Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Burleson's Heroics OVERSHADOWED by Contreras' Meltdown?

Starting point is 00:00:00 a wild night to say the least, that Bush Stadium that featured a huge evening for one Cardinals hitter, while another one stole the headlines with his animated ejection. That's one way to put it. This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals. I'm Jady Hafford and I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockedon Podcast Network,

Starting point is 00:00:34 covering your team every day. Follow me on exit JD Sports Radio, the podcast on X at L0 underscore Cardinals. You can find us on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, a locked on Cardinals. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving you all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fanduel. Football season is around the corner. Visit the Fandwell app today and start planning your futures bets now. Thomas Covey from Redbirdrance.com back with us today to discuss last night's very, very entertaining matchup between the Pittsburgh Pirates and the St. Louis Cardinals, which is kind of funny because neither of them are really in this playoff picture. Technically, I guess you could say the Cardinals are, but realistically, no, these are two teams

Starting point is 00:01:17 below 500. They're at the bottom of the NL Central, but somehow, some way we still get fireworks and a number of different ways at the game on Monday night. We're going to talk about the turnaround of Nolan Gorman season. Wilson Contreras is ejection. Obviously, that's a big thing. And whether or not J.J. Weatherholt should or shouldn't be on this team at some point this season, we'll give you both sides of the equation there.

Starting point is 00:01:41 But let's start with last night's game, Thomas. You know, I constantly use the term roller coaster when describing what the St. Louis Cardinals have been this year. A lot of games are just up and down and up and down. And last night's was no different. The Cardinals fell behind early. We're down four to one at one point. point, Michael McGreevy got the start again. And he gives up two home runs on almost the exact same pitch.

Starting point is 00:02:07 One was a fastball. One was a cutter to Brian Reynolds and Spencer Horowitz. But if you go look, they're like legitimately right in the same spot. Like, you know, fractions away from, you know, being the exact same spot in the strike zone. And both of them got smashed over the wall. So things weren't looking good at this point. former Cardinal Johan Oviedo. He was dealing at the time, allowing just one run on three hits with five Ks and five innings. But then in the fifth inning, the pirates go to lefty, Andrew Heaney. And I don't know if you remember, Thomas, last time we saw Heaney on the mound for the pirates, kind of tore the Cardinals up a little bit.

Starting point is 00:02:45 Remember he had like that no hitter going for quite a while? Just dominated them back on June 30th with six and two-third shutout innings. He allowed just three hits. He whiffs seven in that game. So it kind of made sense for the, the pirates to turn to him in that situation. Oviedo coming back from the arm issues. So they're, you know, they're keeping an eye on him with the pitch count.

Starting point is 00:03:06 And the Cardinals were running this time. They had this amazing inning where they just go off. They score five, all with two outs in this fifth inning. It included five straight two out hits, which was a lot of fun to see, you know, watching them first off beat up on a lefty, which has been the easiest thing for them to do this year. But against a soft tosser too, who we know, we've seen them have. have struggles with guys like that over the years.

Starting point is 00:03:31 Nathan Church got it started with the single to write. Then with two outs, it's Mason win with the infield single to bring in church. Then it was Burley who had a monster game last night with the ground rule double to get a run in, a two run hit by Wilson Contreras, ties it up. And then it's Nolan Gorman with the opo double to the gap and left center. That ends up scoring Willie all the way from first place. He was chugging around. And finally, said J.C. brings Gorman in on an RBI single.

Starting point is 00:03:58 and just like that. You got a six to four Cardinal lead. And I go back to the Nolan Gorman at bat. Like, you know, we've seen some of these other guys come through in big situations. But Nolan Gorman's turnaround has been something Cardinal fans have been waiting for to see him, just become a better hitter at the play overall. What have you noticed? Because we were texting last night, what have you noticed about Nolan Gorman just over the last few weeks

Starting point is 00:04:27 that has you feeling better about things with him and his career with St. Louis Cardinals moving forward. He couldn't have turned it on at a better time, honestly, as we get down to the end of the year. Since June 1st, he's slashing 249, 355, 479. His ISO, which is a stat that really just centers on power, is at 231. That's just a tick below his 241 from a couple years ago when he had a really good season offensively. 11 home runs in the time span as well. he just seems to be tapping into something that he hadn't been all year. The most interesting fact of him in that time span is his 14% walk rate.

Starting point is 00:05:04 It's the highest in the Cardinals in that time period as well, which I never thought that we'd ever say about Nolan Borman that he's walking. Right, right. He's striking out the most, but like if he's going to hit 11 home runs, walk 14% of the time, I'll take a 31% K rate any day of the week at that point. He's like, what's his butt, big donkey from, the Cincinnati Reds over the years. Why can I think it was there?

Starting point is 00:05:29 That's what he's starting to remind me of, because it's like walk, strikeout, home run. Although it feels like we're not seen as much of the power that maybe that we're all hoping for from Nolan Gorman, which has been the one thing that we've all been riding for years. We're like, well, if he's got to suck most of the time, at least he's sitting home runs, right? And, you know, he hasn't been doing it quite as much.

Starting point is 00:05:55 but you're seeing much better at bats. You know, I'm not seeing him flail away quite as much as at least eyeball test that I'm used to seeing him. I'm not saying I saw him chase one last night and I was just like, what are he doing, dude? It's not even close to the zone. But to see him doing things like hitting things to the opposite field. Like when was the last time you saw him pop anything to the opposite field and against the left-hander? No, I swear. He was able to look at the bat and take what the pitch is.

Starting point is 00:06:25 like he's not trying to just pull it and yank it over the wall in right field like he just went that way and he's so strong that you know it just shot into the gap like didn't even have a chance and it was more of bats like that is what we want to see you know you're it's just it's good to finally see what i i would deem some progress right yeah runway right isn't it's nice i mean last week he had two home runs against the left lefty pitchers for the yankees in the other series he seems to be making the adjustments that he's needed to make this year. It took a little bit to get going. He had some injury hiccups in there as well.

Starting point is 00:07:00 But the last month and a half, two months almost, they've been pretty good for him. Yeah. And I feel like one of the reasons why, and you hate to say it this way, but, you know, this is kind of what it was supposed to look like. If Nolan Aronado had accepted that trade to Houston, you know, this was the idea was that, you know, if Gorman started to see, you know, consistent at bats and was always in the lineup. up. The defense obviously has been an issue. It's just throwing the ball has really been the issue for Gorman so far. But offensively, you know, being, knowing that he's going to be in the lineup almost every single day,

Starting point is 00:07:35 I wonder what that's done for him mentally because I don't know Nolan Gorman, but he just kind of strikes me as a guy that, you know, he's soft spoken obviously, but he seems like a guy who needs to be in a lineup every single day to show that progress, getting two, maybe three games a week, it probably wasn't enough for him to really start to overcome some of the issues he was having. So it's been nice that with Aronado out that he's gotten to see these at bats that we promised him. When I say we, it wasn't us, but it was, you know, the way John Moseilock and company had promised him. And unfortunately, because certain things didn't happen, you know, those, those at bats weren't there for him this year. But you're seeing the progress from it. another guy that continued his offensive rise from last year,

Starting point is 00:08:24 Alec Berlison, who had a four hit night, including that walk off home run in the bottom of the night. You know, last year he kind of took off and finally, because most people were thinking this guy is just kind of a bench player. And then he had a really good season last year, although he cooled off considerably in the second half. But this year, he's kind of picked up right where he left off. And Alec Berluson has become arguably one of the top three hitters

Starting point is 00:08:49 in the St. Louis Cardinals lineup. What are your feelings on what you saw from Alec Berlison, not only last night, but just overall this season. And do you think he's got a, you know, has he cemented a place with the Cardinals moving forward? I think he has. I've always been a little bit down on Burleson. He's pretty one-vention to me. It's just, yeah, that's the playing card. You put him in the corner outfield, it's going to be an experience. It seems like every catch he does make out there, like those two, three-star catches that are a little bit tricky. He's always kind of reaching for it. He's a half step behind, it's kinds of things. First base, I think he's a pretty strong defender, but obviously there's Wilson-Cadres there. With Wilson-Cand-Feris bat, you need that kind of

Starting point is 00:09:28 guy in the lineup. He's not going to have the true raw power that a guy like Nolan Foreman has, but his bat to ball skills are better. He still has some power thrown in there as well. He seemed to do better this year against left-handed pitchers than he has in the past. I'm not saying that he's figured them out fully. He's got 278 average, 7-27-0-8 average. 7-27. Like, you live with those numbers. It's not overly splity. Still in OPS in the 700s against same-handed pitchers. It's pretty solid for a guy like him.

Starting point is 00:09:57 But he seems to really cemented himself as a number four, number five hitter in the lineup. Yeah. I mean, I don't know where we're going to play him to get him in the lineup every day. Like he said, you know, watching him defensively is not always the prettiest thing. He gets maximum effort at all times. I can't say he's not trying, but it is just one of those things. Like, you know, you got to get his bat in the lineup.

Starting point is 00:10:18 hitting 291, 16 home runs, 60 RBIs, which kind of, you know, puts them on pace for, you know, 20 and 80 RBIs at the end of the season. And for a team like the Cardinals, who offensively, you know, don't have a lot of superstars popping off the page. You can't not have his bat in the lineup. And as you mentioned, against left-handers, he's looked so much more comfortable this year. And it's never going to be a perfect thing where he's just lacing everybody. This isn't Ted Williams we're talking about. But at the same time, you know, it's good to see.

Starting point is 00:10:48 that he's progressing another, another year where he's a full-time player and he's showing that he's getting better each and every year. So a nice moment for him last night with the walk-off home run, his first one in his career, fifth walk-off win for the Cardinals this year. But we're not going to be able to ignore the fact that Wilson Contreras probably stole the headlines from last night's game with his crazy, crazy ejection. Man, this one fun, a little scary at times too, but we're going to break it all down for you next and give you us give you our thoughts on Wilson Contreras's very animated ejection from last night's game that's coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. It is officially Fandall Futures Day. We made it August 26th, the brand new

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Starting point is 00:13:46 Thomas Govain from Redwood Rance.com with us once again on this Tuesday. By now you've seen the footage. A wild reaction from Wilson Contreras, who was called out on strikes in the seventh inning, then got ejected for using. vulgar language, Thomas, that prompted him to use more of that language, because from what I, the lips that I was reading, he was saying he didn't say what the home plate umpire thought he said. He goes absolutely ballistic.

Starting point is 00:14:17 He spikes his helmet. He throws his bat towards the umpires, but kind of, thank God, it hits Bram Brown, the hitting coach for the Cardinals because you don't want that hitting an umpire, at least with Brandt. you can probably say, hey, my bad dude, I didn't mean to do that. He throws a container of gum out on the field. We know Willie's a pretty fiery guy, but your thoughts on what transpired last night between him and home played umpire Derek Thomas.

Starting point is 00:14:46 What were you thinking while that all went down? If he was mad about the, this called strikes and that at bat, he doesn't really have much grounds to argue. The first one, maybe he's a bit inside. maybe the first one. The third one was dotted, I think, at the bottom of the zone. He swung in a ball, like a foot out of the zone. At that point, get mad at yourself, not the umpires. It seems to be a lot of he said, he said here. Wilson Contreras says he never said anything umpire. Umpire said he heard this. He gets ejected and then it blows up from there.

Starting point is 00:15:15 Honestly, my biggest takeaway from this is that Wilson Contreras owes Brant Brown and the bat boys, the nice dinner somewhere because Grant Brown took a bat to the forearm and those bat boys were cleaning up the high shoes on the field for a couple minutes there. Yeah. As you mentioned, like, you know, what they're talking about is that the umpire thought he heard, and we're late enough into this video where we can say this, where he thought he heard Wilson tell him to F off is really what it came down to. Wilson's like, no, I didn't.

Starting point is 00:15:47 No, I didn't. And then he was like, oh, you want me to tell you to F off? And that's when things went Haywire and you can see him saying it over and over and over. There was a video where I retweeted it, if you guys follow on X, where there were some subtitles on and there's a spot where they think they hear Wilson saying those words. But my thing is like, if he didn't, if he said it that I don't see why Wilson would ever get mad. He'd been like, I did say it, whatever. I've never known Wilson not to, you know, accept responsibility for something that he's done, but he was very adamant that I never said that to you.

Starting point is 00:16:24 And that's what got him so upset, I think, is that, you know, nobody wants to be called a liar. Contreras said after the game, I didn't argue any pitch. All I said was, call the pitches on both sides because you're missing for us. Then I turned around. The next thing I hear, he threw me out. There's no reason for it. Apparently he heard something he thought I said.

Starting point is 00:16:43 I did not say that. Crew Chief Jordan Baker told a pool reporter that Contreras and Marmal were saying vulgar stuff to Thomas, who's the home plate umpire, not Thomas Gauvin, talking to with there today from red red redress.com. Baker added to the contraris made contact with the umpire. It was a wild scene. Do you think they handled it well? Obviously, you know, Wilson's side of things.

Starting point is 00:17:08 Obviously, it's not a great look. You got to be able to control your emotions a little bit. But do you feel like it was a soft ejection by the home plate umpire to just assume that he said something like that and toss a guy? Yeah, probably at first when as conturas was walking away from the plate to throw at that point. After that, yeah, obviously, Contreras wouldn't have done this stuff after that if he hadn't been ejected at the first place.

Starting point is 00:17:31 It felt a little bit soft. I didn't see all the pictures throughout the game. Contreras could have really good point. He's calling it pretty one-sided. We'll have to see the umpire auditor on Twitter today. See how that comes out? The truth is. It felt a little bit soft.

Starting point is 00:17:46 Yeah. And it's the thing as too is like people are like, gosh, he's just the umps been terrible tonight. And you can always go to the umpire scoreboards. website to kind of check on accuracy. Derek Thomas is one of the best in the league, too, because there was a few where you're like, ugh, he missed that one too.

Starting point is 00:18:02 Maybe it's just a bad night for it. Maybe things were just a little bit off. But overall this season, Derek Thomas has been one of the top accuracy-wise umpires in the league. So it's not like he's normally a problem back there. This isn't, you know, C.B. Buckner or Las Diaz or Wendell Center, or any of these guys that are known for having just outrageous strike zones. So Contreras was.

Starting point is 00:18:24 the first Cardinals player to be ejected from a game this season. Marmal also ejected, although I didn't see what he did that got him thrown out. He didn't look like he was really all that upset with the umpire. He was just more worried about holding his player back. But six time he's been tossed out of game in 2025. But I thought that was fine. I was like, no kidding. No Cardinals been thrown out of a game so far this season. So we, we broke the seal on that. Good job. Up next, we're going to be the debate. continues to rage on, Thomas. Should the Cardinals be bringing up J.J. Weatherholt? There's a bunch of different reasons why he should be brought up. There's also some reasons

Starting point is 00:19:04 why he maybe won't be brought up. Something that you wrote about at Redbirdrance.com. We're going to dive into that. Coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. Time to fuel up and turn it up with five-hour energy transfusion, these grape, ginger, lime-flavored shot. It brings the iconic taste of a golf course favorite to a non-alcoholic boost. It's perfect for. for not only seeking birdies on the course, but also making great memories with friends. It's a hole in one for your energy game. That I can promise you.

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Starting point is 00:20:28 No purchase necessary. exclude the Masters Tournament. This will end October 31st, 2025. Thanks again for making a Locked on Cardinals. First listen today for your second listen. Check out the all new Lockton MLB Game Night. It's every game every night all season long at local analysis on a national scale by fighting MLB game night on the Lockdown MLB YouTube channel or wherever you listen to your podcast. JJ Weatherholt is one of the top prospects in baseball. That cannot be denied. He's in the top 10 in almost every ranking. Some people have them in the top five having a hell of a time at Memphis.

Starting point is 00:21:09 Like he is just raking ever since he got brought up from double A. He's been on fire hitting like 328, something like that. He's just outstanding numbers across the board. The Cardinals are technically still in the wild card combo, though everybody gets mad at me when I bring that up. But the odds are very slim for him to get in. You've got your star shortstop, Thomas. Mason went dealing with a knee injury.

Starting point is 00:21:30 He's been dealing with it since the All-Star break. So it's been quite a while now that he's he's had some issues with this knee. He took a shot for it, anti-inflammatory shot for that knee. He had to miss Sunday's game because it was, you know, barking at him a little bit. Do you think that with something like this, that maybe the Cardinal will say, all right, Mason, let's shut it down. And then J.J. Weatherhole perhaps uses that opening to get up to the big league level. Because you wrote a piece about this for Redbirdrance.com.

Starting point is 00:22:02 And you gave thoughts on why and why not. It's a good and maybe a not so good reason for JJ to get the call this year. What are your thoughts on this whole subject with JJ Weatherhole? I think the only reason he is called up this year is if Mason Wind does go down. One of my reasons on this article was that there's no room to play. You look at our infield. When Donovan comes back, it's Donnie. When Arnaudow comes back, who he's planning on coming back at some point this year, it's Donnie, it's Nato, it's wind.

Starting point is 00:22:28 It's the J.C. it's Corman. Like, that's five guys right there for response. And I know Donovan can play in the outfield, but Alec Berlinson needs time in the outfield, the Von Herrera is probably going to get some time. There's just bodies everywhere. There's really no room for JJ right now, unless Mason Wind does get hurt.

Starting point is 00:22:43 However, there's also several reasons to bring him up. He could bring a spark to the fans. I'm not saying he's going to bring back 10,000 fans a game, but a few hundred here or there. There's always excitement around a rookie, especially a highly tabbed one like him. He probably needs a little bit more time at Triple H just to get adjusted to the Major League Baseball,

Starting point is 00:23:01 and some higher level pitching. But everything he's shown up to this point proves that he's a legitimate true hitting prospect. Yeah. And as you mentioned, so many other guys that you're still kind of, you know, you're like, I still want to see this guy play. I want to see Thomas and J.C. Like, we've got to figure out what the hell we have him, him. Is he somebody that is capable of being a starter at the major league level at some point?

Starting point is 00:23:24 Or is he just a solid utility bench kind of guy? Gorman, obviously, has become a much better hitter by getting. more every day at bat. So you don't want to pull him out of the lineup if and when Donnie and don't know, come back. You don't want to just like, all right? That was fun, right? Back to the pine, buddy. You don't want that to happen at all. So you got to get his at bat. So there's part of me, too, that's like, I almost wish that Nato and Donnie be like, all right, we're good. We're done for the year. Just so. Yeah, just so we can see some of these guys continue to get more at bats at the major league level. You know, it's, I know what they are. I know what you are at this point in your

Starting point is 00:24:04 career, Nolan Aronado. I know what you are, Brennan Donovan, Mr. All-Star. We know what you can do. We know. Are them coming back to the lineup? Is that really going to be a push that gets the Cardinals into the playoffs? Probably not because you still have that starting rotation where you just don't really know what's going to happen most of the time. So I'm kind of enjoying the fact of seeing these younger guys get more at bats and more meaningful playing time in these guys. games. But like he said, the numbers crunch is just, it's too tough because JJ, you know, you got, you got Jose for me who's on this roster, but you're not going to put JJ Weatherholt in that role where he never plays, you know, maybe every once in a while he gets on the field.

Starting point is 00:24:46 So if you're going to bring him up, you want to see him in that lineup every day. So I'm in full agreeance with you that unless Mason Wendn decides to shut things down, there's really no room for JJ on this team this season, is there? No, I don't think so. And you'll hear some 40-man arguments about, like, we need to keep an open 40-man for this winter for Heim Bloom. You don't need to add JJ to her enough. I don't know if that's a very strong argument.

Starting point is 00:25:11 With the guy like JJ Weatherholt, if he's ready, you make space for him. He's a type of player. You get on the roster and you make space otherwise that you can. Without this one, I don't think there's any room on the 26-man roster, even though for him. Yeah, and it's not like the old days where, like, you go to September and all of a sudden you call up all of Memphis.

Starting point is 00:25:30 The whole team comes up. It's not like that anymore. They put the kibosh on that a few years ago. So it's disappointing in a way because everybody just wants to see JJ play and see what he can do. But again, he's been at AAA, what? A little over a month? I don't think he's reached 30. Yeah, I don't even if he's reached 30 games for the Memphis reference.

Starting point is 00:25:52 I don't know. It's still very early. I would rather just do it next year, to be honest with you. There's not much that you're going to be able to save with this season. Like you said, I mean, is JJ being in the lineup going to bring 10,000 fans back to the stadium? So they don't have the record low crowds like they did last night. No, I think the fans have made their decision and they're not coming either way. So next year, you know, you get the whole offseason for Heinblum to kind of massage this roster.

Starting point is 00:26:21 And you give them a chance to see what some of these other guys can do. And then he swindles. make some deals and does what he needs to do. And then, you know, you come into spring of all that next year and give JJ every opportunity to win a spot, to win a starting role, you know, and maybe by then things have shifted and certain people have been traded or whatever to open up that spot for him. Because when he's here, you're going to want to keep him here. So it just makes a little more sense to do with this offseason, which, again, it's a bummer.

Starting point is 00:26:50 But these are, you know, the times we live in when it comes to roster construction and where the Cardinals are at this particular time at the end of August. So anything new you're working on, Thomas. We're going to wrap things up here. What you got? I want to go out today about Heim Bloom. Derek Gould talked to Eric Neander, Tampa Bay, Ray's executive. Heim Bloom is going to be far more transparent than John Monsaylock was, which is

Starting point is 00:27:13 refreshing. Good. The four of left-handed hitting bats that we have Donnie, Gorman, Newfar, and Burleson, I'm writing about who is most likely to get traded this winter of that bunch. Ooh, yeah, because there's an argument for all of them to get shipped and all of them to stay. Yeah, there's a lot of reasons to like and dislike things that each one of them do. So it makes a lot of sense. So make sure you guys check that out at RedbirdRance.com.

Starting point is 00:27:40 Be sure to follow Thomas at Thomas Govain on X as well and be on the lookout for all of his work moving forward. We want to thank you guys for making a lockdown Cardinals your first list in every day if you haven't already. please give us a follow on X at L0 underscore Cardinals at a JD Sports Radio, TikTok, and Instagram and Lockdown Cardinals, like, subscribe on YouTube. You guys are the best fans of baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals. Thomas, thank you as always for your time, big guy. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:28:06 Thank you, JD. Don't throw any gum at the kids today, okay? No, of course not. I never do. No.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Burleson's Heroics OVERSHADOWED by Contreras' Meltdown?

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