is fully there. How do you get it there? And this coaching staff needs to search and find a way to get the most out of Germain. And Germaine does too. And hopefully, within the next few weeks. We're seeing him trend in the right direction again because going into that Kansas City game, you had all that praise that was thrown at him. And then he kind of came back down a bit

Starting point is 00:27:00 from a playing time standpoint. And it is hard. It is hard to stay focused and do the right things day in and day out if you know you're only getting one snap. But guess what? You're a rookie. So do it.

Starting point is 00:27:12 And that's got to be his mindset. He's got to attack it regardless. And hopefully he is, because if he is, the talent's there and it'll pull through and he'll be fine. Yeah, I need that for the long-term future of the team, right? That's what we're looking at for the rest of the season is get it together, get on the field, find ways to contribute on the stretch so that there's some confidence built in your ability to be a regular receiver for this team long-term. For sure. And help now. I mean, obviously that too.

Starting point is 00:27:46 Yeah. But at least they have T this year. for sure and in that's I guess that's to your point like can you show that oh well maybe you can be that guy because as of now if the drafts tomorrow guess what's a huge need you know and and so yeah that's uh it is a good point and and so hopefully he can help now and and earn some some of that long term trust as well that that's just what I'm talking about is like a minimum hope for this year. Obviously, you hope for more. You hope that he can contribute to the team this year and help them get back to winning more football games. But like in the games, he wasn't doing much

Starting point is 00:28:26 since that Kansas City games. It's not like the offense was struggling. I don't think that Jermaine Burton unlocks the offense against the Giants. I don't think him playing in that game. Go listen to what Mike and I talked about for like 25 minutes yesterday. The issues weren't receivers besides Jermarche's having a drop. It was when the ball was coming out. It was at times play calling. It was at times the offensive lines ability to handle stunts with two guys on an island. And none of that is solved by an explosive vertical receiver. Burrow had a shot at T. Higgins, a guy that he does trust one-on-one against single high, and he just ate it on that play. So like, if that's Jermaine Burton, do you think he's throwing that ball? I have a hard time

Starting point is 00:29:09 buying that Burton specifically makes a huge difference in week six. Maybe I'm wrong. Fun fact, Eric All has 16 catches for 102 yards. If I had told you before the season started, like right after the draft that Eric All through six games would have more catches and yards and Jermaine Burton, what would you have thought? After the draft? Ooh.

Starting point is 00:29:31 Like right after. Yeah, wouldn't have bought it. I think in camp when it started to come together, I remember telling a few people like, oh, he's going to out snap certain tight ends and people kind of roll their eyes. and we see now with Eric. But yeah, after the draft,

Starting point is 00:29:47 I wouldn't have said that. And yet here we are. And I think that's where expectations have changed, like with Germain. Like, let's be honest about it. The Bengals, heck, go back and listen. They really thought that this guy was going to be able to come in and move around right away. Not be Jamar, who was just insane right away, but give them some of that. And early on, they were like, all right, let's dial it back some, which is fine because it's hard.

Starting point is 00:30:12 It's hard to get adjusted to all. of the things that Joe Burrow and in this offense want you to do in this offense. But all right, now it's time to push forward. And so whether it's playbook, whether it's anything else, it's time for Germain to head down, focus, and hopefully he is and has been. And Zach is right. It just doesn't feel like we have the whole picture. That's all.

Starting point is 00:30:37 There is apparently some work to do there. Let's say that. That's how it seems. Eric All, just to finish that thought, tied for eighth among rookies, interceptions at 16 was Xavier Leggett of the Carolina Panthers. Fourth round, tied out. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Starting point is 00:30:58 That's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We're back tomorrow with our crossover and our first look as we think about the trip to Cleveland in 2024. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Huda and have a good book.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Jordan Battle's role expanding for Cincinnati Bengals, but what are we buying about this defense after a bounceback in Week 6?

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