Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Why the Bengals Are PERFECTLY Positioned to Lock Down Their Core This Offseason

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Cincinnati Bengals have a chance to do something this off season. We've been asking them to do for years. And that's get ahead of some of these key extensions. Let's break it down. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network in the land.

Starting point is 00:00:35 He's James repeat. I'm Jake, let's go. We've been locked on Bengals here since 2016, your best one-stop shop for all the Bengals news and analysis you could possibly want. And today we dive into yet another off-season topic, and that is these extensions, the Bengals can get out ahead of. The extensions that could save the Bengals some money in the long run, provide some security, and provide some stability at some spots where they have guys worth paying, rewarding guys for the. those extensions in a way they couldn't get done early with Jemar Chase with T. Higgins, at least as early as we would have liked to have seen. Welcome back to the everydayers.

Starting point is 00:01:15 Welcome back to those of you who make Lockdown Bengals your first listen. You knew this topic was coming. And if you're not in one of those two buckets, welcome to the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hope you stay with us for what should be an interesting offseason for the Bengals that will include hopefully some extensions for guys like DJ Turner, Daxhill, maybe Chase Brown enters that conversation, certainly in the list of guys we're going to talk about today in an episode brought to you by Game Time. You can download the GameTime app, create an account, use code, lock down NFL. You get $20 off your first purchase of tickets in the Game Time app.

Starting point is 00:01:49 And James of Bengals, for the longest time, we've been asking them to just get these extensions done early. We've talked about the Eagles, getting ahead of these things, how much money it saves when you beat the market to the punch. The Bengals, on the other hand, end up reactionary a lot of the time and end up paying more as a result. And this year is another year where they've got some young guys that you could potentially save some money on if you just got out ahead of these extensions early. Yeah. And that's what's going to be interesting is do they like with Jamar, everybody said, all right, well, you have to extend him. Joe Burrow, same thing. T. Higgins, far more proven after he.

Starting point is 00:02:33 his third season, then DJ Turner, then Dax Hill after his fourth season. And so that's what I think is interesting about this is everyone, like if you go back to training camp, which was in August, everyone was talking about how DJ Turner was getting beat and getting beat and getting beat and worried about D.J. Turner and all of those things. And he doesn't start week one. And so to go from that scenario and that month plus and then not starting week one to where he is now where people are going to be. really frustrated if the Bengals don't get an extension done. One, it's a testament to how well DJ played.

Starting point is 00:03:10 Two, whatever we saw in training camp, you'd take with a grain of salt moving forward sometimes, especially with cornerbacks. And in three, I think it's deserved. He's a heck of a player. And the reason why I think that gives me confidence in investing in a guy like DJ is his mindset. is his, like he doesn't have the, the obvious physical traits of Jamar or T. And I'm comparing to those guys because those are the guys

Starting point is 00:03:41 the last time they were in this position that we looked at. Where you just see, you look at him and you're like, oh, well, that guy's a future Hall of Famer in Jamar Chase or a pro bowler at some point in T. Higgins and one of the best receivers in the league. No, Turner doesn't look that way, but you get on the field and in, and you, watch him and then you hear him. And I'll never forget when he's starting to have his coming out party and started to

Starting point is 00:04:06 play really well. I asked him about going up against D.K. Metcalf. He was like, it doesn't matter who I'm going up against. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how big they are. DJ's not a big guy. It doesn't matter about the size difference.

Starting point is 00:04:18 I got to play my game. And that continued. That was the first Steelers game. So week seven when they improved a three and four on the year. And he continued that and carried that throughout the year. And so, yeah, 25 years old, clearly ascending, clearly has the right mindset, the right attitude, the right work ethic can be one of those leaders, certainly that you build around on the defensive side. What's not to like? I would certainly consider paying DJ Turner and giving him a long-term extension to keep him around for the rest of his 20s.

Starting point is 00:04:53 Yeah, I mean, that's the opportunity here. With several of these guys we're going to talk about today is you have an opportunity to lock these guys up for their 20s, which is something. the Bengals have been confident with in the past. They've been comfortable with in the past. And DJ Turner is another one of these guys who is an elite athlete. And if you're going to draft, develop, retain, you've got to do that retain part, right? They didn't get there with some of their key guys at times in their history. And in the past, going back to the last time the Bengals had two good quarterbacks,

Starting point is 00:05:21 they picked one. Going back to the last time the Bengals had two good young players on the edge, they picked one. the salary cap environment that we're in today compared to then and getting out in front of these things early means you don't have to choose you don't have to choose until both of those guys are pending free agents and you give them the same offering and you hope that you get one of them to stick right and that's why the conversation about getting ahead of these things and saving maybe two million dollars maybe it's just two million dollars right two million dollars per year on the average annual value of these contracts.

Starting point is 00:05:57 That adds up if you do it for enough players and it helps you to keep the cost down for some of the good players on your team, which, and the reason that we talk about the Eagles all the time for this is they do all these other cap maximizing things in Philadelphia. The Bengals aren't going to do. And we're going to talk about that on another day. The unilateral right the Bengals have to restructure some of their big contracts for Joe Burrow, for Jamar Chase, for T. Higgins over the course of those contracts. and what that means for the Bengals in terms of creating cap space if they're actually willing to spend more money,

Starting point is 00:06:30 well, if you're not going to do that to the maximum degree, to the degree that the Eagles do, the Browns do, because you don't like the dead money or the potential outsized future cap hits and you don't have confidence that the cap's going to continue a trajectory for whatever reason, maybe the COVID year lives fresh in their minds where they didn't see that increase.

Starting point is 00:06:49 They don't want to be caught out in an extraordinary situation where suddenly the cap doesn't go up the way they expect it to, well, you can at least do this. You can at least save yourself some money. And I don't know if they see it this way. You can at least save yourself some money by getting ahead of the market on these extensions early because the longer you wait, the cap keeps going up, keeps going up, every position just gets paid more. Corners are going to get paid more.

Starting point is 00:07:17 And if DJ Turner, say he's worth $17 million per year today, just picking a number. That's a totally random number. say he's worth $17 million per year today on the open market. Well, in two years or next year, that's $18.5 million or $19 million, because that's the growth of the cornerback market. And even if he's the same exact caliber of player, which was a fringe all pro this year for many people who watch the game closely, his value is just going to continue to go up.

Starting point is 00:07:47 And so this is why in the past we've talked about the Bengals arguing over a dollar today to cost themselves $10 next year or whatever it is or arguing over a dime today to lose a quarter next year, whatever it is. Sometimes you just got to get these deals done early with your players that are sending that have developed. And DJ Turner certainly one of the shining examples of this, one of the opportunities they have this year to get that done for the reasons you talked about. I just wanted to rant about the big picture stuff behind it that the designify for me. Sure. And it would be that. And I think it's important. And the DJ rise is just so interesting to me. Like, how do they approach it? How does he approach it? Is it easier to get done because of that? Because it feels more Logan Wilson-y than it does to me than it does T. Higgins. And what I mean by that is just, I think a few years ago, we just all kind of assumed they would get a deal. done with Logan. Looking back, doesn't feel great, but it just felt like it. And you had this 25-year-old

Starting point is 00:08:59 corner, a position that the Bengals clearly value. They've invested a lot in, even if it isn't first-round corners over the past few years. It's been second-round corners. And in how Dax, who we're going to talk about in a second, first-round corner now, that's exactly what he is. And so I do think that there's an interesting, not dilemma here, but it'll be interesting to see what the Bengals do, how they act, because you have two guys at the same spot, both Michigan guys, both entering contract years, one on a rookie deal, one on a fifth year option. And which one is priority? Are they just both a priority? We'll get to that as we continue the conversation coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Ultimate QB.

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Starting point is 00:12:13 That's homechef.com slash locked on for 50% off your first box, free shipping, and free dessert for life. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Jake, the thing that I think is really interesting here is you have a guy in Dax Hill, who we know the front office has been bullish on for years, so much so that they picked up its fifth year option as he was recovering from the ACL and being proactive like that, doing that. And there was some risk there. But doing that, it put them in position now to have him after a breakout season under contract.

Starting point is 00:12:53 And so do they act on him first? Or DJ Turner, who was a second round pick, not a first round pick, Turner, who was following the number one receivers. But again, wasn't a starter week one versus a guy in Dax. We know the front office. First hand was bullish on. They felt like he wasn't being used properly or certainly maximized. I know other people in the building felt that way. That changed this year.

Starting point is 00:13:18 Which one do they prioritize? Do they do both at the same time? I don't know. I know they want to stay together. I talked to both at the end of the season. But I do think that that's interesting as well in how it commands value, how their agents interpret their value. And if that gets in the way, if it speeds it up, what it does to the negotiation process because you obviously want to keep both of these guys.

Starting point is 00:13:43 I honestly still have the fear that they treat this like Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph. And they only end up keeping. I mean, what are they done really to tell us that they have changed the way they would approach this? You know, can you think of like? I mean, people, they would say Jamar and T, right? But we know what went on at least to a certain degree to get T done. Yeah. I mean, there was no plan to get T done for a while.

Starting point is 00:14:09 And then it shifted, right? that they had the concerns about as an injury history and spending that much money of wide receiver and all these things. And we've seen, you're right, that is an example of a time they've gotten it done recently. They're going to do it again? I mean, I see this is, it's a different opportunity because these guys aren't pro bowlers yet. They're not all pros yet. They, if they do, if DJ Turner in particular runs it back and has another year like he

Starting point is 00:14:37 had last year where he breaks up like 20 passes, then I think he starts to get that recognition a little bit more league-wide. I talked to former guests on this show, Areef Hassan, who runs wide left, a substack, some really good writers over there, some really good football analysis over there. And they did an all-pro team this year. DJ Turner wasn't on either, but I did ask Arif, did DJ Turner get votes? And he was on a couple of their ballots.

Starting point is 00:15:02 I think they had like a seven-person panel putting together all-pro teams. And so he is starting to get that recognition like we talked about from people who really pay attention. And I know Paul Dana has been a big proponent of DJ Turner's worthiness for those honors in the public sphere as well. And among, you know, AP voters and that sort of thing. So I do think it's an interesting question as to which direction they go first. I would just do them both. This is not something that, you know, you need to pick one.

Starting point is 00:15:33 The thing that makes it interesting, though, is like you said, you have one more year of control of both of these guys. And for Dax, it's a fifth year option, which is $12.5 million. And for DJ Turner, it's the final year of his rookie contract. And you have an opportunity to get ahead of the market on both of these guys, which is why both of them should be priorities to do before they get to the combine next year. And they get to figure out what their market, you know, their agents can start to do this work this year too, obviously. But like, why wouldn't you get these done sooner than later if you're the Bengals? I can't think of a good reason not to other than.

Starting point is 00:16:08 they're so stubborn about their valuations and they want to see these guys prove it more and they might end up not bridging the gap on what the perceived value should be from both sides. Well, and from a cap space standpoint, you could lower Daxes if you wanted to. Yeah, could. I know, but like, what I'm saying is you could get both done and he lowers his cap. it DJs obviously goes up some because he's on a second round pick rookie deal yeah some but not not necessarily a ton like a couple doesn't have to and so it doesn't have to impact this year much at all from a cap standpoint obviously and which has also never been their limitation right like it's a cash

Starting point is 00:16:52 issue for them and that's that's the doubt that i will bring this up at some point like the potential risk of doing these extensions is a bengals who used it as a compound and say look at all the money we spent well this is why we're kind of setting the table for the off season here with this because no, not acceptable. I do not care. That's how you fail the offseason. Like these moves, these aren't adding anything. It doesn't add.

Starting point is 00:17:19 They're good. You need to do them. And here's why you need to do them. Because you need to have, and I'm going to go back to Duke again, last week, nearly a week ago now. What was he talking about? Well, we need leaders on defense. Thack Hill has showed you from day.

Starting point is 00:17:35 day one, how to adjust, how to deal with veterans that were knowing they were likely to sign elsewhere, having to deal with all of those things, playing multiple different spots as a rookie and then as a second year and then the injury is third year, like deal with all this adversity. DJ Turner, same thing, by example. Benched, Josh Newton started over him. That's insane. Like there's no scenario in which Josh Newton will start in his third season. He started over DJ Turner week one.

Starting point is 00:18:03 that wasn't that long ago, Jake. And so for that to be something that happened and for these guys to battle through all of that, I think it's prime, hey, you come here, you do this, you play at this level, you handle adversity when it does come, and guess what? We're going to reward you. Like, I think there are perfect examples of two guys that do lead. Dax Moore by example, I think DJ Turner by example, but is willing to talk when necessary. but yeah two guys that are really,

Starting point is 00:18:35 really likable and why wouldn't you want to build around those two? I have no idea. I would get both done. And I don't think either one is going to change, be less motivated because of their deals. I think Dax has been a pro since the moment he walked into the league. And I think D.J. Turner just continues to rise and has such a high ceiling. Well, DJ has been, he's talked about it.

Starting point is 00:18:58 He's been a captain. Is he a future captain? Very easy to see the path for DJ. Turner to be a captain on this team. This year. Yeah, I was going to say next year, 26, whatever we want to call. Yeah. For the Bengals, it's this year.

Starting point is 00:19:10 But yes. Whatever, whatever we want to call it. Yeah, I mean, very easy to see that path, though, to captaincy. And with Duke talking about their need per leaders, absolutely stands out. It's also a great example that sometimes drafting productive athletes is a good way to go. I mean, DJ Turner had awesome athletic testing. He was a little bit undersized. We've talked about that.

Starting point is 00:19:30 That still shows up in his game. the arm length stuff, the overall weight. He's a little bit small. Doesn't have that ideal length or size, but moves great and has found ways to translate being in the hip pocket to breaking up passes now. And got to the point where teams just stopped throwing out of him. Backs Hill, similarly, great athlete, good size for cornerback,

Starting point is 00:19:51 great movement ability. I mean, you want those guys on your football team that are great athletes that have proven that they can do it at the NFL level. Yeah, maybe you'd like a little. little bit of a bigger track record if you're the Bengals before you commit that money long term. But come on, what are we doing? Let's get some extensions done. A whole bunch of other candidates that Bengals could consider extending this offseason as well.

Starting point is 00:20:13 Some of those guys on rookie deals, some of them not necessarily on rookie deals. Chase Brown definitely in the conversation. We'll hit those other extension candidates to finish the show coming up next. It's time for the playoffs in the NFL. Maybe you'd like to travel to a playoff game just to remember what it's like. If you're looking for tickets for any event, whether it's an NFL playoff game, whether you're trying to visit another city for a basketball game to check out the NBA, maybe it's college tickets.

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Starting point is 00:23:17 number one sportsbook. The other extension candidates for the Bengals that are free agents in 2027. So we're talking about getting ahead of things. We're not talking about resigning Dalton Reisner today. And that might be a question that you have. We talked about Dalton Reisner a few days ago on this podcast. You can go find that episode,

Starting point is 00:23:36 So just look for the big picture of Dalton Riser on the cover. And the other key guys that I think you're talking about for 2027, I think Chase Brown is only complicated because of the position he plays. Otherwise, that's a no-brainer for the quality of a player that he is and what he can do for you as a football team, the fit, the buy-in. I think Jordan Battle is in that conversation for this front office. I think Miles Murphy starts to get interesting. He's until they pick up a fifth year option, which they probably well, I imagine. He's a free agent after 2027, but you could technically get out ahead of that now if Miles is receptive to those conversations and you believe that he's on the right path. Then there's some veterans you could talk about too.

Starting point is 00:24:23 You can talk about potentially Orlando Brown as a veteran. You could talk about Andre Yosevash back to the rookies here. You can talk about Drew Sample even, and we're not going to today. But I do think that that is something that potentially comes up for the Bengals at saw season. Ted Carras, he's under contract for a couple more years, has done a couple of the deals. Maybe he's done doing those with the Bengals, but one more year. He's got one year left.

Starting point is 00:24:48 Right, right, right. Sorry, he's a free agent in 27 like Orlando. Yeah, that's why he's looking. That's why he's on this list I'm looking at. The Orlando one's interesting. I'm going to get to Chase Brown because obviously that's the big one. But the Orlando one's interesting because his cap hit is 21, nearly $22 million.

Starting point is 00:25:05 And would they add a year to lower that? I don't know. Would he take a single year? I know he likes it in Cincinnati. I think he wanted a place to call home. So we'll see. I don't know. I don't know how it will look,

Starting point is 00:25:20 how it will work. He did play every snap for the Bengals this year. I want to point that out because he was extremely durable before he got to Cincinnati, dealt with a couple of injuries this year, back to the durability that we're used to seeing from him. That being said, the Chase Brown one is so tough to me, Jake, because I would imagine that he's going to want, I'm going to look up the contract of the guy that I believe that he will,

Starting point is 00:25:48 at like bare minimum. Yeah, I assume it's like a Karen Williams type contract minimum. That's 11 million per, double-digit millions. Do you want to go that route? Kyron Williams signed a three-year, $33 million extension in August with $23 million guaranteed. Maybe he wants more than that. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:11 I think it's interesting. What's the max you would do for him? And this is a running back debate. There's more to it that we might not get to today. But there is, regardless if we have the answer right now, and I still don't fully know how I feel about it, But for Chase Brown, to me, it is not like DJ and Dax. Like if they don't get a deal done with Chase Brown, I'm not going to be as upset given the position, given the experience, honestly,

Starting point is 00:26:40 after you extended Joe Mixon how it went. Like you see how it is with running backs. It's tough. And so Chase Brown, we may be getting the best of Chase Brown last year, this year, and the next couple, it might not be worth a three or four year extension. Yeah. And the difference between Chase Brown and Kyron Williams, who, that's a good comparison for sure, is Kyron Williams was coming off a season where he played 81% of the snaps for the Rams, when he signed that extension. In 2024, he played 81% of the Rams' offensive snaps.

Starting point is 00:27:11 Chase Brown this year in 2025 played his largest share of the Bengals' offensive snaps at 66%, which is closer to what Kyron Williams did this year. Kyron Williams, more of a bell cow from a carrying the ball point of view, has less touches in the receiving game by a significant margin than Chase Brown, but has had a lot more carries and more rushing yards and more of like the traditional running back job in LA. So maybe just looking at the snap count, maybe that brings us price down a little bit, a million dollars or so. Maybe that puts them more in the nine to ten instead of the $11 million range.

Starting point is 00:27:53 And maybe that is an okay number. Maybe you're okay with that number for a running back. The tricky thing is running back is running back is one, they don't age great. We've seen this with every single running back on second contracts outside of the few elite of the elite. And I love Chase Brown. it's probably not in that conversation of the elite of the elite. I think he's really good. I don't think he's up there, right?

Starting point is 00:28:22 I don't think that's a controversial thing to say. No, he's not Jemir Gibbs. Like, let's be honest. I'm just using Jemir because he was in that draft class. He's not B. John Robinson. He's still very good. There's a difference, though. He's good, but he's not the guy that you're, you know, shaping your offense around.

Starting point is 00:28:36 He's not the identity of your offense. And the biggest value that he has of the Bengals is that he can be a three-down player, but they've obviously also shown you with Samajai Pee. He reminds presence that they really value that other style of back on third downs and in certain situations as well. And you look at the guys, this will be interesting free agent class at running back. Kenneth Gainwell, Brice Hall, Kenneth Walker. But I mentioned Kenneth Gainwell first because he's an underappreciated guy out there that

Starting point is 00:29:03 could cash in for the first time. He's 27. But Bruce Hall, J.K. Dobbins, Kenneth Walker, those guys are all free agents as well. Travis Etienne, free agent. So some running back said it'll what did I say at TN? I didn't say ETN no you said et. Yeah, I know I know I know I know you know I just yeah it's offseason names baby.

Starting point is 00:29:30 Yeah, it's time. You're gonna call him Breece fall soon. You just about the. Breeze ball, Breeze ball, Burris, you do a few different ones. I'm just, we, I don't know, man. What do you think? Do you think the Bengals are feeling the Joe Mixing conclusion and don't want to go that route with Chase Fran? Do you think that the person, because like totally different.

Starting point is 00:29:52 Here's the other thing. They're spending a lot on offense. Yeah. Like they tell you how much they're spending on offense. And so I do wonder, it's like, okay, well, if you're going to spend on Dalton and then are you going to spend on Chase? And then what? Then are you not spending on Orlando? Like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:30:09 I don't know what that is. And there are going to be a lot of people that say, hell, yeah, let Orlando walk, like, fine. but then you're spending on a Marius next year, just to be clear. Well, they are. Yeah, I mean, that's going to be a guy next year when we have this conversation. Yeah, pay him Marius as soon as you can. Oh, yeah, it's going to be fifth year option, pay him. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:26 So it's not like you're going to stop spending. And then a year later, if Dylan Fairchild continues, it's going to be the same thing. And, you know, it's never ending. And so when you draft well, and by the way, we just hit on some of the, their hits and that's great that we're having these conversations. The Chase Brown one is just going to be interesting. And I hope they can find common ground that makes sense for both sides. If not, would I prioritize both DJ and Dax over Chase Brown?

Starting point is 00:31:00 I would. I absolutely would. I think it's harder to find. And I also say that knowing what could potentially be in this draft class, what could potentially be in next year's draft class. I don't even have to look. I know that there will be running backs that are capable. And that doesn't mean you address it in the sixth round and hope.

Starting point is 00:31:21 You got to have real guys, and he has real value to this offense. But yeah, it's one of those things. It's a delicate balance. Hopefully they can find common ground, and it doesn't matter. And you're not handcuffed to bad money down the line. But finding that common ground, I think, is going to be tough. the other thing that comes to mind just related to the Trey Hendrickson conversation

Starting point is 00:31:46 that we finished with when we were talking about him recently get that pick back for Trey Hendrickson maybe it's a fourth round pick maybe that's where you find your running back I don't know maybe you need to take a day two swing again the Bengals used to love taking day two swings on running back now is this the year for that is this is that where the strength

Starting point is 00:32:02 of the class is in the second round I don't know we'll find out but that is a conversation trying to trap me yeah you're trying to trap me and I'm not going to get it. Look, not at the 32 minute mark. I'm just trying to get me today on the Mackay Lemon train. All right.

Starting point is 00:32:18 We got to get past the name, James. No comment. What's that up there? Not on January 15th, my friend. Not happening. There are obviously some other extension candidates that we did not get to today that can be topics or conversation another day.

Starting point is 00:32:35 At some point, we're probably going to talk about every single position and every single player on this team in the offseason. and what the future holds of those positions. Gino's Stone. I don't want to do that one, James. Gino Stone. Come on.

Starting point is 00:32:48 Jake Browning. Oh, man. We were so close. We were so close. We were so close to ending on just like a usual, normal, not upsetting our listeners, James. That's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hope you're laughing at James right now. I hope, sincerely, that you're laughing and not just.

Starting point is 00:33:11 angry until next time thanks for listening to this episode of the lockdown bengals podcast whodeh and have a good

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Why the Bengals Are PERFECTLY Positioned to Lock Down Their Core This Offseason

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