Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - New Bengals OL Coach Scott Peters' unique path to NFL coaching, plus potential progress with Paycor lease negotiations?

Starting point is 00:00:00 We're still waiting for the Cincinnati Bengals to make their defensive coordinator move. So let's catch up on what we've learned about Scott Peters. And what's going on with that pay course stadium lease. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans. Welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskow.

Starting point is 00:00:32 He's your host, James Rapine. And we are locked on Bengals on the Lockdown podcast. that we're covering your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. If you want to join the everydayers out there and all those that make us their first listen, well, you can just hit that subscribe button and make sure you don't miss an episode. And if you've already done that, well, thank you for your support of the lockdown Bengals podcast, the best place to stay up to date on what's going on with the Bengals. And we've talked about Al Golden a ton.

Starting point is 00:00:59 We're still waiting for the Bengals to make that move for the defensive coordinator position that is all but inevitable or just inevitable. Today we're going to circle back to the offensive line coach hire, Scott Peters. I've learned a little bit more about him and what he's bringing to the table since we first talked about that hire. And there's been some movement, as it were, after emails leaked, what was that last week, about the Pay Corps lease extension on an obstacle that seemed to exist between the team and the county. We'll discuss what's going on with that Pay Corps lease extension as well. Today's episode brought to you by prize picks where you can use promo code locked on NFL to get $50 instantly when you play your first $5. And James, let's start by circling back to Scott Peters, who with a little bit of time, we've had an opportunity to learn a little bit more about between interviews and more information coming to light.

Starting point is 00:01:54 Yeah, I think the reaction has been quite interesting because you look at Peters and last year with New England. and I think there are a lot of people that are like, why wouldn't you have gotten, insert whatever experienced guy, and they don't really know offensive line coaches' names, so they say it that way. And I think the more you hear about Scott Peters, the more that you like.

Starting point is 00:02:18 At least that's where I'm at. And whether it's a, his ability or, and I don't even know if I want to go that far, the potential that in its sense, seems like what appears to be his ability to develop guys, his approach, the way he cut his teeth in the league, the way he became a coach, how he became a coach, everything in between. And Dan Horta interviewed Scott Peters on the Bengals Booth podcast.

Starting point is 00:02:49 And it's just, it filled in some of those nooks and crannies that you had read about. And it's just like, yeah, this makes sense. I don't know if it's going to work. but if you tell me that it's a seven-year pro that was on a Super Bowl runner-up in the Arizona Cardinals in 2010 in his final year, a guy that, man, oh man, should the Cardinals have won that game, a guy that learned, not only learned Jiu-Jitsu, but became a world champion because he just stumbled into a Jiu-Jitsu gym during his NFL career while he was hurt and realized that the leverage in the hands. hand-to-hand fight and all of those things can translate some and it extended his career. Like I just, it checks a lot of boxes.

Starting point is 00:03:35 I don't know if he's going to be good. But much like the defensive coordinator search, you just kind of look and look at the logic. And obviously we've talked about the coaching ties and all of those things. The more I hear about Scott Peters, and I haven't talked to him yet. Hope to soon. Scott, please come on the show. But it's the more I hear, the more I like for sure. Yeah, and the path is very interesting.

Starting point is 00:04:00 I think that is one of the more fascinating aspects of Scott Peters to me. And when you compare that path to the path of many offensive line coaches in the league, it further accentuates the difference as an approach that you might expect to see from Scott Peters, especially when you listen to him talk on the Bengals Boot podcast with Dan Horton describe how the run game coordinator coordination of this offense is not something that he will be responsible for. but it's something of the offensive staff will be doing together on the whole. And hopefully, that collaborative approach leads to a better marriage between the run game and the past game, which is something we've been talking about a lot, right?

Starting point is 00:04:39 But from... Real quick, before we move past that, that is such a huge, huge thing, because if he's going to be the right higher, the run game is going to get fixed. And look the way Zach and Dan, Zach Taylor, Dan, I almost said, Horde, Dan Pippitt, want it to to look like, right? And so you're right, we've spent time on that. But I think that's a huge point, to your point, that it'll be a collaborative effort. And I wonder what those meetings, those game playing meetings, all of those things are going to look like.

Starting point is 00:05:12 Yeah. And if that works out, then the hire is great on his face. But the difference in the background between Frank Pollock, offensive lineman to offensive line coach and Scott Peters, offensive lineman to amiss martial artists to individual offensive line training program, development, and curriculum, to I'm going to consult with Bill Callahan, to I'm going to be an assistant offensive line coach to Bill Callahan to now offensive line coach is a very different path. Not to say that Frank doesn't have technical training background at all. It seems like there's a big focus from a Peter's perspective on the,

Starting point is 00:05:55 the teaching of technique providing tools for players to do their jobs. And Frank, if you listen to Joe Goodberry on his show this week, was when he came to Cincinnati from Dallas, seen as a guy who could get a unit to work together. It wasn't necessarily the technician that Scott Peters is, because they're coming from different backgrounds, right? You listen to Willie Anderson talk about this. Same thing.

Starting point is 00:06:22 You have offensive black coaches in the NFL that are like, you need to block this guy. And there's obviously some technique. Obviously, there's always going to be some. But there's this focus from NFL offensive line coaches if you listen to Willie, and he would know he's experienced it from both a training perspective and as a player on your game planning responsibilities, your X's and O's responsibilities, your install responsibilities, and not such a focus on technique development.

Starting point is 00:06:50 And Peters is coming from a totally different angle. And so if that's the approach here, you're going from traditional offensive line coach to a guy who has this focus on technique, has this focus on development, has this focus on player training, also has experience working on systems with Bill Callahan. And all of his NFL coaching experience comes under Bill Callahan, who has consistently throughout his career built great systems, great running games. You put all that together. and you can see why this could make sense. And, you know, you can look at the Patriots performance. You can look at the draft picks. We can ask hopefully how involved he was with the scouting process.

Starting point is 00:07:31 He talked about with Dan Horde what he likes from a scouting perspective and focused on intelligence and character and length and those traits. I found that interesting. But he's largely credited with the Wyatt Teller emergence in Cleveland. I think that's the big success story that people point to with Peters. and in New England, he simply had no good players. I mean, it was bereft of talent, if you ask, NFL evaluators. And I asked an NFL source and kind of dismissed the New England criticisms.

Starting point is 00:08:02 He said they had the worst offensive line talent in the league described Peters as an expert pass pro technician, which is obviously something that fits with the Bengals. Well, versed in run scheme will fit it to the personnel. Awesome guy that takes no craft, but players will enjoy his demeanor. listen to him talk with Dan Horde, that the way he talks about coaching offensive line, the last quote from the league source that he's super detailed, you can hear that in the way that he talks about how he's going to coach. Yeah, I think there's a lot there.

Starting point is 00:08:36 And the ultimate thing, the only reason Scott Peters matters, the only reason is to protect not. That might be with the run game. That might be with the reason people care, the reason we're talking about him, the reason my offensive line is a topic each and every year on locked on Bengals and for Bengals fans always is to keep Joe up right. And so he knows how the Bengals play. He's seen it firsthand. And that's the other element here that I think is important, is knowing that they got to fix this. Again, the run game just felt like a sidecar. And it can be from an attempt standpoint,

Starting point is 00:09:14 but it's got to be in partnership with the past game. And you have to be able to use it to finish games. And it'll help Joe not have to be the superhuman, I robot processor in the red zone. And in times when it's just really, really hard to play the way they're playing, it's why I have more thoughts on this. It's why they weren't an elite offense this year.

Starting point is 00:09:39 They're really good, really good offense. But they were inconsistent. And so they can get better on offense. Let's continue with some more on Scott Peters. We'll do that coming up next. Therapy is a game changer. It can help manage stress, improve sleep, and communicate more effectively. But finding the right therapist and fitting sessions into a busy schedule, well, it can be a challenge.

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Starting point is 00:10:53 space 80 at Talkspace.com slash locked on NFL for $80 off your first month. You have more thoughts, James. Well, yeah. I think, again, it's all about Joe, the idea of not taking anything off of his plate necessarily, but giving him a couple more tools

Starting point is 00:11:22 than the tool belt to use. and if you had a run game that to your point could close games if you had a run game that looked in run formations that looked identical to past formations and not that they didn't have that but it's very clear that frank pollock's rushing attack versus what the bengals did passing game we all felt it we felt it for years and i don't put that all on frank i really don't but it needs to be fixed. And so hopefully this is the way to fix that with a guy in Scott Peters who obviously knows what Zach Taylor wants. I'm sure he met with Dan pitcher and knows what Dan wants. And so they need to be a partnership, which is why I think the not giving in the run game

Starting point is 00:12:10 coordinator title, who cares? That's fine. Because ultimately they need to be in complete lockstep every Sunday, Monday, Thursday, or Saturday, I guess, because they'll probably have a Saturday game too. And Orlando Brown, I think, credited Peters with some, he was brought in as a consultant in Oklahoma, at Oklahoma when Orlando Brown was in Oklahoma. Orlando Brown talked about that being some of his first exposure to independent hands, which if you ever listen to Willie Anderson talk about offensive line, you've heard him talk about the importance of independent hand usage in the modern NFL, the way pass-wash

Starting point is 00:12:48 moves have evolved and how two-hand punching is so. antiquated and I even pointed it out during the national championship game on a Jack Sawyer pressure where it's a two-hand punch and he just knocks it down and runs around the edge of the offensive linemen. Two-hand punching not necessarily the best way to go about blocking Miles Garrett in the modern NFL. So interesting that Orlando Brown pointed out that connection with Peters going back to his Oklahoma days and bringing those modernized approaches hopefully leads to players that have better tools in the bag on the offensive line to be more effective in everything they're doing. And if the detailed approach you're talking about, like, here's what

Starting point is 00:13:32 we need you to do on this play. Here's some tools that we think will give you the ability to do that instead of just go block this guy, go block this guy. And here's some of the tools that we've taught you that you can use. And I'm not saying that Frank didn't do this, but just hearing Peter's talking about it, it sounds like a good approach. It makes sense. Right. And in terms of taking the offense to the next level that you were starting to talk about, James, being able to be confident in, I'm going to change this play to a run on third and goal from the three, and we're going to be able to execute that play and score a touchdown there. Or being able to run to close out games or run to bleed clock when you're up 10 with six

Starting point is 00:14:14 minutes left in a game and you don't want to give the opposing offense to more possessions. These are things that the Bengals were not able to do very well. This year or really last year either, 23 or 24. They weren't great at it. And I know that things really changed when Jake Browning became the quarterback late in the year in 23, or I guess the second half of the year. But those building a run game, and again, the National Championship game serving as a great microcosm for this, when you can threaten the run game like that, when you also have those guys

Starting point is 00:14:47 on the outside that Ohio State certainly does, it just makes you that much harder to stop, even when there is a defense that tries to throw the kitchen sink at you and has a whole bunch of things that they can try to do to answer you. Yeah, I think it's part of it. I think the other thing with Scott Peters that's going to be interesting is just having a new person, a new set of eyes evaluating, and hopefully, like the Cordell-Volsson pick, right?

Starting point is 00:15:16 I think Frank Pollock, in this, again, I may be way often. Duke Tobin, someone may say this to Duke Tobin and they may laugh. But I think Cordell Voulson is the anti-Jackson Carmen. I think Frank Pollack was like, man, you're giving me this guy that has talent in Jackson that has no work ethic, that has no care, that is never going to be good. Give me a guy that works hard. And that's fine. But just because Cordell Wollson works really, really hard doesn't mean he's going to be a good past protecting guard.

Starting point is 00:15:46 for the Cincinnati Bengals. And so you need to find the happy medium here where you have all the attitude that you need and the right mindset and all of those things. But you can also not get run over right away where Joe Burrow has to move. And this was on hard knocks. I just watched last week's hard knocks last night.

Starting point is 00:16:07 And the Steelers and the Ravens both playing a snap where Cam Heward just goes right through Cordell Bolson, like right through them. And I get it. It's Cam Hayward. But that can't happen. That's not what's supposed to happen. You're not supposed to be a bowling pin.

Starting point is 00:16:25 And I like Cordell, but I do think that the evaluation standpoint here, the development standpoint, you mentioned Wyatt Teller, like that's huge as they go into free agency where they clearly need to upgrade the interior of the offensive line. As they go into the draft, they'll take hopefully at least one offensive lineman, having a guy like Scott Peters who's going to be involved in the, the evaluating process. I don't know if it's going to be better,

Starting point is 00:16:49 but it is interesting in getting a new set of eyes, given his background and everything that he's looking for, I think is a good thing. It will be different. And when Dan Horde asked him about his evaluation experience, he really referred to his time in Cleveland. He didn't talk about his year in New England. He talked about when he was with Bill.

Starting point is 00:17:06 They were doing evaluation work. And obviously he also said that he did have an evaluation on Amarius Mins, who he'll now be working with, which would have been when he was in New England. but I don't know the answer here. You can't draft the guys that they drafted in New England. Those were seen as colossal reaches at the time. And even if they were fine for where they were picked,

Starting point is 00:17:29 that process won't fly in Cincinnati. And so we don't know what his evaluation track record is. We don't know if it'll be good or bad. We don't know if the New England experience will be what happens to Peters. And maybe that approach just doesn't work in the NFL. We don't know. but they also better have a better talent situation in Cincinnati, and I think they already do with the tackles.

Starting point is 00:17:51 And I think Ted Carris is more than a serviceable center. You better have a better talent situation for him in Cincinnati. And so that excuse won't exist. And so if it's as bad as it was in New England, you'll very quickly know that it was a terrible choice. But there are a lot of things about this hire that I think are interesting from a background perspective, from the skill set, that Scott Peters brings to the table that makes me optimistic.

Starting point is 00:18:17 And the last thing I wanted to talk about here, James, despite all the negative stuff that went on in New England, I was listening to Nate Tice briefly before we started recording this podcast on his football 301 Yahoo Sports podcast talking about some of the assistant hires. He likes to hire and mention specifically something that he, I think, would put to bed some of the concerns or at least mitigate some of the concerns about, oh, it's another Callahan guys. it's just a wide zone guy. And Nate said specifically that he thinks that the run game stuff that they're doing in New England

Starting point is 00:18:48 will match pretty well with the kind of run game stuff that will work in the Joe Burrow offense in Cincinnati, from a frequency of use perspective, from the kinds of runs that he saw from New England this year versus what you're getting with a potential Joe Burrow shotgun heavy offense, the way that we've seen this offense be run lately with Joe Burrow. So that's another piece of information just from an external perspective. Nate also did like the hire where perhaps the concern that it's another wide zone coach that doesn't fit in with Joe Burrow isn't necessarily going to be the case. But again, we won't know for some time now how this hire actually works out.

Starting point is 00:19:28 No, it's going to take time. But Zach doesn't make this higher if he doesn't think it'll fit. I promise you. And so we'll see if it fits. We'll see if it's right. obviously we've talked about the pressure that's on Zach Taylor the pressure that's on this team and organization they have a lot to get right this offseason third times a charm

Starting point is 00:19:47 on the offensive line coach right well I still think Frank was a success but uh people will dismiss that all you want but um like they gave him Jackson Carmen you know it's one of those things they got to the Super Bowl with with guy Deontay Smith and who was it Isaiah Prince started that Super Bowl you know it's it's one of those things where it's tough. But to your point, they need more success. It needs to be better than it ever was with Frank than it certainly was with Jim Turner, who was awful and almost got Zach Taylor fired. He was so awful. So we'll see. But we have a stadium to talk about. We will discuss the pay

Starting point is 00:20:24 court stadium lease and the latest between the Bengals and Hamilton County coming up next. Today's show is brought you by Fandle. Fandle is America's number one sports book. Fandle is the place you need to go for championship Sunday. Maybe you think Patrick Mahomes and the refs. I mean, Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs are going to get past the bills. Someone is going to get mad about that, Jake. Someone is going to get mad that I just made that. But regardless, maybe you think the Chiefs are going to advance to the Super Bowl and play New Orleans, and they're this well-oiled machine. No one can guard Travis Kelsey, which I still don't understand at this point, even though Travis is a bear cat, and obviously I'm a bear cat as well.

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Starting point is 00:21:37 bet. That's fandle.com. Make this playoff season unforgettable with fandle and fandle.com. There's been a lot of news around the paycourt lease extension in the last week or so, James. We have had plenty to talk about from a football perspective. So just catching up a little bit here. I think it was late last week. It was late last week because it was before I did a live stream on Friday night. There were emails leaked between Troy Blackburn and the county where they were. were very much not on the same page. And they're accusing each other of being in default of terms of the lease agreement between the county and the team for Paycor Stadium. The big contention from the Bengals, or one of the big contensions for the Bengals was around the hilltop concrete

Starting point is 00:22:28 plant that we and everyone who has visited the Cincinnati Bengals training camp practices in the summer has seen in the background or has seen on the riverfront right by where the Bengals practice has been, I think, talked about on the Pat McAfee show is infamous at this point for sure. Some progress made there. But it was very, very bad judging from emails before the season started in July last year. It seemed like judging from an email from the county side, things hit. improved talks had improved recently in January, though it still was a little bit prickly in communication, at least in email form. Some progress potentially this week with reports

Starting point is 00:23:17 that the hilltop concrete facility will finally be moving, and that's expected to be done by this summer. It's about time. It is about time. This summer, by the way. Jesus, Oh, Pete. Can you get out of there before camp? I, I, I think that's the goal. I think that's the goal, judging from, from the article that I read. Yeah, I, I, yeah, it needs to happen. It's, it's one of those things where, like, even if the Bengals weren't there, guess what? Something should be there that isn't a concrete plant. And so, yeah, that part would be nice. I think that's one. Two, it's nice to see that. that the Bengals and the county can still work together. I think this is going to get contentious and annoying, to be quite honest, with the political crap that goes on between both sides as they try to reach a long-term lease agreement with the stadium. And there are options built in.

Starting point is 00:24:14 Like everyone's going to say 2026, but there's two-year extensions or options, whatever you want to say, that will likely be activated if they need to or exercised. But it's, it would be nice to get it done. The other thing is, is I did think that, that's where the indoor facility would go. And maybe this is part of that posturing is like, oh, well, we'll just put this there. And okay, well, where does the indoor, because they should have a permanent indoor facility.

Starting point is 00:24:47 And maybe they're just going to keep it where it is. I think that's, I mean, it's fine, but it's a couple blocks away. Also fine, but you have the buses and stuff. people don't really see that. Most fans aren't down there watching that. So we'll see if that's the case. But regardless, the Hilltop part of it, as a Hamilton County resident, I'm excited about it. And it's nothing really against Hilltop. You just shouldn't be on the riverfront. It's ridiculous thing ever. I hadn't thought about the indoor. I thought the indoor would always go there.

Starting point is 00:25:22 Yeah. My initial thought is part of Hamilton County's complaint with the Bengals is that the Bengals did not provide their master plan for all the renovations they want to do on time. That was part of Hamilton County's complaint. That master plan would be required from their perspective to commit money, to go through a bidding process, and to show that there is a commitment to justify a certain term of lease extension. And you can go read all the emails. It's a lot of posturing.

Starting point is 00:25:57 It's a lot of, no, it's your fault. No, it's your fault. He mailed back and forth and obviously trying to maintain leverage on one another. The team thinks that Hamilton County isn't doing enough to maintain the stadium as the lease agreement requires. And certainly did not take care of the concrete plant on time. That was supposed to have been done no later than the first preseason game in 2020. And we're now talking about it getting done hopefully before training camp in 2025. there was a bunch of money involved with the acquisition of that land by the county where

Starting point is 00:26:36 the Bengals gave up money that they were owed, which apparently is about $30 million, and did this as a concession. So the music center, the Andrew J. Brady Music Center, the Banks could be built in exchange that this hilltop land was going to be acquired by the city. Parking was going to be provided there. now part of the plan, parking, tailgating, and potentially a practice facility. So we'll see what happens with the practice facility part of this, because they're talking about parking in green space in this article.

Starting point is 00:27:10 This is WCPO report written by Paula Christian. So we'll see what happens there, but it does seem like that is potentially some progress. And when you combine that with the county's response to Troy Blackburn in an email that was confused, like, oh, confused that you're still mad judging from how the call went yesterday, was like the first line of that email for those of you that have seen the leaked emails suggesting that there was a very productive conversation between the team and the county

Starting point is 00:27:36 and then Troy was still upset about something. It was the payment of some sort of surcharge from the Bengals to the city that he was making with hesitancy wrote Troy Blackburn, which surprised the county. Yeah, it's, look, the Bengals won that negotiation

Starting point is 00:27:56 in the 9th. 90s. The county is very aware of that with the stadium deal. They are. The residents are very aware of that. So this is, it's unique territory because county officials now are very, they're thinking about winning. And we've talked about this in free agency with the Bengals, right? It's like, ah, well, they try to win the negotiation. Like, it's going to be tough. And you're going to see sides. You're going to see fans that are like, get it done, county, hate the county. And then you're going to see people that say, I don't care about the stupid stadium. And that doesn't mean they're not Bengals fans, but they don't want to. And so we'll keep you updated on it.

Starting point is 00:28:32 I think there's certainly a chance that this gets worse before it gets better from a long-term lease extension standpoint in the negotiating that goes into that. And how quickly things can change, the email is a good example of that. But today, given this report, given the Hilltop thing, that is a positive to be very, very clear. And so the fact that they were able to work together to get that finalized, the Bengals helped facilitate that a bit with that $30 million. All right. Let's see if we can keep progressing and moving forward in the right direction. It was described by who was talking about this representing the county. It's described by, I have his last name looking for his first name, or her.

Starting point is 00:29:16 Denise Dre House or Dryhouse was, Drehaus was talking to, man, nobody knows how to pronounce that from, looking at it. Treehouse. In Cincinnati, they do. You're just in Canada. She told WCPO, essentially the Bengals are paying for the property and the county, the taxpayers will own it. It really created a win-win situation.

Starting point is 00:29:36 So described here by Hamilton County Commission President as a win-win. That's great. I mean, we like win-wins. And like you said, James, this could very well, and I think should be expected to remain contentious between the Bengals and the county. I do find it interesting how quickly this Hilltop thing came together after those emails leaked. And maybe that's coincidence. Maybe this was already well in progress and expected to happen in this timeline.

Starting point is 00:30:06 But that being a big point of contention in those leaked emails and then the Hilltop commitments being met with the concrete facility very shortly thereafter, interesting timing to say the least. Yeah, very, very interesting timing. It's probably not a coincidence, but maybe it is. You never know. Regardless, hopefully it moves in the right direction. It's one of those things that none of us can control, but we can certainly keep you covered, for sure. Yeah, it's not the most fun thing to talk about. That's for sure.

Starting point is 00:30:47 But I think there is motivation from both sides, from what you've read in the emails, to get something done, but they're going to fight about it. And that's what we'll have to watch as this lease conversation continues. We're also going to wait and watch for news on the Bengals defensive coordinator front. We'll get some reaction. Is that you? Is that you, Al? Whenever this comes together out there for you. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, Hootay.

Starting point is 00:31:18 And have a good one. I think Al is at the concrete plant. Thank you.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - New Bengals OL Coach Scott Peters' unique path to NFL coaching, plus potential progress with Paycor lease negotiations?

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