Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Why the Bengals should be big fish hunting at defensive coordinator

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

The Cincinnati Bengals do not appear to be interested in big-name defensive coordinator candidates like Robert Saleh or Dennis Allen. So, Jake Liscow and James Rapien break down why they should be, and whether they're pulling a "same ol' Bengals" in the defensive coordinator search in a year where we're asking them to do what it takes to right the ship and be a winning organization. Join the Locked On Bengals Insider Community! https://joinsubtext.com/lockedonbengalsFind and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bengals-daily-podcast-on-the-cincinnati-bengals/id1159723162Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0lh0WmQl5fJVgtajsGoogle Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbG9ja2Vkb25iZW5nYWxz?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwio_sXtj8nuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAgStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-bengalsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Turbo TaxReady for stress-free taxes and the most money back, guaranteed? Head over to TurboTax.com today and get matched with your Expert—who’s ready to take your taxes off your plate, so you can focus on your day.LinkedInLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.PrizePicksDownload the app and use code lockedonnfl to win $50 instantly when you play $5. You don't even need to win to receive your $50 bonus, it's guaranteed! Prizepicks. Run Your Game.Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LOCKEDONNFLGametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms Apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelYou can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Are the Cincinnati Bengals handicapping their own defensive coordinator search? Let's break it down. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked On Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rupin. We are locked on Bengals as they continue their defensive coordinator search.

we're on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Welcome back to everyone who makes Lockdown Bengals, part of their everyday routine, the everydayers out there. We appreciate all of you very, very much for your continued support of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. And all of you out there who make us your first listen, well, that's a great habit to have as well. If you're new to the show, you can join those clubs.

You can hit that subscribe button, make sure you don't miss an episode, as we'll keep you update on everything going on with the Bengals throughout this off season as they try to bounce back from a very big. very disappointing, 2024. Today's episode brought to you by prize picks where you can use code locked on NFL to get $50 instantly when you make your first $5 play. And James, the question that we will discuss today and answer is, are the Bengals doing their same old Bengals thing when it comes to this defensive coordinator search?

And what do I mean by that? I mean, are they willing to pay to swim in the waters with the big fish? and it's it's so interesting because weeks ago the Tennessee game i think it was the tennessee game going into that game i remember talking to multiple people about the idea that oh well who could they get defensive coordinator wise if they go that route and that was fresh off of the just a few weeks after rather the uh the Steelers game and it felt like that could certainly be the case blue could be gone in that scenario so you're having conversation And all these guys get brought up, you know, the Dennis Islands of the world, the Brandon Staley's of the world, the Robert Salas of the world.

And I think that's the one that everyone is is on more than others, I would say, our everydayers are probably thinking about Bob Sala more than they would care to admit over the past 48 hours or so. And it's because it's, at least on paper, it seems like an obvious, you at least pick up the phone and make the call. and maybe they have. It just doesn't feel based on what I've heard like they have. And so it's like, all right, well, to your point,

are they bengelsing this? Is this, I've heard the, oh, Zach is doing this because he doesn't want the coach in waiting to be, or his replacement to be on staff or whatever. I don't think it's that and we could get into that. But I do wonder,

like if this cycle happens, if they make a hire, and we don't hear Robert Sala's name at all connected to the Bengals. And up to this point, we haven't. And there's been reports about him being connected to San Francisco and getting some head coaching interviews and all of those things. If this job is so appealing and they're ready-made Super Bowl contenders if they get the right defensive coordinator here, well, why wouldn't Robert Sala be interested? So I think that's where a lot of people are. and if they go in the coaching, the college ranks and get a guy,

and it's not someone that you necessarily know, and it's not one of these big names, I think it's going to feel like a letdown, even if it is a good fit. Yeah, I think there are going to be a lot of candidates for this job that are going to be guys that Bengals fans aren't terribly familiar with, especially those aren't hardcore football fans following assistants, if they're up-and-coming assistants elsewhere in the league,

and it's not Jim Leonard, which is a name that everyone's going to have heard about by the time the Bengals make their DC higher. If it's not, even Al Golden, who I think Bengals fans certainly know, even though you might have different feelings about Al Golden than Jim Leonard or whatever it may be, there are going to be a lot of names that come up that you're not familiar with, even if it was the Raiders and Patriots former defensive coordinators. Maybe you didn't know who those guys were before you listened to yesterday's episode of the Locktime Bengals podcast as a Bengals went sniffing around the Belichick coaching tree a little bit.

But the thing that's interesting to me about this, James, that you mentioned in your article on Cincinnati Bengals on SI is the money issue here, where top defensive coordinators in the NFL, you wrote about this and I'll let you talk about it, are going to make $4 to $4.5 million a year. And the Bengals might be looking more in the $1.5 million a year range, which is what we think is roughly what Luana Ruma was making. with the team and that budgetary aspect the financial constraint is a part about this that feels very aphoristic or trite criticism of Bengals ask like they're not going to go pay for the big thing even though this is where they are and this is what we've been asking them to do is recognize the situation that you're in and what you have with Joe Burrow and the these key pieces and do what it takes to take the next step. And reading what you wrote anyway, it feels like,

oh, no, we're going to do our thing. We're going to try to find the right fit at the right price. Yeah, I have those things. Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off there. Yeah, as far as candidates go, let's just start there because I do want to get into the budget stuff. I think everyone has thought about one of these bigger names that you're aware of. And Lou, and it was just a simple Google search, right?

It's not like I snuck into Paycorst Stadium and grabbed Lou's contract and looked at it. So maybe the $1.5 million he was reportedly making is off, right? But they're going to have to give whoever they hire more than what Lou's making if he was making 1.5. Like a lot of these college defensive coordinators are making 1.8, 1.9. And so the Bengals may be saying, hey, we're paying Lou to not coach for us next year. We don't know if Zach is going to write the ship with this coaching reset. So it's not like we're extending him. He's making reportedly 4.5.

So, all right, Zach, go get someone at 2.5. And Robert Sala, Dennis Allen, I'm sure Brandon Staley, I'm sure they want three, three and a half, four. If you're solid, you probably want four or four and a half. I'm not sure Dennis Allen is held as highly in league circles. It doesn't feel that way, I've asked around a little bit just to see. And I don't think that's necessarily just a Bengals thing either. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think, not that he won't be a defensive coordinator. I just think Robert Sala is just held in much higher regard.

So fans that are big Sala fans, I think the NFL agrees. That's why he's going to get some head coaching interviews. Josina Anderson's been on this. but yeah, I think it's one of those things where if you're the Bengals, you're like, all right, well, if Zach's making four or five, you're not going to give his defensive coordinator the same money. And that does make sense from a logic standpoint. Zach is the boss, one of his employees, someone that's working for him, isn't going to make the same amount at the same time.

Fans don't care about that. And they shouldn't. And we shouldn't. the bottom line is, is getting the best coach you can get. And so that's the challenge, I think, for Zach. That's the challenge for this organization. The moment you make the decision to move on from Luanarumo, if you're not going big fish hunting,

which is the first thing I would have done, I think it's the first thing a lot of people would have done. If you're not going to swim in those waters, to fish in that pond, and you're going to this reserve pond, it's going to be that much harder to get a better defensive coordinator than Luanarumo. And you should be willing to pay your defensive coordinator more if Zach Taylor is your head coach

because your defensive coordinator in Cincinnati is essentially running half your team. Zach Taylor is not very involved with the defense, especially on a day-to-day in season. Right. So to me, you should be willing to pay more there because of the structure that you have, at least as we understand it. Maybe I don't know. Maybe Zach's run a defensive meeting. I don't know about, right?

But we're pretty sure that Zach's spending his time with the offense, especially in season. And the one other note that I wanted to throw out there, just talking about the money aspect here and some of the college coordinators, Al Golden reportedly is making $2 million a year. So even if they wanted to go get Al Golden, they would probably need to, unless he really doesn't want to deal with NIL and the transfer portal and all that stuff, which...

Two and a half, probably? You probably got to go over that number. Yeah. Right. So you're talking four years, minimum four years, 10 million bucks. This is, it's good. Let's discuss this part of it because let's just say that's it for whoever. If you're going four years, 10 million. And it's not our money. If we don't care. So that's not what this is. But I am going to bring up a point that dates back to yesterday's show. And I will do that and we'll continue this conversation coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time.

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James, talk to me about this money point you'd like to make. Yeah, I think that's why when you're

deciding to have the conversation about Lou, restructuring around Zach, you have to have a real conversation about Zach first

because he's got two years left on his contract. And if you're like, if Zach says, all right, well, I need something new, and I'm sure this

goes into why Mike has been loyal to coaches in the past. Zach's like, oh, well, need this and this and this. Well, now the Bengals are probably looking at a four-year deal for a defensive coordinator,

a four-year deal for an offensive line coach, a four-year deal for a defensive line coach. Maybe you get three with those possession coaches. Maybe you get it down to three. But let's just say that. In some cases, I think two, sometimes for position coaches happens. And maybe. Maybe you could get to two. And so it lines up with Zach and you don't feel as much.

But the defensive coordinator hire is getting four. Trying to go three, now Al Golden's like, now I'm good. So now you're dropping another tier. And so that's why you got to be sure that Zach is the guy. And they're confident he is, and that's fine. But you're putting a significant investment. It's just not like, oh, we'll hire a defensive coordinator. And then a year from now, if Zach struggles and this team struggles,

well, now if you blow Zach out and you fire him, then what happens? Now you have a defensive coordinator with three years left on his deal, and he's probably now coming back. So there's a lot there. And I'm not sure they're necessarily talking that way, but they have to think about it because when you sign contracts, it's not like those guys just there's no non-guaranteed money and out clauses in these coaching deals. Yeah. And Golden, just to wrap that point up, not that I intended to talk about Al Golden this much today, but did sign a four-year extension with Notre Dame about a year ago, 13 or 11 months ago. For $9 million, right?

reportedly 9 million in that in that ballpark anyway aligns the reports were that it was going to align with the four-year nine million dollar deal that uh mike denbrock signed real real quick the other thing here is it's like you spend all this money on players coaching matters for sure i would if i owned a team which i never will i would spend so much on coaching. Like I would get the like if I if I thought I could get an elite head coach for $13 million a year I guess what I would have a $13 million a year head coach. You're not capped on your spending on coaching like that's one million unlimited thing you can spend money on to try to make your team better.

It's a head coach right like five million for a defensive coordinator if he's going to be elite like Steve Spagnolo makes roughly 3.5 according to the chief the chief's defensive coordinator and I think he's probably the best you see in the league. Okay that's a steal three and a half it's steel you get the best that's that's a a one-year flyer on on Hayden Hurst is the same as an elite defensive coordinator who would you rather have Hayden Hurst or Steve Spagnolo we know the answer sorry Hayden I'm just picking it out because I think you signed a one-year three million dollar deal get the point the the last point I'll make here going back to Robert Salas specifically yep is

because I wanted to share this earlier this thought earlier and didn't I think that that's a potentially hard nut to crack if you're the Bengals to get in on Robert Salah. Like even if they have called, Salah might have told them, we're going to do these head coach interviews and then we'll see. And then there's also the report that the 49ers have essentially offered him a job or are planning to offer him a job. Like he doesn't have to interview for that job. They know him well enough. They can just offer him the job. there's no other process of 49ers would have to go through there.

The Bengals could be a team that is, even if they are interested in Sala, and by all indications, they aren't necessarily interested in Sala. Yeah, have you heard it? I haven't heard his name from an interested, not that Duke called me just now, but you know, you have things. We'll talk about that.

But no, I haven't. I have not heard that they're interested in any of these former head coaches. But even if they were, I think it would be hard for them. But like you said, and like we've talked about, this should be a very attractive job. It's more attractive than going back to work with Kyle Shanahan where you know you've had success before

and you know the 40-underer's going to pay and you know the organization and you probably hold them in pretty high regard. I don't know. But I do think that it could be difficult, even if the Bengals were interested to pry Sala away. That being said, I think a serious organization would try.

Now, is it the right fit? Maybe not. Maybe you get through that interview and you decide, you know what? This actually wouldn't work here. Maybe. I mean, we're never going to know those answers, right? We're not in the building. We don't see what that looks like from a cultural fit perspective,

from a interview perspective. But even if it would be hard, that's the sort of thing that, like I said, what we're asking them to do is to try to do these things, to accomplish these goals of doing the things that it takes to seriously go for it right now. And we were asking them to do it last offseason and an offseason that we were calling the most important offseason that we could remember in Bengals history.

And they failed that test, right? We talked about that. Now that failure of that test last offseason means you're back in that situation this year and you're also dealing with coaching changes that are now part of what makes this offseason. so important for the team. Yeah, they, if it is appealing, as Zach said, and he said, it's pretty appealing, then that's the discussion you have. You're like, oh, I don't care that. You know San Francisco and Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan and 49ers stunk this year. We had a down year. We were nine and eight.

They had a down year. They weren't even close to the playoffs, the final five weeks. Do you want to be on a team with Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, T. T. Hendricksson, and T. Higgins, or do you want to be with Brock Purdy where the ceiling could be limited now and he might have been exposed a bit. I get it. The 49ers are really good, back to back to back,

super, I get it. You know, or back to back to back to NFC title games, whatever it was. It was a bunch of NFC title games. But I do think that if it is that simple,

when you do think that you're that attractive of a destination, then carry yourself that way and at least see if it is a good fit. Yeah, you can sell it at least, right, the way you just sold it. And I Yeah, exactly.

And you get to, can you imagine if Robert Sala comes in, puts his stamp on this defense, gets a say in the players more here than he would in any other any other defensive coordinator job for sure. It gets to say on who's brought in, who's not, and rejuvenates this Bengals defense and their Super Bowl contenders next year.

He's going to be, look at how the national media has talked about Lou the past couple of days and how great Lou is. Can you imagine what they would say if Robert Sala came in and did that? Like he would get a head coaching job in 2026. Next cycle, he would be getting one probably. And maybe that's the Bengal strategy too. It's like, all right, well, we want to get someone that could be here for multiple years. But you can't predict that.

And so if there's any chance that he would take or entertain or consider an interview, at least interview him, what can it hurt to interview him? and maybe it's an awful interview and it's a waste of four hours or six hours or a three-hour Zoom call. But maybe it's not. Maybe it's like, oh, there's something here. And then you go from there. Bill Belichick is the head coach of North Carolina.

For now. For now. But that sounded outlandish, right? And it started with an interview that shocked everyone. This is such an easy one to at least pursue. Maybe they have. We don't know. But this offseason, I think, from a theme standpoint for our everydayers,

it's part of our job to point out the, all right, well, yeah, they should do this. And now will they? Will they not? Will we find out if they did? I'm not sure. But they should at least call Robert Salas representatives. And because for my money, I don't think he'll be a head coach. I think he'll be a defensive coordinator next year.

And if that's the case, and you have an appealing opening. then you got to kick the tires there because he's clearly the best guy available. How interesting is it, by the way, that Lou is getting discussed by national media. I don't know if they're going to regret this move or not in a year. I found that reaction to be interesting from national media. No, he's well-liked. And he's a good coach. And so when you have both of those things, that will be the reaction some.

But the right- They remember the high-ceiling performances, right? we talked about this. The high ceiling and it's hard to see the floor. And you see the high ceiling and the playoffs. I think that's a big part of it. Part of it. And the writing was on the wall. Those national people should have listened to our Lou episode from a few weeks ago. The writing was on the wall here. And yeah, that's why you should be in every day or national media, be in every day. And would it help to have the front office weigh in on such major coaching changes after the season? Well, in Cincinnati, that is not a luxury that we are afforded.

We'll get into the front office not speaking with the media after the season coming up next. Today's show is brought to by Fandall. From big upsets to game-winning drives, the NFL playoffs are better with Fandall. And right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $200 bucks in bonus bets guaranteed. That's $200 in bonus bets, win or lose. The Fando app gives you everything you need for live bets, same game parlays, and so much more. I get it.

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That's fandle. Make this playoff season unforgettable with Fandle, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Just a couple topics real quick, James, before we dive into the Duke Tobin thing, these should be very, very quick. I did a classic Twitter poll following our episode yesterday. Did the Bengals do the right thing was our episode yesterday in retaining Zach Taylor? And so I asked, did the Bengals have fired Zach Taylor?

60% of respondents on Twitter say no, 39.3% say yes. So our YouTube comments would have told a very different story. YouTube comments were all they should have gotten rid of Taylor. Twitter respondents 6040. A healthy amount that say they should have gotten rid of Taylor, but the majority there saying that they are okay with the Bengals decision to keep Zach Taylor, but he's on thin X judging from a lot of the replies to that one. The other quick note, James, is a couple of Bengals players on the NFLPA All-Pro team

that was announced on Wednesday morning. Jamar Chase, Trey Hendrickson. Congratulations to those two for being recognized by their peers to make it onto the NFLPA first all pro team. And Trey Hendrickson with the defensive player of the week award to wrap up the season. Just a few small notes there for some player honors for the Bengals that a lot of times we miss in the shuffle because there's a lot to talk about. And so we don't have time to acknowledge some of these things. But we do have time this week to quickly mention those. Yeah, for sure. and well-deserved.

Tough race for Joe Burrow. It's tough enough to crack, but obviously he's in that mix, too, played at an extremely high level. It would be nice to ask Duke Tobin about Joe, about Jamar, about Trey, about T, about Lou, about the lack of development, all of those things. And unfortunately, no Duke Tobin at the end of the season,

the Bengals front office, not speaking. and Duke would be the one. We'll hear from him at the Combine, which is something that we normally hear from Omet. But it would have been nice, especially after this year with all of the the uncertainty with Joe Burrough speaking out to hear from Duke or Katie or Troy or Mike,

like any of them, of course. But I would say Duke would be the one and what we did not hear from him. So that's a bummer because a lot of what we're saying, oh, well, you should do this, but he could help fill some context with some of this stuff that we're going to be talking about. Because you better believe that over the next two months, two and a half months, hopefully that's when all of this gets done. I'm going to say, yeah, sign T. Higgins long term. Yeah, signed T. Hendricks into an extension. Yeah, get Jamar's deal

done. Like, get all those things done before you can go into free agency so you know what things are looking like. you structure them in a certain way. Restructure Joe's deal if you need to, to free up 20 plus million in cap space. All of those things. And so to hear from the front office, ask them about that, ask them how willing they are to change some of the things that we've talked about for a long time now. It would have been nice. By the time the combine rolls around, they will have had at least a month. When's the combine?

And of February. Seven weeks from now. So they'll have had almost two months to do all of these things. because as soon as a regular season ended, they were allowed to do all that stuff you just talked about. The restructures and the T. Higgins extension or resigning and the Jamar Chase extension and a potential Trey Hendrickson extension, they can start doing all those things as soon as the regular season ended.

And so they will have had time to do them. They should have by then, honestly, gotten at least some of these things done. Because like you said, you want to get it done well ahead of free agency. They will have time still to do some. some of these things of the combine. Some of those questions will still be pertinent, but the questions about the decision making

about the coaching staff will be retrospective at that point. And how many of those questions will come up at the combine when what will dominate the conversation will likely be, you know, contract related stuff, player personnel related stuff, draft related questions. I'm sure it'll still come up, right? Because that's one of the two chances you get to talk to Duke Tobin all year.

But at that point, the collective consciousness of Bengals media and Bengals fans and the zeitgeist around the Cincinnati Bengals will have shifted because these decisions will have been made for almost seven weeks or six weeks or whatever it will be by that point. And so we'll be getting these answers in retrospect instead of getting some prospective information potentially, not that Duke gives much when he answers questions, but the opportunity to get some of the perspective from the first. front office. It's something that you get in most NFL teams because in most NFL teams,

those are the guys making decisions or individuals making decisions for their teams and are held to answer for them. And in Cincinnati, we've got Zach very often, and this is a hard part of his job that I sympathize for, honestly, being this middleman between the front office and the coaching staff and the media. Yep, no doubt. And the players. Yeah. And, you know, and negotiate and all these things.

Yeah, I agree. That's what makes his job challenging. That's why we should hear from those, that group, someone from that group representing the Bengals front office. That isn't Zach Taylor because he's the head coach. And yeah, he's got more of a say than some and all of those things. But ultimately, Duke Tobin, like, yeah, Miles. Murphy. Yeah, Daxil. Yeah, this guy, that guy. And so when we talk about development,

when we talk about all of these things that went into Lou or Frank or, all right, let's discuss it. No, I will say, because he didn't discuss it. In Duke usually doesn't say anything, but one thing I snagged at the combine last year and it ended up playing out that way and free agency in the draft, it was like, who knows, maybe we sign a veteran offensive lineman that's kind of a journeyman and then also draft one and have them compete and that's exactly what they did it right tackle i mean that's exactly what they did to a t and i'm paraphrasing because he said but he said something to that effect so sometimes duke well will offer up something i remember two years two years ago now it would be three years ago this cycle was dachs hill and i was like

how do you view these safeties and he kind of brushed it off well clearly they had dachso high on their board. He's, I think, 11th on their board. So he will kind of, he'll give you a little tidbits here and there if you can read between the lines. And so it would have been nice, my point, would have been nice to hear from him.

Well, last year, it was like, well, it's on the coaching staff to figure out where these guys were playing, talking about that. And so there, it's not that he says nothing, but he is good about typically hiding his intention. And, and And of course he is, right?

Like he doesn't, they're all good at it. They'll dissect it a little bit. A lot of reading between the lines. I mean, like I said, that's true for pretty much everywhere in the NFL, but most places in the NFL, the front office is much more accessible for the media than it is in Cincinnati. And instead, we're like I said, going to have Duke Tobin on the podium in Indianapolis for like 15 minutes or whatever it is.

And I guess there's also Off-Pogeom opportunities But there's not a whole lot of time And there's a whole lot to talk about Is what I'm trying to say Yeah, it would be nice to have the season wrap up now Because the combine is the new season It just changes the whole shift

It'll shift by that Yeah And so yeah, it's a good point Yeah The Cincinnati Bengals have a lot of goals This offseason, necessarily so They'll have a lot of priorities to juggle. At some point, we're going to have to take a look back at the 2024 season and put a bow on it as well.

The DC search, certainly taking precedent there in recent days. So a couple more topics that we'll need to get to necessarily in the very near future here on lockdown Bengals. We'll be turning our attention to those topics soon. Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Hootay and have a good.