Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - REFINING THE BOARD | Identifying the best prospects for the Cincinnati Bengals in the 1st Round

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

The ideal candidates for the Cincinnati Bengals' first round pick are clear. Jake Liscow and Joe Goodberry discuss why certain guys should not be considered at 17, and why Kelvin Banks Jr, Walter Nolen, Derrick Harmon, Nick Emmanwori, and Malaki Starks are leading the charge. Plus, the guys discuss Mike Green and Jihaad Campbell, who would be on the list if they clear various questions.Join the Locked On Bengals Insider Community! https://joinsubtext.com/lockedonbengalsFind and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bengals-daily-podcast-on-the-cincinnati-bengals/id1159723162Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0lh0WmQl5fJVgtajsGoogle Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbG9ja2Vkb25iZW5nYWxz?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwio_sXtj8nuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAgStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-bengalsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Amazon Fire TV Stick 4kDid you know your Fire TV is also an Xbox? Turn any TV into your gaming and entertainment hub with Fire TV Stick 4K devices — no console required. Head to Amazon.com/firetvlockedon to get started. Xbox Game Pass Ultimate subscription and compatible controller required.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNBA for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNFL at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.FanDuelRight now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Every team has ideal draft targets in the first round. Let's talk about the five players the Cincinnati Bengals should draft when they're on the clock at 17. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake, let's go join today by Joe Gober. Bengals draft content creating Godfather and author of the sheet or leader of the sheet project. You can find his work on Twitter at Joe Goodberry and on the Bengals on the Brain YouTube show on the first star logistics YouTube channel.

Lockdown Bengals has been covering the Cincinnati Bengals says 2016 every day on the Lockdown podcast network, your team every day. We want to shout out the everydayers as we always do and invite you to. becoming every day or by hitting that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss an episode of Lockdown Bengals. And shout out to all of you who make Lockdown Bengals your first listen as well. Today, Joe, we dive through a number of candidates for the Cincinnati Bengals pick at number 17 or maybe they trade back. Maybe there are some trade back candidates that we will discuss as well and try to whittle

down the list and identify the ideal candidates for the Bengals in the first round. and we'll talk about as part of that process, identifying some players that we would like them to probably steer clear of in the first round. And this will tie into the introduction to the sheet on yesterday's show where we spent a lot of time on the offensive line and a little bit of time on some of the defensive positions we're expecting the Bengals to target. We're going to have more time to dive into some of those defensive players, especially in the first round. In today's show, we're going to have a couple more shows to dive into that in a little bit more. depth as well as I know there are different questions about different players and all those

things now that the sheet is out there and in the wild. But Joe, let's start with a list of players that could be considered for the Bengals at 17. Eliminating for the most part, guys, we don't expect to be available to the Bengals. We expect to be long gone, but there's a lot of guys that could be in contention. We got 16 players, 17 players, maybe on a list right now that we're going to try to talk through today. And that includes a lot of the guys. guys we talked about yesterday. Where do you think that that list starts? What are those 16, 17 guys?

Yeah, if we want to rattle them off real fast to just lay the groundwork and then we can maybe eliminate some and then build our, you know, I think there's five guys that we should really have our eye on. And maybe we can expand that depending on some of the questions that need to be solved with a few of these guys. But just running through it, guys like Mikel Williams and Shemar Stewart, right, defensive ends that are expected to go top 15. But if one's available, they're 17, well, the Bengals have interest.

Tyler Booker, the guard from Alabama, was considered a top 15 to 20 player throughout the process until the combine came. What are the Bengals going to feel about him? I think other guards, Gray's able, Donovan Jackson, need to be talked about. Are they good enough for 17 or are they a trade back option? And then what if guys that should go top 15 are still there like a Josh Simmons, Will Johnson, Colston Loveland, right? If they're there, how do the Bengals feel? Is that a clear BPA on the board? And then you have different type of questions you need to answer for Jihad Campbell for injuries.

Mike Green and James Pierce for character and background. And then you have probably what we think is the cream of the crop here of Malachi Starks, Nickyman, Worry, Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon, and Kelvin Banks. So let's list us start from. Is there anyone you want to eliminate right away because I think we are in agreement on a few of these guys here and we can talk about why? Or do you want to start with the guys we really want at the top? Yeah, we can probably knock some off. And the guys that we were going to talk about the reasons we would like to see the Bengals draft,

and I imagine those will be longer conversations. but I like the way you organize it. I have it organized very similarly. I have three clear-cut guys. I have the groupings a little bit differently than you. I have the three clear-cut guys at the top, and we'll get to those. And then I've got the safeties and Jahad Campbell in the same group. Although there are different questions for those guys,

I see them as prospects from an on-field perspective in a similar light as defensive playmakers, but defensive playmakers at on-paper lower-value positions, right? linebacker a little bit considered by every single person who watches the NFL and financially lower value positions than defensive front players and offensive linemen, et cetera. And then you got Green and Pierce in the group for, as you mentioned, off-field reasons that will be for teams to answer and largely information that will not be available to us on the outside. And then I've also got the potential fallers, the Will Johnson, Josh Simmons, Colson Loveland group, the guard group of Grays Abil Donovan Jackson. And then the guys to eliminate right away in a group. And I think that that is Michael Williams, Shemar Stewart, and Tyler Booker.

As far as we have talked about any of these guys throughout this process, it has been lip service to, yeah, they could take them. Maybe the Bengals would like them. They've been associated with Shamar Stewart by a ton of mock drafters. And a ton of people out there that think, yeah, the Bengals need pass rush juice. Samar Stewart has pass rush juice. except it's just not there from a production perspective. And it's not there consistently enough when you do watch him on tape.

And so, well, he has all these athletic tools and there are flashes. It's just not consistent enough for you to feel good about taking a player with that production profile in the first round. Similar story for Mike Hill Williams, who I think could be a good player in the NFL, could be a good run defender. Could be a Sam Hubbard plus. But are you taking that in the first round, given the other options, to answer, I think we agree on there is probably not. In Tyler Booker we talked about yesterday, it's mostly athleticism related issues there. If you tested like an above average athlete, you probably would feel pretty good about Tyler Booker in the first round.

He did not. And the pass protection and other PFF data also brings him down a little bit. So those are guys that our sheet tells us that we talked about yesterday. Here are reasons that you want to steer clear in the first round. And the tape as well, in my opinion. Like if you want to start with Tyler Booker, he does not look athletic on tape. So like we didn't expect him to test well. There are times where linebackers just shake him and go right around him on a blitz.

And I'm like, yeah, the lateral agility isn't there. Now he is a powerful blocker. He is 21 years old. And he does set a very nice firm pocket with great balance and an anchor. Those are things I would like. But he is in a bucket of players that tend to not pan out. If I can give a cop real fast, I think he's like an Osiris Torrance, who went in round two that kind of player?

He's been like a C to C plus level player for the bills. And I think that's probably what Tyler Booker is. And maybe he overachieves and gets above that. But that's not a risk I'm willing to take. For Shamar Stewart on tape as well, I did not give him a high grade on tape. I thought he actually, he stunk. I was pretty blunt on my evaluation for subscribers on Twitter where I said, you know, I don't think he understands what he's doing, where the ball is going, what's happening.

He misses a ton of tackles in the backfield because of it. He can't bend around the corner. He doesn't have any moves. He doesn't know how to pace his moves. time is moves, set up counters. I mean, the production is so low, it's not just because of a scheme or anything. It's because he does not know what he's doing yet.

And I don't think the Bengals have the luxury of making a pick. They need, if we're talking about as we trim this list, we need guys that are going to have a high ceiling, right? Hit all the boxes for a first round pick. But also, I want an immediate impact. And Schmar Stewart is a guy that's going to have to take a year or whatever the case. Maybe we can't have another Miles Murphy situation where we're going to year three and hoping we're going to see those flashes more consistent.

I like Michael Williams a little bit more than Schmar Stewart, but at the same time, I think his upside is maybe a Gregory Rousseau type player, and that's fine if I'm picking 20 to 28. I would not be one of these teams that are considering taking him top 12, and at 17, I am expecting better players to be on the board for the Bengals. I find Tyler Booker's average draft position in mock drafts to be fascinating as well. Shout out to Benj Robinson's grinding the moks,

where in March or so, he peaked around 20 in ADP in a lot of mocks. And since then, since kind of the combine, most likely he's been trending downward into the low 20s, mid to low 20s, still in the first round in most mocks, but certainly trending in the wrong direction. So those are guys that we can eliminate right off the bat. I think next, Joe, let's dive into the guys that we think are for sure in the guys. conversation, one of whom we talked about yesterday in a lot of depth in Kelvin Banks. We don't need to go in quite as much depth today.

We can point people to yesterday's podcast for that one, talk about them a little bit, a couple of defensive tackles. And then we can get to those safeties who I think we feel a little bit differently about the safety. He's not terribly differently. I think we're pretty close there. But we can dive into that conversation as well before we get to the rest of the candidates for that Cincinnati Bengals first round pick coming up next.

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What you see is what you pay. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with game time. Just get the game time. Create an account and use code locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Turns to play. Again, create an account and redeem code L-O-C-E-D-O-N-N-FL-N-FL-N-FL-N-FL-N-FL-N-FL-E-L-N-FL-E-L-N-FL-E-L-N-FL-E-L-N-FL-E-L-L-A-L-L-L-N-V-E-O-N-B. The other two that I think we agree on wholeheartedly at this point are Derek Harmon and Haman and Walter Nolan. And maybe those are in different orders. maybe it's Walter Nolan, then Derek Harmon.

I think it is for you in that order. I know others out there see that in a different order. But talk about those to you guys a little bit and why for us, they fit the bill for the Bengals as a first round pick at 17 and to be that DT1 that this team needs on the interior. Yeah, and if I were to rank them, there's a reason why we potentially, I think you agree maybe Kelvin Banks would be the top target,

but these guys are right next to them and right behind them, in my opinion. And I think Banks is a clean and clear and young and check every box prospect. But so is Walter Nolan and a little bit more than Harmon that he checks every box for Nolan. Nolan, to me, is a power three tech. And you don't get those guys too often. Normally when we're here talking, hey, I really like Collagia Cancy. I really like Johnny Newton. They always lack that power aspect, right?

They don't have that yet. We're like, yeah, they'll develop it. Don't worry. We're going into year three of Collagicancy, and he's getting six and a half sacks. and he's a pass rusher, but he doesn't have that power element. He's not good against the run. Hey, Walter Nolan is good against the run and scores high against the run. And if you look at the sheet, it says he's one of the better run defenders in this draft.

That's good. That gets him on the field right away. The Bengals want to get better against the run. That gets him on the field. Oh, and now he's your most athletic interior guy with upside as a pass rusher. That sounds great. And the Bengals had a combine meeting with him. They had a 30 visit with him.

That's a great indication that they have very serious interest in, drafting Walter Nolan at 17. Now, I think Derek Harmon is right there or right behind them. However you want to stack them does not bother me. If Nolan's gone or if they choose Harmon over Nolan, I don't have a problem with that at all. I just want to be clear on that. Harmon, to me, is an extremely disruptive, chaos-creating defensive tackle with the size of a nose tackle. There were times he was 3.30. And he came down. He's 313 at the combine. That weight may fluctuate a little bit there and maybe something we have to answer. but he's lined up all way from five tech to zero,

and he dominates in and out. And he can shoot gaps, he can two gap. And there's even times, I think he's a very prideful run defender, very sturdy run defender. I look at the Penn State game, where they try to double him. At the end of the year,

now everyone knows who Derek Harmon is, and Penn State's like, we're going to double him and make sure we take him out of the game. He sits in anchors and holds those double teams and shed these guys, and I'm like, man, he's not just a guy that's going to shoot gaps. He's not just a penetrator, which he is great at if he could tackle. And it's such a big thing to talk about.

He would break the scale for production. I think he is in the backfield more than any defensive tackle in this class, probably up there next to Abdul Carter, getting in the backfield, causing chaos, and being a pain in the butt for offenses. So those three guys, because we talked about banks already, Kelvin Banks out of Texas, those two, I see high upside. I see immediate impact. And I see potential for advancing this roster and this talent this year, not just in the future the next five years.

I think this year, all three make an impact and make you better. What's so fascinating about not just the two defensive tackles against each other, but also the Kelvin Harmon aspect of things is where do you think you can get a player that can make a difference for you later? Say you think Tate Ratledge can be a really good guard in the NFL. You can get him, say, in the second round. And I know the simulators would have you believe third round. Or name your favorite second or third round tackle to guard prospect. How does that change your calculus as you're trying to stack the board? If you have your pick of the litter of all three guys and maybe Kelvin Banks is the cleanest prospect,

but you feel like there's a cliff at defensive tackle and there's less of a cliff. And certainly you're taking a step down in terms of. terms of quality of prospect, but you can still get solid or better starting level guards in the second round of this draft where you feel like you can with some of those tackles. I think that becomes very interesting. The other thing that's really interesting about this is when you just put the tackles against each other. Which are those things do you think you can coach up?

Do you think you can help Derek Harmon find the club he's missing in his bag that will help him finish more plays in the backfield? or do you think you can find whatever is missing from Nolan's game in terms of maybe adding a bull rush to his game? And sustaining bull rush is a little bit better. You'll see him jolt guys with the initial punch consistently and make plays doing that. Don't get me wrong. But you don't see him often sustain that and drive guys backward off of that initial punch. Can you add to that toolkit, that pass rushing toolkit for Walter Nolan?

and which of those things do you think is more coachable? Which of those things do you think you can quote unquote fix? Do you like just the 20-pound heavier naturally frame on Derek Carmen? Then the positional versatility there. Those are the kinds of questions when you're picking nets and trying to stack between those two guys that I think NFL teams have to answer. And in addition to that, you have to consider the lines these guys played on in college and the style of those lines.

And Ole Miss in particular, the consistent slanting, that you see from that Ole Miss defensive front is a confounding factor, I think, in evaluations. And then Oregon and Ole Miss both suffer from this. And it's a great problem to have is that there's just a wealth of NFL-level talent on both of those defensive lines that you're trying to parse through

when you're trying to isolate these two players and the role that they will play for your team in the NFL. And if we can throw another minor red flag on there, and it's something we red flag every year, but it's becoming more common in the first round, Neither fully tested enough to get a relative athletic score, right? A metric we use had they of and been elite athletes that they appear to be at most of the time,

they probably would be considered top 12 prospects. It could have helped them both, I think, a lot to finish that and finish their testing and look really good. And that's the other part, too, is I think I scored Walter Nolan 82, and I scored Derek Harmon in 81, I believe. One point different. but I'm scoring Walter Nolan's flashes. His high-end flashes versus the run. I think he has great vision for the ball carrier against the run.

He's a great tackler at defensive tackle. But his flashes are of athleticism, a power of jolting guys back. Like, that's a rare combo. I want that. That's why I gave him a little bit of edge. But in terms of consistency and consistently making him plays and trying to watch other guys where at Shemari Caldwell

or Jeffrey Bassa, other guys on Oregon, and I go, who is that? of course it's Derek Harmon. He's consistently flashing and stealing my attention, robbing my attention from other players. That tends to be the guys I gravitate to also. That's why it's very hard for me to split them. I think they're both worthy.

I'd be happy with either pick. It's one of those things where like, well, can you talk yourself into Derek Harmon learning to tackle? Right. Probably not. What if they are just who they are? That's what it normally is, right? That's how you should be doing things.

But if you could talk yourself into Derek Harmon and learning how to tackle, then you suddenly can put like an 80s. 84 on Derek Harmer, maybe even higher with the way that he can get into the backfield and the variety of positions and alignments he can take on the defensive line and just having better size and still looking like a pretty good athlete when he's moving around out there at that bigger size. Because we did get to see him go through a lot of the position drills. Right? Am I confusing as somebody else? We had a scream and we were talking about it. Is he tighten the hips? Is he tighten the ankles?

Is he running the hoop drill? We're trying to really be critical of it because he didn't do his three cone. stuff. So we were we were unsure. And plus the mistackles often is a sign of a guy who can't bend and can't break down in space and make a tackle. One other point if we can on these two, on Walter Nolan, a five-star recruit. He was number two behind Travis Hunter in that draft class. I mean, we're talking about super high pedigree. If the Bengals are interested and it looks like they are, that is other, that is one other notch in the belt to maybe push them towards Walter Nolan. I know there have been some character flags thrown around for Walter Nolan as well. You go read

the beast right up on why Nolan went through all those transfers. He does note that it something that teams will have to be comfortable with and they'll have to talk through those things with the prospect and potentially why or one of the reasons that Nolan was in Cincinnati for that in-person visit. But the explanation of all of those transfers, the way Dane wrote it, the way that I've seen this story told elsewhere, maybe it wasn't just Dane. Maybe there's somebody else that I'm forgetting now who also wrote this up. But every transfer seemed to make sense. It was Jeremy Fowler. You're right. It was Jeremy Fowler. Every transfer seemed to make sense when I looked at it from that perspective. So a couple of very clear cut guys there.

I think there is another tier of guys that are relatively clear cut. And I think some of these fallers that we're talking about, the Will Johnson's, Josh Simmons, Colson Loveland bucket is even if they fall are those guys that the Bengals would pick. I think those are interesting questions. We'll see how much of this we can tackle here as we're into the third segment to finish up the show coming up next. The Bengals are looking for their best fits in the NFL draft and LinkedIn knows that as a small business owner, you're looking for the best fits for your small business. Your business is always on your mind, which means when it's time to hire, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do, and that's where

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That's LinkedIn.com slash locked on NFL to post your job for free terms of conditions apply. Joe, we've got some ground to cover here and a number of prospects to discuss. Let's start with the safeties. Those are guys that I know you feel pretty strongly about that should be in the conversation with Derek Harmon, Walter Nolan, Kelvin Banks, Jr. As guys that would make a whole lot of sense for pick 17. Yeah, and I'm going to try and be quicker and not go in as much detail. But these guys are a big conversation.

And maybe we'll have that more when we do a mock draft later this week and we can discuss them when they're on there. but I think they're misunderstood a little bit. So we have Malachi Stark, I'll start with him, because he was considered a top 12 to 15, potentially maybe top 10 guy. If he would have finished his third season, the way he played his first two at Georgia,

his first two were amazing. It's part of the, it's not just combined testing that has knocked him down or cooled off the NFL a little bit. It's that he just didn't take that next step. So teams, we see this every year. Like, oh, this guy's a top 10 pick next year. Yeah, but the caveat always is if he takes another step.

Stark's didn't. And in fact, Georgia started using him a little bit differently and started making him the star of that defense and started making him, hey, we need you to cover this guy, whether it's on the boundary, whether it's in the slot, more strong safety stuff, not just using his really great range as a free safety. And because of it, he got attacked a little bit and got exposed. And maybe he's not that great of a man-to-man cover guy. I think he is. I think he's a good one. But he got exposed a little bit. They say character-wise, he's great.

Leadership-wise, he's great. That range, amazing, right? He's similar size to Jesse Bates, probably something. similar guy, if you're looking to finally replace Jesse Bates, it was never a Daxil that never played free safety. It's a Malachi Stark that did. And Starks also is going to give you great run defense and great tackling. He missed some tackles too. You're going to find that, but I think he's a willing and really great tackler. Like his angles and the way he approaches it, the way he runs down to hit these guys from the free safety spot, it's really, really good. Plus, his ball skills.

So you got range in ball skills. You'll see some of the greatest interceptions from a safety you have seen, whether that's the late one versus, what was that, Clemson or Texas, was Orange and White team killing me. But it was late down the right sideline, and I think it was Texas. And then the one from Oregon, when he first came on the scene, I think it was two years ago, down the left side, very similar. Jump, contorting your body, over your head, reaching behind you. It's A plus stuff.

And I think he can be that guy. I think the Bengals will still like him. I always remind myself at this time, go back to January and look at the rankings. The Bengals are probably closer to that. And I think Malachi Starz is still pretty high. they're bored and worth this conversation. Yeah, Malachi Stark's and Nickham and Worry, both guys trending in opposite directions. If you look at the average draft position in mock drafts, that's the grinding the mocks.

I'll shout that out again. Benj Robinson does great work tracking mock drafts around the internet from mostly pros, but also weighing in some of the fan mocks as well in the process and getting wisdom of the masses kind of data. And Nickham and Worry have been trending up, up, up opposite for Malachi Stark. to the point where they're both right in the same territory at this point. Nick and Wynne Warreya, 21st overall in the stack. 23 is his average draft position, which ranks him 21st.

Malachi starts right there at 24, which is 25th in terms of the ranking. And I know that's a little bit confusing, but those guys, neck and neck. Yeah, just normal math stuff, as we often have problems with here when Joe and I try to talk about math on the fly. but a couple of strong, not by position, but strong as in prospect profiles, guys there, what about Nick and Worry, Joe? A lot of time there are Malachi Starks

and a player that before the end of the season was seen, like he said, as a top 15 player. And then since then, everything that the way he finished the season, the way testing went for him, have seen the fall off there. Nick and Worry, on the other hand, goes out and tests, great, great straight line speed, great jumps and then all of a sudden it's seen as the best safety in the class by many.

Yeah. And for me, I was like a lot of people, he has this great combine performance. The agility is aren't there. So we always got to knock that and be aware of that. Right. So great straight line athlete. That's 6-3-220. Oh, and he's 20 years old on tape.

Well, okay, now, let me go look at this guy. Let me watch. And I'm expecting people who said Cam Chancellor. I'm like, oh, you get a Cam Chancellor, Enforcer 220 safety that can maybe play linebacker. Or let's see it. No, that's not what he is. He said he patterned his game after Tyron Matthew, and you can see it. I think he's more of a slot box corner cover guy, overhang defender, very similar to Kyle Hamilton for the Ravens.

His man coverage grade puts him in the 90th percentile amongst all safeties from PFF, according to our data. And you see it. And you see him jump routes and you see him flip his hips and run. I'm like, whoa, you should have done your utilities. There's some of that in you. They call him Nick the Eraser at South Carolina. They say his IQ is off the charts. He's the guy they went to and leaned on for adjustments and calls.

And then you see him be a post safety at times and you see him do it. It's only a few snaps per game. He plays a lot of strong safety. The majority, I think only 30% of his career snaps were in the box or at free safety. I'm sorry. So he is in the box a ton because that's because he's covering the slot, covering tight ends, covering one-on-one. I will say he's a bit, for all the versatility I like in the size and the

athleticism, he's a bit hesitant at times. And it's why I knocked his score two points lower than where I have Malachi Starkes as an 82. I have Immuroy's on tape. I really like Immunori, though. I think he can be a guy that, hey, for the next five years on this defense, who is the face of this defense? Who's the fast guy on this defense?

Who's the guy that's a difference maker? They don't have one. Surprise, right? This is the situation they're in. I think he Menwry can be that guy. Now, maybe that means I need to keep Gino Stone for a full year and figure out who the free safety is in some of these situations as he develops. And maybe he can do more of that.

But I think he's worthy of the pick. he scores super high on the sheet for us. I think he's worth it if we're in a situation where those top three guys, maybe they've got questions on Walter Nolan, maybe they're not as high on Harmon as we think they should be. And they're like, we like the safeties. I think there's a small shot there for Eamon Worry. My favorite thing about Eamon Wari is that he's essentially a linebacker built,

but he has the ability not just athletically, but on tape to do all the things that you need him to do as a safety or to bring him down and let him deal with some of the better tight ends in the NFL. If you need him to deal with some of the better tight ends in the NFL that have been so integral to so many playoff runs and Super Bowl teams in recent history and seeming to be a more important part increasingly of what your defense needs to do. And if you can also do that at 220 and we're talking about Smalmond Dun Jr., a linebacker we mentioned yesterday, 224, or Nicholas Martin, a common, you know, six-round target

for the Bengals and mock drafts because they had that 30 visit with him, 221. These are guys that are similarly sized to Emin Worry, but Emin Worry is doing this with that crazy, bursty, straight line athleticism and explosive athleticism. And if you can mold that guy into a leader of your defense type of player, and it sounds like he has that baseline to him, you can see where there's a very clear argument for Nickham and Worry to be your first round, and the production data is great there for in memory and for Starks.

The PFF data is good there as well. And the issue that you have with safety that you don't have as much with defensive tackle or with Kelvin Banks, but to some degree, I guess, with Kelvin Banks, if you're expecting them to be a guard, is positional value. And there aren't a ton of safeties in this class. There are several safeties that you would expect the Bengals to like, I think, Kevin Winston is one. I think Xavier Watts is one.

And we talked about why the sheet is a little bit lower on Xavier Watts yesterday. But do they feel like they can get one of those guys a little bit later? How pressing do they feel that need is? I think these guys are definitely in the conversation because they're just clean prospects, right? I think that's why they're in that group. But I think positional value there is an interesting factor when you pit those. guys against each other like if again if you have your your pick of the litter you can pick from all five of those guys that we've talked about positively so far are you are

you landing on one of the safeties ahead of one of the defensive tackles even though you might think that emin warre grades out higher it's a difficult argument to talk yourself into I think a couple of guys that we need to talk to here Joe or talk about I think Mike Green is one that we specifically need to talk about before we get out of here today I think James Pierce to some degree fits into a similar bucket of edge rushers with awesome productivity who are both a little bit undersized, who can be game-changing pass rushers for you and both have off-field questions. Again, those are things that the teams will have to answer more than we can.

And then I think, I don't know if you have time for the other groups here, because I don't think that they're quite as relevant, but let's talk about these two guys and see where we're at. Okay, if we want to start with Mike Green and James Pierce, if they're on the board. This is basically where you get to the subboard conversation. We'll do this on Monday, right? We will talk about it with a group of guys. We'll make our board. And if you're telling me they're on the board, the main board, well, then I can slot them in more accurately. But if they're on a subboard, it's hard for me to really know. I like, I expect them to take all these other guys before Green and Pierce, unless they just say, hey, green, we checked his background. We liked them. He was a team captain at Marshall. Let's go with it.

If that's the case, Green is in the conversation with those guys for me. He is with them. Pierce, maybe a little bit lower, even though his sheet says he's really good. I worry about the power. I worry about the base down running. I worry about his consistency at times. He wasn't. I said this when I first watched him early in the process before I knew there was even character stuff. He doesn't always run with the hottest motor the way Mike Green does.

Mike Green will run through people and defend the run like a madman. And I like that aspect, especially if you're undersized. That's how you get Nolan Smith to be a good player. James Pierce will do that when he's on the backside of runs. He'll chase stuff down on the backside like a demon. but less so on the front side, yeah. Yeah, his point of attack is a little bit different there. So it's like, how do you want them to do?

And that's kind of how they use Frey Hendrickson. So it would be more of a replacement of Hendrickson on that side, then a Sam Hubbard point of the attack, set the edge, force him back inside type the end. So is he just a third down pass rusher at this point? He may be. So I think any subboard conversation and Jahad Campbell goes in there as well because we don't know his injury situation.

Otherwise, Campbell could be the patient. of your defense for five years plus. So I mean, like, I'm in on Campbell if he's healthy. If you give him a clean bill of health and we've been down that road before with other guys like John Ross and maybe Ross's was more extensive. But still, there may be three things here that there's rumblings which I had Campbell. And if it is and if it's true, then we got to pass because again, positional value does play a factor in linebackers, even in a bad class is tough to take one at 17.

Yeah, the difference with Campbell versus the safety is it's like it's Campbell and gap. Campbell and Cliff. There's a couple other guys of safety that maybe you could get in the second round if you felt like that was really important to your defense. But again, and I get it for Jahad Campbell. I do. I'm more sympathetic to Jahad Campbell in the first round than I think I am for the safeties, even though they are really fun prospects who can also be, what do we call them? Force multipliers for your defense.

Jahad Campbell could be that. I just still have a hard time going that way instead of one of the defensive tackles. because of the way the class stacks up and positional value. It always comes back to that. But if you had a clean bill of health for Jahad Campbell, where would he slot in, like roughly compared to the defensive titles? He goes top 12 in this class. I don't think we even get a chance, right, if he's healthy.

Because he's one of the youngest. He's one of the youngest players. I'm talking a guy who looks extremely smart on tape. Like you can't always tell what you can tell with him because he's pointing out motions before they happen. He's pointing out pullers before they pull, like before the snaps even going. He's telling his D-end, hey, the guard's going to come pull and get you. They're going to leave you on blocks, so make sure you're aware of this.

And it's like, I want that. I want this guy that could be, if someone asked me for a comp today, he's Rokwon Smith to me. Like, I want that. Rokwant Smith and his prime was fantastic, a top three linebacker in the league that could change. He got the Ravens defense back where they needed to be. And that's what you got John Campbell feels like to me. And you know what I think about as I think about that as we wrap this up. Someone also asked us today, where would Chris Jenkins slot, right?

So if we're like, if we're ranking the defensive tackles, this year compared to last year's grade, Chris Jenkins would be seventh on this class for defensive tackle. So if you don't get one, 17 and 49, they may just bank on Chris Jenkins. So I think that affects how you may want to do it. Maybe you take that detackle in round one to clear it up. we got our DT number one. We don't have to worry about it. All these other guys can still help the team.

We can have five active on the, you know, half the season if you want to at defensive tackle. And then we figure out the other positions. And I think that's the way I'm leaning with a week to go. And I think we're under the impression that the Bengals would really like, or wouldn't really like Nolan. But I wonder if that plays into Harmon a little bit with his ability to be a little bit more versatile. Like he could take some snaps at the nose.

You wouldn't feel terrible about that with his size. If you needed to put him, out over a tackle and let him be Chris Jones a little bit and see if he has that in him. You could let him do that a little bit at times and see how that works out because he does have that ability to just win immediately the way those guys. They did it with BJ Hill. You don't think they do it with Walter Nolan and Derek Harmon to kick him out at end? I think they...

Well, I guess my point is, do they see one of those guys as being better equipped to do that sort of thing than the other? And I wonder there's a lean there one way or another. the guys we didn't get to talk about as much as we had hoped are will johnson josh simmons colston loveland as potential high-end players that could fall gray zabel and donovan jackson is a couple of guard slash tackle-ish guys that could go in the back half of the first round i would categorize zabel and jackson quickly as tradeback ideas and are any of johnson simmons and loveland on your board with those other guys we talked about because i think where we landed is harmon

Nolan Banks, Starks, and then worry, and then if Campbell, clean health, if green, clear character, those guys in the conversation as well. We're just not sure about those questions. Anybody else that we need to throw into the, these are guys that we're happy to see the Bengals take at 17. I am interested in Johnson, Simmons, and Loveland, right? There can be cases to be made for them. Is Will Johnson a great fit? I'm not sure, actually, for a man defense. And the Bengals are typically like speed at that position.

So I'd probably rank him lower than Simmons and Loveland. Now, Simmons is also, there's been some rumblings of character. And, you know, is he the type of guy that I could play at guard? I don't know. There's some question, some whole line evaluators I listen to have said, oh, he's good. That doesn't matter. He'll play guard. There's no issue there.

And then there's something to say he doesn't look and play like a guard would the way you feel about Kevin Banks or other guys that would kick inside. So maybe that makes that more difficult for the Bengals. And then he's got the Patel attend a knee issue, right? So when is he going to be ready? Can you afford to make that pick if you're Cincinnati? So the one I'd probably rank above them, and maybe the Bengals would too, it sounds like, I think Daniel Jeremiah had this tweet the other night that every team has Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland in their top 10. That clean-up prospects, young player with great size, who's getting block in line, looks like a great receiver, runs good routes.

You know, he's going to be a better NFL player than he was in college. I think Colston Loveland would be high for them, but would the Bengals actually draft him? They have bypassed tight end how many times? I do think you can get better at tight end with drafting Loveland because remember, Drew Sample played the most snaps as tight on one last year. You can upgrade that. You can make it 11 on 11 instead of 10 versus 11. The way they go out there with Sample sometimes.

Not to be too rude to Drew Sample, but it is true. I'd like 11 players on offense. That would be fun. Loveland is good. I just put them behind the others. It's hard to make that argument when we've seen them bypassed so many times, when we've seen them take the approach to free agency that they've taken. Like, again, if you had all those guys available to you,

it's hard to talk yourself into Colston Loveland ahead of any of those guys. If you get into positions where you've traded back and all those guys are gone, then maybe it's a little bit different where you can be happy to have Colston Loveland on your team. That would feel a lot like Tyler Eifert, except the team isn't in the same place

that it was when they picked Tyler Eiffert but nearly a decade ago now. More than a decade ago now? Man, time flies. Speaking of time flying, that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals, Until next time, thanks for listening, Ho-Day, and have a good one.