Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Ryan Helsley's Future Hangs In the BALANCE as Cardinals Consider Trades Involving Their Bullpen

Starting point is 00:00:00 One veteran says he's staying put in St. Louis, while another one is being shopped heavily. We've got the latest buzz from around the league concerning the Cardinals and the upcoming MLB trade deadline. You are Locked-on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcasts network. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Carlis fans. I'm J.D. Hafford, and I'm your host for Locktown Cardinals, part of the Locktown Podcast Network covering your team every day. You can follow me on X at JD Sports Radio. You can also follow a podcast on X at L1 underscore Cardinals. We're on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, all at Lockedong Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:00:45 Come find us. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use code locked on MLB for $20 off your first purchase. On today's show, we're going to take a look at last night's. boring loss to Sandy Alcantra and the Marlins. Another star for Sunny Gray.

Starting point is 00:01:10 We've got your Cardinal Confessionals. A lot of people chiming in on what they think the Cardinals should or shouldn't do at the trade deadline. And so far the deadline hasn't been all that exciting. There hasn't been any major moves yet. We're recording this on Wednesday afternoon just after 1 o'clock St. Louis time. and we haven't seen any of the big names get moved around just yet. There's been rumors about guys being moved, but so far nothing really with the Cardinals because they're kind of waiting for the market to develop.

Starting point is 00:01:45 I mean, it's not shocking that things are going as slow as they are because you wait for the big pieces to go and then everything trickles down after that. The Cardinals are going to be involved in things for sure. They've got multiple bullpen pieces that make a ton of sense. for a lot of different teams looking to boost their depth. And, you know, the usual suspects by now, it's Ryan Housley, a setup man, Phil Maton, swing man, Stephen Matts. Those are the three big ones that I think you'll, you'll see on the move.

Starting point is 00:02:14 There's also been rumors that Joe Romero could also be available, although he's still got a year of control remaining. So the Cardinals might listen, which they should. Obviously, you should listen to anybody who calls, you know. They could come up with some wild idea that they should make this a deal that's just crazy. and you can't really say no to it, but the Cardinals aren't under any pressure to move him. But again, never hurts to listen.

Starting point is 00:02:38 The Crown jewel in all of this, though, is Ryan Housley, who despite having a down year for his standards is the reigning NL reliever of the year. He still throws triple digits. He's still got 21 saves and a track record for getting the job done. Everyone wants a bullpen arms when it comes to the playoffs. Starting pitching is a luxury, but you've seen over the years how teams, how they manage their bullpen in the playoffs, how that can make or break things for them when it comes down to crunch time.

Starting point is 00:03:09 The more arms, the better, right? That's what you want. The shorter you can make the game, the better it is for you, especially in the playoffs. And it's why a team like the Padres, who the Cardinals just saw could be very dangerous in the playoffs, in my opinion. Right now they've got three all-stars in their pin between Robert Suarez, Jason Adam, and Adrian Morone. There are sources that say that the Padres might actually shop Suarez, along with starter Dylan

Starting point is 00:03:33 cease to upgrade other areas because cease, as we know, is going to be a free agent and hasn't been all that good this year either. And then you've got Suarez, who's been pretty dark good. He leads the league and saves. And he's got an opt-out at the end of the year. So he can walk if he wants to at the end of the season. The Padres are one of the teams that have their. mentioned as interested in Jojo Romero, according to Katie Wu at the athletic.

Starting point is 00:04:01 So that's something to keep an eye on. And now that Emmanuel Claisse is untradable in Cleveland due to the suspension, Johan Duran from Minnesota becomes, at least in my eyes, a target that is probably above Halsley. So if something were to go down with him, that would set the market for the high leverage arms and closers, and perhaps we'd see something quicker happened with Ryan Housley. I don't think he's the number one on a lot of people's list, but you just never know. But they keep saying that the market for Duran, it's moving.

Starting point is 00:04:39 It's moving. The Dodgers are among the teams engaged on him, according to reports. There's a few guys from the twins that a lot of people would like to have on their team. So we'll keep an eye on that stuff for sure. Now, Katie did point out that in the past, for those of you who are in a hurry to see something done by the car, was like, why are they doing anything? Well, John Moselle has never been one of those GMs who jump the gun and set the market. He's somebody that stays, I know, funny word, patient. We know that's his favorite word.

Starting point is 00:05:13 But he is normally that guy and usually waits until the day of the deadline before he makes any decisions. And sometimes those decisions, right down to the wire. like the final bell before the deadline hits. You know, the admin deal for Feddy and Fam last year was the day of Flaherty was traded right before the deadline passed. The deal for Jordan Montgomery, which involved Harrison Bader. Remember, that was like, bang, very last second of the deadline. Same thing for the deal when they brought John Lester over from the national.

Starting point is 00:05:45 So don't be shocked at everything involving the Cardinals ends up going down on Thursday and not Wednesday, but anything is possible. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but it just appears that slow playing it is kind of the way Moe does everything. So it wouldn't shock me unless it's like a smaller deal. But I would imagine something like Helsley would be on Thursday. Now, as far as the teams that are being mentioned for Halesley, there's a lot.

Starting point is 00:06:15 Basically anyone who's got World Series aspirations, Phillies, Dodgers, Mets, Blue Jays, Tigers. One trade idea that was floated on MLB.com involved both Helsley and Mayton going to Seattle, which, you know, if you can package them to get an even bigger package in return, I don't care. Like, I like it when more is coming my way. And in this particular trade, it was Helsley and Maiton to the Mariners. Cardinals would get Ryan Sloan, Mariners number five prospect, number 59 overall. He's a right-handed pitcher.

Starting point is 00:06:50 Outfielder, Yor Giorger-Bautista, their number 11 prospect, and another pitcher in Hunter Cranton, who is the Mariners number 17 prospect. I'm not opposed to that. And I know Cardinals fans are going to be like, no, more. We should get more for these guys. The market is what the market is. That's why if somebody like Duran goes or somebody like Suarez goes, it'll have a trickle-down effect as to what Ryan Housley's worth is.

Starting point is 00:07:15 So I don't think that deal sounds that bad at all. But all of them, of them, these teams that we're talking about have a legit shot at winning the whole thing and more times than not. The Cardinals, if you've noticed in the past, when they ship somebody away, that person usually shines in the postseason for those teams. Randy Rosarena, Adoles Garcia, Jordan Montgomery, Tommy Edmund. I know it's not a scientific fact that it's always going to happen that way, but it's something we're thinking about if you're planning on making a deal with the St. Louis Cardinals that these guys usually pan out and do pretty well for those teams in the postseason. And then when you compare, okay, what is Ryan Helsley compared to guys like Duran and Suarez and David Bednar from Pittsburgh and Pete Fairbanks from the Tampa Bay Rays?

Starting point is 00:08:05 Not the number one guy, but he's certainly not the lowest name on the totem pole. And that's good news for the Cardinals who need to use this deadline to replenish those empty spots in their organization and at the major league level. Now, I'm not expecting them to get any current major league talent in return for any of these guys. But hopefully it is guys that are closer to making an impact on a big league club than say a bunch of 18, 19, 20 year old A ball, double A guys that might have high ceilings, but you're not sure when or if they're ever going to make it to the major league.

Starting point is 00:08:44 So that is the hope. One guy who is not going anywhere, apparently, is Wilson Contreras. Never thought he was. But it was reported by Katie Wu that he did meet with John Moseilock and reiterated his desire to remain with the Cardinals. She also pointed out that Sunny Gray and Miles Michaelis aren't likely going anywhere. But the book is still kind of out there for Nolan Aronado. The teams who don't get a E. E. E. E. Haneo Suarez, who's the number one third base bat available, they might pivot.

Starting point is 00:09:14 And depending on how desperate they are, they might call the Cardinals and ask about Aronado. Same issues are still there as they were in the off season. First off, the decline in his offensive numbers, but the contract, the no trade clause, it makes trading him very, very difficult. Even if he does get moved, it's going to be disappointing, I think,

Starting point is 00:09:36 because I wouldn't expect a massive return because of that contract. It would really come down to the money, the Cardinals would have to eat just like it was in the offseason. And that's why when the deal with the Houston Astros fell through and got vetoed, I was like, no. And it's not because I don't like Nolan Arnado. That's not the reason why.

Starting point is 00:09:57 It's because you found a taker. You found somebody that was willing to take him and at least a portion of that contract. You were going to get something in return. You would have to eat some money. But then it was over. now it continues and when will this end we don't know because his value still a great third basement but his value continues to fall and fall and it's the cardals are in a bad spot with nolan aranato because he hasn't shown that he's going to ever turn things around so why would

Starting point is 00:10:32 we believe that he would um you still love the guy you think he's a good player and you enjoy him but that contract is ugly over the next two years. And as far as Bernie Donovan goes, I haven't seen much chatter about that at all going on between anybody, which makes me think the Cardinals are probably asking for the moon if people have called about him, which they should. And then he's probably not going to go anywhere either. He's not a guy that I think the Cardinals ever were actively trying to move.

Starting point is 00:11:03 But, you know, if somebody wanted to come in and blow you away with some deal, you have to listen. That's part of your job. But I haven't seen much noise about that going on at all. We got to do some Cardinal Confessionals next and get your feedback on what's going on with the trade deadline. And what's just going on with Cardinals in general? So we'll get into all of that coming up next on Locked on Cardinals. We've all been there logging on early and just, you know, waiting forever for the concert tickets to go on sale to go see whatever artist or whatever band that you're a big fan of. And then what happens? You lose your spot.

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Starting point is 00:12:51 Last minute, tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. Thanks again for making a lot of time. Carlos, your first listen to every day. Leave your comments on YouTube as well as on X or TikTok anytime you want. Your feedback always welcome and encouraged. Cardinal Confessionals time. This is where I take the questions and comments from listeners. And I do it without blasting their name and stuff out there

Starting point is 00:13:15 because that's not what it's about. It's about giving you a chance to speak with some anonymity and let your thoughts be known, whether it's good or bad, without any criticism where people are going to come after you and start yelling at you about it. So let's start with this one. Don't trade Ryan Halsley. He is one of the best closures in the game.

Starting point is 00:13:35 He wants to be a Cardo for Life. We'll take a friendly discount to be a card. Mo, DeWitt, in the front office are the reason the birds are in this position. Mo and DeWitt, yes, the reason the birds are in this possession, because they're the ones who set payroll. They're the ones who make the decisions on player personnel, and they are absolutely to blame for where the Cardinals are in the major leagues right now, which is a meddling 500 team. In my opinion, though, the team needs more than a good closer to compete for a championship. And that's the goal, right? And it's not that you want to move Ryan Helsley because he's some bad guy or something or that he's just so bad at his job that you don't want him around anymore.

Starting point is 00:14:22 It's because the demand for them is high right now. That's why you move them. The Cardinals are not currently in the championship window or even a playoff window, if I'm being dead honest with you. What are they, four and a half back in the wild card right now? They're selling. They're not going anywhere this year. The one good thing that came out yesterday that I brought up in the show was that Ryan Helsley said that even if he was traded, he would be more than open to resigning with the team this off season when he does become a free agent. Now, I don't know if he's going to give the Cardinals a discounted deal.

Starting point is 00:14:57 I've never seen anything like that where he said that out loud. But it shows you how much he does enjoy being a Cardinal, which is great. It's all he knows. He's been with this organization, his entire career. He's the longest tenured Cardinal right now. He's obviously comfortable with the team and the organization. I just don't know what it will take to sign him. You know, last year when we thought, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:20 got coming off that big year that he had, that he'd be demanding, you know, Josh Hader type of money. But with his numbers declining from 2024, it probably won't be anything near that. And the fact that the team has no clear replacement doesn't hurt his cause that if he wants to come back, the Cardinals probably would have mutual interest and bringing it back.

Starting point is 00:15:41 I just don't know how much it's going to cost. Cardinals aren't in the business of spending a lot of money at this moment. There's been talked that the payroll will, if it's not right around the same part as it was this year, or the same amount, I should say not part, but that it might even drop some next year with some of these guys' contracts coming off the books. And they may not reinvest in anybody else. They might just keep pumping it into the, you know, the, the player development side of things and just hope that these young guys are the, are the answer and not go spend money, especially with the labor issues coming up in

Starting point is 00:16:18 2027. So I just, it's bad business in my opinion to hang on to a guy who could walk away for nothing instead of trading him and getting some sort of assets in return. This new bar to double a pitcher for Sandy Alcantara, take the chance of a rehabilitated top of the order pitcher. if necessary. Add Gorman. Okay. If the Marlins do trade Sandy Alcantra, it is going to be for a hell of a lot more than the injury prone Lars Neupbar, who is injured right now and hitting 227 plus a double A player, even if you add Nolan Gorman doesn't help much because guess what? He's hurt too. So who's making that deal? The Marlins aren't doing that. If that's what your offer was, they'd be like, okay, hang up.

Starting point is 00:17:12 That's a long shot. That's a long shot. Yes, the Cardinals need somebody like a Sandy Alcantra to be their guy moving forward at some point. But the Marlins are going to give him you that for that in return. Next question. Why do you keep beating the disrespect drum, JD? We need to keep these good players.

Starting point is 00:17:35 It's the only way to be better at building a stronger team than our opponents. and we are still in the playoff hunt for 2025, don't forget, are we? Trade players in the middle who are not in future plans, get players from other teams who fit better in our plans, but never trade good players that you already have. Negativity and disrespect is how we fall into the seller of our division, most of it coming from our own team's front office, Mo. The media like you share in this because players and their families

Starting point is 00:18:01 read what you write and say and morale suppers. Talk about deals after they are made not before, respect their players and their families. Well, I certainly don't do this job to disrespect anybody. I don't feel like I'm disrespecting the player or families by discussing their trade values. I mean, this is what people are talking about in the game of baseball right now with the trade deadline here. You know, that's just part of the business side of things. Nothing disrespectful.

Starting point is 00:18:29 And I'll admit, we do get caught up in talking about these guys like they're just ponds, right? just pieces on a chessboard. And sometimes you do have to think about them that way because you got to take the the personnel side of it out. Because then it would be difficult. Then you would never trade guys that you like that you get along with and stuff. You would never make those kind of moves. And sometimes those moves have to be made just because of the business aspect of it all.

Starting point is 00:18:57 And maybe we don't talk about how difficult times like these are for the guys and their families. you know, when you hear your name constantly involved in trade deals and how that's going to change your life and the life of your family and your kids and where you live. And if you've ever moved anywhere, you know how difficult it is to get accustomed to things. It is tough. But when it comes to keeping good players instead of trading them, you have to be aware of the business side of Major League Baseball. The Cardinals aren't looking to take on more money, especially with the labor issues again, coming up in 2020. which I keep pointing to because the cardals aren't trying to sign big long contracts and then have this labor thing go down in 2027 where there might be a lockout. Most people think there will be.

Starting point is 00:19:42 And then they're on the hook for all of this money when things could change in 2027. Like that's one of the reasons why you're seeing them do the things they do. Not the only reason, but it's one of the reasons, I think. They're trying to shed payroll. They want to develop young guys instead of buying expensive free agents and being on the hook for their money. And that's how they're going about opening up that next playoff or championship window. And that takes time. They just started doing it.

Starting point is 00:20:11 They just started doing it. And I do personally believe in what they are doing because handing out 10-year, $300 million contracts to guys, I think is crazy, especially when they're giving them to guys who are in their late 20s. And I think that's nuts. I like the things that like the Brewers are doing. where they handed out a 10-year deal to a 20-year-old in Jackson-Churio. That makes sense to me.

Starting point is 00:20:38 If you believe in a guy and you want to keep them around, I agree with that. But paying a 28, 29-year-old guy 10 million or 10 years at 300 million or more, I think is bonkers. So I believe in what they're doing. They're just, they're not a playoff team right now. So there's no point in doing it like that. You've got to start from inside and rebuild.

Starting point is 00:20:59 That's the plan. And you can have a different opinion on, you think this team is this year, but we've seen, you know, what we've seen in July. And basically every month except May says they're not a playoff consider. So not getting assets in return for guys who, again, who could walk at the end of the year. And then you get nothing at all. Just wouldn't be good business. Not personal.

Starting point is 00:21:20 Just business. The Godfather. All right. Let's talk about last night's loss. Another game from Sunny Gray, which is happening far too often. recently. We'll get into it next coming up on lockdown cardinals. Time to fuel up and turn it up with five-hour energy transfusion. It brings the bold grape, ginger, and lime flavor of your favorite golf drink, minus the

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Starting point is 00:23:19 Wednesdays along with John Frisch from Lockdown Angels who are apparently buyers. All of a sudden, the Angels are making deals and bringing people in. But it's every game, every night all season long get local analysis on a national scale. Find MLB game night on Locked on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. And I'm trying to keep up with anything that might be breaking for the Cardinals while we're doing this. So far, again, still not seeing much discussions between the Guardians of people about Shane Bieber, Stephen Kwan are popping up. It's kind of funny to see that the Cincinnati Reds, guys in our own division,

Starting point is 00:23:58 who only a couple games separate them and the Cardinals, but they are interested in buying while the Cardinals are like, we're getting the hell out of this thing, man. We are selling, selling, selling. So still nothing new, though, as we do this. All right. Let's talk about last night. Sunny Gray, July has not been kind to Sunny Gray. The numbers are not good, although I don't think he pitched all that bad last night.

Starting point is 00:24:23 It was still another loss for him in the team as they fall to the Marlins 5 to nothing. 11th time they've been shut out this year. Now, even if Sunny goes nine innings and only gives up one run, the Cardinals are still losing that game because the offense didn't do dittily poo against the Marlins. But Sonny goes just five innings, gives up three runs on eight hits. He strikes out five. That big hit was the two out two run home run that he gave up to the Marlins number nine hitter, Graham Pauley.

Starting point is 00:24:49 Like it was cool to see that moment where the one guy got his first hit in the major leagues and his family was there. Although it looked like one of his guys was wearing a Seattle Mariners jersey. I don't know what that means. It plays for the Marlins, not the Mariners. But either way, that was what they were doing. And that was a cool moment to see him get the hit. But it started. this thing for the for the marlins in that inning, which led to the home run.

Starting point is 00:25:12 So kind of sucked that that happened against Sunny, but put them into two to nothing, whole Cardinals are playing from behind again. And the way the offense looked last night, they were essentially toast right away. I did not like the way that they were going after Sandy Alcantra, who has had control issues all year. And yet he hits the first guy in the game. And yet they are swinging at the first and second. and pitch against him. I just, I don't, I don't get it. I don't understand it. Anyway,

Starting point is 00:25:41 Sunny Gray in the month of July is in the area of 7.81. That's terrible. His last nine games, it's over six. And that's including the complete game shut out in Cleveland on June 27th, which is a very disturbing trend for a guy who's 35 years old and he's going to make a lot of money next year. Cardinals are in a bit of a bind there. He's got a no trade clause. Doesn't have to go anywhere if he doesn't want to. So the cartels are, on the hook for that money unless Sunny Gray's mind changes and he wants to go somewhere else. It doesn't appear that he wants to. So last three starts in particular have been really, really bad. 13 and a third innings, 17 earned runs, 30 hits in 13 and a third innings.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Five home runs. The ERA is at 11.48. Opponents are hitting 510 against him on balls in play. So when they do put it in play, half the time. A little over half the time, it is going to be ahead. That's crazy. That's crazy. And as far as we know, there's no injuries, no issues for Sunny Gray. He's just been bad. Missing over the heart of the plate will have that effect.

Starting point is 00:26:53 You just can't do that. So things are not good for Sonny. Stephen Matt's came in last night. He was ineffective in his one inning of work, which sucks because he's on the trade block as well. So that doesn't do us any favors for his trade value. So that's no good. And then the offense stymied only four hits against Sandy Alcantra in the Marlins bullpen. Burley came up in two big situations with two outs, granted, but he flew out in one of them,

Starting point is 00:27:18 stranded two guys in that situation, and then came up with the bases loaded at two out, and then struck out, which wiped out two big scoring chances and essentially ended this ballgame. They went nowhere after that. So not a great night, Imblish Stadium for the Cardinals, not fun for the, those of us who are rooting for the guys in white. Not everybody is these days. Hopefully tonight goes better. You do have Miles Michaelis against Calquantrol Miles.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Very good at his last start. Five shutout innings, allowed seven hits against the pod trays. But if patterns mean anything to you, it's usually good game, bad game. Good game, bad game for Michaelis, which means he's set up to have a rough one tonight. Let's hope he doesn't. Let's hope he doesn't. It be nice to get a series win. It feels like it's been forever.

Starting point is 00:28:06 Thanks for making a Lockedong Cardinals. It's your first listen every day. If you haven't already, give us follow on X at L0 underscore Cardinals at a JD Sports Radio, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube at Locked on Cardinals. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Locked on Cardinals. Make sure you're following us on those social medias for anything related to the trade deadline. We got you covered.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Ryan Helsley's Future Hangs In the BALANCE as Cardinals Consider Trades Involving Their Bullpen

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