Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Mike Potts breaks down the Bengals' Draft | Part 1: Shemar Stewart & Draft-Day Trades

Starting point is 00:00:00 Bengals director of college scouting, Mike Potts is here to break down the Bengals selection of Shamar Stewart in the first round. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. I'm Jake Liskow. He's James Rapine, and we've been covering the Cincinnati. Cincinnati Bengals here on Lockdown Bengals since 2016.

Starting point is 00:00:39 Welcome back to the everydayers. For those of you who are not everydayers, you can hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss an episode of Lockdown Bengals on YouTube or anywhere you get your podcast. And shout out to all of you who make Lockdown Bengals your first listen as well. Today's episode brought to you by Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K that can turn your TV into an Xbox with no console needed. Check that out at Amazon.com slash Fire TV LockedV.

Starting point is 00:01:05 on to learn more. We're going to talk to Mike Potts in the first of a two-part episode, two parts of an interview with Mike Potts in two episodes. And we're going to start with a lot of conversation here, James, about Shamar Stewart and getting into some of the conversation around the process that led to that pick and a little bit on some of the trade opportunities for the Bengals in this draft. Yeah, it's exciting. Shout out to Mike for always coming on every single year. We made it a two-part episode because this is a lot on Shamar Stewart, a lot on what trades in war room stuff can look like. And then on our next show, it's going to be a lot on Demetrius Knight, the rest of the draft class, what the next couple of weeks are like from Mike Potts as well.

Starting point is 00:01:49 But let's start with part one. Let's start with pick number one. We were joined by Mike Potts to talk about Shamar Stewart and much, much more. Mike Potts with us today, the Bengals director of college scouting with his annual visit with Lockdown Bengals to talk about what happened in the Cincinnati Bengals draft class this year, 2025 to talk about. And an exciting first round pick, Mike, from a traits perspective. And I got to tell you, every time you were looking at the first round,

Starting point is 00:02:18 when we were doing our mock draft Mondays and when we're working through it, it felt like the likely options for you at 17, we're going to carry some sort of risk, whether there were questions off the field, whether there were questions in terms of medical, potentially whether there were questions in terms of production. But obviously you felt with Shamar Stewart that the upside was worth the risk. Can you talk a little bit about how you arrived at that conclusion with a guy that has tons of athletic tools? Yeah, it's always a tough balance to balance out all the different factors of all of these guys.

Starting point is 00:02:54 Obviously, there's a risk with any pick that you're making, whether it's in terms of the production in this case, that's a lot of people's question mark with Shamar. Some guys don't have the athletic testing or the measurables. Some guys have a lesser play history. Some guys have age issues. You know, it's very rare that a guy is going to check all those boxes. So there was a ton of different discussions that we had in the draft room and like we can get into on all of these picks. You know, they're differing opinions within our draft room on a lot of different players.

Starting point is 00:03:24 And that's really what produces productive conversations in the draft room. And then, you know, people being open-minded and listening to different perspectives. is what really produces the best results for us. So Shamar is a guy that we did a ton of work on and obviously had a really high regard for. We're really excited to get him with our coaches and see what he can end up being for our defense and the impact that he can make.

Starting point is 00:03:48 Mike, how important was the coaching staff specifically with, and I think this is going to be a theme throughout our conversation when it comes to your draft class, but the coaching staff specifically with Shamar, with someone that, Yeah, he checks a ton of boxes, except the sack numbers and the overall production box and kind of forecasting what he can be with Jerry Montgomery, who got to town but has developed guys like Rashan Gary in the past. Obviously, Al Golden, you guys have a history with. How important was it to have those guys in the decision to take a prospect like Shamar?

Starting point is 00:04:25 Yeah, everybody in our draft room has a voice in the process. It comes down to Duke with the final decision. in terms of how much he weighs each person's opinion and each person's thoughts on every individual prospect. But it was great working with our coaching staff. Like you said, we've known Al for a long time and had a great relationship with him, even continuing over the last several years going through and scouting at Notre Dame when he was there. But Jerry's done a great job. He's worked really hard for us throughout this draft process.

Starting point is 00:04:57 And, you know, he's, Shamar's a guy that he was really fired up the coach. Like you mentioned with some of the guys that he's had in the past. with somewhat similar backgrounds, somewhat similar production levels and levels of the physical traits and numbers that you see maybe from the Combine and Pro Day and things like that. So it was awesome working with those guys. That's what you want at the end of the day. You want across the board, you want alignment from your personnel staff

Starting point is 00:05:20 and your coaches. You want your coaches fired up to work with the guy and you want your personnel staff fired up in terms of their evaluation and what that guy can be for us. So he was the guy where we had alignment on. And, you know, obviously you've got to stack your board all the way down to that pick. You know, a lot of guys ended up getting wiped out at our pick, but Shamar was the guy standing there that we felt really good about.

Starting point is 00:05:41 You use that word alignment, very popular word this year when it comes to the Bengals organization, the word of the off season, I've called it here, on Lockdown Bengals. But when you're talking about that alignment for Shamar Stewart, and again, you have this player who's testing like someone not from the planet, who shows that burst get off power on tape, but maybe needs a little bit of refinement in terms of pass rush moves or the finishing part of his game

Starting point is 00:06:09 that he's talked about staying on his feet a little bit more or whatever the issue may be. Is that alignment something that extends to a conversation with the coaching staff that is to the development plan as well? Like it's, okay, we're going to get some Mark Stewart in the building. These are the things that we think we need to work on to get him to take that step

Starting point is 00:06:28 and be a very productive player right away. It definitely is. It's everything from where we're going to line him up to his physical skill set, the way he sees the game, what he's been exposed to in his college defense that he's played in. We analyze it from every possible angle. And working together with the coaching staff in terms of that vision is something that we really build up a consensus on in terms of what the vision is that we see for Shamar. Once we have him here, he's got some things. that you really love, like you mentioned, you can't really coach some of the physical traits he has. But one thing that he chooses to do is play hard really on a consistent basis.

Starting point is 00:07:08 And you never want to take that away from him. But at the same time, maybe if he came under control it sometimes at the top of the rush, he'd be able to finish some more. And just with the vision our coaches have and, you know, the football knowledge that they're going to continue to instill in him, I think the upside is through the roof. I'm putting you on the spot here, Mike, just full disclosure for anyone watching or listening. But was there,

Starting point is 00:07:35 is there a play that stands out from Shamar's tape or a moment from the Combine interview or something someone told you that stuck with you throughout the process? I'm open to any of them from a play to a comment or moment, but that really stuck with you during this process. So when you went into those meetings to hammer out the draft board a few weeks ago,

Starting point is 00:07:56 you're like, hey, this is why we would consider, or at least part of why we would consider this guy with the 17th effect. I think there's not probably one play that stands out on tape because there's a ton of them that are over. Obviously, everybody wants to make out the negatives and magnify the miss sacks and things like that, but there's a ton of disruptive plays on tape,

Starting point is 00:08:19 you know, in the backfield, hitting the quarterback, blowing up the mesh point on zone read type plays, RPO's, you know, knocking the ball out of the ball carrier's hand and some of the most impressive plays you'll ever see in pursuit running guys down. So I think when I hear your question, the thing that comes to mind is seeing those things on tape, we knew he was going to test really well the way he did just based on what we saw on tape

Starting point is 00:08:42 and then the way that their strength staff and their coaching staff there at A&M talked about them. So then that aligns at the combine in terms of the testing numbers he put up, but also the interview portion of it and the way that they spoke about is care. So once our evaluations from talking to sources at the school and watching the tape, then aligned with our exposure to him in person at the Combine and the Pro Day, and then also the Senior Bowl as well. I mean, he wreaked havoc all week there. You know, the days that he was there, it was, I mean, I guess you could probably say he had more sacks there

Starting point is 00:09:13 than he did this year on his college tape. You know, I don't know if that's a positive or a negative, but it's not like this guy is, it's not in his body or within the realm of his abilities to get sacks at the next level. It's going to be our coach's job to work with them and do it. And I think we've got a good plan in place to get that accomplished. Today's video is brought to you by game time. There's nothing like the atmosphere of an NBA playoff game. Every bucket, every defensive stop.

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Starting point is 00:10:17 and use code, locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, creating an account and redeem code, L-O-C-E-D-O-N-N-FLK-N-FLK-N-FLK-N-FLK-N-FL-N-FL-N-FL-L-A-L-L-L-S-T-T-E-L-U-S-BOR-T. When you hear the trades versus production stuff, you've obviously talked about a bunch of productivity for Shemar Stewart that didn't come in the way of things that are going to show up on the stat sheet in a way that's like a tackle for loss or a sack. You obviously led the team in pressures.

Starting point is 00:10:47 We've heard that a lot between this election and today. how do you evaluate production in a league and a position like edge rusher where there's such a long history in the NFL of traits guys turning into traits and production guys in the NFL? Yeah, production is a huge piece of our evaluation. Like you said, production can come in numerous different ways. If the disruptiveness was not on tape, if he was missing the sacks and was also not disruptive, He's probably not a guy we would have taken in the first round. But you see the disruptiveness.

Starting point is 00:11:24 He's moving the quarterback off his spot. He's running ball carriers down. So you do see that. It's a huge piece of the evaluation for sure. We took other guys in this draft class that are some of the most productive guys at their position. You know, Tosh Brooks comes to mind. He's one of the more productive running backs in this draft class for sure. So we absolutely value the production.

Starting point is 00:11:46 We wish everything across the board lined up. but not every prospect is going to check every box. And really, I mean, listen, I'm not here to make the case for, you know, the guy being more productive than he was. At the end of the day, the stats are the stats, and he did not finish some of those sacks. So that's something that he's going to need to be better at. I'm not here to oversell Shamar or anybody else as something that they're not. But again, at the end of the day, when we work through the whole process and we see the potential of what he can be in the NFL, that's why our jobs are really hard. in the NFL and there's a lot of pressure.

Starting point is 00:12:21 It's the highest level of football in the world. And what we're doing is projecting young men and what they're going to be in the NFL, maybe even more so than what they have done in college. Because there's also the other end of it, guys that have been super productive in college that maybe don't have those traits to project to the next level

Starting point is 00:12:37 to be a productive player in the NFL. So there's a lot of different angles to evaluate it from. And at nauseam, we went through all those different scenarios. The last thing I have on Sharmes, and it's really similar, Mike, to a question I asked you last year at this time about Amarius, and I'm having deja vu a little bit. But I think, especially on Thursday night and into Friday, it was, man, that's such a risky pick because of his lack of production. But now nearly a week where six days after you guys took Shamar, I just think with the athletic trades, I met him, I talked to him.

Starting point is 00:13:15 It feels like he has an awesome attitude and work ethic. You mentioned he doesn't have the sacks, but it feels like his floor is much higher than a boomer bust guy. Like I don't think the bust potential is high because he is a high character guy and he is, has all of those, those treats that you look for. Am I, did you guys view it that way as well? Because I just, I think he can play as a rookie even if he hasn't figured everything out because he's such a freak and he has the right mindset. And I don't think he's going to be lazy or anything like that. Is that aligned at all from your guys' point of view? I think it's a great point that you bring up,

Starting point is 00:13:53 and I do remember talking about that with you guys last year with Amarius. I mean, those two guys are very similar in a lot of ways. They are absolute freak shows at the top of their position in the whole world. There's not too many people like those two guys. And, you know, there were some questions in their profile for sure. Like we talked about last year, I think Amarius is floor. was much, much higher than maybe some people were willing to give him credit for. And I feel very similar about Shamar here this year.

Starting point is 00:14:25 I think you saw that with Amarius in his rookie year. He can be a guy that can be at the top of the league. I have absolutely no question in saying that. He can be as good as he wants to be. He's as talented as anybody in the league at his position. And Shamar, like I said, I mean, there's not too many guys with the physical gifts that he has. Now, again, it's up to us to put a plan in place and get more production out of them. And I do think he has it in his body.

Starting point is 00:14:52 It's not like he's lacking for physicality. It's not like he's lacking for effort or want to. And everybody knows he's got all the athletic gifts you could ever ask for. So it's really exciting when you put it all together. But that's a great point that you bring up. And that's something that came up in our draft room as well in terms of just, obviously, they're completely different positions. But there's a lot of parallels there between Omarius and Shamar.

Starting point is 00:15:14 It's one of those things where you. you get to a certain level of athletic traits and people see it as only a ceiling conversation. But at some point, there's a certain level of athleticism, especially at certain positions, where if the guy has a character and he's going to work hard, that does tell you about a floor to some degree. Because if you're trying hard and you're that athletic and you're doing what your coach is say, there's a certain floor that comes along with that when you're that athletic. But, Mike, let's talk a little bit about the second round, the third round guys. the Demetrius Knight, Dylan Fairchild selections.

Starting point is 00:15:48 This is where I want to ask about the coaching influence a little bit specifically. Obviously, a big change for the position coaches, well, for the defensive coordinator and the linebackers coach and also the offensive line coach. So some key coaching changes from last year to this year, one of the bigger coaching changes we've seen under Zach Taylor. And I know every year you're used to collaborating with coaches. But how, I guess, did it change this year? or what were the main differences without Golden that you can speak to and coach Peters running those rooms and their input in the process for the offensive line and some of these defensive players? I think in a lot of ways it was a very similar process to the way that we've done it in the past. Like I said, we give everybody in the draft room gets a strong voice.

Starting point is 00:16:35 We give all of our position coaches a chance to come up to the front of the room in our April meetings and they go down their stack at their position and they rank all their guys. they highlight guys that they think are really good scheme fits for us and really they have a strong vision for at that given position. And, you know, Al Golden, Scott Peters that you mentioned, you know, our other new coaches as well that we hired, you know, they were all very helpful throughout this process and guys that we really did a good job, I think, from their end and our end, getting on the same page and coming down to guys that we had alignment and consensus on.

Starting point is 00:17:12 And if there was differences of opinion, like I said, there's always differences opinion in the draft room. Maybe if we had a gap in that vision, then we got another look at it from another coach and another scout, and then we continued to talk through it. And if we still couldn't come up with a vision for the guy, then maybe we shot away from that player. But I can't speak more highly of those new coaches that we added

Starting point is 00:17:33 and what they brought to our process. By the way, the disagreements or the debate would be the fun part to me, not necessarily being in there on draft night, but all those meetings would be a lot of fun if I could be a fly on the wall, just throwing that out there. I know that'll never happen. But anyways, that's a side thought. I do wonder process wise, coaching wise, and just roster construction-wise, if you guys went into this draft and said, hey, we know we need to address linebacker with a guy that can come in right away, be able to play, that we can be confident in, that we project to be able to start. Is that something a week ago you guys felt like you needed to accomplish, regardless of where in the draft, but find a guy that could potentially start day one because I feel like everyone in the building feels that way about Demetrius?

Starting point is 00:18:22 Yeah, we do feel that way about him. We went into the process knowing that linebacker was a position we wanted to address. You want a guy, obviously, that can play early and has the makeup and the athletic traits and the quality tape of Demetrius. So he was the guy that we targeted throughout the process. There was a number of linebackers that we liked in this draft at different levels. Obviously, we ended up with Barrett Carter as well, double dipping at the position. I don't think we went in with specific plans of double dipping or taking a linebacker in this specific round or the exact way that it played out being our vision for it.

Starting point is 00:19:00 But obviously, we evaluated all those players. It was a position that we wanted to attack. And again, there are differences of opinion in the draft room. you've got different players and different scenarios that could play out. Everybody lays out their opinions on it. Everybody, like I said, has a voice. You've got potential trade scenarios that you discuss through. And then again, that's why Duke has a hard job.

Starting point is 00:19:21 He's there at the front of the room. He has to take in all of that information and all those opinions. And at the end of the day, he has to make a final decision. And, you know, in those cases, he ended up pulling those names off the board that we did with our six picks. And we move forward with it and we're happy with those guys. I like all the guys that we added, and we're really excited about all six of them. Did you know your Fire TV is also an Xbox? Turn any TV into your gaming entertainment hub with Fire TV stick 4K devices, no console

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Starting point is 00:20:36 Xbox GamePass ultimate subscription and compatible controller required, available on select devices, including Fire TV Stick 4K, Fire TV Stick 4K Max, and Fire TVQ. We'd love to talk about Demetrius Knight specifically. I have one more kind of general process question here before I ask, or we follow it specifically about the player, but with Linebacker being a clear priority, we've talked about all these different factors that go into your board over the years

Starting point is 00:21:01 from a film perspective, production perspective, the medical questions that we as the public generally never know about your own determination of a character grade. How does positional priority play into things when you have those April meetings and you're trying to stack players on your board and you're trying to figure out, okay, we really like Demetrius Knight. We like him at a similar level to some player at another position and our priority for linebacker is going to maybe be a tiebreaker.

Starting point is 00:21:27 Is that how it works at all or am I way off base with imagining how that? that process plays out. No, it's along those lines. There's a lot of different factors. You can go with the highest graded player. You can go with maybe a quote unquote premium position. You can go with the position of need. So there's a lot of different factors and you weigh everything into it.

Starting point is 00:21:47 And like I said, everybody has a voice in that room. Everybody's laying out their opinions. We circle back even till we're, you know, coming up on the clock, maybe three, four picks away with our pick coming up. We'll circle back. Okay, these are our three guys that we have left here. order one, two, three, let's go back through them. What are your thoughts on them? What are your thoughts on them? You know, coach, scout, whoever has evaluated these guys, and we go through it,

Starting point is 00:22:10 and we rehash it, and we make sure we feel really good about it when we're on the clock. And then again, like I said, we, that's our process. And Duke makes that final call. And once we take the guy, we're moving forward with it. We're not second-guessing anything or any decision. And those guys are Bengals. And, you know, like I said, I think all of these guys that we took are going to have an impact for us. It just remains to be seen how everything will play out. But there's been a lot of work that's going into all of these guys. And obviously, a ton of guys that we didn't end up acquiring as well. But, you know, we're just going to have to see how it ends up playing out. And I'm excited to get these guys out here at rookie minicamp next week. This isn't really about a specific

Starting point is 00:22:52 round. And I know Jake wants to ask you about Demetrius. So we'll get back to the players. But just in general, if there's trade opportunities and you're hashing out two to three guys, just to make sure that you have the order the way you want and all of those things. Plus insert team calls. And now you're thinking of, all right, well, should we do this? Should we not? Obviously, you mentioned it Duke makes the final call. But how hectic is that seven minutes? Because it might not come when you're first on the clock. You may get the trade call with seven minutes on the clock. How hectic is that time? It's maybe not quite as hectic as you would think. because our staff does a great job reaching out

Starting point is 00:23:30 to every possible team in the league that we could sketch out a potential hypothetical trade with in terms of knowing what the compensation would be, say we're, in this case, we're looking to move back. Another team is targeting a specific player. Hey, if our guy is there, this is what the compensation would be. If he falls to your pick there, this is what we would be willing to give up.

Starting point is 00:23:52 We may be negotiating back and forth of, okay, this is, you know, we reach an agreement to where, we find some middle ground that both ends would be comfortable at. So there's a lot of those deals that are potentially sketched out in advance of being on the clock. Then when you're on the clock, maybe last minute, maybe you get a call or two while you're on there. But to answer your question, a lot of those calls and potential trades are sketched out in advance of being actually on the clock. So it's not quite as hectic as you might think it would be. And then at the end of the day, once you see the pick come off the board right before your selection, then you're on

Starting point is 00:24:29 the clock. You may wait a minute or two, see if you get a last minute phone call. At the end of the day, we just have to make a decision on whether do we want to take that trade and is this the player that we feel good about taking and we don't want to move off of or are we open to moving back or moving out of that selection? That reminds me of one other question about trades. Do you believe, as I think I've seen reported or speculated on by those in the media, do you believe at this point everybody's using essentially the same trade value chart?

Starting point is 00:25:00 And I've heard there's a new trade value chart sometime in the last like 15 years. And would you say that all teams are kind of on the same page for how each pick is valued for the formula? I would say no. I would say every team does not use the same chart. There are multiple charts out there. There's multiple charts that we look at. And then we combine those charts that we use. and our team has done great work on research in terms of teams, GMs, what charts they are most likely using, you know, what their trade tendencies and history has been, even with prior teams that they've worked for and been employed for.

Starting point is 00:25:39 So there's a lot of research and analysis that goes into that trade component of it. and there are multiple charts that teams use. Some maybe value how high the pick is more so, and maybe other charts value the amount of picks that you would be netting and gaining in a tradeback. They may value that a little bit more so than how high the pick is. There's part one of our discussion with Mike Potts, finishing up on some very interesting, maybe only to me,

Starting point is 00:26:12 hopefully to you, conversation about how the NFL on the whole approaches trading on draft day and the various trade charts out there. Honestly surprised by that answer, James. But in part two, we get into the rest of the Bengals draft. We only really got to one player in great depth in this episode. So we'll talk Demetrius Knight, Dylan Fairchild, Jalen Rivers, Taj Brooks, and the rest of the Bengals draft class in our next episode with Mike Pot.

Starting point is 00:26:41 So make sure you don't miss that one. That'll be up on YouTube and anywhere you get your podcast tomorrow. So until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hoodei and have a good book.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Mike Potts breaks down the Bengals' Draft | Part 1: Shemar Stewart & Draft-Day Trades

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