Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Will Clevleand turn on the Browns? Battle Of Ohio First Look

Starting point is 00:00:00 When Paul Brown founded the Cincinnati Bengals, the Battle of Ohio could have been a marquee game every year in the NFL. This year's first Battle of Ohio, though, not looking like the shiniest matchup, but there's still stories to talk about and keys to victory. Let's break it down. You are locked on NFL crossover, part of the locked on podcast network. Your team every day. What's going on football fans, Browns fans, Bengals fans alike? This is a locked-on. NFL crossover. I'm Jake Liscoe, along with James Rapine from Lockdown Bengals, along with

Starting point is 00:00:44 Jeff Lloyd from Lockdown Browns to get you ready to go for the first Battle of Ohio of 2024 in Cleveland. And, well, it's not as exciting as it could have been. The AFC North in our season preview, we thought was going to be a hotly contested division. The way things have started for these teams, well, there's some work to do, let's say. Crossover Thursday is presented by prize picks. Download the app and use code Lockdown, NNNNN. NFL to win $50 instantly when you play $5. Welcome back to the everyday listeners. Shout out to those of you to make your locked on podcast, your first listen of the day.

Starting point is 00:01:19 We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, of course, on YouTube and everywhere. You get your podcast. And today we will break down the biggest stories in the first Battle of Ohio. We'll get to some keys to victory later in the show for each team. And Jeff, a day after the Amari Cooper trade, we are talking about the Bengals playing the Browns in Cleveland. the Browns refusing to make a quarterback change. These are the stories from the outside

Starting point is 00:01:42 that seem to be dominating discourse around the Cleveland Browns. What would you say are the biggest stories for the Browns offense today? Well, the thing is, and, you know, the quarterback in the NFL is always going to get probably too much credit or maybe too much blame. But look, in this case, the blame is certainly warranted. But if you look at this team overall, there is not a positional unit maybe besides linebacker

Starting point is 00:02:05 that is even performing close to where it. performed in 2023. Martin Emerson, Greg Newsom, they are having severe issues. The defensive line, Miles Garrett is hampered. He's playing through it. He's not himself, but the rest of that defensive line is not performing like they were in 2023. The offensive line, there's been weeks.

Starting point is 00:02:23 We've gone into Sunday at 1130 and not even known who the starting offensive line was. Whereas for, you know, and as you guys know, as much as we've done these episodes and as much as the Bengals have played Cleveland, you know who the starting line was every day. And we were talking years. It wasn't weeks. Season after season, it was the same offensive line. It was the same unit.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Changes there. David Najoku missed his time. Nick Chubb will finally make his return this week. The wide receivers are certainly not playing as well as they were last season. It's a mess right now. And I think each week they try to say, oh, well, maybe we'll do a little bit more of this. So there's no consistency in anything they're trying to do. They had a nice fourth quarter last week.

Starting point is 00:03:04 And guess what? had a shot in Philadelphia to tie the game. They get it to third. And I think it was third and goal from me about the four or the five yard line. You get a holding call. You get a false start. Next thing you know, you're kicking the field goal because it's just too great, you know, they couldn't take the chance on, you know, fourth and 20 of getting a touchdown.

Starting point is 00:03:21 You get the field goal. You never get the stop. You never get the ball back. So there's really nothing that this team can rely on or at least, you know, basically, you know, hang their hat on and say, all right, well, we can work around this because our defense is doing this. Or we can, you know, circumnavigate. that because the offense is able to that. They were able to run the ball a little bit better

Starting point is 00:03:38 last week. But there's weeks where they couldn't run. It's, there's just no rhyme or reason where this is going. And look, over the summer, you know, we didn't get to know much. You know, their top three tackles did not participate until September. They didn't even start practicing until then. Some of them just actually started physically playing last week in Jack Conklin. None of the skill players played in the summer. So it was hard to get a read on where anything was. And then you also got to keep in mind that this was a new offense coordinator, all new office. offensive coaches. So we never saw any of the guys who were eventually going to be the stars. We saw all the understudies. Nobody who's really playing now. And they weren't necessarily even

Starting point is 00:04:14 playing well over the summer. So it's, look, I don't know how it got this bad. You know, maybe, and I'm guilty, and I'm sure a lot of people are, that we just thought that maybe they're a little bit more consistent product these days. So once they got into it, they'd figure it out. But this team is a shell of what they were last year. They were shell or what they were the last couple of years. You know, is the quarterback a major issue? There's no question about it. But even still, I mean, if you're saying, oh, well, you know, is James Winston all of a sudden going to take this from a one and five team to say a four and two team? Yeah, maybe he didn't prove it a winner or two, but I'm not saying all of a sudden it's just going to change where

Starting point is 00:04:50 this team would have been 180 degrees. Let's discuss the defense a little bit because I think everyone is focused on the offense. And when they think of the Browns, they're thinking of the Sean Watson, the Mario Cooper trade, and Nick Chubbs return, which is obviously a big deal. But defensively here in Cincinnati, we certainly think about Miles Garrett and Denzel Ward and the unique blend of talent they have on that side of the ball. And yet, you said outside of linebacker, every position on the Browns has underachieve this year or not played up to the skill level that they did last year. Why?

Starting point is 00:05:31 Why do you think that is? How is Miles Garrett, this defensive front and this defense in general? How have they played through six weeks? Well, Miles, there's an issue. And Miles, when he was a kid, had issues with his feet and actually had surgery when was a kid. And apparently, you know, maybe we're talking 10, 12 years now. But apparently now this is something that's starting to resurface.

Starting point is 00:05:49 So the question is going to be, you know, how far is you going to go this year? You know, can he go the entire season? We don't know. And Miles is certainly not going to tip his hat on anything like that. but you would understand that if maybe the season, you know, when it is over, if it's not continuing, there's no reason to put him out there knowing that he's going to head for surgery anyway. But he's got four sacks. He had a nice game last week, obviously, another huge, tremendous block field goal,

Starting point is 00:06:09 had a couple of tackles for loss in the back field. But you can just see in his movement, he doesn't have all of what Miles Garrett is. Zadarius Smith, this is a move that, you know, a lot of people, they thought it was going to be better in here, too. I still think you see that maybe Zadari Smith a lot closer to the end than the beginning. Ogbenai Oka-Ranko was more effective last season. You lost, I thought Alex Wright was going to have a big jump here in year three. His season is over.

Starting point is 00:06:35 Isaiah McGuire, this is year two for him now. He's not getting a ton of run. You don't see much there other than a rotational player. Maurice Hurst missed a lot of time. He was a player last year that showed signs for them. You just got your second round pick, Mike Hall, last week for the first time this season. But you look at Martin Emerson and Greg Newsom, these guys were really, really struggling. And these guys really took to Jim Schwartz's system last year.

Starting point is 00:06:57 They were really good in man coverage. And this allowed Jim to do what he wanted to do, get after the quarterback. I'm going to play man coverage. Well, you know, the game, you know, Philly didn't have to do it. They pretty much had a game in hand. But they just went deep, basically just to kill the clock, got the first down to A.J. Brown. You know, Greg Newsom had no chance in covered him. You know, he had beaten Martin Emerson earlier in the game.

Starting point is 00:07:17 So, you know, Denzel can go wherever he wants. And they're starting to do that now. They're having Denzel basically trail one receiver, they never did. They had confidence in the other guys. But it kind of just makes it even easier. So it's okay, well, if Denzel's over there, we're just going to work left. Or Denzel's over here, we're just going to work to the right. We'll work around that.

Starting point is 00:07:34 They're just not playing as a unit. They're missing way too many tackles. And even last year, they did miss tackles, but they had hats to the football. So even if somebody missed a tackle, yeah, you had a mistackle, but the guy basically still got the same amount of yardage because you were coming two and three deep at the ball carrier or anybody with the ball in their hands at all time. It's just not like that right now. And, you know, certainly when a team is like they are at one in five, you're going to question effort.

Starting point is 00:08:00 I don't know if that's going to be the case where you're going to point it at all 53 guys. But, you know, there's times where you see some stuff that's just ultra sloppy. And it does, you know, it just brings up into your head, you know, are you into it? And a lot of it has to do with, you know, if you're in a locker room and if you don't have confidence in your own quarterback, you know, it makes it really difficult to go out there because you feel like you have to play up to a level of perfection. I think tackling will be an issue that we're both talking about a little bit this week, something that these teams may or may not have in common. We will continue with the biggest stories for the Cincinnati Bengals ahead of the first Battle of Ohio coming up next. Today's show is brought to you by Arena Club.

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Starting point is 00:10:47 You'll save an additional $20 on your first purchase. purchase, terms apply. Again, create an account and use code, a locked on NFL, L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N, NFL, for $20 off your purchase. You can download game time today. What time is it? Game time. All right, guys, let's talk about the big stories in Cincinnati this week. Still in desperation mode are the Cincinnati Bengals, James. You have, as you're sitting where Joe Burrow talked not too long ago, been in the building today as the Bengals are preparing for week seven. still very much the vibe that they're treating every week as a, we're still trying to find ourselves,

Starting point is 00:11:24 we still need to win this game however we can. And as we've talked about on lockdown Bengals this week, a game that for the Bengals could mirror some of the themes we saw in week six against the Giants. Yeah, for sure. It certainly could. And that will be a theme. Joe Burrell mentioned that as well.

Starting point is 00:11:39 I think from a vibe standpoint in the building and an urgency standpoint, and I think that would be the theme. Joe Burrow mentioned urgency a couple of times. When you're two and four and you're expecting to be really good and you still think you're really good, well, you've got to go show it. And the interesting balance between that and this matchup, Joe Burrow is one in five against the Browns.

Starting point is 00:12:05 Joe Burrow has not won in Cleveland, even though early in his career had a really great battle. I always mention it because people just say, oh, he's always struggled in Cleveland. It's probably one of his best games. to me in Cleveland a week to Thursday night matchup his rookie year against the Browns through 61 passes that game kind of carried them in a 3530 loss but he hasn't won in Cleveland and now the Browns backs are certainly against the wall and the Bengals backs are against the wall so something's got to come to a head here and so I think that that's the main sort of theme this week going into the game is one it's a must-werex win for the Bengals. At the same time, they have to get over this hump that even if they were six and oh would be discussed in this storyline of them being one in five in Joe Burroughs career when starting against the Browns and not winning up there. Lou Anarumo mentioned that to the defense. Hey, we haven't gone up there and won. And they have, but it's been games where

Starting point is 00:13:06 the Browns, I'm thinking, actually, no, they have, I was thinking they won, but they won the last Freddie Kitchens game, but that was here in Cincinnati. So yeah, they actually have never gone up there in one. I thought they had done one of those games, but I've never done it in the Zach Taylor era. But you look at it, though, and for me, you look at the life here of both teams. You know, I think I see more coming out of Cincinnati right now than I do, obviously, coming out of Cleveland. You know, I think Cincinnati maybe knew they were going to have some issues,

Starting point is 00:13:42 aka the defense, but basically when you're all in on the offensive side of the ball, Bengals are you going to understand that you're going to take your lumps, you're going to maybe have your deficiencies other where, other places rather. But how is that worth? Because I know the defense has obviously already suffered some losses of guys that they were actually hoping we're going to be guys that maybe we're going to step up this year. Yeah, I think defensively you lose Dax Hill and that's a big loss. But they're about as healthy as they've been since maybe Jake when you were in town.

Starting point is 00:14:16 I mean, in the middle of training camp, I mean, so you're talking August 6th, August 7th, they really are. Because Miles Murphy went down shortly after that, and they lose BJ Hill and Sheldon Rankin's week two. They lose McKinley Jackson. Were you here when McKinley got hurt, Jake? I was. I did see him walk over to the car right in front of me. There's also the Sam Hubbard injury while I was in town that he's still dealing with. Are you left back or no?

Starting point is 00:14:44 Yeah, I don't know. But that's the point is this defense. Yeah, they were awful. There was a stretch where they were just really bad. But they were also nicked up. And clearly depth is an issue. But they are as healthy as they've been all season and even dating back to the early stages of training camp. So can they keep Deshaun Watson down?

Starting point is 00:15:09 Can they not let Nick Chub look like Nick Chubb? pre-knee injury right away, right? Those are two huge, huge things that they, honestly, they have to do, I think, because we know how this Browns defense matches up with this Bengals offense. It has always been an issue. And when I look at the Bengals defense, Jeff, in particular, one of the things I'm looking at this week is the Browns have been a futureed offense this year, statistically, by like every measure. One of the worst Browns offense is happening, as Austin Gale has pointed out, each week when, after asking the Browns to make a quarterback change.

Starting point is 00:15:46 Just make the quarterback change, guys. Just do it. Fight the bullet. And they continue to not go in that direction. Meanwhile, the Bengals have played against the Chiefs, the Ravens, the Washington commanders. Some of the higher producing offenses in the NFL this year, those have been some of their worst games. They also had issues with the Andy Dalton Panthers.

Starting point is 00:16:04 It wasn't as bad as those other three games. And that's a bit of a worrisome one. But those were games where they were also quite injured or sustaining injuries. So as James points out, when it was a lot of it, when you look at this matchup, it's not just a, can the Bengals defense play better? It's, well, maybe there's an answer there about the quality of the opponent. Maybe they can string performances together against some offenses that are less complete, less explosive in the Giants and the Browns now this week.

Starting point is 00:16:33 But the skepticism around the defense persists. And I think even though the Browns have played as the Browns have this year, the Bengals going to Cleveland, given their recent history in that environment, there's still concerns around how this defense is going to play even this week. Yeah, but I think part of it, though, is, yeah, the Browns haven't been home in three weeks. And so obviously these people are going to really, really excited. But I don't think it's going to have anything to do with the crowd's, you know, loudness towards Cincinnati.

Starting point is 00:17:09 I think it's going to have to do with them setting their frustrations out. on the home team. You know, I can only imagine what it's going to be like when number four comes out of the tunnel is introduced. Because, look, these people did not like him to begin with. And it was one of those things. Look, you can not like something. But if it's working, you'll find a way to swallow it. That's not where they're at.

Starting point is 00:17:33 And, you know, I honestly thought maybe it would be better for Cleveland to go on a three game, you know, basically, you know, road trip to get away. But it's only gotten significantly worse. each and every week. So, you know, the hostility is probably going to be at an all-time level. I mean, we could be talking a crowd, you know, similar to maybe like the Hugh Jackson era because they're aggravated. And, you know, all the stuff. And, you know, it does this hold the franchise back further down the road?

Starting point is 00:18:00 It doesn't, if Jimmy just wants to keep opening up his wallet, it doesn't. Because if he wants to do that, it's not going to hold up the way the roster is structured. But, you know, everybody's frustrated. Everybody's aggravated, you know, and to sit here and come on every day. and say, I don't understand why you continually start Deshaun Watson. You know, I did open to show a postgame show the other day. It was basically the definition of insanity. You know, when you repeat the same thing, nothing changes, but you expect to get different results.

Starting point is 00:18:27 You know, even still, if you went out there and said, you know what, Deshawn just played left-handed this week. Let's just try something different. But you paid James Winston $4 million. James Winston, yeah, 5,000-yard passer, pro bowler, has played more recently and had some success when Deshauner. Watson was not within the league. I don't. And the thing is with James's, James knows he's not athletic. So he's not going to leave ghost pressure. He'll take the beating and he'll do everything he can to get the ball off.

Starting point is 00:18:55 He's just not going to take the ball and look to tuck it and run. And the problem is you get in that what the Sean has is, now he has no conception of what is a clean pocket or when he is actually truly being pressured. I think that's how mentally confused he is right now. And, you know, it just, again, it's just. and Nick Chubb comes back. So that should be a great moment for, you know, a few minutes on Sunday. But the fact of the matter is, you know, what is you going to get?

Starting point is 00:19:20 Seven, eight touches. I don't think anybody expects, you know, Nick Chubb's just going to come in here after that catastrophic injury and all of a sudden be the guy that can go for 20. It's unrealistic. It'll be fascinating to see the crowd element of this play out. That crowd has historically been a thorn in the side of the Bengals on these road trips to Cleveland and the way you're talking about them. If they get up, if they get up, they'll cheer for them.

Starting point is 00:19:43 But they are, they are ready, trust me, they are ready, ready to unleash on Sunday, wait if it doesn't go well. That's a bit of foreshadowing as we get into our keys to victory. We will do that coming up next. This crossover episode is sponsored by Fandall, which is the best place to get your NFL bets in this weekend or before the line in this game is growing in Cincinnati's favor. The Bengals now six and a half point road dogs in Cleveland,

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Starting point is 00:21:01 And no, Cleveland will not score in all four quarters. Let's talk about those keys to victory. If Cleveland does score in all four quarter, quarters. Well, the Bengals may be in trouble, but Jeff, from your perspective, as you think about how the Browns could carve out a path to victory in this game at home, their first home game, as you mentioned, in what, five weeks, I guess, four weeks, depending on the way you think about that. What are the three things the Browns need to go right to win this game? I'm going to start with this and trying to be positive. The Bengals don't have much film to go off

Starting point is 00:21:34 of here, because what have you seen from the Browns to this point? You've seen 12, 13, targets a week throwing it to Marry Cooper. They're not throwing that much because Deshaun Watson's getting sacked a lot. You know, it's going to be a little bit difficult to game plan because, you know, you don't know what to expect from Jerry Judy, Cedric Tillman's figures to see more snaps, Elijah Moore, David Adjoku's back, Nick Chubb is, of course, back. The rookie Jumari thrash should get some run. So basically, the Bengals are going to have to be the guinea pig for whatever the Browns are for the next couple of weeks. You know, I don't expect all of a sudden we're going to see, you know, the billwash playbook come out and all of a sudden things are

Starting point is 00:22:06 going to look hunky dory. But again, you know, it's a little. the Bengals are basically just going to have to play straight up and see what's coming at them. So that was an advantage that maybe the Browns do have for them. The other advantage is, look, in games like this, this is a good opportunity for both teams because you don't really have to overthink it. These two rosters know each other extremely well. You know, they know what the Bengals can give them. The Bengals know what the Browns can give them.

Starting point is 00:22:30 So, yeah, it could be an advantage for somebody. It's certainly going to be a disadvantage for somebody else, obviously, in this game. But it sounds so sad to say. but put together consistency, put together four quarters of football, things that carry over. You know, there's been times where, you know, last week you get to half, 10, 10, all right, things look really good, right? All right, they got the ball, second half. They're already at the 30.

Starting point is 00:22:53 Hey, it's third in inches. All right, James is on. Here comes the QB sneak. No, we run a jet sweep to Cedric Tillman, who hasn't touched the ball in three weeks. You know, like you just find a way to shoot yourselves in the foot or you overthink it you just try to be more than you are. Keep it simple, stupid, simple. Just go out there and play the game.

Starting point is 00:23:16 You know, understand what you have for Nick and what you don't. It's probably going to be two to three touches per quarter at best. Work around that. But, you know, it's said that you have to go to like the simplicity of this, but that's really where the Browns are at. It's literally making sure you tied both shoes correctly before you get on the field. And make sure that you have a left and a right shoe. As we continue to review our keys to,

Starting point is 00:23:39 victory in crossover Thursday presented by prize fix. You can download the app and use code locked on NFL to win $50 instantly with your first $5 play. James, your thoughts on any of the keys of victory that Jeff mentioned or the keys for the Bengals themselves. Yeah, I think tying your shoes is important. I think the Browns will be good there. As far as the Bengals are concerned, let's start here.

Starting point is 00:24:02 You have to start fast. The Bengals get their butts kicked by the Browns every time they don't start fast. they get behind and Baker Mayfield after Odell Beckham Jr. leaves gets into a rhythm after releasing Odell Beckham Jr. or last year, this defense can get downhill and the Bengals are in dropback passing situations. So that's number one. Number two is being efficient on the ground. You don't have to be super, it would be great to be explosive and average 10 yards of carry. But if you're getting four and a half yards of carry and efficient and you're giving Joe Burroughs second and five, or third and two, that's much, much different than we've seen in past matchups.

Starting point is 00:24:44 And I think that's a huge one. And then number three, it is making sure that the Browns crowd hates Deshaun Watson, hates number four more at halftime than they do when he's introduced like Jeff mentioned. So what does that mean? Not let him get into a rhythm. Make sure that you're all over him, that he's thrown incompletes, that he's uncomfortable, and whether that's Sheldon Rankin's having a big day, and I think he's due for a big day at some point as a pass rusher.

Starting point is 00:25:13 Obviously, we know what Trey Hendrickson brings, B.J. Hill coming off of probably his best game as a Bengal. This defensive front needs to get home, and along with that, obviously, it means don't let Nick Chubb have the magical Disney-like comeback in his first game back. He can have that next week. You don't want him to have it this week. So much, much easier said than done.

Starting point is 00:25:35 and they all go pretty hand in hand because if you're starting fast, you're probably at least efficient on the ground. You're getting off the field early on defense by pressuring Watson and taking care of Nick Chubb. So it all goes hand in hand, but I think those are the three things that Bengals need to do to get the first winning Cleveland of the Joe Burrow era. Yeah, I just want to underline taking advantage of this Cleveland offensive line in the departure of Bill Callahan to Tennessee to go coach for his son. that offensive line with personnel changes, with injuries, with the departure of their coach, with the quarterback play, with all of the things going wrong with that Brown's offense right now is one of the more vulnerable offensive lines I've played this year.

Starting point is 00:26:16 Go back to week one against New England for the last, I would say very questionable offensive line. Trey Henderson against Jedrick Wills on the left side there is a big one that I'm circling. And you talk about turning the crowd or taking the crowd out of it or whatever you want to call it. You can do that by consistently disrupting Deshaun Watson back there. For sure. I think they, regardless of Chubb, you don't want him to get even semi-comfortable back there. And you want him, in games like this, you want the crowd to get uneasy quick. And then it just feels like that weight that is on these player's shoulders gets that much bigger.

Starting point is 00:27:00 Of course. And it's the same way, the other way, for the Browns. If you get off to a good start, then that weight of one in five against the Browns, not winning in Cleveland, that on the Bengal shoulders gets bigger. And so I think that that early on in this game, whoever's getting that weight off their shoulders and feeling good and making plays, that's going to be the team that probably wins this first matchup in the Battle of Ohio this year. Yeah, you mentioned the fast starts. And I just think of Miles Garrett getting the tee off, even if he is a little bit diminished, he's still a freak and still a real. and still a really great player or the Browns not having to put the ball

Starting point is 00:27:35 on Deshawn Watson's hands and just getting behind a run game. And that's the way these games have really gotten away from the Bengals. In addition to turnovers, which are obviously things that both teams will want to take care of in this game.

Starting point is 00:27:46 For more on this game, you can check out Locked-on Bengals and Locked-on Browns on their respective YouTube pages or podcast streams wherever you get your podcast. And that's going to do it for this crossover Thursday.

Starting point is 00:28:00 Thanks so much to listening. to the Locked-on Podcast Network.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - Will Clevleand turn on the Browns? Battle Of Ohio First Look

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