Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Updating the Cincinnati Bengals' playoff outlook, and what we're buying on defense after 3 straight wins

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals narrow path to the playoffs remains much the same after a weekend where they didn't really get much help. Let's break it down. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rupin. We are locked on Bengals on the Lockdown Podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:35 that we're covering your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Welcome back to the everydayers. Welcome back to those of you who make us your first listen. And if you're new to the show, interested in the playoff scenarios or whether we're buying any of this three-game bounce we've seen from the defense since we started talking about the possibility we would see that bounce late in the season, while this is an episode, we will cover those topics. So you can hit that subscribe button on YouTube or anywhere you get your podcast.

Starting point is 00:01:05 and you won't miss an episode. Today we're brought to you by prize picks where you can get $50, sorry, instantly when you play your first $5. Check it out at the PricePix app orpricepix.com slash locked on NFL. And James, as we've done after the weekend, the last few weeks, we've been updating,

Starting point is 00:01:26 well, a couple of things. Less interested, I think, in draft position this week. But for those of you that are interested, if the season were to end today, the Bengals would be picking 14th in the NFL draft after their three-game win streak. But the path to the playoffs still exist and still looks largely the same in terms of the things they need to happen as it did before the weekend, which, as I said, James Vien, they didn't really get any help in a significant way over the week 16 games.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Yeah, outside of the Big Denver game, of course, which was huge, which is why everything got as exciting as it did this past weekend. But yeah, they didn't get any help. And that's okay. But they need one of these cellar dwellers, these New York teams to stand up. They need their fellow division rivals, the Cleveland Browns and Dorian Thompson,

Starting point is 00:02:23 to have the game of his life this week. They need the Pittsburgh Steelers and Russell Wilson to dial it back to 2012 and go toe-to-to-toe with Patrick Mahomes in a few days. They need those things to happen. We'll see if they do. But yeah, it's a tough spot. I was hoping, the one I was hoping for,

Starting point is 00:02:42 I didn't actually think the fighting Brian Callahan's were going to beat the Indianapolis Colts. And if they had showed up in the first half, maybe they would have. But I did think the 49ers were going to beat the dolphins. And so Kyle Shanahan and more importantly, Brock Purdy and Debo Samuel and the rest of the 49ers, you let me down. I thought that was the game where it would be. like, all right, well, at least the dolphins, you have the edge over them, and then you're,

Starting point is 00:03:06 hoping for the Colts to stub their toe down the stretch. But it didn't happen. The Bengals don't need the Colts to lose one of their final two games. They need the dolphins to lose one of their final two games. They have to win out. And then they really, really need, if all of those things happen, the Broncos to lose to the Chiefs in week 18. And that's why you're talking about the Steelers, beating the Chiefs, because then the

Starting point is 00:03:29 chiefs would have something clearly to play for with Buffalo. expected to win another game this week and then threatening the Chiefs for the one seed where Buffalo were to win out and the Chiefs were to drop a game or would have to drop two games, I guess, then Buffalo would have the tiebreaker there. So the Chiefs with their deal with the devil and all of their crazy wins this year with only one loss, that lost to make Buffalo. The Bengals need the Steelers of all teams to force the Chiefs in playing their starters. They have a better chance of beating the Broncos motivated to keep them one seats.

Starting point is 00:04:02 So that's one factor. That assumes the Bengals can beat the Broncos this week, which is its own conversation. Big topic. We'll obviously talk about that a lot this week. We'll only have four episodes this week with the holiday and everything. So we'll still have you cover with the game preview. We'll still have the crossover.

Starting point is 00:04:18 But one fewer episode this week, just as a programming note. But in addition to that, you need the Colts to drop a game to the Giants for Jaguars. That might be the most difficult part of what the Bengals need in terms of help from other teams. the Giants and Jaguars are terrible, but maybe Brian Thomas, maybe Mac Jones can do something with the Jaguar. I mean, that's what we're talking about. Brian Thomas is awesome.

Starting point is 00:04:42 So there's one really good player between those scenes, and Malik Navors is awesome too. So maybe one of those guys can put a team on their back and the Colts will make enough mistakes. And then you need the dolphins to drop one to Cleveland or the Jets. I mean, this is what we're talking about. And it goes back to, you know, the early season losses for the Bengals,

Starting point is 00:05:01 What the help the Bengals need is significant, and they need to take care of their own business, which is going to involve beating a couple of teams that are pretty dang competent. The Denver Broncos are a real NFL team that has done real things in the trenches, one of the best offensive lines in pass blocking in football, one of the most well-rounded defenses in football, and that's where it starts before they have to deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers again. Yep, it's going to be tough. And that's why if you're the Bengals, you can only focus on that part. it. You can't send Jake Browning to Cleveland for this week so he can play and start a quarterback,

Starting point is 00:05:39 even though that would be such an upgrade from Dorian Thompson Robinson. And it would be a fun storyline if the NFL did that, right? You can't do that. James Winston, if he were starting for the Browns this week, I think that they would beat the dolphins by like 10. I do. I think the dolphins stink in cold weather. But you know who else stinks in any weather? Dorian Thompson Robinson. And so it's really tough for me to get behind DTR. Maybe it happens, but the Browns don't want to win. And that's what's tough is the Browns don't want to win. The Giants have the number one pick as of today.

Starting point is 00:06:10 They don't want to win. And so if Brian Daibel, the head coach has assurances that he's back next year, it's like, hey, calm down. We're going to get the number one pick. What's he fighting for? What are they fighting for as a team? They're going to go get a quarterback from Malik neighbors. And so they want to lose.

Starting point is 00:06:26 So that's what's tough about this for me now is it's like, the development of you know a week ago it was like oh well if james winston's quarterback that that week 17 game against miami in cleveland that's an interesting game now it doesn't feel as interesting the giants get just a huge break getting the the one seed or the one the number one overall pick excuse me talking about seating because the raiders lose and drop all the or win and drop all the way down in the draft position it's like oh man like that's the bad break too that the Bengals got in week 16 is all of those things around all the the little tentacles that you don't really think of you're the Giants in your Giants ownership let's say you have a half-time

Starting point is 00:07:10 lead you're almost radioing down like hey we better not win this game I know I would be at this point yeah I don't know how much that happens that overtly but you know there's like there's taking aspirations oh I'd throw I would throw cups with written notes on it I mean it would be if there's no way. I mean, in the Texans, the one example is Lovie Smith and the Texans a couple of years ago. They ended up getting C.J. Stroud anyway, but they won their final game. Lovey Smith gets fired and he wins the final game and there's no way I would have allowed that to happen, especially if you know you're firing Levy Smith and it cost them the number one pick. Yeah. The one piece of information the Bengals will have before their game is the outcome of that

Starting point is 00:07:57 Chief Steelers game. That is happening on Wednesday. So in the middle of the week, on Christmas, we will have that information. We'll know what's happened in that game. And that is the only thing the Bengals will know in terms of the help they need when they play their game on Saturday at 430. At 430. Your time. 1.30, my time. I'm looking at these times in Pacific time. The Colts don't play their game until Sunday. that's a Sunday early window game. The dolphins play in the afternoon window against the Browns. And so the rest of the information the Bengals are looking for,

Starting point is 00:08:36 they will not have before their game against Denver on Saturday, which guarantees, of course, that game will be very meaningful for both teams. As Denver needs to get a win somewhere, right? And they're looking for that tiebreaker over the Bengals as well, and the Bengals are looking to keep, of course. their season alive. One way the Bengals will contribute to keeping their season alive is if the defense can continue to play the way it's played the last three weeks against a couple of offenses that look significantly better than those offenses they've played in the last three

Starting point is 00:09:12 weeks. We'll discuss some of the standout performances on defense and how much we're buying the bounce on defense coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Fandall. Fandall is America's number one sports book, and you got to get in on the action right now. Maybe you think the Bengals are going to handle business and win their fourth straight, while they're three-point home favorites against the Denver Broncos. So Vegas clearly respecting what Joe Burrow and company have done, maybe you think it's going to be the other way, and that pass rush for the Denver Broncos is going to get after Joe Burrow.

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Starting point is 00:10:47 I mean, a few weeks ago, everyone is ready to fire Loua Anna Rimo in the middle of the season. They've just lost their, what, third straight game? And they're getting just absolutely torched on defense in the process, giving up 35 points, 34 points, 44 points, 44 points to Russell Wilson at home in one of their only home games in that stretch when they played four out of five games on the road. And then they had the schedule of Dallas, Tennessee, Cleveland, teams playing backup or backup level quarterbacks, teams who had some of the worst offenses in the NFL in the case of Tennessee and Cleveland. Dallas has actually still been roughly average over the last few weeks, over the last five

Starting point is 00:11:36 weeks or so. I looked at that one before we started recording. Dallas, if you're looking for some sort of sign that this defense is capable against more than just the true dregs of the NFL, the Tennessees, the Las Vegas, the Cleveland Browns, etc., the Dallas game would be the one you would point to, or you'd have to go all the way back to the Kansas City defensive performance in week two. But there were some players, and there have been some players the last few weeks that have stepped up and have started to make more consistent impacts, some young guys that are making contributions. And so as we try to parse all of this, where we cautioned about this bounce against bad

Starting point is 00:12:19 teams late in the season and said that this could be coming, we've seen it happen now, The question is having lived through that and experience that, not just being a theoretical thing that we talked about potentially happening, how much are we buying? What are we buying out of these last three games? Yeah, it's an interesting dilemma. I will say on Sunday night when I was watching the Cowboys beat the Tampa Bay Boccannear. So I was like, what in the world is this? I was shocked at that result. I really did.

Starting point is 00:12:52 I thought Tampa was going to handle business there. So, yeah, the Dallas one looks better, I would say. But the Titans stink, right? There's a reason we weren't confident in them going into that Colts game. There's a reason why I made the Cleveland references going into this week, and the Bengals banging on the team they just beat again. And so we'll see if they shock us, but the competition part of it certainly matters. But I do think that early season Bengals defense failed.

Starting point is 00:13:25 to force, create, do what the Bengals have done in recent weeks. Maybe it doesn't continue. Maybe Sean Payton and Bo Nix come in here and put on a clinic. Maybe they just can't tackle Adrick Estime, who had a touchdown last week. Or maybe they just, there's just no way they're going to be able to keep up with Cortland Sutton. But the guys I'm seeing, like they held Jerry Judy in check yesterday. Maybe that's all because of Dorian Thompson, right? maybe or maybe it's because cam taylor britt is getting back to the guy that we thought he was

Starting point is 00:14:01 in that the the start of the season was a bit weird like i i'm not so it really depends on the guy like i'm not selling all the cam taylor brit future stock because i i never thought he was going to be an all pro anyway so i think i was a little lower on him than than some or even a pro bowler a little lower on him than some but i certainly didn't expect what i saw earlier this year or he was getting beat like a drum. And so it seems like he's coming back a bit. We'll see if that continues and we need to see it this week. And I do think that the Bengals win the final two games, we're going to look at this defense and say, all right, well, this piece, this piece, those are building blocks or those are guys that can contribute moving forward. Those are guys

Starting point is 00:14:41 that you're confident in. And there are guys that have flashed. Cam, I wouldn't say has necessarily flashed. I think we know kind of what he is overall now because we have such a a larger picture. But like the Chris Jenkins is, the McKinley Jackson's, guys like that, I think this week is huge. Not that it's not huge for Cam, but it's big in a different way. The guy I'm curious about, because I was pretty critical a few weeks ago of Gino Stone, and I feel like he's answered the bell in a big way. It feels better.

Starting point is 00:15:13 It looks better. He's obviously had an interception in three straight games, including a pick six against the Titans. Where are you on Gino Stone? Are you still pretty skeptical of him? I think that after the first five or so games of the year, there were still tackling issues, but the coverage stuff was at least steadier, was more consistent with Gino Stone.

Starting point is 00:15:38 They found at some point better ways to use him. And his interception this week, while it was a tip ball from DJ Ivy, which is a great play from DJ Ivy, He gets himself in position on that play, covers a lot of ground as opposed safety, starts on the right hash and ends up working all the way back over the left side of the field to be in position to collect that tip pass. I mean, it is still a good play from Gino Stone.

Starting point is 00:16:02 I think that Stone is not the most significant of the Bengals' problems on defense right now. Sure. As of today. And it could be a fine piece if they improve other things around him on the defense. And at the number that he commands next year, they could choose to move on and overhaul that room again. If that's something they're interested in doing, they're not financially restricted from doing so, but it's also not like Gino Stone's making a ton of money next year either. And so where his early season performances from a tackling and coverage perspective had us wondering,

Starting point is 00:16:38 what's the point of this? This is really not worked. It's very different at this point than what it feels like around Sheldon Rankins. And it's not really fair to Sheldon Rankins because he's been unable to get on the field and hasn't been able to be part of this late season defensive bounce against some of these bad teams. Maybe he would be putting up good performances as well, right? But he hasn't been on the field to do that. And so where Sheldon Rankins has not had the redemption story and the opportunity to make those plays.

Starting point is 00:17:08 And all we can think about with Rankins is the relatively consistent lack of a pass rush from him where he's certainly better than what they had when they were playing Zach Carter and Lawrence Guy early in the year and they were signing guys off the street. The impact for the money they're spending on Shelton and Rankins isn't there. And so that's kind of where I would say I am on Gino Stone. And then Camp Taylor Britt playing much steadier the last few weeks. If he can carry that through the last few weeks of the season, you're feeling much better about him going into the future.

Starting point is 00:17:40 And then there's questions about the other corners and their health going in to the future years. But besides that, then it's like, okay, what about these young defensive linemen? The defensive tackles, the rookie defensive tackles combining for three sacks in that game. And Miles Murphy, I think showing some growth again late in the season, sort of like last year where some of the past rush development is happening. We're seeing him winning a little bit more, even though it's not necessarily leading to sacks. I think there's still some visible growth there. And then obviously Jordan Battle, massive game against Cleveland, playing the run really, really well.

Starting point is 00:18:19 One mistake in that game overall, but overall had a great game. If these young guys can continue that performance in these last couple of games, then you're feeling like you have some pieces you can add to supplement and build around a little bit. You don't have to fill every single position on this defense going forward. Yeah, I think the answer is in the middle, to be quite honest. They aren't going to be a defense that forces, what is it, 12 turnovers this month, like nine turnovers in the past two games. And it's their same grace, too. No doubt.

Starting point is 00:18:55 By the way, I think they can remain opportunistic. That was what was so mind-numbing about the beginning of the years. It's like, you guys are fine. You can't stop a nosebleed. Can you force, can you touch a pass? Can you get a tip ball? Can you get close to one play that matters? and so they're they're being that now and being that that opportunistic defense that forces

Starting point is 00:19:19 turnovers and I have a thought about Sheldon Rankin's and it's interesting and it has nothing to do with the long-term view everybody knows what's going to happen in a month or so when it comes to his contract but I have a thought about him and I also have a thought about another key big high price dollar free agent addition from a few years ago that happens to be out as well. So we can get into that and probably finish off some thoughts on the defense as well coming up next. This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by prize picks. If you love watching the game, you're going to love prize picks, the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy, whether it's football, basketball, or any of your favorite sports.

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Starting point is 00:21:48 Go to RocketMoney.com slash locked on today. That's rocketmoney.com slash locked on, rocketmoney.com slash locked on. James, you have a Sheldon Rankin's take. Let's hear it. Yeah. What's the one thing, even with McKinley and Chris Jenkins and these guys flashing you,

Starting point is 00:22:09 but they could use a little more interior pass rush. What if he came back this week and was good and contributed and helped them win? And then next week against the Steelers did the same thing. I just, I don't know that that's going to happen, by the way. He did not tell me that he's feeling better and ready to go. I do know he's dealing with a serious illness. A lot of people question that. I don't question that at all.

Starting point is 00:22:36 I know he got out on the field a little bit last week, and I don't mean like participating in practice, but was like out and about. Maybe. Like if there was ever a time for him to come back, wouldn't it be Saturday if he's able to? So, and then is it realistic that he can do it?

Starting point is 00:22:51 I don't know. I'm not saying that it's realistic. I don't know everything about the illness he's been dealing with. But man, what a time it would be if Sheldon Rankins were able to contribute in some way. That would be awesome. At the same time, I can't help but feel that what if is like,

Starting point is 00:23:09 what if it started raining $100 bills in my living room, you know? Well, then I'd be flying to Canada and stealing some money from Jay. It would be awesome. That's what I'd be doing. Yeah, it's great. It's pretty unlikely. Let me get a hundredo. Let me get a couple.

Starting point is 00:23:24 That would be, that would be good news for the Bengals of Shelder Americans could come back and make an impact. It just hasn't been there this year for him. What are the odds? That happens on Saturday or the Bengals make the playoffs. What's the Benfic? I think the Bengals making the playoffs is, better odds yeah because the odds of sheldon can like even play are probably roughly the odds that the

Starting point is 00:23:45 bengals can make the playoffs or will make it's probably pretty low right yeah anyways i i do think he's getting better which is that's great is a good thing yeah yeah wish of the best it's not like a sheldon rancan's bad person thing or anything he just hasn't produced the past rushing kind of impact that the Bengals were hoping for when they signed him. It's pretty simple. No, no doubt. And they could really use that right now. They could.

Starting point is 00:24:15 No doubt. And against, like I said, one of the better pass blocking offensive lines in the NFL in Denver right now. That's been a very solid trench unit for the Broncos. They can't block Mike Hilton. Don't do that. That's the thing is nobody can block Mike Hilton because of the timing. That's his whole game.

Starting point is 00:24:34 Mike Hillman is. That dude. I don't know if there's anything else on the defense. I think that the interesting things to watch on this defense for the rest of the year continue to be the young players, the guys that we've talked about, the Jordan Battles, who seems to be settling in a little bit, the Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson, Miles Murphys. And I think there's some curiosity, at least for me, around Joseph Osai down the stretch, the way that there could potentially be some curiosity around some of these other players. So Osai continues to play a little bit more, or maybe a lot more, than Miles. Murphy and continues to make those kind of hustle plays. And I wonder what kind of market there will be for Osai.

Starting point is 00:25:15 I wonder if there is mutual interest in a return to Cincinnati, if there's like a potential there for a future for him. And so he does still remain a little bit intriguing to me, does Joseph Osai. Sure. Yeah. I think he's trying to make himself a lot of money right now. And, you know, that would be like if I'm Sheldon Rankins coming back now and trying to salvage this a little bit because

Starting point is 00:25:37 there's no stock left. And I don't, by the way, I don't think it's his choice. Like, he's been sick. He's been ill. So there's a reason behind it, but it would be nice for him to come back. You know how else it would be nice if they had this week as we switched to the offense real quick? Orlando Brown Jr.

Starting point is 00:25:54 I wouldn't rule him out. I think he's got a shot against the Broncos. Probably should have said that 20 minutes ago. But I think he has a shot to play this week. Not saying he will. And I don't think he will be 100%. but I think that you're talking about one of the toughest NFL players talking about someone that got on the field last week a little bit

Starting point is 00:26:14 and is trending in the right direction and the reason he's not on IR is for this very scenario. Hey, we're four and eight. If we get back into it, we'll keep you around and he knew it. And that was kind of the play. And so now you have him available potentially. You have him, he's available to play if he's healthy enough to go.

Starting point is 00:26:37 He's not on IR and unavailable. So we'll see if Orlando can go, but it would be huge. So just something I'm monitoring ahead of injury reports coming out and practice and all of those things on a short week. Yeah, it is technically possible

Starting point is 00:26:50 because he is not on injured reserve after that week 13 game that Orlando Brown can play this week legally is what you mean. If he does go. Not available. Not available. I don't know if he'll be available to be clear.

Starting point is 00:27:04 But he's allowed to play. If he does go, hopefully he's significantly better than he was the last time he tried to go out there. He took a few weeks off, obviously, between the injury and week eight and trying to return in week 13 against Pittsburgh. It wasn't great. He clearly was still dealing with that injury in a very significant way. So if he tries to go back out there. Did he play week nine too? Not according to the snap counts that I'm looking at.

Starting point is 00:27:30 No snaps in week nine. Oh, well, there's the buy in there then. There's something. There wasn't buy in there. Yep. But we haven't seen him for a while. If he does play again this season, then all I'm saying is hopefully that injury is better because it wasn't great the last

Starting point is 00:27:49 time he was out there. But if he is better and can be something close to himself, 80% of himself, 85% of himself. That's better than what they haven't left tackle right now. And this is against the Broncos team with a well-rounded pass rush this week. and obviously against the Steelers, we know they've got a couple of good edge rushers there in week 18, depending on what's going on by then. And so between him and Amarius Mims, having those guys to tackle versus the alternative,

Starting point is 00:28:18 a couple of backups, a couple of fringe players, and it wasn't great for the tackles against the Browns. Neither of them had a very nice time. That would be a significant upgrade for a Bengals offensive line that could use a significant upgrade right about now that has had injuries pile up at the tackle position at this point. And yeah, that would be a shot in the arm down the stretch for an offense. It has still been producing. It's still been moving the ball. It's still been doing good things.

Starting point is 00:28:46 But again, the challenge in these last two weeks is more significant, I think, than they've seen in the last three. Yeah. And Orlando is, like I said, I don't think he'll be 100%. So the question will be how, what percentage is he? is he 80 like you said if so i i think that's your your best option if he's 50 well then that i don't think they'll ask him to play and i don't think he will play so it's that one's tough the amarius one on a short week is is rough you know you certainly hope that he can get the treatment and all of those things he's young and i can get out there and play a full full allotment of snaps

Starting point is 00:29:24 yeah i was thinking you were the the the week eight game against philly i was thinking that that was week nine because he left the week seven game against the browns and then played the following week against the eagles i'm talking about Orlando brown junior here and then missed three games came back for the Steelers and then has missed the past three games as well yeah yeah getting those guys back uh playing healthy would obviously be awesome i don't think either guy would be 100 percent and i think here we're feeling a little bit that that flex of the broncos chargers into that thursday night game and the bengals out of it to sunday we're feeling it on both sides on the one hand hand, the advantage that the Bengals got was the Denver had to play a road Thursday night game

Starting point is 00:30:05 that they were unlikely to win. They didn't win it. But that rest advantage flipped. And now we're on the other side of that where the Bengals now have a short week, the Broncos coming off a mini buy. And so that, in addition to the Steelers having a mini buy for week 18 is a quirk of the schedule that certainly is not something that has gone in the Bengals favor, something that we talked about back when the schedule came out, the rest disparities.

Starting point is 00:30:29 and they've only gotten worse, I think, because of flexes late in the season here that have affected the Bengals schedule. Yeah, they might have. I would say avoiding Cleveland, though, on a short week that helped Joe, like Joe's knee. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:45 It's kind of, you know, that's... I was just talking strictly about, like, the rest disparity numbers are skewed against the Bengals with the flexes late in the season and Pittsburgh playing the Christmas game this week, which is crazy that they're playing a game. what in two days from when we're recording this. Yeah, Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:31:04 Can I pay attention to that game? Yeah. Can you give me a ghost dealers, Jake? Nope. I will. You're not, right? I mean, I want to. I mean, I can think it on Wednesday during the game,

Starting point is 00:31:16 but I cannot say it today on Monday. Like those two words in sequence, can't do it. That's fair. I get that. I'm not going to push you on that one. Thank you. That's going to do it for this episode. of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.

Starting point is 00:31:31 The next episode you will hear from us will be the crossover. We'll have a game preview for you later in the week as well. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hoodey and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Updating the Cincinnati Bengals' playoff outlook, and what we're buying on defense after 3 straight wins

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