Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Why the Cincinnati Bengals should target defensive line waiver claims (and Israel Abanikanda)

Starting point is 00:00:00 NFL teams are cutting their rosters down to 53 players on Tuesday. Let's talk some potential waiver wire wish list targets. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Locked On Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rupin. We're part of the Lockdown Podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:36 Network here on lockdown Bengals covering your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast. Shout out to the everydayers out there and all of you who make us your first listen. Appreciate the regular listener so very much. And if you're new to the show, you can subscribe to stay up to date on all things Bengals like Jamar Chase returning to practice yesterday. I think a lot of you saw that video on YouTube, the reaction, a little bit of analysis. We got some more information about Jamar's participation in that practice. that we will get to later in today's show. But with waivers just around the corner and the cut down to 53, that is where we start

Starting point is 00:01:13 today. In an episode brought to you by Fandul. Through September 22nd, Fandul is giving all customers who bet $5 three weeks of free NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. To get more details than to get started, check out fandul.com slash locked on. James, a common question at this time of year is, who should the Bengals be targeting on waivers? Are there players they could trade for? And not for bad reason. It wasn't too long ago that they pulled off the Billy Price, almost said Billy Heist, because it was a heist for

Starting point is 00:01:47 BJ Hill trade that has solidified the Bengals defensive interior for the year since. But who should the Bengals be looking at? Where should the Bengals be looking for waiver or trade additions this year? Well, I think the where is where we should start. Because in, It goes hand in hand. And if you're looking for our thoughts on the 53-man roster, make sure you check out Monday's episode that led with Jamar Chase. But to me, there's a couple of spots. One, well, they're probably only keeping three running backs.

Starting point is 00:02:21 In fact, we'll break the news now. The plane is to only keep three running backs. And Trayvion Williams is RB3. But that is certainly an area they'll be looking at. They'll be looking at defensive line. I think with Miles Murphy's injury, what they decide to do with him. defensive end, certainly defensive tackle with McKinley Jackson nicked up.

Starting point is 00:02:38 Certainly been a topic for months and months now. Congrats to DJ Reeder, by the way, of getting off the Pupp list for the Lions. Hopefully he balls out in Detroit. But that's something that you're searching for, right? You would love to be getting DJ Reader back right now from the Pup list. You're not. And the guy that you drafted to help Phil,

Starting point is 00:02:58 that nose tackle role is still in a brace and limping around. So defensive tackle, I think would be a major one probably at the top of the list. And then offensive tackle, depending on Amarius Mims, depending on how confident they are in Jackson, Kirkland, and confident they are on Cody Ford. I think that's probably the least likely because it's just hard to find that guy, but wouldn't rule it out. So those are the spots. And then, of course, punter would be the other one that I think they'll be on the lookout for. It wasn't too long ago that the Bengals claimed Max Sharping and then he was with the team for two. year. So an offensive line, and I don't know if I'm necessarily like hyper-focused on offensive

Starting point is 00:03:37 tackle, although if they have concerns about the health of their two top tackles that are not Orlando Brown, then I could certainly see the focus being on tackle. Anywhere along the offensive line wouldn't shock me at this point. But I agree with you that the top of the priority list is probably the defensive interior followed by an edge player. And the thought that Joe Goodberry actually did a video with some of his thoughts on the 53-man roster and put this idea into my head that has scared me since I heard it, which is we talked last year about how when the Bengals went to their second string on the defensive line, they rotated an entire unit in, say, for the second or third drive of the game on defense.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And you looked up and you're like, man, why is the defense suddenly getting chumped? It was because they went to that second string defensive line. And right now, not to take anything away from these players as individuals, but your second string defensive line is going to be Cedric Johnson, Chris Jenkins, Zach Carter and Joseph Osai, if you just look at the next guys up. And there's no other real options on the roster right now. And I like some of those players.

Starting point is 00:04:43 I like what Joseph Osai did this preseason. I liked the trajectory from Chris Jenkins throughout this preseason. I think he got better as time went on and got more comfortable in his role. But, Sector Johnson and Zach Carter are players that you should be looking to get better than if you can. For guys that are going to play significant rotational snaps for your team. and that is something that, as of today, they would be a line to do for the first few weeks of the season.

Starting point is 00:05:07 And again, not to take anything away from those players. Cedric Johnson had an exciting preseason where he flashed some high-end ability, but I would be looking to get a little bit better than those players if you can't. Now, is that easy to do around cutdowns, especially at the edge position where teams are pretty greedy and hoardy about the edge position they like to keep those players? It can be tough, but there are certainly a few defense. linemen that I have on my radar that are potential cuts for other teams. And it's a market where

Starting point is 00:05:37 they should be exploring trades as well, which is always harder to predict. You don't always know who's available for trades. It's not always obvious. But defensive line is definitely where I have my focus at the top of the list as well, James. Yeah. And you should. I think that's probably most likely. Like if we looked at the, the Fandul odds, I think just because there's so many guys that are going to get cut. And there's so many options. And the need is so dire, at least for us on paper, that if you can find a competent 24-year-old, 26-year-old, undrafted guy that you might not have been able to sign, but you liked them

Starting point is 00:06:19 pre-draft, or a late-round pick that just didn't make the team that they were drafted by. So many guys fit that mold. And the difference with defensive tackle is very, very, very important. versus like running back, you have your guys at running back that you plan on playing. Obviously, depth is important. And having a fourth guy would be great if someone that you feel confident in on the practice squad or finding someone that can be an upgrade from Trevion Williams, maybe even someone that can push for snaps as RB3 or whatever.

Starting point is 00:06:52 It would be great. I think that that's slightly more challenging because they already have guys that they feel confident in. you mentioned it. You're not feeling bullish on Zach Carter. I don't think anyone is at this point. I'm sure he knows that. It's a real important season for him from an NFL standpoint, but he's got to play better. And we haven't seen it, so you can't bank on that. McKinley Jackson injured. And even if he comes back soon, unproven and a rookie without the snaps that you wanted him to get throughout camp and preseason and joint practices. And so it's going to be tough to bank on him too. So yeah, I think it's pretty clear where they should be. focus for sure. A few names that I'll throw out there. I've got a few names. Defensive line will start there. Tommy Togiae looks like he's not going to make the team in Atlanta. He's been a draft. He was a draft crush of mine back in the day when he was what a third round pick I think for the Cleveland Browns. And I don't think that I saw a roster projection for the Atlanta Falcons where he was making the team. He's had a solid preseason. He's been a solid

Starting point is 00:07:57 player. I'm not saying he's a world beater or anything, but he's a guy that I would like as a fifth defensive tackle. Dean Lowry, don't know if he's going to make the team in Pittsburgh. There could be a number of Pittsburgh Interior Defensive Lyman and Cleveland defensive lineman in the division that could be interesting,

Starting point is 00:08:13 including Joanne Briggs, UC Bearcat, who could not make the team up in Cleveland. Kyle Pecco might not make the team, although I think he is more likely to make, I think, the Lions, but there's a chance that he's He doesn't make it up there.

Starting point is 00:08:29 The Chargers seem to have extra defensive linemen kicking around right now. Some of these guys might not make the team like Mike Hinton. You want a Mike Hinton and a Mike Hilton on the same team. Chris Runk and Scott Matlock. Sorry, it's Chris Hinton. Dang. I knew I'd get that confused. Names.

Starting point is 00:08:48 But those are some defensive linemen that I think could be interesting that stand out. And some other people have suggested some other players. and Johnson the third a familiar face if he doesn't make his team Jared Clark P.J. Mustifer. A number of names there on the defensive line. And there's also some running backs that one of which I think the Bengals will be interested in and well. Real quick. Before you do that, you just name like 50,000 guys, like 50,000. That shows the need at defensive line. Jake was looking up You looked up You did go on LinkedIn jobs

Starting point is 00:09:28 And you typed in defensive tackle You had to There's no way Some of those names are fake I looked at a few Potential cut down To 53 projections For a number of teams

Starting point is 00:09:38 And I think it was like CVF sports Had an article on Popular waiver claim Targets Yeah sure So it's just It was a lot

Starting point is 00:09:49 It's a lot of guys There aren't nearly as many at running back. And that's that's it. I mean, if you're watching on YouTube, the thumbnail, it's got Israel Obanaconda on it. And that's someone, if you're an everydayer, we talked about before that 2023 draft as someone the Bengals could be interested in. He falls the round five. You know, he's kind of buried on the Jets depth chart. So Izzy come to Cincinnati and break off some big rounds. He would be fun. And he's not just a, I'm not sure he would even be active early, but he would certainly give the Bengals ceiling in that running back room a big lift.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Popped off at 46 yard, I believe. Touchdown running his final preseason game for the Jets as well would be very fun. We'll wrap up with a couple other running back names really quick. We've got to talk about some Majai P-Rine. And then Mike Sando dropped his QB tiers in Joe Burroughs placement, a little controversial for some readers. We will discuss what the NFL thought of Joe Burrow in that tier list coming up next. Today's show is brought to by Fandall.

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Starting point is 00:11:49 slash locked on to download America's number one sports book. James, before we talk about the QB tiers from Mike Sando over at the athletic, which is always fun to peruse, get a feel for where the NFL is on different quarterbacks around the league. Samajie Pryne, a name Ed Running Back we did not discuss in the waiver wire wish list. And maybe it's because he's not on your wish list for Samajai Pryan, former Bengal, doing all that dirty work in pass pro, not making James's wish list. I think this is a player that regardless of your thoughts on Samaj-P-Rine,

Starting point is 00:12:26 they did not want to see him leave to Denver when he left to Denver. And he now has a very good shot of not making that team. It would be very obvious for them to go kick those tires if he were to become available. Sure. It's the most likely outcome. If Somaget Piran is available, I think the Bengals will be interested. Heck, they may give up a seventh rounder just to get him here. Like, that would not floor me.

Starting point is 00:12:49 I don't think they would want to take that salary. on because this contract is a little bigger than you would like it to be, but wouldn't be the biggest shock ever. It's one year, plenty of cap space. So I'm just saying it wouldn't shock me because Samajai chose to go to Denver. That would be the thing. Like if you really want him and maybe he has no choice and would want to come back to Cincinnati, but you just don't know for sure.

Starting point is 00:13:13 So I throw that out there. And I wouldn't say I don't want him. He's just not moving your running back room forward. Now, if you're saying you're running back room on game day, is P. Ryan, Moss, and Chase Brown, sure. But you're really just replacing Trevion Williams with a guy who's had more snaps on offense, which I get and I understand it. But that's not like a long-term solution. Does it make them a little better? It would.

Starting point is 00:13:43 And it would make them deeper. And I think that would be where I'd be excited about it is if Travion is your fourth and Piron is your third, you feel much better, I think, about the floor of that room than you would with Trayvion is your third. And I'm not even sure the fourth running back or the practice squad running back is on the roster right now. Yeah, I don't know that they're practice squad players for a couple of positions that are currently on the team.

Starting point is 00:14:06 But maybe they surprise us and they like some guys more than we thought they would like them based on the preseason. But you're right. It raises the floor of the running back room. Somaget-P. Ryan is better than Trayvian Williams. I think it's more than just more experienced. I think he is a little bit of a better player. Is it significant?

Starting point is 00:14:25 Does he raise a ceiling? I don't think so, but he does raise the floor of the running back room unless he's really falling off. And that's the thing that I don't really know about. I did not watch his preseason snaps in Denver closely, where he lost out on a running back battle by all appearances. He's a little bit older than the other options there. But Ben Albright throughout this preseason has targeted or had a circle around Somaget

Starting point is 00:14:51 Piron's name on that Denver depth chart is a guy that could get cut. And it looks like that's the way things are going to go there. And obviously some of these guys were talking about as waiver wire wish lists targets won't get cut. And none of these, some of these won't ever be options in the first place. But that's one that I think obviously bears watching. If you want to really revamp the room and make it feel like it's good for week one and deep and yet has some upside.

Starting point is 00:15:23 How about you just get both guys? Yeah. Abonaconda and P. Rhine. Because the two guys, they're not, they're going to complement each other. They're not going to get in each other's way. P. Ryan becomes your third running back and active on game days and can help on special teams and do whatever else you ask him to do.

Starting point is 00:15:38 And Abonaconda can learn. And who knows? Maybe raise the ceiling of that running back room. Like, that's what I would do. And this is great. We've talked about it a thousand times off air. It goes back to the draft where you have 10 picks. I get it's not a great running back draft.

Starting point is 00:15:54 There were running backs in that draft that could have helped this Bengals running back room and could have helped running backs coach Justin Hill. And heck, some undrafted guys over the past couple of years that signed elsewhere. It's like, man, it would be nice to have that guy in the building. And so that's why if you could give me a Bonaconda and Pirine, I would do a little dance at the beginning of every episode, Jake, but it might be a little more exciting than the usual dance. Yeah, it goes back to a criticism we've had of their approach to undrafted free agents for a while.

Starting point is 00:16:25 They don't typically spend a lot of money there. It makes it hard for them to compete for some of the more sought after undrafted free agents. And they just haven't had a terribly high hit rate there. Not that anyone does. That's a really hard place to hit. But when you talk about running backs, that is not an area where they have had a great deal of success in signing undrafted college free agents. Let's move on and talk of the.

Starting point is 00:16:49 little bit about these QB tears. Joe Burrow, who previously was discussing on various podcasts or one specific podcast about how, you know, maybe people forgot about him a little bit, but you couldn't really blame them because he was hurt. And at some point, we said, well, the NFL hasn't really forgotten about Joe Burrow. And that appears to remain true. The QB tiers that Mike Sando does are commentary from coaches, coordinator, from coaches, coordinators, executives, assistant coaches, and a few analytic staffers across the league.

Starting point is 00:17:25 And Joe Burrow this year received 43 Tier 1 votes and seven Tier 2 votes, which is down a little bit from last year. Going into last year of 49 Tier 1 votes and one Tier 2 vote, the injury brings him down just a hair. But based on the votes, the NFL, all these voters, coaches, executive, etc. still see Joe Burrow is the second best quarterback in the NFL ahead of Josh Allen behind Patrick Mahomes. Yeah. And I think that that's exactly where he should be. And it's unique, Jake, because these tiers are way different than the player rankings like Joe Burroughs 30, what was he, 36, the 39th or whatever it was in those player rankings. I don't even know. Couldn't even tell you. It was insane. He was in the 30s. And that's

Starting point is 00:18:17 ridiculous. That's laughable. This makes sense. And it makes sense because it has, and I don't necessarily agree with all the comments, but clearly they're all leery of the injury stuff. And they should be. We all are. That's why every, that's why the glove thing last week is being discussed. That's why all offseason, it's like, oh, well, when is Joe starting to throw? Oh, my God. Look, Joe, there's a grainy video of Joe Burrow working out at Black Sheep. Okay, it might not be grainy, but you get the point. Like everyone wanted to see any little update because we know how important he is. He's the franchise. And I'm a little surprised.

Starting point is 00:18:56 I thought if I would have guessed, I would have had the NFL personnel having Joe third and Allen second because of the injury. I thought they would react a little bit, but clearly they didn't overreact. And that's good because I think that that shows NFL teams and NFL personnel aren't overreasonable. aren't overreacting to an injury that looked really, really serious and was really, really serious. But let's see Joe get out there. And obviously when he is out there and he is healthy, he's been the second best quarterback

Starting point is 00:19:28 in football really since 2021. I'm not really sure how you could debate that, but maybe some will. That, to me, is pretty clear. There's a big gap between what the NFL season they look at Joe Burrow versus what some analytics folks, even they look at Joe Burrow and some of the quote unquote quarterback experts, even they look at Joe Burrow. Experts. And there are several reasons for that.

Starting point is 00:19:53 But Mike Sando points out that Joe Burrow drew the greatest amount of dissent from various Twitter commenters, including ESPN's analytics guy, whose name I'm now forgetting. And I'm sorry that I'm forgetting the name. But I think that Sando points out rightly that it is a big year for Burrow. He needs to show that he can still do the things that he could do before. And some of the quotes that you see from some of the voters in Sandoz's piece, at some point physically his body is going to fail, said a defensive coach who has faced Burrow multiple times. A head coach said he's definitely a tier one, but they've got to be careful.

Starting point is 00:20:33 He's getting hurt on his throwing arm. He has injuries to his legs. That will affect your arm. I'm curious to see how the ball comes off his hand this year. And I think that last sentence, I'm curious to see how the ball comes off his hand this year, is a common sentiment. I think a lot of people are curious to see what Joe Burrow looks like coming off this injury, which is fairly unprecedented, as we've discussed many times.

Starting point is 00:20:57 Yeah, no doubt. I want to react to those comments real quick since you mention them. We'll do that coming up next. I totally get the ball coming off of his hand. I think we're all going to pay attention to that, especially after he's hit 12 times in two weeks, let's just say. Hopefully it's not that many, but it can be that many. Right after he's hit a couple of times in the first quarter,

Starting point is 00:21:23 is it still everything normal in the third quarter, in the fourth quarter late in the game? That's something we all have to see. And I think Joe as much as anyone wants to see that. But to me, and I look at these tiers, like Aaron Rogers is still seventh overall. Aaron Rogers. Like, it wasn't just last year. Like, people were questioning him a couple of years ago.

Starting point is 00:21:49 And so I do think that that it just shows that they don't overreact too far. But I do agree it's a crucial year because we could look up. Like if let's say he's just okay this year and the Bengals are just okay and Stroud takes a step forward. Lamar is what Lamar was last year. Matthew Stafford plays really, really well. Who's tied for fifth. Josh Allen obviously could surpass him. Like you could see him drop quickly or maybe he tries to go the other way.

Starting point is 00:22:18 And I know that's his goal. That's his mindset. He didn't say it this offseason. Of course, he's going after Mahomes and wants to not only beat the chiefs, but show that he's the best quarterback on the planet. So that's why you get bigger, stronger, faster. We'll see if it translates. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Big year for Burrow. Not breaking news there. Because it could go either way, right? Or he could just stay too. but I could see him winning the MVP. I could see a lot of different things. So hopefully it is that one. Yeah, going to be very interesting to see in a few weeks

Starting point is 00:22:50 how that hand and the ball coming off his hand looks for the course of an entire NFL game. We've seen him throughout practices, obviously. We've seen him get through all of training camp and all these things. But I wonder if he's done any, and this is just an idle speculative kind of question. I wonder if he's done any like fall training,

Starting point is 00:23:09 not to hearken too much back to Tuatunga and him trying to not hit his head on the ground so much when he took hits, but, you know, just various things to test out the wrist in terms of breaking falls, or if you just didn't get to that point, you know, because you wouldn't do that early in rehab, obviously, when there's, like, a significant risk of re-injury.

Starting point is 00:23:29 I don't know when you could do that. Exactly. Yeah, I don't think so. To your point, I don't think so. Seems like it would be helpful. Maybe. I don't know, from like a mental standpoint. You know what's going to be helpful?

Starting point is 00:23:43 Go ahead. Jamar Chase. Oh, yeah. Having Jamar Chase back on the field. Yeah, so go ahead. We talked about this yesterday, and we got a little bit more information about Jamar Chase's return to practice. Ari Maheroff of the 33rd team now.

Starting point is 00:24:01 He said that negotiations between the Bengals and Chase continuing that Chase did participate in more of practice, a lot of individual work, which. is expected. Even if he signed a deal, I don't think he would have jumped into team 11 on 11. So pretty normal for that to be the case. I bet his first team session could be this week a little bit because you have the ramp up. Certainly he will be in team next week. But I wouldn't be shocked if it's Wednesday. You have a couple late days off Tuesday and then Wednesday you get after it. But there's that. And then I think Paul Dayner Jr. was the first to report that Jumar expected to practice all week long. So it's a decent chance we hear from Jamar this week.

Starting point is 00:24:43 Even if a deal doesn't get done, we'll certainly see him at some point on the practice field. And the other thing that Meyeroff mentioned is Jamar's camp is kind of like, all right, well, we want to get a deal done now. But it wants to, they want it to be market value, which I get. And they're kind of waiting on CD Lamb as well, potentially, because then it could hammer home that that Justin Jefferson deal isn't the outlier, which I don't think it is. I think CD's going to get right there where Justin is or maybe more than Justin. That's kind of year CD Lamb had last year. And that was Maro's point, was that if these other receivers, and he also mentioned Brandon Ayyuk,

Starting point is 00:25:21 if those guys get the kind of contracts they're looking for that are pushing or above Justin Jefferson's deal, well, then the Bengals will have no choice, but to realize this is what the market is now, Justin Jefferson is not an outlier, and they're holding on to some sort of probably false hope that it wasn't an outlier. I think that I agree with you. It probably is the direction the market is going, and they will have to page a March Jace, that kind of money.

Starting point is 00:25:44 And the other side of this is, it's very interesting to see him hold out of all of camp and then return now, even though I don't think it's necessarily an indicator that a deal is about to get done. And that could be the way some people saw it. Maybe that's what it means. Maybe they're very confident something gets done

Starting point is 00:26:04 before week one at this point. but I don't think that there's any reading between the lines we can really do here outside of Myra reporting that they are continuing to have negotiations. And this is something that they're so working on. After Mike Brown, the last time we heard about this directly from the team said he didn't think it was going to happen before the season or certainly in the season because the Bengals, as many teams, don't like to negotiate during the season. Yeah, I don't think it will happen in season. And so less than two weeks, 13 days. Hopefully it's not the morning of week one. But heck, Joe got done, signed it and got on a flight and then went and played Cleveland.

Starting point is 00:26:46 So hopefully it's much sooner than that. Hopefully they can get it done. Obviously, we are on Jamar Watch, if anything does get done. I don't know. I don't feel great about it. I think it might get pushed now, now that he's back on the field. I wonder if that has an impact or not. it's very hard to say.

Starting point is 00:27:03 We haven't heard from the player. We're not going to hear from Duke Tobin or Mike Brown about this until next summer. So there won't be direct updates, certainly, from anyone. And we'll see if and what Jamar Chase has to say about it if he talks to any of the media down after practice. It would be Tuesday, would be the first opportunity. Wednesday. Wednesday? What day is it?

Starting point is 00:27:31 It's Monday. Cut down day Tuesday. That's right. I mean, if Jamar makes the team, just yeah. Then we're back to somewhat of a regular, regular season practice schedule, James? Is that going to be a thing coming up here soon too?

Starting point is 00:27:48 Yeah, the people don't know what that is. But you'll catch a, you'll have us daily regardless. Yeah. It just means they're off on Tuesdays. That's all that really means. The players are off on Tuesdays. We will be back after the Bengals have trimmed their roster to 53 players.

Starting point is 00:28:06 We will analyze the surprises. I'm sure they will catch us off guard with one or two moves because there's information that we are not privy to that the team knows about. We'll see what happens with some of those IR moves. We'll have you covered with analysis of that initial 53 and what the next moves might be. Because the initial 53 is unlikely to be the 53 when the Bengals take the field for weeks. week one. Until next time, that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Thanks for listening. Ho-Day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Why the Cincinnati Bengals should target defensive line waiver claims (and Israel Abanikanda)

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