Locked On Broncos - Daily Podcast On The Denver Broncos - Denver Broncos Convincing Jim Leonhard To Stay Part Of Sean Payton's Secret Plan?

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Does Sean Payton have a secret plan with Jim Leonhard after Leonhard decided to turn down several defensive coordinator offers around the league? What does this mean for Sean Payton and Vance Joseph and why is this something that should be monitored throughout 2025? Plus, how might Payton fill out some of the remaining vacancies on the Broncos coaching staff? Cody Roark is a credentialed beat reporter for Mile High Sports and covers the Broncos daily in person. Sayre Bedinger is the site expert for Predominantly Orange. Both bring Broncos Country the most in-depth and objective coverage of the Denver Broncos. WANT MORE DAILY DENVER BRONCOS CONTENT?For all of the latest Denver Broncos news today -- Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOBroncos?sid=YouTube Locked On NFL League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft & More🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnNFL Follow on Twitter: @CodyRoarkNFL and @SayreBedingerFollow the show on Twitter: @LockedOnBroncos Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!LinkedInLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.PrizePicksDownload the app and use code lockedonnfl to win $50 instantly when you play $5. You don't even need to win to receive your $50 bonus, it's guaranteed! Prizepicks. Run Your Game.Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LOCKEDONNFL FanDuelRight now, new FanDuel customers can get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in Bonus Bets if your first FIVE DOLLAR bet wins!Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Denver Broncos still have several vacancies on their coaching staff. The head coach Sean Payton must feel. How can the Broncos sharpen these positions going into 2025? We'll break that down. And much more on today's episode, Locked on Broncos. You are Locked on Broncos, your daily Denver Broncos podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Broncos country, what's happening?

Welcome into another episode, Lockdown Broncos, your daily Denver Broncos podcast. part of the Lockdown podcast network where you know what is your team every day all throughout the entire offseason because for the true fan there is never an off season thanks to all the every dayers all those who make us your first listen every single day however you choose to do so for all your Broncos news content coverage analysis and where you can't get better coverage than right here locked on Broncos i'm your host as always cody roark broncos reporter for mile high sports you can check out my written work there every single day at mile high sports.com you can check out Sarah Bediger, site expert, predominantly orange.com, his written work there every single day as well as catching us here on the podcast.

In Broncos country, we got a lot in store for you here on today's episode of the show. We're going to wrap things up today by highlighting the Broncos front office and how they may replace some of the positions that moved on to promotions here in the off season. We'll also highlight and maybe ask the question, why did Jim Leonard choose to stay with the Broncos when he had DC offers from other teams? we're going to kick things off on today's show by talking about some of the vacancies the Broncos still have on their coaching staff. How will Sean Payton choose to address that? We'll break that down here on today's show. Brought to you by friends over there at Fandul. And right now, new Fandual customers can get $150 in bonus bets.

If your first $5 bet wins, download the app or head to fandul.com to get started. Bet with Fandual, official partner of the NBA. Sare coaching staff, I mean, look, we just finished the Super Bowl here. And through all the glitz and the glamour of the, the big game. We have gotten to the point now. It's like, oh, I forgot the Broncos still have a lot of moves they're going to have to make on their coaching staff going into 2025. And ideally, wouldn't you like to have that done before free agency, before the NFL scout and combine? What's going on at the Broncos coaching vacancies right now? Well, there's a lot right now.

Obviously, we know that when Sean Payton was initially hired, there was a lot of folks, even in the media, Cody, who complained about how long it was taking for Sean Payton to assemble his staff, when in reality it had already probably been assembled behind the scenes. So maybe, hey, as we're sitting here talking about this, maybe Sean already has guys hired and we just don't know about it yet. But there's some obvious big holes to be filled on the coaching staff, most notably starting with the special teams coordinator role, which at this point, I think we have every reason to expect that Ben Cotwica,

the guy who was fired, is going to be replaced by New Orleans Saints interim head coach slash special teams coordinator, Darren Rizzi, who is now out as Kellyn Moore has been hired as the New Orleans Saints head coach. And obviously, you can hear more about that from our good friend Ross Jackson over there, locked on Saints. But I think, Cody, that's one of the biggest areas that this team had to address after the kind of surprising firing of Codwica. And it's an area of the team that kind of let the team down a little bit last season, right? And at least in spots or in moments, not necessarily that it was a bad unit the last two years, but Sean Payton always looking for that

edge, and maybe he believes that Darren Rizzy can give him that edge. Hold on it. Hello? Sean Payton's on the phone here, Sarah. Hold on one second. Sorry, Coach, I'm doing a podcast right now. No, I appreciate the offer,

but I really love what I'm doing here, a lockdown Broncos with Ser with Broncos country, and I don't know if you'd want me as a coach on your staff, but I do appreciate the offer. All right. take care of coach anyways john peyton there calling here on uh today's episode show just joking there bronch country for those of you who are our listener like what the heck is this guy talking about uh that's kind of what the process seems like it's just drawn out and it's just you know hey

you know the staff will be in place and i remember what sean told us last year he said when we want you to know you'll know and honestly i have no beef with that like that's sean's approach to it and certainly shon is very much a not a loose lips type of guy like he's not you know he'll give stuff to k adams But aside from that, he's not going to really go in depth and make a big spectacle out of who he hires. Though I do think we are kind of running into that time frame where it's like, all right, hey, you do have some of these important things up.

Obviously, you want input from that coach. Obviously, if you're hiring a new position coach like inside linebacker, and that happens to be one of your biggest positions of need that you've kind of already expressed, like, hey, we're going to try to address this this off season that Sean Payton said at Radio Roe, doesn't that inside linebacker coach have to have a little bit of input, right? And also, Vance Joseph is going to fit into this equation as well, because it's his defense. And if he's calling that defense,

the position coach and the coordinator have to align on player philosophy. And that obviously is going to be the ultimate say by Sean Payton. But any good GM, any good coach will go to their coordinator and say, hey, what do you need to be successful? And your guy tells you, like, this is what we need. And then you go and make that decision. I don't know how that's going to work here in Denver because I do know Sean and George really have final say on all of this stuff when it comes to the roster

building aspect of it. And certainly we're going to dive into that. dynamic in the relationship between Peyton and obviously Joseph a little bit later on here in today's show. But to me, if you had to highlight one of these positional vacancies there that is open right now that we don't know that is filled, which one in your opinion is probably the most important to feel? Because I think it's safe to say here. We already know who we think the special teams coordinator is going to be all signs important towards Darren Rizzy. So that's a huge addition if that does come to fruition. But from the other

vacancies, which one is the biggest priority to fill in your opinion? I feel like it's the linebackers coach. And the reason that I think that, Cody, is because I feel like that position group is maybe the area of this team that if the Broncos can get top level play from that inside linebacker position, that the defense might take the leap from being, you know, one of the better defenses in the league to legitimately one of the two or three best overall. And that's in every metric. We know they were really great in a number of areas this past season. But I think it's fair to say there's a number of areas that they fell short. and the off ball linebacker play is one of them.

Now, did injuries play into that? Absolutely. You lose Alex Singleton after week three, and that hurts you. You have to shuffle guys in and out, veterans that were on the practice squad, things like that. That all adds up over time. So who's going to be that inside linebackers coach to come in and get the most out of that unit? Because Greg Mniewski was fired as well.

That was one of the coaches that Sean Payton was like, it wasn't a case of, hey, you can go take a promotion, somewhere else like some of these other guys. This was a situation where Sean was deliberately saying, we need to make a change and we need to get somebody different coaching that position group. And that's where I think, man, the development

of Drew Sanders or coaching whoever they end up bringing in via free agency or how the linebackers coach collaborates with defensive coordinator Vance Joseph to make sure that, hey, we don't want to necessarily be leading the NFL in blitzes every single season here because we

just saw how effective drop seven into coverage can be against Patrick Mahomes. I feel like that inside linebackers coach, Cody, that is going to be a crucial, crucial hire to improving this defense in 2025. Well, I'm trying to think of a couple of names that maybe could be considered. I've heard John Pagano's name as a potential option there. Also another one, too, this is interesting. Rob Ninkovich, I heard as a potential name to keep an eye on here.

Wouldn't be a shocker if he somehow ends up there. But this is something I think, as we've seen with Sean, he has taken former players on his coaches before. We obviously saw it with Chris Banjo, who's now a special teams coordinator for the New York Jets. And Michael Wilhoit, who used to play for him is the outside linebacker coach here for the Broncos. And obviously, Jim Leonard of former players, the defensive backs coach, passing game coordinator. I do think linebacker is probably the one position in terms of coaching that you've got to fill, and it's got to be a really good hire.

Tight end, I mean, do we ever really hear tight end coaches' names being talked to? about really ever in the NFL. So it's like for me, I don't, I can't give any names right now because I simply do not know if who would be a good name at this point. So maybe someone we can look at who the tight end, who was the tight end coach on a Dennis Allen staff last year in New Orleans. I think that might be. Yeah, I can't remember.

I kind of follow. I know there's a name that, uh, of a guy who was the Patriots tight ends coach who's worked with Sean Payton in the past. Uh, the name is slipping me. But hey, I mean, that's another option potentially there to look at us. the ties that bind, right? Anybody that's worked with or for Sean Payton in the past, I mean, obviously Dan Campbell is a great example of that.

I mean, of a tight ends coach rising up through the ranks. And so that may be, maybe it's another former player as well that Sean is looking at to potentially take that role. Well, let's look at passing game coordinator. Obviously, Johnny Moe took the OC job with the Detroit Lions and Denver's currently got a vacancy there. And part of me has wondered, you and I've talked about this here on the show. And I don't know if your thoughts have changed on it. But is Davis Webb ready for that type of promotion right now?

Do you think? Because obviously his name was in the interest of being, you know, what was it, head coach interest, offensive coordinator interest from around the league because of what he's been able to do in the Broncos QB room. He's very, very respected around the league. And is one of those young coaching names to keep an eye on in the next two to three years here. Is he ready for that promotion?

I think there's a real possibility of that. But what does that change with his role with the quarterback's position? Does he still coach the QBs while serving as the past? in-game coordinator. That could be a possibility, or could Pete Carmichael maybe take over that passing game coordinator title? I'm not sure where the Broncos and Sean Payton are ultimately going to head with this position and obviously with some of these vacancies, but it'll be worth digging deeper into once

that happens. Is that a good move? Is there a history there with whoever they decide to hire, whether it's in-house, whether you're bringing somebody from outside of the team? I'm very curious. But obviously, you know, here we are in February, the NFL draft just under a month away, here and the Broncos still have some vacancies on their coaching staff that they'll more and likely have filled out hopefully by the start of free agency but we'll keep you covered here

if anything changes here on lockdown Broncos every single day but we're not done just yet broncos country got a lot to break down and really we're going to analyze why jim linder decided to stay with the Broncos despite having interest from other NFL teams to be a defensive coordinator a big time promotion for him in which he turned down we'll dive deeper to that and much more on today's episode of the show today's episode of lockdown broncos is brought to by our friends over there at Fandu. And Fandu is America's number one sportsbook. And when the game tips off,

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shot at $150 in bonus bets. Make every moment more with Fandul, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. It was a mass exodus and in many ways on the Denver Broncos coaching staff in 2025, but Sean Payton was able to retain arguably the most coveted and desired assistant coach on his staff. Jim Leonard, why did he choose to come back to the Denver Broncos despite getting some big time offers from other teams and certainly drawing interest both at the NFL and NCAA levels? Well, we're going to talk about that on today's episode, Lockdown Broncos, but Broncos country won a first say thank you so much to all of you that makes us your first listen of the day every single day. If you're not yet an everyday listener of the show, hey, hit subscribe wherever you listen to

podcasts as well as over on YouTube where we've just crossed Cody, the 16,000 subscriber threshold. So huge shout out to all of those who are going over and subscribing on YouTube. We appreciate you so much. And let's talk about this because Jim Leonard, in my opinion, probably the most coveted coach on the Broncos, you know, coaching roster, if you will, certainly had drawn interest previously from a number of collegiate teams. We know that he spent the 2023 season as an assistant or an advisor on Brett Belema's staff there at Illinois because of a knee surgery that he had.

But Cody, now that he's kind of fully healthy in a way, right, he's being coveted once again. How, first of all, did the Broncos keep him? And what offers did he turn down in order to stay? Yeah, you know, going back to like how, Jim Leonard ended up in Denver in the first place. I mean, Sarah, obviously we knew that when Sean Payton took the job initially, he wanted Vic Fangio.

Vic Fangio was the top guy that he wanted to come back and coach this defense. And that would have been great on paper, right? You know, but it had to been a little too soon in terms of when Vic departed the Broncos after being fired as the team's head coach. And then, you know, there was obviously the Rex Ryan rumblings like that. To my understanding and to my knowledge, you look back in 2023, Jim Leonard was actually one of the guys that Sean Payton wanted on his staff early on in the process and potentially as a defense coordinator.

We saw what he was able to do at Wisconsin. There were a lot of players at Wisconsin that were pissed because they decided not to make him the head coach. And obviously, you know, he got opportunities elsewhere here. So that I think is, okay, Sean Payton covets. Like, you know, obviously has a lot of respect and values what Jim Leonard brings to the table here. So why did he stay? You know, I know that there was interest from the Indianapolis.

Colts for their defensive coordinator job. I felt like that was probably the one team that might have had the strongest consideration for him, especially when you're still waiting some of the other Domino moves around the coaching cycle to happen there. I think Clemson was a name that was also interested in him at the NCAA level at that point. But ultimately, he decided to turn down where other teams had significant interest in him, to my understanding, to stay in Denver as the passing game coordinator and as the defensive backs coach there alongside Addison Lynch, who coaches the cornerbacks.

Jim Linder focuses a little bit more on the safety's there, but they combine and they each coach the secondary really well. For me, I just can't help a wonder, Sarah, like, what does this mean? Like, this is a promotion where Jim Lennar would have obviously gotten a pay increase in terms of what he's able to do by getting a coordinator job, but also gives him a little bit more control, right? It gives him more say in the game plan, whereas you're an assistant coach in Denver, passing game coordinator, you're going to have a lot to do with the passing defense there. But you're not going to have final say initially on a lot of. of things. So to me, I found that very interesting. And so that can only make me go to maybe the tin foil

hat theory here. Is this something where we are very much seeing Sean Payton setting up Jim Leonard to be the future defensive coordinator here of the Broncos? And what does that mean? I mean, Sarah, I think, you know, a lot of things. It can mean one or two things. Obviously, he's a bright coach who's got, you know, players love Jim Leonard. I talk to guys in his secondary all the time. They love Jim Leonard. They loved Christian Parker. They really, really love Jim Leonard. He's played. They understand, hey, this guy's been through what we go through every single day. He's done it for 10 years. And he also helps out big time on special teams. Or number two, we have to watch the relationship between Vance Joseph and Sean Payton kind of unfold a little bit this upcoming season where it's like,

is Vance Joseph on a little bit of a shorter straw in comparison to maybe, you know, where he was last year? Because everyone's going to go back to the CBS broadcast cameras. This happens all the time. Vance gets chewed out by Sean. Every coach on this Bronco staff gets chewed. out by Sean when things aren't going well, right? And you see, you see that on camera and sometimes everyone's like, wait a minute, something's going on. I can tell you this is normal, but at some point, eventually it's going to start wearing off on, you know, a guy like Vance or on other people, even like Sean. So where do you think out of those two options is probably the more likely path here? Well, I think the hope is that obviously Vance can do well enough to get a head coaching gig after the

2025 season. That's what I think everybody's ultimate goal here is. And Vance is, and Vance is certainly gotten looks in years past, and he probably deserves another chance to be a head coach. Didn't exactly get the most favorable situation when he was the head coach of the Denver Broncos. But I think it's possible, Cody, that Vance would end up being a better head coach than defensive coordinator. And I think he's a strong defensive coordinator. Obviously, this past year with Denver, statistically speaking, might have been, if everybody goes back and checks, it's probably the best year that he's ever had as a defense.

coordinator in terms of the overall numbers. Now, he's had success in other ways at other stops that he's had, Arizona, Miami, things like that. But certainly as a, you know, top tier defensive coordinator, that that's his hallmark is this past season. So can you go do that again? And if you can, I think he'll get enough looks to be a head coach elsewhere that would allow the Broncos to seamlessly move on.

But if you look at the beginning of the 2023 season, complete defensive debacle and the end of the 2024 season, which I would argue maybe a complete defensive debacle there down the stretch. Those two things probably weigh heavily in terms of what Sean Payton wants. And you mentioned initially, Peyton wanted to come back to the NFL with Vic Fangio as his defensive coordinator. I know Vic doesn't, you know, not every game does he send zero blitzes like we saw in the Super Bowl, right? But stylistically speaking, you have Vance Joseph, whose defense was among the league leaders,

top two or three in blitz percentage. And then you have Vic Fangio, whose philosophy is, we want to drop seven in coverage as much as possible and get home with four guys. That philosophy difference right there could be the tension that we're discussing here when it comes to stylistically what Sean Payton prefers in a Fangio type of scheme versus what Vance Joseph prefers to do in terms of creating pressure. Well, and that's where Sean Payton's influence as a head coach is going to come in, because overall, when it comes to personnel and he's largely responsible for,

it with George Payton, it's trying to say, like, this is what we need to do. Like, that's, to my, that's what every head coach does. It doesn't matter what level of football it is, whether it's high school, college, or pro, the head coach, and sometimes you get head coaches who are play callers, but the head coach, you know, has philosophical saying like, hey, this is our personnel. This is what we need to try to emulate. This is what we need to do. But also for Denver, you don't want to go in and reinvent the wheel.

I mean, you just came off of the season where, of course, you sent a lot of pressure. but you had two guys with double digit sacks. You had 63 total sacks, which said a franchise record. I led the entire NFL this season. And I understand that, if that relationship between Sean and Vance, like if that starts to wear down a little bit,

if things start going wrong, then I think that we got to keep an eye on. Okay, 2026, Jim Leonard might be the D.C. here. Like the Broncos just may say, Hey, Vance, you can go explore other opportunities or in the situation where he gets an opportunity to go, you know, be a head coach somewhere.

But with all the vacancy, that we saw this year and all the feelings, I would be shocked if there's as many head coach openings going into 2026 as there was this offseason. But at the same time, too, I'm also looking at the entire roster. And it's like, what message are you sending, Sean? If you're frustrated with how the defense is playing, let's say if he were to fire vance Joseph,

what does I say like when the offense struggles and all the offensive struggles that we have seen so far? To me, that's where it's like, ah, you muddy the water a little bit. It puts Sean in a tough position, but ultimately, I found it interesting that Jim Leonard chose to stay despite maybe some of these circumstances. Yeah, it's very, like you said, the tin foil hat comes on a little bit when you start thinking about it. And I also think, too, one of the biggest things is that the Broncos do have, there's no salary cap when it comes to the coaching staff, right? And you've got the cash rich ownership group. And Sean Payton is going to be given every asset that he needs in order to keep guys like this around.

So if Notre Dame comes calling, if the Indianapolis Colts come calling or whoever it may be, Clemson, like you mentioned, whoever comes calling, Sean Payton has every ability to say, hey, see what they're offering and come back to me and I'll give you a counteroffer or we'll match what they're willing to pay. It's just like any job negotiation, right? And so for Jim Leonard playing the long game, you can't help but think that if he's turning down promotions to stay in Denver, that there's an opportunity at promotion in the very next. near future because otherwise why would you do that? Why would you, unless you really love living in Denver, unless you really love, hey, I'm really comfortable in this gig. I mean, I feel like, yeah, coaching Pat Sartan and those guys, that's probably a lot of fun, Cody, every day.

Your job is pretty easy at that point. But when you're coaching in the NFL, you're doing it because you want to move up the ladder eventually. And so to me, Jim Leonard wouldn't be taking a, I guess you could call it a lateral move. If he's being offered promotions, he's kind of taking a lateral move in a way to to stay in Denver, and I think the promotion is on the near horizon. We want to hear your thoughts on today's show, Broncos country on Jim Leonard, Vance Joseph, and whether or not it's worth keeping an eye on the relationship dynamic

between Sean Payton and Vance Joseph this upcoming season. We still got more for you here on today's show. Broncos country up next. We're going to be talking about the front office losses there. How will the Broncos look to fill some of the big gaps that are left after some departures due to some big time promotions to other teams? We'll break that down and much more here on today's episode. of the show. Today's episode of lockdown Broncos is brought through our friends over there at

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If you're not yet an everyday listener, make sure you become one. So you never miss out on what's going on with your favorite team from an objective point of view. For all your Broncos news content coverage analysis more, there's no better place that does it than here at Lockdown Broncos. We appreciate you so much. You know your voice, Sarah and Cody, we got you covered every single day all year long. That's our promise to you. Continue our conversation here. Obviously, we highlighted some of the vacancies on the Broncos coaching staff right now that have yet to be filled.

We even dove deep into Jim Leonard and why he decided to stay in Denver and turn down some big time promotion offers that he had in life for him. But now you look at the front office, right, the behind the scenes, the big picture stuff, the Broncos, they've lost several key figures of that this off season. The first domino effect really being Darren Mojee, the assistant general manager going over to the New York Jets where he's now taken over there. and his first order of business was saying, hey, Aaron Rogers, we're not going forward with you here. So it's crazy how Sean Payton, you know, a guy who had a lot of truthful things to say about what happened with Nathaniel Hackett, Aaron Rogers comes out and he goes, keep my coach's name out of your mouth. Darren Mujji says, bye-bye, Aaron Rogers. Keep my coach's name out of your mouth.

We have to recircle that. Everything comes full circle, era. On your ayahuasca trip, you probably should have realized that. Everything, it all comes full circle here. So you lose Mugi, right? Obviously, that's big. So now you have an assistant GM vacancy. David Shaw, really not a, this was like a position that was created for him,

like an advisor role for the Broncos. He goes to Detroit to join John Morton as the passing game coordinator over there. And then he was Mark Thuse, who was really a behind the scenes guy. Going back to 2009, came in with Josh McDaniels, was a high school buddy of McDaniels. When McDaniels got fired, he still stayed on here in Denver and has been with the organization since very longstanding. Now, he goes to the Las Vegas Raiders as they're very.

vice president of football operations. So really for him, it's kind of a jump, you know, an opportunity. You know, obviously with Pete Carroll and everything over there. But man, you have three big vacancies now on your staff, really two that have to get filled. The other one was a creative position. Your thoughts on these moves and obviously where Denver goes from here. Yeah, I think it's, uh, it seems like way more than it did when they were all happening kind of spread out all these different moves, right?

And you can't blame Darren Moji for taking a general manager. your position. I mean, that's what an awesome opportunity for him. And Cody, you just reminded me, man, we need a podcast with Aaron Rogers and maybe Joe Rogan mediating with like Kanye West on the other side. Just see what those guys would say all in one spot. Like wouldn't that be something? But look, Aaron, he's going to be out in New York. Obviously, the connection with Moji can help the Denver Broncos if they want to do any deals with the New York Jets. Like, I guess we'll see really how much, because the rumor amongst Broncos country right now and what's being debated about all these people leaving, Cody, is that people are leaving because they dislike Sean Peyton, which I think is interesting because I think a lot of people also love George Peyton. Even if they did really dislike Sean Peyton, I think that they love George Peyton, who is one of the most respected and trusted guys in the NFL. So I think in the dealings that we see with, I don't think we'll see much involvement between the Broncos and the Raiders where Mark Thews went and also former Broncos scouts.

John Spy Tech who's been working with it. Joe Woods is over there too. Joe Woods is there as well. I mean, so you have a lot of connections with the Raiders, but I don't think we're going to be seeing many in-division trades there. But I think you could see some stuff between the Broncos and the Jets. I think that we could see some more departures from the Broncos to the Lions with the fact that, hey, David Shaw was evaluating guys for the Denver Broncos

on both the pro and college side. So maybe there's something to be said there about players the Broncos brought in this last year that he maybe really likes that he would go bring there with Johnny Mo. So I think that there's interesting factors about it. Now, I don't know. I mean, is it tough to replace these people in your front office, Cody? How big of a factor is that? I just don't, I don't know.

I feel like there's a lot of people who are really good at those jobs and there's people who are going to get promoted from within Denver. There's people who are probably going to be getting hired, which I can't wait to find out because you always want to know who's the brain trust that's involved in assembling the roster that's being put together and what connections do they have? Because we know roster building, team building. It's a lot about who you know in the NFL. Yeah, it is. And I think let's first look at assistant general manager. I mean, there's two names that come to mind right off the top of my head. Kelly, Kelly Klein Van

Calligan, obviously the right hand to George Payton, extensive background in scouting. She has also participated in the NFL's accelerator program. I think she's ready to maybe make a jump to assistant general manager, very deserving if she gets that. tremendous, tremendous insight into the game of football. And obviously her and George Payton have history dating back to the Minnesota Vikings where they were in the scouting and personnel department together there. And then I think of Cody Rager who came over in the off season. And obviously he's the VP of player personnel,

someone that Sean Payton obviously trusts a lot. So for me, it has to be either one of those two if you're looking in-house at a promotion, which would then lead to maybe like, hey, you've got scouts who have been on the grind, kind of what Derrimoji was doing when he came in, right, scouting intern. and then you got a scouting role as a scout and then it's just like promotions. Then you can promote some of your other people that have been tremendous behind the scenes, which Sean Payton and George Payton have constantly talked about in the NFL draft process, post-draft is their scouts and the work that they have done,

the analytics department, what they've all been able to do. That right there has been a big part of it. So I think so much we're going to see those internal promotions, which is going to lead to more internal promotions for other people moving up to fill those vacancies left by obviously those promotions. there inside the organization. Word salad going on here on today's episode. Locked on Bronco.

In terms of Mark Thu's role, obviously, is the vice president of player personnel and things like that, not player personnel, the vice president of football operations. He was in charge of a lot of the team's compliance stuff with the NFL in terms of the league office, making sure they're following the CBA to a T, ensuring spending. Like, there's so many behind the scene stuff that Thuse was responsible for. I'm very curious to see who they. they decide to replace him with, whether that's internally or out of house here or something,

keep an eye on here. But overall, I don't think it really changes anything in the Broncos front office or the way they do things that's going to impact them negatively. I think the message is still going to be the same, especially if you're keeping that continuity in house. But I didn't want to ask your thoughts on this because you did bring up a little bit of a point here where it was talked about and debated about on social media, whether or not John Payton is liked and people are leaving because they don't like him. Do you think that these guys, obviously, you know, getting promotions or maybe going elsewhere, do you think it's them jumping ship or do you think it's them actually saying, hey, I'm buying into the promotion? Because I find the notion that coaches are jumping ship, I find it to be a crazy laughable at this point. Yeah, I don't think that's the case at all, Cody.

I mean, when you're talking about taking promotions on other teams, I mean, it would be one thing if they were taking lateral positions or it be one thing if they were getting like deep. moated essentially to just, hey, I just want to get out of Denver any way that I possibly can. I'm going to go take whatever job I can find with this other team in a different culture. It's interesting to me that, you know, you want to talk about jumping ship. Well, like two of the guys that we're talking about, David Shaw and Johnny Morton, they took jobs with Dan Campbell, who is a branch off of the Sean Payton coaching tree. Darren Mojee went to the Jets where he's going to be working directly with Aaron Glenn, who was another branch on the Sean Payton coaching tree.

that kind of stuff is fascinating to me. And we saw kind of Aaron Glenn is laying down the law with, you know, somebody like Aaron Rogers as well. It's like, hey, you're not doing the Pat McAfee stuff. And if that's the case, you know, you're going to have to leave if you're going to continue doing it essentially. And that's a very Sean Payton thing to do. And that does rub some people wrong, right?

I think that there's no doubt about it that you, you know, any working environment, you might not love everybody that you work with. But to me, man, to work with somebody like Sean Payton, a future Hall of Fame coach, I don't think that's an opportunity that you really jump ship from unless you're certain that you're going to be getting a promotion somewhere else. Well, and you also hear how former players talk about Sean. I mean, they'll talk about his intensity. Like Nick Benito just went on the pivot podcast, which folks, go check that out after you're done with today's episode. Had a lot of great insight to how Sean Payton truly is.

Like most people don't get to see that behind the scenes. They see the, you know, top around the edges sometimes. I can tell you this. Like, Sean has always been great to me. there's times where he's tough with us in the media, but it's nothing really too crazy. I think it's worse sometimes than it actually is. And then there's times where he's just super cheerful.

It just depends on what's going on. Is Sean Payne's head that day? What's going? Like, what is his day? What does his stress load look like? Like, it's a reflection on how he reacts with us. And like I said, I have never had any issue with Sean.

He's always been fair. He's always answered some tough questions. And he's also given, you know, some good insight in some of that. So I don't think, And according to, some people I have spoken to, they're like, the idea that people are jumping ship from Sean Payton. That's laughable because Sean Payton is shown you coach with him, you have a chance of getting a job, right? And Sean is always a guy who's going to go and advocate for guys like Chris Banjo to get jobs.

He at, you know, to my understanding, Sean just had some words of encouragement to Aaron Glenn. And also Chris Banjo who interviewed internally for the Bronco special teams coordinator job to say, hey, like, no matter what, you're going to get a job. We're going to try to do that. Like, Sean will go out of his way to make sure one of his. guys can get hired elsewhere if he's not returning to Denver. And I think that's something that speaks volumes to who Sean is as a person and also as a coach, regardless of how some people may feel about him. But what they said, Broncos Country, that'll wrap up today's episode of the show,

Sarah Bedinger and I. We brought you a lot of jam-packed action all week long. So if you missed any episodes this week, make sure you go back. You check them out as you get deeper into some of the discussions that we had. Also a mailbag episode and you have a lot to look forward to next week. Hopefully the Broncos can make some new coaching hire. and we'll have some stuff to react to when it comes to that. If not, we're going to start evaluating this roster

in some of the more crucial areas and addressing how Denver can maybe improve on some of the rosters where they already have some strengths at as is. You'll get that much more on the next episode. Locked on Broncos.