Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - PANIC: St. Louis Cardinals' LOSING STREAK Continues

Starting point is 00:00:00 St. Louis Cardinals almost got no hit in Milwaukee as their toughest stretch of the season continues, despite having their number one on the mound. This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey, the Cardinals, I'm Jady Hafford and I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day. Follow me on X to JD Sports Radio as well as the podcast on X at L0 underscore Cardinals. We're also on YouTube, subscribe, comment, like, you know, the drill. You don't you understand what we're doing here. TikTok, Instagram.

Starting point is 00:00:45 We're there as well, locked on Cardinals. This is show serving Cardinal Nation, giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode being brought to you by Fandul. Right now, new customers can get $200 in bonus bets. With your first $5 bet wins. Welcome back. Thomas Gauvain back at the first. the house, ladies and gentlemen, from Redbird rants.com. He joins us once again. We gave you a little

Starting point is 00:01:08 summer break, if you will, and now he's back. I tortured him enough where he's like, all right, dude, stop. I'll come on and I'll hang out and I'll talk some ball with you. How's your summer going so far? Yeah, it's good. Home with both my kids over the summer, hanging out, spend some time, seeing the sights around Kansas City. It's been good. What do you guys like to do other than baseball activities. What do you and the family like to do in the summer? Honestly, I'm the only person in my family who loves doing the baseball activities, so I kind of keep that to myself. Outside of that, we'll go to like the parks around town. There's a couple of museums. Two summers ago, I made a spreadsheet of like all the free things

Starting point is 00:01:47 in Kansas City to do. So we kind of just run through that list each week. Yeah, it's fun. Nice, nice. Do you guys have a pool or anyone near you have a pool? Yeah, our community we live in has a pool. So we'll go there. We went first time yesterday. It's been too cold pretty much for the last two weeks or so. Yeah, raining. Yesterday hit 90, so we went over to the pool there.

Starting point is 00:02:09 Got a nice, nice base burn. So I should be tan to us in summer. Nice, nice. Yeah, that's the one thing I miss. We had a pool growing up when we lived in California and then in St. Louis. And now, you know, like you said, when it hits these days, when 90 and it's human, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I just want to jump to a pool. I really miss it.

Starting point is 00:02:29 Well, you know what else I miss, Thomas? I miss the Cardinals when he's baseball games. That's something I miss. I saw your tweet earlier, like, not having as much fun as I was having a couple of weeks ago. I think we're all on board with you there. Yeah, the St. Louis Cardinals, they lost another game on Thursday night, got blanked by the Brewers by a score of six to nothing, nearly no hit. Didn't get a hit until the seventh inning.

Starting point is 00:02:53 Rookie pitcher Jacob Mizorowski, who's actually from Missouri, from Blue Springs, Missouri went to the same college that I went to for like two seconds, but I was there for a little bit. Crowder Community College in the large metropolitan known as Neosho, Missouri. Yeah, it's as little as it sounds, but was making his big league debut for the for the Brewers on Thursday night. And he was awesome. Like he got to give credit when credit is due, 102 miles per hour on the gun. And he was exactly as advertised. A lot of heat, a lot of strikeouts, a little wild.

Starting point is 00:03:28 So he ends up going five innings, no hits, five Ks, four walks. Ends up leaving the game under some strange circumstances. The official ruling was that he left with cramps in his cap and in his quad. But while he was out there, Thomas, he was awfully impressive, wasn't he? Yeah, I mean, you look at those first three pitches, all 100 plus right off the bat. He came out and fire. And it was, as a Cardinals fan, it's stunk to see it. But then as a baseball fan, it's pretty cool to see it.

Starting point is 00:03:55 I mean, he's six, seven, right? Isn't that it all he is? Just throwing heat. all game. It was pretty neat to watch. Just a string being out there too. Six-seven, 190 is what he's listed. We all know these guys lie about their weight with. So I'm 185. What? Yeah, I don't think he's 190 pounds, but he looked the part of a top pitching prospect for the brewers. And that's all we need is Milwaukee to find another pitcher to be awesome against us in the NL Central. So a lot of credit to him for doing what he did into the Brewers Bullpen for coming in after he had to leave the game with those cramps.

Starting point is 00:04:34 On the other side of things, though, Sunny Gray, man, had been so good, so good over the last couple of starts for him. Not good in this one. Four and a third inning, six runs on eight hits, one home run from Jackson Shurio. It was looking good. It wasn't like this all happened like every inning he was in trouble or anything. He was actually looking pretty darn good until that fifth inning when things fell apart. What were your thoughts on what you saw from Sunny Gray in the game on Thursday? It really did all fall apart when we had planned this podcast earlier today.

Starting point is 00:05:08 I was thinking, man, we've got five Sunny Gray starts in a row that are quality starts. He's looking good. And then all of a sudden he gets rocked in the fifth. He talks post game with some of the beatwriters about how he didn't quite feel on the entire game. and then all came clubbing down in the fifth for him. He didn't look like he was struggling, so there must have been something that he saw or felt that we didn't, not an injury or anything,

Starting point is 00:05:31 just felt off as what he kept on saying. And then all of a sudden, the fifth inning happens and it all blows up on him. Yeah, we're starting to hear these little things with, you know, how Leveritor the other night, he was like, I'm not hurt. He's like, I just, my mechanics were a little off. I just felt out of sync and I just couldn't find the comfort zone again.

Starting point is 00:05:49 And that kind of sounds familiar to what might have happened with Sunny Great tonight, not that his Velo dropped or anything like Libertors did. But, you know, it just things happen quickly. I still remember a game that I pitched. One of the greatest games I ever pitched in college was first inning. I walked the bases loaded, hit the fourth guy, and the run scores, and then throw a no-hitter with like nine strikeouts the rest of the way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:16 And finish the game. Like, it's weird. There's no explanation to it, but sometimes things just go bad. Sometimes things go good, but not a good one for sunny grade tonight, which is a letdown because when you're in a spot where the cardals are right now, they're in a bit of a rut, clearly, and you turn to that number one pitcher and you're like, this is your the stopper, right? And that would they call them the stopper? And when you're a stopper, can't stop anything either.

Starting point is 00:06:44 Now you're really looking at the mirror like, dude, we might be in trouble right now. Yeah, but his last four starts when we have been struggling in these last couple weeks, he was a stopper, which is what your ace of your staff should be. It's just, I mean, I don't know if the four game losing streak got his head or, you know, he just felt the pressure. But it crumbled for him pretty quickly there. He didn't look happy after the game either. Yeah, it's unfortunate, too, because what the issue had been for the Cardinals, you know, has been the pitching side of things. They'd be giving up too many runs. offense was doing fine, but then they get shut out in this one too.

Starting point is 00:07:18 So everything, everything was a meltdown in this one. It just did not work. It was a bad game. And these guys are going to tell you, they're like, well, you can't dwell on it. You can't live in the past. You just got to move on to the next game. But clearly the Cardinals as an organization are, you know, seeing where this team is heading.

Starting point is 00:07:36 They're seeing the trajectory right now. And they don't want it to get any further down than where it is. So they decided they were going to make some moves prior to the game. game on Thursday. And one of the moves, actually, you got to see it in the game tonight. And it paid off in this game. We're going to discuss those and more coming up next with Thomas Govay from Redburn, Rance.com. Great to have them back. We'll talk more about this coming up on Locked on Cardinals. Whether you're gearing up for back-to-back meeting, shuttling kids back and forth to activities, or, you know, tackling an endless to-do list, you know, the the honey-do list as

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Starting point is 00:09:39 Feedback is always welcome and encouraged. Having been getting a whole lot of positive feedback recently, Thomas, because things are not going well for the Cardinals. You actually did a write-up today on Redbirdrance.com. And in case you guys missed it, you went over the moves that the Cardinals were able to make prior to Thursdays game in Milwaukee. If you would, for those who missed it, can you inform the folks on what went down with the Cardinals roster?

Starting point is 00:10:04 Yes. This was not necessarily a roster decision, but Jordan Walker is starting a rehab assignment today. As far as the roster goes, Michael Siani was brought back up, and Ryan Valade was designated for assignment, which I think we have all been waiting for the last two weeks. You didn't go out and get a Ryan Valade jersey. Are you kidding me? I searched up and down for his rookie card too, but I couldn't find it.

Starting point is 00:10:31 And then we sent Chris Roycroft down because Blade was designated for assignment. A roster spot opened up and the much awaited arrival of Andre Grenio was occurred today as well. He was promoted to the majors. Yeah, there's been a lot of people pushing for him. I picked up on them about two months ago, but there were good people who have been, I mean, offseason. We had guys talking about his strikeout numbers and his stuff. So it's good that he got to call up. His slider's a good one.

Starting point is 00:10:57 It has been a couple years now. Yeah, Andre Greenio's a guy that I've been eager to see pitch. Like, it's been a couple years now, really. Like, even when he was doing some things at AA, you just kind of kept an eye on things. Because when you see guys that are just closers all the time, it's not like he would, you know, take on different roles. He was constantly a closer at every level that he was at. And he kept finding six.

Starting point is 00:11:23 you know, it wasn't like you were seeing him get knocked around with, you know, because sometimes you'll see a closer at triple A or double A and they're like, yeah, he's got like 16 saves, but his ERA is like six point, whatever. Like, and it wasn't like that. Like he genuinely had some pretty good success at those levels. And, you know, with this team, they continue to do that carousel with that one spot in the bullpen looking for that one right-handed guy, you know, after Ryan Fernandez flamed out. I honestly, I haven't even looked up stats for Fernandez. I don't even know what he's. doing that down. One of our guys on Redbird Ranch just wrote about it. I'd have to look back up, but I think he's doing better than I thought. Well, that's good. You know, it's nice to see him finally turn around. Looking at a 2025 MLB, MILB, MILB, 5.71, 3 and 1

Starting point is 00:12:13 and 15 games with the ERA's close to 6, 29 strikeouts and 17 and a 3rd. So maybe there's some progress there. But since he went away, there's been like, oh, who's that other right-handed guy going to be. That's what they've been looking for. You've seen, you know, Chris Roycroft. You've seen Riley O'Brien. You've seen Matt Sonson, and it just keeps cycling and cycling. Gordon, Percefo, Roder Munoz. Yeah, you know, they keep trying to find

Starting point is 00:12:41 these guys that can hold this spot down. Does anybody want this job? Because it's open. We want to give it to you. All you got to do is perform, and they just have not been able to find that certain somebody to take over that particular role and not cost them ball games. You know, every once in a while, one of these guys will have like a pretty good ending. And you're like, okay. And then it all falls apart, you know. And see Chris Roycroft, you know, I keep, I look at him and I see why the Cardinals want to stick with them and develop them because, you know, he's a big guy, comes with a weird

Starting point is 00:13:14 arm angle, that sinker. It can be really good at sometimes. But so far this year, it just hasn't worked, man. No, and his sinker plays up in the minors really well. I think every time he goes down, we see a lot of stuff about his sinker playing up and how he's got it back, his arm slots there, everything's there. But then he comes up to the majors that just doesn't translate. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:35 And Andre Gernio is a guy that, like I said, he had success and he got into this ball game on Thursday night after Sunny Gray was taken out and ends up throwing two and two-thirds of shutout ball this evening. What were your thoughts on what you saw from Grinio in his Major League debut? I loved it. Yeah, he got up to 97 on a couple of his pitches, 96-97. He didn't get the strikeouts that we've all been looking for and yearning for. But the jump from AAA to the majors is pretty dramatic.

Starting point is 00:14:05 So I'm not overly surprised he didn't strike anybody out. To hold the game where it was for two and two-thirds innings as a rookie against the Brewers on the road. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, and with that place rocking with, well, what was going on with their starter. Yeah, six to nothing lead, you know, the, there's none of the easiest environment to jump into a game and make your major league debut, but it comes out of it unscath, gives up a couple of hits.

Starting point is 00:14:30 John Keene gave up a couple of hits, but didn't give up any run. So, you know, hopefully Grinio is the answer. I don't know if that's going to be the case, but, you know, why not give them a shot? What do they got to lose? Because everybody else they've tried in this spot has flamed out. It hasn't worked and they're still searching. What were your thoughts on the Siani for Valade? I know he was your favorite player, Valade, but what are your thoughts on them bringing back

Starting point is 00:14:58 Michael Ciani to take on a role where it's completely opposite of what Ryan Valade is, where, you know, Siani's the left-handed, quicker, defensive guy, Valade, not the great defender. It was supposed to be a better stick from the right side. Make it make sense for me. Why was that the move? I honestly, I don't know. I think they're just going outfield for... I think they're just going outfield for outfield at that point.

Starting point is 00:15:27 Personally, I would have preferred a right-handed hitter off the bench. Luke and Baker, I know it stinks to just have him ride the pine for six days out of the week, five days out of the week, but I think you would have been nice to have up there just for some power off the bench. Thomas Sejacy, I think, could do it, but I believe the organization still hung up on the development more than the competition right now. I think if they're searching for competition, it would have been to Jaycey, but I think they also want him to see regular reps.

Starting point is 00:15:55 So then you're leaning more into the development side of the plan this year. I would be surprised if Siani goes back down once Jordan Walker is healthy again, come Chicago I Sox Series. Yeah. And I know I got some comments that were like, is this them giving up on Victor Scott, you know, because of his slump?

Starting point is 00:16:12 And that's absolutely not the case. But it's a guy that could jump in. in play center field when Victor needs a day off, you know, maybe that's, yeah. Yeah, maybe he's feeling a little worn out right now. It looks like a lot of these guys for some, for whatever reason, it's all seems to like kind of be hitting them all at once, you know, where they're just, maybe there's a little fatigue going on there, especially for the younger guys who aren't used to playing as many games in a row.

Starting point is 00:16:36 Remember they were catching so much hell last year for giving Mason win days off? And like everybody was just so angry about it. And they kept saying it's because, you know, we're the long game. here is that we want him to not be worn out by the time that August and September roll around and not have to go through some of these types of slumps where, you know, where they're just exhausted. And that might be part of the reason why things are happening the way they are for some of these younger players. But, you know, that could just be an excuse to. I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to find reasons. I'm just trying to find reasons here. We've got some questions for you, Thomas, all right?

Starting point is 00:17:14 and I'm not going to lie. Some of these questions have been thrown at me, but I want to hear your answers on it. I know what I've been saying for the last few weeks without you on board with me. So I want to hear from Thomas Govain. So we're going to pick the brain of Govain. Yes, I came up with that.

Starting point is 00:17:33 I can rhyme. So we're going to do just that coming up next year on Locked on Cardinals. Don't move. The NBA finals are in full swing and every night delivers highlight worthy performances, major momentum shifts, and can't miss moments, whether it's game winning shot or a breakout player.

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Starting point is 00:19:35 You can find MLB game night on Locked on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. The great Thomas Gauvin from Redwood Rance.com back in the saddle again, joining us here. Things are really bad right now, Thomas. You know, will they stay? that way? Probably not, but will things turn around so much that the boys will play like they did last month in the month of May when they were one of the best teams in baseball? It's debatable. So I ask you, we picked the brain of Govain. Which Cardinals team do you think is the real team? Is it the guys we're seeing here in June? And we saw in April for a bit, or are they more like the

Starting point is 00:20:14 people that we saw playing ball in the month of May? I'm going to dodge this question entirely and pick a little bit of both. I think the hitters are more of the team that we saw in May. I think the offense will pick it back up. It's just a little bit of a dry spell, but I think the pitching staff is who we saw in April and then now June where they're going to give up some big runs, some big earnings, some lot of hits, but then the offense might come back and make a little bit more interesting, which we did see a couple of games against the Blue Jays. They came back late in the games. So I think it's going to be a little bit of a mixture of both. I don't mean to dodge the question entirely.

Starting point is 00:20:49 I hope it's more of the May, but I think it's going to be a combination of the two. Yeah, and that was the thing with the Blue Jay series was they would fall behind and then they would play catch up. And they make the first two games, one run games when they really shouldn't have been. Like they felt like those games were done already and they made a game out of them. And then to jump out and get a lead in that game three and to give it out and just like vanish. You know, they haven't scored since the Poso home run, you know, getting shut out in Milwaukee.

Starting point is 00:21:18 And then after his home run, there's been little to nothing for this offense so far. You saw Contreras in the game on Thursday, try to make something happen just to try to get something going, which I applaud him for it. Didn't work. His brother gunned him out. But it's still, they're trying to get something going. So I can understand why he would be a little more aggressive there. So, you know, I feel the same way. This pitching staff, it didn't change.

Starting point is 00:21:43 I don't know what they were doing execution-wise that was making it more difficult to get hits off of them. But it appears that things are starting to even out a bit now. And you're starting to see those balls that were landing in Cardinals defensive gloves. They're now finding grass. And you're starting to see these ERAs start to skyrocket a little bit. Ryan Helsley. Blown three saves in a row, his last three saves opportunities. one against the Dodgers.

Starting point is 00:22:12 We'll give him a gimme on that because that weird Shohei Otani base hit off the base was just stupid. And you can't predict that. It's not his fault. But do you feel at this point, are you trading him no matter what at the trade deadline? Or are you still considering an extension for Ryan Helson? Ooh. I'd lead more towards trade than extension right now. I don't.

Starting point is 00:22:37 Keeping closers for any length. a time more than one season is probably a bad idea. I think trade in it and the off season was the best bet, but we can't go backwards. I'm leaning more towards a deadline deal more than an extension at this point, mainly due to his performance. I'd love to have, we haven't had a guy since Yadi, who's just been a cardinal forever. And Halsley right now is that guy, if he can pick it back up this next month, if he can finish the season strong, I'd be fine with extension talks then. But right now, I'm leaning more towards trade. Yeah, selfishly. I want him to be better so we can trade him and get better stuff.

Starting point is 00:23:15 You know, who is that guy that's going to be to closer afterwards? I don't know. Is it Andre Greenio? Is that somebody we talk about? I don't know if there's a guy in the system that is ready to. Phil Mayton right now. Yeah, you know, but maybe there's somebody else that they can make a deal for. You know, I don't know, but I'm not going to concern myself with that yet.

Starting point is 00:23:34 I'm more worried about the now. And, you know, it's just the fastball's getting hammered. They're hitting like 430 off of them or something ridiculous off his fastball. Sliders been insane, but you can't just throw sliders all the time. They'll just lay off of it. So he's in a bit of a tough spot. He's going to have to come up with something to get these guys go fishing after that slider. They're just never going to swing at it.

Starting point is 00:23:57 And they're just going to key in on that fastball, which, you know, a couple of years ago, 100, 101 used to be a huge deal. Now more people are doing it. And it's not quite special as it used to be. Don't get me wrong. It's still very good. Triple digits is sick. But at the same time, when they're as straight as his pitches, these guys are going to see it and catch up to it eventually.

Starting point is 00:24:19 So how about this one? There's another GM question for you. If you're still within, say, three games of the wild card or the division, are you hanging on to assets to see if they can have success in the postseason? Or are you going to do something like Detroit did last year where they're like, well, we're not totally sure if this is going to work. Traded, you know, Jack Flaherty away, still went to the playoffs and showed, you know,

Starting point is 00:24:45 how good they could be. Would you rather go that route where you just want to get something for these guys like Fetty, for Halsley, any of these guys that are going to be free agents after the year? Yeah, the Detroit things with an anomaly. I don't think we can count on that being a certainty for us. If we're three games out, division or wildcard, both, whatever it is, I think I'd lean more towards selling. The tough part is our biggest.

Starting point is 00:25:08 trade ship is probably Sunny Gray and he has that no trade clause attached to him. Yeah. Like if we're that far behind, I don't think Ryan Helsley gets back on track the way we need him to. I don't think our starters like Eric Fetty, who could be traded, continues to or gets back to pitching well. So the guys who we would trade, they may not have much, much value if we're still that far behind.

Starting point is 00:25:29 And the guy with the most value, Sonny Gray may not accept the trade. I'd still try and trade whoever we have for whatever we can get. I mean, you look back at 2023, but Jordan Montgomery, he, He was very good for us that year. So his value is there. But I think we can do a bit of a reset like that and then get the farm system stock back up. You look at the guys we got out of that deal alone for Montgomery with Tocoa Roby and Thomas Jacey. I mean, it could be up here next year contributing big time.

Starting point is 00:25:56 So I'd be more towards selling if we're out of it and then hoping that we at least have a fun team for the rest of the year, potentially even one that can sneak into the playoffs. Yeah. because that's the thing too is like I feel like since they've been competitive this year that now people are like well we can go and do this and I'm like but we're still trying to plan for the future a little bit it's been fun but it's really a world series team

Starting point is 00:26:21 when you're going to have to go through teams like the Dodgers the Phillies the Mets are you hey we beat the Dodgers we have the series the season series and the Phillies I know but I'm just saying really is that yeah really what's going to happen in the in the playoffs. It's hard to swallow that pill. But yeah, I'm starting to salivate a little bit over the possibilities of watching, you know, McGreevy and Matthews and Toccoa Robe at some point coming up onto the Major League roster. Maybe another one of those outside of McGreevy comes up

Starting point is 00:26:55 this year. Perhaps Matthews is that guy. I think Roby probably stays at AAA, but you never know. You never know the way things turn later on in the year. Final stuff here. You mentioned Jordan Walker. I just want to point out this stat. The Cardinals are four and eight since Jordan Walker went down. Just saying, 0 for two with a walk before the games got suspended in Memphis. I had a strikeout as well before that happened. I know that has nothing to do with the pitching, which, you know, if you're looking at these games, it's the pitching that stands out as the issue right now. But there is a thing called team chemistry. And when things get altered a little bit, bad stuff happens. And perhaps they miss him a little bit. Your thoughts on Jordan Walker going down having an effect on this team? He was definitely getting hot right before he went down. So the performance factor could be a thing there.

Starting point is 00:27:46 Players are also a little bit out of position. We don't get Brendan Donovan at second base anymore as often. So you've got him out in the left field. I don't know if that's necessarily B factor. I'd say pitching primarily, but I'd love me some Jordan Walker back. Get out, Burroughs, off the grass. Yeah, yeah. You know, Alec hitting is good, running around the outfield, not the strongest thing for him.

Starting point is 00:28:10 But better than Ryan Valade. So I will take the eye. So am I probably. Yeah, Quinn Matthews tonight as well in that game. Three innings, two runs, two hits, five strikeouts. He did have four walks, which is the most he's had since he's come back from the injured list. But, again, it got suspended because of rain. So I don't know how the weather was affecting him or anything like that or how the ball was.

Starting point is 00:28:35 but that's the first, like, kind of hiccup for him since he came off the IEL, but still five strikeouts, three innings. Got to be pretty impressed with that. So what are some things you're working on for RedbirdRance.com? What's in the future of Thomas? Well, I had one go up today. I interviewed a guy down at Palm Beach, Danielle Ortiz. Great guy.

Starting point is 00:28:56 I'd recommend you read the piece, get to know a little bit more. He's hit home runs back-to-back nights. Two days ago and then last night. So go ahead and read that one on Redbird Rance. and then I did a deep dive on what's wrong with Lars Nupar this year. Oh, you figure anything out because we need to figure this out. My guy is a lot of a way. Stop swinging is the answer.

Starting point is 00:29:17 One, this is not article, but JJ Weatherholt did hit a walk-off single tonight for Springfield. Yeah. You like to hear that. See, the future's bright, Cardinals fans. Yeah. Everybody relax. Everybody relax. Pitching matchup for tomorrow, I believe it's fantastic.

Starting point is 00:29:34 in Peralta. So things are not going to be any easier for the Cardinals. For aorta. Very, very good pitcher. So strap in, boys. It might be a difficult one on Friday as well. But you never know. It's baseball.

Starting point is 00:29:48 Anything can happen. Thomas, thank you, as always, for jumping in and hanging out with us. And thank you guys for making a lockdown carnels your first list in every day. If you haven't already, please give us a follow on X at L.O. underscore Cardinals at a JD Sports Radio, TikTok, and Instagram at Lockdown Cardinals. be sure to give Thomas a follow at Thomas Govain on X as well. Read his work at Redbird Rance.com.

Starting point is 00:30:09 And please like and subscribe on YouTube and help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. And we'll see you next time on Lato Gardens.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - PANIC: St. Louis Cardinals' LOSING STREAK Continues

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