Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - How Will The Latest Arenado News Change The Cardinals Lineup

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

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It appears that we have a conclusion to the Nolan Aronado trade talks, at least for now. And I want to talk about how the lineup shakes out, knowing that Nolan Aronado is likely going to be back on this team in 2025. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals. I'm J.D. Hafford and I am your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. We're covering your team every day. You can follow me on Twitter, X at JD Sports Radio and the podcast at L.O underscore Cardinals. I do want to thank those of you who make Lockedong Cardinals,

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Fandall is right now giving their customers $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. Just download the app or head to fandle.com to get started. So week one of spring training is underway in the big story surrounding the Cardinals has been whether or not Nolan Aronado was going to get dealt, the arbitration cases that had to do with Lars Newpar, Donovan and Andre Palante. And really, what are the vibes around camp so far before the position players are set to report next week? We talked about the arbitration stuff yesterday.

Palante and Nupar won their cases. Bernard Donovan did not, although he did say he's like, I'm not a disgruntled employee or something. You know, it's, you know, it is what it is. The vibes around camp, at least, you know, watching, you know, videos and interviews and whatnot. seem to be pretty positive. You know, people are excited to be back at camp, obviously. And a lot of people feel like that this younger roster has a lot to prove and they welcome the challenge, okay, normal stuff that you would want them to say and think they would say.

The Aronado stuff has been talked about a ton and hopefully we don't have to talk too much more about it moving forward. But for good reason, it's been talked about a ton. But as of this morning, it appears that Nolan Arnato is going to be a cardinal this year. Now, sure, things can change. Of course, maybe an injury happens to one of these teams that he was interested in going to, and they decide to make a call to the Cardinals later on and see what the availability is of Nolan or Nano. But again, if Nato doesn't want to go anywhere at this point, then he doesn't have to.

He's got the no trade clause. I've been saying that if Nato got to camp, that I would think he's probably going to stay on this team for opening day and for most of the season, whether or not things change at the trade deadline, whatever. but that's way down the road. I'm not concerned with that right now. I know personally if I was him, I'd want to be with this team. You know, whoever I was going to play for this year,

I would want to be in their camp right now. And that's where I would want to have it all settled by this point. You know, I wouldn't want to report to a team that I didn't think I was going to play for anymore. And it appears that at this point, he's going to be a cardinal. and John Moseylock has embraced the fact that he's likely going to be here saying that he exhausted the list of teams that Nano had on his list. And the other side of this is they don't seem all that upset about this. You know, and Mo doesn't think that R.Nano is going to be all that upset about it. You know, I'm sure he's a little bit bummed that something didn't get done.

But Mo told the media, I think it will be a little less awkward than I thought. He knows that we tried. He knows that we had a deal that he didn't accept. I'm not bitter. I don't think he'll be better. I think from a team standpoint as a group, we can make this work. And the whole process with this trade has, it's been interesting because at no time was anyone upset at one another. And I've said this before. Every day yours can attest to this. Normally, you have one side or the other that is disgruntled with something. Normally, it's the player who wants out of a situation. You see it all the time in sports in every different

sport. NBA, NHL, NFL, they won out because of money issues or playing time issues or maybe there's a family situation that pops up and they want to be moved or whatever. A trade then gets forced. It's something that just has to happen for things to move on and there's no turning back. This situation was quite cordial the entire time. I'm sure the discussion was the same with Sunny Gray and Wilson Contreras as it was with Nolan Aronado, where Moe went to him and said, hey, here's our direction. This is what we're going for in 2025. We're not going to be jumping into the free agency pool. We're not adding a bunch of names. We like the people that we have. We want to see these guys get some time. And if you want to stay and be a part of that,

great. If you want us to try and find something for you, move you somewhere that, you know, might have a better chance at a ring or something. We can do that as well. The ball is really in you're a court. And Sunny Gray and Wilson Contreras both said, we'll stick it through. We want to stay here. We want to be in St. Louis. Nato said, well, it wasn't like, get me the hell out of here. We've never heard a report that R. Nato was like, I'm out. Like, get me. I don't want to be here. I don't like it here. I'm leaving. That was never, never, never brought up. He basically gave him some places that he'd be interested in playing for, you know, different cities that he would like. It didn't work out. It just didn't work out. So Nato is still a cardinal, and that's not a horrible thing by any means.

You know, this is this is not, no offense to Brandon Crawford, who was signed during spring training last year. But this is not like someone like Brandon Crawford, who seemed to be on his last leg coming into the season. So much that even the Giants were like, yeah, Brandon, we're going to move on. You know, it's not like that's the type of player that's eating up a starting spot on your team in 2025 and giving you almost nothing in return on offense, very limited on defense. Notto can still hit. Is he on the decline? Yes. Is he hot garbage?

Absolutely not. He's your best defensive third baseman. It's still one of the best in the league. Finalist for the gold glove last year. And as I mentioned in the show with Gabby earlier in the week from Locked on Red Sox this week. week right before they signed Bregman. Nata was tied for fourth and batting average among third basement and in all of Major League Baseball. He was 10th in RBIs. That probably has a lot to do with the lineup that was around him. That was just four RBIs behind Bregman, who just signed

that massive deal with Boston. The power numbers have fallen off dramatically. And I wouldn't expect them to just magically reappear in 2025. But Derek Gould from the Post Dispatch reports that he has worked with new Cardinal City coach Brad Brown in person. He has been in constant contact with the team's trainers about his offseason work. He took up kickboxing exercises and martial arts to work on his explosiveness. You've seen, if you follow him on Instagram, you've seen the videos. He's been on the field daily working on things, hitting defense, recently visited the University of Texas as part of his preparation for the season and work to rediscover the

pullside power that slipped from his hands in 2024. The guy is doing everything he can to not let this decline get any worse, to not really fall off a cliff in the next, at least this year. And years moving forward. That way he can be more like the guy we saw in 2022 when he was a finalist for the MVP than the guy that we've seen over the last couple seasons. He's trying to figure it out. He really is.

So we got to give him credit there. And hopefully all these doubters will fuel him. them to have a kind of go F yourself type of season and do it in a Cardinals uniform and hopefully make this team better. So how does Nato coming back affect the rest of this lineup moving forward? That's something we're going to discuss next on Locked on Cardinals. When the game tips off, the NBA action is just getting started. And there's no better place to get in on it than with Fandul. America's number one sports book. With Fandul, you can play slide bets throughout the game.

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Make every moment more with Fandall, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Thank you again for making Loxon Cardinals, your first list in every day. You can leave your comments on YouTube as well as on Twitter X. Anytime you want, your feedback is always welcome and encouraged. If you're watching on YouTube right now, you might notice behind me, I've got a balloon here because it is Valentine's Day, by the way. So hopefully if you do have a Valentine, you're spending that time with them. I'm getting ready to head out and take my wife to dinner. And she got me this cool balloon. It's a monkey with a banana underneath.

And it says bananas for you. Pretty nice. Pretty nice. Cool stuff. And this is, I have a fat head of my wife for when she does sports stuff. I like to bring it out and embarrass her. So that's my wife, Sarah. So happy Valentine's Day, babe.

But yeah, back to spring training. We'll talk about that now. Let's talk about the lineups because I'm a gamer type of guy. Like I love playing MLB the show, revving it up because MLB the show 25 looks super cool. I'm excited about that. So I've been playing a lot of MLB the show 24 recently. And it gives you a chance to like tinker with lineups and stuff.

And I know it's a video game, but a lot of it makes sense in real life too. The idea of trading away Aronado, if you remember, was to not only save money, but to also get more at bats for some other guys on the roster, some younger guys, more specifically in the organization. That looks like it's going to have to wait a little bit now that Nato's expected back at third base with his normal 600 at bat season. But I've got a projected starting lineup that, in my opinion, when healthy, this is what it should look like against a right-hander.

We'll just go around the horn here. left field, Brennan Donovan, center field, Lars Neupar, right field, you got Walker, third base, it's Nato, shortstop, Mason, Wynn, second baseman, first base contraris. My catcher is Herrera. My DH is Alec Berluson. Now, as far as the batting order goes, if they like to do the lefty-righty thing, which I think it helps, you know, later in games when the opposing manager is trying to figure out what different relievers to go to at different times.

And because of the three batter rule, which, you know, has made things a little more difficult for managers when it comes to how they do the bullpen. If you want to go to the righty-lefty type of route, Mason wins leading off right now. Brennan Donovan would be in left field. Wilson Contreras at first. And then I got Alec Berluson as my D.H in the cleanup spot. No one are not a batting third.

Second base, it's Gorman, right field walker, center field, Neupar, catcher, Yvonne Herrera. Now the cleanup spot is where I think we're going to get a lot of discussion about. And the reason I put Alec Berlison there is because if whoever my cleanup guy is going to be, I needed to be somebody who's going to put the ball in play with regularity. That's what I want. Gorman would be a very, very sexy choice to have him back cleanup. And you know, when he's on one of his heaters, my goodness, like he could carry, right? But he's got to cut down on the strikeouts first because we know he's got the scary pop.

But if I can't trust him to put the ball in play with runners on, then he's got to go down in my lineup. One of the big problems last year was Paul Goldsmith, batting cleanup for as long as he did, or batting third, whenever, and not being able to come through in the clutch, striking out a lot last year, a lot for ball goldsmith. And that is not what I want to see again this year. I would rather see somebody put the ball in play. But ideally, Gorman at some point would hopefully get to a level where you can trust him in that cleanup spot. And then he can do a whole lot more damage. Although Burleson,

fantastic against Ritey's last year. I mean, he hit the snot out of the ball against those guys. So I just, I feel like he's a smarter move, a smarter move there. But I like Burley against the right handers for sure. Then it gets lefties. I'm not opposed to letting Luke and Baker get a crack at that DH spot over Burley, who was not good against left handers last year. He struggled mightily against the lefties. Hit just 195 and 133 at bats. Meanwhile, Lucan, granted. It's small sample size for Baker here, but he hit 278, both of his home runs off lefties last year when he was brought up. Seven of his 10 RBIs game against lefties. That was only in 18 games, and it's a small sample size.

But he's shown in his career in the minors that he does hit left-handers quite well. And so far in his career, Alec Burleson, has not hit left-handers very well. So why not? Why not? You know, maybe that's also a time where Luke and Baker can play some first base and Contreras can get off his feet in games like that. against lefties. These are things that Ollie's going to get a chance to toy with a little bit. But the rest of the team kind of remains the same as far as lineup goes. I'm not switching a lot of dudes out on my bench. I like Michael Siani, which I know Ali loves him in center field because of

the incredible defense that he showed us last year. And that's great. I love him too. You know this. Every day or no from last year, I'm a big Siani fan was a big proponent of having him in the lineup. and I just enjoy it because I love watching defense. I think it's great. But he's only that. You know, he's not a great offensive weapon. If he shows that he improves to a level where he deserves to get more starts than great. But at this point, I think we can all agree that Lars Neupar is a better offensive

player than Michael Siani. Right. So I need more offense in my lineup. That was something that we struggled with last year. And then late in games, you've got that option where you have the ability to move Newpar to right field. Walker comes out. Siani takes over center field. You still got Donnie and left. And you've still got a pretty solid defensive outfield there, right? So defensive purposes, Siani coming off the bench, being able to come off the bench for a chance to steal a base or

whatever because he's got that really good speed. I like that. I like that ability. We'll see if they feel the same way. I don't know if they will, but we'll see. Michael Helman, right-handed utility guy, again, a guy who can come off the bench as good wheels can play infield an outfield, which is fantastic. You like the versatility there where he can play middle infield for you. If he needs to play center field, he can do that too. Luke and Baker can't really do much other than D.H. and play first base. He's your right-handed bopper off the bench. You're looking for some late game power when he's not in the starting lineup. He's your guy. Pedro Paz is my backup catcher. Great defensively. Still well below Yvonne Herrera offensively.

So I'm still trying to get more offense. You can bring Pedro in later in games. If you want to switch it up and bring in a defensive specialist like that, fine. But I need offense early on. I need a lead first, right? So that really brings you down to guys like Jose Fermin and Matt Coperniac, Thomas Sejacy and Victor Scott. And for me, if Sejacy and Scott are not playing every day, then they've got to be in Memphis. I do not want to see these kids just rotting on the bench. That's not going to do them any good.

It's just not. It's not. and if C. J.C. and Scott are upset about that, tough because they need to be playing every day. And, you know, Thomas came up and he had a couple of bats that were nice, but like, it's not like he came up and lit the world on fire where you're like, ooh, this guy needs to be starting already. You know, he came up kind of the way Mason Wend did in his year in 2024 or 2023, where he came up at the end of the season and he looked a little bit overwhelmed at times. I don't think it hurts to have Sue Jacey down in the minors to start the season. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I don't think it's a bad thing for Victor Scott. Let him get all the abats in the world and play every day in center field at Memphis. And then those are the two top options to bring up if something happens to somebody. If New Park goes down, you've got a Siani, but you can also bring a Victor Scott up if you want to. If something happens, heaven forbid, Mason wins. Thomas C.J.C. is right there. waiting for you. Bring them up. You can let them play shorts out if you want. So that's what I'm thinking just at this moment. Again, very beginning of spring training. So what do you think?

What are your thoughts on this? Let me know in the comments section and on X. We're going to do some fan feedback next on Locktown Cardinals. Thank you again for making Locktown Cardinals. For your second list and find Lockton MLB baseball guru Sully brings you a daily blend of humor and baseball. He's going to be going through the entire spring training. He's got info on all the teams, including our Cardinals. You can find a lockdown email be on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. So time for fan feedback where we answer your questions, discuss your comments. And there's plenty to talk about this week.

So let's jump in and start with Daniel Means with recent news of Anthony Rendon being out for a long period of time due to another injury. And with the Angels, also one of Aronado's teams on his preferred list. Then maybe there's a deal to be made there, question mark. I brought this up, I think yesterday. I brought this up. It sounds like a very angels thing to do, right? To go and get a veteran guy and bring him in. But they did sign Yohan Moncada to a $5 million deal.

All right. They still have to pay Anthony Rendon, whether he's injured or not. So that is, and he's robbing the angels of another $38 million this year. So that's already $43 million. they've invested into the third base position to take on half of Aronado's contract, probably not in the cards. So I can't see them going out and trying to replace Rendon with, you know, another veteran, another expensive guy.

It just, it doesn't seem like it's going to make a lot of sense. They're probably just going to roll with Yohan Moncada and see what happens there. I'm not sure about what prospects they've got or who else could play third base for them in the, in the organization. I'm sure there's somebody that they'll take a look at. But it doesn't seem like that's something that would really happen. Not ideal if you are LA. That Rendon deal, by the way, so I did I did pull some numbers on this. And my gosh, do you guys realize that Anthony Rendon signed that deal was 2020. He's one of his first year with the Angels. Seven years, $245 million. So breaks down to $35 million annually. And I know it fluctuates because he only made like

10 to 13 that period, whatever. Annually broken up $35 million. Still got two years left on this deal, including this year. So five years, that's $175 million, and he's given them 257 games, 1,095 plate appearances, 22 home runs, and 125 RBIs in five years. That's almost $160,000 per plate appearance. per plate appearance. Isn't that nuts?

Still has two years left on this deal. This year and next. Has a no trade clause. Doesn't appear to really give a crap about baseball. He's even said in interviews where he's like, he's like, yeah, you know, it's my job. But, you know, it's just, it's bad. It's just unbelievable.

And this is the kind of stuff that, you know, white teams are shying away from the long-term deals because they don't normally work out all that well. One of the worst contracts in all of sports. It's history, no doubt. Jack Horton says Aronado had a slightly above average year last year, played excellent third base. His offensive numbers were lackluster because the whole team's offense was mostly lackluster. You got to have guys on base for RBIs, and if your lineup isn't wearing down the pitcher, of course, your superstar hitters are going to have a decline in

batting stats. Give them another year and some support from the rest of the lineup, see him thrive again. One bad or can't do it all for the team. It takes the whole lineup. Yeah, it was a tough year offensively for a lot of guys. And, you know, the number one names that you're going to point fingers at are Aronado Engulgemen. They were at the forefront because, you know, they make the most dope. And they're the veteran guys. Yeah, it's the former MVP and a former MVP finalist and three-time home run champion. You know, they got these great resumes.

And then both of them having bad years, that's going to crush any lineup. You know, it's like if the Yankees last year got, you know, the worst seasons ever out of Juan Soto and Aaron Judge, they probably weren't going to be very good. And the Cardinals, again, win 83 games with both of them, having terrible season. And then you've got on top of that the struggles for Gorman and Walker, guys, they thought were going to be in the starting lineup all year. They were not. They were expected to be a big part of things last year.

You had the injuries to Wilson Contreras. He's gone half the year. Newpar, again, injuries. It was ugly. It was ugly last year. And it allowed guys like Mason Wynn and Alec Berluson and Michael Ciani to get, uh, more looks and more at bats, Ivan Herrera, Pedro Paez,

you know, you got to see these guys. And it, you know, it made the transition to deciding to do what they're doing this year a little bit easier because you're like, well, these guys can play. Why am I paying or overpaying veterans to do the things that these guys can already do? So that is one thing that worked out for the Cardinals last year because of some of the

issues they had. I'm hoping that the new voice of Brant Brown as your hitting coordinator, We'll make a difference in things for Nato and Gorman and Walker. You know, they seem to be very excited. These Walker seems to be very excited about some of the changes he's making. You want to be able to get 130 games from Contreras and Newport. That would be nice as well. You're also hoping for no sophomore slumps from guys like Mason Wend.

You're hoping that a Bon Herrera can make up for his defensive deficiencies with the bat that looked really, really good last year. Having Newton the lineup over Siani should be a huge boost to the, offense. Now, not everything goes as planned. Very rarely does it go as planned. There will be ups and downs, but you're going to be looking for consistency from a lineup that really never played a lot of games together at full strength in 2024. And you can see how, you know, the numbers got affected by that. But to your point, yes, if the Cardinals are going to win more than they lose this year, they're going to need production from everyone in the lineup. This isn't a lineup that where you can rely on one or two guys to do all the heavy lifting and carry you.

Last one here. Ikele-in says absolutely love the Matt's rant. I'm in full agreement. Put him in the bullpen. We've seen what he does out of the pin and it's pretty damn good. They can't afford to make him make four starts and go down injured for six weeks. That is just money wasted at that point. Sure, he's making 11 million. But if he's always injured, it is better spent on a guy that can do long relief versus a guy who's always in rehab. And the money aside, because that money's already gone and spent, we'll see how things shape up in the spring. Again, injuries will dictate a lot of what happens for this rotation moving forward. Guys are going to get sore shoulders or blisters on their fingers or hamstring strains.

You know, there's a number of little things that happen to two pitchers and knock these guys out for a week or two. And then they fall behind and then they're not ready for opening day. And that's when Ali will have to shuffle things accordingly. thinking they'll make it through the spring without at least one starter going down is fools gold, in my opinion. It happens almost every year, and at least it feels like the Cardinals have some extra depth this year, that if and when someone does go down, they can fill that void without really screwing things up for the rest of the pitching staff altogether, not just the rotation. I know Libertor has said that, you know, he's stretching out as if he's going to be a starter. it's easier to begin the year that way and then, you know, tail it back.

And I'm guessing he's ahead of someone like maybe Quinn Matthews or Gordon Grostho on the starting totem pole at this point. But, you know, I really like seeing him in the bullpen. He looked really good there, very comfortable. And listening to him in interviews this week, he said, I don't care if I'm starting or if I'm in the pin. I just want to pitch. I want to pitch well and help the team win.

And so far, he's been able to do that a lot more often as a member of the bullpen. than as a starting pitcher. But we'll see how things go. If everyone is healthy, though, and that's a big if, obviously, I would prefer to see the starting rotation consist of Sunny Gray, Eric Fetty, Andre Palante, Miles Michaelis,

and Michael McGreevy with Matt as your long guy or is your sixth starter in the bullpen, Hellsley closing, Fernandez, Romero, Libby, King, and a mix of whomever has the best springs, you know, making a monster competition between guys like Riley O'Brien and Chris Roy Kroft, Hio Lehi, Raiolutus, Roder Rottori Munoz.

You know, don't forget about him. He's a guy that maybe sneaks up and becomes a member of this bullpen. Nick Robertson, the veteran that they signed to a minor league deal. Zach Thompson's still around. Matt Svonson is still around as well. So there are a lot of names there. And, you know, I'm interested to see how they all compete for the final spots in that bullpen. All right.

Thanks for making a lot. It's your first list. Every day, if you haven't already, give us a follow on Twitter X. LO underscore Cardinals and a JD Sports Radio, like, subscribe on YouTube and help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. Speaking of love, have a happy Valentine's Day. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.