Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - Sonny Gray Struggles

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

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Where are we on the worry meter after another rough outing for Sunny Gray? This is Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals. Your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello there, Cardinal fans. I am J.D. Hafford and I'm your host for Locked on Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network covering your team every day.

You can follow me on acts of Jadie Sports Radio. You can also follow the podcast at L0 underscore Cardinals. We're also on YouTube. Make sure you like, subscribe and comment, hit the notification button so you don't miss any of our new episodes or the shorts that also get dropped. People seem to be a fan of those as well. And we're available on TikTok. We're on Instagram at Locked on Cardinals. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving the best fans in baseball, all of the info about the birds on the bat.

Thomas Cobain from Redbird Rants.com joining us for his weekly visit. Welcome back, Big Man. How are things in your world on this Tuesday? I'm doing well. My family's all getting healthy. We've been battling the flu the last couple weeks. We all turned a corner. I think we're good for right now.

I say that, you know, yeah, I say that. And then it'll just come right back at you. Hopefully the warm weather that we're all kind of enjoying right now, hopefully it sticks around. Cardinals got curb stomped by the Mets on Monday night in Port St. Lucie, eight to nothing drubbing. It was as miserable as a game as I've seen or listened to all spring. The guys had nothing on offense.

They didn't have much on the mound either. So I want to start with the mound portion of things. Specifically, let's talk about the Cardinals. Number one, Sunny Gray got shelled again on Monday night, four runs on six hits, two more home runs, hit a guy, struck out four and four innings. The home run total now for the spring and two starts, which already, leaves major league baseball at home runs given up in the spring is at five and his numbers across the board in those two starts six and two thirds innings seven runs 10 hits five of them over the

wall a hit by pitch one walk seven strikeouts the er a at nine point four five which is a great relative athletic score if you're an NFL combine guy not so good if you're a pitcher major league baseball. Hitters are hitting 345 against him, Thomas. Now, we can give excuses. It's early. It's spring training. Maybe he's working on some things. But people don't want to hear that, Thomas. They don't. They see the numbers and they go, uh-oh. Uh-oh. I'll put up a poll question on the lockdown Cardinals X page asking fans where their level of concern is for Sunny, whether it's at DefCon 5, which is, he'll be fine. DefCon 3. I'm getting a little sweaty, DefCon 1. We're screwed. And I encourage you guys to all vote if you haven't already.

So I ask you, Thomas, that question. What are you seeing from Sunny? What are you taking away from these first two starts? And how worried are you? I actually just answered that poll before we started up here. I put DefCon 3. I'm a little bit sweaty, mostly because it is just spring training. However, to see him, it's the same thing we talked about with Nolan Gorman and the strikeouts. He's still doing it. we're still seeing Sunny Gray get hit by the home run ball this year. They moved the fences in at Roger Dean. I don't think that's much of a factor. I think he's just getting walloped,

like legitimately smacked around by the home run pitches. He's leaving a lot of things over the plate, which could be something he's working on, precise locations, but you can't throw that many balls in the strike zone if you're trying to get better to not hit home runs. This is true. And both of his starts.

I believe, we've both been on the road. They haven't even been at Roger Dean. I will give him this. I'll throw an excuse out there that maybe you picked up on watching last night's game or in his first start. Both games were in hell of windy conditions where the wind was blowing like crazy out. And I'm not talking a nice little breeze on an afternoon. Like crazy.

Like they kept talking about it in the telecast on Monday night. They were like, look at these flags. Like you get anything up in the air to right field. And you're going to have a good chance at hitting a hundred. home run. And where did all those home runs go last night? They went to right field for the most part for the bet. So, you know, if you want to give them that excuse, that's fine. But yeah, so far, I feel the same way. It's just really missing with your, you know, where you're, you're throwing your pitches. Like they're up and over the plate, which, you know, is bad news.

And even if you're facing guys who aren't majorly hitters and they're, you know, working their way up their double A, AAA, AAA guys. Those guys are going to hit stuff like that, especially when you don't have, you know, the overpowering velocity. You know, if you're not hit in 98, 99, they're going to smack you around a little bit. So your level of concern is just pump the brakes a little bit, but Sunday needs to get the ball down is what we're saying, right? Yeah, I need to see some improvements out of him in the home runs. And we get to the regular season, it could be wholly different. He could be throwing 180 innings, 10 home runs up the season.

and like it could be sunny grave old again. It is just spring training in the end. We just got to let things settle still. Now another name that people are getting a little concerned about is that of Andre Palante, who had another bad outing on Sunday against the Yankees where he gave up four runs on eight hits, two home runs. Opponents are now hitting 412 against Andre in three starts over eight innings. The ERA is at nine.

I've also seen some people chirping about his volonies. being down a little bit compared to what he was doing last year. Where is your level of concern when it comes to Andre Palante right now? Yeah, slightly more than Sunny Gray, probably because he hasn't been around as long. Like Gray's a better in the game. You know he knows how to get himself right, not so much with Andre Palante. The name of his game is getting the ball down, getting ground balls, keeping it in the field to play. He's just been elevating everything.

I know his velocity's down a couple of ticks. That doesn't worry me too much in spring. he'll probably get it up to where it needs to be. But his pitches aren't moving outside of his curveball as much as they were last year, and he's keeping it in the zone too much. Yeah, and that's something I pointed out when watching is, you know, the starts that we've been able to watch is that, you know, the balls that he's missing, it's not like, you know,

every once in a while the hitter is going to win, and it happens. You know, like Soto's home run against Gray. It wasn't a really bad pitch or anything. It's just, Ron Soto's awesome. and he pulled a pitch on the inside half of the plate that was like borderline strike and he just yanked it over the wall and right. So it's going to happen. With Palante, though, these are like big old beach balls coming up there right over the heart of the plate. Those are the ones that are getting tagged on Andre Palante.

Again, location, location, location. Ian Badell, if you want to take it from somebody who's actually pitching professional baseball when I asked him the question about what's more important movement or velocity. and his answer was location overall, both of them, because it doesn't matter if you're over the heart of the plate. And that's bad news for any pitcher. It's not just the guys on the Cardinals. It's anybody in the league. So, yeah, Palante, you saw him in that second start.

It was outstanding. It was just grab ball after grab ball. You know, you're seeing a lot of that from Eric Fetty so far this year, which has been very, very encouraging. So that's what you're looking for. So hopefully, you know, they get it worked out. maybe it's something with release point, whatever. We're working on things, but yes, we're only a couple of weeks away from opening day.

So it's starting to get down to the nitty gritty. There's not so many starts left for these guys in the spring. So it's time to put up or shut up. Fourth and fifth spots in the rotation. There seems to be the competition appears to be Pilate, Matt's McGreevy for those final two spots. If you had to make a decision today, you're Ali. Who are you putting in as your four and five and which one's going to the bullpen? That stipulation there throws me off because I think Ollie's going to go with Palante and Matts.

I would go with Palante and McGreevy and put Matt's in the bullpen. I know Andre's struggling in the spring, but I think he earned himself a spot last year. From June on, he was one of the best pitchers. He probably was the best pitcher on the rotation. And then McGreevy, if we're truly going through this youth movement, we don't need another 34. Is that Matt's 34, 33-year-old starting pitcher, getting however many innings he does, throw out McGreevy, let him get his son. seasoning now, so he's ready in the next couple of years. I think that's who I would pick,

who I think Ollie would pick would probably be Matt Simponte. One thing I thought about, too, is like when you look at the rotation, the way it is right now, if you don't put mats in the rotation, no left handers, none in the starting rotation, which makes the job a little bit easier on the opposing team and manager knowing like who's going to be in and who's going to be out and stuff. So I wonder if that will play a role in anything, just something to think about when everybody is right-handed. So we'll discuss the offense, which manages three measly hits on Monday night. We'll talk about them and their struggles next on lockdown cardinals.

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leave your comments on YouTube as well as on X. Anytime you want that feedback is always welcome and encourage. Make sure you guys are giving Thomas Govain a follow at Thomas Govain on X as well. And reading up on his stuff at RedbirdRance.com, we're going to get to one of his latest pieces here in just a moment. But first, let's get back to the bitching and the whining a little bit, Thomas. Let's talk about this offense, which struggled last year. We all know about that.

Gorbin and Walker never progressed. Goldianato were shells of their former MVP selves. Contreras was hurt at the season. Edmund, hurt, then traded, new hurt, per usual. The offseason, they bring in Bram Brown to help turn things around, give them a new voice, you know, in regard to hitting. But so far this spring, not a lot of progress that we've seen thus far. The Cardinals are batting 209 as a team this spring,

which go ahead, take a guess, Thomas. Where is that ranked among MLB teams in spring training? We go 29. I'm going to give you last. Dead last. It's 209. They've got 110 hits. Where do you think that ranks? Dead last. Dead last. That is a correct answer. They've also scored 72 runs, which is tied for 25th. 19 home runs tied for 13th. Now, they are walking a lot, which is something that I will always appreciate. I love patience at the plate. It bothers me every time. I don't care if it's spring trade.

when these guys try to ambush a first pitch and they hit a ground ball or a pop out, I want to go strangle them because it drives me nuts. Like they don't make these pitchers work and it, it pisses me off, to be honest with you. I don't understand it. I don't like it. They are walking a lot. They're tied for fifth in Major League Baseball for walks, 135 strikeouts. They weren't a big strikeout team last year, despite what we had from Gorman,

fourth lowest total so far. Last night's 13 strikeout effort didn't help the cause. But slugging an OPS, 27th, on base percentage is 24th. It's been bad. And some of your top guys, guys that you're depending on to really carry you, have not done much this spring, Thomas. Aronado's at 160. Mason Wynn is hitting 103.

Vernon Donovan at 150. Jordan Walker, before he got hurt, 143. Pedro Pahas, 167. Michael Hellman is betting 71. and then my guy Michael Siani, 40, 40. He has not looked good at all. How worried are you about these guys now that we're a couple of weeks into spring training? Are the alarms going off for you?

Yeah, a little bit on a couple of them. Mason Wynn probably makes my list at this point as a player who I'm worried about. I don't think he would have been last week, but I think he at this point is becoming a worrisome player. Aronado, I don't know. He's a guy. I trust veterans. And I think he knows what he needs to do to get himself ready for the season, whether it is production we had last year from him or if he's trying to go back a couple years.

I would imagine he's working on stuff. Gorman has been getting better this last week and a half or so. What really worries me is. I don't mean to cut you off. Seeing Nolan Gorman take better at Batch, you can see the confidence is getting up there. I'm pretty sure he had another hit last night. So I think I'd make six straight games that he's got.

Base not. And the strikeouts have come down. He whipped again last night, which, so what? Like, it's not like it was where it was like three times a game or anything. So very encouraged for Nolan Gorman right now. Yeah. What really worries me isn't necessarily the players at this point. It's what the roster's decisions will be. If Michael Siani is chosen, honestly, at this point, if he's your fourth outfielder, that worries me too. I'd almost rather have Matt Keperniak take over Siani's spot. Like, if we're going to roll out a guy who are to 64 WRC plus last year, who's batting 040 this year. It's like we can't consider ourselves competitive into that kind of move. I agree.

And I know that that's not his game and his game is defense. His game is, you know, base pass getting some speed and running out there. But you got to get something. Like you can't just be a black hole. Beat the Mendoza line. Yeah. Just beat the Mendoza line at plus defense and steal 20 bases a year. That's a lot.

And I keep going back too because I think about like, you know, because we were impressed by what Siani gave the team last year considering where he was on the depth chart. But let's not forget, there was a reason why that's where he was on the depth chart last year where he wasn't expected to be on this team. And yeah, he surprised some people. We had some fun with it. He made some cool catches. But he's never been a good hitter at any of the levels that he's made. I mean, there's a reason why the Reds let him, made him available. So, you know, this obsession with him because of his defense from last year, I just, I just don't understand how, like, and I'm with you where, and this is going to get to your grievances thing here is where some of the decisions the Cardinals make, they just don't seem to be in the best interest of winning sometimes where they just were trying to make people happy instead.

This airing of grievances thing that we're talking about, something you put out at Redbirdrants.com. It's something that, you know, a lot of fans, they want to do. They want to bring up the issues and things that have bothered them over the last couple of seasons. We're going to link that, you know, story in the description for everyone to read in full. But it's your story, man. Tell us some of your thoughts on why you did this piece and what were some of the things that you brought up in.

Yeah, so it's done from, it was Katie Wu's piece. I think it was last week on Friday. She talked about some of the roster battles and some of the, and things that are coming out. She mentioned how Maths is pretty much a lock for the rotation, and they've got Plante McGreevy. I was like, what I asked, why are we doing these things? It's been two bad years. I know we're going into a youth transition, but then I thought, are we actually going to do the youth transition with who we're playing? So I just decided to throw all my thoughts out there, get it published, air my grievances, get it off my chest. Most of my frustration comes in

mixed messaging from the front office. And that's something we, been seeing for the last two years. You say you do one thing, you do a different thing, or you don't do anything. And I know that John Moseilock was handcuffed with the no trade clauses. He went to Sunny Gray. He went to Wilson Contreras. He went to Norma. Away those no trade clauses to start.

Exactly. Yeah. It felt like the guy came up on his front door and said, hey, I got a no trade clause, but, you know, I want to play for it. No, they did it. It's their fault. Right. Yeah. And I'm sure, like, I don't know, Contreras and Gray could still be traded. Aronado might still be traded too, But this was the offseason where we were supposed to see a real change and a real turn and direction, and it hasn't been happening.

We still see the same guys we saw last year. I know the teams are slightly younger this year, but we're not seeing the players we need to. My other frustration came in, the roster decisions, primarily catcher and center field. Are we really going to roll out Michael Siani when we needed offense last year? I know Victor Scott had a tough offensive year last year. I know he was hot in the spring. He's hot in spring this year. But he should probably be mentioned as a guy who gets 500 at bats at this point,

and we see what he can do in the majors. The same thing with Ivan Herrera. Why are we throwing out Pedro Pahey's behind the plate for 60% of the games like we did last year, when it should probably be Herrera. He shouldn't catch every game. No one should catch every game. But he should get the bulk of the innings at catcher. You look at Alec Berluson, one of our best offensive players last year.

he absolutely obliterated right-handed pitchers. Where is his spot on the team next year? He's just blocked everywhere you look. He's blocked at first base with contraris. He's blocked in the outfield of Brendan Donovan and Lars Nupar. The way the roster has been constructed these last two years has just been abysmal. There have been trades that John Moseil could have made with Ryan Helsley and Eric Fetty. Ryan Hesley himself said that he was 99% sure he'd be traded.

Every interview that he has done this spring has been, you know, especially with with national media. And they're all like, you know, what were your thoughts? He was like, I didn't think I'd be here. I'm a little bit shocked that I am here, but I like it here. It's not that I don't like it. I figured that this was what was going to happen. And that's a guy who didn't have a no trade clause.

And they hung on to it. Right. I've given reasons why I think they held on to Helsley. I don't think the, the market was what they thought it was going to be. I feel what the Yankees gave up for Devin Williams was a little bit light. So if they were getting less than what the Yankees gave for Evan Williams and I can see why they're like, well, maybe we should just, you know, risk it and wait until the trade deadline. And I feel like that may be the thing going on with Eric Fetty, too,

was that maybe they weren't all that pleased with things that they were getting offered in return and were like, well, then screw you. I'll just, I'll just hang on to them and we'll see how it all unfolds and see how the demand is at the trade deadline. But it's a risk. It's a risk for sure. It is. Well, and you see all these injuries now with pitchers, the Mets, the Yankees, the Orioles. Like Eric Fetty's value is going up. So it's probably best at Mozaella point. It was just so, like, everything we heard at the end of last season, throughout the off season was youth, youth, time for those guys.

We're going to rebuild the farm system. Like, Cardinals have a very bad farm system at the moment. They've had a very bad farm system since 2021 when Mason went and Jordan Walker graduated. Like, the core recuperation is not there in the pipeline. It's not at the Major League roster. Like, I think we're just staring down the barrel of two, three, more 80 win seasons. And it seems to be that everybody in ownership and front offices at the moment, just fine with that. And that kind of frustrates me as a fan who's been here for as long as

I have been. I'm not around as many of the other fans, but it's still frustrating. Yeah, it is because you see some of these other teams. And sure, spending money doesn't always guarantee that you're going to win. But damn, it helps. It sure does help when you go and spend just a little bit more. I mean, to cut back to where it is and tell the fans, well, just be patient with us. I feel like this is three years of patience so far. And, you know, not seeing much of a progression yet is annoying. And, you know, they're going to catch it in the butt when they see the turnstiles. Like I was online this weekend looking at opening day tickets to see if I could find something for my mom or something.

And I was amazed at how many seats are still available for a Cardinals opening day, which never happens. Like those things sell out, blink of an eye, no seat to be found. I could be right there by home plate if I wanted to. I'm not going to pay for that. But, you know, there were some really good. I was like, oh, my gosh, people really are like, nope, not doing it. And it's sad. It's sad to see.

And to hear some of these national telecasts, you know, when they're airing these spring training games and the way their broadcasters talk about the Cardinals. And it's just kind of like, oh, my gosh. Like everybody's like, this is just a, they just don't have a lot going for them. And, you know, me and you try to see the positive side of things. But, I mean, reality is what it is. You know, if these guys like Walker and Gorman don't work out, this team's not going to be very good. If Andre Belante doesn't work out or. or if Sunny Gray struggles, they're going to be really, really bad this year.

Ryan Helsley gets hurt. Like, there's just the list of ifs on this season is far too long for my comfort. The Cardinals used to be an organization where you had a lot of promises and assurances and guarantees in the lineup up and down. There were guys who you didn't know what we're going to do. There were guys who would get hurt, but there was always a backup for it. There's always a filler who was as close to as good as them as we could get. And that just doesn't seem to be the case. And then you look at the fact that we're the only team that hasn't spent major league money in free agency.

That's embarrassing at that point. Like we have Nick Anderson, go spend $5 million on someone who's a real legitimate reliever. Or Jose Cantana, who was four points. Like there are guys out there we could have spent even just $5 million on who would have made this team better. The good teams that run their ships well, like the Milwaukee Brewers, go get a Jose Cantana. They're like, take them. Nobody wants this guy. All right, we'll take them.

Like I, it was mind boggling to me how that he's still out there on the market. And then you go see and I feel like it's funny is that like, you know, the last year they signed three guys and, you know, Sunny Gray was like the big guy. But then it's like Lenin Gibson and nobody wants these guys either. They're free agents. And it's like that's right. We were so like, last year when you signed them because these guys aren't they don't move the needle and they don't do it on the field either. So it was it was very bizarre. last year to see it. And now you're seeing like what people thought of those guys this year,

where it's going to take an injury or two that's going on with like those teams you mentioned for Gibson and Linda to find a home if they do at all. So yeah, it's a bad time. And, you know, we got our fingers crossed that things will be better than the other people are seeing it. But you can see how people outside of this organization are thinking that it's going to be a really, really tough year for the Cardinals. So we want to get to some fan feedback next. We got a couple of questions that has to do with some of the roster spots you brought up. So we'll get to that next with Thomas Gauvain on Locked on Cardinals. March Madness is here.

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Thomas Govain from Redbird Grants.com. us again here. I've got a couple questions for you from the fan base before we let you go. Chances that Lucan Baker makes this team. I'm a big Baker fan. I'm rooting for the big guy. Seems like he has never gotten a real shot despite his numbers at AAA. He's got three home runs, which leads the club this spring. He's got seven ribbies, which guess what leads the club this spring. He's also hitting 304. He's one of the few guys that's actually doing something offensively. but then there's this case that he can't play anywhere else except D.H. in first base.

So what do we do, Thomas? Can Lukan make the roster? Absolutely. I think he'd be a nice bench bat against a lefty reliever late in games. He could spell Contreras at first if there's a lefty that's starting, and Wilson just wants to move to D.H. for a day. I think he has a spot. I don't think he'll get over 300 at-bats,

but he'll do the absolute most possible with those 250 at-bats that he could do. He's a very useful bench bat that serves the purpose well. I'd love to see him out there. I think he's fought through the minors. Let's give him some time. He feels like a guy that if the Cardinals don't hang on to him, he's going to go somewhere else and DH, kind of like Luke Voight and go off.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought of, yeah. Like where he's going to go out. He's like, we can't find a spot for him. All right, somebody else will and stick his bat in the lineup. And he's going to produce for them for, and he's not going to be a superstar or anything. He's going to be solid, and I feel like the cardals are going to waste him if they don't let him stay on this roster. We talked a little bit about Victor Scott and Michael Ciani in that battle.

Is there any way that both of them are on the opening day rock? I hope not. Why do we need two defense first center fielder's that both had left-handed? No, if I have my pick, I'd put Scott in the center opening day, Coperniac as the fourth outfielder, and then Michael Siani somewhere else in the world. Yeah, yeah. Memphis sounds like a good place for Siani to start the year. Your choices, this is a good one because if there has been something that's been pretty darn positive throughout the spring, the bullpen, again, has been very, very good this spring. They were great last year.

I think Ali did a really good job maneuvering them last year. I think it was underrated how well he used the bullpen. And you've got Helsley, you got Romero, Libertor, Fernandez, and. King, those guys are in. Who do you have filling out the rest of the bullpen there? So if you got your five starters, one of them will go back there. So that gives you, let's say, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. So you got two spots, basically, to round out your 13 and your staff.

So who would you give those final two spots to? Because it's kind of a, it's going to be a tough decision, I think. Yeah, if you only have got two spots, I think it's got to be Kyle Leahy and Chris Rourcroft. they've been doing really well. If you can shift McGreevy to AAA, that gives you another spot. Roderry Munoz would be an interesting pick there for that third spot.

I also think there's an outside shot that it's either Toccoa Robi or Gordon Grecipo. Between those two, I'd pick Grecipo, just because I think Toccoa Robi has a higher shot at a starter than Gricepho does. I've loved Grycepho's offseason work at Tread. I think that he, I listened to his interview with Katie Wu. He seems like a really humble guy who's just willing to do what the team needs. So if I get three shots, I'll go Leahy, Grosseffo, and Roycroft. If I only get two, I think it'll be Leahy and Roycroft.

Yeah, and so Riley O'Brien, out of the picture for you, huh? Yeah, I don't know that he's, oh, the stuff is so tantalizing, but man, the walks are out there. He's getting hit pretty hard lately still. No? All right. Yeah, Roderie Munoz is the guy that I'm like, I'm putting a little star next to his name. Yes. Yeah, I've been very impressed with, I want to be.

I want to see him like pitch earlier in games where he's going up against major league guys instead of coming in later where, you know, he's facing these AAA dudes. But I want to give him another shot. I would like to see that. I have no problems with Gersethel and Roby going down to start the year. I know it's fun to have them. And I just, I'd rather see Roby stretched out and be a starter and let him continue that path. But yeah, you got Munoz, you got a brine, you got Roycroft, Leahy. Lutos has been good too.

So you've got some choices to make, man. It's going to be a tough battle for the rest of the spring, which is what it's all about. You know, that's the fun stuff of spring is seeing some of these battles play out. All right. Thank you for making a lockdown cardinals. First listen every day.

If you haven't already, give us a follow on X and L.O. underscore Cardinals and the JD Sports Radio. You can find us on TikTok as well. Like to subscribe on YouTube if you don't mind. Follow Thomas. By the way, Thomas Govain. Make sure you're following him on X as well. he's very much on the X.

It was a bad day yesterday when it was all broken for a while. That was annoying. Yeah, I didn't know what to do with myself. Especially because you have the NFL news coming down too. And everybody's like, what happened? Or I'll lose it in mind. Yeah, make sure you give Thomas a follow on there as well. You were doing a fun little thing with the grid stuff.

So I hope you can send you that because that was pretty entertaining. Yeah, we finished it up yesterday. Also, I promise the listeners will be optimistic next time. This was a tough episode. We'll do positives next week. Hey, we're just telling you what a lot of other people are thinking, too. So hopefully we'll turn it around. Maybe this week will be even brighter and they'll start hitting and everybody's going to

and we'll be in a better mood come next week. All right, guys. Well, thank you, Thomas. And thank you guys for joining us. You're the best fans of baseball for a reason. We'll see you next time on Lockdown Cardinals.