Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Should The St. Louis Cardinals DANGLE Brendan Donovan For Royals Pitching in BLOCKBUSTER Trade?

Starting point is 00:00:00 In the Cardinals' eternal search for quality starting pitching, a deal with their buddies across the state in Kansas City could be the answer. You are Locked-on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans, I'm J.D. Hafer, a former national radio sports anchor, born and raised in St. Louis, and a Lifetime Cardinals fan. And welcome to another episode of Locked-on Cardinals, part of the Locked-on podcast network. now the number one sports podcast network. A big thank you to our everydayers for continuing to be here through thick and thin each and every day. And for those of you who are new, welcome in. I hope you guys enjoy the content.

Starting point is 00:00:45 This is a show serving Cardle Nation and giving you all the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fandall. If you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fandle.com and place your NFL live bets all season long. So coming up on today's show, we've got a waiver claim. that just went down not too long ago involving the Cardinals, grabbing a picture from the Cleveland Guardians. We're going to talk a little bit about Nolan Aronado, but we're going to start with the winter meetings,

Starting point is 00:01:13 and we're going to start with a mock trade that has been brought up. Now, the winter meetings begin on Sunday in Orlando, and the Cardinals are going to be one of the more interesting teams to watch because of all the players that have been listed, as guys, they will listen to trade deals on. You've already dealt your top pitching chip and sunny gray. you still have Nolan Aronado to deal with. We'll talk more about that in segment two.

Starting point is 00:01:37 And you got a group of left-handed hitters that they are reportedly open to trading away. That group includes Brennan, Alec Bilsson, Lars Newfar, and Nolan Gorman. Now, the markets for Newt and Gorman probably aren't great. Newt is coming off surgeries to both his heels. Gorman coming off another rough year at the plate and isn't anything all that special defensively. So anything you get in return for them isn't likely to move the needle among Cardinals fans. But, but trading Donovan or trading Burleson, as much as us as fans don't want to see that happen because we like these guys and they're pretty good. We want to keep them around.

Starting point is 00:02:14 It is likely to net them some pretty good assets in return. Now, we've heard reports about how strong the Donovan market is. And I'm betting there are plenty of teams who would love to add a Silver Slugger award winning hitter like Alec Berlson, left-handed slugger. and the prime, why wouldn't you want to put that in your lineup? But we have also heard that it would take something massive to pry either one of them away from the Cardinals who aren't necessarily under the gun, so to speak, to move either one of them. They don't have to. Neither one of them is going to be a free agent next year.

Starting point is 00:02:48 It's not like they're trying to dump their salary or anything like that, but they're going to listen in case someone offers something spectacular that they just can't refuse or gets them someone that they really, really like. You know, they would be willing probably to take a less if there's one player that's somebody that they really are after, somebody they're very much targeting. Now, a team that has a solid crop of pitching right across the state, right? The Kansas City Royals, they've got a plethora of pitching right now. A lot of guys from the left-hand side, cardals don't have a lot of those.

Starting point is 00:03:27 You know, you've got a Liam Doyle. It's in the minors that you know, you're hoping for good things to happen with him in the near future. But at the major league level, you don't. You've got Matthew Libertor in the starting rotation and Jojo Romero right now. That's really it from the left-hand side. So getting somebody from the Royals, it just seems to make a lot of sense. We've discussed how the two teams match up pretty well in a trade scenario. And the athletics Jim Bowden recently put a piece out on the free agent's trade scenario.

Starting point is 00:03:59 that he would like to see in his winter meetings wish list column that he put down. And the trade he came up with is as follows. The Cardinals would be trading second baseman, Brendan Donovan, and outfielder Jordan Walker, to the Kansas City Royals for left-handed pitcher Chris Bubich and a right-hander, Ben, and I don't want to screw up his last name, but Kuderna is, I believe, how he pronounces it. Ben Kudurna. This is what Bowden writes about this particular deal.

Starting point is 00:04:28 Let's get you. Let's get you a photo of Mr. Boobich up there on the screen there. Across Missouri trade gives Donovan and Walker a chance to compete for an AL central title. While the rebuilding Cardinals had two pitchers with team control remaining, Donovan will pair with Bobby Whit Jr. To give the Royals an elite middle infield in Kansas City will get a shot and unlocking Walker's immense potential. Now, the debate has been when we've discussed these deals with the Royals is whether

Starting point is 00:04:54 the Cardinals should be trying to get Cole Reagan's or Boobich. Now, Bubich, who is listed in this particular deal, 28 years old, former first round thick, has that injury issues. Tommy John in 23. Last year it was a rotator strain, but he was an All-Star last year in the first half of the season before he ended up getting that rotator strain. When he's healthy, he's been pretty good.

Starting point is 00:05:19 All-Star last year combined ERA plus 160 over the last two seasons. You like that. Kuderna is the Royal Seventh-ranked prospect, second rounder back in 21, won the Kansas baseball Gatorade Player of the Year honors as a senior, decided to go pro instead of going to college. He's still just 22 years old. Didn't have a great season last year by any means. Two and seven record with a 4.21 ERA and 20 appearances,

Starting point is 00:05:42 19 of those were starts at AA, and then he was 0.1 with a 14.29ERA and four appearances, three of those starts at AAA. So you think about that deal. And, you know, similar to the sunny gray one that was just made with Boston, where you're getting a pitcher who can help you now and then another one that hopefully can help you later on down the road. I don't think getting that in return for just Donovan would be so bad. Like if you traded Brennan Donovan and you're able to get a boobage and a prospect like that, a top 10 prospect in somebody's farm system, I don't think that's so bad.

Starting point is 00:06:26 But, you know, having to toss in Jordan Walker with it, that bugs me a little bit because I've said it before. I'm willing to give him another year to see if we can turn this thing around. He's still just 23. I don't know why everyone wants to move on from him so quickly. I just, I know we've had a couple of years here, but injuries kind of bugged him last year. You know, he's putting in the effort this offseason to try to get this thing figured out and get back to what made him successful. as a prospect early on in his career. His stock can't get much lower.

Starting point is 00:07:00 It's not like you're selling him high right now before somebody figures out that he's not good. He hasn't been good the last couple seasons. So the stock's not going any lower. But I also understand that if you love Chris Boobich as the pitcher that you want to go get your hands on, why you wouldn't want to pass on that opportunity, why you wouldn't let Jordan Walker stand in your way?

Starting point is 00:07:24 I haven't seen enough of, of Chris Boobich pitch to say that I love him or don't love him. Same thing with Cole Reagan's, who had his own rotator injury last season to worry about as well. So I haven't gotten to see a ton of these guys over the last couple of years to really make a judgment call on whether or not like, ooh, that's that's the guy I really, really want. I don't feel that way about them. I know they're solid pitchers when they're on the mount, which is great. But I'm with a lot of you in the comment section where I'd much rather be going after

Starting point is 00:07:56 some guys who don't have as much of an injury concern. First, before I set along guys like a boobage and a Reagan's, you know, John Denton at MLB.com, he swung for the fences in some of the names that he brought up, saying because the Cardinals aren't likely to be World Series contenders again until at least 27 or 28, they'd be smart to deal Donovan while his value was at its peak with the Mariners, surrender, Brian Wu. What if the Cardinals could land Miami's Yuri Perez or Cleveland's Tanner Bybee? or Pittsburgh's Jared Jones or Bubba Chandler.

Starting point is 00:08:30 Okay, so those are some massive names. Like Brian Wu was the Mariners best pitcher last year. And he ended up getting hurt late in the season, which is why you didn't see him much in the postseason. But he was awesome last year. Yuri Perez, before the arm surgery, was one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, still has great stuff. certainly has a very high ceiling.

Starting point is 00:08:59 Tanner Bybee, we know what he can do. Jared Jones was hurt last year. Bubba Chandler, it's one of the best pitching prospects in baseball as well. I cannot see Pittsburgh giving a Bubba Chandler for Brin Donovan. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So I feel like some of those names, kind of a reach for me. Seattle and Cleveland, there are teams that have been brought up before. And if Bowden's deal is the best that the Cardinals can do,

Starting point is 00:09:23 then perhaps they should take it. But I want to hear your thoughts and comments below on this deal. Good, bad, dumb, smart. What are you chasing in a Brendan Donovan deal? Would you add a Jordan Walker or a Nolan Gorman if you had to to go get somebody of the caliber of the Chris Bubbage? That is my question for you. Leave your thoughts in the comments. In my opinion, you can't move Donnie unless you have this Aronado situation figured out, though, first.

Starting point is 00:09:52 I feel like that's got to get taken care of and figured out first. We'll discuss that next coming up on Locked on Cardinals. The World Cup is coming back to North America. First time since, what, 1994? It's been a long time. And 48 teams for the first time ever, this thing's going to be massive. You know, it's the World Cup, man. It's huge.

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Starting point is 00:11:24 Again, download the app, make an account use code locked on MLB for $20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket go, game time. Thanks for making Locked on Cardinals, your very first list at each and every day. And thank you for making Locked on the number one sports podcast network. Now, if you enjoyed Daily Cardinals content, you can follow the podcast on X, YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram all over the place. The Sunny Gray Deal caught me a little off guard when it happened, not because it did happen, but because how quickly it was able to come through fruition.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Now, when you have a talented player like Sunny, you usually want to get other teams in on the idea that you're going to move them, right? You want to get them to bid against each other for that particular player services. That way you get the best deal possible. With Sunny, things were a bit different. He's got or had the no trade clause and essentially could tell

Starting point is 00:12:24 High and Bloom of the Cardinals where he was willing to go. My guess is that it wasn't a very big list. And when one of those teams, like the Red Sox, offers you assets that you really, really wanted, Richard Fitz, Brandon Clark. It did not take long for Hime to smash that yes button, right? And accept the deal. Now, talking with Gabby from Locked on Red Sox yesterday, we both agree that this is a deal that right now feels like a win-win for both sides.

Starting point is 00:12:53 You know, the Sox got their guy, don't have to pay him his full salary. Cardinals, save some money, get some pitching with one guy who can help immediately, and then one guy who they really, really like, whose timeline fits, with what the Cardinals timeline is for getting back into contention and into a winning window. Everyone seems happy right now. And we can monitor how that changes as the season progresses because I'm sure well. But the next domino that needs to happen and is reportedly still priority number one for the Cardinals is moving on from Nolan Aronado, which unfortunately could also be the most challenging move that the team will make in this offseason.

Starting point is 00:13:31 For one, also has a no trade clause, which is always a. a pain in the butt and he can pick and choose where he would prefer to go. Sunny probably had a very short list of teams. Last year, Aronado had a very short list of teams that he was willing to listen to. But we've heard that this list has probably expanded a bit now that Nolan is more willing to be moved than he was last year. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the fact that they had a deal with the Houston Astros last year and Nato vetoed it really screwed the Cardinals over.

Starting point is 00:14:03 This whole rebuild, this whole runway thing that they were going for in 2025 got screwed up because of that. They wanted to give Nolan Gorman and Thomas C. More time to play each and every day at third base and at second base and see how they were. And that all got sabotaged by Aronado deciding I didn't want to go to Houston. And I'm betting they look back on it now and the cardals are still kind of about it where our Aronado is probably the same way. He's like, yeah, I probably should have done that. I probably should have went to Houston. They had a pretty good team. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that having Nolan Aronado on the Cardinals would be an inconvenience.

Starting point is 00:14:44 I never thought it would be a problem that he's over there playing third base for you. But that's what happened last year. It slowed down the wheels of this whole rebuild, as did the no trade clauses of Sonny Gray, Wilson Contreras, and Miles Michaelis. They didn't want to go anywhere. They didn't want to leave. We tried to get rid of them. We said, hey, well, what do you think? And they said, no, I want to be here.

Starting point is 00:15:04 And so everything the Cardinals wanted to do last year came to a screeching halt. Now here we are this offseason. And Aronado's stock has continued to fall, despite his contract being less of a problem. Now it's not as many years. It's not as expensive. But he is the guy that is once again holding things up for the Cardinals. Every day,ers have heard me mention this before. The sooner that you get Aronado out of the way, the sooner you know how much money you have left over for other things like starting

Starting point is 00:15:31 rotation, ballpen, perhaps a right-handed bat. They can help you out in the outfield. But how difficult is it going to be to move them? And it feels like it's going to be pretty hard. I mean, who even wants them at this point? Declining bat, career low OPS of 666 last year, health concerns after playing in a career low, 107 games, minus the COVID season, obviously.

Starting point is 00:15:54 The glove is still very good, but he hasn't won the gold glove in three years. He's an aging star. at an impact position. So I don't blame other teams for exhausting any and every other avenue before turning to the Cardinals and Arnado as something that they might want to do. The two teams that still feel like possible fits to me are the Phillies and the Diamondbacks. Now, I know the angels have been brought up, but I don't know how realistic that is.

Starting point is 00:16:26 I was talking to John from Locked on Angels yesterday. And he's like, you know, I really gave it a lot of thought. I don't see how bringing Nolan Aronado into this team helps what we're doing at all. And I'm like, yeah, I get it. I get it. As far as the Phillies and the debacks go, neither team would need him to be a main cog in their offense. He'd be a complimentary piece.

Starting point is 00:16:47 Phillies still got Alec Bohm over there at third base, so they'd need to do something with him. They still have to figure out this whole Kyle Schwerber situation. J.T. Romuto is also a free agent. They're a longtime catcher. But Nato's salary, as far as like a. fit for Philly. His salary shouldn't be an issue, especially with the Cardinals likely to eat a big chunk of the money. You'd have him teaming up with Bryce Harper, Trey Turner. They've got that

Starting point is 00:17:10 excellent pitching staff. It's a win now situation. It's a win now ownership who are still trying to figure out why they haven't gotten to the World Series again. Like, why is it happening like this? This team is way too talented to not be winning. And I know, you know, with Zach Wheeler going down last year, that really hurt them because of what he meant to their starting rotation. You're talking about a Cy Young type of pitcher. But that kind of situation, I think, would reinvigorate Nolan Aronado. And perhaps he'd be able to elevate his game and be more like the guy that, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:47 you saw in, say, 2023 instead. The DeBacks, different story altogether. They're much younger. But a presence like Arnada, you know how you always need veteran. leadership. A presence like him could do wonders for that group. It would also get him out west again, which is where he's from. And maybe they bring in Paul Goldschmidt. I brought it up before and the BFFs can reunite together. Got to be some old people on the corners, but they got a lot of youth everywhere else. But we've also seen that the debacks might be shopping Catel Marte. They traded Suarez.

Starting point is 00:18:22 They traded Nailor. Both of those guys went to Seattle. Zach Gallin's a free agent. They had a bunch of bullpen injuries last year. So maybe they're not as close to winning as Nato would like. So maybe Arizona doesn't feel like that's a fit. I don't know. It's just another spot that kind of, you know, makes sense in a way. The Philly one makes the most sense. I know Derek Gould brought it up in his chat the other day too. It just makes a lot of sense. It seems like it could be a good fit. It's one of those, you know, big city classic teams, a lot of leadership already that I think Arnana would feed off of. But what happens if nobody is willing to trade assets for him. Then what happens? Because Hyne Bloom didn't think that releasing him was going to be an option early on in this offseason. But to me, it's starting to feel like the suitors for him aren't all that plentiful. You've still got the free agent guys, Alex Bragman, A Euhayno Svarez, they got to go somewhere. The Japanese players coming over that can play third. That's going to affect the market as well. So we kind of have to wait to see where those guys land before Aronado becomes an option for some of these teams.

Starting point is 00:19:26 it just feels like it's going to be a real struggle to move them. I hope I'm wrong. But if and when it happens, then it will open the door and lead to being able to move on to the idea of trading one of those left-handed bats like Donovan, Gorman, New Bar, Berlson, as well as listening to offers on Wilson Contreras, who apparently is more open to being traded than he was before. So that's kind of where it all stands.

Starting point is 00:19:52 So I feel like Nato is kind of blocking this thing again. from really getting moving. So hopefully something will happen at these winter meetings that are going to start on Sunday. We're going to wrap things up with a waiver claim by the Cardinals. They got themselves a pitcher, plus another former Cardinal heading to Boston. This is locked on Cardinals.

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Starting point is 00:20:57 That should be fun. The bears are at my Packers. We've got both former St. Louis, franchises battling each other with the Rams at the Cardinals. Live betting is best when the game starts to shift. You get a receiver or a quarterback that gets hot, running back, a defense tightens up, momentum flips after a turnover. Fandall will let you jump into the moment and have some fun with it.

Starting point is 00:21:17 You can bet the next TV scores, the drive results, totals, and more. It just keeps you locked into every snap, every drive, every possibility. So if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fandle.com, place your live NFL vets all season long. bandol, the game moves fast, and so can you. Thanks for making Lockton Cardinals. You are first listened every day for your second listen. Find the Lockdown MLB podcast where there is no offseason.

Starting point is 00:21:45 Sully keeps you up to date on contract negotiations, rumors, and everything you need to be the most informed MLB fan. You can find a Lockdown MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast, part of the Locktown Podcast Network, your team every day. Time for news and notes. And late today, not all that long ago, the Cardinals made a move and claimed right-handed pitcher Zach Kent from the Cleveland Guardians. Throw a picture of Zach up there for you.

Starting point is 00:22:11 27 years old, debuted with the Guardians. This past season was 1-0, 4.580RA, 16 strikeouts over 17 and 2 thirds and 12 appearances, originally selected by the Rangers in the 2019 draft out of Virginia Military Institute, BMI is what we call it. He made 68 minor league appearances primarily as a starter with the Rangers after pitching the entire 24 spring training season with them. He got traded to Cleveland and sent to their AAA affiliate in Columbus, was moved to a relief role entirely for the 2025 season with 34 appearances,

Starting point is 00:22:46 posting a 2 and 3 record in a 2.84 ERA with two saves, 6 foot 3, 220 pounds. You look at the photo of him. He's got the red hair, the red beard, you know, he's like, he's like, he's like Dustin May, you know, a guy that we've talked about on this show that maybe the Cardinals ought to kick the tires on to bring him in as a free agent. He's like, he's like Dustin May light. Not as crazy looking, but, you know, he's got some similarities. But made his major league debut last season, features a four pitch,

Starting point is 00:23:17 arsonal, comprised of the slider, four seamer, curveball, and sinker, ran a spin rate of 2850 on his slider, 2851 on his curveball. So those are fantastic to hear. You love to hear that. another name that is being brought in. He immediately goes to the 40-man roster. So the 40-man roster now sits at 39. So they still got one open space left.

Starting point is 00:23:42 So we'll see what they want to do with them. Whether he's going to be in a relief role, is he somebody they'll tinker with and say, hey, you're interested in becoming a starter again like he was before he got to the Guardians organization? We'll find out. And another former Cardinal is headed to Beantown. And it's so funny that we were talking with Gabby.

Starting point is 00:24:00 yesterday and we're like, look, watch, there's going to be another trade. It's going to involve somehow the Cardinals. Kind of. The Pirates made a trade with the Red Sox on Thursday that said Johan Oviedo to Boston. Oveito used to be with the Cardinals. The Red Sox delved outfield during their number three prospect, Joe's Tenson Garcia, although he spells it crazy. J-H-O-S-T-Y-N-X-N. His nickname is the password because it's so goofy. Anyway, it's him. Righty, Jesus, Treveeso, to the Pirates as part of a five-player package. In return to Boston, you get the 6'5-pound Oviedo, plus two minor leaguers, a catcher, Adonis Guzman, and lefty, Tyler, Samaniego, maybe.

Starting point is 00:24:48 To make room on the 40-man roster for Oviedo, the Red Sox designate a right-handed pitcher, Cooper Criswell, for assignment. Oviato, since leaving the Cardinals, if you remember, was sent to Pils. Pittsburgh in the Jose Cantana trade deadline deal back in 2022, which worked out for the Cardinals because Kintana was very, very good. End up being the best pitcher they had started the first game against the Phillies in the playoffs that year, which is the last time the Cardinals made the playoffs. So it worked out nicely. He's had a rough go since going to Pittsburgh. Injuries have been a thing. Tommy John surgery missed all at 24, but made nine starts last season. Two and one, three point five seven ERA and

Starting point is 00:25:26 40 and a third innings. He walked 23, he struck out 42. He looks like he should be a stud. You guys remember him when he was in a cardinal uniform. He looked like he was going to be somebody. They just had to kind of reel it in and figure out how to get this guy to throw more strikes. That was really his problem. It appears it is still one of his major problems with 23 walks in 40 and a third inning. So if they could ever work out that command, he's got stuff to be pretty good. So Boston is where he's going to move to now. Don't have to deal with. him as, you know, one of those revenge game pitchers from the Pittsburgh Pirates anymore. So that's the news and notes that's going on around the league that involves the Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:26:07 And obviously, we'll keep our ears to the ground and see if anything else goes down. But Zach Kent, now a St. Louis Cardinal, how long will Donovan, Aronado, or any of these guys remain around? We'll find out. Once again, winter meetings are going to start on Sunday. anything that changes in between now and then obviously when the meetings begin on Sunday in Orlando, we'll be on top of it all. So make sure you guys are tuned in and paying attention to us. Thanks for making Lockdown Cardinals.

Starting point is 00:26:37 Your first listen to every day if you haven't already. Give us a follow. Kind of a big deal on X at L-Onerscore Cardinals and a Jannie Sports Radio, TikTok, Instagram, Lockdown Cardinals. Like, subscribe on YouTube, help our channel and love for the Cardinals grow. You guys are the best fans in baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Should The St. Louis Cardinals DANGLE Brendan Donovan For Royals Pitching in BLOCKBUSTER Trade?

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