Will Cincinnati Bengals put the finishing touches on the roster before training camp?
00:00The Cincinnati Bengals have a habit of not spending all their money.It's time to get some help.You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast.Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.What up, Bengals fans, and welcome to another episode of the Locked on Bengals podcast.I'm your host, Jake Liscoe.He's your host, James Rapine, and we are Locked on the Lockdown Podcast Network.your team every day.
00:38James and I have been covering the Cincinnati Bengals here onLockdown Bengals collectively since 2016.So if you're looking for a place to get the best daily newsand analysis on the Cincinnati Bengals,you are in the right place.The everydayers out there already know that.Welcome back to all the everydayers that make Lockdown Bengalspart of their daily routine and all of you out there
01:00who make us your first listen.Appreciate all of you so very much.Today we dive into a mailbag that will discuss the opportunity the Bengals have to put the finishing touches on their roster and their history in not always making those moves.We'll do some expectation setting for this defense, for potential areas of improvement on the team.That's coming up later in this show.This episode brought to you by the Amazon Fire TV stick 4K.Turn any TV into your Xbox without needing a console.head to amazon.com slash fire tv locked on to learn more.
01:38James, we're going to start with a pair of questions fromBengelman brothers and Barrett Carter season that are both essentially askingabout a topic that we touched on when Gino Stone's pay cut news broke,which is essentially, are the Bengals going to do something here?What's the percentage chance of Bengals sign a potential starter by Augustat guard, defensive tackle, or safety?or phrase another way,are the Bengals going to do anything to actually upgrade the roster
02:07or just roll with basically the same team as last year plus rookies?They have to.They have to.I think the moves that they could potentially make,and it has a lot to do really twofold.This isn't just, all right, well, it's May and the draft is overand free agency is mostly over.And so let's just look and see what's out there.
02:29There are real guys out there.that can still help this team.Part of that is because they have multiple holes that are pretty glaring, I would say.And at the same time, there's talent in a couple of those spots that just stands out to me.And so when I look at this free agent group and the veterans that are out there,plus the Bengals resources, whether it's current cap space, potential cap space, they could clear,or Will Clear with Germain Pratt,he may be released by the time
03:05people are listening or watch this episode.How many times have you said that?I'm going to keep saying it because it could happen right now.Like I have no idea when,but I know it will happen.There is zero percent.I have a better chance of being on the Bengals rosterthan Germain Pratt this year.
03:20Like there's just no,like unless he went to the Bengals and said,I'll play for $2 million or something.I just,I don't see the scenario.And by the way,if he did that after the Demetrius night,pick he's not going to do that but let's just put it that to bed so you have to get better and the
03:40reason you have to get better is because if you take away and this was their issue last year ifyou take away their star players let's say they're five best players players players six through 20 orseven through 20 are probably worse than players seven through 20 on a lot of playoff teams andcertainly the Super Bowl contendersAnd I think that's where they need to get better and improve.And that doesn't mean that Brandon Scherf is going to come in and be an all pro.But he can probably help.There are guys that can help.
04:16You could go get a Jake Liscoe special, Julian Blackman, go get him.It doesn't have to be a big name guy.But there are guys that could come in and at least both of your depth.Maybe they're not going to be the 20th best player on your roster, by the way.but it gives you depth to where if Gino Stone,who's, let's say, 30th on your roster,25th on your roster, whatever he is,if he goes down,
04:37well, then you're going to the 27th best player on your roster,and it's not a huge hole, a huge drop-off.So I think that part is important, too.From a depth standpoint and just overall starters,they could improve in key areas.That could make the difference with making the playoffs or notor advancing in the playoffs and being a legitimate contender or not.How about Jadavia and Clowny getting released
04:59right when we started this segment.I was just going to say,not that that's really a fit for the Bengals roster at this point,where they've invested two first-round draft picksin young edge rushers in the last couple of years now.They bring back Joseph Osai.Cam Sample is part of this unit.You got Trey Hendrickson, probably.
05:22I guess there's a Trey Hendrickson topicthat we probably need to revisit several timesbetween now and training camp.and throughout training camp, depending on the way that thing goes.But it's hard to see the roster space, the snaps for Clowny and everyone else they have on the roster at this point.So I don't think it really makes sense.But that is a prominent name that happened to get released right as we started recording.So worth mentioning.
05:50It is. It is worth mentioning for sure.Outside of that, I have a question.what do you think the likelihood is?Like we both agree that they shouldand be any number of positions.I wouldn't be opposed to having a better sixth receiver on the roster.Because right now, you have great players, sure.You have two great players at the top of your wide receiver depth chart.
06:20You're totally fine with Andre Yosevasch and Mike Gisicki being that wide receiver threeand sharing that role.I'm pretty okay with that.I don't need to get better there.The offense can work with that.But beyond that, where's Remain Burton?No idea.Where's Charlie Jones?
06:38No idea.And beyond that, there's no actual six wide receiverthat feels like somebody you'd want to put on the field for offense right now.So, like, you could even talk me into a depth wide receiver.Gabe Davis?Absolutely, sure.Why not?But beyond that, you can also talk me into
06:56the defensive tackle who could play rotational staffs right away.Sure.Like not be a fringe of the roster type of player,like an actual veteran who can play for you.Do you see a bunch of those?That's the one concern I have is I don't see a bunch of defensive tackles.No, there's never a bunch of defensive tackles.Yeah, that's right.
07:21It's tough.But Maurice Hurst, we'll go back to that one.We'll make him our guy, our Colias Campbell of this year, you know?Yeah, different.Different, to be clear.But yeah, sure.Well, different, but I just mean a guy that we're going to mention a lot if he's stillavailable.
07:39Now, Campbell's better and a different player and just more established and all the above.But there aren't many.And so the ones that are out there that could make a little bit of an impact, like you got to scoopthem up.And so, yeah, Maurice Hurst, I bet he would.jump at the eye the possibility of joining this Bengals team because he's going to get if he's healthyhe's getting snaps because he would be a good piece of their roof it's an area where they obviouslydidn't do enough but they're to your point are not a bunch of great choices out there either
08:11there are some players that have experience that could be better than scraping a guy off the streetin scraping a guy out of the street is not a good way to phrase it but signing a guy off the streetin, you know, September, which they've had to do, and really having to patch it together,you want to avoid that situation.But whether it's the players that we've talked about, the Dalton Riser, Brandon Shurf,Will Hernandez as a guard, doesn't feel like that move is coming.Do you have any sense that there's an interior offensive line signing coming?I don't.
08:50I think that they feel confident.Now, what I'm really watching.watching is just Jalen Rivers get a real shot at right guard. And I think that that coincides with it.Like, because if they're like, hey, we're going to give him a real shot, I see it. And I canunderstand it. And by the way, he may win that job if they really did. I like him. I like his game a lot.And there's that. And then on the other side, I love the idea of just getting a guy that can beplug and play. I think Cordell Vulsin's money overall, like if you're asking all these guys to take pay cuts,again, revisiting the Cordell thing,
09:27I don't really see a scenario where it makes sense to pay him $3.6 million this year,unless you really think he can win the starting job and be a starter.And I don't think that's realistic.Maybe they feel otherwise.So that's the Cordell topic, I'd say.And even beyond guard,if there's a competition at right guard,like, is your swing tackle really Cody Ford or Jalen Rivers?
09:53Yes.I know.Yes. Oh, 100% it is.And that's why I wonder if they're notIs that okay?Like, man.Pete at card, which I would, but.So there's a few spots there in the offensive line where it makes sense to us.
10:08We've talked about Julian Blackman, talked about the opportunities of interior defensivelimer.There's not a ton of options, but there are some guys out there that have played NFLSnats who could be a fifth piece.I have a free agent that we haven't talked about, at least in a while.Wow.Then I have to run by you real quick.So we'll do that coming up next.
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11:29So head to Amazon.com slash FireTV locked on to get started.Xbox GamePass Ultimate Subscription and compatible controller required available on select devices,including Fire TV Stick 4K, Fire TV, Macs, and Fire TV Cube.All right, Jake.I got a name.I think he's the, at worst, second best realistic is wrong, but maybe second best for agentremaining. And if, if Brandon Shurf has retired, best for agent remaining. It would be a positionthat I don't think a lot of people would say is a position of need. I'd be in on Asante Samuel, Jude.
12:10I would. Now, I know it's weird with, and it's like, oh, well, you have Cam, and you have DJ Turner,and you're committed to Dax, and you have the Asante Samuel Jr. injury questions. I just thinkyou talk about players that like he could come in and be the 18th best guy on your rosteror 15th or maybe he stays healthy and in levels up and goes is even better like I think he'sthat good and so yeah that would be a guy I would bring in and totally be open to even thoughthat cornerback room appears to be said I think they're happy with it I think he's a guy that Iwould target yeah I think this one is unlikely so I don't want to necessarily spend too much timebut I'll say if he was willing to come in and be a part of that room without starting steps
13:05necessarily on the table, he could certainly earn them, but it wouldn't be a promise.Then there's absolutely no reason the Bengals shouldn't make this move.On the other hand, that's true for a lot of teams.We've seen quarterback depth get tested across the league.And Bengals fans have certainly seen it.year for the last few years where your quarterbacks four five those guys are going to playthey're going to get pressed into action and so yeah it'd be great to have asante samuel bepart of that depth the same way you mentioned Gabe davis earlier different players obviously different
13:39parts of their career but yeah when you can have a guy with a pedigree or who's had NFLsuccess and put them in a room and have them be depth yeah it makes a lot of sense for the bengalsand probably a lot of teams thereason that I see it as just unlikely is just because of the state of the room, right?Like, you add a guy like that to the room and does that precipitate a trade if he turns outto be healthy in camp and is clearly better than somebody else or create a sticky situation?Not that a trade is a sticky situation, like that gets you value, but it's just a tricky thingfrom a roster perspective.
14:19The same way we talked about the musical chairs, the defensive tackle going intothe draft where they wanted to get a defensive tackle didn't now it's kind of a weirdsituation there the same way they were talking about snap availability for jadavia and clownieit's a bit of a complicated spot because and it feeds into our next question too like have theygotten better at corner same players no they haven't they've they have not gotten better at cornerdax is coming back from an ecel yeah you know so could could they stand to get better atSure. Do they have the available snaps to tangibly get better at corner if they signedAssante Samuel Jr. and figure that out? Probably, but that's a tricky path to figure out, right?
15:05And I think the fact that he's still out there speaks to a level of uncertainty around what'sgoing on with him too. No doubt. That's the part that's interesting. But when healthy,because we don't know that part, but when healthy, he's 100% of starter on this group.like he he would beat out one of these guys name who i don't need to name it because i agreethere's no reason to insult the roster when we know they probably don't go this routebut i'm about making the team better like i think asante samuel junior makes the team better thanthan justin simmons which might be a take for some because of the safety realm and the safetyroom and in how things are but no i i would be in on on simon just to give you an eye
15:53idea of where I'm at. Blackman is different because I think he'll cost less. So it's hard tocompare the two. I think like Simmons, Asante Samuel Jr., Brandon Scherf, those guys are goingto cost a little more because of the pedigree because of what they've done in the league. Even thoughSamuel is younger, he's not at the level of those other guys when those other guys were peaking.But I just think his talent is there. And I think in NFL circles, it is that way. People view himthat way. So just a name I wanted to throw out there that I hadn't heard recently, at least, in a lotspots. The otherinterior defensive linemen names, if we're just throwing names
16:26out, that I think arestill unsigned?What's your source of guys that are unsigned, by the way?This will be good for our listeners, too. What are youusing at this point to track that?Let me see here.I don't have it up, butlet me.
16:42So the other names. I think I useBFF. Maybe not.I'm not sure if that will still be up todate at some point, butsome other names that I think are still on signon the interior defensive line, Khalil Davis, Tavin, Brian, Jonathan Bullard.Those are some of the names have played a lot last year that might still be out there.And there's more than that too.
17:07It's not just PFF, but for some reason Google took me right back to PFF.Jedrick Wills, by the way, is your swing tackle that you want.There you go.I'd be on board with that.He's like a roll of the dice.Can he make the roster and maybe win a swing tackle job?that's where he is for me.I don't think there's like a legitimate swing tackle out there that it doesn't fall
17:26into that that category of like,all right,will he make the roster or not?I mean,is there?The one that comes to mind is Jermaine Afetti,but he was kind of rough and up and like very up and down last year.But that's the one that comes to mind to me if you're talking about a swing tackle.
17:43Would you let's just,we're going off the rail.We mentioned Gabe Davis.If Amari Cooper called you and said,hey,I'll play for five million bucks.You,you don't know,
17:51Murray Cooper? Sure. Like, I don't know.It's just, you know what's interesting is like a few years ago. I don't think you'retaking $5 million for what it's worth. Sure. Maybe not. Maybe not. But a few years ago,it was like, oh, well, the borough, the power of borough and he's going to attract free agentsand all those things. And then they went out and like, and I like T.J. Slayton, but like,that's their big free agent. And it's not like he signed a $2 million deal to give a teamfriendly discount, right? He got a good contract with the Bengals.It's like, it's interesting.
18:25It's like when does that happen?When does that work?When do you get, when do you use the pool?And maybe that's it is a past catcher like that.Or maybe you're saying, oh, well, Mike is Sicki would have gotten more on the market or whatever.But I do think that that's interesting.And that's the type of of guy in a past first offense that would be like, I'll go be wide receiver four knowing that there's going to be some attrition.And I'm going to be able to compete for a Super Bowl, Rick.
18:51So I think about like DeAndre Hopkins when I think about this kind of player.And DeAndre Hopkins isn't taking, like he's still getting paid, right?Like he's not taking really small.Sorry.Maybe I'm Devante Adams as a player maybe that was coming to mind for me.Yeah, I was going to say.Oh, yeah, yeah.Devante Adams getting paid.
19:16DeAndre Hopkins signed one year five million with Baltimore.He did at age 30.coming off a 610-yard year, five touchdowns.Devante was the guy who's thinking of because I was thinking about who just signed with the Rams,and he's still getting paid.And Devante is still productive.So like late career players like that, the 33-year-olds who still have something in the tank,when does that happen for Joe?
19:40Like these guys are signing with teams that are willing to do it.And I think that's part of it.I think there are probably players that are willing to do that with Cincinnati,but is Cincinnati willing to pay the price stack?Like, Cincinnati for DeAndre Hopkins might not get to $5 million.Maybe they're offering $2.5 million.And that's how they see that value fitting into their roster with what they've spenta wide receiver elsewhere.
20:02And then the players like, oh, I can make more money elsewhere.Maybe.Yeah.No, I get that.I just, Cooper is interesting because, like, on paper, you could totally see Cooper Higginsand Jamar on the field.Yeah.And you just, like, feels so madonyy, you know, for lack of a better word.
20:19But that's how they.so does Asante Samuel Jr.But in November when you need to cover,in November when you need to get a first down,you know,like signing Brandon Scherf to the Bengals probably feels maddeny.Like all this probably feels maddeny to them, right?And it's maddening that it feels maddeny to them.
20:40I think probably a lot of people just listen to the 20 minutesthat we just talked about these guys and are like,the Bengals aren't doing any of this stuff.Why are you spending the time on it?Right. Because they should be.That's exactly it.We're going to finish the show with a question about expectations, several questions aboutexpectations for this team in terms of improvement, in terms of the defense coming up next.
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21:42and start saving time today. Again, that's LinkedIn.com slash locked on NFL to post your job for freeterms and conditions apply.As we wrap up talking about a bunch of guys that I honestly, James, do not think are very realistic targets for the Cincinnati Bengals in May or June or July or August.There are questions about realistic outlook for this team.And let's take Sisi Fanatic's question here in terms of where's their improvement?Rank these, James, rank these units from most improvement to live.least improvement.And I find this interesting.
22:27Offensive line, defensive line,linebacker, secondary.Where have the Bengals improvedamong those position groups in 25?All right.Let's see.I think it's close because none of them are likeso much better.
22:45All right.So O line, D line,linebacker,secondary.I hate this.I hate it.Because like defensive line,you're saying T.J.
22:57Slayton.and Shamar Stewart.Offensive line, you're saying two draft picks.Linebacker, you're saying two draft picks minus a veteran.And secondary, am I missing someone?They didn't add anyone, right?Who am I missing?All right.
23:17This is a real rock and all right.That's got to the point, right?Where did they get better?I guess what they would say is new offensive line coach, new defensive line coach,new linebacker's coach.Right.New defensive coordinator.Yeah.
23:32Good God.Development from guys.To me, it's wild because, like, it might be offensive line.Like, it might, because you're talking, Alex Kappa was so bad.How bad was Alex Kappa?He was so bad.And you combine that with two guys that I like as prospects.I think that there are better prospects outside of Amarius Mims than any of the
24:00prospects the Bengals had drafted in the Frank Pollock era.from an offensive line standpoint.And so you add those two guys.It's interesting, right?But like I think that's true.I think Jalen Rivers kicks Jackson,Carmen's behind from a prospect standpoint.Certainly as a versatility and trade standpoint, too.
24:21So no, I, it's tough.None of them drastically improved and feel great on paper.Put it that way.I think the secondary is the most stable,but the depth in the in the safety room concerning linebackers a big question mark because you're banking on two rookies and a guy coming off of an injury and Logan Wilson so it's weird to say because it's not like we have the utmost confidence in it but I think the offensive and defensive lines are kind of like tied one in one aand I again I don't feel I don't feel great about it but like T.J. Slayton matters.Samar Stewart I think is going to matter. It may start and then you added two guys and Dylan Farrischild in Jalen Rivers.
25:02It's,it's tough.That's a tough one because I don't feel like any,any of them got drastically better.And it's really like,all right,well,these two didn't get worse and maybe better.
25:14Linebacker,you could argue that,oh,well,Germain Pratt had all those mistackles fine,but I still think it's going to take Demetriusnight a little time to get to prime Germain Pratt level,if that's what you're hoping for.
25:23And so it's hard for me to envision a scenario where the linebackers aredrastically better right away.I actually have a different answer from you here.I think linebacker is the easiest one for me to say there's a projectable improvement therebecause the linebackers were so bad last year.Like, yeah, if you're talking prime Jermaine Pratt, they're not going to get there.But last year's linebacker play was a problem.And whether that was schematic, whether that was not trusting things, whether that was a defensive line in front of them,
25:54I think that that one's the easiest for me to project improvement.for because it was, I think, so much of an issue last year.I have a hard time projecting significant improvement on the offensive line becauserookies just generally take time to cook.And it takes getting high level starting play or even average level starting play froma third and fifth round pick if those guys win jobs or Cody Ford or Cordell-Bulsonor Lucas Patrick or Matt Lee.Like Matt Lee is probably the one that I would feel the best.
26:28best about of all those guys being an average level player if he gets a chance at guard.And that feels like a long shot.So it's hard, despite how bad the guards were last year, to project significant improvementon the offensive line because Orlando Brown, before he got hurt, was playing at one of thehighest levels we've seen him play.He's not going to get much better than that level.Hopefully he's healthy.Hopefully the injury hasn't taken a toll on him.
26:55But I don't think he can get much better than the peak he showed last.year can certainly get better at guard but projecting improvement at guard with rookies or the sameguys is even difficult for me you might get marginal improvement there think ted's ted i don'tthink ted's getting significantly better at this point he's a solid player that's great and thenamarius you can certainly project a second year lead for so where you might get who knowsfrom the guard spots like i don't have a great feel for projecting improvement there thispoint. If you're thinking the offensive line is going to be the most improved unit,I think that comes down to Amari Smith. The secondary, you talked about, there's no change
27:37there. Any improvement you're projecting in the secondary is Dax is healthy and these guys are goingto develop and these guys are going to fit Al Golden system better.As Sunday Samuel Jr. comes in and balls out, baby.Right. Yep. Let's project that one and put secondary at the top. Yeah, like we're not doingthat, right? And so then defensive line is how much of a difference does it make havingnose tackle in T.J. Slayton. Shelton Mankins out, right? T.J. Slaytonand how much development do you get from Miles Murphy? How much development do you get fromJoseph Osai? Where is Shamar Stewart as a rookie? And then there's still a question around
28:13Trey Hendrickson a little bit. We're assuming Trey Hendrickson is part of this, right? Sodevelopment is driving most of these improvements. Like which positions, which players do you expectto develop. Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson,the addition of T.J. Slayton.Like, is that elevating the defensive line more than,you know, some of these other units? It's hard, like you said,but I think the way that I'm thinking about it is,which is the easiest to improve? And to me,
28:42that ends up being linebacker. I don't,it's the same guy leading it. It's the same guy.Yeah. And Logan Wilson.So that's what's so interesting to me. Like,Demetrius and I better be ready to go.go like that and he's your age so he should be good and ready to go but oh I'm sorrydemetrius I'll stop demetrius night is young he is a spring chicken compared to me they calledhim dunk in college no they did yes they did oh no you need to watch Cincinnati Bengals talk a
29:14little more and they they called him unk in college if you're 19 you know like a freshmansophomore and then you have him at 24 yeah I mean you'd call him unc too soSo the answer to these questions, because most, like, three of these positions are the entire defense and one of them is offensive line.It really ties into these other questions that we're not going to have time to really get into in depth.But Matthew Duffy and Huda Stan both asked, like, what's the realistic outlook on the defense?Or is Al Golden going to actually accomplish what he was brought here to do?I don't think it's possible to answer that question, right?in May, certainly, but like maybe not even in the first month of the season.
29:58These things don't necessarily happen overnight.Defense is highly volatile from year to year, much more so than certain offensive positionsthat are much more stable on a year to year basis and offensive output,much more stable on a year to year basis when they're common factors.But the answer to the where is the improvement coming from kind of comes down to the answerto the question, do you think Al Golden can do what he was brought here to do?Which is get more out of these various units on the defensive side of the ball with some of the staff changes that we've seen on defense.Yeah.
30:36Yeah, it's wild because we were limited to these position groups for the question, but I was just thinking, all right, let's expand this thing.Where are they better?And it goes right back to the coaches.And I think there's a larger conversation there.Write that down.Coaching pressure.We haven't done that one yet, even though it's been a topic for sure.That will be another topic that we hit.
31:02We have, but I mean.Just come up in like every single conversation we've had.But that's what I mean.I mean leading the show like, all right, well, which coach has the most like outside of just Zach in general?But like, which one are you the most confident in?I mean, there's a lot of angles to that.So it goes back to the beginning.We can end the way we started.
31:20Hey, improve the roster.How about that?Here's a wild idea.You believe in your coaching staff, great.Now improve the roster a little bit.Shocker, that could help them win football games.Talent.When you go position group by a position group,
31:36and maybe this is what we should have said for the full show, like you said,and try to find where are they better.Joe's probably a little better.Jbar and T are probably a little better.tight end room is depleted.They didn't add there.It's worse.You go through all the positions.
31:55Running back room, maybe that one.There's one.Running back is clearly better.Running back is way better.Yes.No doubt.There's one.We found one.
32:05But you go through it and these questions that I think throughout the process are like,are the Bengals getting better?Every team feels like they're getting better in the off season.But then when the off season is done,and you're going through your off-season program,you're going through rookie minicamp,you're getting into training camp,and you're like, are they better?
32:25Maybe a training camp question,but as of today,that's an interesting topic to explore as well.So something that we can dive into more in the futurein addition to the realistic outlook for the defenseand many other questions from this mailbagthat we did not get to in this episode.But we've got rookie minicamp coming up
32:46for your next episode.unless there's other breaking news to cover here on Lockdown Bengals.Until then, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.Ho day and have a good one.
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