Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - END Of The Miles Mikolas Era in St. Louis

Starting point is 00:00:00 Miles Michaelis goes out with a bang as the Cubs tee off on him yet again and perhaps his farewell game as a member of the St. Louis Cardinals. You are locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Hafford and a former national radio sports anchor reported raised at St. Louis and a lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Lockedon Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day. This is a show serving Cardle Nation and giving you all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fandul. Right now, new customers can bet just $5. And if your bed wins, you'll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app.

Starting point is 00:00:47 So download the app today. On today's show, we've got your thoughts and comments on the Sunny Gray situation. Our friend Thomas Govain from Redwood Grants.com has three potential realistic trade spots for Sunny Gray. So we'll discuss those as well today. But we're going to start with what I'll politely call the whooping at Wrigley that took place on Friday afternoon in what was in all likelihood, Miles Michaelis, his final start as a member of the St. Louis Cardinals and in a St. Louis Cardinals uniform. It did not go well for Miles or the Cardinals as they got trounced by the playoff bound Cubs 12 to 1. Miles, who had pitched very well in his previous five starts, was hoping to get one last quality start in before his season. it ends and before, you know, most likely his time with the St. Louis Cardinals ends.

Starting point is 00:01:36 For those who aren't aware, he is going to be a free agent at the end of the season. And unless he decides to sign for something way cheaper, they'll likely have to find work somewhere else if he's going to continue his career in the major leagues. I'm guessing someone will give him a shot, but I believe his time with the Cardinals is over. Just time to turn the page. like we don't need to go back and do this again. You know, he's had seven seasons with the Cardinals. It's time to move on for everybody.

Starting point is 00:02:11 So I'm sure he'll find work. I'm guessing somebody will sign him to a one-year deal for way less than what he's making now. But it shouldn't be in St. Louis. And I prefer it not to be in St. Louis, although the Cardinals are going to be looking for starting pitching. So that's why I'm not completely shutting the ball. book on everything. I'm not going to say 100% it's over, but it should be. Last time pitching it Riggily against the Cubs. It was another patented Michaelis massacre when the fireworks were popping

Starting point is 00:02:43 on the 4th of July and shites out of the Cubs and six home runs off of him in an 11 to 3 route. It wasn't that bad on Friday, but once again, the Cubs went deep three more times against him, including the first inning by Nico Horner, who now has a whopping seven home runs on the season. So it's not like it was just the big boys. Nico took him yard. PCA, who had just four home runs since the All-Star break, took him deep for a two-run shot in that fourth to make a three-nobing. 30th home run of the season for PCA gives him a 30-30 season.

Starting point is 00:03:15 And to say that he owns Miles Michaelis would be an understatement. That home run was the fifth time that he's homered off Michaelis in his career. And you're probably saying, hey, wait, hold on. But hasn't he like, isn't he kind of a new player? hasn't really been in the league very long. That's correct. You are on the right path there. He has not been in the league very long. Five home runs and nine at bats. Off of Michaelis, he was six for eight against him coming into that at bat after striking out earlier in the game. And of those six hits, four of them had left the yard. So talk about a guy that is going to be really sad to see Miles Michaelis leaving the St. Louis Cardinals and possibly the division, PCA.

Starting point is 00:03:57 PCA needs to set of flowers or chocolates or something to see if he can get him to stay in the division because he has owned him. Then in the fifth inning, he had Michael Bush with the solo shot, makes it four to nothing. The Cubs would go on to mutilate the bullpen for eight more runs that included a Sizukey Grand Slam off of Chris Roycroft. Suzuki had just four home runs since the All-Star break. So really nice to see all the guys on the Cubs who have been ice cold just hitting nukes against the Cardinals pitching staff. the only one missing really was Kyle Tucker. You know, he was the only one that didn't hit one that hasn't been, you know, he's been hurt. So that's a guy that the Cubs are going to want to get going as they headed into postseason play.

Starting point is 00:04:37 But Michaelis loses his 11th game of the season, fourth straight ear that he's had double-digit losses, by the way. And if you're going to turn this ship around, if you're going to turn the Cardinals thing around and rebuild like they say they are going to, then Michaelis just cannot be a part of this, okay? he is synonymous with not winning. You know, I don't have anything against Miles Michaelis as a person. Teammates seem to love him. He's very quotable for members of the media, which is fun because some of these guys can be pretty dry.

Starting point is 00:05:14 And early on in his career, he wasn't like that bad, you know. He was unexpectedly pretty darn good when he came over from Japan. what was that, 2018, and he had 18 wins that season. Like, that's no joke, you know, that's no joke at all. Miles, uh, wasn't bad. All-Star, finished six in the Cy Young voting. All-Star again in 2022. He's also a guy that outside of the 2020, 2020, 2021 seasons,

Starting point is 00:05:46 where he had to have that flex or tendon surgery would take the ball every fifth day, very reliable, and there's something to say for that. You know, injuries happen to pitchers a lot. So, you know, having him available more times or not, that's something. That's definitely something. He also didn't get a ton of run support over his time with the Cardinals, which certainly hurt his overall win total. But the last three seasons have been ugly.

Starting point is 00:06:16 They've been very ugly. The numbers don't lie. He just has not been very good. Okay. 2023 goes 9 and 13 4.7 ERA led the NL and hits against and tied for six in the NL in home runs against. Mo then gives them a two-year extension after that season worth $40 million. I remember at the time when it happened and they had the whole thing in spring training with the press conference and the talking to them. And I remember going, I guess I kind of understand and I get why they're doing this.

Starting point is 00:06:49 but at the same time I'm like, but he's not really that good. Like, why? Why? Why did we do that? 2024, 10 and 11, 5.35 ERA, third of the NL and hits against and sixth in the NL and home runs against. And then here in 2025, 8 and 11, 4.84 ERA,

Starting point is 00:07:07 11th in the L and hits against, fourth in the NL and home runs against. This is who he is. You know, he gets tattooed a lot. And if I'm rebuilding a team, I don't need a pitcher, as I said earlier, synonymous with losing. I don't need that in my rotation. I would rather have young guys who are learning to become winners

Starting point is 00:07:30 and are probably going to lose some games while they figure that out, then a veteran who's going to get overpaid and do just as bad. I don't need that. So I think that this will be the end of his time with the Cardinals. you know, thank you, Lizard King. Thank you for your time served. But, you know, we already got secondhand store Andre Palante to worry about now. I don't need the original here anymore.

Starting point is 00:08:02 Okay. Palante's the next one. Now we've got to figure out how to make him not suck ass and make him not give a, you know, ungodly amounts of hits and walks. And now we got that problem on our hands, you know? So I don't need a Miles Michaelis to worry about. The offense, not much to mention in the game on Friday, was without Brennan Donovan, who's available for emergencies at this point,

Starting point is 00:08:26 but his season's basically over. They know showed getting one run on five hits struck out 14 times. Too long, too long, two lone bright spots. We're Nolan Gorman going two for four, Jordan Walker, driving in the lone RBI, but that was it. One last 12 to one, Miles Michaelis Massacre to end on. It was very fitting for his career with the Cardinals to end this way. You know, let me know what you think about Miles and his career as a Cardinal.

Starting point is 00:08:56 That extension still is like, did we have to do that? Anyway, your thoughts and comments as far as moving on from Miles would love to have them. So leave them in the comments section. We're going to sip through some of your comments from our last episode, which had a lot to do with Sunny Gray, his comments, trade situation. So we're going to get into some of that here in just a little bit, plus the three destinations that Thomas Govain feels that make a lot of sense realistically for

Starting point is 00:09:26 Sunny Gray to get traded to if he indeed asks for a trade. So we'll talk about all of this coming up next here on Lockdown Cardinals. Guys, you've probably heard of Viagra or Cialis. Maybe you've even tried them. But if you're looking for something that goes beyond the usual pill, time for you to meet Rouguette Golong. Now that's Rouguette go long. They come in when you need a little bit of extra. They're there to help. This isn't just another ED Phil. It's a total game changer, and it's all about confidence.

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Starting point is 00:11:22 We're also on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram at Lockdown Cardinals. Comments made by Sonny Gray following his start on Wednesday. He got the Cardinals chatter all a buzz, right? And for good reason, you know, for the first time since he's been a member of the Cardinals, I, for one, sense the frustration and the unhappiness with the way things have gone in St. Louis. You know, most of the time when Sonny is doing interviews, he's focused on whatever he did in the game that day or night. It's not about anything outside of that. For the first time, we got to hear him.

Starting point is 00:11:55 discuss what his future may or may not be with the St. Louis Cardinals. His quotes about coming here to win, expecting to win. That was a big word for him. Winning is very important to Sunny Gray. And the fact that that wasn't happening, the first two seasons of his deal, obviously is weighed on his mind a little bit, that he thinks he needs to consider a trade because of the way things are in the direction this team is going in, that he's talked to high in bloom multiple times about the direction of this team in 2026 and that he knows the deal. That was the quote that he said a couple times. You know, we've heard similar stuff from Nolan Aronado about understanding the direction of the team

Starting point is 00:12:37 and that he would be more open to a deal of this offseason because of it. And fans are understandably frustrated by it. I'm frustrated by it. You know, we had we just talked about it this past offseason how this is what they were planning on doing and the guys didn't really want to go anywhere. So I've got some comments from you guys. We call these the Cardinal Confessions. That way we're not calling you out and making you, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:00 where people can yell at you or something. I just use whatever it is you commented and then we discuss it. So first one here, you sure can't blame Sonny for going somewhere else. He did his part for two years. And a lot of the time it's not money. It's politics. There were a lot of really good free agent pitchers that were available.

Starting point is 00:13:18 But no, we can't do that. I am still a big red bird fan, but I am getting fed up with the front office. Hopefully the front office will make some better decisions next year. Yeah, I, you know, I've seen a lot of comments like this, you know, and that's the one thing is there's a lot of you in the comments section that say similar things. So, you know, we're going to kind of answer all of that here. You know, I just, I can't blame you for your feelings towards the front office. I think that until this year, Cardle's ownership has spent,

Starting point is 00:13:50 plenty of money to produce a winner and gave John Mosaic plenty of funding to maintain their status among the better teams in the league. There was never a situation where they were going to spend the amount of money that some of these other teams are. That's just not who they are. You know, it's not a major market. But, you know, they were, you know, top 15, top 10 payroll for many years. And I, my problem is that, and I put a lot of this on,

Starting point is 00:14:20 John Moseilk, I just do. That most of his decisions in recent years, not through his whole tenure, because there was a lot of successful John Moseilac was here. But in recent years, a lot of his decision making has been terrible. These things haven't worked out. He'll tell you that himself.

Starting point is 00:14:39 You know, when they were spending money, like I said, when they were top 10, top 15 payroll, they spent it on guys who didn't work out, didn't end up living up to those contracts. You know, there's a ton of them we could go through. I'm not going to. We can save that for another day when we want to. But like when they found themselves at a spot with,

Starting point is 00:15:03 because it's not just that. It's not just who they spent the money on. It's who they kept around as well. When they found themselves in a spot with, you know, an abundance of talent at a certain position like in the outfield. How long have we heard it's a log jam of talent in the outfield, right? We've heard that over and over. That's been shipped to us for many, many years.

Starting point is 00:15:20 they would keep guys who wouldn't pan out so well and tradeaway guys that went on to do better than they expected, I guess. You know, Mo spoke on the morning after about the Rosarena deal, and they were, you know, cracking a little joke like, hey, if he didn't have a Wi-Fi, would he still be here? And it sucks, we got to keep falling back to this. But it's a big turning point where people see that and know, this is kind of where things started to go south.

Starting point is 00:15:45 Most said at that time that they had Tyler O'Neill and Randy a Rosarena. They wanted to get a young starting pitcher. That was their goal. And he said that they chose the wrong guy to get rid of. It does happen. I'm not expecting whoever, you know, whoever the GM of any team that you root for, they're not going to be perfect.

Starting point is 00:16:05 There's going to be deals that don't work. It's just part of being the GM and president of baseball operations. So, I mean, there's been some good deals that John Moselek has made, too. So nobody's perfect. But the problem was is that after that deal went down with a Rosarena for Matthew Libertor, and then a Rosarena goes on to become what he's been, it kept happening where it didn't matter who we sent away. That guy went on to have some sort of success.

Starting point is 00:16:34 You know, Sandy Alcantra goes on to Winnecite Young. Zach Allen's been very good with Arizona. Dolis Garcia was a stud for the Rangers in the playoffs. Jordan Montgomery was a stud for the Rangers in the playoffs. they want a ring together. Tommy Edmund just was a stud in the playoffs for the Dodgers last year. he goes on to win a ring. Year after year was former Cardinals shining on the biggest stages. And every time it happened, it feels like multiple slaps to the face, right? To the fan base to, you know, that's how it feels. You're like, dude, really?

Starting point is 00:17:06 Like watching Garcia and a Rose Arena in the home run derby against each other a couple years ago, like that was a slap in the face. You're like, look at all these talented guys that used to be in this organization. They're no longer here. And then look at what we're putting out on the field at this time. And meanwhile, the Cardinals also aren't winning anymore. And watching these guys succeed while the Cardinals fall, just salt in the moon over and over. So I get it. You know, and hopefully whatever Hyman Bloom decides to do, that he's a better decision maker when it comes to stuff like this than what Mo has been over the last few seasons, because it's been bad. Here's a couple of different ones.

Starting point is 00:17:47 I kind of bundled these together, which views things in a not so positive light for Sunny Gray. Sunny could have left. He wanted to stay. It's hard to feel sorry for him when they begged him to accept the trade. Maybe Sunny should actually pitch like a top of the rotation starter if he wants to win so bad. Let's not act like he is some top shelf number one. He's pitched like a number three since he came to St. Louis. A lot of those comments were sent in to me as well.

Starting point is 00:18:16 And, you know, as I mentioned, this past offsees, and I feel like we all knew the drill. They weren't going to pay players to surround Sunny Gray and Nato and Willie with. They just weren't going to go buy top flight players. And we're going to let the younger guys get a chance to shine and step into these roles or crash and burn while doing it. So I agree, they had a chance to leave before the season. Arnado got the headlines because there was a deal in place. You know, he was willing to go to certain teams, had some. some some of these guys come calling and ask about him,

Starting point is 00:18:49 but Sonny and Willie out of the gate reportedly said they did not want to be traded and wanted to be a Cardinal. And then, of course, we get Nato, who turns down the deal to the Houston Astros. I will always be curious, you know, what was involved there, like how much money was going to be paid by the Cardinals, what players were coming in return from Houston. I will always be intrigued and wonder what that deal actually looks. look like, but not Oviedoed it and cardals were stuck with him again. I'm one of those guys who

Starting point is 00:19:23 think Sunny has been kind of what we thought he'd be. I wasn't expecting, because you remember when they got him from Minnesota, he was, you know, finished second in the side young and the AL. I wasn't really expecting another performance like that from him, you know, but I was expecting him to be decent, you know, the amount of home runs he's given up is the one thing that stands out to me. really been a problem here well beyond what I thought he'd be after, what was it? It was like single digit home runs that he gave up with Minnesota and then he's been in the 20s with the Cardinals in both years this year, setting a new career high in home runs against. Also the ERA Plus last year, 107, which was a dip, a big dip from where he was that year with

Starting point is 00:20:08 Minnesota, but still above league average, but this year he's under league average at 96. So that's disappointing. But I also expected the Cardinals to not just sit on him as the only guy they could trust. You know, I expected them to go sign or trade for someone to go along with Sunny Gray at the top of your rotation. But instead, they surrounded him with Miles Michaelis and Eric Fetty and Andre Palante and Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson. I mean, first off, listen to those names and look at those names. What team is going to win with those guys as the meat of your? rotation. Like, that's disgustingly bad. So if you had invested in better options, there were plenty of

Starting point is 00:20:51 those guys out there. If you had invested in those and had been able to develop any sort of pitching in your farm system, then maybe things would have been different. But it's not. Now, I don't know what interest certain free agents had in coming to play in St. Louis. You know, I've said for a couple of years now that it's going to be tough to talk free agents into coming to St. Louis. First off, you're not. winning like you used to. There's no star power there. Now you've got the crowds dissipating, and it's in the middle of the Midwest. It's not the most ideal place to live compared to a lot of these other markets. Like it's ungodly hot. They're not going to give you top tier money.

Starting point is 00:21:33 You know, it's, I feel like it's going to be a struggle. And I think the Cardinals realize that, and that's why they're starting to focus on, all right, player development, let's draft guys who have to be with us and then make them into studs and turn this thing around that way. So that's why I kind of, I agree with what they're trying to pull off. But, you know, when they were trying to get other guys with Sunny Gray, you know, and Mo made that quote where he's like, yeah, you know, these guys wanted to be here. Maybe some other people are like, I'm just not interesting. That's a possibility as well.

Starting point is 00:22:02 But I can't help to think that they got to be a better sales person and do a better job to get some of these guys to come here. So that's my thoughts. on that. Thomas Govain from Redwood Brants.com listed three teams he thinks could be a realistic good fit for Sunny Gray if he were to be traded. So we'll talk about his latest article coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. The NFL season is here and Fandall is making sure you're ready for kick off with a can't miss offer right now new customers. You can bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you'll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app in any way you feel like that would

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Starting point is 00:23:54 out MLB game night every game every night until the World Series champion is crown. Get local analysis, but on a national scale, you can find MLB game night on the lockdown on the YouTube channel or wherever you listen to podcasts. Now, the trade is made involving Sunny Gray, which sounds like he's going to be open to it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen, but it'll be open to it. what teams realistically would be in the running for a guy who's going to be a 36-year-old starter next year and is making $35 million. Obviously, the cartels are going to have to eat some of that money.

Starting point is 00:24:28 If they're going to move them, nobody's going to take the full thing on. It's just not going to happen. But unless Heimblum is a miracle man and can figure it out somehow, I can't imagine that would happen. But Thomas Govain, you've seen him on the show many, many times. listed in his full free article, which is linked in the information down below and in the show notes, three places where he's like,

Starting point is 00:24:53 this would make sense. First one, no surprise. We brought it up here before, San Francisco Giants, who were reportedly keeping an eye on him. And clearly they've got money to spend. They just took on that whole Devers contract. They've been looking for star players.

Starting point is 00:25:08 They are not afraid to bring in higher-priced veterans. You know, Verlanders, with them this year. They're fine with that. And I brought this up. Thomas brings it up as well. Very good point is that would Sunny be cool being that far away from his home in Nashville, which is one of the reasons why he chose St.

Starting point is 00:25:31 Louis as one of his possible destinations when he was a free agent. He was like, well, I want to be close to home, which is in Nashville. So that would be quite a distance to get you out to the coast. So I don't know if that's realistic just because of that, but I don't know. With him being open to trades, maybe he's willing to go to a place like San Francisco, which seems like a good fit. I mean, it doesn't seem like it would be a bad spot for him, but I don't know if that's where he would want to be considering what he wants to do with the family. Second spot he lists is a spot that I thought he would go to during his free agency

Starting point is 00:26:08 after Minnesota. I don't think he was coming to the Cardinals. I think I thought they were going to try more. I didn't think he was going to. I thought he was going to go to the Atlanta Braves. I thought that made the most sense. The Braves have had a really rough year this year because of all the different injuries, which led to a rare losing season in Atlanta. But they've got tons of star power coming back. Sunny wouldn't have to be the number one by any means there. They've got a club option for Cressale, who was really good outside. You know, he was hurt again this year, but has been really good. But sunny would be like the three or four. work in Atlanta, which is, if you had Sunny Green on your team, that would be a great spot

Starting point is 00:26:46 to half a bit, right? They've already got a Spencer Strider who's coming back from injury and has pitched much better here at the back end of the season. Hurston Waldrop was awesome as a rookie for them. Spencer Schwellenbach should be back next year. They've got a tradition of winning. They've got the offense, obviously, with Ronald de Cunia Jr. Matt Olson, Austin Riley, Ozzy Albies who just got hurt at the end of the year. But Michael Harris, Sean Murphy as a catcher, like they should be good next year. And Sunny Gray would be a great fit,

Starting point is 00:27:21 I think, with the Atlanta Braves. So it makes a lot of sense for both sides. Last 20 list, interdivision possibility one here. He says the Cincinnati Reds. Sunny's been there before, pitched well there before. He had a lot of success with them, another spot where, because he came from there.

Starting point is 00:27:39 the Yankees and went to the Reds. And remember he had a tough time in New York, back to Cincinnati, Midwest place, and was more comfortable, obviously. It's close to Nashville. So that makes sense. But another spot where he wouldn't even remotely have to be the top guy. They've got a ton of arms in Cincinnati, Hunter Green,

Starting point is 00:28:00 Andrew Abbott, Nick Lidolo, Chase Burns, Brady Singer. They don't have the most money. So if you were due this trade, $35 million. you're definitely going to eat a bunch of that because they don't have the funding. They're not going to spend that much money on a pitcher. Trading in the division, obviously, is that something normal? Because you never want to have to, you know, face that guy again all the time. But of the three here, that makes the least amount of sense.

Starting point is 00:28:30 I feel like the Reds need help in other areas than starting pitching. But they were in on it when he was a free agent. They were interested in bringing Sunny Gray. So if it's a one-year deal, we've seen. seen them spend on guys like Frankie Montas on a one-year deal and spend one and then ship them off if it didn't work out. That's something, I mean, Sunny Gray's got a no trade clause. But, you know, I understand why he listed them as a possibility, but I feel like of the three, that's the one that makes the least amount of sense on the cardinal side of things.

Starting point is 00:29:02 I think the Braves is a perfect fit for Sunny Gray. I think he would thrive there and really enjoy his time in Atlanta if that's something they could work out. I'm actually not sure what the Atlanta farm system is looking like these days. We could save that for another episode, but we can look at that and see what kind of trade could be made. But I'd also like to throw in teams like the Guardians or the Detroit Tigers. I know Detroit's a little more north. And so is so is Cleveland than Cincinnati. But I feel like those are some possible suitors that wouldn't be such bad places for Sunny to go and are currently winning things. You know, the Guardians have overtaken the Tigers, which has been crazy after they were

Starting point is 00:29:45 the best team in the first half of the season. So let me know what you guys think down below. What city, what team makes the most sense for a trade for Sunny Gray and the Cardinals? Let me know. And we can use that as some stuff to talk about in our next episode. But enjoy the rest of your weekend. Thanks for making a lot to our first listen every day. If you haven't already, give us a follow on X at L0 underscore Cardinals and a JD Sports Radio,

Starting point is 00:30:08 TikTok and Instagram and Lockdown Cardinals. Like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason, and we will see you next time on Locktown Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - END Of The Miles Mikolas Era in St. Louis

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