Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - What can the Cincinnati Bengals learn down the stretch? Who has the most to prove?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Winning out is an ideal finish to the season for the Cincinnati Bengals, but if they don't do that, or even if they do, what do we need to learn about this team down the home stretch? You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liskow. He's your host, James Rapine. We are Locked on Bengals here on the Lockdown Podcast. We're covering your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Welcome back to the everydayers out there. Shout out to all of you who make us your first list. We so appreciate each of you who makes lockdown Bengals part of your daily routine. And welcome into the new listeners who are looking to stay up to date on all things Bengals, the rest of this season and into the off season where we will have you covered, of course, throughout, well, the whole calendar year, quite frankly, here on lockdown Bengals. Today's show is sponsored by Fandle, new customers can place a $5 bet, and if you win that $5 bet, you will get $150 in bonus bets.

Starting point is 00:01:12 Again, if you win that first $5 bet, you can check it out at fandle.com to get started. James, you're wearing sunglasses inside. Is there a thematic reason for that? What's going on? Oh, well, they happen to be on my desk, and I was like, ah, let me throw them on. But there could be a thematic reason. It's tunnel vision to 6 and 0. Can the Bengals do it, right?

Starting point is 00:01:35 But no, no real thematic reason for it today. You might have to block out the noise if you're Evan McPherson, huh, since I went at him a little bit. Something like that. Something like that. Put your blinders on. We will get to what we have to learn about this team the rest of the season. Some of the players with the most approved,

Starting point is 00:01:57 some of the answers that are most important to figuring out what this team should be doing in the off season. Before we get there, the Bengals were back in the, the building on Monday. We heard from Zach Taylor. We heard from some players, including Evan McPherson. And we got some updates there and wasn't a ton of information. And Zach Taylor preferring to wait until Wednesday to get to some of the other injuries. But Taylor did note that Sheldon Rankins, I don't know if it's the same illness or a different illness. He's dealing with an infection. He wasn't out there on Monday as a team reconvened.

Starting point is 00:02:33 Orlando Brown was out there, but it's hard to say what the degree of his participation was. And Taylor said it's too early in the week to get into the status for the Bengals left tackle. Yeah, so a couple of things. One, I think the Rankin's illness, it is the same illness. I was told it was pretty serious fading back to that Chargers game. Two, I'm not sure we're going to know about Orlando Brown Jr. until Friday. this could go into Saturday. And I do wonder what it's like, because this feels like, and this is just a feeling,

Starting point is 00:03:12 that it's going to linger, that whatever this is, because remember it was the calf and then the knee, and now it's listed as knee fibula. And it's just, it seems like a weird injury, Jake. So I wonder what the plan will be for Orlando if they lose this game. and they fall to four and eight, and they clearly aren't making the playoffs. Like, it's, it's just something I,

Starting point is 00:03:37 you say out loud, it's like, all right, well, that is your left tackle. It's going to be your left tackle moving forward. That certainly you're starting left tackle in 2025. You start to have that conversation, I think, if they lose Sunday,

Starting point is 00:03:48 which is why I wonder if Orlando, and I do think he's doing everything he can to return, but if they say, all right, Orlando, if you can go, let's go, because this is the do or die And you could have said that with the Chargers game,

Starting point is 00:04:02 but it really is now with this Steelers game where it's like, all right, the entire mentality of the team probably changes if they fall to four and eight. Well, and you also consider, can you make the injury worse? Remember that when he aggravated the injury was against Philly back in week eight,

Starting point is 00:04:21 he tried to go the very next week, and it got worse. I don't know if it got worse. Or you decided he couldn't play with it, play through it. It feels worse because we haven't seen him again. I think he thought he could. And again, this is semi-speculation here.

Starting point is 00:04:39 But I think he thought he could go. And then it's like, oh, and they dialed it way back. And they're hoping he can return, of course. There's a reason he's not on injured reserve. So we'll see. I guess the point I'm trying to make either way, maybe we don't know if he actually aggravated it. Maybe we don't know if the injury actually became worse.

Starting point is 00:04:55 Maybe he just decided that it was too much to play with in that game. But if there is a risk of it getting, worse. That's where I still wouldn't want to push it. I know this is a very important game. I just wouldn't want to risk something long-term happening to Orlando Brown because he still is your left tackle for the next couple of years. And when he's been healthy this year, he's been really good. And they've been a little bit unlucky with him, right? He was a model of consistency. Didn't miss time and he had to play through injury last year. And this is the first year that he's missed significant time like this in the NFL.

Starting point is 00:05:30 And with that in mind, I would want to make sure he's as healthy as possible for the long term. And this ties into the theme of the episode today and balancing the short-term goals for this year versus what they need to learn in the long-term and finding where those areas overlap and you can kind of get both. And with Orlando Brown in particular, that's a very important piece for your future. Yeah. I think in the Bengals specifically, and some teams don't.

Starting point is 00:05:58 don't do a good job of this, but the Bengals, the front office and the coaching staff, the front office lets the coaching staff do their job, the coaches let the front office do their job. And I think they do a good job of that. But if the Bengals lose Sunday, I don't really see a reason why Orlando should play moving forward. Like it just, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. Because I don't think he's just going to suddenly wake up Monday and be 100%. So you just got say it out loud. Franchise left tackle, certainly part of your future, coming off of when he's been healthy this year, his best season, I would say certainly better than last year. So more than capable. So he doesn't really have anything to prove. We're going to talk about a lot of guys in

Starting point is 00:06:43 this episode that have something to prove. The last thing you want is Orlando Brown Jr. having to rehab more than he might have to because of this injury in the off season or to go through whatever kind of recovery that he would have to go through when you're four and eight and so that's where i look when i want to talk about things that i'm looking for they fall to four and eight duke tobin mike brown katy tro whoever says hey zach we're shutting Orlando down he's he's a big part of our future four and eight sorry and at the same time that might make the coaches mad because they are trying to win games they are trying to rebound i'm sure i'm sure i'm I'm certain Zach doesn't want to have a losing season this year.

Starting point is 00:07:28 Even last year when Joe went down, they found a way to have a winning season. And if they fall Sunday, I think a losing season is certainly pretty likely. Yeah. And that's where you have to make some of those hard decisions. The other injury notes from Monday, really the only one that is terribly significant, Charlie Jones still not out there on Monday. So still have some questions specifically for that return job where Charlie, Jones has shown that he is a good returner and they don't really have great options besides,

Starting point is 00:07:59 especially with Chase Brown in the suddenly the workhorse running back role. He's certainly not back there on kick returns and he wasn't returning punts anyway. So some questions remain at returner with Charlie Jones not back on Monday. We'll see what's going on with these guys the rest of the week when we get some injury report kind of practices starting on Wednesday. The other note, the ping pong tables are back. and Josh Newton does not play ping pong he plays cornerback I love Josh's mentality and approach and Jay Morrison wrote a great thing on it I wasn't there Monday full disclosure but I was like oh like I love this and I've talked with Josh a ton so I love that one two and this is kind

Starting point is 00:08:48 of takey I know a lot of people are like oh yeah the camaraderie ping pong It feels like a desperate attempt to recapture the magic. I don't know. It's just like, okay, ping pong tables are back in the locker room. Like, is that going to help them make tackles and be in the right spot and not give up deep balls and protect Joe and open up running lanes and all the things that we want them to do? I mean, obviously, right?

Starting point is 00:09:15 That's how it works. You go to Bengal social media and the ping pong tables mean the Bengals are back, baby. here here's my thing is like maybe just like they shouldn't have taken him and take him out in the first place I don't know I don't know who made yeah I don't know who made that decision I like Katie was the or not Katie Elizabeth was the one that announced it mm-hmm but I don't think Elizabeth made the call no I don't think that was it at all I think there was someone that was like yeah we don't need them this year maybe that is it maybe that does give them their superpower by the way if it does great great hopefully it does but uh

Starting point is 00:09:53 I do like that Josh Newton plays DB, not ping pong. I guess that's how we'll know is, depending on how Josh Newton plays versus the rest of the team. Because Josh has been playing ping pong. Anyway, Geno Stone takes such better angles. Now that he is on the ping pong table working on his angles, it's going to be great.

Starting point is 00:10:12 Let's get into who has the most approved. What answers we're looking for about this team down the stretch coming up next? This episode of Lockdown Bengals is sponsored by prize picks. prize picks is daily fantasy done right. It makes daily fantasy sports accessible to everyone. All you have to do with prize picks is you're going to pick more or less on at least two players in their projections with prize picks for a shot to win up to 100 times your money. And it's really so simple. Maybe it's Joe Burrow passing yards.

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Starting point is 00:12:54 We've talked about several of them. Several of them are even veterans. And it's not just veterans. There's obviously a bunch of young guys on this team that they need to get some answers about. They've lost some of the players that we were hoping to get some answers about down the stretch. And they've had injuries certainly as well.

Starting point is 00:13:10 But James, when you think about what answers you're looking for for this team down the stretch, what is the first thing that pops into your mind when I say, you know, we got six games left for the Bengals. What do you want to see? what do you need to learn? What's the long-term answer that's the most important for you this year?

Starting point is 00:13:27 I need to learn if Jermaine Burton is a receiver that you can even semi-bank on as being a contributor next year. And I think that's such a need. One, it's a key

Starting point is 00:13:45 if they're going to go six and oh, I think they're going to need a guy like Jermaine or someone like that to step up. Two, with T. Higgins, his future, receiver is going to be near the top, if not at the top, of the list of offseason needs, assuming T. Higgins signs elsewhere. So with that being said, is Germain a piece you can use?

Starting point is 00:14:06 Is he not? He's got three years left on his rookie deal after this year. And the reason I lead off with him and not a Cam Taylor Britt and not some of these other guys is it's like, all right, well, at least at corner, you're going to be talking about DJ Turner on a rookie deal. Daxhill in the final year of his deal. And there are bodies there. At receiver, I think we realize that Andre Yosebosch is not going to be your wide receiver

Starting point is 00:14:31 two. And outside of that, what else is there outside of Jamar and T? And so if T's gone, the Jermaine Burton role is interesting. And I'm not even saying, can he prove that he can be wide receiver two going in the next year. I think that that's kind of insane to even speculate about because it's pretty unrealistic. But can he show, hey, I can be a wide receiver three. I can be your deep threat next year. I can help you.

Starting point is 00:15:01 That's what I need to see over the final six weeks. And I do wonder if he's going to get enough chances, earn those chances to prove it. But then when he does get those chances, a deep ball that I think he should have caught against the chargers. when he just takes an awful route to the football and doesn't run where I think he should have ran. We've seen that a few times, and that's supposed to be a specialty. So Jermaine Burton is at probably the top of my list outside of Orlando Brown Jr. and possibly shutting him down if they lose Sunday. And I think less debatably getting both hands up to try to catch a ball on the end zone against the trip.

Starting point is 00:15:39 Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. The deep ball is like maybe they're bad routes. Maybe he's in the wrong place on the field. Probably. It's easy to speculate, right? But we don't know exactly on that one in the end zone. That one's pretty clear cut. You got to go up. And it was a got to have it play and you don't put two hands up. That's receiver 101, you know? The thing with Jermain Burton that I think is is interesting down the stretch is, does he earn the opportunities? One. So just monitoring his snap counts down the stretch and seeing what the rotation is. If T. Higgins and Jamar Chase are healthy for the rest of the season,

Starting point is 00:16:15 what does the rotation look like between Jermann and Andre Yosovash? Because those are going to be the two guys primarily. You might see like two or three stats from Trent Nervin a game because the Bengals can't seem to quit him. Isaiah Williams. Come on, baby. Yeah, we'll see if he can get active, right? I know, I know. The Germain Burton question is, one, can you do enough to get those opportunities in the first place?

Starting point is 00:16:39 So like I said, just from a snap count perspective, I think, Jermaine Burton's activity level is interesting to me the rest of the rest of the season. But beyond that, to show that he can be a significant part of this offense going forward, to show that he can be a player that you will grow to be able to rely on, he needs to be able to convert on the field as well. And so does a route tree grow down the stretch? Or is he doing the same thing? And is he running the same kinds of routes? We've seen him do some different things. It's not only been go balls and the vertical

Starting point is 00:17:08 route tree, but can you get a little bit more efficient than, well, actually, a lot more efficient than your, let's see, 28% catch rate on 14 targets. He's got four of the 14 passes thrown to him. And given some of those have been deep balls, you should expect a lower number here for Jermaine Burton, but it shouldn't be that low. That's a pretty bad clip. And so can you see some improvements in terms of converting your opportunities into catches, into plays? And really, outside of that on the offense, what else is there that we're looking for? I mean, we kind of know what this offense is.

Starting point is 00:17:43 They need help on the interior offensive line. They're going to need some support at tight end where Drew Sample probably isn't a huge part of the team's future. We'll see if Mike Keseki is back in the future or not. Eric, all probably is, but coming off another ACL, you're going to need support at tight end. You know you've got Jamar Chase. You know you've got Chase Brown.

Starting point is 00:18:02 You probably need some depth. Well, at running back, you definitely need some at Widerstead. as well as we're talking about. But the big variable is, is Remain Burton a big part of your future plans or not? The only other question I would ask on offense is, do we need to see Matt Lee? And if they lose, if they eliminate themselves from the playoffs by not winning out, essentially, that's where my calls for Matt Lee will start to grow a little bit louder. I understand not wanting to pull your veterans because you don't know, maybe it is worse.

Starting point is 00:18:32 Maybe Matt Lee just isn't ready. but if there's nothing else to play for in terms of playoffs, that's where I will start to talk about Matt Lee as well as the only other topic on offense that I think I would be wondering about. Maybe Tanner McLaughlin as well if we're really digging, but that's it. Yeah, I think for sure Matt Lee, and you could discuss a bunch of different scenarios there. The other one, and by the time you hear this or view this, we're going to know if they get him or not. But let's be honest, Jake. They should claim Greg Dulcich.

Starting point is 00:19:07 Oh, yes. I mean, no brainer. I don't say this often either, but I was like, big yes. Yeah, like the tight end room, fine. Like Cam Grandy, you use him as a blocker, Tanner McLaughlin, you drafted him. I don't care. Greg Dolsich could be a guy that could help you long term. And so, who knows?

Starting point is 00:19:26 That's all I'll spend on it. But I figured we should mention it. Waiver claims I'll be out later this afternoon. We're recording this around 1 p.m. Eastern time. But yeah, I think that would be the one that I'd be interested in. Outside of that, Matt Lee, Jermaine Burton, and the defense. And boy, oh, boy, is there a lot. Take, let's go on the defense.

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Starting point is 00:21:10 A lot of it comes down to the defensive side of the ball where your best player is Trey Hendrickson, who had a trade demand last year, certainly will revisit his contract this year. But that's not a question that we necessarily have done the stretch. The questions are looking for answers, looking for pieces that can be part of this team going forward. We're looking for who has the most to prove is really the way that you can frame it. And there's a big question for the entire defensive coaching staff. We've talked about that quite a bit. They all need to show that they can develop players or they can put players in the right place to succeed. And the clock is very rapidly ticking for that staff in our estimation.

Starting point is 00:21:52 Beyond that, you look at players. Even if they replace the coaching staff, Camp Taylor-Brit's going to be part of this team next year. And that is, I think, the big one, that is where you start. And then I think you get to some pieces in the defensive line. You can talk about Josh Newton here as well. Is there any place where you would start this question other than Cam Taylor Britt, James? No, it is Cam Taylor Britt. And you know what it is?

Starting point is 00:22:16 It's not just him proving it to us. This is an audition for the next staff, the defensive staff, if something does happen. And I'm not saying it's going to happen. but if something does happen, you better believe that staff is going to see Cam Taylor Britt leave Quentin Johnston wide open, a guy who couldn't catch a pass against the Ravens.

Starting point is 00:22:39 It was Drop City, but you left him so open that he was able to catch it last week in a crucial moment against the Chargers. So those plays that he's had, those breakdowns, they're ugly. And if a new defensive staff is coming in, and they see all of that, and it just continues to be bad film, bad film, bad film.

Starting point is 00:22:58 We see guys get traded all. Greg Dolcich is an example of this. Is new regime comes in, doesn't work out, they're not as committed to them. Now there's injuries with Greg. But the point is, is if a new defensive coordinator is here, and I'm not saying it's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:23:12 But if it does, you want to have six good games if you're Cam Taylor Britt, showing that you can still play at a high level because you're going to have an opportunity to start next year if you play well down the stretch here. I know that sounds wild to people, but he will.

Starting point is 00:23:26 I'll have a chance to compete for that. But I think that's what I'm looking for. And he has every reason in the world to show that. So we'll see if he can do it because obviously his play has just fallen off a cliff this year. And the other one, just since we're talking cornerback-wise, is just Marco Wilson. Obviously, we've talked about Josh Nint a few times, seeing how he does as a starter. But Marco Wilson, is he anything? Can he contribute?

Starting point is 00:23:53 We'll see. but I'll be eyeing those three guys certainly starting on Sunday against the Steelers. Yeah, I don't have a ton of interest, I guess. I mean, we'll see if Marco, Marco can, Markle Wilson can surprise. Very athletic player has bounced around in the NFL. But on the topic of Can Taylor Britt, the Bengals have given up, according to PFF, 19 passing touchdowns that they've charted responsibility to an individual player for this year. there are three Bengals that have given up more than one.

Starting point is 00:24:27 Cam Taylor Britt has given up nine passing touchdowns, according to PFF charting this year. Out of 19. The next highest on the team, Gino Stone and Logan Wilson both charted with two. That's crazy. Yeah. It is.

Starting point is 00:24:43 It's actually pretty insane. And it's not just that. He's giving up catches at a higher rate than he has in the past. He's giving up more yards per catch than he has in the past. Like all of the statistic measures back up the eye test for Camp Taylor-Brit. It's just been a disaster season for a guy that had the highest expectations, I think, in terms of talking about CB1, talking about Pro Bowl potential for Camp Taylor-Brit this offseason. And he's not there.

Starting point is 00:25:11 Can he get back to a level where you can have some confidence? Can he rebuild his own confidence? Can he be in the right place at the right time? Just play a more consistent brand of football. that's a massive question for a second round pick that the Bengals traded up for a couple of years ago. And that's the theme when you look at the defensive side of the ball to me. Again, there are veterans. I think you talk about the free agent acquisitions.

Starting point is 00:25:35 You talk about Gino's saying, you talk about Shelton Mankins. You want to see more from those guys down the stretch because right now they're on the chopping block and potential cap casualties in the offseason if they don't step up their level of play, especially if they bring in a new defensive coaching staff, thinking about Gino Stone. I think they're both long gone if that happens, unless they play better. I mean,

Starting point is 00:25:57 they both have to play better. Yeah, no, I agree. I think in my head, I think that the current staff might have more loyalty to Gino Stone is my thought process there than Sheldonan's even, because we've heard Lou say that he thinks Gino Stone just played his best game

Starting point is 00:26:12 and stuff like that. And so maybe they don't want to go through bringing in new safeties again, if it's the same staff. If it's a new staff, I think both are almost certainly cut. The only complication to any of this is that the Bengals could take an Eagles-like approach and got one side of the ball and keep one side of the ball with Zach Taylor being the head coach if they choose to go that direction. But anyway, not to get too far down that rabbit hole, there are those veterans.

Starting point is 00:26:36 But beyond that, it's the draft picks, the recent draft picks, the defensive linemen, Miles Murphy, can he get onto the field more? Can he show some development in terms of how? Pass rush moves and past rush prowess converting the traits into production. Can you get a little bit more out of Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson down the stretch? Those young players, what can they show you down the stretch in terms of showing how they should be considered for part of this team's seizure? And we're talking about a very limited opportunity here. Six games coming off the by.

Starting point is 00:27:09 That's not a whole lot of time for them to show much. But if they can get a couple of these guys to answer in the positive, and show that they can be something for you in the future, that can really help shape your off-season plans. Yeah, you need an edge player, you need a defensive player, you need both to step up. You need one of these corners to emerge, where you're like, oh, well, they can be a big part of the future.

Starting point is 00:27:34 And it goes hand in hand with possibly winning these games. And we'll see there. The other one is Evan McPherson. Yes. He has a ton to prove, ton to prove, ton to show. and we'll see I feel like it's like man

Starting point is 00:27:51 I've been as bullish on Evan as I think anyone besides maybe his wife right or his family and so for for him to struggle like he has I will say and again I wasn't there Monday but he seemed like the same guy to me

Starting point is 00:28:07 answering questions with the little you know smile and all of those things the same guy that talked after the divisional round in 2020 21 after the game winning kick against the Titans where Joe Burrell called him unbelievable. Like he still feels like that guy. I don't think he's mentally broken, but he's got to make kicks. And it's that simple.

Starting point is 00:28:28 And that'll be one of those things that I think everyone's holding their breath for every time he goes out there to attempt to kick moving forward. And that's just how it's been this year. That's a very big one. It really is. Considering the money they just paid him and everything, who would have thought you'd be sitting here talking about the question? they would have to answer in a season going astray that Evan McPherson will be on the list and we wouldn't be even really mentioning a punter at all given their punter tribulations in recent years. I guess the Bengals can only have one good kicking specialist at a time.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Maybe they can change that down the stretch. That's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We'll be back with a focus on the Steelers game as we prepare to transition our focus back to the football games. The Bengals will play the rest of the season. here on Lockdown Bengals. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hoodei and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - What can the Cincinnati Bengals learn down the stretch? Who has the most to prove?

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