Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - With all signs pointing to Al Golden for Bengals Defensive Coordinator, did they search hard enough for their next DC?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Zach Taylor will meet with Al Golden on Wednesday to talk about the Bengals defensive coordinator job, but that seems like it's all but golden's. Let's break it down. You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. I'm your host, Jake Liscoe. He's your host, James Rupin. We are locked on Bengals on the Lockdown Podcast. Podcast Network covering your team every day. We're on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:00:41 We're everywhere you get your podcast. And if you're new to the show, you can hit subscribe to make sure you don't hit miss an episode. Yesterday, we spent a whole lot of time talking about Scott Peters. And we'll circle back to Scott Peters at the end of today's episode with the additional information that we've uncovered about the Bengals new offensive line coach and a little bit more about his background, a little bit more of what we've learned. Since the hire was announced and we immediately recorded the previous episode of Lockdown

Starting point is 00:01:06 Bengals. Of course, the national championship game of college football in the books. Everyone watched Al Golden's defense against Ohio State. Many reactions were, surely, they can't hire this guy. So that we have talked about. We'll cover again. And it sounds like this will be formalized very likely in the immediate future here. But probably not on Tuesday as we record this episode, James.

Starting point is 00:01:33 And we have an idea of what's to come for Al Gold. and the DC interview for the Bengals. Yeah, I was so shocked when national media on Monday night announced that the Bengals were interested in Al Golden and that the national media said, Zach Taylor has paused the search. I was so surprised that that happened just for Al Gore. No, I'm just kidding.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Our everyday is obviously not surprised. As far as the timeline, shout out to Paul Dayner Jr. He was the first on this. Al Golden is going to be in town Wednesday, maybe late Tuesday night. but and we're going to get into the net that has been cast or not cast the search but before I do that I will say this in in the way they've handled and I've seen some ugly outs especially the way college football used to be you think about how Brian Kelly left think about how some of these

Starting point is 00:02:26 coaches at Butch Jones some of these coaches leave and I'm just naming those two because they were in Cincinnati. The way Al Golden and the Bengals and Notre Dame has handled this, knowing for a week plus that he was coming here, knowing for a week plus that it was getting now behind the scenes. I'm not saying everybody knew it for a week. But behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure Al Golden knew that the Tuesday slash Wednesday after the national championship game, he would be in Cincinnati and he would be meeting with Bengals Brass. And there would be a real realistic possibility that he would return to the place that he coached in 2020 and 2021 and be their defensive coordinator.

Starting point is 00:03:05 Like I think that's been the case for quite some time now. And I think they've handled it about as well as you can so much so that if you think about it, you didn't see any of the national leaks until after that national championship game. So I just wanted to start there because I think that part of the process has been handled well by all parties involved. Yeah, I agree. But was it after the national championship game or was it technically like as a national championship game was ending?

Starting point is 00:03:36 Like it was the one second left on the clock or did they wait for it to hit double zeros, you know? Well, it was funny because they went into the, in Ohio State as national champions. Oh my goodness. And there's still one play. There's still time. And Notre Dame gets off one more play. Yeah, I think it was with one second left. That play was still going on.

Starting point is 00:04:02 And NFL network hit fire, which that's their job. Fine. But I do think that it's funny. That the worst kept, I mean, anyone that listens to any Bengals podcast or coverage pays attention knew what the deal was. And so for it to be handled the way it was, even afterwards, Al Golden really handled the questions. Like, I can't, I can't even think about that right now.

Starting point is 00:04:32 I'm sick from these guys. And he probably, like, why wouldn't you be? Just because you like the next opportunity doesn't mean you don't want to have success right now. And that's such a tough balance. And I do think that he's handled that part of it. Considering for about a week now, Jake, we've known what the deal is. And there was suspicion well before that, but like it was confirmed. Yeah, and I was in denial of that suspicion.

Starting point is 00:04:54 probably within a week. Like I think maybe six days ago, I was no longer in denial, but maybe a week ago, like somewhere around a week ago was when it was like, okay, yeah, looks like a Sal Golden.

Starting point is 00:05:07 But before that, I was like, maybe they're waiting for one of these assistants to still coaching a playoff team. You know, the Rans connection with Steve Klinkscale or, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:16 name a guy, right? Jim Leonard. Yeah, Jim Leonard. There's so many that I think fans would, have liked to have seen the Bengals at least talk to. Chuck Bresden. That is, sorry, who?

Starting point is 00:05:32 Former Bengals defensive coordinator that no one wanted to talk to. Go ahead. You said Chuck Bresenhan. So the criticism throughout the game, because while the national reporter's like, yeah, the Bengals are honing in or zeroing it or whatever verbiage they use on. Oh my God, that's Paul Gunther's music. Okay, go ahead. On Al Golden, every Bengals fan watching that game is like scrutinizing the play calls

Starting point is 00:05:59 and trying to figure out in their first exposure for many of them to Al Golden, like, oh, what's our DC doing, right? Like, they've knew the entire game. So that's part of what's hilarious about it. But there's also all this frustration happening in that conversation from different people, right? I recognize that it's not a monolith that, oh, man, well, did the Bengals really do? their best here. Did they try to talk to Robert Sala? Did they try to talk to Dennis Allen? Did they try to talk to XYZ, whoever your preferred candidate was, even if you have excuses for

Starting point is 00:06:32 those two, where Allen, maybe he was hitched to Ben Johnson a while ago and we didn't know it yet, although it sounds like that was the decision between Luana Rima and Dennis Allen. Robert Sala's head coach or San Francisco, whatever. Maybe it's Jim Lennar, maybe it's name your guy. I think that's a fair question. And it's one that we talked about on this show. five days ago or something like that, and I had a rant about, this process doesn't feel exhaustive. It doesn't feel like the right process

Starting point is 00:07:02 to try to find a defensive coordinator that you have to get right. That doesn't mean it's wrong. It doesn't mean that Al Golden is a bad coach. It doesn't mean that he will be the wrong hire for the Bengals. We have no idea how any of these guys would have worked out as defensive coordinator for the Bengals, quite frankly, because you never know how that fit is going to work

Starting point is 00:07:21 when a major coach lands with a new team. You never know until it's reality. 99% of the time anyway. Sometimes it's obvious, it's a bad hire. We've seen that in the past, but also things that have looked like, obviously bad hires have turned out to be good hires. So the point is we don't know,

Starting point is 00:07:38 but I think it's legitimate. I think it's reasonable to be objection, to have an objection to the way the Bengals went about doing it where they did a couple of interviews, which you could argue were just to fulfill the Rooney rule, requirements and we don't know. Patrick Graham, we think, was a serious candidate. He is. I know he is. Yeah. And then they just landed on Al Golden, which we theorized last week, or I don't remember when exactly it was. Like, maybe that was kind of the discussion that

Starting point is 00:08:08 Zach Taylor had when Golden was leaving the Bengals for Notre Dame in the first place. Like, well, if Lou goes, we'd love to have you back as DC. Like, maybe that's where this started, right? And so it feels like there's this preordained process for Al Golden where he was who they wanted. And so there's pros and cons to not expanding that search, but it doesn't feel great because the Bengals and Bengals fans have seen this happen before. Yeah, a lot of people are going to say that. And I tend to agree, right? No different than Dan Pitcher, if that's the case, though. Everyone likes Dan Pitcher.

Starting point is 00:08:43 No different. There was no one else in the building. No one else in the league. The moment Brian Callahan got a job elsewhere, the Bengals were all in on keeping Dan pitcher in town as offensive coordinator. They weren't going to cast this wide net. They knew their guy. They had him and they went and got him.

Starting point is 00:09:01 And so that's tough for me because I agree. Robert Sala especially. Dennis Allen's a big name. I don't think he's held in high regard in league circles based on who I've talked to as a guy like Robert Sala who's still in the mix for. defensive coordinator job. I do think that that Graham had a real shot at this job and had multiple fans in the building. But the fit, the familiarity, I think all of that with Al Golden, I think that factored in. And people hate that. But that's part of why Dan pitcher is here.

Starting point is 00:09:42 And so just not arguing with you, but couldn't you say that the offensive coordinator process was flawed last year? I mean, it was all hands on deck to keep Dan the moment Brian got his head coaching job. It was, let's find a way, right? And so that would be my pushback is as long as you get it right, it doesn't matter. But to your point, you got to get it right. It doesn't feel great. You had extra time. Al Golden was just busy coaching.

Starting point is 00:10:12 had time to interview other guys. And so let's continue the conversation. I think there's a bit more here. We will do that coming up next. Today's show is brought to by Fandul. Championship Sunday is almost here. It's my favorite NFL day on the calendar. Even more exciting for me, at least, than the Super Bowl, because you get two games. You get two games, and I think a lot of you are probably rooting for the bills, so maybe you're going to wager on the bills. Well, Fandle makes the NFL playoffs in Championship Sunday as exciting as it can be. Right now, Newcastle. customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win your first bet. There's $300 to keep the action going.

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Starting point is 00:11:14 simple, fandul.com. That's right. Fanul.com to join today and get started with $300 in bonus bets. That's fandle.com make the NFL playoffs unforgettable with Fandle, official sportsbook partner of the NFL. I think there's more to this conversation because you bring up a good point with the damn pitcher point. And you can look around league history for DC promotions from within that turned out to be great hires. First time, defensive coordinator promotions have turned out to be great hires.

Starting point is 00:11:46 Of course, this isn't a promotion because Al Golden went to Notre Dame. But one of the other common criticisms is, well, they could have hired a defensive coordinator in the NFL, who we knew was a good defensive coordinator in the NFL already because they've been a defensive coordinator in the NFL. And Al Golden has not. When he was with the Bengals, and this is Elise Jesse reporting from, I guess, three, four years ago now. 2020. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:12:12 I guess longer than that. It's 2020. No, no, I'm just, I saw the tweet too. So that, no, I'm just saying, 20. No, I, I just, it's just funny. Time goes, goes fast. The point is, when he was with the Bengals, he, he had a lot of responsibility for money downs for this team. And a bigger than normal responsibility for a linebacker's coach.

Starting point is 00:12:38 That's, that's part of why he was so valued with the Bengals. And I do think that there is. we talked about this as well, a potential succession plan for Golden in Cincinnati before Lou stuck around a little bit longer than maybe they thought he might without getting a head coaching job when he was in the head coaching cycle a couple of times. So there are a lot of reasons this could be the right hire. We simply don't know. And so what people are reacting to is there were bigger NFL names available. They didn't even try to talk to them. by most accounts.

Starting point is 00:13:15 Maybe they tried to talk to Matt Eberfluse is the one that came up as connected with the Bengals at some point. But so did Link Martindale, and that was very quickly shut down. So we don't really know. There wasn't an interview with Eber Fluse as far as we know.

Starting point is 00:13:27 Zimmer's name came up as well. The fact that they didn't talk to these names, I think, rubbed some Bengals fans the wrong way. And that's fine. But there's also the chance that Zach knows Golden very well, that he's getting it right.

Starting point is 00:13:43 And so I look at it this way. The Bengals need to get this right. Or Zach, his tenure in Cincinnati potentially on the line if next season doesn't go well. If the defense doesn't get it right next year again and they miss the playoffs again, Zach is in extremely hot water, right? So he's motivated to get it right. He's comfortable with it, obviously. And the Bengals front office is then giving Zach enough rope to sink or swim to hang or save himself, right?

Starting point is 00:14:22 And I think that's part of what's happening here as well, where the familiarity should ease the transition, should lead to an understanding and being on the same page of Zach about what kind of goals they want to have for the defense stylistically. And whether or not that works is what we'll have to see when it meets reality. and the plan comes into contact with time. Yeah, I think, man, let's see. Because there's a lot there. Would I have praised them for going after Robert Sala? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:15:02 That doesn't mean they didn't do their due diligence. And I think part of why people think about those big names is because the money aspect. And, man, this is going to be, me caping for the Bengals the entire episode. I would have, by the way, we have it on a show. I would have talked to Robert Sala, just to be clear. Like, this isn't hindsight.

Starting point is 00:15:23 This isn't me saying, oh, well, Al Golden's better than all these guys. Because I actually don't know. But Al Golden isn't the cheap way. Let's be clear here. Al Golden is making $2.5 million on average per year from Notre Dame. He's not taking a pay cut to come to Cincinnati. And let's just say he did, right? He's still going to make more than Lou.

Starting point is 00:15:44 There's no way he's not. And, you know, maybe the Bengals were like, oh, yeah, we know Lou's going to get a job so that I'll counteract whatever money we owe him, and it won't matter as much. But they signed up to pay Lou because they didn't know. And they probably had a good idea that Al Golden might be the guy and that they were going to have to spend there.

Starting point is 00:16:04 Or Patrick Graham, who's been a defensive coordinator in three different places, who was a very legitimate candidate, like I said, in a real contender. And so, we'll see if they get it right, but this isn't them being cheap. I think there's a difference between the two. And I would have had questions about anyone they interviewed

Starting point is 00:16:22 or anyone they ended up hiring, because there are always questions, right? You just don't know how it's going to fit. I do understand, though, the perception and the perception of, oh, well, we're bringing in our former guy. And it just, when you say that, it feels very bengalzy. and Taylor E like that part of Taylor fits in with the Bengals quite well like he he likes his guys by the way I I get it I understand going with what you know relying with them and people

Starting point is 00:16:58 you bank on in that you know are good coaches and you know are reliable and you know because you know when you don't go with what you know sometimes you get burned and this is not the time for Taylor to get burned it's got to be the opposite to your point I I also think that if you just kind of say it out loud with what Al Golden is, you're talking about arguably the best college defensive coordinator this year. And for the past couple of years, has been very successful at Notre Dame, as college head coaching experience, as NFL coaching experience, there's a lot to like. You know his style in a good way. You mentioned the responsibility that he had in 2020 when things were falling apart for Lou falling apart in 2020 everyone in

Starting point is 00:17:48 that building was walking on eggshells probably isn't the right term but they they all thought they were probably getting fired like they didn't know and they brought them back obviously and things worked out and then they go on a Super Bowl run and everyone gets extensions and things change perception changes of that staff and rightfully so but maybe Al Golden is just the right hire, and they did do their back channel due diligence, but they always felt like he would be one of these guys that was at the top of their list. And I can't necessarily knock them for it, but they better get it right, if that makes sense. In six months, more than six months, in 10 months, if they stink on defense, well, then

Starting point is 00:18:30 they might have gotten it wrong, and it's fair to say. And it's fair to question it now. but I also see why they land on gold and assuming they do land on golding, which I think everyone knows that it's safe to assume. Yeah, it goes back to some of the same things that we talked about with Scott Peters, the ability to develop and get the most out of players and be adaptable to the players available to you and try a whole bunch of different things

Starting point is 00:18:56 and overcome a lot of injury where they had a great run in the college football playoff until that Ohio State game, despite being down, a bunch of their best players on defense and just trying to make it work. Even in that Ohio State game where there's a massive athletic disparity between the offensive players on the field for Ohio State and the defensive players on the field for Notre Dame. It felt to me watching that game, like Notre Dame was in good position quite often, that they tried a bunch of things.

Starting point is 00:19:24 They emptied the clip and tried to find answers to an Ohio State offense that is very hard to have answers to an Ohio State team that's going to have like, it might set record this year for most players drafted and that doesn't include perhaps the best player on the team in Jeremiah Smith and that is a play call that I'm sure we're going to have to talk about here in just a second, the zero blitz at the end of that game that a lot of people didn't like. But I did find this quote that I found fascinating and this is an article from Ryan Roberts who was covering the imminent departure for Al Golden. He said it was once an unconventional hire but Coach Golden became the best that Marcus Freeman has made at Notre Dame.

Starting point is 00:20:07 His impact on the program can't be undersold and he will be missed tremendously. That is the opinion of someone covering Notre Dame. And I think there's a lot of that sentiment from those close with Notre Dame and that follow that team closely, that he was a great coach there that got the most out of his guys that was adaptable. And when you combine that with a familiarity, that Zach has. You can see, you can make a case for Golden's a good coach. This higher makes sense. But it's just always going to have this undertone, James, of the net that was cast or wasn't cast. We'll wrap up that conversation and add what we've learned a little bit more information

Starting point is 00:20:48 about the Bengals' new offensive line coach, Scott Peters, to finish up the show coming up next. Therapy is a game changer. It can help manage stress, improve sleep, communicate more effectively finding the right therapists and fitting sessions into a busy schedule can be challenging. That's where Talkspace comes in. Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider makes getting the help you need easy, accessible and affordable. But Talkspace signing up is simple. You can match with a licensed therapist who fits your needs, usually within 48 hours, and it's convenient.

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Starting point is 00:21:56 Talkspace.com slash Lockdown NFL and using promo code. code space 80. The definition of myopia to me, James, is watching the way Ohio State scored on Notre Danes defense in that national championship game and saying, you know what, I don't want Al Golden. You can have plenty of reasons to not want Al Golden or to object to the higher. But if your reason is based on just this one game, I don't find that to be particularly persuasive.

Starting point is 00:22:27 But that being said, a lot of criticism over that zero blitz call. that leaves Jeremiah Smith one-on-one with a game on the line and a third and long at the end of the game. What are your overall takeaways from watching that Ohio State victory over Notre Dame? Offense wins championships. Man, when you have an elite offense like that, I don't even think that Ohio State quarterback Howard's that good. But everyone else outside of maybe, would you say?

Starting point is 00:22:58 He played well. no doubt and when you you surround him with those weapons it's like Jared golf right like an elite offense for the lines but I never bought into Jared golf this year I remember talking to Bengals players like at their locker and they're like oh what do you think about the line I'm like yeah Jared golf and same thing here but in college it's a bit different of course and so it's much harder to contain so I thought Al Golden tried a bunch of different things and it's tough. It's tough when you're limited offensively like they are.

Starting point is 00:23:32 It's tough when you're going up against a juggernaut of an offense like Ohio State is. The thing that I like is it's not like they mailed it in. Like a lot of those national championship games when it's like that or bowl games that are like that where it's like, oh, Ohio State is up 21. They're going to cruise to a 40-point victory. And it was the opposite. Notre Dame scored. and then they force the fumble and then hang around and you look up and you're right they get to that third and

Starting point is 00:24:02 11 after multiple stops in the fourth quarter and when the blitz doesn't get home jake it looks bad and it looks real bad when your corner gets beat like a drum i mean i that's a tough spot and now if the blitz gets home feel much differently but i i do question that one because i would have tried make well Howard read the defense sit there for a second wait on his second read maybe wait on his third read and hope either the pressure gets home or he makes a mistake versus all right let's try to get get there to the quarterback before jeremiah smith gets open one-on-one downfield they got pressure home six times on 25 tries that was a huge issue for that defense i mean they're down three of their best pass rushers to injury.

Starting point is 00:24:59 And they just could not get pressure the entire night. They got a couple of blitzes in there that got home. But for the most part, when they tried to blitz, when they didn't blitz, it was hard. And in that spot, I think no matter what the play call was for Notre Dame, if Ohio State converts it, there would be a contingent of Bengals fans out there watching it that says he couldn't, he didn't get the right call in with the game on. the line. One of the criticisms of that call is that they didn't keep a safety over the top on that zero blitz. It's just like, yeah, if you want a blitz, fine, but keep a safety back.

Starting point is 00:25:35 Don't go zero. Keep a safety over Jeremiah Smith and let everyone else blitz. If they did that, well, maybe the ball doesn't go to Jeremiah Smith, but the slot quarter literally falls down. And the slot receiver for Ohio State would be within 15-yard, will have a 15-yard bubble with nobody else around him. I mean, you can't win if you're going to blitz there. And blitzing in a critical third and 11, like that's never a bad decision in a vacuum. Maybe you don't like that they didn't keep a safety over Jeremiah Smith.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Fine, but like I said, there's another way they could lose there. I think that you credit Notre Dame's defense before that on that drive to finding the right calls at the right times to get Ohio State to that third and 11. and this is a Notre Dame defense which doesn't have a strength of defending the run and that was an issue for them they gave up a 70-yard run and Travion Henderson at times just looked like so much of a better athlete than anybody on on Notre Dame's team

Starting point is 00:26:38 I like him running back talk running back talk maybe both of those running back with fun but this is a team that like they're down 31 to 71 yep 31 7 24 I said 21 yeah 28 to 7 And then their offense turns it over on downs. They don't give up yards. They force a field goal after that. After their offense turns it over on downs in their own territory. They get that big fumble, the very next drive. They force a punt the next drive after they missed a field goal.

Starting point is 00:27:09 Yep. And then the game ends the way it ends. Ohio State ends up kicking a field goal to put it out of reach. I mean, I think you have to give them some credit for fighting back. Yeah. Despite getting punched in. the mouth early. And it was ugly for them early. Like they, they could not find answers. But like I said, to me watching it, it felt like so much of that was guys in position to make plays and then just

Starting point is 00:27:35 getting their heads dribbled off the ground because Ohio State was bigger, stronger, and faster. Yep. And that's what I expected. I think that's what a lot of people expected. And we talked about it going into that game. Like, yeah, people are going to judge Al Golden's defense, probably haven't paid attention. Now they're going to pay attention. It's a stack deck. But to end it the way they did, which is overall pretty solid. Now, again, the Jeremiah Smith play, it's tough. It's a tough situation. You're trying to find answers the whole time, trying to get off the field. And I really wanted the football fan in me. This has nothing to do without Golden. Really wanted Notre Dame to get the ball back with a chance to tie. That's like peak. Oh my goodness. I can't believe they're still in this.

Starting point is 00:28:17 their offense stinks, but they're finding a way. You know, it would have been fun. Not that they would have scored and got the two-point conversion. It would have been shocked. But it would have been possible. And so, yeah, I was pleasantly surprised as a football fan watching their fight in the second half. And going into that game, I had already said, I don't really, no matter what happens to like, you can make little judgments, but I'm not going to say, oh, Al Golden's going to be a great

Starting point is 00:28:43 defensive coordinator for the Bengals. What if they had shut the Buckeyes down? Ten points. and it's like Buckeyes versus Michigan and that's what it looks like where they just kind of turtle up and that's it and they win the game. Does that mean how Golden's going to be a great

Starting point is 00:28:56 defensive coordinator for the Bengals? It doesn't. It would feel great, right? I think for Bengals fans would be so exciting national championship DC and then you flip it. This result, it doesn't change it either.

Starting point is 00:29:09 And it's one of those things where I can't, I know I usually have really strong takes. can't really have too strong of a take here. I don't feel strongly enough about, will I how Golden be good or not. I see why they're hiring him. I see why people wanted other big names. I'm not sure if he's going to be good or not. I see why he could be good. We'll see if he is good. I mean, it's pretty simple and bare bones when I look at this and analyze it. But no, I think the main takeaway is they still fought and kept themselves in the game when they could have easily

Starting point is 00:29:47 given up 50 and mailed it in and been thinking about their next NIL deal or hitting the portal or any and everything that comes with being a college player these days. Well, there are a whole lot of six-year players, so there's no portal waiting for them on that defense. Or playing for Al Golden and Cincinnati because they all knew. Think about that, too. They knew their defensive coordinators leaving. The issue with any one-game judgment is it's one game.

Starting point is 00:30:13 Notre Dame held Georgia's 31.6 point per game SEC offense to 10 points in this college football playoff. Boise State's 37.3 point per game offense to 24 points in this college football playoffs. Indiana's 41 point per game offense to 17. And then they face Ohio State and they gave up more points. Can't judge one game. I think, Jay, as we ran out of time to dive into the additional information that we learned about Scott Peters, the Bengals' new offensive line coach is a fascinating background. I do want to talk about a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:30:49 Made a rare transition from trainer to NFL offensive line coach. And Willie Anderson has talked a lot about this. So listen to him a little bit yesterday, talk about his thoughts on Scott Peters in the background there and asked him a few questions. Talk to some NFL sources as well about what the Bengals are getting in Scott Peters. That was all after he recorded. So hopefully we have some time.

Starting point is 00:31:11 to talk about that a little bit more at some point here as well. But unfortunately, ran out of time to do that today. So until next time, thanks for listening to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Ho day and have a good one.

Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals - With all signs pointing to Al Golden for Bengals Defensive Coordinator, did they search hard enough for their next DC?

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