Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - The Bengals Will Try to Upgrade Roster Without "Big Swings"

Starting point is 00:00:00 There's been some talk about big swings for the Cincinnati Bengals this off season, like trading for Max Crosby or maybe even trading up in the NFL draft. It doesn't necessarily sound like that's in the Bengals plans. Let's break down what Duke Tobin had to say about big swings in today's episode. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans? Welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:35 of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day, the number one sports podcast network in the land. He's James Rapine. I'm Jake Lisco. And today we dive into more from Duke Tobin off podium this time at the 2026 NFL Combine in Indianapolis, where we got a little bit more insight into what the Bengals plans are and are not for this off season, what changes may or may not be coming in the way the Bengals approach doing business.

Starting point is 00:01:06 We're also going to hit on a couple of quick player notes as a couple of guys that the Bengals may or may not be interested with that 10th overall pick have little bits of news coming out around their presence in Indianapolis, those guys being Ruben Bain and Peter Woods. We'll finish the show with those quick notes later on. But we're going to start with the idea of taking a big swing. And everydayers have probably heard us talk about this a little bit. They've probably heard my skepticism a little bit. The Bengals typically don't take big swings, especially on external guys, as a standard operating procedure.

Starting point is 00:01:42 It's the way they typically do business. That generally isn't their approach. They have gone big in free agency for guys like DJ Reader and Trey Hendrickson. Obviously, they traded for Joe Flacco, but they tend to operate more in the middle class of veteran contracts and free agency. They tend not to trade up in the NFL draft, Cam Taylor Britt, and exception. to that rule, but very much an exception and not the rule. And so when Duke Tobin was asked about this off podium by the local Cincinnati media in an audio session that you can find over on the Cincinnati Bengals Talk channel, James posted

Starting point is 00:02:19 that. It didn't sound like Duke was too eager to dive into those waters. Sounded more risk-averse than anything to me, James. Yeah, it's not shocking, right? not shocking that Duke is like, well, if you make one of those big swings, it's going to take a lot of resources, which you use the word resources

Starting point is 00:02:39 a lot on Tuesday. And whether it's in the draft trading up, giving up a second or a third, and I'm using his words, which are valuable picks, or it's making a trade where you're potentially giving up the 10th pick. There aren't

Starting point is 00:02:55 many scenarios I could see where the Bengals would realistically consider giving up the 10th pick. And that may include, a Max Crosby. I think that the Bengals know that the Raiders would be so reluctant to give up Max that they're just like, oh yeah, we'll see.

Starting point is 00:03:12 They haven't even really thought about it because they don't even think he's available. I guess is how I should put it. And so we talk about it for sure. And Max may be a bit unhappy, but the Bengals know how this works. If you have an unhappy star, but you want to keep them,

Starting point is 00:03:28 you can find a way to turn that around. And if I'm the Raiders, I would say, hey, Max, we're building for something here. And we could be pretty good pretty soon. And I would point to the Trey Hendricksons of the world. Think about what Trey did after he signed with Cincinnati and how things quickly changed. Things change quickly when you have the number one overall pick. But this isn't locked on Raiders. It's locked on Bengals.

Starting point is 00:03:52 And there is one big swing that I think would be worth it. But I think the Bengals would seriously consider. And it's that guy Simmons in Tennessee. you can get get your hands on a guy like that i i think it's it's different but guess what they know he's not available either and and so uh regardless of of how you want them to approach it from a trade standpoint all of them are unrealistic they just they clearly are we talked about the the tag and trade tray thing like clearly it's unrealistic clearly they view it is unrealistic and so big swings to me are going to have to mean John Franklin Myers and Brian Cook and whoever on edge.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Like that's what their big swings could be if they're big. And another thing he said that I think that was important during that session. And I tweeted it out. I sent it. I tried to send it everywhere because I think it's important for Duke to be out there to the people in this light because he talked for 36 minutes in an audio-only session. And I thought a lot of it was good stuff. But it's important to note that he was like, yeah, it will take a lot of resources to add.

Starting point is 00:05:08 But if we use those resources, if we're spending big money on a free agent or giving one of these free agents a really good contract, we expect them to make a huge impact right away. And so whoever they do pay, if they pay significant dollars for any free agent, and that's their big swing, they're expecting that guy to come in and be a force multiplier, which I think has already been. been another theme of the 2026 combine. Yeah, that sounds like it's a bit of a buzzword, this force multiplier idea, something that we'll talk about, I'm sure, when we get to Al Golden's comments and what he said it a bunch to say on Wednesday, Dan Pitcher also with a very interesting tidbit about getting under center that we're going to dive into more, not as much to do with anything to say about big swings,

Starting point is 00:05:53 but just, you know, teasing some content that is coming here in the near future on lockdown Bengals, the force multiplier. their theme, certainly pervasive throughout the organization, though. And they have done that. They did it when they put together the defense that went to the Super Bowl. They went to the AFC championship game. That's largely built on the success of free agent signings that came in and were forced multipliers.

Starting point is 00:06:17 And D.J. Reader, Trey Hendrickson, obviously examples of that. They think very highly of what Bon Bell was able to do for the defense, Chidobie of Woosier, solidifying the secondary, and even Eli Apple being a piece for them there that made plays in the playoffs and isn't a world beater by any means but as a player they got serious run out of and I don't think that's what we're talking about here I think we're talking about a cut above there they're looking for guys to come in and be in that middle class of starters in the NFL maybe a little bit higher that's what john franklin Myers would be if they if that's their big fish to their hunting this off season that would represent probably the most

Starting point is 00:06:55 significant upgrade to a value position, right? Because off ball linebacker, they can get better. Safety, they can get better. They did get better statistically on defense in the second half of the season. Some of that's a quality of their opponent, but they got better statistically on defense, despite still not really having a pass rush, not having the guys in the trenches that were doing it. So that obviously sounds like a huge point of emphasis for this team, but it won't be a tag

Starting point is 00:07:24 and trade of Trey Hendrickson and a pick for Max Crosby. Like that sounds like it's not something that is in the Bengals plans. I think surprising no one, right, we've talked about it because it's something that I think a lot of teams would or should consider and explore. That doesn't sound like the Bengals approach. Bengals are going to approach this thing the way they have approached this thing in years past, which means it comes down to the idea of whether or not they execute that plan, right? how they pivot when plan A is blown up

Starting point is 00:07:56 and they need to go to plan B and on down the number of plans because they have in the past signed really good for the agents that made a big deal for this team. They made a big impact for this team. And if they're going to continue to take that approach, you just got to get it right, right? Like if you're not going to trade up,

Starting point is 00:08:13 well, that pick you hold on to in the fourth round better turn into a contributor at least, right? And not just a player that you're cutting after a year or two. they've done with a couple of third round picks lately. And so that's the pressure that comes along with this conservative approach of not making the move for more known quantities is, well, now you have to, with the resources you do still spend, you've got to get those right. For sure.

Starting point is 00:08:39 They have to. And that's, it's really hard when you pigeonhole yourself into a position in the draft to then be right. And they've done that too much. And that's where, like, to me, me a big swing can be, hey, we added these three guys. And now we, we feel like our defense is just much more complete. It doesn't have to be one guy. I'm not sure there's one guy. In fact, actually, I know there's not one guy in free agency that's going to fix their defense. They're not one guy

Starting point is 00:09:09 away from this defense being a top 12 or 15 unit. It's far more than that. And if you get it right there, then you can give yourself a realistic chance to hit on mid-round picks, early round picks, 10th pick, all the picks. And so we'll continue this conversation about big swings because, look, it's a big off season. And you could score runs in a bunch of different ways to continue the baseball analogy. It doesn't just have to be the home run ball. Home runs are fun.

Starting point is 00:09:37 But maybe one of these free agents they add does turn into a home run, but we'll continue the conversation about big swings coming up next. Today's show was brought to by Indeed. Indeed sponsor jobs. Well, it's something, honestly, that the Bengals. should use right now. Defense needed. Defense wanted. And if you're looking to fill a role on your team, in your business, in your company, well, Indeed, Sponsor Jobs is going to help you do just that. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed,

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Starting point is 00:10:42 That's Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Show support by saying Lockdown Bengals sent you Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for IndeedSponsored job. We're also brought to you today by Home Chef. As the New Year gets going, a lot of people trying to simplify routines, trying to streamline things at home the way Duke Tobin has tried to streamline scouting with a couple of additions to the Bengals personnel department. Dinner, big thing that you can streamline.

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Starting point is 00:12:03 Let's continue the big swing conversation. And I think the way they view it, like, it's not a singular swing. It would be like the offseason swing where they look at it in June or July or maybe it's just right after the draft in early May. And they're like, see, we've added a starting safety alongside Jordan Battle. We've drafted this guy. Maybe you're hoping it's Peter, or Peter, Woods or Rubid Bain or whoever you think it is. And we've done these things where we've filled

Starting point is 00:12:31 these needs, but we've also added young talent that we think can help us. Like, I think that's how they're they're viewing it and not a, well, is Jeffrey Simmons going to be available? Like, I just, of course, if he was available, like if Jeffrey Simmons hit the wire today, or not the wire, but the trade block today, I think the Bengals would have a real conversation about it, just to be clear. Max Crosby, probably the same thing. to be quite frank with you i know he has plenty of fans in the building but i i don't think that they're banking on one of these stars and i think that's part of it with duke too is he's like let's operate in reality here and this is how we got to think to get our team better even if talking

Starting point is 00:13:13 about max or geoffrey or one of these guys is more fun it's also just not really been their approach there have been a couple of times like i remember the warren sap back and forth before Warren and staff did not end up signing with the Bengals. There have been a couple times where they've kind of swum in those waters with the top tier big name guys. But it's not like as something that they've done regularly. This isn't the way that they typically do business. And I think we're going to see the Bengals continue to do business for the most part the way they typically do business.

Starting point is 00:13:45 Now, he was also asked Duke Tobin was about Joe Burrow restructuring. And I said yesterday when we were talking about this, one sign that the Bengals could be changing how much money they spend would be if you do see a restructure of Joe Burrow happen sometime in the next three or four weeks, probably three weeks or two weeks going into the beginning of free agency, that would probably be a sign that they have specific plans to spend that cap and extra cash. And that would be a sign that they're doing things a little bit differently. When we start to see contract structures late two weeks from now when free agency opens and we start to see the details of the contracts that the Bengals are doing,

Starting point is 00:14:24 we'll have an idea as to whether or not they've gone back to kind of their 2021 structures that lowered the cap hits in that first year a little bit more. Or if they do more like what they did with Jamar Jason T. Higgins last year, where they didn't really lower those cap hits at all effectively. And they as a result kind of inflated their cap last year and didn't go the extra mile with spending extra cash for, I don't know, a starting line back. or a pass rushing piece that can step into the rotation. I know they signed T.J. Slayton that wasn't really for that purpose.

Starting point is 00:14:59 So those are the things that I'm still curious about whether they do differently or not, because it didn't sound like Tobin was closed off from the idea. He didn't shut down the restructure question by any means the way I think he might sometimes shut down things when folks ask about cap management ideas. And so that part will see. I do think that despite them positioning themselves and talking about it, like we're not going to take a big swing. So whether it's Jeff Simmons or or Max Crosby or one of our lockdown Bengals insiders

Starting point is 00:15:32 to join subtext.com slash lockdown bengals, send us a message about Dexter Lawrence. Like I don't think it's those guys. But I do think that they're very much in the market for one, leadership, talking about themes, force multipliers, the theme, leadership, I think, a theme that we've heard about this week. the combine so far and two starting level players probably as we've talked about all offseason james at all three levels of this defense yeah i think there's certainly and al gold mentioned it a little bit ago and we'll we'll talk about that we'll have time to reflect on the coordinators

Starting point is 00:16:05 there's just so much to sift through which is great duke talking and being available for think about an hour last month 36 minutes audio and another what 18 at the podium so that's a heck of a run there from duke And it's good. It's good to have as much as we can. But I know Al wants to get better at all three levels. And he didn't come out and say it that way. But I can tell you right now, they want to get better at all three levels.

Starting point is 00:16:32 And they desperately need to, like to figure out if Al is the right guy and the right defensive coordinator and it's going to fit and going to work. Do we feel like he had the talent to make that work last year? I think we know the answer to that. Well, and this is the season to do it too, right? Like are they getting another chance at this thing? They know. They get on track.

Starting point is 00:16:53 No. And I think they all know that. And that's the general vibe. You want to talk about Combine vibes if you're listening. I'm at the Combine in the Convention Center. And found a place, a nice, well-lit place to do probably 400 feet from where we did the interviews with Al and right above where Duke and Zach talks. but what's interesting about it is I think they knew one. And it's very clear if you read between the lines and see exactly what they say.

Starting point is 00:17:28 They all agree that they just haven't had, they didn't have enough talent, that they need to make some tweaks and that they need to go out and get talent. And so that, that to me, if I'm a listener, I would be excited about that because the Bengals, I know they know they need to be aggressive in free agency. Now, what does that mean is really interesting? They're not going to come out and say it. But I am encouraged by the conversations I've had on record, the conversations I've had with people just around over the past, however long I've been 30 hours I've been here. The Bengals are going to add, and they know they need to add on defense.

Starting point is 00:18:06 They know they have personnel issues. They know they need to fix those. What exactly that looks like? We're not going to know until the legal tampering period on March 9th. but they know that and that's the first step. The contract structure thing, man, I hope they do everything they can to fit as much as they can. Because this can turn around in one offseason and one free agency period and one successful draft. And they can flip it from 6 and 11 to 11 and 3 with three games to go in a chance to get the one seat in the AFC.

Starting point is 00:18:37 Like they can do that. That is a possibility. And I think they believe that's a possibility. So please push. please push. I'm not saying give up your whole draft, but use those resources and maximize those resources.

Starting point is 00:18:50 And if Joe Burrell has to restructure, have them do that as well. Honestly, if they just hit on the players they sign, they're in great shape. And if you want to listen to another perspective, if you want to listen to a national perspective, something I listened to Wednesday before we recorded, James,

Starting point is 00:19:05 was Mina Kines and Nate Tice talking about the teams that had the most at stake for 2025 in their segment on the Bengals, they talked, as I referenced earlier, and this is why I was thinking about it today, they talked about the Vangel's second half defensive turnaround. And obviously, like I said, there are strength of schedule caveats there,

Starting point is 00:19:22 but if they were able to start to push this thing in the right direction, strength of schedule aside, they did have the nice games, at least part of the game against Drake May and the Patriots, against Lamar Jackson the first time around, all the turnovers they created. And they're doing that without a pass rush. And they're doing that with these guys that were talking about,

Starting point is 00:19:41 needing to be replaced and needing to add talent on that side of the ball. So if they're able to do that to some degree this off season, which they can, they have about $75 million cash. If they stick to recent trends, all this cap space, spend more, essentially unlimited cap space. They can plug these holes and do the extensions that they want to do. And then that can point them in the right direction and give them everything they need to either bury themselves or get themselves out of the hole.

Starting point is 00:20:11 get back to where they want to be in 2026. Coming up next, James, a couple of players of Bengals might be interested in picking at number 10 with a little bit of news coming out of Indianapolis. We'll cover the tidbits about Ruben Bain and Peter was to finish the show coming up next. Today's show is brought to by Fandul. Everyone wants to go. And by the way, I'm in Indianapolis right now. Guess where I was last April.

Starting point is 00:20:37 I was here. It might have been May for the Eastern Conference finals. I haven't been to the NBA finals. I want to go to the NBA finals. And if you want to go to the NBA finals, well, guess what? Fandul is sending you there. They're giving you the opportunity. All you have to do is use your profit boost on any NBA future.

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Starting point is 00:21:27 That's fandle.com and use your profit boost on an NBA future to get entered to win. Play your game with Fandle, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Rubin Bain isn't testing at the combine, James. And I'm going to spend this positively because David Bailey is testing at the combine. So for at least a little bit, when David Bailey goes out there and tests really well, let's just suppose. We'll see what happens. Maybe by the time you've listened to this, he's tested. Maybe we do get Ruben-Bain's arm measurements. Maybe not. We know the Titans are really into Ruben Bain, regardless of his arm measurements. There's a chance that public perception on these guys flips.

Starting point is 00:22:08 And some people already have David Bailey ahead of Ruben Bain. But there is more than an undercurrent at this point of commentary around Ruben Bain that suggests he might make it to 10. And maybe I'm getting my hopes up here in late February and I shouldn't be James. But the idea that he's not testing at the combine and he'll probably test it as pro day, fine, might give us a little bump in one direction or another for Ruben Bain and the perception of Ruben Bain from all these teams. And I think a lot of teams are really going to like Ruben Bain. Don't get me wrong.

Starting point is 00:22:43 But I'll take anything at this point that. that I think might push Ruben Bain closer to 10. Yeah, for sure. I totally get that. I think it's unrealistic as a word, right? But it's more realistic than Bell Reese, formerly our Val Reese, going by Val Reese, making it to 10. Like, I think he's long gone.

Starting point is 00:23:04 I think that that perception is reality for a guy like Reese. So, yeah, I mean, could Bain drop a little bit and get to 10 if he does? I certainly think he's going to be either in the mix or a run to the podium type guy. I haven't talked a ton yet planning to, but haven't talked a ton yet about specific guys with people here a little bit. Like there are some things that you do. Like we've talked about Sunny Style some. I think he's going to be in the mix at 10 if he's there, depending on what happens in free agency,

Starting point is 00:23:38 all of those things. By the way, another thing that I mentioned as we're tying like free agency to the draft, what if they pay a safety, right? Or what if they pay a linebacker? Are they still going to be willing to go that way in the draft? And I asked Duke that, and he made a joke about it. But then he said, yeah, if that player, if we feel really good about that player, we're probably going to take him.

Starting point is 00:24:02 And they should on defense, by the way, because they need everything. There's nothing they don't need. And Ruben Bain is certainly something that a lot of teams are probably going to view as a need. And also, I hate the tight. if they get Ruben Bain with Jeffrey Simmons. And, yeah, hate. Hate is a strong word, but hate is the right word. Yeah, I think the quote from Duke Toba would be tested at safety.

Starting point is 00:24:27 Because we never have full transparency, right? Because what he's really saying, it's like, if we have a guy that's a clear tier ahead, because what he was talking about in that context, for those that haven't heard the whole thing, was we don't want to drop a tier down. Like sometimes if we have to, especially outside of the first round, we have to drop a tier down out of our 1C into our 2A group or whatever it is to pick a guy that's going to fill a need. Sometimes we'll do that.

Starting point is 00:24:52 And if that doesn't work out, Duke Tobin took responsibility. He said, that's on me. I have to make sure we don't make those mistakes. But I think they'd really be challenged in safety because it sounds like they're pretty high a Jordan battle too. And we'll see what direction that goes this offseason if they approach an extension there or not for Jordan battles, not a guy we've really talked about a ton. as an extension candidate.

Starting point is 00:25:16 We'll talk about them. We'll dive into that. That's a good tease. Yeah, that's probably, because it's come up at the combine, probably something that we'll talk about here in the next week or so. But I do wonder if they spent big money on a safety along with Jordan Battle,

Starting point is 00:25:30 where Caleb Downs would end up fitting, hypothetically, in this tiering system that they do, would it be a tier above whoever the next guy is for them? Because it could be, well, we have, say,

Starting point is 00:25:43 for example, we have Caleb Downs as a 1B, and maybe also 1B is one of those corners that could be really good out of this draft class. Maybe they go the corner route instead at that point. So I do think that safety would really test what Duke Tovin told you guys about going back to that position in the draft if they do address it in free agency. Just as an example, if we're talking about it, I think it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:26:06 Yeah. Spoiler, they're all idiots, if that's how it is. I'm serious. There's no way you can let, Jordan Battle if you think Caleb Downs is worth the 10th pick, Jordan Battle get in the way of that. And they shouldn't extend Jordan Battle between now and the draft. That shouldn't even be close to it. I think what complicates it for us from the outside is like they might see if they're, if we're talking about like a grouping of players, like a tier of players, say they have,

Starting point is 00:26:32 who is the healthy corner, Mansour Delane? Say they have Delane and and Caleb Downs in the same tier, right? and it's not dropping down a tier. That's where I think it gets interesting for the Bengals. Because they could see both of those guys as worthy of the 10th pick, right? But one of them is a position they haven't just spent a lot of resources on. I think that's really good interesting. Well, they will.

Starting point is 00:26:56 They should with the extensions for Turner and Dax. So that's where it does. It does get interesting with how it is. But yeah, there's a whole Jordan battle conversation there in your right. I don't even know if you're, as of right now, I don't even know if you are aware of. all the Jordan battle stuff that has, maybe some of the quotes have emerged on social. But yeah, battle, battle, man.

Starting point is 00:27:18 We, probably not all of them. I don't know everything that Al said as of the time of what's recording this one. That's why we, yeah, that's why we haven't hit it yet because, yeah, that's certainly a theme. The other one, Peter Woods. Yeah. I liked his, I like the quotes I saw from him on Wednesday at the, at the podium. I liked how the attention he brought in. And you want to talk about a guy that you're hoping, if you draft him,

Starting point is 00:27:40 can be that interior disruptor, that's Peter Woods. I can't quit Peter Woods. I know that he's down in the 30s on a lot of these national boards. I have a hard time getting there. I still think he's probably the most interesting and exciting, do it all three-down defensive tackle prospect in this class. I think that that might be a take, and maybe that gets cold-taked,

Starting point is 00:28:04 and maybe the fall into the second round on all these national boards ends up being substantiated. there is something to it. There's some smoke there because he has met with seemingly everyone at the combine, 18 to 21 meetings, I think are the numbers that I've heard for him so far. And so that is a lot. There are a lot of teams that are doing their homework on Peter Woods trying to figure out,

Starting point is 00:28:26 hey, man, what happened? Because the NFL knows about Peter Woods. The NFL knows what Peter Woods' expectations were going into this season. And that was to be potentially a top five, top top 10 pick. And so is that a player that makes his way into that conversation and say the Bengals have invested at safety and they're looking at Caleb Downs or Peter Woods? Do they end up seeing both of those guys in the same tier, 1A, 1B, whatever it is and end up going that direction? That's going to be something that we try to track and tackle as we get closer to the draft days because we've been pretty good at stacking the Bengals board as a collective group in the Bengals. in the Bengals media space the last few years.

Starting point is 00:29:12 And I'm sure we'll get into that exercise again this year here in a month or so, right? That's about when that would happen. Yeah, well, the week prior to the draft, we get the draft usually. I guess a month, month and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So regardless, there's going to be plenty of juicy nuggets coming out of Indy and plenty

Starting point is 00:29:32 that we're going to continue to react to. We're going to have you covered. It's time now. Like if you need it like a month, month and a half to get out of the season and remove yourself, well, you've done that. Now come back. Let's roll. It's offseason time.

Starting point is 00:29:47 It's an important few months here for the Bengals and we're going to have you covered every step of the way. Really excited for Peter Woods testing, man. Some of the stuff that people are saying, like he might test crazy. That could be fun. And if he does, we'll probably talk about that workout. I'm sure it'll be everywhere by the time you hear it from us. That's going to do it those from.

Starting point is 00:30:07 This episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast, until next time, thanks for listening. Ho day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - The Bengals Will Try to Upgrade Roster Without "Big Swings"

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