Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Unc Bowl Part 2 — Will Pittsburgh's Defensive Overhaul Slow Joe Flacco and Ja'Marr Chase?

Starting point is 00:00:01 Crossover Thursday here on the Locked-on Podcast Network and the Steelers and Bengals are set for their rematch. We'll talk about the biggest things to look for here on Crossover Thursday. It's the Locked-on Podcast Network. Let's get into it. You are Locked-on NFL crossover, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello and welcome to crossover Thursday here on the Locked-on Podcast Network. I'm Chris Carter of Lockdown Steelers. He's Jake Liskow of Lockdown Bedgoals.

Starting point is 00:00:38 and you are listening to the number one sports podcast network in the world right now on the Lockdown Podcast Network for Crossover Thursday and crossover Thursday. As always is brought to you by prize picks down with the prize picks app today and use code locked on NFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. We'll have more on them later. Jake, my man, it's been a minute. I mean, actually it's kind of just really been not been a minute because the Steelers and Bengals just played each other like a month ago. but these two teams are in interesting positions because I think everyone said the Bengals were going to be down and out of it. And they're not certainly in a position to make the playoffs right now. But Joe Flacco has engineered an offense that has averaged like 37 points per game since he's joined them.

Starting point is 00:01:24 It shredded the Steelers. And as I'm going to talk about it a bit, it made, it was that in the Packers game made the Steelers restructure how they designed their defense. And I wanted to ask you, how much. how much longer do you think this goes for the Bengals? Is this just a reality that this is who they're going to be? Or do you feel like there's a bit of a mirage in this early success that they've had? Well, it's hard to say that there's a mirage because they've done it consistently. They've been the number one EPA per play offense in the NFL since Joe Flacco

Starting point is 00:01:54 began starting for the Cincinnati Bengals, which really makes you regret keeping Jake Browning and that starting role for three weeks before they finally figured out that they had to make a trade. but there's probably some semblance of a return to earth coming. The reason I say that is I remain a little bit skeptical about the running game. The running game has really been supercharging this Bengals offense. Yeah, there's T. Higgins. Yeah, there's Jamar Chase. Yeah, there's Joe Flacko with his first 400-yard game, I think, in his career at age 40 plus.

Starting point is 00:02:28 But despite those guys being the engine that drives this thing, they are still executing in the run game when they get those advantageous looks. And as we're going to talk about, they're seeing a lot of double-double. They're seeing a lot of, okay, Jamar Chase and T. Higgins are the guys that are going to beat us. And so defenses are trying to bracket those guys, put true doubles on them, take them away, cloud them, a variety of different looks to get two defenders' attention on the Bengalsar wide receivers. But when teams have done that, at least until the Bears game, they've been able to run the ball really effectively. And that kind of started a little bit against the Pittsburgh Steelers,

Starting point is 00:03:02 few weeks ago that really continued against the Jets. And the thing is, is that none of these defenses, I thought the Steelers would have a good defense, but statistically, I don't think it's really there. Maybe it's trending in the right direction, and you can tell me about that. But none of these defenses are defenses that have statistically been high productive defenses this year that are consistently thwarting their opposition. So that's where the concern is. I do think there are some cracks in the foundation.

Starting point is 00:03:26 Joe Flacco's playing through that AC joint, played through it a couple of weeks ago and was fantastic in that game against the Bears. that by all accounts, the Bengals should have stolen, and then the defense said what the defense did. It's the worst defense in the last 25 years. Maybe the worst defense ever. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. But Flacco has been able to play through this and has played reasonably well.

Starting point is 00:03:49 But every now and then, you see those, ah, yeah, there's Joe Flacco. We've been watching Joe Flacco for 30 years, I think, as long as we've been alive, I adjust. But, you know, the guy has played really well. there are some cracks and the passing game efficiency isn't where it would be, obviously, if Joe Burrow were playing, the run game has been that stabilizing force for the offense over the last few weeks. So how much does all of that continue?

Starting point is 00:04:14 Do they continue to be able to block up and run well when defenses do give extra attention to the wide receivers? That's a thing that has been moving the Bengals offense. And I'm curious to see how the Steelers answer this week, Chris, where they couldn't really handle the Bengals receivers outside. but played a lot of man. And as a result, the Bengals were able to get things going in the run game that week as well. A lot of miss tackles for both sides in that game. And you're telling me that this defense is going to look a little bit different this week for the Steelers than it did the last time the Bengals saw it. It has been.

Starting point is 00:04:45 I mean, they're playing now, but coming into the Bengals game, they were basically playing a lot of one high shells, a lot of trying to say, hey, we're manning you up. Here's cover one. Come and get us. But the problem is they said that. And then the Bengals came and got them. And then the Packers came and got him in the second half. The first half, they had the Packers pretty much locked up.

Starting point is 00:05:04 And then all of a sudden they just started folding all over the place. But since then, the Steelers have basically said, we're going to throw out a whole new plan. We wanted Jalen Ramsey to be our super slot corner who would flex to the outside when we want him. Now he's their free safety. And he's in with Kyle Dugger, a guy that they picked off from the Patriots and the trade. And they're playing a lot more too high shells, almost like 70% of the time now.

Starting point is 00:05:27 they're saying they're giving their cornerback support like hey be aggressive underneath take away those early reads so that our pass rush can get home and that has helped they've had back to back weeks where they've had five plus sacks on teams and and that's against the number one off what was the number one offense the NFL and the Colts two weeks ago and then speaking of mirages as you mentioned earlier yeah be careful jake and jake and them that might be listening but but to your point you know you're talking about and I think that there's something the Steelers have had learned from that. They said, hey, we can't be the team that lives in single coverage,

Starting point is 00:06:02 but we can still be a team that sets up our pass rushers to win. And that's what the Steelers didn't do in that game against the Bengals. Joe Flack was just getting the ball out extremely quickly and doing so uncontested. And Justin Herbert got the ball out quickly in this win that the charges had over the Steelers. But it was those were more contested. And there were plenty of times. Steelers sacked him five times where that pressure got home. And I think the biggest thing, to your point, is the run game.

Starting point is 00:06:27 the Bengals offense, when you look at their numbers right now, they're dead last in the NFL in yards per game on the ground. They're 20th in yards per carry. But they are eighth an explosive run rate. And I think that speaks to their Chase Brown's ability to hit the hole and hit it hard. And when they get it going, it is dangerous. And to me, that's the balance the Steelers have to strike. The Steelers defense has to be, has to take away the quick reads from Jamar Chase and T.

Starting point is 00:06:52 Higgins being a factor and forced Joe Flacco to hold on to the ball at least four to five seconds. to get into their routes, to allow the pass rush to get home against this Bengals' offensive line. And at the same time, in doing that, they need the guys who are the front seven to win as a front seven, not as an eighth guy coming down from the safety position to help. They need guys like Cam Hayward, Keanu Benton, Derek Harmon, the rookie out of Oregon to win the interior gaps. The outside guys have been doing a good job. Highsmith, Watt, Herbig's also been really good this year. But they also need Peyton Wilson and Patrick queen in the middle to navigate those holes pretty well.

Starting point is 00:07:27 And if they could do that, that's the key to the Steelers success is they try to bottle up your receiving so you don't get the quick pass and you can't live by the quick pass. And then they stuff your run. And then all of a sudden, their pass rush gets home. And that's what the Steelers, that's the adjustment they've made, try to make it so that their pass rushers are their best playmakers. Yeah, you have to have some way to deal with that if you're the Cincinnati Bengals. What's interesting is you rattle off those stats about the Bengals run game.

Starting point is 00:07:52 And I don't contest them, obviously. the stats are what they are. They started the year as an atrocious anemic running game. What's interesting is since they played the Steelers, week seven and on, they've got the second highest rushing success rate in the NFL behind the Indianapolis Colts. They've got the second highest rushing EPA per play in the NFL behind the Indianapolis Colts. And I mentioned that the overall EPA per play numbers, Bengals' overall success rate is second in the NFL in that period of time behind the Los Angeles Rams.

Starting point is 00:08:19 They're second in offensive EPA per play now behind the Los Angeles Rams since week seven. not including that first week when Joe Flacco took over as starting quarterback for the Bengals. So they're getting there with the run game. The dropback EPA per play is good. The dropback success rate is good, especially in the last three weeks. But the run game has been such a crucial element there

Starting point is 00:08:40 where, yeah, if you can make Joe Flacco hold it for a beat and he can't answer that by handing the ball off, then the Bengals are in trouble. If he has to sit there and the offensive line has to hold up for two and a half plus seconds, he can't get rid of the ball quickly in quick game because guys aren't uncovering quickly. Then these defensive adjustments you're talking about for the Steelers, they're going to win in the trenches.

Starting point is 00:09:00 We still know, despite whatever you think about, the Steelers' defense this year and whatever the stats have been, they still have dudes up front that are going to beat the Bengals' dudes up front, given enough time to do so. So how the Bengals answer that both with the run game and Joe Flacko doing a lot of the classic package play, the under center, like, oh, yeah, we're going to go hand a ball off, but actually I have numbers.

Starting point is 00:09:21 So I'm just going to flip this out to Jamar Chase from under center, which you're not seeing as much in the NFL. That's kind of the Aaron Rogers, Joe Flacco, old school quarterbacks have been doing it for a while at this point, tool in the toolbox. So the Bengals need to have those answers as you're pointing out a change that the Steelers are making as they continue to shape their defense, Chris, around what the Bengals are trying to do on offense. They are.

Starting point is 00:09:44 The Steelers brought in their secondary this year. Jalen Ramsey and Darius laid account with the Bengals. It didn't work. And when it didn't work, they said, all right, we're changing it again. And now you got a sent away Juan Thornhill. They now signed Asante Samuel Jr. I don't know he'll play for this game. I think that that's going to be, they're going to ramp them up for a week.

Starting point is 00:10:03 That's two guys in the Steelers secondary that I know Bengals fans were interested in this year between Asante Samuel Jr. and Kyle Dugger. That's interesting, you know. It's also a reminder of how old we are when I see Asante Samuel Jr. playing next to Joey Porter, Jr., and I'm just like, this is ridiculous. But I think the defense, the Steelers defense against the Bengals offense is the big matchup of this game. because the Bengals offense, we've seen it lighted up. Again, 33 points against the Steelers, 38 points against the Jets,

Starting point is 00:10:29 42 points against the Bears. And yes, the Jets are a bad team. The Steelers played bad defense. But the Bears, their defense can perk up at times. And I was really impressed by how the offense kept getting after them, you know, despite the loss that they had. This is going to be a big match. But on the flip side, the Bengals defense, while it's been struggling mildly all season long and, like you said, historically bad, the Steelers' offense looked atrocious against the charges.

Starting point is 00:10:53 And I want to talk about the potential of Aaron Rogers. Is he in the sundowning of his part of his career? Or is there is this, is he going to be able to bounce back against what's historically been a bad defense this season? We'll talk about that next year on crossover Thursday here on the locked on podcast network. Chris Carter, Jick Liskow, take with us. We'll be right back. But first, remind you today's episode is brought to by Supply House. When the opening whistle blows on a new repair, get your crew moving forward with Supply House.

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Starting point is 00:13:11 That's code locked on NFL to get $50 in lineups after your first $5 play. Prize picks. It's good to be right. Back here on crossover Thursday here on the Locked on podcast network, Jake, the Bengals defense it has been bad all season. I know Trey Hendrickson, is there an update on his injury situation? I saw him maybe coming back this week. There's questions about that moving forward.

Starting point is 00:13:42 I know he didn't play in the last game, but he's still a huge factor anytime he's on the field. Yeah, I mean, he's the one guy on the Bengals defense that can actually make a play. So in that sense, I mean, besides DJ Turner, sorry, DJ Turner, Raser, DJ Turner has been legitimately good this year for the Bengals of the corner. besides that is Trey Hendrickson. They have no pass rush without him. Zach Taylor described him as doubtful early in the week.

Starting point is 00:14:04 We'll see if that changes by the end of the week. But it did not sound like Trey was going to be making a triumper return. So I look at that. And it makes me wonder what the Steelers, I mean, this last week, the Steelers couldn't get a lot right. Aaron Rogers was missing wide open guys. Johnny Smith was open on a simple, just corner pattern. It just missed him really high.

Starting point is 00:14:27 But in this last game, that they played the Bengals. Aaron Rogers lit it up. Him and Joe Flagglo had the Unk Bowl shootout, and it looks like that's what they're going to try to have again in this game here. But I guess the big thing is, you know, they traded away Logan Wilson. Mike Tom, I acknowledge that, you know, in this, you know, leading up to this game. Are there elements of this Bengals defense that you see that have developed? Like, I see a higher sack percentage rating from this team as far as their, they're, they're proven. Is there something, some element of this defense, the Steelers must be worried about.

Starting point is 00:14:58 considering they're coming off of such a bad game. No. Damn. No. No, this defense until I see something that shows me otherwise is on pace to be one of the worst defenses of all time. Like I said, I mean, if you follow up that Steelers game and getting shredded by Aaron Rodgers for 31 points with a reasonable game against the Jets, then maybe you can sell me on, okay, this defense can not be terrible. They're just bad. they're probably like in the 20 to 27 range

Starting point is 00:15:28 if they had held up against the Jets but then they got torched by Justin Fields and the Jets who tore it down the next week and they didn't have Garrett Wilson in that game either and then you go out and you can't get a single stop against the Chicago Bears in the second half and a couple of stops that they might have had in the first half they give them penalties on first downs and so

Starting point is 00:15:46 until I see otherwise like I said there's no reason for me to believe that suddenly this team is going to figure out how to rush a passer where they're throwing 10 different guys at it, none of them can get home consistently enough to affect the passer in a way that matters or giving up the second worst yards per game, at least as of last week, in the last 25 years.

Starting point is 00:16:13 They have the second worst EPA per play defensively. In the last 25 years, and only the 2008 Detroit Lions were worse. They were worse in defensive success rate, worst in points per game. in the last 25 years. And I know offensive trends are doing whatever they're doing, points are up compared to 25 years ago. But when you are the fourth-first run yards-per-carry defense,

Starting point is 00:16:34 for example, in the last 25 years. And again, this is a week ago. So maybe these numbers have slightly changed because the 25 Giants and the 25 bills are also in that conversation, incidentally. Yeah, why would you think that anything would be better because they've been worse since the last time they played, then they had a buy week?

Starting point is 00:16:52 I don't know, man. Maybe some guys come out of the biweek and they make some serious adjustments and apply some learning. There are a lot of young guys on this defense right now. Maybe the week off gives them a chance to apply some lessons learned. But until I see it, I will not believe it. And it really is a downer considering that this should be a pretty positive week for the Bengals with Joe Burrow starting his 21-day window coming off the AIR.

Starting point is 00:17:17 And you know what I want to give you a chance to talk about that. The Bengals have a tough stretch. coming up here. You're in Pittsburgh, which despite the Steelers ran them up and down that they've had this year, playing in Pittsburgh's tough and the Steelers need the win. You got the Patriots who are really tough after that. Then you got the Ravens, the Bals, the Bills, and the Ravens. Is there a point where the Bengals just say, hey, Joe, we're going to shut it down, or do you see him definitely coming back this season? Yeah, we talked about this on the episode yesterday on Locktime Bengals. And the gist is that if he's healthy, nobody's going to tell him no.

Starting point is 00:17:52 Okay. I think he wants to play. I think that if it's me running the team, the Bengals need to beat the Steelers this week for me to consider. Because if they get to three and eight, like, yeah, okay, you can get to nine and eight, sure. You can do that again. Like, that's what Joe Burroughs mentality probably is, right?

Starting point is 00:18:11 Like, I can come back and win out. And if we sweep the Ravens and, you know, we could get to nine wins. Maybe it works out. But, like, you know, the chance of that working out, the upside to it with the recurrence of turf toe injuries, which it sounds like they're not as worried about because he had the surgery and is going through the rehab that way. But, you know, it's scary to me. And, you know, maybe we need to talk about what's going on with Aaron Rogers.

Starting point is 00:18:36 I see this is a get right game for the Steelers. If they don't get right this week, then I have major concerns if I'm the Steelers. and I have major concerns about Aaron Rogers, but the Bengals have been a get right team for just about everybody this year. So I don't see that changing this week. I mean, it's literally been every game outside of week one against the Browns. The Bengals have been that which cures your ailing offense. I mean, the Jets came.

Starting point is 00:19:04 That was the week I believe Justin Fields was like crying at the podium because of things were getting said about him. And he gets that one to your point. the Steelers need this to be a get-right game. Aaron Rogers was atrocious in his last game, and when he was bad, I think everyone started to feed off of it. Calvin Austin dropped a pass that just fell right into the hands of a defender.

Starting point is 00:19:25 You know, the run game, you know, they averaged five yards per carry with Jalen Warren, but it wasn't able to take flight. This needs to be a week they get it together, that they get everything back going, that they kind of had going just a little bit ago because, you know, against. Jailer Warren was unstoppable.

Starting point is 00:19:41 the last time these teams fight. Just do it again. And listen, there's a lot of Steelers fans that are like, just run the wheels off of. We don't care. And Mike Tomlin, it was interesting on Tuesday, he said to the effect, he's like, we cannot just hand the ball to Jalen Warren. And I think the Steelers, they want the longevity of Jalen Warren. They want him to be good throughout the scene. And they know that if they just keep feeding him the ball, because he has a smaller back, that they will wear him down. They don't want that to happen because they really like the future with him. But to your point, they need to run the ball.

Starting point is 00:20:11 They need to be able to get your offensive line moving. These guys can move. These guys can hit and let them be the downhill running team. And I think that's part of the identity of Steelers need to be able to embrace because they need to be a balanced team to win. This is not a team that Aaron Rogers can drop back with and just throw for 400 yards. In fact, he hasn't done that this year. They've been opportunistic, if anything, Jake.

Starting point is 00:20:32 If you look around the metrics around the Steelers offense, you know, they're 16th in scoring right now, but they're 29th in total yards. their 21st EPA per play, 23rd and expected points. Their explosive rates are all pretty low right now. But when you look at what they do well, they win third and short a lot. They're top 10 in a red zone offense. They're able to capitalize on when there's an opportunity to score, they usually take it.

Starting point is 00:20:59 And they usually find ways to make things happen. But when you keep them off schedule, that's when they aren't able to just make up for that with star talent. And I think that's where if you're against the Spengal team, you can do that. You can stay on schedule. You shouldn't be afraid of running the ball. You shouldn't be afraid of being aggressive in this game.

Starting point is 00:21:16 And to me, that is the element that the Steelers have to embrace on offense to shake them out of whatever funk they were in the Chargers game because they came off of, you know, beating the Colts this the week before. Use the tight ends. Use the running backs. Just keep it relatively clean. Keep it simple. I mean, it doesn't take much, man.

Starting point is 00:21:35 This team can't tackle. They get out of their gaps. They're freelancing. I do have a question for you, though, about Aaron Rogers. So maybe we finish up our, or start to finish up our conversation. We'll go to that question here in a minute. What do you think? Let's save that for the next segment here because I think we want to talk about that.

Starting point is 00:21:53 And I want to talk about just the state of the AFC North from both of our perspectives with the Ravens on their rise. We'll get to all of that next here. On crossover Thursday, here on the Lockdown podcast network, Chris Carter, Jake Liskout, stick with us. We'll be right back. But first, I remind you, this show is sponsored. by Better Help. As the days get shorter and the nights come earlier, it can start to feel a little heavier, especially when life is already packed with work, family, and everything else. This season is so important to reach out and check in with family, with friends, and even

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Starting point is 00:23:07 That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P-com slash. Locked on because taking that step towards support might just leave you wondering why didn't I do this sooner? Jake, give me that question that you was just about to ask me on here on crossover 30 day here from the Locked On Podcast Network. You just watched Aaron Rogers have a pretty tough day. Woo! Those chargers. He was okay before that. He still like has had some glimpses of being Aaron Rogers.

Starting point is 00:23:40 I mean, even in that game against the Bengals, it was such a mixed bag between the yolo ball that was a tank. terrible interception, one unlucky interception, but a lot of good outside of that. And he showed that he still has that Hail Mary on him. Joe Flacco tried to throw a Hail Mary last week, and it died about 20 yards short of the goal line. But, you know, he had a sprained A.C. joint, so maybe he cut him a little bit of slack. Had a great game overall. And Flacco's been so productive with the Bengals. So with utmost seriousness, I ask you, Chris Carter, would you rather have Aaron Rogers

Starting point is 00:24:11 or Joe Flacco quarterbacking for Pittsburgh Steelers this week? I hate you for this question. Because I'd rather have Aaron Rogers simply because I think that if you put either quarterback on the Bengals right now with Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, they'd be ripping people apart. I still think that Aaron Rogers can definitely rip it. I think that the way the Steelers play offense, it's a little harder. And I like the way that Aaron Rogers in his career has processed the field. And for most of this season, I think he's taken advantage of when things are there. like he he's able to get the ball to the little guy.

Starting point is 00:24:47 He'll find, you know, Connor Heard on a random pass where it's like he's the wide open guy or he'll hit Roman Wilson in a spot that really helps out the offense or, you know, he'll catch you the one time that you're leaving open, that you're leaving open, or Pat Brime, which is crazy to think that he's the guy to leave open. But he's so he's been good at seeing that. That's what was alarming about the loss of the charges, that he didn't see those things. And that's where I think the Steelers have to take a step back and see, okay, where we adjust our plan, make things. a little bit simpler, maybe get things up, but let's make sure that this isn't like Russell Wilson last year, where he went from, you know, beating the NFC championship game appearing commanders and then beating the Bengals on the road out doing Joe Burrow to just laying four straight eggs in a row to end the season. There's always that presence there with older quarterbacks,

Starting point is 00:25:33 you know, and both of these guys qualify for that. Granted, you know, Aaron Rogers is a bit older. And so maybe maybe that would be it if Joe Flacco, you know, his son, downing in the NFL career is not due for a little bit longer. Maybe it'll be him. But I still think that Aaron Rogers has the capabilities to do what the Steelers need him to do in this offense, especially because I don't think, I don't think that this offense at the end of day, wants to be just Aaron Rogers led. They want to be able to run the football, and they need to not get away from that.

Starting point is 00:26:02 And that's the balance that I think that needs to be struck here in the Steelers' Office. So to answer your question, I'm sticking with Aaron Rogers, but, man, that's a tough spot. At least the Bengals can be like, hey, we're eventually just taking back Joe Burr. That's the problem that Stevens are in right now. Yeah, the persistent problem that they found themselves in since Ben Rathustberger was a young man.

Starting point is 00:26:23 But I think that you're probably, I think that probably Aaron Rogers in the Bengals offense would be better than Joe Flacco in the Cincinnati Bengals offense because both guys can process quickly, right? But the thing that's going for Aaron Rogers this week, and we'll see, because D.K. Metcalfe started that game with that deep ball against DJ Turner,

Starting point is 00:26:44 the Bengals' best corner, one of the better corners in the NFL this year, and just beat him off the line, has a straight line speed to stack him, has the size to box them out. That's not a good size matchup for DJ Turner. But then D.K. Metcalf kind of disappeared. And part of the reason for that was that the Bengals were giving so much dedicated help over the top. And both of those Pat Fremroath touchdowns in that game come when the safety is way out over D.K. Metcalf on the D.K. Metcalfe on the D. K. McKaff Pat Friamrious side of the field. And so that is an adjustment you need to see the Bengals make this week. But at the same time, I don't think that. it matters. The Bengals, and Al Golden has said this, he said he can't make it simpler.

Starting point is 00:27:21 Like there's no way to simplify what they're doing to try to make it easier for guys to play fast. And that is a problem. Guys aren't playing fast. Guys are hesitant. And that leads to bad angles and leads to you being out of position to make tackles. And it's part of their tackling problem. But when you have your defensive coordinator on record saying that he can't make it simpler. And Aaron Rogers has seen it all, just like Flackham. Right? These guys are seeing a ton of football. Yep. If you're going out there and saying like, yeah, we're going to play spot drop cover two.

Starting point is 00:27:51 We're going to play spot drop Tampa 2. We're going to play spot drop, cover three, cover six. Aaron Rogers knows what that looks like. He knows where the ball should go in those situations. And if you can't rush a passer, the Bengals can't, every reason for me to believe this is a get right week for the Steelers and you don't see that spiral. But again, like I said, if you don't see that bounce back near the Steelers, then, yeah, major alarm bells going on.

Starting point is 00:28:12 Major alarm bells. certainly would be in Pittsburgh right now. To me, for the Steelers, this is a must-win game, particularly because of the way the standings have played out, despite the Ravens starting, what, one-in-five on the season? They're now four-and-five. The Steelers started out four-in-one. They're now five-and-four,

Starting point is 00:28:28 so the Steelers only have a game up on the Ravens at this point, and neither of these teams have played each other. I think Steelers fans here, Jake, they're happy. They don't have to go against Joe Burrow, but they're kind of hoping that Joe Burrow comes back for those two games against the Ravens or at least one of them because the Steelers, I think they can still get to 10 wins this season,

Starting point is 00:28:51 you know, 11 if they go berserk. But I think 10 wins is still doable. Nine wins is, I think, very doable. 10 wins is like where they could be right now based off of how they've played. But in that, they could still use the help of other teams to beat the Ravens here down the stretch. We always do our preseason AFC North talk,

Starting point is 00:29:11 but I wanted to get your sense of just, just how you've seen the AFC North play out between where the Ravens are and if their three-game win streak is the start of maybe their rise back to prominence. Well, the big question is going to be, do they have to play any real football teams the rest of the way? Do they have to play any real offenses? Because the problem for the Ravens, even when Lamar Jackson wasn't playing, was the defense couldn't stop.

Starting point is 00:29:35 I mean, 44 points to the Houston, Texas, who at the time were averaging like two points for a game, I think. Yeah, it was rough. the defense was a real problem. In the last few weeks against the bears, they give up 16, against the dolphins that give up six, against the fighting JJ McCarthy's, they give up 19. These are real offenses.

Starting point is 00:29:53 I know what the Bears just said to the Bengals. I don't care. The Bengals aren't a real defense. And then they play the Browns this week. And then they play the Jets. And then they get the Bengals who, like, we'll see what version of the Bengals that is, but that's the third straight year of a Thursday night game in Baltimore

Starting point is 00:30:07 for the Baltimore home game against the Bengals. And we know the history of A. AFC North Thursday night games and who wins those games. Yeah. So I don't know how much I'm buying Baltimore's win streak, but they are certainly in the mix for the AFC North, right? Like whichever team, and these teams really play each other a lot down the stretch, right? Baltimore has played one AFC North game so far against the Cleveland Browns in week two.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Yep. And Pittsburgh has two Baltimore games and a Cleveland game. Yep. So a lot of AFC North football to be played, and whichever team has the best record in those AFC North games has a shot of the division. Like the Bengals have a shot, I know they're 3 and 6, and this is crazy.

Starting point is 00:30:47 It's a big if, and I'm not saying I think this is going to happen, but if they were to sweep the AFC North and get six wins in the AFC North, they probably only need two more wins to win the division. Now, a lot of things that have to happen there, a lot easier for the Steelers say, yeah, if the Steelers can win these AFC North games

Starting point is 00:31:04 and the division is theirs for the taking, but the AFC North is going to come down to who wins in the AFC North. the rest of the way because there's only a handful of games outside of the ASC North for any of these teams, namely Pittsburgh and Baltimore, but even for Cincinnati against teams that look like their playoff contenders in Buffalo, I think on the schedule for both the Steelers and the Bengals being one of them. Yeah, I look at that stretch for the Bengals. You beat the Steelers, then you have a gotlet of the Patriots who Drake Bay is playing so well. And then Ravens, Bill's, Ravens, that just does not feel right to have to play three straight, four straight,

Starting point is 00:31:38 MVP quarterback level players. That's a lot to ask. Ask the Bengals. But to your point about the Steelers and the Ravens, you know, the Steelers, they have a strict, they got the Bengals,

Starting point is 00:31:48 then they're in Chicago. Then they get a tough stretch. They get the bills, the Ravens, they get the Dolphins, but then they get the lions right after that. So they don't have it easy. And I look at the Ravens schedule right now.

Starting point is 00:31:59 And yeah, these X coming games, you're right. They play the Browns in Cleveland, which can always be weird, but I don't think that they're good enough to even win. with that right now.

Starting point is 00:32:09 The Jets and then you get the Bengals. But this is where I think it would be tricky. If Joe Burrow comes back, you get Joe Burrow, like you said, Thursday night football, that does 10, that always favors the home team on Thursday night football on the AFC North. But then you have, you still get two games with the Steelers, a game at Cincinnati on a Sunday at 1 o'clock. And if Joe Burrow plays in that game, I think that's still very interesting, even with Joe Flacko. But then in between all of that, you still have to play the Patriots and the Packers.

Starting point is 00:32:35 And the Packers, we just saw how they can be up and down. but the Patriots have been consistently good this year. And I think this is like you're saying, it's going to come down to those AFC North games themselves. But this, you know, I know that the HBO documentary, the hard knocks was all over the AFC North last year. But I think this is going to be a real big dust up at the end of the season that's shaping up to be right now.

Starting point is 00:32:59 Yeah, like who loses the Browns? Somebody's going to lose to the Browns. Some. Like even when they're bad, they typically steal one. in the AFC, at least one, sometimes two in the AFC North. Last year they won two, despite being three and 14. How many games in an NFL season? 17.

Starting point is 00:33:17 They still won two in the AFC North last year. And so if the Browns still went off you, you might be in bad shape, and every single team in the AFC North still plays the Browns at least once down the stretch. And that week 18, Pittsburgh, Baltimore game, could that be for all the marbles? I'm just, I'm not looking forward to,

Starting point is 00:33:37 being flexed to the night game, Jake, and then just having to be up so late. I hate night games. And the final week of the season for a playoff spot, the stakes. I hate it now. Give me a 1. 1 p.m. kickoffs for life, baby. That's all Chris Carr. That's my Christmas gift. Give me all 1 p.m. kickoff games

Starting point is 00:33:55 from now on as a reporter. Spoken as a true reporter. Yes. We all want mercy. Jake, thanks so much for doing Crossover Thursday with with me here. Let people who can find you, follow you and get more of your work. Always a pleasure. Make sure if you care about the Bengals, Steelers fans out there, and you want to stay up to date on Joe Burroughs recovery. You're checking out Lockdown Bengals and, of course, on Twitter at Jake Liskow as much as I post on Twitter

Starting point is 00:34:21 these days. Absolutely. He's Jake. Let's go. Thanks so much for joining me here on Crossover Thursday here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. I'm Chris Carter, host of the Lockdown Steelers podcast. You can find me on social media, whether you're TikTok, Blue Sky, Instagram, Twitter, all those things. At Carter Critiques is always my handle. You can read my work in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette by going to post-dash gazette.com. You can find me here on the Locked-on Steelers podcast,

Starting point is 00:34:46 just like you find Jake on Locked-on Bengals podcast on your favorite podcasting apps and on YouTube. Like our channels to enjoy more of our work and check out all the things we do Monday through Friday. Back here tomorrow on both of our channels, finishing up the week and getting you ready for Steelers Bengals this Sunday at Accresor Stadium.

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