Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Sending Gorman Down Was The Right Thing To Do

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

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Nolan Gorman has mercifully been sent down to Memphis, why this is a good thing and was the right thing to do on today's episode of Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D. Haffern and I'm a National Radio Sports anchor born and raised in the Lou and a lifetime Cardinals fan. And I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day. follow me on Twitter X at JD Sports Radio and the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. I want to thank those of you who make Lockdown Cardinals your first listen every day. We are free and available wherever you get your podcast. We're also on YouTube.

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holy smokes, what a game and what a win on Wednesday night. We had drama. We had excitement. We got a pinch hit Baker bomb. We had a shirtless rally guy behind home plate. Some people were requesting that I go shirtless on today's show. Talk to the bosses, no good. They do not want that to happen. So I can't do that. So shirtless. guy, that's all yours. And then we had the walk off grand slam from Nolan Aranato. It was a hell of a ride. It was a hell of a ride on Wednesday. And we will talk about that a little bit later. But I want to start with the Nolan Gorman news from yesterday. The Cardinals made a bunch of moves on Tuesday that, you know, got the fans talking, got them arguing about firing this

guy and firing that guy. Who's being wrong? Who should be on this team? Who should be at Memphis? this. It's the most life I've seen out of the fan base since the trade deadline, honestly, because everything's been kind of down in the dumps and sad because they kept losing. And it just wasn't a lot to really talk about. There was just plenty of us to whine about, which we've all done plenty of. But not a whole lot to get conversation going. Everyone has an opinion on it. And we are going to get to some of the thoughts in today's show with some of the fan feedback,

because I want your voice to be heard. But then on Wednesday, they made another major move by optioning Nolan Gorman to Memphis and recalling Jose Fermin. Now, I say a major move because of who Gorman is, not what he's been doing because he's been basically a bench player for a while now. Hasn't done a whole lot with the stick.

And it was just going in the wrong direction. and it didn't seem like there was any way that he was ever going to come back and be able to contribute to this team, which still has not given up on possibly making the wild card. They haven't done that yet. They're not waving a white flag. They're not quitting. You've seen the Ali Marble quotes after the game is like,

we're not going to quit. So we're going to keep fighting and we're going to keep trying until we're done. But we're not quitting, which is great. You don't want a locker room that's already been like, yeah, we're screwed. Let's pack it up. Let's start playing all the young guys and benching everybody. We don't want to go there yet. I'm one of the guys that has stuck up for Nolan Gorman through thick and thin.

I attached myself to him and was like, look, I like this dude. I think he's going to be really, really good. I know what he is and I know what he isn't. Now, he is not a guy who is going to hit 300. All right? I think most people understand that. He is a guy that is going to strike. out a decent amount. He always has. Even with all the success in the minor leagues, he struck out a ton.

This is not new. But what he does do to make up for those strikeouts is he gives you a real threat of damage every time he's up at the plate. You could put one in the seats at any moment. That's what he gives you. He's dangerous. You can strike him out, but he's dangerous. And he gets a hold of it. He doesn't even have to hit it flush. And it's going into the stands. my eyes, the ceiling for Nolan Gorman, the guy who I kind of want him to be like, and I feel like he's going to be like at some point, is the Dodgers Max Muncie. Muncie averages over 162 game season, a 227 batting average. Nothing to scream home about, right? And that's going to upset some people because people want better stats than that.

but in this day and age, hitting over 300 isn't all that common. So 227 is more realistic. It's not good by any means, but he also gives you 35 home runs. He gives you 95 RBIs. He gives you an OPS plus of 122. He gives you 157 strikeouts. But could you live with that?

Could you live with 227 and 157 strikeouts? But 35 dingers, 95. dingers, 95 ribbons, OPS plus 122, above average defense. Could you live with that? I could. And earlier this year, he was on pace to do stuff like that. On June 4th, 53 games into the season, he was on pace for 43 home runs and 95 RBIs, along with 220 strikeouts.

But from that point on, things started to. go south and it got bad. Over the next 54 games, he hit just 170 with five home runs and 19 RBIs, but the strikeouts are still there, 79 of them. So that's a pace over 162 games of only 15 home runs, 57 RBIs, 237 strikeouts over 162 games. That you cannot live with. that that's that's that's no just no no means no and whatever is going on with nolan gorman whatever the causes were for him to look the way he did at the plate they haven't been able to fix it and it got so bad that they weren't even playing him anymore he was just on the bench couldn't start him against lefties afraid to start him against righties

because he couldn't put the ball in play. And what were the words of John Moseilock just the other day when talking about young hitters? They got to play. They got to play. They don't belong on the bench. He cringes at the idea of something like that happening, right? Well, Gorman had become a platoon player. That's where they had them.

And that is something that cannot happen with a guy at his age, with his talent, and his possible future. So finally, Mo makes the call and says, all right, that's enough's enough. Let's send him back to Memphis because he wasn't getting any better. If you had seen any sort of progression, then maybe you keep them around. That way you can get him in the lineup. But again, a team that is still fighting for the wildcard spot, they're not giving up. You've got six weeks. So, you know, we've seen stranger things happen.

But you couldn't put him in the lineup anymore. You couldn't trust him. He comes up in a lot of big situations and it's a strikeout. and you just couldn't do it anymore. And I know you can say the same thing about Paul Goldsman and Nolan Arnado. These guys don't have options. You can't send them to the minor leagues. You know, they're stuck on this lineup and you're going to live or die with those guys.

But I think this demotion, I think it's a good thing. It's not the team. And don't take it as the team is giving up on Nolan Gorman. This is not the last time we're going to see him. Heck, he could be up later up this year. if things get good at Memphis. I heard people talking about, well, we should trade him. They're not going to trade him this offseason while his value is at its lowest point.

Like, why would you do that? That doesn't make any sense. Why are you punting on somebody at his age with his capabilities who just two months ago was on base for 40-something home runs and almost 100 RBIs? You're punting on that guy after a two-month stretch. where he looks lost. Like his career's over in your eyes. Like, that's crazy to me.

Like, that's so ridiculous. And trading him at his lowest point of value, hello, Dylan Carlson. Is that what we want to do again? You need another Sean Armstrong? No offense, Sean, but considering where Dylan Carlson started, getting you in return for him seems like a loss. But, you know, it opens up the conversation of why.

Why is this such a common problem with young hitters in this organization? Like, why does it keep happening? I wish I had the answers. I don't. But it's all I think about. Like, why are these guys not becoming the hitters that we all envision until after they leave this organization? It's crazy. How often it happens recently, you know?

I don't remember what the hell happened back in the 2000s, but, you know, you know, the list of people who have moved on from here and have carved out some really good careers. and I don't care who you need to hire. They got to figure this out. Like what is causing the regression of a guy like Nolan Gorman or what happened to Dylan Carlson? Jordan Walker. Why? Why? What's going on here?

Two years ago, heck, last year, Jordan Walker the second half of the season was awesome. He was a really good hitter. And then nothing. Outside of like this last week and a half the Jordan Walker had at Memphis, it wasn't like he was doing all that much in AAA. Why? Why can't they fix this? And I know injuries played a major role in what happened with Tyler O'Neill, as well as Carlson, I mean, who this spring finally looked like the guy that we all thought he could be at some point, the guy that we saw that rookie year. And then he and Walker collided in the outfield in Arizona, ruining the start to his

season, ultimately costing him his role in center field after the time he had been injury. It was Carlson's job to lose and unfortunately injury took it away from him. Michael Ciani, Phil Zenn takes off. End of story. Like is it how they're being taught? Is it what they're being taught? I wish I knew. I wish I was in the meetings. I wish I could understand it all. Like why is it that Ryan Ludwig shows up in Memphis and helps fix Victor Scott in just a simple conversation? Like, what was it? Why wasn't Victor doing this before? Like, why isn't he following the advice of Cardinals instructors if they also thought that the leg kick was a good idea? Like, how are they just like, nope, not doing it?

What do you mean you're not doing it? Like, we're trying to help you, man. Like, why would it, why would they say no to the instructors? It's crazy to me. And it's not like all the young hitters are terrible. I mean, Mason win. Great year. Alec Berlinson, huge year.

Right. Michael Ciani, still a rookie, was getting better before his injury, like his batting average kept climbing and climbing was one of the hottest centers on the team before he got hurt. But there's something wrong here. And whatever it is they need to do, go like deep, deep, deep, Titanic search diving needs to be done. If you ever want to compete with these payrolls, these teams that are like 250 to 350 million, if you're not going to pay that price, which is apparently not what the Cardinals are interested in doing, and I respect that. It's your money.

I get it. Then you got to develop your own talent. You got to be better at it. You have to grow it on your own and let it thrive in your system. And this goes for not only hitters but pitchers too. Like, you know, you're seeing the highlights of Teen Kent's and Quinn Matthews and how great they look. I hope it continues.

Do you trust our organization to help them continue? you. There's strides that they've made. Tocoa Robbertsa, Ian Badell, Cooper Jerpy, Michael McGreevy, who looked great in his one start with the Cardinals this year, but hasn't been that great in the minors. According Grecepho, like, they need these guys to succeed or they're screwed if you're not going to pay the price that it takes to bring in the free agents. It's easier, sad than done. I know it's not simple, but they just got to figure it out. Something has to happen.

The window of Goldie and Nato is closing. Next year is where you need this to be your core. You need Mason Wynn, Alec Berlinson, who seem entrenched and great. They're at the top of the lineup. Awesome. But you need Jordan Walker. You need Nolan Gorman. You need Lars Newpar.

Michael Ciani will be in his second full year. Apparently he's going to be a part of this future now. Like you look great this year. Contreras, Nato, Donovan. They're still going to be there. maybe even Goldie. Don't close the book on that yet, but it's time for this young group of players to rise together for this franchise.

And if Walker, Gorman, and Newt do what they did this year, then we are set up for more disappointment the next year in 2025 and more mediocre seasons like you're seeing. So that's my thoughts on that. Let me know what you think. Hit me up in the comments section. We're going to do some fan feedback and answer some questions next. on lockdown parties. Life gets busy. Life is real busy. And even the most dedicated gym goers,

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It was your first listen today for your second list and enjoy the Lockton MLB podcast. with Sully, who was here daily to provide national expertise with his trademark humor. He's getting you ready for the fall classic has covered you all season long and continues to do it every single day on Lockdown MLB, which is available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Remember, you can catch every pitch of the Cardinals hometown broadcast with Sirius XM. Just download the SXM app and search the word Cardinals. Time for your voice to be heard. in our fan feedback segment, or as I've been calling it recently,

Unleased the Fury! Which comes from the road trip movie when he's talking to the snake, trying to get him to eat the mouse. But a lot of people have been angry and upset recently for a lot of good reasons. The team is probably not going to make the playoffs for a second straight year. Haven't won a playoff game since 2020. I haven't won a playoff series since 2019. And as a spoiled fan base, we are not.

used to this. And I got a tweet last night and I believe it was from a Cubs fan. I wish I had copied what his name and stuff was, but I believe it was a Cubs fan, to be honest, who was like, oh, boo-hoo. The Cardals have two tough years and one franchise sold and everyone fired, you bunch of brats. And at first I was like, whoa, dude, name-calling, unnecessary. But then I was like, well, there's some merit to that, to be honest, because we are spoiled brats. And it's okay. The Cardinals fans do not know a lot about losing. It's been a long time since we've seen our teams struggle the way they had the last two seasons.

We expect a certain level of competition. We expect a certain amount of money to be spent because we show up and pay. So we think our ownership should do the same thing, right? And we expect a certain amount of success. Cardinals fans are so old school. We are. We are so old school. We want to see the stuff that we wanted to see in the 40s or the 50s. We want to see hustle.

We want to see effort. We want to see solid fundamentals. I want to see smart base running. Like last night, there was the play where there was, it looked like they were trying to steal the run. Runners on first and third, two out Tommy fam at the plate. Lars Newpar is on third. Matt Carpenter is on first.

Matt Carpenter goes to steal second base. And it looks like one of those plays where they're trying to get him to throw the ball down. That way Newt can come home. Newt never runs, easy out, ending over. What the hell was that? That is not good base running. That is not what we want to see. And that is the stuff that will make us boo you.

But if we see all of these other things, the simple things, the little things, we see that. The fans for the most part are not going to crush you. you're giving the effort that we expect out of you. But if we don't see that, then you lose and you keep losing, you're going to know about it. And we're going to show you that we're upset. And after two straight years of this crap,

you're seeing it at the ballpark. Bush Stadium is a ghost town right now. Another career low for Bush Stadium 3 last night, under 30,000 first time other than a pandemic year that that happened. So and it's not likely going to rise unless they start winning a bunch of ball games. I mean, it was, it's sad. You know, you see Paul Goldsmith's 2000 hit, the home run was in front of like a few hundred people. Last night's walk off grand slam by Nolan Aronado, not a lot of people around there.

It's sad. But fans have decided to do other things with their money. because they don't think they're getting the effort they deserve. And that's their right as fans. When the front office makes poor decisions over and over and over again, if the manager, and I'm not talking about just Ali, but anybody can't get these guys fired up the way fans think they should be or keeps relying on guys that aren't producing and continues to stick to their ways,

those are the frustrating things that drive them nuts as fans. And I know we live in a world today that, Patience is not something that most people have anymore. And I know that's a Mo trigger word, but if a guy has too bad games, some fans are like, ah, bench him. He sucks, trade him. And that's not realistic. That's just you having a reaction to something.

That's not how the game of baseball is done. But there does come a point where changes clearly need to be made, and this franchise has waited too long to make them. Nolan Gorman, I feel like, he's been on this team a little bit longer than he should have been. I know they don't want to give him the idea that they're giving up on him, but if you're not going to play him, let him go down there and figure it out at Memphis,

where it's very less stressful, you know? The Brandon Crawford thing, I got it into it with a guy online last night. You know, I felt like Crawford was on this team too long, not because he's a bad guy, not because he didn't do good things in the locker room, but his play on the field didn't match what the Cardinal needed from a bench player.

And yet, there he was all the time, just kind of rotting at the end of the bench. He wasn't contributing hardly at all. Giovanni Gallegos, how long have we like, dude, toast, time to move on. Finally, they did it this year. But it seems like it, they waited way too long. And like I said yesterday, in Crawford mood being a long overdue, what was the point of him on the roster since June other than a voice in the clubhouse? you know, winners your guy,

you need someone who can hit lefties. He doesn't do that. Doesn't offer you any kind of base running upgrades. What was he really offering you anymore? So that was my argument with that guy on there. It's not that Brandon Crawford, the bad dude. I think Brandon Crawford was probably awesome.

I know he's buddies with Goldie. I know he's buddies with Aronado. Good veteran presence. But that's what Matt Carpenter is there for. Why do you need two of those guys? And yeah, he can play shortstop, but Jose Fermin can play shortstop. And he gives you an upgrade in the speed, gives you a little youth.

He's just got the versatility that Brandon Crawford can on the infield. Now he doesn't hit lefties as well, was looking at his splits, which, you know, but that's why Lucan Baker is on the roster now. That's his job to do that. So anyhow, let's go to another one from Chris on YouTube. Paul Goldschmidt looks toasted. are they really thinking about bringing it back next year? Honestly, Chris, I don't think they've ruled it out yet,

which is a little scary considering the regression we've seen since his MVP season. I get that it isn't easy to bench someone who has a Hall of Fame resume like Paul Goldschmidt, who's a great guy. Another guy like a Brandon Crawford, like these are great dudes. They're great guys. But a class act his entire career. But when you're five months into this season and it's, honestly, been almost two years that he's just continuously gotten worse and worse and worse.

The idea that he's going to magically turn back into MVP Goldie from 2020, it's long gone. It's long gone. You just got, you just got admit it. And that's okay. It's okay. It's the end of his contract this year. That's okay. That's a whole point.

We get every, we milk every ounce of baseball we can out of you. Contract ends. his career winding down. It's all ending at a perfect time. It's unfortunate he wasn't able to do better last year and this year because the team was relying on him to be better than what he is. But it's not like you've got him under contract three more years. But you've got, here's the thing.

You've got two guys on this roster right now, who could be your first basement of the future in Alec Berluson and Luke and Baker. Now Burley struggles against lefties, okay? Not a small sample size. We know that he struggles. against lefties. Lucan Baker hits leavens very well in his career in the minor leagues. Granted, but why not a platoon next year?

You can platoon outfielders? Why can't you platoon over at first base? These last few weeks of the season, again, I know they haven't given up yet, but you need to figure out what these guys can do. Can Burley play for space in the lineup on Thursday playing first base? Does Lucan Baker's bat play at the major league level? Look good last night on his own run. But if you don't test it out, how do you know?

How do you know if it's going to work or not? So you just can't hold back the future just so you don't hurt somebody's feelings. The grown men, this is a business about results and winning. And I think Goldie would understand that if he has less playing time the rest of this year. Nick on YouTube, Mo and his team of Yesman have destroyed this organization. Mo would do it have done so much damage that there is only one way to fix it, a top-down rebuild. They must hire a new head of baseball operations and allow them to change the front office scouting, player development, and coaching. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Nick, I am not disagreeing with you here. I think this organization has gotten lazy. I think it got stale. It didn't change with the times. They were kind of smug about it all. You know, things had worked so well for so long. We know what we're doing. And now they're playing ketchup.

And I think it's weird that, you know, there's just been a lot of crazy drama. I mean, it's weird that the last three managers they hire have never managed in the big leagues before. It's weird. It's weird. I think it's weird that one of them, Mike Schilt was let go for philosophical differences, despite being groomed in your organization. When did it, when did it change? Like, what happened? This guy won a manager of the year award, was a finalist for it again.

could win it this year in San Diego could win another one. He's thriving out west. But for whatever reason, showing him the door. I think it's weird that they hyped up the return of Yadda or Molina this year and he never showed up. We never heard from him. I understand life happens.

There were things I guess that he had to take care of back home. I get it. But that was like a major selling point at the beginning of the season to make fans feel better about this new season. And nothing. They don't talk about it. They never brought it up again. They just were like, shove it under the rug,

act like it never happened. But it was strange that Ali got an extension to avoid backlash. Not because he was a good manager, but because they wanted to do avoid backlash if the season started off poorly, which did. There's a lot of odd behavior, you know? Certainly not the stable winning formula that we've known over the years. Like, this is the stuff that happens everywhere else.

not in St. Louis, not with our team. And it's been on our doorstep for a couple of years now. And it's gross. I don't want it. I don't want it in this house anymore. Get it out. All right. Speaking of winning, the boys pulled off a fun one last night.

I want to talk about it and reminisce about some positive things. We'll do it next on Locked on Cardinals. Get supplies from the site that's made for the skilled trades. Supplyhouse.com. Supplyhouse.com is the reliable way to order plumbing, HVAC, and electrical products online. their easy-to-use website is packed with helpful resources and the latest product info to help you get the job done right. You can shop a complete inventory of over 200,000 parts from over 400 top brands and get your order delivered right to your door with fast shipping from coast to coast.

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You can find the link to Locked-on MLB in the description, so you don't need to search. Part of the Lock-on Podcast Network, your team every day. So the Cardinals haven't had a lot of come from behind late inning walkoff victories this year, but we'll have seen it was on Wednesday night when they came from behind a couple of times to get the win. Notto, obviously, with the walkoff grand slam, which was fantastic to see. Quick thoughts on the game last night, Kyle Gibson, decent outing, five and two-thirds innings, allowed just two runs, five Ks, two walks, visibly upset when he couldn't get through six with the lead

because the Cardinals staked him a two-to-nothing lead, but he couldn't get through it. A bullpen was a bit shaky last night. They all had trouble with their command last night. Six walks between Fernandez, Romero, Kittridge, and Libertor. The most infuriating ones for me were the leadoff walks to Hoskins and the seventh, which led to the Brewer scoring two more to take the four to two lead. Then again, in the eighth inning after Lucan Baker has this dramatic pinch hit two-run Dinger, which was awesome to see.

Got the curtain call. Awesome. Great to see that. Comes in, in the position he's been called up for and delivers with a huge mash into the bullpen and left field. And then what happens to lead off the next inning? Jojo Romero walks Willie Adomas. I seriously, if I could have thrown my remote, I would have. I was, it infuriates me when they don't throw strikes. Like, I cannot stand it.

So that happens. Kit comes in. they get it out and then Kit walks a guy. Hoskins, I believe it was again. And they both end up scoring, making it six to four. And it's like, here we go again. Here we go again. It's either one thing or another.

I described it like playing whackable last night on Twitter X. I'm like, one thing goes good. Something else pops up. Like it's just, it's unbelievable. But lucky for the Cardinals, Devin Williams implodes in the ninth inning, can't find his command. I don't know why.

If it's something with the mile last, I don't know, but he hits Contreras, then gives up a double to Jose Fermine. Nato goes down swinging. You're like, godly, dude. Newton walks. Goldie looks like he gets hit by a pitch, but nobody calls it. Ends up going down on strikes. Pitch was inside. Wasn't a strike.

Wasn't in the zone, but they called it anyway. Just the season goal he's having. So now you feel like you're kind of set up for another disappointing loss, but then carp and fam show patience. They take walks, ties the game up. Just bizarre how wild everything got in these innings as far as these pitchers. Housley looked awesome in the 10th inning and the Cardinals get an intentional walk. Then for me in walks to load up the bases with one out for Nato and I even tweet it out. I was like, there's no way he doesn't win it here, right?

Right? Like, I've seen him succeed too many times to think that he would fail again. And he'd had a tough night. Drop the pop-up and foul territory. He didn't use two hands. That's going to piss Cardinal fans off. He whiffs in the night with second and third and nobody out. And we know it all goes away with just a sack fly.

All right. Nato delivers here. All's forgiven. You're cool. And Nato does the best thing he can possibly do. He says, screw it. If I take any chances, puts it in the seats in left field, line shot, gorgeous, walk off grand slam. Cards won at 10 to 6.

And live to fight another day. I got a picture of it from a YouTuber's, them getting hit with the cooler afterwards. Who is that? Was that Contreras and Newt doing it to them? It's hard to tell there. But anyway, huge win because the team is on life support. A game they needed badly, they need every single win.

They can possibly get to stick around on this. Now two and seven against Milwaukee with four more left against them. Michaelis on the bump on Thursday has not been very good. Can they catch lightning in a bottle again against this exhausting Brewers lineup who is just, I mean, I just tip my hat to a man, like watching them and their bats, like they are so disciplined. They don't chase. They foul off a million pitches.

Everything I wish the Cardinals hitters were, the Brewers are who that I want them to be like. They don't rely on the home run to get all their runs. They'll take their walks. They'll steal the bases on you. They'll bunt. the multiple bunt attempts last night after they had the lead again like it's all the small things that they do right that the cardals don't which has them separated by so many games and it's going to be tough for a guy like Michaelis today who is a pitch to contact guy so good luck to Miles

mix up your speed stay in and out don't miss over the plate throw strikes don't put them on Don't hurt yourself. And may God be with you. All right. Thanks for making a lockdown cardals your first listen to every day. If you haven't already, give us a follow on Twitter X at L0 underscore Cardinals in a JD Sports Radio. Like, subscribe on YouTube. Do me a solid and help the channel grow.

You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. I'll see you next time. Hopefully with even more good news because it worked out last time on Lockdown Cardinals.