Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis Cardinals OFFSEASON Overhaul Begins as Arenado and Gray TRADE Talks Heat Up

Starting point is 00:00:00 injuries, prospects, free agents, trades. It is the off season for the St. Louis Cardinals. We dive into all of it today with Jeff Jones on today's episode of Locked on Cardinals. You are Locked on Cardinals, your daily St. Louis Cardinals podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hey there, Cardinals fans. I'm J.D.E. Hapford, a former national radio sports anchor, born and raised in St. Louis, Lifetime Cardinals fan. I'm your host for Lockdown Cardinals, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network.

Starting point is 00:00:34 your team every day. A big thank you to our everydayers for joining us throughout the season and end of the off season for those of you who are new. Welcome aboard. We hope you enjoy the Cardinals content. This is a show serving Cardinal Nation and giving you all the info about the birds on the bat. Today's episode brought to you by Fandul. Right now, new customers can bet just $5. And if you bet wins, you'll get $300 and bonus bets to use across the app. So download the app today. Today's episode, we're all about picking the brain of reporter Jeff Jones, who covers the Carls for the Melville News Democrat, which you can subscribe to at B&D.com. Jeff, a big thank you for hanging out with us today.

Starting point is 00:01:10 How's the offseason been treating you so far? Things have been a little quiet for the Cardinals, so hopefully you've been relaxing a little bit. Yeah, slow as expected. You know, I think we're all kind of anticipating here in the next week or so, things to start picking up as the World Series comes to an end and free agency gets open. The Cardinals are going to be all that busy in there. But, you know, there are things to happen here. And what are we?

Starting point is 00:01:31 Six weeks away from the start of the winter meeting. so there's progress here on the horizon. Now, now we've gotten a ton of emails and comments from fans since the end of the season, and you and I haven't had a chance to catch up with since the season ended. So I wanted to get your thoughts on a lot of these topics that are on the minds of Cardinals Nation. I want to start with what you may or may not have heard on the trade front with guys like Nolan Aronado and Sunny Gray. It's the names they brought up the most.

Starting point is 00:01:59 I know we're in the downtime for the teams. Like you mentioned, things aren't going to pick up for. a little while to the winter meetings get going in November. But in your guesstimation, how likely is it that one or both of them are actually on this roster for opening day in 2026? I think that Nolan Arnato is going to be traded this winter. And I'll caveat this by saying I had every expectation. They would figure it out last winter and they somehow didn't seem to, which I think shocked

Starting point is 00:02:23 pretty well everybody. But everybody is acting as though this is going to be probably the end of the road here. And I think as well, when you kind of look at the way that his performance, months went this season, it lends him to sort of have to open up that no trade list a little bit. The Cardinals pretty motivated here. And again, we should not forget that one more year of commitment and, you know, whatever, $35 million fell off the deal over the last year, right? So these are all things that make it a little easier to find a deal this winter. Sunny Gray, obviously, is a little bit more complicated one. I will say, I think the Cardinals are telling the truth

Starting point is 00:02:57 when they say that they would be comfortable with him returning as part of their starting rotation. if for no other reason, then there just aren't that many bodies who are going to be available to them that they have in house that can do that. But I do think they would probably rather find a deal for him than not. You know, what does that look like in terms of what kind of meets his expectations? You know, there was reporting at the end of the season about San Francisco. Maybe that made a little sense when you were talking about the possibility of Bob Melvin being there, obviously with Melvin being fired, replaced with Tony Vitello. Is that different?

Starting point is 00:03:28 You know, I actually, I don't know whether Sony, who. lives in Nashville and Vitella have a relationship or not. But that would obviously be part of that conversation as well. You know, there's always the conversation to be had about Atlanta. Cincinnati maybe is difficult, both in terms of the money and in terms of trading him inside of the division, maybe that shouldn't matter if the Cardinals don't view themselves as a sincere contender in 2026. But, you know, it is at least variable.

Starting point is 00:03:53 So while I think it is harder to sort of identify what the fit looks like for Sunny Gray, I do think that the Cardinals will, if not aggressively do so, they will at least be motivated to find out if for no other reason than, you know, when the trade deadline rolls around, they might be revisiting some of those conversations. Now, in the case of the rotation, let's pretend things work out, sunny sticks around, okay? You keep him in the fold. You have Libertor, you got McGreevy, so there's three of your five spots. It appears at Kyle Leahy is going to get a shot at one of those spots as well, that they're going to stretch him out. see what he can offer. Andre Palante is still here too. In your opinion, do you see the team looking outside the organization to fill a potential rotation spot, say something doesn't work out with Leahy or, you know,

Starting point is 00:04:43 Palanti still hasn't figured out how to get anybody out? Well, yeah. They think they would step outside the organization for something like that? Or do you think, as you mentioned, like an in-house type of fix would be more what they would try for first? I do expect them to add an outside starting picture or two. You know, it would not shock me to say they got one via trade, one via free agency. That would seem to fit just about right.

Starting point is 00:05:09 You know, in terms of what that looks like, I don't expect him to be shopping at the top of the market, right? Like I don't anticipate, for example, Dylan C. skiing in St. Louis Cardinal on opening day, unless something crazy worth to happen with his market where maybe he takes a one-year deal and yada, yada, yada. So, you know, I think it's probably more going to be, if not in like the Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn sort of area. Probably. A little younger than that, maybe, you know, a little more you can fix. I think a name that stands out that makes sense to me is a guy like Kyle Freeland, who probably has to take a one-year deal, is coming up a couple of really dreadful years in Colorado.

Starting point is 00:05:46 You think maybe there's a little bit of Colorado tax there. You think maybe a pitching development group could see a thing or two that might get him right. And, you know, Freeland might be a popular guy because there are going to be a lot of teams. They're going to say, well, get him out of Colorado, out of that environment and away from that system. And he probably has a lot more to offer. But someone like that who would be kind of in that one-year range. And then it's, you know, is there a starting pitcher that makes sense in a trade as they look to kind of simplify this roster a little bit. And that's entirely possible.

Starting point is 00:06:14 We certainly are going to look for fits like that, you know, a starter with some kind of control, who has a little bit of track record, but obviously be very a very true. for them if they're going to look at moving some of these kind of, you know, arguably redundant position players. One of the names that has been brought up is a guy that, you know, he's coming off kind of a down year, but it's probably going to have a pretty good market is former Cardinals prospect, Zach Gallen. There's been some predictions that he could get anywhere between a three year to a five-year

Starting point is 00:06:44 deal. You don't see the Cardinals, you know, because Hime mentioned that, you know, if we see something that fits an investment opportunity, we might be interested in that. You don't see them probably doing that in this particular offseason, though, where, you know, if the price is right, they can go three to five years for somebody. I would be pretty surprised if they were to sign a free agent starter to a multi-year deal. I think they're probably talking much more in kind of the one year. Can they bounce back? Is it a case where it's a guy where it's a one year at a high dollar?

Starting point is 00:07:15 And if it works out, then great. And then you look at an extension. Or is it more like a one year. This is a guy they're going to trade at the deadline. you know, the Phil Meaton of starting pitchers, that to me seems much more likely to kind of be where they would be shopping. Two names I want to bring up real quick, just your thoughts. Dustin May and Walker Bueller, guys that, you know, got moved, things didn't work out,

Starting point is 00:07:37 they go somewhere else, things got a little bit better, especially for Bueller who ended up with Philly. Would either of those names be somebody you think the Cardinals might be interested? May, maybe. Again, that's going to be one where they're going to have to look at the medical and just see, you know, do they think that he has enough in there that with another off-season, another bit of rest that it looks, you know, it looks right. Bueller makes less sense to me, both because it's not clear to, like, if Walker Bueller is signing with the Cardinals, it's because the money was better here than it was anywhere else.

Starting point is 00:08:09 And if that is the case, then it seems unlikely that they would want to spend that amount of money, right? And he also, like, he had better results in Philly for sure, but he just kind of looked cooked the whole season, and just looked like maybe he was done. And maybe he's not. Maybe he goes somewhere that's able to turn him into, you know, the lesser, you know, or a less high octane version of himself kind of help him mature as a pitcher in that way. Maybe so.

Starting point is 00:08:32 I don't really see that as a fit in St. Louis. Okay. The bullpen is another area that's going to require some tweaking, if you will. It's not like they need to be rebuilt or anything. So when we come back, we're going to talk to Jeff about the bullpen and his most recent article on some young arms that could make a difference for the team. in 2026. This is locked on Cardinals. The NBA is back and there's no better place to get in on the action than Fandall,

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Starting point is 00:10:00 also available on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram and Lockedown Cardinals. joined by Jeff Jones, who covers the Cardinals for the Belleville News Democrat. Jeff, in an article you recently wrote just the other day you put it out. If you guys haven't read it yet, I got the link in the description for you and in the show notes. So be sure to check it out for yourself. But you talk about some of the younger pitching prospects that the Cardinals have who, you know, some people may not know these names, you know. It's kind of a deeper dive that you went in there because some of the bigger names that people may have heard of.

Starting point is 00:10:30 some of them are injured anyway so they can't help us much in 2026 but so who are some of those names that you mentioned and what kind of role do you see them possibly having for the team this upcoming season yeah so the three guys they wrote about were louisca stella um austin love and odanya mosqueda um you know none of these are super particularly deep cults i think i think gastlel in particular has gotten a lot of attention here over the last couple of years on prospect lists. The reason I point them out, and this is a thing that, you know, when you sort of look at the through line of the guys, the Cardinals have sort of identified as useful pieces of their bullpen, right? Because I think that one thing that they have really sincerely done well over the last

Starting point is 00:11:11 couple of years is identify some of those internal options that they already had and turn those guys into productive relievers. And, you know, we hear them talk about it in the context of, like, what is your superpower, right? Like, what is the thing that they can do that that really makes them stand out. And if there are guys that have, say, like, one of those characteristics, then they've looked into them becoming really productive relievers. And so, you know, in Gastellum's case, this is a guy who has kind of like a devastating changeup, you know, ranked among one of the better ones in the minor league for people who evaluate these sorts of things. And that has kind of been his tool that creates a lot of swing and miss for him.

Starting point is 00:11:46 That's obviously a little bit unusual to be a Riding Reliever who lean so heavily on the changeup. But, you know, there are examples of this Tommy Cayley, for example, a guy who's had a long and productive big league career just throwing changeups all the time. Guestellum is a little more, a little more even in the mix for now. We'll see as he develops and kind of moves up the organization, what that looks like. I would expect him to be at Big League Spring Training, and we'll see how many looks he gets. You know, if I think you remember about spring training is getting invited is great, but you also have to get an opportunity.

Starting point is 00:12:16 You know, Matt Svanson, who's a guy I wrote about as a comparable here, was on the 49 roster last year, right? So he's at Big League Spring and really didn't get. that many looks in game action especially early, but the reports kept coming back good from the back field. And, you know, there were there were guys who were identifying him as someone would be worth watching and he got that bump up. You know, Austin Love is a guy who was an early draft pick,

Starting point is 00:12:37 I believe a third round draft pick in 2021 or 22. I'd have to wait, you know, in one of those two years, who was an older guy, a little more advanced in his development. And had come up as a starter and blew out, right, got hurt, missed a better part of two seasons. and just didn't have an opportunity to really show what he had. Comes back last year he's healthy. He goes from the rotation to the bullpen,

Starting point is 00:13:00 and he just rips sliders all year and generates a bunch of strikes out, a bunch of strikeouts, right, and carves guys up and is able to sort of lean into that really powerful pitch that let him kind of move up. And again, this is a guy who pitched in college. He's a little older. He's got a little more going on in the kind of maturity standpoint. If he can get guys out, they're going to let him get guys out. and he's going to be a guy who you might see climb up.

Starting point is 00:13:24 Mosqueda is a guy who I think we were a little surprised we didn't see at the end of the season in the big leagues last year. You know, we saw Nick Rakeh kind of get that opportunity and pitch twice in Seattle and look fine. It's good as you can look in two innings or whatever it was. But Moskeda, you know, doesn't have the overwhelming stuff. His thing is that he's a big mixed guy can throw four or five pitches to, you know, to hitters from either side of the plate.

Starting point is 00:13:48 The other thing that stands out about Moskata is, is that it's helpful to have people hire in the organization who have been following you and who sort of have a belief in what you can do, right? Mosqueda is a guy that the Cardinals got in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It took him from the Yankees, but he spent only one year with the Yankees before that. It was like seven seasons going back to when he was 18 in the Boston system. So he was there with Hime Bloom and when the Cardinals snatched him up. It was because Blumen had had a voice into those conversations and knew some of the prospects

Starting point is 00:14:18 in the Boston system with which he was familiar. and who he thought had a lot of upside, which is all to say that if the boss is already looking at Muscat or has historical look at him as a guy who has interesting tools, and that probably puts him in a pretty good position, especially as a lefty, to be a guy who gets a chance to contribute to the big league bullpen. Yeah, and let's be honest,

Starting point is 00:14:37 we could use another left-hander in the pen. You know, John King, Jojo Romero. Romero's been mentioned as possible trade option as well at some point. So, you know, adding another left-hander would be kind of nice. Bolpin arms, there's quite a few of them that are going to be on the free agent market. Jim Bowden from the Athletic had the Cardinals linked to three guys. I want to get your opinion on this. Yeah, Brad Keller from the Cubs, Luke Weaver from the Yankees,

Starting point is 00:15:03 Cal Finnegan from Detroit. Do you see any other, because they had that success with the filmaton signing this past year. It was a guy that, you know, was looking for a good fit, found it, and ended up turning that into what seems like is going to be a multi-year deal for him at some point. Do you see any of those three guys being a nice fit for the car, Cardinals. And if they landed one of them, who do you think would be the more likely guy of those three to be a part of the Cardinals' fulpin next year? So I will say going outside of those three, I do think like Phil Maton himself is a real candidate to return to this team this off season. I don't know that I think where Phil's at in his career kind of with his age and his career path, a multi-year deal would be great for him.

Starting point is 00:15:42 I don't know that it's necessarily in the off thing. And so if it's going to be a series of one-year deals, I know the Cardinals would be very interested in bringing him back. They, you know, they talk about both him and Andrew Kittridge as guys where they felt like they really benefit. And I'd have to look up the exact phrasing, but Hyme Bloom doesn't have to be effective. We benefited from having an old guy down there, right, in the bullpen to kind of help these guys come along. So I think they would definitely look at a guy like that. You know, the thing that stands out about the three guys that you named, you know, Weaver obviously has a little bit of history here. But in terms of him and Keller and Finnegan is those are three guys that, to me, would be looking at situations where, is there a team they can sign with on, say, a one-year deal as a closer, right,

Starting point is 00:16:25 where they can rack up some sage and either go into free agency, get themselves a better deal or be more appealing at the deadline? Or, you know, can they get a little money out because they're a guy who can pitch the ninth? And that's really interesting when you look at what the Cardinals are likely to run back in the bullpen after the winter, right? You know, you mentioned the possibility that Romero could be traded. He's got one more year of control. He's been kind of elite as a left-side reliever, you know, sneaky elite. one of the like six or seven best left year relievers in all the baseball for the last three years.

Starting point is 00:16:55 And so if that's the case, is this a team that benefits most from hanging on to him or from trading him? You know, you could make the argument certainly that the trade is the way to go there. And if that's the case, then who is pitching the ninth for this team? You would probably say that it's Riley O'Brien, who, you know, was really great for the half of the year that he pitched, but does not have an awesome injury history. is older than you think he is, right? O'Brien is going to be 31 next season. And, you know, we'll see. Matt Sonson certainly could be a candidate for that.

Starting point is 00:17:26 We'll see what happens with Leahy. Just wants him become a guy who slides into kind of that Leahy spot where he is pitching against righties and lefties and he's getting five, six out to the time, maybe. And, you know, they really, I think, benefited from having that option, you know, from having Leahy be that guy for all of last year, which is a long way around to saying there is a possibility that this is a place where you could sign a veteran reliever with the possibility that he would compete to pitch the ninth, right?

Starting point is 00:17:50 Like the Cardinals have closing options in house and it would not shock me in the slightest if that's sort of what they went into the season with. But a guy like Kyle Finnegan who has a history of racking up saves on some bad snatch on some bad Nats teams, that is a guy who to me makes a lot of sense because if I'm representing him, what I'm looking for is a situation where he can earn some of those looks and then get himself a little more down. the line. And to me, the Cardinals fit as a team like that. Other closers that people have asked about, obviously people are intrigued whether or not they would kick the tires on bringing Ryan Helsley back after things didn't quite work out so well for him with New York. Maybe he comes back to St. Louis for things

Starting point is 00:18:31 were more comfortable or even St. Louis native, Devin Williams, who also had a tough time when he was with the Yankees. I would think that the market for Devin Williams, there's still going to be some teams that are quite interested in him and are like, well, this guy was pretty elite recently, but so was Ryan Helsley. Do you think the Cardinals would have any interested in neither of those guys? So I know that Ryan Helsley would have interest in the Cardinals, right, I guess as the way to phrase that. I don't, that market is going to be fascinating to me because I think that very clearly there are teams that he would help and very clearly teams where he would be kind of a sizable upgrade for them. It's, it's tricky to find a spot because to me,

Starting point is 00:19:11 you know, the thing with Helsley watching and pitch for the Mets that was immediately apparent is that the Mets just sort of disregarded the things that made him successful for a couple of years here, right? Like he pitched on a very strict, you know, Lord knows we heard about a lot. He can only pitch so often and he only pitches the ninth and it's never one plus. Yeah. But that all worked, right? Like, he got guys out when he was doing that. And the other thing is that he pitched backward for the better part of two seasons. Like he could throw the slider much more comfortably for strikes than he could the fastball.

Starting point is 00:19:41 and he would throw the fastball to chase locations off of the breaking ball in the zone. And so by trying to reverse that the way the Mets did, all of the sudden, he's grooving fastballs that are getting crushed or he's walking the world. And they just, they did not deploy him in a way that made, like, the way that they used him made me wonder who they thought they were trading for. It really, like, it really didn't make sense the way that he was used there. So, you know, sure, maybe. And I, you know, if he doesn't have a better market somewhere where he can get more than the Cardinals are offering him, that would surprise me a little bit. Evan Williams, I think, is in a similar boat to Finnegan in terms of maybe he sees a set opportunity as a place where he could get a bunch of saves. I do think there are probably going to be teams out there who maybe view him, you know, as a little more of a, a little more of a sure thing.

Starting point is 00:20:34 I wonder about the Cubs, for instance, right, having known that he had a lot of success in the NL Central. and as good as Palencia was, not really having like a stable closer there. You know, that that's a team that I'd wonder about for Williams. So again, I don't know that I don't think that either is really a fit. Maybe Williams fits a little better than Helsley just in terms of where they're at in their careers and kind of what the market's going to look like. All right. We're going to switch up gears and talk about the offense, the impact of this large nupear injury.

Starting point is 00:21:05 Brendan Donovan trade rumors. We're going to get to all of this with Jeff Jones coming up next year. on lockdown cardinals. Today's episode being brought to you by prize picks. You and I, we make decisions every single day. But on prize picks, being right, can actually get you paid, which is what you want. More money. Don't miss any of the excitement during this sports season, whether you're following the NFL,

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Starting point is 00:22:31 your first $5 lineup. Price Picks, it's good to be right. Thanks again for making Locktown Cardinals your first listen every day for your second list and check out Locktime MLB game night. every game every night until the World Series champion is crowned. You'll get local analysis, but on a national scale. You can find it on the lockdown. It will be YouTube channel wherever you listen to your podcast. Jeff Jones from the Belleville News Democrat covers the Cardinals for them is with us here today. Appreciate him coming in and answering all our questions for him.

Starting point is 00:23:04 Check out his work at B&D.com if you haven't already. Let's talk some offense, injuries, trades, all kind of in a little mix here, Jeff. Lars Newpar, double heel surgery. Sounds awful. Sounds painful. Not sure if he's going to be ready for opening day. Do the Cardinals look elsewhere for a bat? Or do you think once again, we just have this in-house band-aid fix

Starting point is 00:23:24 because Newt's not expected to be out a long time past opening day as of right now? Yeah. So I do think obviously the surgery is significant, right? Opening day from the surgery date is right about six months. The fact that right now what they're saying is they're not, the fact that they're not saying they're not ruling out opening day. as opposed to, well, you know, the way that they're phrasing it does not suggest to me that they're very confident that opening day is going to be when he's going to be there. I think certainly you would expect him to not compete in the World Baseball Classic again this year, given kind of the timeline of all of that.

Starting point is 00:24:00 I think they're going to look outside the organization regardless. I think they're going to look to get more right-handed, especially in the outfield. I think they're going to have to have kind of, you know, a real long consideration about what they want to do with this collection of left-handed bats. You know, I think ironically, I could imagine them going from like an overload of left-handed bats in the infield and kind of the corner outfield to very few of those guys still being left when kind of the dust settles this winter. So, you know, the new part situation is going to be a tough one because this is not a surgery that has a whole lot of precedent behind it. As far as I can tell, the only known big leaguer to have this surgery, you know, the bilateral shade down on the heels was you know an assessment is who never really came back from it. now that was part of he stepped in a hole like wrangling a bore on his ranch or something and shattered his ankle right uh so you know there were some of there was some extenuated circumstances and then

Starting point is 00:24:52 a pandemic happened and yada yada uh but there really aren't a lot of guys you can point to that are kind of examples of of a successful rehab of this so you know the question about whether they can trade new bar this winter is going to depend on how comfortable another team is going to be with those medicals and what, you know, what the real timeline looks like, you know, if they're telling us opening day isn't ruled out, does that mean their actual expectation is April 15th? Does it May 1st? Is it Memorial Day? I don't, I don't know. I don't think any of us really have a good handle on that. I know that he is currently, you know, he is in boots on both feet and doing some upper body stuff and their physical therapy involved and we'll see. So, you know, whether he's tradable this

Starting point is 00:25:37 winter. It certainly is harder. It's more complicated with that going on. But I think that either way, I would expect them to look for some sort of external option for a right-handed bat, especially if they are committed to Yvonne Herrera catching again next season. If Herrera is not part of the outfield picture, which for the moment seems to be the case, then they really will have to go get a right-handed bat to play the outfield. Yeah, and I kind of was going through some of the upcoming possible free agents for because I was looking for the same thing. I'm like, all right, we need a righty. What do we got out here? Man, it's slim pickings out there on the free agent market for that stuff. Are there any names that come off the top of your head that you think of that

Starting point is 00:26:21 might be something the Cardinals will be interested in? No, I mean, I think you would expect them to be sort of in the same neighborhood with the free agent hitters as they would with the free agent pitchers. You know, again, the other thing that I would say is I think there is some chance that you could look to swap a left-handed bat for a right-handed bat. that right, find somebody who has the same problem going the other direction and maybe that problem kind of resolves itself. But, you know, there aren't a lot of really obvious internal candidates to be a part of that. So there's going to have to be a search for somebody outside. Yeah. Brennan Donovan also had some surgery this offseason. His name's been floating around

Starting point is 00:26:58 and trade rumors. Numerous teams obviously interested in him for all the reasons why we love him in St. Louis. What do you think it would take to land someone like Donnie from the cardinals and how interested are they actually in moving him or is it just kind of like well of course our phone lines are always open but you know we're not actively shopping it yeah i mean i think that there is a reasonable chance that they have a better than a reasonable chance that they are serious about looking for trades for him this winter i think there are a couple things that point to that um you can start with the contractual stuff right there are two more years of team control here they went to an arbitration hearing with him last year, a thing that I will continue to point out.

Starting point is 00:27:38 And granted, it changes because there are different folks in charge now. But the Cardinals have never, like never in the history of the arbitration system, gone to a hearing with a player and then retained that player into their free agency. That has never happened. Michael Waka went to a hearing and they took him to free agency. That's the closest they've gone. But everybody besides Waka has an out of the organization before their free agency after going. to a hearing, right? Like even Ryan Helsley got traded the summer before he's, right? So these are, like, historically, once they go to a hearing, those guys are on their way out of town relatively

Starting point is 00:28:12 quickly. That's relevant to Newfar as well. So, you know, just something to keep in mind in terms of what the contractual stuff looks like. The other thing, too, is that J.J. Weatherholt is going to need a position in St. Louis. If he's not going to need it on March 26th, he's going to need it by April 15th, probably, right, whatever the date is going to end up being. So, you know, can Weatherholt play third, he can. I don't know that the Cardinals view that as his best fit long term. There is, of course, still an incumbent third basement technically on the board as well, which is part of that conversation as well. I think pretty clearly the place where Weatherholt fits best for them is second base, at least for now. And if that is the case, then, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:55 I think it's pretty clear that Donovan is the guy who gets dislodge there. Like the Cardinals have said that Al-Marmole has said that they feel like Donovan benefited a lot for from not bouncing around nearly as much this year. He has a couple of times referred to him as their second baseman, right? Not a guy who he could put somewhere else. And so I think that clearly is where the Cardinals view. And I think that's correct. I think clearly his best fit on the field is as a second baseman.

Starting point is 00:29:17 That being the case, then he is the guy who probably has to get moved to make room for weatherholt, especially given, you know, where the value is going to be at. Because he is going to be a guy who carries a lot of value because he's a diverse player. You can kind of move around the lineup. He's a guy who can play whatever five positions, six maybe, you know, with relative competency. It's not terribly far off from when they traded Tommy Edmund other than the injury that Donovan is coming off of is not going to have maybe quite the same residual concern that Edmund's injury did. I believe also that that Donovan has one more year of control now than Edmund had at a time when he was traded. and, you know, Donovan has a little bit of a better pedigree.

Starting point is 00:30:02 He has, you know, he's got a gold glove. He's an all-starred this year. He's showing a little more pop. I think these are all reasons that he's a guy who you would see, you know, a lot, a lot that a team could get out of from him. And so that makes him, to me, a pretty appealing candidate for the Cardinals as a trade piece. Yeah, understandable. You brought up the catching position.

Starting point is 00:30:23 Let's hit that real quick. You know, Yvonne Herrera, recovering from surgery as well as another one. But he's going to get another shot at playing behind the dish and see if he can pull this off. You've also got Pedro Pahas. You've got Jimmy Crooks, who we saw at the end of last year. Bernal, Leonardo Bernal is a guy that, if I'm correct, has to be placed on the 40 man this year as well. So there you go.

Starting point is 00:30:47 You got four catchers that are going to be on the 40 man at the same time. What do you think is the likelihood of one of them getting moved just to clear out some space? I think it's possible. I think that as you go down the list, it becomes more difficult to identify who that guy would be because of the way, like, you would assume that it would not be Pahas primarily because he is for lack of better,

Starting point is 00:31:13 like he's the most stable catcher that you have on the roster, right? Clearly the guy that they would trust to just get back there and catch the pitchers every day. And that's going to be the case sort of regardless of how the other pieces shake out. Now, you could make an argument that maybe Crooks supplants some of that. You could certainly make an argument that like a Crooks-Herrera combo is a really lethal offensive combination.

Starting point is 00:31:34 And that Crocs, even if Crocs is the more defensively minded of that pairing, that that is good enough. That's entire, that that's fair. I don't know that Paez has like a whole lot of value around the league, right? I think about him in terms of the way you think about a guy like Martin Maldonado, for instance, who was sort of, and Paez is not an elite defensive. catcher. He's a good defensive catcher and a really good teammate and a guy who is really good at working with pitchers in ways that don't necessarily always quantify that well. But that also

Starting point is 00:32:04 makes him harder to trade because if things don't quantify that well, hard to make an argument for it, right? I say all that to say that I would expect that on opening day, the catching tandem is probably just Herrera and Pahas. That's the simplest way to look at it and that's going to be the easiest way to go about it. We'll see if Crooks does enough to make to make a change there. And we'll see how playing time kind of doles out in Memphis because I don't think the Cardinals necessarily want to go a full season with Crooks and Bernal splitting, catching time at Memphis. That maybe he's not the most productive for either of them. I also would not be, like, the Cardinals technically still have team control over Joel Pozo as well.

Starting point is 00:32:41 I would expect him to be outright at here in the coming weeks, and it would not shock me if he were to re-sign a minor league deal that lines him up to be kind of the veteran guy at Memphis, too. And, you know, we've seen Memphis carry three catchers. that's entirely possible. But I don't know that the best situation necessarily is one that involves Bernal and Crooks both at Memphis for a full year next year. But unless Crooks is in the big leagues, that might be hard to avoid. Yeah. Speaking of catchers, real quick, Yadie Molina, is he on this staff next year? Yes or no? He is not. I have not been expecting that to be the case. I know that there were like cryptic Instagram post.

Starting point is 00:33:23 I didn't really ever take that seriously. Katie Wu had a story this morning in which she reported that Yadir Molina is not expected to be part of the coaching staff that drives everything that I have heard as well. I, you know, does he show up in St. Louis at some point in a full-time capacity? I suppose that it's possible. I think that it's going to be interesting to see how much foothold he has and the organization has, with him moving forward, not because there were any sort of hurt feelings there, but just because there's a different boss in charge now. And, you know, things have changed. And over the last couple of years, he has had kind of a mostly no-show job that turned into a full-time no-show job,

Starting point is 00:34:05 which that, look, there were family situations that get it, but all the same. That happened. I think there are people in the organization who did not super appreciate kind of the leave of absence bit that happened at the end of the 2022 season. I think that that left a couple of hurt feelings and I think that, you know, they just haven't been able to figure out what a full-time role looks like that he is comfortable with. Maybe that changes at the end of this year after his son graduates from high school in the spring and gets drafted or doesn't and then kind of figures out what his future looks like. But no, I would expect him to be a much more sporadic presence kind of the way he's been over the last couple of seasons. All righty. So there you go.

Starting point is 00:34:44 Make sure you guys are following Jeff at B&D.com, Belleville News, Democrat. Appreciate you stopping by and hanging out with us, as always, Jeff, answering all the questions. You are the best. And thank you guys for making Lockdown Cardinals. Your first listen every day. If you haven't already, give us a follow on X at L.O. underscore Cardinals at a JD Sports Radio, TikTok, and Instagram and Lockdown Cardinals, like, subscribe on YouTube and help the channel in your love for the Cardinals grow. Jeff, as always, thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Daytime.

Starting point is 00:35:10 All right. Thank you guys for being a part of Lockdown Cardinals. We'll see you next time. See you, bud.

Locked On Cardinals - Daily Podcast On The St. Louis Cardinals - St. Louis Cardinals OFFSEASON Overhaul Begins as Arenado and Gray TRADE Talks Heat Up

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